off -season strength and conditioning & injuries

[S008NER]

We all the several key injuries we have had over the past few seasons, is it possible these injuries were the result of just bad luck or the failure of the strength & conditioning program /S&T coaches? Bill Walsh wrote that teams that are riddled with injuries often have a poor off-season training regiment. Is strength and conditioning possibly an issue with the football program in regards to injuries or was it just bad luck?

[OKLA21FAN]

some of these answers might help you
http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137411

[Collier11]

Schmidt is widely considered one of the best in the biz so im not sure

[rawlingsHOH]

I really doubt OU radically changed their condition program after the 2008 season.

[EnragedOUfan]

Schmidt is widely considered one of the best in the biz so im not sure

I agree except that he is the best in the business when it comes to getting players injured.

[picasso]

Schmidt is widely considered one of the best in the biz so im not sure

By who exactly?

[Collier11]

by anyone and everyone who knows about college sports, sports training, etc...and im not talking fans, im talking people actually involved

[picasso]

by anyone and everyone who knows about college sports, sports training, etc...and im not talking fans, im talking people actually involved

Wow, okay. Quite a statement.

I haven't exactly heard glowing reports from a former player. But I'm also not going to blame all of these injuries on Schmidt. I mean, he was here in '99 and 2000.

[StoopTroup]

Everyone is searching for the right guy to hang all of this on.

Till Stoops decides to make a change...it just isn't going to happen no matter how much you wish yourself to be right about the scenarios you paint.

Bob is so tight about Team Information and I think this really plays into feeding the Monster. We weren't happy losing BCS Bowl Games...who could be? Now lets continue to badger the Coaching Staff again until we get what we want. I just can go through it again...I just have decided not to be a party to it this time.

EnragedOUfan is a perfect example.

He has no proof that Smiddy is the reasn that kids are injured and he comes right out on an OU message board acting like he knows what's wrong.

Seriously...You got neg'd by me.

[Collier11]

Wow, okay. Quite a statement.

I haven't exactly heard glowing reports from a former player. But I'm also not going to blame all of these injuries on Schmidt. I mean, he was here in '99 and 2000.

Ive heard many players as well as people around college football talk about how he is one of the best


Everyone is searching for the right guy to hang all of this on.

Till Stoops decides to make a change...it just isn't going to happen no matter how much you wish yourself to be right about the scenarios you paint.

Bob is so tight about Team Information and I think this really plays into feeding the Monster. We weren't happy losing BCS Bowl Games...who could be? Now lets continue to badger the Coaching Staff again until we get what we want. I just can go through it again...I just have decided not to be a party to it this time.

EnragedOUfan is a perfect example.

He has no proof that Smiddy is the reasn that kids are injured and he comes right out on an OU message board acting like he knows what's wrong.

Seriously...You got neg'd by me.

Exactly

[Crucifax Autumn]

I think if you look at AD's size and vertical leap when he got here and when he left you can tell that our conditioning is top notch.

[Collier11]

look at Mark Clayton, look at all the guys we have put in the NFL

[ndpruitt03]

Conditioning doesn't cause injuries. Injuries are a luck thing. If you have too little conditioning you can probably have more injuries.

[SoonerMavrick25]

I agree with StoopTroup.... It’s sad that some really unfortunate injuries have happened this year, and now it's due to our (poor) strength and conditioning coach. Look its football; things happen, but to blame someone like Schimmdy for the way the season has turned out is completely asinine.

[rawlingsHOH]

The complaints use to be that the NFL conditioning was bad, because all of OU's guys were getting hurt once they got to the league, but were never hurt here under Schmidty.

The good old days!

Fans are ridiculous.

[Tear Down This Wall]

We all the several key injuries we have had over the past few seasons, is it possible these injuries were the result of just bad luck or the failure of the strength & conditioning program /S&T coaches? Bill Walsh wrote that teams that are riddled with injuries often have a poor off-season training regiment. Is strength and conditioning possibly an issue with the football program in regards to injuries or was it just bad luck?

Dude I've been posting this question for years. And, people have pooh-poohed me.

But, with all of the linemen that have been run off combined with the multiple players who've had multiple knees injuries here and once they hit the pros out of our program, I've alway thought it was fair ask.

However, there is always that faction here that says, "Bob is always right." "Don't question Schmidt." "Those who leave are just p*ssies." And, the ever popular, "Every school goes through these things."

To me, there's a balance based on simple physics in what you have certain types of players do in the weight room. And, there's a limit on what a body will take...especially 320+ pound linemen who already stress their lower bodies with the amount of weight they carry even before they strap it on for deep squats.

[ndpruitt03]

Dude I've been posting this question for years. And, people have pooh-poohed me.

But, with all of the linemen that have been run off combined with the multiple players who've had multiple knees injuries here and once they hit the pros out of our program, I've alway thought it was fair ask.

However, there is always that faction here that says, "Bob is always right." "Don't question Schmidt." "Those who leave are just p*ssies." And, the ever popular, "Every school goes through these things."

To me, there's a balance based on simple physics in what you have certain types of players do in the weight room. And, there's a limit on what a body will take...especially 320+ pound linemen who already stress their lower bodies with the amount of weight they carry even before they strap it on for deep squats.

Our defensive linemen are big about 6-3 300 and something lbs each. Why are they not getting hurt? We've pretty much played both our DTs about 98% of the time this year.

[Collier11]

90% of injuries are freak or bad luck IMO, the other 10% are because of poor conditioning

Thats just my humble opinion though

[ndpruitt03]

90% of injuries are freak or bad luck IMO, the other 10% are because of poor conditioning

Thats just my humble opinion though

And poor conditioning to me would mean that there wasn't enough conditioning going on. Most of the people that complain about Schmidt say he's doing too much conditioning, which is stupid.

[Collier11]

so in that case it would point to the player being lazy when the coaches arent looking

[Crucifax Autumn]

Obviously all that muscle these guys put on is snapping their bones like little twigs...

[BoulderSooner79]

Over training is a real hazard (it's not conditioning any more at that point). I've seen many posters claim the OU program crosses the line into over training, but I have no data to go by. Training is pretty much a science these days and there are definitive ways to detect over training - I assume OU stays up on the latest data. But there is art as well as the science because individuals have a broad spectrum of responses to the exact same training program. Also, the mental aspect is important because some guys will push themselves too hard and must be throttled back while others don't know their limits and must be pushed pretty hard. The coach must be a personal trainer to many as well as master motivator.

[Poli Sci]

We all the several key injuries we have had over the past few seasons, is it possible these injuries were the result of just bad luck or the failure of the strength & conditioning program /S&T coaches? Bill Walsh wrote that teams that are riddled with injuries often have a poor off-season training regiment. Is strength and conditioning possibly an issue with the football program in regards to injuries or was it just bad luck?

Your are in the worng place if you are looking to blame our coaches for the problems with OU.

Nobody on here is willing to blame the coaching staff. OU does not have the intensity it once did, it's because Mike Stoops left. We can't win a BCS bowl, it's not Stoops fault. The 2009 season is turning out the way it is because of freakishly high amount of injuries its not the coaches fault. We can't win on the road, not Stoops fault. The 2009 offense can't score, it's not the coaches it's the WR's and QB's fault. The 2009 O-line sucks, not the coaches fault. I think you see the pattern.

At some point as Sooner fans we have to put the blame where it belongs, on the coaches. I lived through Blake and Smell-like-bourbon, I am well aware of what this program could become if Stoops leaves. I do not want him to leave. With that said, I am not going to settle for mediocrity because we are all afraid Stoops will get his feelings hurt and go somewhere else. The are called coaches not advisors.

When the team does not perform it is the coaches fault. If you do not want to blame the coaches when times are bad then you can't give credit to the coaches when times are good. The 2000 NC was not because of coaching, it was because the players performed above their talent level and they avoided injury. If coaching has nothing to do with the bad seasons then by the same respect it has nothing to do with the good seasons.

Sorry, I have been coming to this board for years. I normally don't post very much but I just wanted to get my two cents out there. Go ahead and fire away at me.

[Collier11]

Over training is a real hazard (it's not conditioning any more at that point). I've seen many posters claim the OU program crosses the line into over training, but I have no data to go by. Training is pretty much a science these days and there are definitive ways to detect over training - I assume OU stays up on the latest data. But there is art as well as the science because individuals have a broad spectrum of responses to the exact same training program. Also, the mental aspect is important because some guys will push themselves too hard and must be throttled back while others don't know their limits and must be pushed pretty hard. The coach must be a personal trainer to many as well as master motivator.

have you ever heard an ex player say anything negative about the training program cus I havent, its all been more than positive

[Collier11]

Mike Stoops doesnt have sh*t to do with it, if you think it does you are clueless. He left 6 fuggin years ago and we have played in 2 natl title games and won several conf titles since then.

[ndpruitt03]

have you ever heard an ex player say anything negative about the training program cus I havent, its all been more than positive

I think Malcolm Kelly complained about our pro day but that's about as close as you can get.

[Collier11]

yep and he went to a fast track and ran a slow time anyway which should go to show two things, our coaches can turn slow guys into superstars in college and we need to work on speed training more, lol

[BoulderSooner79]

have you ever heard an ex player say anything negative about the training program cus I havent, its all been more than positive

As I said, I have no data or any reason to believe we over train. I was just responding to the remark that you can't over-condition and that is not true. Weight training causes micro tears in muscle fiber that heals up stronger than before. Training too often or too many reps doesn't let the healing cycle complete. There are similar processes involved with cardio training. But all this stuff is well known by training coaches.

[Collier11]

Of course you can and you can also **** off people and even with all the ones we have run off supposedly not one guy has ever said a bad word about Schmidt.

[Stealth]

I fyou look at the individual injuries we've had, I don't see how you can attribute them to anything but chance.

Wort - contact injury in practice
Gresham - non-contact stretching in practice (he had also had stability issues since high school)
Bradford - shoulder slammed into the turf
Broyles - fractured shoulder blade (contact injury in a game)
Jones - fractured heel
Habern - broken fibula

You get the idea. Gresham's injury MIGHT be attributable to some sort of training regimen, but since he had issues with the same thing since H.S., I think it's more likely just a freak accident that affected a weak area for him. If we were having a bunch of soft tissue injuries from people making cuts or during blocking, maybe it could be training, but I don't see it here.

[OUmd]

I think if you look at AD's size and vertical leap when he got here and when he left you can tell that our conditioning is top notch.

But look at the difference in injuries between AD in college and AD now? Everyone called AD "injury prone", but he has been overall pretty healthy in the league playing against BIGGER competition.

I do think conditioning is contributing to our injuries.

[Breadburner]

A losing season really brings the ****nuts out of the woodwork.......

[S008NER]

Your are in the worng place if you are looking to blame our coaches for the problems with OU.

Nobody on here is willing to blame the coaching staff. OU does not have the intensity it once did, it's because Mike Stoops left. We can't win a BCS bowl, it's not Stoops fault. The 2009 season is turning out the way it is because of freakishly high amount of injuries its not the coaches fault. We can't win on the road, not Stoops fault. The 2009 offense can't score, it's not the coaches it's the WR's and QB's fault. The 2009 O-line sucks, not the coaches fault. I think you see the pattern.

At some point as Sooner fans we have to put the blame where it belongs, on the coaches. I lived through Blake and Smell-like-bourbon, I am well aware of what this program could become if Stoops leaves. I do not want him to leave. With that said, I am not going to settle for mediocrity because we are all afraid Stoops will get his feelings hurt and go somewhere else. The are called coaches not advisors.

When the team does not perform it is the coaches fault. If you do not want to blame the coaches when times are bad then you can't give credit to the coaches when times are good. The 2000 NC was not because of coaching, it was because the players performed above their talent level and they avoided injury. If coaching has nothing to do with the bad seasons then by the same respect it has nothing to do with the good seasons.

Sorry, I have been coming to this board for years. I normally don't post very much but I just wanted to get my two cents out there. Go ahead and fire away at me.

Go back and read my post very carefully. I did not come to any conclusion about what is causing the injuries; I just asked a question to get different opinions. It could entirely be just a case of bad luck.

[Scott D]

like TDTW has said, there have been people that have questioned not so much the results...but rather the methods that Jerry Schmidt uses. As for people who have spoken poorly about him, one of the Ferguson brothers who at one time posted on this board had some very not glowing things to say about Jerry Schmidt.

I don't question the positive results he's had during his time here (Duke Robinson), but the many times that there has been word of certain types of favoritism used by him smacks of creating weak links where there shouldn't be.

[Collier11]

Punters dont even train the same I dont think, they have no right to bitch

[adoniijahsooner]

Overtraining is more dangerous than undertraining.

[Collier11]

eh, about the same

[picasso]

I just heard from a former player that the OU conditioning program doesn't always make some guys better. It just wears them out.
One of these players had a pro trainer who said the OU team was a step slower against USC in '04 because in his opinion they had been overworked.

Just sayin.:texan:

[Collier11]

I dont think we were a step slower against usc, they just made plays, we made mistakes and it spiraled. We marched down the field and score with easy, several of their TDs their receiver just made a great play with a DB right on him, just sayin

[picasso]

I dont think we were a step slower against usc, they just made plays, we made mistakes and it spiraled. We marched down the field and score with easy, several of their TDs their receiver just made a great play with a DB right on him, just sayin

Oh we were slower. Go back and watch how we were smoked at the LOS.

We didn't score easily on that first drive either. JW, pulled some 3rd and long passes out of his butt.

[Tear Down This Wall]

Our defensive linemen are big about 6-3 300 and something lbs each. Why are they not getting hurt? We've pretty much played both our DTs about 98% of the time this year.

Should I ask DeMarcus Granger about his back or Austin English about his knees?

[starclassic tama]

Wow, okay. Quite a statement.

I haven't exactly heard glowing reports from a former player. But I'm also not going to blame all of these injuries on Schmidt. I mean, he was here in '99 and 2000.

jevon kearse came to OU to work out during the summer not that long ago. so he thinks something of schmidt.

[Collier11]

Should I ask DeMarcus Granger about his back or Austin English about his knees?

Granger has had a back issue since HS, English was hurt during a game, try again

[Collier11]

Oh we were slower. Go back and watch how we were smoked at the LOS.

We didn't score easily on that first drive either. JW, pulled some 3rd and long passes out of his butt.

and all of this comes off as sour grapes, I realize that people start looking for stuff to gripe about when things are going bad but its not like weve been bad for 3 or 4 yrs now like Michigan or Notre dame, good grief people

[ndpruitt03]

Should I ask DeMarcus Granger about his back or Austin English about his knees?

Granger hasn't played since early last year I think. English is about 240 lbs and a DE. There's a difference. The earlier post was about how big linemen get hurt because of our conditioning, they get hurt because they are unlucky or don't work hard enough as posted by someone else earlier.

[EnragedOUfan]

Everyone is searching for the right guy to hang all of this on.

Till Stoops decides to make a change...it just isn't going to happen no matter how much you wish yourself to be right about the scenarios you paint.

Bob is so tight about Team Information and I think this really plays into feeding the Monster. We weren't happy losing BCS Bowl Games...who could be? Now lets continue to badger the Coaching Staff again until we get what we want. I just can go through it again...I just have decided not to be a party to it this time.

EnragedOUfan is a perfect example.

He has no proof that Smiddy is the reasn that kids are injured and he comes right out on an OU message board acting like he knows what's wrong.

Seriously...You got neg'd by me.

Who cares.......Because I sure don't. I got negged. Oh man. You see, I read this site everyday because it produces the absolute best information that I've found for any OU site are most members on here are very knowledgeable in regards to OU sports in general. However, I don't post ten times per day so I'm lacking the number of posts that many of you have. But if there is anything that I do notice about this site, its that I've never seen more OU fans arguing with each other in my life. Seriously. Everyone has opinions. Heck, even sometimes, when I read about other people's opinons, they will all of the sudden get blasted because they have an opinion. "He has no proof that Smiddy is the reasn that kids are injured and he comes right out on an OU message board acting like he knows what's wrong." No I don't. Just like no one has any proof that the coaches suck other than their opinions on the playcalling but the coaches are still criticized. Everyone has their opinion about OU football. I remember watching us drop like flies against the horns, player after player after player. As to dropping like flies, we've been droppling all season long. ACL's, hamstrings, its always the same. Yes, there is the possibility/probability that its bad luck. But I don't think it is, especially with the high amount of injuries that we've had. Not to mention, it seems that most of our players in the NFL are constantly dealing with injuries. Another thing that leads me to believe this is that being in the Army, I perform physical fitness everyday. If I were the commander and noticed that 10-15 guys in my company were dropping like flies, I would investigate. I would see what exercises are being performed. Being in the Army, I've noticed that over the years, certain particular exercises that we used to do are no longer authorized because they create the high risk for injury. It wouldn't surprise me one bit that a complacent fellow such as Schmidt is not knowingly doing the same thing. But thats just me...........BOOMER!

[olevetonahill]

Dude I've been posting this question for years. And, people have pooh-poohed me.

But, with all of the linemen that have been run off combined with the multiple players who've had multiple knees injuries here and once they hit the pros out of our program, I've alway thought it was fair ask.

However, there is always that faction here that says, "Bob is always right." "Don't question Schmidt." "Those who leave are just p*ssies." And, the ever popular, "Every school goes through these things."

To me, there's a balance based on simple physics in what you have certain types of players do in the weight room. And, there's a limit on what a body will take...especially 320+ pound linemen who already stress their lower bodies with the amount of weight they carry even before they strap it on for deep squats.

You are so Ignorant Im not sure why I bother to respond

But I will cause im an ******* like that

The SanC coach aint got a dayum thing to do with Torn Ligaments , Broken Bones and such :rolleyes:

[olevetonahill]

Your are in the worng place if you are looking to blame our coaches for the problems with OU.

Nobody on here is willing to blame the coaching staff. OU does not have the intensity it once did, it's because Mike Stoops left. We can't win a BCS bowl, it's not Stoops fault. The 2009 season is turning out the way it is because of freakishly high amount of injuries its not the coaches fault. We can't win on the road, not Stoops fault. The 2009 offense can't score, it's not the coaches it's the WR's and QB's fault. The 2009 O-line sucks, not the coaches fault. I think you see the pattern.

At some point as Sooner fans we have to put the blame where it belongs, on the coaches. I lived through Blake and Smell-like-bourbon, I am well aware of what this program could become if Stoops leaves. I do not want him to leave. With that said, I am not going to settle for mediocrity because we are all afraid Stoops will get his feelings hurt and go somewhere else. The are called coaches not advisors.

When the team does not perform it is the coaches fault. If you do not want to blame the coaches when times are bad then you can't give credit to the coaches when times are good. The 2000 NC was not because of coaching, it was because the players performed above their talent level and they avoided injury. If coaching has nothing to do with the bad seasons then by the same respect it has nothing to do with the good seasons.

Sorry, I have been coming to this board for years. I normally don't post very much but I just wanted to get my two cents out there. Go ahead and fire away at me.

I aint sure whos the bigger dip ****
You or TDTW :eek:

[Leroy Lizard]

If I were the commander and noticed that 10-15 guys in my company were dropping like flies, I would investigate. I would see what exercises are being performed. Being in the Army, I've noticed that over the years, certain particular exercises that we used to do are no longer authorized because they create the high risk for injury. It wouldn't surprise me one bit that a complacent fellow such as Schmidt is not knowingly doing the same thing.

Schmidt has been an assistant coach for how long? 20 years? Hasn't he coached at Florida and Notre Dame?

Yeah, I'm sure Schmidt is behind the times when it comes to strength and conditioning. After all, what would he know?

[adoniijahsooner]

I remember last year during interviews at the Orange Bowl, Scmid said that the guys were going to lift weights that week. I thought that was a little strange considering they were so close to the game. I know in track and field which also relies on explosion and speed, the closer we got the championships the less we would do in order to keep our legs fresh and lively.

[soonerhubs]

I blame it on soda pop consumption. (Whether it's too much or not enough? I'll leave that for the experts to decide.)

*Runs away with a diet Mountain Dew in hand.*

;)

[rawlingsHOH]

But look at the difference in injuries between AD in college and AD now? Everyone called AD "injury prone", but he has been overall pretty healthy in the league playing against BIGGER competition.

I do think conditioning is contributing to our injuries.
You REALLY wanna play that game?

Dan Cody, Dusty Dvoracek, Rocky Calmus, Tommie Harris, Andre Woolfolk, Teddy Lehman please stand up.

[StoopTroup]

Wonder where AD got his workouts?

[Collier11]

I remember last year during interviews at the Orange Bowl, Scmid said that the guys were going to lift weights that week. I thought that was a little strange considering they were so close to the game. I know in track and field which also relies on explosion and speed, the closer we got the championships the less we would do in order to keep our legs fresh and lively.

Football players always lift weights during game week, just not the same as during the summer or spring

[achiro]

I aint sure whos the bigger dip ****
You or TDTW :eek:

Hey olevet, when was the last time you worked out? :D

[achiro]

Dan Cody, Dusty Dvoracek, Rocky Calmus, Tommie Harris, Andre Woolfolk, Teddy Lehman please stand up.

Weren't most of them pretty much injured going into camps?

[Collier11]

Stoops has put over 40 guys into the NFL, Lehman, Calmus, Woolfolk, Cody, Dvoracek, were the only ones that were consistently injured if my memory serves? Correct me if im wrong

[rawlingsHOH]

Stoops has put over 40 guys into the NFL, Lehman, Calmus, Woolfolk, Cody, Dvoracek, were the only ones that were consistently injured if my memory serves? Correct me if im wrong

The point is, if somebody wants to blame Schmidt for AD's 'OU injuries' (which is totally assinine).

Then you better credit Schmidt for keeping all of the above healthy, when the NFL couldn't do the same.

[Collier11]

Im with ya, just making the point to those who say all of OUs guys go to the NFL and get hurt cus that aint true either

[Crucifax Autumn]

It's frigin' football. People get hurt. If it was such a pansy-azzed game that that wasn't a possibility I wouldn't be watching...I'd just watch little kids play patty-cake and hopscotch and ****.

[picasso]

and all of this comes off as sour grapes, I realize that people start looking for stuff to gripe about when things are going bad but its not like weve been bad for 3 or 4 yrs now like Michigan or Notre dame, good grief people

Sour grapes towards whom? I've gotten over that game.

[Collier11]

Im talking about this thread and all of these threads which are searching for someone to blame, not directed at you bro

[King Barry's Back]

Your are in the worng place if you are looking to blame our coaches for the problems with OU.

Nobody on here is willing to blame the coaching staff. OU does not have the intensity it once did, it's because Mike Stoops left. We can't win a BCS bowl, it's not Stoops fault. The 2009 season is turning out the way it is because of freakishly high amount of injuries its not the coaches fault. We can't win on the road, not Stoops fault. The 2009 offense can't score, it's not the coaches it's the WR's and QB's fault. The 2009 O-line sucks, not the coaches fault. I think you see the pattern.

At some point as Sooner fans we have to put the blame where it belongs, on the coaches. I lived through Blake and Smell-like-bourbon, I am well aware of what this program could become if Stoops leaves. I do not want him to leave. With that said, I am not going to settle for mediocrity because we are all afraid Stoops will get his feelings hurt and go somewhere else. The are called coaches not advisors.

When the team does not perform it is the coaches fault. If you do not want to blame the coaches when times are bad then you can't give credit to the coaches when times are good. The 2000 NC was not because of coaching, it was because the players performed above their talent level and they avoided injury. If coaching has nothing to do with the bad seasons then by the same respect it has nothing to do with the good seasons.

Sorry, I have been coming to this board for years. I normally don't post very much but I just wanted to get my two cents out there. Go ahead and fire away at me.

I think you are confusing a couple of things.

It is retarded to criticize the coaching after a 12-2 Big XII championship season because they couldn't beat Florida in Florida.

On the other hand, it is retarded NOT to criticize the head coach that goes from 2 losses to 5+ losses in only one year.

Something is going on here, it isn't good, and the coaching staff isn't figuring it out.

I'm willing to concede the O line troubles are due to injury, because some weeks I wondered if we'd be able to round up 5 or 6 of 'em for the game. We are just real thin there. On the other hand, why don't we have enough linemen? Why do so many player appear unready? I mean, even the truest of true freshman has had almost an entire season to mature at this point.

Very frustrating.

[Collier11]

On the other hand, it is retarded NOT to criticize the head coach that goes from 2 losses to 5+ losses in only one year.

Something is going on here, it isn't good, and the coaching staff isn't figuring it out.

Nothing is going on that you cant readily see, we have lost over 40 games to injury this year including 6 or 7 starters

I'm willing to concede the O line troubles are due to injury, because some weeks I wondered if we'd be able to round up 5 or 6 of 'em for the game. We are just real thin there. On the other hand, why don't we have enough linemen? Why do so many player appear unready? I mean, even the truest of true freshman has had almost an entire season to mature at this point.

Very frustrating.


According to Bob there are two issues with the O-line

1) The fact that we have had to use so many different lineups due to injury, there has never been any continuity

2) Maybe some of the guys they recruited as big time recruits arent as good as we thought

[rawlingsHOH]

2) Maybe some of the guys they recruited as big time recruits arent as good as we thought
Stephen Good was the #1 player in Texas, and one of the best tackle prospects in the nation. I could see from day one he'd never be a LT.

I am surprised he's struggling so much as a guard, though. What he has going for him, he's a freshman. Next year expect a much better player.

[Scott D]

vet, strength training can in fact negatively impact ligaments and tendons.

I think the problem here might be the methods used, or how they go about things. Once upon a time the methods that Schmidt uses and has used were needed because there were a lot of out of shape players here from the lack of training that appeared to happen under the Blake regime.

I'm more curious as to why we once upon a time used to whip texas' *** on both lines for 60 minutes. And since 2005 they've been whipping our asses on those same lines. We used to ridicule their S&C program, mainly because of the comments of Roy "Yeah I'm afraid to go over the middle, that's why Detroit was happy to get rid of me to Jerry Jones" Williams. Maybe there's something to their S&C program that is being done differently that is working. Maybe instead of sticking with their "perfect" methods, our S&C people need to be looking at other ways that other schools are training their players in an effort to help them improve and stay healthy. Maybe, there's something else they can do that results in retention not desertion. Maybe just maybe there's another method they can use that doesn't render 25% of our OL recruits as unable to play football again.

[Collier11]

none of us even know the methods being used so how could any of us claim to know if they are too strenuous, not strenuous enough, too out of date, too risky, etc?

[Scott D]

That's like saying "I'm not a mechanic, but this strange noise my car is making isn't anything to worry about."

[Collier11]

If this happened every year I would agree, this has been a freak deal. Now I also believe that if Schmidt or Stoops thinks it is anything to do with the workouts they will adjust them, they arent dumb

[adoniijahsooner]

One difference from college to the NFL is that pro athletes normally have their pwn nutritionist and personal trainers, so everything is customized for the player. To be fair I have heard certain players say they are given special instructions from the coaches regarding their training, such as J. Nelson who had to gain weight and Reynolds who loss weight.

[Scott D]

If this happened every year I would agree, this has been a freak deal. Now I also believe that if Schmidt or Stoops thinks it is anything to do with the workouts they will adjust them, they arent dumb

career ending injury and transfers have been a regular deal. I'll agree that the injury plague this season is freakish, but the rest of the problem has been consistent for nearly a decade. eventually (like this year), the lack of depth comes back to bite in the *** hardcore.

[Leroy Lizard]

That's like saying "I'm not a mechanic, but this strange noise my car is making isn't anything to worry about."

No, it's more like: "My mechanic is such a goof. I have had two flat tires in the last week. I think he is tightening the thingies too much."

[Collier11]

career ending injury and transfers have been a regular deal. I'll agree that the injury plague this season is freakish, but the rest of the problem has been consistent for nearly a decade. eventually (like this year), the lack of depth comes back to bite in the *** hardcore.

what career ending injuries have we had, ever? Other than maybe Grangers back and that was fawked up before he got to OU

[Scott D]

Curtis Bailey and Jesse White for starters.

[tulsaoilerfan]

none of us even know the methods being used so how could any of us claim to know if they are too strenuous, not strenuous enough, too out of date, too risky, etc?

we can't, but neither can any of us say that what they do is working either; Scott brings up a good point about Texas; we used to OWN the 4th quarter against them, but the last 2 years that has been reversed and it does make you wonder what has changed for them

[Crucifax Autumn]

They started lifting weights. Pay tention!

[boomerborn79]

They started lifting weights. Pay tention!

And eating wheaties:eek:

[Collier11]

Curtis Bailey and Jesse White for starters.

OK, wasnt Whites some deginerative spine or neck issue. Regardless, thats two out of about 1100 players so far

[Curly Bill]

I know at least one guy pretty high up in the biz that is not a Schmiddy fan.

Just sayin...

...and no, I'm not gonna tell you who it is, so you can believe me or not.

[Collier11]

who cares if he isnt liked, alot of SnC coaches arent necessarily liked, the question is does he do a good job. I have never heard otherwise, as a matter of fact he has been honored for being one of the more innovative SnC coaches in the nation

[tulsaoilerfan]

They started lifting weights. Pay tention!

Sorry :O

[Curly Bill]

Yup, Schmiddy's the best, just like all our staff.

Happy now?

Raises all around!

[Collier11]

We all know thats not how it goes but im not going to give in to blind criticism...it gets old, according to you and the other crazies on the board we need to get a whole new coaching staff and it is getting rediculous.

[Curly Bill]

We all know thats not how it goes but im not going to give in to blind criticism...it gets old, according to you and the other crazies on the board we need to get a whole new coaching staff and it is getting rediculous.

Naw dude I don't want to get rid of anybody. I mean we're just a few injuries from being the best team on the planet or something. I suspect that after we won the NC game this year we would have been invited to play the Super Bowl winner in a football king of the world match. Yup, we have everything pert near perfect except for the injury bug.

...an injury bug that Schmiddy, nor anyone else on the Sooner staff is in any way responsible for.

:D

[Collier11]

<shakes head>

[adoniijahsooner]

I know I have been stating for a few years now that DB's shouldnt be built like runningbacks and mini linebackers. I remember Marcus Walker looked small, quick, and agile, and a year later he comes out with a neck like Mike Tyson. Needless to say that he didnt perform as well as he did the year before.

[Scott D]

OK, wasnt Whites some deginerative spine or neck issue. Regardless, thats two out of about 1100 players so far

Those were just the first two that came to mind. There have been other players, but I don't have the immediate memory of them handy like Rhino would.

[Collier11]

My point is, there have been very few. Even if there have been 10 that still isnt that many considering the number of football players Stoops has had

[Collier11]

Don't expect Stoops to sacrifice assistants


By DAVE SITTLER World Sports Writer
Published: 11/25/2009 2:23 AM
Last Modified: 11/25/2009 4:31 AM


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Go to Dave Sittler's Blog
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NORMAN — As news trickled out of Kansas last week about coach Mark Mangino's troubles, it didn't take long for the wheels to start turning for some Oklahoma fans.

"Do you think (Bob) Stoops will get rid of (James) Patton and bring Mangino back to OU as the O-line coach?" a Sooner supporter asked in a text.

The questions and suggestions didn't stop there. Another inquiring mind wondered if Stoops might dump offensive coordinator Kevin Wilson and rehire his close friend and former O-coordinator, Chuck Long.

And so it goes these days at OU. One season you're an irreplaceable genius, the next you're a clueless bum.
A year ago, defensive coordinator Brent Venables was the target of these fickle agents of change. Until his unit's unexpected drop off in last Saturday's loss at Texas Tech, Venables was hailed as this season's savior — the only mind bright enough on the OU staff to save the struggling Sooners from total collapse.

Wilson and Patton have replaced Venables on the most-wanted list by those angry and frustrated fans who want heads to roll. Never mind that they were integral parts of a record-smashing offense that carried OU all the way to the 2008 BCS national title game.

Mangino, who was the O-coordinator when OU won the 2000 national crown, will

probably be looking for work shortly after KU's final game Saturday against Missouri. Witch-hunting KU officials seem hellbent on railroading Mangino out of Lawrence.

Long, who took over the offense when Mangino left for KU, is already available. After his contract forced him to sit out this season, Long recently reached a monetary settlement with those San Diego State officials who fired him last year.

So what are the chances Stoops will dump Wilson and Patton in hopes that Mangino and Long can help revitalize an OU program that enters Saturday's Bedlam game with Oklahoma State still fighting for a winning season?

Based on Stoops' track record at OU, I'd guess there is zero chance of any of that happening. Loyalty is big for the Sooners' head coach, who hasn't fired a single assistant in his 10-plus seasons.

Stoops seemed to indicate at his Tuesday press conference that he doesn't intend to start making scapegoats out his assistants, even though OU is 6-5 overall, 4-3 in the Big 12 and in serious jeopardy of having hated-rival OSU snap the Sooners' record 29-game home winning streak.

"I'm not a knee-jerk guy; I'm not going to overreact," Stoops said. "I'm always critical of what we're doing as coaches. I think there's some times where we've handled it better than other times.

"I also understand the handicap we've had to play with. In the end, there's a long track record of what we've done here and how it's been successful and our mode of operation and how we've done things."

There is also a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately attitude that's always prevalent amongst some members of the Sooner Nation. They don't care how many records you've set or how many players you've lost to injury. "Just win, baby," isn't a motto used exclusively by the Oakland Raiders.

In addition to loyalty and previous accomplishments, I don't think Stoops will sack anyone because he's a realist. He knows that even the most brilliant coaches can't win without players.

Why do you think Florida coach Urban Meyer broke down in tears this week when he discussed the seniors who are playing their final home game Saturday? An offensive mastermind, Meyer knows it's those seniors instead of his coaching wizardry that has the Gators on the verge of a third national title in four years.
You don't have to be a Sooner diehard to know OU's offense has been decimated by injuries. Yet, it's amazing how dumb Wilson and Patton became when they lost Heisman Trophy-winning quarterback Sam Bradford after he played less than two games.

Bradford's injury ignited a domino effect. It quickly spread to an already thin and inexperienced offensive line, and even seeped over to the defense in recent weeks, which might explain OU giving up 41 points to Texas Tech while only scoring 13.

If you think about it, Stoops has basically lost two classes of recruits. There were the seniors who moved on after last season, and then all the seniors who have been wiped out by injuries this year.

"Everything in life doesn't go your way," Stoops said. "This has been a very unusual year with the way it's all happened and you have to work through it.

"Some things are our fault as coaches. Some things are their fault as players. Other things (like injuries) are nobody's fault."

Stoops certainly isn't immune from criticism. Noting OU's 1-5 road record this season and the longest home winning streak in the nation, one pundit suggested that instead of "Big Game Bob," Stoops' new nickname should be "Home Game Bob."

Here's an idea: Fire Stoops and bring back John Blake and Howard Schnellenberger as co-head coaches.

That's no more ludicrous a suggestion than those short-memory critics who are demanding Stoops show Wilson and Patton the door.


By DAVE SITTLER World Sports Writer

[achiro]

Jeebus Collier, over react much? All I am saying is that if the coaching staff doesn't take a step back and at least look at whether or not S&C is part of the issue then they aren't earning their money. This is not a FIRE Smitty thing at all.

[Leroy Lizard]

All I am saying is that if the coaching staff doesn't take a step back and at least look at whether or not S&C is part of the issue then they aren't earning their money.

Criminy! Before you post a solution, think about it for a moment. Just a minute of analysis would have answered your question. After all, if S&C was really the problem, then we would have had numerous injuries last year. Therefore, it isn't the problem and it was silly to bring it up in the first place.

[Collier11]

Jeebus Collier, over react much? All I am saying is that if the coaching staff doesn't take a step back and at least look at whether or not S&C is part of the issue then they aren't earning their money. This is not a FIRE Smitty thing at all.

That post wasnt directed at you or any individual, just at the mass hysteria surrounding the program the last few weeks.

[Curly Bill]

That post wasnt directed at you or any individual, just at the mass hysteria surrounding the program the last few weeks.

I know right? Things are just great and peeps need to open their eyes and see that. :)

[Collier11]

No one has ever said that, you just want those of us who arent loonies to say that. ;)

[Scott D]

That post wasnt directed at you or any individual, just at the mass hysteria surrounding the program the last few weeks.

You should know I haven't been part of any mass hysteria around here at any time. What I keep looking at is a repeated cycle of lack of line depth year after year...there's a problem there that has existed for years, that problem just got exposed a hell of a lot more this year with all the injuries.

[Collier11]

I agree SD, I think my biggest issue is this, obviously in a lot of cases the 2nd string guys arent gonna be as good as the 1st stringers, they should still be good though, They do play for OU afterall

[OklahomaRed]

What is the statistics on top line O-Line recruits that Schmitty has ran off? I know it's a little off the injury discussion, but I agree with Scott. We have to look at the cause of why we are so thin at O-Line? Maybe we were just spoiled from our O-Line last year, but everyone can see we were to thin this year and there seemed to be limited adjustments made?

[Collier11]

Players are run off/quit on every single team, every single team, every single season

This is just further proof that some of you cant be please, we all want Stoops to run a clean an honorable program yet when he gets rid of kids who are lazy or have attitude issues, all of the sudden it is Schmidtys fault.

Do you not think about the fact that these kids getting ran off arent exactly ending up at top notch programs, there are issues there on the players side. Do you also not think that if our SnC coach was running off our best players just cus he was a prick that Stoops might step in during that situation, get a grip people

[Curly Bill]

Players are run off/quit on every single team, every single team, every single season

This is just further proof that some of you cant be please, we all want Stoops to run a clean an honorable program yet when he gets rid of kids who are lazy or have attitude issues, all of the sudden it is Schmidtys fault.

Do you not think about the fact that these kids getting ran off arent exactly ending up at top notch programs, there are issues there on the players side. Do you also not think that if our SnC coach was running off our best players just cus he was a prick that Stoops might step in during that situation, get a grip people

I don't know, is he one of Bob's golfing buddies? ;)

[cvsooner]

I'm of the opinion that most of the problem with the injuries to the linemen isn't the S & C program, but with the linemen themselves. Most linemen I've been around and known tend to be pretty much a lazy bunch. They aren't interested in working out, partly due to the fact that working out can get their weight down when they're trying to get their weight up, but also because they just want to show up and play. Most of 'em don't like to practice. They don't want to run, they don't like to lift weights, they don't like to watch their diets. Look at how many linemen just look like big slobs. Their size works against them...it is physically harder on them because they're so big. They do expend a lot of energy just being big...but Stoops wants them big, strong, talented and fast.

Stoops wants a particular type of pysical specimen for a lineman and to be built and trained a certain way. Schmitty isn't doing anything Stoops doesn't want him to do. The tough part is finding the kid who has the physical tools and the commitment and discipline to come out of the program the way Stoops wants him to be.

Getting a player to a certain level of size, strength, agility and speed is hard work and when you've got a kid who doesn't want to do what's expected of him...he leaves.

I suspect the exits some players have made is just due to the fact of a bad recruiting job...on either the part of the coaching staff who didn't make clear to the player what's going to be expected of them, or of the player who thinks he can do it but then shows up and decides it's not for him.

Sad but true.

[Collier11]

Schmitty, BV, KW, and the rest of the coaches aren't doing anything Stoops doesn't want them to do.

Adjusted for complete accuracy