A program-defining loss

[the_sooners_abide]

Yesterday was bad. Really bad. I know, no s**t. IMO, this loss was on par with KSU 2003 and USC 2004. I don't think this program has regained its dominance from the early Stoops years following those two losses. We've lost that aura of invincibility we had from 2000-2002. This loss was just like those losses. OUr team was outplayed, outcoached, and basically quit by the 4th qtr. This one is going to be tough one to recover from, especially if there are no changes in the leadership. Stoops has been here 11 years. Maybe he doesn't have any motivational ploys that these guys haven't already heard. Am I calling for his head? Absolutely not. I believe he is a great coach and I wouldn't take anyone over him. I don't know where we go from here or how we pick up the pieces. Thats for the coaches and players to figure out. All I know is that this was the most disheartening loss since USC and that this Tech team was in no way comparable to USC.

[SeattleOUstudent]

program-defining? No. In 2 years, no one will remember this loss except the TV announcers when they tell us that OU has not won there since 2003 "including 2 years ago when...".

Frustrating? Yes.

[TXBOOMER]

I wouldn't say it was as bad as SUC. That was a good team. What is left of our team this year is terrible on the road. With that being said, Tech took a shat on OU yesterday. It was a pathetic game plan and effort on both sides of the ball. Injuries or not I hated the effort and lack of execution. I believe there will be two or three assistant changes. OL, TE and WR's coaches should be in danger. There has been no improvement in those positions throughout the year. We will see. We have no road game.

[the_sooners_abide]

Well, my point is that this loss is just as bad because of the fact that this Tech team is no where as good as USC was and they blew us out of the water.

[TXBOOMER]

Well, my point is that this loss is just as bad because of the fact that this Tech team is no where as good as USC was and they blew us out of the water.

I hear you Bro. But my point is this OU team would not make a pimple on the a$$ of that OU team.

[the_sooners_abide]

I wonder if Stoops would ever fire Patton or Norvell...probably not.

[TXBOOMER]

I wonder if Stoops would ever fire Patton or Norvell...probably not.

I am not going to hold my breath.

[SoonerShark]

The line was decimated by injury with the center going out yesterday. Our entire red zone playmakers, Bradford and Gresham were out. A paper-cut is painful. Too many cuts is fatal. The need to heal and grow is not a time to mourn, only to regroup.

[okiedokie]

I wonder if all this can be corrected by next season?hmmmm

[PLaw]

The Stoops era has been eternally scarred by TGOWWDNS. That was the "program defining loss" that exposed more than we may ever know about one Robert Stoops.

BOOMER

[fadada1]

the usc game (that never happened) was a worse loss.

[boomerborn79]

Im afraid that he may have lost this team. If he makes some changes and brings some new coaching talent in I think next year can still be a good one. If he doesn't I can see a Loyd Carr-michigan type scenerio. Great coach lost his team.

[boomerborn79]

Not to mention us OU fans have our feathers ruffled, thats not good for Stoops. Now ND might look more appealing to him. I hope he just gets rid of a few assit. and brings in some new excitment. Something we can all look forward to for next year and someone no one in the big twelve has tons of tape on.

[IronHorseSooner]

How do we think Josh would do as the OC? The same for Shipp as DC? Patton has not lived up to his storied last name. Instead, he's more like SGT Bilko. I tend to think that talent is there and it will be coming in, but they need development. That development has not been there. Like I said in another thread, Schmitty's performance needs to be seriously evaluated.

[TXBOOMER]

How do we think Josh would do as the OC? The same for Shipp as DC? Patton has not lived up to his storied last name. Instead, he's more like SGT Bilko. I tend to think that talent is there and it will be coming in, but they need development. That development has not been there. Like I said in another thread, Schmitty's performance needs to be seriously evaluated.

More like Private Pyle...:D

[batonrougesooner]

OU went to the NC game last year as well as won another of many B12 Chammpionships.

I don't think the coaches have forgotten how to coach.

It's a perfectly terrible combination of injuries, inexperience and bad luck.

They'll be back.

[IronHorseSooner]

More like Private Pyle...:D

No, that moniker already goes to Dexter Pittman.

[the_ouskull]

Im afraid that he may have lost this team. If he makes some changes and brings some new coaching talent in I think next year can still be a good one. If he doesn't I can see a Loyd Carr-michigan type scenerio. Great coach lost his team.

Did you just call Lloyd Carr a "great coach?" Really?

The guy had a 122-40 career record, a losing record in bowl games, was given his only championship in 1997 the same way Peyton Manning WASN'T given the Heisman that season. (Awesome!) And, he lost 6 of his last 7 to tOSU.

Jus' sayin'. I'm also not saying anything in regards to the similarities between his, and Bob Stoops', careers. (109-25, one championship, late struggles against his most heated rival - started 5-1, 1-4 since)

I mean, we're just talkin' here, right?

the_ouskull

[Blues1]

As Someone who has followed *Our Sooners* over a "Half of Century" I wish I could say "The Worst is over," - jmho - but I don't see it.

What ever the problems are...? Something needs to change asap - What that is..? - I couldn't say for sure , I only know I believe I saw this before in Bud's last 3 or 4 years " The fire went out" and everybody else ( Other Teams in the conference) caught up.. I'd like to hear what Barry has to say about The 2009 Sooners....I think we would hear some very interesting comments or some real facts....

In the meantime Gotta Keep Rockin'

[Soonerus]

Not program defining...

[BoulderSooner79]

Not program defining...

I agree. We are in the sorry situation that the game was meaningless win or lose (not counting the impact on our moods, of course). Now the season may well end up program defining and I'm not saying in a bad way - that is yet to be determined.

[King Barry's Back]

I agree. We are in the sorry situation that the game was meaningless win or lose (not counting the impact on our moods, of course). Now the season may well end up program defining and I'm not saying in a bad way - that is yet to be determined.

How can that be "program defining" in a good way? Beating Fla St for the crystal football is program defining in a good way. Beating TX five years in a row is program defining in a good way.

Getting blown out by a mediocre team is just humiliating. You maybe could argue it's not program defining, but if does define the program, it's definitely in a bad way.

[bluedogok]

Not program defining...
Not even close, this is a team decimated by injuries which has exposed the youth and inexperience of the team. Any team that goes through the type of injuries and losses through graduation/eligibility ending to key positions like this team has this season is going to struggle.

What is more disturbing to me is the mental attitude that the team has shown since the KSU loss in the CCG and the classic bully mentality they exhibit, if they get out to a fast start, they roll over people but if they struggle early, they seem to struggle the whole game...hit'em in the nose and they act like they are done. Last year they ran out on people so quick they overwhelmed them so it masked that mentality.

As far as coaching changes, I don't think anyone should be fired but I would like to see a shakeup on the staff. Right now this staff reminds me of Mack's staff of the early 2000's (just not as old), the shakeup they had seemed to be the best thing for them. I think in some ways this staff has become complacent, being in the same position for 10 years seems to have done that some of the staff. IIRC there were very few assistant coaches that stayed that long on Switzer's staff, Bobby Proctor is one of the few that I can think of. I think there needs to be an infusion of new blood every once in awhile on both sides of the ball.

[BoulderSooner79]

How can that be "program defining" in a good way? Beating Fla St for the crystal football is program defining in a good way. Beating TX five years in a row is program defining in a good way.

Getting blown out by a mediocre team is just humiliating. You maybe could argue it's not program defining, but if does define the program, it's definitely in a bad way.

It could be program defining in a good way if the resulting changes are long term good. Obviously, this season could be program defining in a bad way by many possible factors. (I hate to even mention recruiting, eek). We all hate hearing about the injuries, but without Sam and Jermaine this season was destined to be a rebuilding year on offense. A conference title or a major bowl was going to be highly unlikely. So the job of the coaching staff IMO, is to filter out the "perfect storm" factor of injuries and address issues not related to injuries. I think we can all agree those exist. So if a 9-3 year and a minor bowl would have swept problems under the rug vs. a 6-6 year and a minor-minor bowl that gets them addressed, then this season could be program defining in a good way. As I said, we don't know yet.

For the folks that think we could have won the conference and maybe even gotten to the title game with the offense we had this year, I wish I could live on your planet. I'll bet all the women are super models.

[FriscoTXsooner]

This has been a year that had high expectations with the exception of the O line, because of our QB, TE and Defense. However injuries seemed to destroy the energy of this team. It almost seemed that it was easier for players to use injuries to their teammates as excuses, instead of motivation to pick up their game.

The OC made bad decisions when they were crucial, if you notices Landy Jones during the hurry up, that's exactly what he did, he got caught up in the excitement, rushed, and threw interceptions. Instead we should have just allowed him to manage the game. With two solid RB's we should have used them within the abilities of the O-line, albeit lacking abilities.

I agree that there needs to be a shake up, but look deeper into this, is it just the coaches, or is our preparation for the season off? Perhaps we need to rethink what we are asking the players to do during the off season, I'm not advocating a easy off season or spring practice, but with this many injuries, is is just luck or something about our prep work, too much too little?

I think we will see one of our Coordinators depart this year to assume control of another program, which one, who knows, but there should be a couple of Big 12 teams that may be looking for a new coach.

The bottom line is everyone needs to take inventory of what they need to work on during the off system, and this team needs to come together in the spring or we are in serious trouble.

[bluedogok]

For the folks that think we could have won the conference and maybe even gotten to the title game with the offense we had this year, I wish I could live on your planet. I'll bet all the women are super models.
I concur....

I thought there was a possibility of three losses and that was before the injuries. The pre-season expectations of the national media and some fans was just ridiculous. With a ton of luck, they could have been in the CCG like in years past, but there was no such luck this season.

[ndpruitt03]

I concur....

I thought there was a possibility of three losses and that was before the injuries. The pre-season expectations of the national media and some fans was just ridiculous. With a ton of luck, they could have been in the CCG like in years past, but there was no such luck this season.

Unless you think Bob Stoops doesn't know how to coach and recruit that's a ridiculous statement. Give Urban Meyer or Pete Carroll etc this level of talent they NEVER in a million years lose 5 games with it and probably win 12 gaems with it

[budbarrybob]

[QUOTE=boomerborn79;2773176]Now ND might look more appealing to him. QUOTE]

that is just simply dumb.

[BoulderSooner79]

Unless you think Bob Stoops doesn't know how to coach and recruit that's a ridiculous statement. Give Urban Meyer or Pete Carroll etc this level of talent they NEVER in a million years lose 5 games with it and probably win 12 gaems with it

The year Tebow won the Heisman, UF lost 4 games including their bowl game because they were rebuilding on defense. How many would they have lost if Tebow had gotten hurt? Remember, it took a *Heisman* performance for them to lose only 4. Do you think we would have lost 5 had Sam had a Heisman year? Petey has a rebuilding defense this year and they got tagged for 47 and 55 points - the most in team history. They also lost to UW when their QB was hurt (sound familiar?) and UW is a *bad* team. You can argue about who has done a better job coaching, but all coaches are going to reflect the ability of the players they have available.

[Johnny Utah]

The year Tebow won the Heisman, UF lost 4 games including their bowl game because they were rebuilding on defense. How many would they have lost if Tebow had gotten hurt? Remember, it took a *Heisman* performance for them to lose only 4. Do you think we would have lost 5 had Sam had a Heisman year? Petey has a rebuilding defense this year and they got tagged for 47 and 55 points - the most in team history. They also lost to UW when their QB was hurt (sound familiar?) and UW is a *bad* team. You can argue about who has done a better job coaching, but all coaches are going to reflect the ability of the players they have available.

As "bad" as things seem I think you've drawn a very good analogy here ... there will be better days (seasons) however I also think that the coaches need to learn from their mistakes.

[rawlingsHOH]

Yesterday was bad. Really bad. I know, no s**t. IMO, this loss was on par with KSU 2003 and USC 2004. I don't think this program has regained its dominance from the early Stoops years following those two losses. We've lost that aura of invincibility we had from 2000-2002. This loss was just like those losses. OUr team was outplayed, outcoached, and basically quit by the 4th qtr. This one is going to be tough one to recover from, especially if there are no changes in the leadership. Stoops has been here 11 years. Maybe he doesn't have any motivational ploys that these guys haven't already heard. Am I calling for his head? Absolutely not. I believe he is a great coach and I wouldn't take anyone over him. I don't know where we go from here or how we pick up the pieces. Thats for the coaches and players to figure out. All I know is that this was the most disheartening loss since USC and that this Tech team was in no way comparable to USC.

LOL

I read the same exact thread after EVERY loss.... "worst loss EVAAAAAR!".

[PLaw]

OU went to the NC game last year as well as won another of many B12 Chammpionships.

I don't think the coaches have forgotten how to coach.

It's a perfectly terrible combination of injuries, inexperience, bad luck, and ineffective coaching.

They'll be back.

^^^^FIXED^^^^

Boomer

[BoulderSooner79]

As "bad" as things seem I think you've drawn a very good analogy here ... there will be better days (seasons) however I also think that the coaches need to learn from their mistakes.

No argument there. It's just that people forget that all programs suffered disappointing seasons under great coaches. The only time it has "never" happened is if the coach hasn't been around long enough. Petey has done a remarkable job, but I'm guessing the USC fans would call this season his first really disappointing one. Bud had them and Barry had them. The question is what the rebound is going to look like or if there is one.

[spatton713]

How do we think Josh would do as the OC? The same for Shipp as DC? Patton has not lived up to his storied last name. Instead, he's more like SGT Bilko. I tend to think that talent is there and it will be coming in, but they need development. That development has not been there. Like I said in another thread, Schmitty's performance needs to be seriously evaluated.

lol as a Patton myself i have to agree...Didnt he say at the start of the year that trent williams was the best lineman ever at OU? same guy who got bradford hurt and has had a very unattractive year...shoulda left for the nfl last year...

[ndpruitt03]

2000-2004

In those 5 seasons we had 7 losses.
We won 90% of our games.
We won at least 85% of our games every season.


2005-2009

In those 5 seasons we already have 17 losses with OSU and a bowl remaining.
We've won 73% of our games.
We've only one 85% of our games once in those 5 years.

I'll have to look this up but I bet we've had more NFL talent in the last 5 years than in the first 5 years.

[soonerboy]

aura of invinciblity? dude in 2001-2002 we blew...not as bad but we were not very good.

[StoopTroup]

I'm pretty sure the guys doing the evaluations are on it right now. They have a job to do also. I'm betting they are getting ready for aggie. They'll have plenty of time to hash out who's to blame or who's staying after Saturday.

That being said....should they get a Bowl Game. They won't be waiting until January to play it either so I'm betting they'll be busy trying to put together a plan for whoever they might play.

[Curly Bill]

I'm pretty sure the guys doing the evaluations are on it right now. They have a job to do also. I'm betting they are getting ready for aggie. They'll have plenty of time to hash out who's to blame or who's staying after Saturday.

That being said....should they get a Bowl Game. They won't be waiting until January to play it either so I'm betting they'll be busy trying to put together a plan for whoever they might play.


Plan for and be ready for a bowl game? That would be a novel concept round these parts. :P

[StoopTroup]

The more negative your are as a fan...the quicker we turn it around Curly.

We must be gonna kick some *** this week.

[Curly Bill]

The more negative your are as a fan...the quicker we turn it around Curly.

We must be gonna kick some *** this week.

If our turnaround time is going to be dictated by my negativity we should be world beaters right about now, because right now I don't have a lot of good things to say about the state of the OU football program. ;) :D

[Jdog]

its amazing how all of our loses are program changers - for the other programs:
KSU
WVU
Boise
Tech
and even dare I say - SUC and LSU. - we made them legit.

[rtjordan2242]

we were not ready sat. on either side of the ball

[delhalew]

its amazing how all of our loses are program changers - for the other programs:
KSU
WVU
Boise
Tech
and even dare I say - SUC and LSU. - we made them legit.

This is true.

You know you are a badass when a win over you launches the opponent into relevance.

BTW you left out TCU:D

[StoopTroup]

If our turnaround time is going to be dictated by my negativity we should be world beaters right about now, because right now I don't have a lot of good things to say about the state of the OU football program. ;) :D

I was noticing that.

[bluedogok]

Unless you think Bob Stoops doesn't know how to coach and recruit that's a ridiculous statement. Give Urban Meyer or Pete Carroll etc this level of talent they NEVER in a million years lose 5 games with it and probably win 12 gaems with it
You may have overestimated the talent level, just because guys have "recruiting service stars" by their names doesn't mean they are all that in college. Many of those highly ranked recruits turn out to be average players and some are busts. Petey probably has more talent right now at USC but has still been able to lose three games this season. Recruiting is a very inexact science and many teams miss on players, just look at Welker, he only had something like two DI-A offers and the Tech one was a last minute offer and yet he leads the NFL in receptions.


2000-2004

In those 5 seasons we had 7 losses.
We won 90% of our games.
We won at least 85% of our games every season.


2005-2009

In those 5 seasons we already have 17 losses with OSU and a bowl remaining.
We've won 73% of our games.
We've only one 85% of our games once in those 5 years.

I'll have to look this up but I bet we've had more NFL talent in the last 5 years than in the first 5 years.
Maybe that is part of the problem, too many "me first" guys who are only looking to make it to the NFL rather than the punch you in the mouth and work harder than you players. It seems like there are very few anymore like AD who possess those qualities with legitimate NFL caliber talent.

I tend to be a bit more of a pessimist/realist than many, I don't EVER expect to go undefeated, it requires too many things falling "just right" to pull that off. In Switzer's championship years it was usually easier to go undefeated, the talent wasn't as spread around as it is now but they still only went undefeated in 1974 (11-0) when they couldn't play in a bowl game, in 1975 and 1985 they were both 11-1. In fact in the BCS era many of the champions have had a loss. Like I stated before, I could see a possibility of three losses, mainly because of the road woes, I saw the possibility of losing at Miami, the Whorns and at Nebraska, not that they would lose them but to me those had the highest probability of happening.

[stoopified]

Yesterday was bad. Really bad. I know, no s**t. IMO, this loss was on par with KSU 2003 and USC 2004. I don't think this program has regained its dominance from the early Stoops years following those two losses. We've lost that aura of invincibility we had from 2000-2002. This loss was just like those losses. OUr team was outplayed, outcoached, and basically quit by the 4th qtr. This one is going to be tough one to recover from, especially if there are no changes in the leadership. Stoops has been here 11 years. Maybe he doesn't have any motivational ploys that these guys haven't already heard. Am I calling for his head? Absolutely not. I believe he is a great coach and I wouldn't take anyone over him. I don't know where we go from here or how we pick up the pieces. Thats for the coaches and players to figure out. All I know is that this was the most disheartening loss since USC and that this Tech team was in no way comparable to USC.I agree about comparing this loss to KSU and USC,in fact those are the games that come to mind while that trainwreck of agame was unfolding.However to call this a program defining moment is a knee-jerk reaction borne of frustration.This game in NO WAY defines OU or the Bob Stoops era.At no other time in OU history have we suffered as many critical injuries as we have this year on what was an inexperienced and thin unit on O-line . By this time next year this will all be a distant memory.

[TJKDone]

Yesterday was bad. Really bad. I know, no s**t. IMO, this loss was on par with KSU 2003 and USC 2004...I don't know where we go from here or how we pick up the pieces.

Start by putting on the coffee!

You played for the MNC last year!

Hook'em

[TUSooner]

No one game "defines" a program, not for long anyway. The definition changes year to year and week to week. The Tt beatdown defined only where we are right now, which is hoping that there's noplace lower to go than here. We're having a bad year; that's all.

[ndpruitt03]

No one game "defines" a program, not for long anyway. The definition changes year to year and week to week. The Tt beatdown defined only where we are right now, which is hoping that there's noplace lower to go than here. We're having a bad year; that's all.

It's not just one year the last 5 years have not been that good. The number bear that out.

[BoulderSooner79]

It's not just one year the last 5 years have not been that good. The number bear that out.

Er, 3 conference titles and 1 BCS title appearance doesn't bear that out. No good endings, I'll agree with.

[ndpruitt03]

I posted this earlier but you didn't read it obviously.

2000-2004

In those 5 seasons we had 7 losses.
We won 90% of our games.
We won at least 85% of our games every season.


2005-2009

In those 5 seasons we already have 17 losses with OSU and a bowl remaining.
We've won 73% of our games.
We've only one 85% of our games once in those 5 years.

[TUSooner]

It's not just one year the last 5 years have not been that good. The number bear that out.

I certainly won't contest that.
My real point is only that the definition of those 5 years was not written in one game.

[SpiderInMyPeanuts]

Ok question. Say we beat Boise St. and WVU in the Fiesta in 2006-2007 are we still talking about all of our Bowl issues? Essentially we are 1-3 in National Championshiop games with 3 of them being "home" games for the opponent. Just a thought.

I personally think those 2 losses really hurt. Bob would be 4-3 in BCS bowls vs a 2-5 record with 5 straight losses.

[BoulderSooner79]

I didn't say the last 5 years were better than the previous (or compared to any other 5 year swath you want to take). It's just hard to define them as "not good" when you win 60% of the conference titles and make a national title appearance. I started following OU in '71 and compared to '71-'75, we were "bad" in every other 5 year period except during the 47 game streak.

[TUSooner]

Ok question. Say we beat Boise St. and WVU in the Fiesta in 2006-2007 are we still talking about all of our Bowl issues?
****
Of course not! That's like saying, "If we won would we still have lost?"

We'd still probably bithch about losing those MNCG's though. But if we were the kind of team to win those 2 non-MNC bowls, we might not have been the same team that crapped out in the big games.

A silly question, for which I gave a stupid answer. :rolleyes: :D

[ndpruitt03]

I didn't say the last 5 years were better than the previous (or compared to any other 5 year swath you want to take). It's just hard to define them as "not good" when you win 60% of the conference titles and make a national title appearance. I started following OU in '71 and compared to '71-'75, we were "bad" in every other 5 year period except during the 47 game streak.

If we actually played the 2nd best team in the conference for the Big 12 title those years(in other words Texas) do you think we win 3 of our last 5 Big 12 titles. The only thing that it says when we win the Big 12 is that we got lucky and faced a B12 North team.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Thanks for brightening up my day....

[PLaw]

I agree about comparing this loss to KSU and USC,in fact those are the games that come to mind while that trainwreck of agame was unfolding.However to call this a program defining moment is a knee-jerk reaction borne of frustration.This game in NO WAY defines OU or the Bob Stoops era.At no other time in OU history have we suffered as many critical injuries as we have this year on what was an inexperienced and thin unit on O-line . By this time next year this will all be a distant memory.


Generally agree.

OL next year:

Habern, SO - center (?? can he stay healthy)
Evans, SO - LG
Good, JR - RG
Brandon, SR RT (don't think he can handle LT)
Stephenson, JR (Jones or Jeffries??) LT??

I hope the lessons of this season gets through to this unit or we may be in for more of the same.

BOOMER