Remember Terri Shiavo and all here who thought she should be allowed to die?

[85Sooner]

Want to reconsider what she possibly endured?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1230092/Rom-Houben-Patient-trapped-23-year-coma-conscious-along.html

[OUDoc]

Seriously?

[Collier11]

So what does this have to do with the other

[OUHOMER]

umm, I would hope that there was a difference in this case.
They did keep doing a study on this guy to determine if his brain active. I would have hoped they did the same for Terri.

[Mjcpr]

Only doleo could tell us for sure.

[85Sooner]

Evidently, up until three years ago they didn't have machines able to determine his status but his pictures reminded me of her. I bet three years ago his doctors thought he was as brain dead as shiavo's did. We will never know of course.

[King Barry's Back]

I think 85 Sooner's point is maybe that we don't really know what is really going on in an unconscious person's mind. Just a lot of guessing. Maybe Sciavo was really conscious in there, for all those years, and heard everyone plotting her death, and was screaming for help, for years on end, and then was starved to death.

What about it 85? Something like that?

[Viking Kitten]

Different kind of brain injury. Blunt trauma vs. oxygen deprivation.

My father was in the same situation as Terry Schiavo, specifically his brain was deprived of oxygen for more than 10 minutes after a heart attack. And like Terry Schiavo, he did not have a living will. We as a family made the decision to end life support, and I would make the same decision again. His brain was gone. Kaput. Bye bye. It was our right to make that decision, just like it was Terry Schiavo's husband's right (and not the Florida Legislature's). I personally made it out of love for my dad, because I don't think lying there unconsciously sh*tting himself with no hope of recovery is what he would have wanted for himself.

Quite frankly, if I was screaming "HELP ME!" in my head for 23 years, I would hope someone in my family would have the courtesy to put me out of my misery. In any case, it's a moot point because I have a living will directing them to do just that.

[85Sooner]

I think 85 Sooner's point is maybe that we don't really know what is really going on in an unconscious person's mind. Just a lot of guessing. Maybe Sciavo was really conscious in there, for all those years, and heard everyone plotting her death, and was screaming for help, for years on end, and then was starved to death.

What about it 85? Something like that?

exactly.

[yermom]

my biggest problem with all of that was the way they ended it. it's one thing if someone can't breathe or have their heart beat without a machine

letting someone slowly starve to death sounds pretty inhumane to me.

but it also wasn't just the Florida Legislature, it was her parents too, right? the husband seemed like he just wanted out so he could move on and get remarried

[Collier11]

once married it is the husbands rights as far as I understand the law?

[Viking Kitten]

Under Florida law, it was ultimately the husband's decision to make. The Legislature tried to change that at the 11th hour. That's when the courts stepped in.

The moral of the story? Fill out an Advance Directive now so your family won't have to make the decision. If somebody wants to live as a vegetable and drain their family's resources, they certainly have that option too.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Okay...In front of all these witnesses if I am in the condition this guy is in NOW and I don't specifically say "don't kill me", then kill me.

[Collier11]

unless im in your will, ill let LAS make that decision :D

[Crucifax Autumn]

unless im in your will, ill let LAS make that decision :D

I'll leave you my copy of "Earth in the Balance" and my Hillary Clinton blow up doll. :D

[Collier11]

Hillary, barf

[Crucifax Autumn]

I knew you'd get a boner!

[Collier11]

had one

[Crucifax Autumn]

Fraggle?

[Collier11]

he was looking when I got a boner

[Partial Qualifier]

Evidently, up until three years ago they didn't have machines able to determine his status but his pictures reminded me of her. I bet three years ago his doctors thought he was as brain dead as shiavo's did. We will never know of course.

I'm pretty sure hospitals have had the advanced brain activity monitors for more than a few years. As described to me by an ICU nurse, these monitors can tell if there's ANYTHING going on upstairs and with these devices, the difference between a coma and a neurologically "dead" brain are easy to spot.

Sorry to hear about your dad's passing, VK. That's sad to hear. :(

[Viking Kitten]

Thanks PQ.

It was the darndest thing... the heart attack was out of the blue, but just a few days before it happened, he and I had a long heart-to-heart talk. Resolved a few conflicts we had over the years, I got the chance to tell him how much I loved him and how much he meant to me, and he told me the same thing. That was the last time I ever talked to him, and I can't describe how incredibly lucky and blessed I feel that we got the chance to have that talk.

[yermom]

that's awful. and lucky. i wish i would have gotten a similar opportunity with my dad

[85Sooner]

I'm pretty sure hospitals have had the advanced brain activity monitors for more than a few years. As described to me by an ICU nurse, these monitors can tell if there's ANYTHING going on upstairs and with these devices, the difference between a coma and a neurologically "dead" brain are easy to spot.

Sorry to hear about your dad's passing, VK. That's sad to hear. :(


Sorry as well VK.

Not to change the subject but this was in the UK. Is it possible that they did not have this equipment and that the equipment was available in the US? That sure would be interesting to know given what the politicians are wanting to do with the healthcare of us common folk.

[StoopTroup]

I hope they can figure out what the right thing to do is for folks someday. It's a tough situation for the patient and the the families.

[lexsooner]

I thought brain scans when she was on life support and the autopsy of Shiavo revealed her brain tissue was mostly gone and the organ was largely a mass of fluid, so it made the decision easier for her husband. I suppose each case is different, but it is hard to imagine her having any consciousness or thought in that condition.

[Fraggle145]

he was looking when I got a boner

I was :confused:

[Crucifax Autumn]

You and boners seem to show up in the same place frequently.

[I Am Right]

Want to reconsider what she possibly endured?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1230092/Rom-Houben-Patient-trapped-23-year-coma-conscious-along.html

Wow, what about that 3 trimester baby.

[85Sooner]

I thought brain scans when she was on life support and the autopsy of Shiavo revealed her brain tissue was mostly gone and the organ was largely a mass of fluid, so it made the decision easier for her husband. I suppose each case is different, but it is hard to imagine her having any consciousness or thought in that condition.

Those autopsy results are hard to obtain before they are dead ;0)

[StoopTroup]

I've got a Co-Worker that's still in one.

http://prayforkevin.blogspot.com/

Rom Houben's case is mentioned in todays blog.

[85Sooner]

I've got a Co-Worker that's still in one.

http://prayforkevin.blogspot.com/

Rom Houben's case is mentioned in todays blog.

Prayers on the way for Kevin.

[SunnySooner]

Hubby and I updated our wills and medical directives before he left for the sandbox, it was really painless, if you haven't done it, it does give you some peace of mind. I will say this, you really need to have a lot of trust in your partner because you are putting your life in their hands, and I think that was part of the Schiavo controversy...there were reportedly some problems in the marriage before the coma, and her parents thought he just wanted to get rid of her.

[AlbqSooner]

I was living in Florida at the time the Terri Schiavo thing was going on. I was posting here as FlaSooner. I can tell you that, having personally seen the various brain MRI and CAT scans on Schiavo, she was NOT in the same condition as this individual. The MRI was black where the brain was. Totally atrophied. The legal wranglings in that case and the Florida legislature getting involved were despicable.

[lexsooner]

I was living in Florida at the time the Terri Schiavo thing was going on. I was posting here as FlaSooner. I can tell you that, having personally seen the various brain MRI and CAT scans on Schiavo, she was NOT in the same condition as this individual. The MRI was black where the brain was. Totally atrophied. The legal wranglings in that case and the Florida legislature getting involved were despicable.

Exactly. Schiavo's brain scan showed the brain was mostly black in the scan photo, meaning it was not brain matter anymore, just caverns filled with fluid as a matter of fact. Schiavo's case was nothing like the one described in this thread.