Mangino: "It's not over"

[King Barry's Back]

Kansas City Star blog:

Points of interest highlighted. Stoops/Snyder say no problems at OU & KSU. Quote-a-matic Leach gets another good quote in.

Mangino: "It's not over"

By Blair Kerkhoff - Posted on 23 November 2009

Embattled Kansas Coach Mark Mangino said don’t assume anything about his future.

“It hasn’t played out yet,” Mangino said on the Big 12 coaches teleconference Monday morning. “It’s not over.”

Mangino said he would have preferred the school’s investigation into his alleged abusive actions to have been conducted outside of the public realm.
“From that aspect you don’t like it,” Mangino said. “But you live with it. You keep coaching the kids and keep doing what you like doing.”

Asked if he had any communication with athletic director Lew Perkins last week, Mangino said “practically none. A social call from the athletic director last week for a few minutes.”

The guess here is that by social, Mangino meant something else.

Should there be more communication?

“I don’t know if there should be or shouldn’t be,” Mangino said. “You always like communication with everybody, with players, coaches, administrators, support staff, but I’m good, I’m fine, I’m working, my players are really focused.

“Your question perhaps should not be directed at me if you understand what I’m saying.”

Oklahoma Coach Bob Stoops said he there were no incidents with Mangino when served on the Sooners’ staff before taking the KU job for the 2002 season.

“He was very close with them, appreciated them, did everything that was appropriate,” Stoops said. “To comment on what is or what isn’t true, that isn’t for me to do.”

Kansas State coach Bill Snyder echoed the sentiments. Mangino was on Snyder's staff for much of the 1990s.

"That didn't happen to my knowledge," Snyder said when asked if there were any incidents. "Not a whole lot slips under the radar from that respect. He handled the players well."

Texas Tech Coach Mike Leach said Mangino "is in the middle of witch hunt," and mocked the situation. "The mean man told some player something he didn't want to hear. Well, there's a mean man in Lubbock who tells players what they don't want to hear. That's just part of it."

[olevetonahill]

Is Not the AD at KU starting to sound and act like the Neb AD a few years back ?

[sooner59]

Yeah. I think its just a bunch of players who were p****** and got mad or sad when someone said something to hurt their feelings. At the end of the day, you forget what was said an just realize that your coach wants to win as much as you, and let it be. That's how I was when I played.

Maybe Mangino crossed the line, I don't know, but this just seems odd.

[King Barry's Back]

Yeah. I think its just a bunch of players who were p****** and got mad or sad when someone said something to hurt their feelings. At the end of the day, you forget what was said an just realize that your coach wants to win as much as you, and let it be. That's how I was when I played.

Maybe Mangino crossed the line, I don't know, but this just seems odd.

Agree with you, and agree with olevet. Seems weird, not right.

I think that the AD, who seems to lack common sense, resents Mangino for personal reasons -- apparently he's tangled with national championship-winning Bill-freaking-Self -- and hopes to use "abuse" of players as an excuse to get rid of him.

That's what I think it is. If it was really concern over the "abuse," they would be doing this in private, not on the front page. I think Mangino has too many supporters for the AD to fire him, and the AD hopes to build up enough resentment that he will be allowed to drop the hammer.

Yeah, AD at Kansas -- Perkins, ex-AD at Nebraska -- Peterson. Seem mirror images of each other. I expect to see "ex" in front of Perkins's name in the next couple of years.

[AlbqSooner]

Some of those ex-players should have played for Bobby Proctor. They would realize that Mangino is a big ole cupcake.

I just hope that we see "ex" in front of Perkins name before we see it in front of Mangino's.

[King Barry's Back]

I just hope that we see "ex" in front of Perkins name before we see it in front of Mangino's.

Hear, hear. (or is that "here, here"; I'm never sure.)

[AlbqSooner]

I'm not sure either, but I THINK it's" Hear Here".

[MrJimBeam]

This all has to do with KU basketball being king in Lawrence. Remember the fights earlier this year? This is about steping on some blue basketball toes and an attempt to put Mangino in his place, which is behind basketball.

[TUSooner]

I'm not sure either, but I THINK it's" Hear Here".

It's "hear, hear" as in "hear him; listen to him."
According to the Oxford English Dictionary, it is "the regular form of cheering in the House of Commons." The phrase "hear him, hear him!" was used in Parliament since the late 1600s.

There, there.

[Breadburner]

Like I said...It's about money.....They want to get rid of him with out paying him.....

[OUinFLA]

It's "hear, hear" as in "hear him; listen to him."
According to the Oxford English Dictionary, it is "the regular form of cheering in the House of Commons." The phrase "hear him, hear him!" was used in Parliament since the late 1600s.

There, there.

They're there.



In the Oxford English Dictionary, I mean.

[TUSooner]

Like I said...It's about money.....They want to get rid of him with out paying him.....

I'm pretty sure it's a simple case of discrimination against Mangino for being (astonishingly) fat.

[TUSooner]

They're there.



In the Oxford English Dictionary, I mean.

13. a. The imperative hear!, now usually repeated, hear! hear! (formerly hear him! hear him!) is used as an exclamation to call attention to a speaker's words, and hence has become a general expression of approbation or ‘cheering’.

That there.

[badger]

The mean man told some player something he didn't want to hear. Well, there's a mean man in Lubbock who tells players what they don't want to hear. That's just part of it."

pretty much. mikey 4 teh win

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Leach is allsome

[King Barry's Back]

I actually hijacked my own thread with that "hear hear" business. :(

[King Barry's Back]

Like I said...It's about money.....They want to get rid of him with out paying him.....

I don't think so. A key question is, "Who do you mean by 'They'." Do you mean the whole KU administration is on board to do this? If so, the AD (w/ the university president) could handle all this very quietly, privately threaten Mangino with "termination with cause" (no money), and probably get Mangino to resign to avoid being fired and humiliated. (That scenario is now off the table as Mangino has already been humiliated.)

If they just wanted to get rid of him, the public witch hunt part wouldn't make sense.

I just think the AD doesn't like Mangino, maybe because Coach Mangino is an Oversized-American, maybe for some other reason. Therefore, the AD wants to fire him, but Mangino's past success has insulated him among the administration, donor base, etc, so the AD needs to undermine him publicly first.

I mean, it's speculation on my part, so you could be right. But all the papers say Mangino's buyout is only $600,000. And he's a public employee of the State of Kansas, so that should be a public record. It looks to me like it'll cost the school more than $600,000 to run down its reputation and possibly fight litigation.

Guess we'll see what happens.

[sooner n houston]

I can't belive football players are whinning about someone poking them in the chest! Are you kidding me?
When I was in high school, our coach not only poked us in the chest, he would grab our face mask and yank us around to where he wanted us top be. Slaps upside the helment were quite common, even an occasional kick in the pants wasn't unheard of.

[Widescreen]

The only thing that I've heard that seems wrong is the way he apparently brings up personal issues publicly to demean. That's not right. The whole poking someone in the chest thing is laughable. Come on. Well, unless he really put his weight behind it. ;)

[goingoneight]

They must be working the kids too hard at KU like we do here. They should go ahead and fire the only coach worth a damn in the BIG 12 North.

[StoopTroup]

I bet the AD sent someone in to talk to Mark...at the very least there was a desk between him and Mark with a tazer in the drawer.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

I think Mangino should file a discrimination lawsuit for the AD picking on him because he's calorically challenged.

[badger]

I can't belive football players are whinning about someone poking them in the chest! Are you kidding me?

This is what we were all joking about on another thread to begin with. Then, we saw reports on how Mangino's favorite word is "homies" and how he really pushed certain players' buttons.

However, I think we'd all be naive to think that no other coaches do and say the exact same things. One guy apparently complained that after his grandmother died and he went and got drunk and drove, Mangino called him on it and said "What a way to honor your late grandmother!" I honestly would say the same thing to a close friend if they did that... and I bet the message got through to the player, too.

[Sasakwa]

Is he trying to change that saying about the fat lady singing?

[Crucifax Autumn]

Leach rules!

[SoonerLB]

Perkins is a jerk, seems to not get along with the basketball coach either. The powers that be at KU need to man up and get rid of him. If they prefer to listen to a few p****** whine, then I guess they can let Perkins take KU athletics back to the cellar. Mangino and Self have done, and continue to do, a lot for that university, can't say as Perkins has done much but try to take credit for their achievements.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

This thread title made me think it was about what Mangino would say to the Golden Corral buffet workers trying to close

[jaux]

Mangino could make Paul Bunyon shivver and cry.

[prrriiide]

Some of those ex-players should have played for Bobby Proctor. They would realize that Mangino is a big ole cupcake.

^^^THIS^^^

When The Pride used to be behind the team on the east side, I can remember hearing Proctor climbing up player's a$$es from 20 rows up in the stands.

Some artists use oils, some use watercolors, some use notes. Proctor used foul invective. I think his degree was from the Sgt. Hartmann School of Motivation.

And actually, "Hear, Hear" is correct, as in "Hear ye, Hear ye."

[swardboy]

"It's Not Over"....hey, that would be a great motto for the rest of our season!






Queer, queer

[Sooner04]

LEW PERKINS:
http://cjonline.com/files/editorial/images/morris/topeka/web/46546_web_new091809perkins.jpg

UNCLE FESTER:
http://www.freewebs.com/willywill3/Uncle%20Fester.jpg

[King Barry's Back]

"It's Not Over"....hey, that would be a great motto for the rest of our season!

How about "It's (still) not over, though we all wish it would end!":O

And I thought it was "Here, here," like "Look here, look here"

But clearly others seem to have some documentation, so in the future I will go with good ol' "Hear hear"

[badger]

Another quote from Mikey for the win:


"Heaven forbid somebody should ask a guy to pay attention and focus in for the sake of all his teammates and coaches and everyone else. We'll there's different ways to ask a guy to do that, and sometimes, after you've asked him a number of times, you raise the bar."

Link (http://www.sportingnews.com/college-football/article/2009-11-24/what-we-learned-mike-leach-entertains-again)

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Some of those ex-players should have played for Bobby Proctor. They would realize that Mangino is a big ole cupcake.

I just hope that we see "ex" in front of Perkins name before we see it in front of Mangino's.
Heh! Instead of poking, Proctor would have shoved his hand into their chest and pulled out their beating heart for them to see while making a point.

And the KU AD is a doosh! or is that dOUsh?

[SicEmBaylor]

This whole thing reminds me of the Patton slapping incident(s).

[Scott D]

This all has to do with KU basketball being king in Lawrence. Remember the fights earlier this year? This is about steping on some blue basketball toes and an attempt to put Mangino in his place, which is behind basketball.

actually it isn't.....Perkins would get rid of Self if he could find a reason to as well. It's more of the new AD making power plays to get rid of established coaches to replace them with his hand picked guys.

Like it or not, believe the accusations or not. Mangino is gone after Saturday, Perkins is already sending out feelers to potential replacements and has been since last weekend.

[SicEmBaylor]

If you want to get rid of a coach then that's one thing, but to publicly humiliate and tarnish a guy's reputation in the process is simply unconscionable.

[badger]

He has other Big 12 coaches support and his current players too.

Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4686374)

Granted, I wouldn't expect them to trash their coach during the season, but it's worth something.

[Leroy Lizard]

However, I think we'd all be naive to think that no other coaches do and say the exact same things.

Tom Landry: Staubach, you throw another interception and I am sending you back to play with your homies!

[TUSooner]

Tom Landry: Staubach, you throw another interception and I am sending you back to play with your homies!

How many Staubach's on KU?

[TUSooner]

He has other Big 12 coaches support and his current players too.

Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4686374)

Granted, I wouldn't expect them to trash their coach during the season, but it's worth something.

Good. I think, unless the AD is a wuss, that Mangino will survive this. He may be chastened, but I think most people will realize that sometimes coaches are just kinda a-holes. I think Leach is his best defender; another reason to like Mike.

[bluedogok]

actually it isn't.....Perkins would get rid of Self if he could find a reason to as well. It's more of the new AD making power plays to get rid of established coaches to replace them with his hand picked guys.
Nebraska found out how well that worked out....

[King Barry's Back]

This is what we were all joking about on another thread to begin with. Then, we saw reports on how Mangino's favorite word is "homies" and how he really pushed certain players' buttons.

However, I think we'd all be naive to think that no other coaches do and say the exact same things. One guy apparently complained that after his grandmother died and he went and got drunk and drove, Mangino called him on it and said "What a way to honor your late grandmother!" I honestly would say the same thing to a close friend if they did that... and I bet the message got through to the player, too.

Badger,

You always have a pretty sensible outlook on things, except for the Packers, of course. :D

I am not going to defend the use of "homies," etc. I wish Mangino didn't coach that way.

On the other hand, we all know, if KU had won 2 more games last year and two more games this year, this issue would not have come up.

Even so, saying "homies" and being mean to your players is not generally a firing offense. Maybe in the long term, but if KU was REALLY angry at him over the "abuse" of players, then they would order him to counselling, and document everything, and give him a year or so to straighten up and toe the line. (How long did it take Indiana to get rid of Bob Knight?)

They wouldn't do a witch hunt. I think the homie stuff is just a cover for firing him for something else, and probably something that it is illegal to fire him for. Maybe for being a Plus-sized American, maybe something else.

Look at this way. What if Mangino was a racial minority? And what if the new AD just didn't care for "those people," and didn't want them on the college campus. He could fire anybody for being one of "those people," so he find something else to put up a legal smokescreen and make litigation more difficult.

That's what I think has happened here. I think the AD has been waiting for Mangino to lose his temper, have if flare into public a little bit, and then he would turn it into a firing offense.

Seems to me the tempo of the press is turning in favor of Mangino. The coach has been swinging in the wind for over a week, and he's starting to look like the victim.

Again, the AD is an amateur at managing public perceptions and I think this is turning against him.

Mangino might not survive, but I think the AD will be out (w/i a couple of years) either way.

For Mangino, I think the question goes to how much public does he have, and if he can exploit his victimhood (and beating Mizzou and going bowling wouldn't hurt) he could get a swelling tide in his favor.

We'll see.

[King Barry's Back]

Found this on a link listed in the thread above --

Mangino's contract was extended after he took the team to a 12-1 record in 2007 and runs through 2012. If fired without cause, the school could be on the hook for about $6.6 million. If the university builds a case and is able to fire him for cause, he could be gone with nothing.



OK, everything I had been reading was that KU was on the hook for $600 THOUSAND, not $6 MILLION.

That's significant coin.

Clear that Perkins wants to fire him. We'll see if it happens.

Fingers crossed for Coach Mangino.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I wish I woulda poked a kid in the chest and called him a future alcoholic like his daddy. I could retire and be an alchyholic daddy.

[badger]

King -

I don't use the word "homies" ...like, ever. I think it's a really stupid word.

Based on everything that's come out, I think that his players - not the quitters that complain now - his CURRENT players all have his back.

I think we can all agree that on sports teams, in the workplace, etc., that there is nothing more annoying about a leader than one that doesn't make everyone do his or her job. That makes the rest of us work harder and the team overall suffer... and the slacker gets away with it and gets the same reward that the rest of the team does! Irritating beyond all hell.

So, Mangino calling these guys out for not reaching their potential, for goofing off, for drunk driving, etc., I would say would have to be something that Division 1 athletes would support, even if he uses a stupid word like "homies" to get his message across.

Oh, and pokes chests to get his message across too. Can't forget the chest pokeage.

[Scott D]

Nebraska found out how well that worked out....

I personally at this point can't wait for Perkins to turn his full attention to getting rid of Self. He'll damage the credibility of Kansas to the point where the regents will move quickly to replace him.

[badger]

I personally at this point can't wait for Perkins to turn his full attention to getting rid of Self. He'll damage the credibility of Kansas to the point where the regents will move quickly to replace him.

Other things he can do to infuriate KU:

a) Replace the beloved Jayhawk with Roboduck:
http://www.thecollectorsgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/roboduck.jpg
b) Rename "The Phog" to "The Fog," because institutes of higher education should not misspell simple words.
c) Retroactively not recognize any national championships or bowl appearances from before his time as athletic director in an effort to not dwell on the past.
d) Change the official mascot to the sunflower:
http://costumezone.com/images/products/a/aj84a.gif
e) Change the school song to "I'm a Sun! Sun! Sun! Sunflower!"
f) Decline all future NCAA tourney bids in favor of the NIT.
g) Decline all future bowl bids in favor of spending the offseason chastising Mangino's ability to poke chests... ummmm, I mean COACH.

[boomermagic]

This thread title made me think it was about what Mangino would say to the Golden Corral buffet workers trying to close




:D

[King Barry's Back]

I personally at this point can't wait for Perkins to turn his full attention to getting rid of Self. He'll damage the credibility of Kansas to the point where the regents will move quickly to replace him.

ding ding ding. We have a winner. That's exactly right. Hope it happens real soon, too.

[royalfan5]

Setting aside the abuse stuff, how many coaches in America could survive losing 7 consecutive games is a sorry Big XII North with the most accomplished QB in your schools history? Hell, even Dan Hawkins managed to pull off two wins trying to start his son at QB.

[King Barry's Back]

Setting aside the abuse stuff, how many coaches in America could survive losing 7 consecutive games is a sorry Big XII North with the most accomplished QB in your schools history? Hell, even Dan Hawkins managed to pull off two wins trying to start his son at QB.

That's a fair point, but I would point out that he's still their winningest coach ever, and the only reason that QB is so celebrated is because Mark Mangino is the coach. And, he's coaching at KU, where a .500 season is pretty much what they are playing for.

That said, if he turned in a similar season next year and they fired him for not winning, fair enough. He didn't capitalize on the Orange Bowl and they made a change. If they decided to fire him THIS YEAR for losing too much, I don't think that would be a good decision, but again -- fair enough. It's their school and their ath dept. Give him his money and send him on his way.

What I object to is publicly tar and feathering the poor guy, ruining his reputation and making complicating his prospects to coach again -- even at the assistant level. That should not be done in public.

And then, to top it off, they are clearly trying to skip out w/o paying him what they promised (buy out), and that's just not right.

[Scott D]

there is no buyout, his contract is 100% guaranteed. So if they just up and fired him they owe him every penny of that contract. Hence, why Perkins is instituting this very public witch hunt.

[StoopTroup]

How much has Mangino ate already?