Allen Iverson Retires

[StoopTroup]

Seems like he didn't have much choice. I didn't care for the guy...but it seems like he might not have had much choice.

[badger]

NP speculated that Iverson would have had more options to play if he lowered his asking price... not just in monetary value, but other demands.

In Memphis, he said he didn't like coming off the bench, he didn't like being part of a rebuilding project and such.

If Iverson was willing to work with a franchise and fit a role at a lower salary, he'd probably have a home right now.

But, he's at a stage in his career where he's probably made enough money to go on his terms, or retire.

[King Crimson]

i was never a big fan of AI in general but i got to like him some when he played for the Nuggets....since i watch them a couple times a week (even though the NBA is really boring to me).

if it were me, i'd sign in Italy somewhere and spend all my time drinking Barolo and banging Italian super-models.

[StoopTroup]

i was never a big fan of AI in general but i got to like him some when he played for the Nuggets....since i watch them a couple times a week (even though the NBA is really boring to me).

if it were me, i'd sign in Italy somewhere and spend all my time drinking Barolo and banging Italian super-models.

If we lose Saturday...I might retire to Italy. That does sounds pretty good.....lol

[StoopTroup]

I've given this some more thought...

Whether or not your a fan of AI...what is ashame is that The Game got in the way of him continueing to play...not an injury or that he'd lost the love of the game.

Whether it's his fault or the GM's or the Leagues...it's ashame that his career is affected.

I watch NBA basketball for great plays. I don't have a favorite Team or favorite player....

I just love the game.

[misplacedsooner]

he pulled a favre and looks like he changed his mind, he will be meeting with john thompson soon to discuss his future and possibly larry brown.

[Collier11]

Well Thompson and Brown asked for him to meet with them, they dont want him to retire out of frustration. I think they are going to convey to him that a young rebuilding team is not the way to go obviously, he needs to go to a contender and be ok with coming off the bench for 25 min a game.

Its a shame to me because I love AI and how hard he always played, unfortunately sometimes you have to take a lesser role and either be happy with it or prove that you should be starting

[badger]

AI has always played selfishly, which isn't always a bad thing. MJ played selfishly his entire career and he has six championship rings.

The problem now is that AI might not just be playing selfishly, but thinking selfishly too. He wants the minutes he's always had, the shots he's always had and to be the star he's always been... and that option isn't there.

John Thompson has a way of getting his point across. I think Larry Brown and AI have always had a reluctant sense of respect for each other, so I think AI will listen to him too. Look for AI to give into some of his selfish desires in an effort to get a championship that (I think) every player covets more than playing time and notoriety.

[Collier11]

I think the overriding point will be this, Allen Iverson is one of the greatest gaurds in NBA history, he doesnt want his end legacy to be that he quit just cus he couldnt be a starter anymore

[JLEW1818]

...


CANCER!!!


:D

[misplacedsooner]

iverson is one of the elite players ever...anyone who denies his skill and his passion for the game knows nothing about hoops. he isnt the player he was but at his age he is still better than most guards in the league. he isnt a guy who has made all the right moves off the court but i believe he is truly a good guy who could care less what the public thinks.

[the_ouskull]

If "I f*cking told you so" was a sundae, Iverson's "retirement" would be the nuts. When he comes back out of this "retirement," it'll be the cherry.

He was a gamer, no doubt. One of the best to ever play. But he was not a player, and he was not a winner. The only time he ever even appeared to be a winner, in 2001, his defensive-minded team beat their way through a weak East. Even THAT team was built around Iverson scoring 30, and everybody else playing tight defense, and chasing down A.I.'s misses.

And spare me any, "he deserves to retire on his own terms" crap. That is EXACTLY what he's doing! He's "retiring" because he's not willing to accept the minutes he's being offered by the teams that are offering them, for the price they're offering them. If he was willing to play significantly reduced minutes for a Cleveland, Boston, or San Antonio, he could pull a ring out of his *ss this season, and then retire a champion.

Instead, he's going out exactly the way he's always played... On his own terms.

the_ouskull

[badger]

Now now Skullcandy, I didn't say that he deserved to retire on his own terms, just said that he COULD retire on his own terms.

What does he deserve? Debatable.

[misplacedsooner]

id love to see him admit to himself that he is older and not the player he was and go to a team and help where he could...he could really help a good team be great. imagine what he could bring a young team such as the thunder coming off the bench and helping out westbrook and harden to learn the game. its hard for a former superstar to come off the bench or to not be the man anymore....anyone remember a guy named jordan with washington???

[StoopTroup]

If "I f*cking told you so" was a sundae, Iverson's "retirement" would be the nuts. When he comes back out of this "retirement," it'll be the cherry.

He was a gamer, no doubt. One of the best to ever play. But he was not a player, and he was not a winner. The only time he ever even appeared to be a winner, in 2001, his defensive-minded team beat their way through a weak East. Even THAT team was built around Iverson scoring 30, and everybody else playing tight defense, and chasing down A.I.'s misses.

And spare me any, "he deserves to retire on his own terms" crap. That is EXACTLY what he's doing! He's "retiring" because he's not willing to accept the minutes he's being offered by the teams that are offering them, for the price they're offering them. If he was willing to play significantly reduced minutes for a Cleveland, Boston, or San Antonio, he could pull a ring out of his *ss this season, and then retire a champion.

Instead, he's going out exactly the way he's always played... On his own terms.

the_ouskull

That's your version....which is fine.

Again...the bickering isn't good for the NBA or Iverson. The more stuff like this I see....the less interested I get in it. I want to see the best on the court when I pay the bucks to see a game.

I went to a Mavericks/Suns game in Dallas one time. We basically went to see Barkley play as he was getting nearer to retirement himself. Sir Charles got thrown out of the game in the 1st quarter. I didn't go back to see a game for a long time after that.

If I was a GM or Owner...I see big money and crowds when I think of Iverson coming back. I think he knows it too. In the end...he probably doesn't need the money...but next year...I bet he gets it. Should he continue to score and pad his stats he'll still end up a HOF player no matter what fans think.

If he came to the Thunder...it would increase ticket sales but I have a feeling if he's going to take less money...he's going to come back to a team with a shot at a ring.

[Collier11]

He has made over $200 mil in his career, I think money isnt the issue, it is pride

[misplacedsooner]

i agree, i cant see him coming to the thunder either, sure he could help if he came with the right frame of mind...probably put us in as a playoff team but the man needs a ring. i keep thinking of what he could do with someone like nash getting him open looks and amare cleaning up any misses. trying to think if he has ever played with a pure point man?? eric snow does not count,lol.

[the_ouskull]

Memphis offered him more than anybody else. It's not that he can't still play. He can. But he's not "The Answer" any more, unless the question is: "Who is not The Answer?" That's his biggest problem. It's not financial, it's machismo. He refuses to believe that he's not the same player who won the league MVP back in 2001.

And it's not "my opinion" about Iverson. I've backed up every single thing I've ever said about the guy with stats, etc... It's not my fault, nor is it my opinion, but FACT, that you have chosen to ignore them.

If he were willing to accept fewer minutes, off of a bench, for less pay, he'd be the league right now, instead of launching a "retirement" via Stephen A. Smith as a knee-jerk, cry-baby reaction to the Knicks realizing at the last minute, what a cancer this guy is to anything, team-related. Respecting him (fearing?) and wanting to play with him aren't the same thing. You don't have to like someone to want to play with them.

I'd rather the Thunder have Mike Wilkes. At least he won't cry about coming off of the bench. Something made even worse by the fact that, he KNEW Memphis was signing him as a back-up, and then, after missing all of training camp ('cause we know how he feels about practice) with an injury, once the season starts, he's ready to hit the court at 100%. Just like that?

Yeah. No thanks.

So, because they want to protect their $3+ million investment, Memphis limits his minutes - keep in mind that Devin Harris, an All-Star, has been injured, and is just now starting to come back and play games for his WINLESS team, and they're bringing HIM off of the bench - and Iverson cries to anybody that will listen, stops showing up, attacks Memphis publicly, and then "retires."

Do you dislike the Thunder or something?

the_ouskull

[StoopTroup]

He has made over $200 mil in his career, I think money isnt the issue, it is pride

Or the chance at getting a ring so he can stick it to the man. :D

[misplacedsooner]

if that was to me ...no...i love the thunder....i would never want him in the state of mind he is in to be sure.....i was only stating that in the correct frame of mind how someone with his talent could help a young team on the verge of the playoffs. at this point i dont think he would do anything but hurt us but it sure would be nice to have 20-30 off the bench when one of our young guys isnt rolling well....dreams,lol

[ouleaf]

That's your version....which is fine.

Again...the bickering isn't good for the NBA or Iverson. The more stuff like this I see....the less interested I get in it. I want to see the best on the court when I pay the bucks to see a game.

I went to a Mavericks/Suns game in Dallas one time. We basically went to see Barkley play as he was getting nearer to retirement himself. Sir Charles got thrown out of the game in the 1st quarter. I didn't go back to see a game for a long time after that.

If I was a GM or Owner...I see big money and crowds when I think of Iverson coming back. I think he knows it too. In the end...he probably doesn't need the money...but next year...I bet he gets it. Should he continue to score and pad his stats he'll still end up a HOF player no matter what fans think.

If he came to the Thunder...it would increase ticket sales but I have a feeling if he's going to take less money...he's going to come back to a team with a shot at a ring.

^This^

First things first, Memphis sucks. They are awful. Who is their best player? Might as well be Steve the Pirate. If you bring in a guy like Iverson in the first place it is only a ploy by the team to put fans in the stands. Was Iverson going to make them a winner? No. Was he going to help develop the young "talent"? No. They brought him in as part of increasing ticket sales, plain and simple. Memphis should have just let him start, play the first 10 minutes and then sit him on the bench, and let him earn the ridiculous money you were paying him in the first place, while the team enjoyed increased ticket revenue.

I agree, Iverson is an all-time great and a 1st ballot HOF'er for sure, but at this point in his career he isn't going to be the 3rd or even 4th option on any contending team. I think his "retirement" was a smart move on his part in that he can cut ties with Memphis who was going nowhere with or without him, and just sit back and wait for a team that gets hit with injuries at his position or a contender where he can try and win a ring. Thus following the recent trend of former superstars jumping to a legit team and chasing a ring before they actually retire.

[the_ouskull]

if that was to me ...no...i love the thunder....i would never want him in the state of mind he is in to be sure.....i was only stating that in the correct frame of mind how someone with his talent could help a young team on the verge of the playoffs. at this point i dont think he would do anything but hurt us but it sure would be nice to have 20-30 off the bench when one of our young guys isnt rolling well....dreams,lol

The dream is yours if you think he's still a guy who can consistently put up 20-30 a night. But, you're not alone. He also shares that dream. It's why he's jobless.


First things first, Memphis sucks. They are awful. Who is their best player? Might as well be Steve the Pirate.

I don't know what kind of numbers Steve the Pirate has been putting up since his breakthrough rookie season, but Memphis' kitchen isn't exactly empty.

- Rudy Gay is putting up 21.5 points on 51% shooting, 6.8 boards, and almost 2 steals per game. He is a borderline All-Star.
- Zach Randolph is putting up his usual 20/10. He puts up All-Star numbers every year, but is admittedly another head case, who, unlike A.I., has been as quiet as the bird from Dumb and Dumber this year.
- O.J. Mayo averages 16.8 per game, with 4 boards to boot. He's going to be hitting that "next level" soon, too. once he stops taking so many threes and learns how to play better defense.
- Marc Gasol is at 15.2/10.5, is shooting 62.5%, which, if he finishes with it, would be a modern record, I believe, and is getting almost 2 blocks per game. He is more than just a borderline All-Star with the dearth of "true" center's in today's game, he was just an afterthought in the original trade that landed the Lakers Pau Gasol. Now, Marc is doing his best to make everybody forget about Pau.

Iverson was the fifth best player on that team, unless Steve the Pirate was also better.

If you bring in a guy like Iverson in the first place it is only a ploy by the team to put fans in the stands.

Absolutely. Something that he would have been able to do, solely through the power of his name, if not his game. The problem with him, is, he still thinks it's his game drawing all of those fans. Ha! Only the dumb ones...

Was Iverson going to make them a winner? No.

Has he ever made anybody a winner, himself included. No.

Was he going to help develop the young "talent"? No.

That's on him, though, not on the team. No, it's not "his job" to help the team develop talent, but as part of his contract, he IS obligated to do whatever he can to help the team win. If he sits down, shuts his mouth, and plays nice, the minutes come. He couldn't even do that. He couldn't shut his stupid f*cking mouth for one game.

I agree, Iverson is an all-time great and a 1st ballot HOF'er for sure

On what, exactly, do you base this? His shooting percentage? His assist/turnover ratio? His unselfish, team-first play?

Is he better than Isiah Thomas? Isiah didn't go in during his first eligible season, retiring after the 1993/1994 season, but not being inducted until 2000. What about Moses Malone? (I'll hear this argument. The Isiah one was a rhetorical question...)

..but at this point in his career he isn't going to be the 3rd or even 4th option on any contending team.

He could still be a 3rd option on a defensive-minded team (like the Spurs or the Cavs) or 1st option off of the bench for a number of teams. HE is the reason that he isn't. It's not the NBA's fault. It's not Larry Brown's fault... or the Grizzlies' coach either. It's Iverson's. He's not willing to accept that he is no longer "The Answer." I'm getting older too, man. It's a tough time to ask the right questions...

I think his "retirement" was a smart move on his part in that he can cut ties with Memphis who was going nowhere with or without him

Once again, HIS choice. Memphis need(s)ed ball handling and leadership, two things which, if his head weren't on corn-row lock up his *ss, Iverson could have provided. He could have gotten out running with a young, athletic team... but he's rather keep playing for himself, just like he's always done. And, he had already 100% completely cut ties with Memphis. He'd even paid back part of his contract already. The "retirement" was his way of throwing a tantrum after even the worthless Knicks decided he'd be too much trouble. Don't paint a turd by acting like he was making a "savvy business decision." He was throwing a tantrum. Go back and read the messages he posted. "Since nobody wants me..." Wah. Nobody wants you because you're too f*cking stupid to realize why nobody wants you, idiot.

and just sit back and wait for a team that gets hit with injuries at his position or a contender where he can try and win a ring. Thus following the recent trend of former superstars jumping to a legit team and chasing a ring before they actually retire.

Like Karl Malone, and Charles Barkley?

If you want to talk grown-up basketball with grown-ups, stay more well-read, please. I'd love to have a few NBA die-hards around the boards, but I can't reasonably be expected to change my game just because I'm currently surrounded by lesser talents. Sure, the board needs me to tone it down and invite more open-ended discussions as opposed to my usual education sessions, but, I can't. I'm the star. I don't need to change my posts for the betterment of the board. The board should change for me.

I mean, according to you, my logic is flawless, anyway...

the_ouskull

[misplacedsooner]

iverson of the board,lol
i wasnt saying or suggesting he could light up 20-30 every night like he used to, just saying if a starter was having a bad night, in foul trouble, or injured he could potentially step in and light it up occasionally. nothing more. to say he doesnt have a big game in him from time to time is just crazy.

[the_ouskull]

But that occasional big game would come at the expense of countless other games, not to mention team chemistry, and would run counter to any positive team building. But, in limited minutes, in a backup role, he could absolutely be an effective player. He's just not willing to accept that.

And a large part of what I'm writing isn't directed towards you. I agree with you in areas...

the_ouskull

[the_ouskull]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=iverson-091125

the_ouskull

[misplacedsooner]

exellent article. i suppose i keep hoping he will get it before it is too late to get it. i could see last year in detroit and even memphis where he was in denial...that he should and would walk in and be the man. if he could just accept that he isnt the man...that there is so much he could do to help a team....if he was willing, he could be a huge asset for a couple more years. contrary to belief the guy can run the point and pass the ball...will he? anybodies guess there, at this point i say no but he is capable of it. id love to see him get a reality check that goes to his heart from thompson. the guy is such a great player i hate to see him go out this way.

[the_ouskull]

John Thompson won't give him that reality check that he needs because John Thompson is an enabler for people like Iverson. He's already come out and said that, "Nobody in the league wants to guard A.I."

I think he means that nobody wants to play with him, or hire him, but whichever, J.T. Ya know?

If you hate to see him go out this way, then you haven't been following his career, or you're in complete denial about what you've been watching. How else did you think that this would end?

the_ouskull

[misplacedsooner]

moral to this for me i guess is i once had a dream to play in the league...i was cocky as anyone you could of ever met...left a jc after 1 1/2 years and went to birmingham to play in a summer league in front of alot of scouts and several league players that were either coming out of school or off injury. dom wilkins, barkley, ennis whatley and a gentleman who gave me my first reality check on the court...andrew toney...he lit me up and i could not stop him.
anyhow enough of that, the attitude ai has i used to play with also and in a way off the court too, people cater to you and turn you into a beast before you know it unless you have good guidance, which i didnt have and apparently ai never had either. i got wise to the situation of being full of myself but not before i ruined my dream. this is another reason i want ai to see the light and all the good he could do , his kind of talent shouldnt be wasted, it is truly one of a kind talent that we may never see again. sorry for rambling on in this but im probably the only one that feels for him even though he has done all this to himself or let himself be led.

[the_ouskull]

Andrew Toney gave a lot of people that same attitude check. If his feet hadn't started falling the f*ck off of him, he'd have gone down as one of the all-time great dagger-shooters.

And, no, you aren't the only one. I used to be Iverson's biggest supporter. He drug the NBA, kicking and screaming, into the hip-hop era, and I loved it. But, as his career progressed, he went from being Bubba Chuck, to Bubba Chuck-It-Up. His assist/turnover ratio started creeping down, and with it, his shooting percentage. Teams could no longer afford to build around him, so his teams stopped winning. And, when you're losing, a player like Iverson is a negative, not a positive.

I'd like to see him catch on somewhere, but I just don't see it at this point. His feelers are hurt, and he's going to take his ball and go home, now. And, if he DOES catch on somewhere, and keeps playing the way he has been, he is surely done, as nobody is desperate enough to sign him to anything other than the remainder of this season; especially after the Memphis debacle.

I hated when the Blazers picked up Ennis Whatley. I'm sure you can imagine the multitude of nicknames that my high school (at the time) *ss came up with for him.

the_ouskull

[misplacedsooner]

i agree totally, with his attitude he would be a hinderance to anyone. funny thing is at different times he has seemed like a really good guy, then back to his old self...split personality???,lol. until he humbles himself and passes the torch he will/ would be a liability to anyone.
so true on toney, i could never figure out how to guard him, getting up on him he would blow by you left or right so fast it was hard to react and laying off a step he got up higher on a jumper than anyone i ever played against and you couldnt get a hand in his face.

[the_ouskull]

Didn't he have one of those behind-the-head releases on his jumper too? Like, unless you're sitting on his back like Master Blaster from the Thunderdome, you couldn't have blocked, or even really affected, it? I know that Charles Barkley thought more highly of him than just about anybody else that he played with/against...

the_ouskull

[misplacedsooner]

nah, he had a real sweet, pure stroke, ball way above his head and flick of the wrist....maybe your thinking jamal wilks...now he had a funky behind the head shot...but i guess if it goes down keep shootin.

[JLEW1818]

back with the 76ers

lol.... i guess they think this will make them better

[badger]

Wow... a one year deal for the vet minimum with his original team.

[Salt City Sooner]

Philly lost their PG for a couple of months.

[misplacedsooner]

i bet this will make them better........and put some butts in seats too. he should start right away but it will be interesting to see what happens when their point comes back.

[the_ouskull]

Badg, let's be specific... a prorated one-year, non-guaranteed deal for the veteran's minimum.

Also, if anybody thinks that this is anything more than a P.R. move, they're crazy. Yes, with Lou Williams hurt, and his rookie backup Jrue Holliday spending most of his free time at "get a real f*cking name" classes, Iverson will be able to step right into some minutes.

...and do what, exactly? This is a young team, and A.I.'s made it clear that he's no mentor. This is an undisciplined team, and A.I. isn't the guy you want in there to help run an offensive system.

But, in my (humble - HA) opinion, nobody nailed it like Bob Ford from the Philly Inquirer:


"You wonder whether Allen Iverson realizes he's little more than a circus freak now. If he rejoins the Sixers, his name will be atop the sideshow, luring in the curious and the bored and the kind of people who slow to gawk at the wrecks along the highway. He is the bearded lady, the fish boy, the bear who chugs beer from the bottle. Welcome to the third act of Iverson's career. He can no longer lead a team to a championship. He can no longer be trusted to accept a complementary role on a contender. Now, he would merely sell tickets for a bad team. Look at that man down there, son. He used to be Allen Iverson."

Misplaced: I was thinking of Silk. But I could have sworn that Toney had some hitch with his shot, too. Maybe it was just that he jumped really ridiculously high on it? Whatever it was, he was a f*cking killer, though. Stupid, stupid feet... Lol.

the_ouskull

[badger]

I heard the Sixers averaged around 11k in attendance... this might help that number a little.

Then again, it's Philly. They can boo at their teams from anywhere. Who says they gotta attend the game in person?!

[Collier11]

They are 28th in attendance I believe and their biggest crowd was going to be for Memphis when Iverson was still with them, the guy is Loved in Philly, Loved. Its not like he can make them worse, they have lost 7 straight. All he can really do is help his career, at this point most people are like Skull and dont think he has anything left in the tank anyway.

[the_ouskull]

He can make them worse in the future, though, by getting in the way of developing talent for the sake of his own numbers, numbers which, as he enters the twilight of a ring-less career, mean more to him than ever.

At least Philly knows exactly what they're getting with him, even if they're as delusional about his abilities as he is at this point... and Philly is a great situation for him to land in. The fans will cut him some slack. The team actually NEEDS him, as opposed to him just moving merch. (By the way, if anybody has an Iverson Grizzlies jersey, I'd like it...) But the bottom line is the main reason for this signing as well.

It's a non-guaranteed, one-year deal for the veteran's minimum. THAT is what you're worth now, A.I. .. even in Philly. Maybe THAT will motivate him to start thinking more about his team than himself... but I doubt it.

Oh, and I found a great article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=Roundtable-Iverson-091202

the_ouskull