Optimism vs. Reality

[Crimsontothecore]

I've read a lot of opinions here concerning our disappointing season thus far. Unlike many of you, I don't pretend to know the X's and O's of football better than Stoops and his staff so I'm not going to go down that road.

The optimistic side of me attributes the woes of this season to the fact that we lost our two best offensive players and we have a new offensive line that just hasn't performed well. Add to that a barrage of Injuries and you have the perfect recipe for a mediocre season, even if you are OU. Things will be righted in the off-season and next year we will once again stake our claim to a spot in the top ten.

The realistic side of me says that we are simply seeing the Stoops dynasty winding down. Maybe our once firey, hungry, and determined coach has lost some of his drive. Maybe complacency has crept in. Maybe we need to lower our sights a bit and realize that competing for conference titles is nothing to sneeze at even if we can't beat the Florida's, LSU's, Boise's, West Virginia's and USC's on the bigger stage.

Like I stated at the outset, I'm no X's and O's guru so I don't know how much of the decline can be blamed on coaching. What I do know is that coach Stoops has never fired a member of his staff in 11 years so it's not likely to start now, nor do I really know if it's needed.

Sometimes I feel sorry for Bob because he's a victim of his own success. Do you ever wonder how we as fans would feel right now had Torrance Marshall not intercepted that late pass against A&M in 2000? Or what if Josh Fields pass to the end zone in the final minutes had not been tipped away to preserve a 12-7 win in Stillwater? Take away either of those two plays 10 years ago and we would find ourselves right here, right now looking back on 10 very good years of OU football, but probably without the spoiled expectations of winning it all.

[badger]

Reality: We are one year removed from the national title game and a Big 12 championship

Reality: We lost both of our games last year by 10 points each, hardly blowouts.

Reality: We would be having a similar season if we didn't have so many d@mn injuries.

Aren't I a merry sunshine.

[Sooner-N-KS]

Reality: We are one year removed from the national title game and a Big 12 championship

Reality: We lost both of our games last year by 10 points each, hardly blowouts.

Reality: We would be having a similar season if we didn't have so many d@mn injuries.

Aren't I a merry sunshine.

Reality: OU has a problem winning big games outside of Oklahoma.

Reality: OU hasn't won a BCS game since the Rose Bowl, losing 5 BCS games in the process.

Reality: If OU had stayed healthy it is very possible that they would be undefeated right now........setting themselves up to be out-coached once again in the BCS champioinship.

[TXBOOMER]

"All good is hard. All evil is easy. Dying, losing, cheating, and mediocrity is easy. Stay away from easy." Injuries obviously have played a factor in our losses. That excuse doesn't work for the Nebraska loss.

[the_ouskull]

Optimism: I want OU to win every game in which they play, every championship for which they compete, and to sign every recruit that we need.

Reality: That sh*t ain't happenin'.

-----

The problems that I've already stated that I have with this year's team, BEFORE we were a four-loss team, I'd like to add, came about long before this season, and, unless addressed, will continue to plague us after this season.

The injuries are a concern yes, and one that needs to be addressed... but the greater concern is the lack of accountability, from the Head Honcho all the way on down. This is something else that's been discussed, and I don't want to get back into it here, but it has become obvious to most educated observers that this OU team isn't of the same mindset as past OU teams, pre- and post- Stoops.

I think a down year or two will help us, ultimately. We'll start getting the kinds of players who have had to work for what they have instead of simply being gifted with it and expecting championships as a result... This, of course, assumes that the lapsed time will also cure our coaches of the same affliction...

Family IS important, but nobody gets paid $3 million annually to be the best family man in the country... they get paid that to be the best coach in the country, and I'll be the *sshole to say it, but Stoops has gone out of his way his whole career to NOT be like Bill Snyder; to be the opposite of him, in fact, and now, I feel like his coaching has suffered as a result. Did the rest of the country catch up to us that quickly, or is Bob no longer doing the things, as a coach, that a younger man has no problems with doing? (Late nights, extra film, scouting, etc...) Is he also no longer requiring it of his assistants...? Our coaching staff has been roundly out-coached these past few seasons, and in big games, it's rarely even been close. Maybe one more film session and one less fruity drink next year, eh?

(I say next year 'cause the odds of us going to a bowl with "fruity drinks" this season are rather svelte.)

These are the questions that I want to see at press conferences and hear on call-in shows. Sadly, most of our local sports "journalists" are more concerned with their access than they are the story, so we won't hear them... ever... or at least until it's too late. Then, I'm sure a rash of similar stories will pop up. I hate people.

the_ouskull

[Collier11]

The injuries are a concern yes, and one that needs to be addressed... but the greater concern is the lack of accountability, from the Head Honcho all the way on down. This is something else that's been discussed, and I don't want to get back into it here, but it has become obvious to most educated observers that this OU team isn't of the same mindset as past OU teams, pre- and post- Stoops.

The injuries are more than a concern Skull, we are missing 6 offensive starters for the year. Because of this we have had to play some true and resdshirt freshman who werent ready, including Landry. Despite this, Landry is having a pretty dang good year minus one game. We played in the natl title game last yr, likely would have this yr had we stayed healthy, we are 12pts from being undefeated against 4 ranked teams, we arent that far off.

I think a down year or two will help us, ultimately.

This I agree with but for different reasons, I think if there is any complacency at all with Stoops this will help, if he isnt at all complacent and just did a marginal job getting this team ready, this will help as well. Coaches dont like to be embarrassed or outcoached, Stoops knows that despite the injuries we probably still should be undefeated, at worst a 1 or 2 loss team. He blew it this year, alot of our coaches blew it this year.

I would not be shocked if we make another run at a natl title next yr, with the new(hopefully) fire under Stoops azz. The best thing for next yr is the worst thing for this yr, all of these young guys including Landry getting a ton of pt.

[OU4LIFE]

Reality: OU has a problem winning big games outside of Oklahoma.

Reality: OU hasn't won a BCS game since the Rose Bowl, losing 5 BCS games in the process.

Reality: If OU had stayed healthy it is very possible that they would be undefeated right now........setting themselves up to be out-coached once again in the BCS champioinship.

I call bull**** on being out-coached in 5 BCS games.

if you truly believe that.....well, I just don't have the words.

[Crimsontothecore]

Optimism: I want OU to win every game in which they play, every championship for which they compete, and to sign every recruit that we need.

Reality: That sh*t ain't happenin'.

-----

The problems that I've already stated that I have with this year's team, BEFORE we were a four-loss team, I'd like to add, came about long before this season, and, unless addressed, will continue to plague us after this season.

The injuries are a concern yes, and one that needs to be addressed... but the greater concern is the lack of accountability, from the Head Honcho all the way on down. This is something else that's been discussed, and I don't want to get back into it here, but it has become obvious to most educated observers that this OU team isn't of the same mindset as past OU teams, pre- and post- Stoops.

I think a down year or two will help us, ultimately. We'll start getting the kinds of players who have had to work for what they have instead of simply being gifted with it and expecting championships as a result... This, of course, assumes that the lapsed time will also cure our coaches of the same affliction...

Family IS important, but nobody gets paid $3 million annually to be the best family man in the country... they get paid that to be the best coach in the country, and I'll be the *sshole to say it, but Stoops has gone out of his way his whole career to NOT be like Bill Snyder; to be the opposite of him, in fact, and now, I feel like his coaching has suffered as a result. Did the rest of the country catch up to us that quickly, or is Bob no longer doing the things, as a coach, that a younger man has no problems with doing? (Late nights, extra film, scouting, etc...) Is he also no longer requiring it of his assistants...? Our coaching staff has been roundly out-coached these past few seasons, and in big games, it's rarely even been close. Maybe one more film session and one less fruity drink next year, eh?

(I say next year 'cause the odds of us going to a bowl with "fruity drinks" this season are rather svelte.)

These are the questions that I want to see at press conferences and hear on call-in shows. Sadly, most of our local sports "journalists" are more concerned with their access than they are the story, so we won't hear them... ever... or at least until it's too late. Then, I'm sure a rash of similar stories will pop up. I hate people.

the_ouskull

Nobody has been less judgmental of coach Stoops than I have, but I totally agree with everything you've said. I truly believe complacency has reared it's ugly head at OU. Just yesterday I watched Stoops press conference and how snippy he became when someone asked if players are getting too much blame. I've heard him say many times that, among the players, no ones job is secure. The players must constantly work hard in practice and give it 110% if they want to see the field on Saturdays. While I completely agree with his approach, I also feel he should apply it to his coaching staff as well. Unfortunately, the good ol' boy system seems to be alive and well among he and his staff. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for continuity but if a change needs to be made then how dare coach Stoops put his personal friendship above what's in the best interest of the program.
One very telling statement during his presser came when a reporter asked what Stoops attributed the O-lineman attrition to. He said that most of it is guys leaving because they don't want to put fourth the effort and hard work it takes to play at this level. If THIS offensive line is comprised of guys who were the toughest and most able to withstand the rigors of training then we are in deep trouble.

[Collier11]

I call bull**** on being out-coached in 5 BCS games.

if you truly believe that.....well, I just don't have the words.

I would say outplayed in 4, outcoached in 1


One very telling statement during his presser came when a reporter asked what Stoops attributed the O-lineman attrition to. He said that most of it is guys leaving because they don't want to put fourth the effort and hard work it takes to play at this level. If THIS offensive line is comprised of guys who were the toughest and most able to withstand the rigors of training then we are in deep trouble.


Stoops and crew have been very consistent with this, if you are lazy you are gone, they dont let you flounder around

[Leroy Lizard]

The injuries are a concern yes, and one that needs to be addressed... but the greater concern is the lack of accountability, from the Head Honcho all the way on down.

What is it that you want the coaching staff to do to demonstrate accountability?

Blubbering apologies to the fans?

Pray tell. I hear this crap all the time: "We need accountability!" What exactly is that, and how do you want the coaching staff demonstrating it?


Family IS important, but nobody gets paid $3 million annually to be the best family man in the country... they get paid that to be the best coach in the country, and I'll be the *sshole to say it, but Stoops has gone out of his way his whole career to NOT be like Bill Snyder; to be the opposite of him, in fact, and now, I feel like his coaching has suffered as a result. Did the rest of the country catch up to us that quickly, or is Bob no longer doing the things, as a coach, that a younger man has no problems with doing? (Late nights, extra film, scouting, etc...) Is he also no longer requiring it of his assistants...? Our coaching staff has been roundly out-coached these past few seasons, and in big games, it's rarely even been close. Maybe one more film session and one less fruity drink next year, eh?

If you're calling Stoops and his staff lazy, come out and say it.

[Leroy Lizard]

I've heard him say many times that, among the players, no ones job is secure. The players must constantly work hard in practice and give it 110% if they want to see the field on Saturdays. While I completely agree with his approach, I also feel he should apply it to his coaching staff as well.

How do you know he doesn't?

[Crimsontothecore]

Stoops and crew have been very consistent with this, if you are lazy you are gone, they dont let you flounder around

And I agree with the method, I just think it should apply to assistant coaches too. The players know that being lazy or floundering will cost them their job...the coaches have no such worries.

Besides, at least a portion of this teams lackluster performance is the result of uninspired coaching. To think otherwise is just pure denial.

[Collier11]

OK listen up, I know what you are getting at but be realistic. Last season our offense set a NATIONAL SCORING RECORD, KW has proven over his time here to be a good off coord. He has had a bad yr that has been magnified by the lack of talent he has to work with this yr due to injuries.

The only coach at this point who needs to worry IMO is the Oline coach, Patton I think. Our Oline was lazy and messed up a bunch last yr, has done the same thing this yr

[Crimsontothecore]

How do you know he doesn't?

I know because of what I see on the field right now. Name another coach going into his 11th season who has NEVER fired a member of his staff? When he took the job he hired the hottest offensive coordinator in the nation in Mike Leach. Mike Stoops, along with Bob, were defensive geniuses. As these guys were hired away, they were not replaced with coaches of the same caliber. Every other elite program replaces exiting coaches with guys who are hot commodities and are getting national recognition for their talents. Here, we just keep promoting from within. There's a reason other schools aren't coming after our coordinators like they once did. Sad but true.

[Leroy Lizard]

Besides, at least a portion of this teams lackluster performance is the result of uninspired coaching. To think otherwise is just pure denial.

And how do you know this? Do you use an inspir-o-meter?

[Crimsontothecore]

OK listen up, I know what you are getting at but be realistic. Last season our offense set a NATIONAL SCORING RECORD, KW has proven over his time here to be a good off coord. He has had a bad yr that has been magnified by the lack of talent he has to work with this yr due to injuries.

The only coach at this point who needs to worry IMO is the Oline coach, Patton I think. Our Oline was lazy and messed up a bunch last yr, has done the same thing this yr

Ok, and do you seriously think coach Stoops is giving any thought whatsoever to firing Patton? Now do you see where I'm coming from?

In fact, look at what you wrote: Lazy and messed up a bunch last year.....but still coached by the same guy. Case in point.

[Crimsontothecore]

And how do you know this? Do you use an inspir-o-meter?

My inspire-o-meter is known as EYES.

[Leroy Lizard]

I know because of what I see on the field right now. Name another coach going into his 11th season who has NEVER fired a member of his staff

Oh my God we sound like Hornfans back in 2004. They said the SAME THING.

UT is now ranked #2 and could win their second national title this decade.

I am not sure I remember Mack Brown firing any of his coordinators. All the super-smart fans like you wanted Greg Davis fired, and criticized Mack horrendously for sticking with him. Here is a petition to get rid of Greg Davis:

http://www.petitiononline.com/FireGD/petition.html

But now, we see Web pages listing reasons why Greg Davis is the best offensive coordinator in the country.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/54922-five-reasons-why-texas-oc-greg-davis-is-the-best-in-the-country

I would have liked to think that such idiocy was relegated to Horn fans, but obviously I was wrong.


When he took the job he hired the hottest offensive coordinator in the nation in Mike Leach. Mike Stoops, along with Bob, were defensive geniuses. As these guys were hired away, they were not replaced with coaches of the same caliber.

Remind me again, which offensive coordinator oversaw the greatest scoring machine in college football history? And how long ago was that?

Incredible. Just freakin' incredible. Hell, wait at least a few years after the OC sets a national record before complaining. It won't make your complaints any more valid, but at least you won't end up looking too much like a nut.


Every other elite program replaces exiting coaches with guys who are hot commodities and are getting national recognition for their talents. Here, we just keep promoting from within.

KW was not promoted from within. Neither was Patton. Those are the two guys getting slammed the most, so what are you talking about?

[Leroy Lizard]

My inspire-o-meter is known as EYES.

I have eyes too, and the coaching staff looks wonderfully inspired. Two can play this game.

[Collier11]

Ok, and do you seriously think coach Stoops is giving any thought whatsoever to firing Patton? Now do you see where I'm coming from?

In fact, look at what you wrote: Lazy and messed up a bunch last year.....but still coached by the same guy. Case in point.

Maybe Stoops is the kind of guy who thinks, "I know Patton is a good coach and I see what he teaches them and it is a good, maybe the players need an attitude adjustment or Patton needs to do his teaching in a different way" as opposed to just thinking Patton is horrible, I dont know, youd have to ask him

[RedstickSooner]

Having Coach Stoops as your coach is like being married to Carol Stoops. You know she's hot, but there's always going to be some part of you that asks: Could I have married someone *even hotter*?

It's only human.

[KingWKB]

Just for the sake of conversation I'm asking this question, it is clearly hypothetical so don't shat in your pants.

What does OU have to do (or not do, like win games) for you to seriously consider a coaching change?

Is it lose out this year? Then don't make it to a bowl next year either? Or does he have a longer leash than that?

Just wondering.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Bob would have to lose every game of the season and rape a horsepig on national tv for me to give up on him.

[Collier11]

I would be ok with him raping a horsepig, they deserve it

[Collier11]

For Stoops to be fired he would have to commit some great atrocity or he would have to have 2 or 3 straight seasons like this one where the team just doesnt look prepared or disciplined alot of the time

[KingWKB]

I agree. 2-3 more seasons of this stuff like this year and his seat would be HOT. But realistically, that won't happen.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I agree. 2-3 more seasons of this stuff like this year and his seat would be HOT. But realistically, that won't happen.

No way will this go on for longer than this season. We'll be back in a big way before you know it.

[MamaMia]

I'm still going to confirm my hotel reservations, pack my suitcase and make the long drive to cheer on the Sooners, who I send a lot of hard earned money to. I will, as usual, put up with whatever weather I have to endure to do so and I will, with ever lasting loyalty, cheer on the team of my alma mater. I have been going to games for decades and I can feel it when its there. Something is missing in this team. I don't know what it is but it didn't just happen overnight, or this year.

[Collier11]

We will be right back in the natl title hunt next yr, the only diff is that we will be pissed off and I like it that way

[RedstickSooner]

I would be ok with him raping a horsepig, they deserve it

Yeah, I was gonna say, if he rapes a horespig (especially on national television) dude gets 3 extra seasons in my book.

I mean, who isn't scared of a coach willing to rape his own mascot?

[TXBOOMER]

Oh my God we sound like Hornfans back in 2004. They said the SAME THING.

UT is now ranked #2 and could win their second national title this decade.



Thanks to VY they won a national title. We don't have a VY anywhere in sight. They could win another MNC but I doubt they can beat Fla. or Bama, either way please don't premature crown those dick slaps. We had our run. I have very low expectations for next year. Hopefully, we can get back in the mix in 2011. We need three or 4 good JUCO OL's (Phil Loadholt types) in here to be decent next year and that isn't going to happen. I truly believe the dumbest thing Stoops could do is not fire Patton. He is not getting it done period end of story.

[ocsooner]

Yeah, I was gonna say, if he rapes a horespig (especially on national television) dude gets 3 extra seasons in my book.

I mean, who isn't scared of a coach willing to rape his own mascot?

I would prefer that he just beats the snot out of it. Raping indicates some kind of lust, and I can't imagine anyone feeling that for the horsepigs.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Dick slaps is gonna be my phrase of the day.

[Collier11]

Yeah, I was gonna say, if he rapes a horespig (especially on national television) dude gets 3 extra seasons in my book.

I mean, who isn't scared of a coach willing to rape his own mascot?

"Im gonna rape you in a real good way horsepig b*tch"

"nayyyyy".


The End!

[TUSooner]

I recently blasted Boise State for being a 1-trick pony: They win the 1 big game on their schedule and then have a cakewalk through the rest of it.

I now realize we are sort-of like that. Except we usually obliterate the minnows on the schedule and do NOT win the big game.

Am I frustrated?
Yep (as much as you can be over "just a game")

Do I have unrealistic expectations?
I have only the expectations instilled through 5 decades of being a Sooner fan. If those are unreal, it's OU's fault! ;)

[MamaMia]

Oh my God we sound like Hornfans back in 2004. They said the SAME THING.

UT is now ranked #2 and could win their second national title this decade.

...........................Its not the same situation. The only game they lost that year was to us. They may "play" for their second national title. If they win that National Championship game, it will be the second one they play for and the second one they will have won. We cant seem to do that.

[BoulderSooner79]

I recently blasted Boise State for being a 1-trick pony: They win the 1 big game on their schedule and then have a cakewalk through the rest of it.

I now realize we are sort-of like that. Except we usually obliterate the minnows on the schedule and do NOT win the big game.

Am I frustrated?
Yep (as much as you can be over "just a game")

Do I have unrealistic expectations?
I have only the expectations instilled through 5 decades of being a Sooner fan. If those are unreal, it's OU's fault! ;)

5 decades? Then you lived through the 90's. And the 60's were not that great either. Maybe you are blessed with high expectations and selective memory. ;) ;)

[badger]

Boo hoo, we're not going to win the Big 12 for the first time since 2005. At least we expect like 4-5 good seasons in order to put up with one OK season. At Iowa, the coach only needs one good season every five years in order to cash in.

[MamaMia]

Winning the Big XII Championship is like football fore play. Winning the National Championship is the climax. We've had our door bell rung right before we get to that point. When that happens more than once, it can make some people get a little frustrated.

[TUSooner]

5 decades? Then you lived through the 90's. And the 60's were not that great either. Maybe you are blessed with high expectations and selective memory. ;) ;)

I kinda missed the 90's. I was out of Oklahoma and not too internet savvy. :O

But once you've had the best, that's all you want, and you never stop wanting it. :D

[TXBOOMER]

Winning the Big XII Championship is like football fore play. Winning the National Championship is the climax. We've had our door bell rung right before we get to that point. When that happens more than once, it can make some people get a little frustrated.

Blue Ballz.....:D

[OUMallen]

Realistic hypothetical:


An OU fan was trying to get a candy bar out of a vending machine in
late August when the machine suddenly tipped over and fell on his
head, sending him in a coma. His family and friends gave up on him,
but he suddenly woke up tonight.
After being checked over by the medical professionals and re-
connecting with his family, his got some time alone with his best
friend, also a big Sooner fan, and the following conversation took
place:
Coma guy: I asked the doctors earlier if I could go the aTm game this
weekend. They said it was likely. I can't wait to see Sam Bradford.
Friend: Uh, about that, Sam got hurt in the first half of the opener,
came back, played against Baylor, and was re-injured early in the
Texas game. Out for the year. Done as a Sooner.
Coma guy: Oh my gosh. That is awful. I'll bet that has really had an
impact on Gresham's numbers.
Friend: Uh, about that, Gresham was hurt right before the season.
Never played a down. Out for the year. Done as a Sooner.
Coma guy: Oh my gosh. That too is awful. Was Brody able to fill in as
tight end.
Friend, Uh, about that, there were some injuries at the center
position before the season and Brody had to open the season at center.
Then, because of other issues on the line, he has played at guard.
Coma guy: We'll, it will be odd to see him out there on the offensive
line against aTm.
Friend: Uh, about that, Brody was injured against Nebraska. Out for
the year. Done as a Sooner.
Coma guy: Has Clapp been able to pick up some of the blocking slack?
Friend: Uh, about that, broken hand.
Coma guy: It sounds like there have been a lot of O-line issues. Has
Donald Stephenson cracked the lineup?
Friend: Uh, about that, he was suspended for the year for off the
field issues. Hasn't played a down.
Coma guy: I'll bet Brian Simmons has been on the field a lot then.
Friend: Uh, about that, he was injured and has missed a few games as
well.
Coma guy: How about that Jarvis Jones guy who played on the LSU
national championship team?
Friend: Uh, about that, he has played a lot, but was injured against
Nebraska and is out for the year.
Coma guy: How about Tavaris Jeffries?
Friend: Uh, about that, played some, suspended some, and, most
recently, suffered a tragic death in the family and missed a game.
Coma guy: What about Tyler Evans?
Friend: Uh, about that, played some, missed some games with an ankle
injury.
Coma guy: This is unreal. How about Broyles?
Friend: Uh, about that, broken collarbone very early in the Miami
game. Missed a game and was touch and go for Texas, but gutted it out.
Coma guy: I'll bet that put a lot of pressure on Murray.
Friend: Yeah; he missed some time too with an ankle issue.
Coma guy: Then, Caleb must have had to step up.
Friend: Yeah, but he too has missed some time to with an ankle injury.
Coma guy: How about Mike Balogun. Has he continued to progress?
Friend: Uh, about that, declared ineligible before the season. Never
played a down. Done as a Sooner.
Coma guy: Did that at least open the door for Wort to get some time at
linebacker.
Friend: Uh, about that, Wort was injured before the year started.
Never played a down.
Coma guy: Well, at least I will get to see English and Beal take apart
aTm.
Friend: Uh, about that, English was also injured against Nebraska. He
is out for the year. Done as a Sooner.
Coma guy: With all of this and games against BYU, at Miami, against
Texas, and at Nebraska, I'll bet the team has lost four or five games.
Friend: You must still have damage to your head. It is clearly all the
coaches' fault, you sunshine pumper.

[BoulderSooner79]

Don't leave us hangin' - did he ever get his candy bar? At least a refund?

[MamaMia]

Don't leave us hangin' - did he ever get his candy bar? At least a refund?The fantastic uninjured players on our team all pitched in a dime and bought him one. :D

[madillsoonerfan5353]

The realistic side of me says that we are simply seeing the Stoops dynasty winding down. Maybe our once firey, hungry, and determined coach has lost some of his SWAGGER or drive. Maybe complacency has crept in.


THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Leroy Lizard]

The coma story was spot on.


Thanks to VY they won a national title. We don't have a VY anywhere in sight. They could win another MNC but I doubt they can beat Fla. or Bama, either way please don't premature crown those dick slaps.

The VY thing was created by Mack and Davis haters to explain away the success of their 2005 season. They were one missed INT from finishing undefeated last year too, and VY wasn't on the team.

Very few Horn fans are criticizing Greg Davis and Mack Brown today. Why is that, given that so many of them were certain just a few years ago that they were horrible coaches?

Answer: Fans can't evaluate coaches. They simply don't know enough about what goes on behind the scenes to make a fair evaluation.

[badger]

If you wanna crown em, then crown their arse! But they ARE who we THOUGHT they were!

And we let em off the hook!!!!!!!!! :mad:

:pop:

[TXBOOMER]

The coma story was spot on.



The VY thing was created by Mack and Davis haters to explain away the success of their 2005 season. They were one missed INT from finishing undefeated last year too, and VY wasn't on the team.

Very few Horn fans are criticizing Greg Davis and Mack Brown today. Why is that, given that so many of them were certain just a few years ago that they were horrible coaches?

Answer: Fans can't evaluate coaches. They simply don't know enough about what goes on behind the scenes to make a fair evaluation.

No VY = No MNC for the Dick Slaps. They play one being OU or two good teams a year. They generally lose one of them per year. This year we are the best team they have played which is not all that. Just watch and see what happens to them when they play a good team.

[Leroy Lizard]

No VY = No MNC for the Dick Slaps.

No Heupel = No MNC for Stoops.

Right?

[Leroy Lizard]

This year we are the best team they have played which is not all that. Just watch and see what happens to them when they play a good team.

Yeah, yeah, yeah... and Florida lost to Ole Miss last year, so Urban Meyer can't coach... and Switzer lost to Miami, so he can't coach...

If UT runs the table and wins the title (which I don't think they will) we will just say that Mack and Davis got lucky with Colt. It's always luck.

I'm no fan of UT, but that doesn't mean I have to consider their coaching staff idiots. Both Mack and Davis are good coaches. No reasonable person can suggest otherwise.

[badger]

No Heupel = No MNC for Stoops.

Right?

That's why we retain him :D

That, and those QB's he's mentored do pretty well.

[Leroy Lizard]

Yeah, but the QB he mentored threw five picks last week, which is proof that Heupel cannot coach and we need him fired. We want accountability, right?

And after all, it doesn't matter what he has done for us throughout his career as a coach, but what happened last week, but only if it was negative. If it was positive... well, we need to wait another week to see if he really is contributing.

And that's how it goes with fans.

[TXBOOMER]

No Heupel = No MNC for Stoops.

Right?

Sure. You are missing the point though. You could say that about several of the players on our national championship team. There is a long list, it was a great team, that was motivated and all the parts worked like a fine oiled machine. It was a GREAT COACHING JOB, with good players that made a GREAT TEAM!

VY damn near single handidly beat USC. I hate to admit it but it was the greatest college football performance on that grand of a stage that I have ever seen. It was a GREAT PLAYER with a good team and good coaching job that made a GREAT TEAM.

[tulsaoilerfan]

We will be right back in the natl title hunt next yr, the only diff is that we will be pissed off and I like it that way

Wish i shared your optimism, but what do you see on the offense that gives you hope that they will be better next season? At least in 05 we could see the promise on the line and in the receivers, but i'm just not seeing it this season; unless we can find 2-3 good linemen in the juco ranks we might be in this same mess next year.

[Collier11]

We will return about 6 guys who have played alot on the Oline, a QB, 3 running backs, all of our WRs except 1

[Leroy Lizard]

VY damn near single handidly beat USC. I hate to admit it but it was the greatest college football performance on that grand of a stage that I have ever seen. It was a GREAT PLAYER with a good team and good coaching job that made a GREAT TEAM.

Good coaching? UT fans were saying that Mack and Davis were terrible. Yet, this terrible coaching staff somehow managed to beat us last year, without VY.

The most likely explanation for UT's success is that the coaching staff is far better than UT fans thought, because fans are dimwits. The same goes for our coaching staff. We have fans that wouldn't know one end of a football field from another calling for changes in our coaching staff.

[pappy]

I'm sticking with my prediction of winning number 8 in 2011. We'll compete for the big 12 title in 2010 and a bcs game and we'll lose it and it will be 6 bcs losses in a row and we'll all be griping and then the following year we'll win it all and end the nasty bcs bowl loss streak in a big way. Oh and it will be done by the exact same coaching staff that we have now (stoops won't fire anyone) with some of the same players and some new ones. Get excited, but pace yourself on the excitement, like I said it won't be until 2011 and we still have to endure another bcs loss in 2010.

[BoulderSooner79]

I'm sticking with my prediction of winning number 8 in 2011. We'll compete for the big 12 title in 2010 and a bcs game and we'll lose it and it will be 6 bcs losses in a row and we'll all be griping and then the following year we'll win it all and end the nasty bcs bowl loss streak in a big way. Oh and it will be done by the exact same coaching staff that we have now (stoops won't fire anyone) with some of the same players and some new ones. Get excited, but pace yourself on the excitement, like I said it won't be until 2011 and we still have to endure another bcs loss in 2010.

Come on - at least mark your posting with *SPOILER ALERT*. You ruined 2 seasons for me.

;)

[tulsaoilerfan]

We will return about 6 guys who have played alot on the Oline, a QB, 3 running backs, all of our WRs except 1

But again what have you seen from those guys, outside of Landry and Broyles, that makes you think they will be any good? I just haven't seen any potential from the line, and that's where it all starts

[Collier11]

Well obviously you hope they improve throughout the rest of this yr/spring/summer and play up to their potential next yr.

Landry and the WRs I think will be good, its the Oline, all about the Oline

[the_edge]

I am not sure I remember Mack Brown firing any of his coordinators.

Carl Reese.

He may have, ahem, "resigned," but Mack forced him out after the UT fans were out for blood following the 2003 season.

[tulsaoilerfan]

Well obviously you hope they improve throughout the rest of this yr/spring/summer and play up to their potential next yr.

Landry and the WRs I think will be good, its the Oline, all about the Oline

yup, yup, yup, and that's what has me worried; at least in 2005 we could see the potential with Duke, Cooper, and Braxton, but i don't see any of the young guys that impress me at this point; hope we can bring in a couple of Loadholts from the JUCO ranks that can be impact players next season

[TXBOOMER]

Well obviously you hope they improve throughout the rest of this yr/spring/summer and play up to their potential next yr.

Landry and the WRs I think will be good, its the Oline, all about the Oline

I hope your right. But if I'm honest with myself I don't have any reason to expect much from this group of O lineman and Landry has a long way to go if he is the QB of the future (I personally don't think he is the QB of the next 3 years). But it will be an interesting ride to see how it all plays out.

[the_ouskull]

yup, yup, yup, and that's what has me worried; at least in 2005 we could see the potential with Duke, Cooper, and Braxton, but i don't see any of the young guys that impress me at this point; hope we can bring in a couple of Loadholts from the JUCO ranks that can be impact players next season

I'd be doing well, in life, in sport, if we never, ever, ever, ever brought in another Phil Loadholt. I'd rather have 10 Frank Romero's.

the_ouskull

[AlbqSooner]

The fantastic uninjured players on our team all pitched in a dime and bought him one. :D

Dang Mama - you are OLD!
Oh wait, maybe you meant each pitched in a dime.:D

[SoonerKnight]

Stoops went 8-4 in 2005. Remember? It is the injuries and the youth of this team. Next year we will definately be a lot better. We will go to the BCS and this year will be forgotten. LJ took over a very crappy situation. I mean he comes in and becomes the starter after the heisman winning QB gets hurt. He then gets compared to that other QB on a regular basis and then when the pressure gets to him the fans and media turn on him. I feel sorry for him. Stoops himself has said that he has realized even with all the injuries this team needs to do better and it ultimately reflects on him. I do not think he is being lazy.

I have also said that in the early 80's Switzer had two down years and the fans were calling for him to be fired. All I can say is this is college football people and this has been a really tough year for us these fair weather fans need to chill. Stoops will get this team to off to a better start next year. I do not think that he is on his way out either. I can not imagine what would happen to Oklahoma Football if that happened. I for one will be watching no matter what.

[Leroy Lizard]

Carl Reese.

He may have, ahem, "resigned," but Mack forced him out after the UT fans were out for blood following the 2003 season.

He was not fired. What evidence do we have that he was forced out?

[En_Fuego]

I can't believe that people really think OU would be undefeated if Bradford and Gresham were playing. With this Offensive Line.....It wouldnt matter if Tom Brady and Randy Moss were in the line-up.

[pappy]

I can't believe that people really think OU would be undefeated if Bradford and Gresham were playing. With this Offensive Line.....It wouldnt matter if Tom Brady and Randy Moss were in the line-up.

agreed that's what a friend of mine kept saying during the nebraska game "if we only had sam back there we'd be winning." I was like dude landry is getting hit everytime he throws the ball, it wouldn't matter who was taking the snaps.

[cvsooner]

With Bradford and Gresham defenses would have to scheme a bit differently. For one thing you'd have a blocking tight end, which would help. You'd also have a real, viable target to throw to besides Broyles. Right now, defenses only really have to account for Murray and Broyles, and a QB whose accuracy is not always superb.

With Sam and his experience, and Gresham offering a third option with real catchable hands...even with the problems on the o-line, I think you'd see an offense that would have looked a lot more like a Texas Tech offense.

[pappy]

Having Bradford and Gresham may have kept us from losing to Miami and *, but we lose to BYU and Neb anyway...They're defense's were getting in on the qb so fast it was like the O-line wasn't even on the field.

Actually having bradford and Gresham I guarantee we beat *. I'm not using that as an excuse though. The other 3 and definately the last 2 I mentioned are very iffy.

[Leroy Lizard]

I don't think we would be undefeated, but the notion isn't so absurd. After all, all four games were very close.

[Crimsontothecore]

Having Bradford and Gresham may have kept us from losing to Miami and *, but we lose to BYU and Neb anyway...They're defense's were getting in on the qb so fast it was like the O-line wasn't even on the field.

Actually having bradford and Gresham I guarantee we beat *. I'm not using that as an excuse though. The other 3 and definately the last 2 I mentioned are very iffy.

I disagree. I do think Bradford alone would have been the difference in the 1 point loss to BYU and I guarantee you he wouldn't have thrown 5 int's at NU and that would have been the difference there regardless of their defense.

[pappy]

I agree that he wouldn't have thrown 5 picks against neb but that doesn't guarantee points and a victory either. Is it more likely that we could've pulled out a victory in the 4 losses? yes. is it a sure thing? no. Would we be undefeated today? We'll never know.

[Crimsontothecore]

You're right, no guarantee but very likely considering the close losses.

[TXBOOMER]

Having Bradford and Gresham may have kept us from losing to Miami and *, but we lose to BYU and Neb anyway...They're defense's were getting in on the qb so fast it was like the O-line wasn't even on the field.

Actually having bradford and Gresham I guarantee we beat *. I'm not using that as an excuse though. The other 3 and definately the last 2 I mentioned are very iffy.

Obviously I'm not an all knowing space God, and I know if ifs and buts were candy and nuts we would all have a merry xmas but the BYU LB said after the game that he felt they probably would not have won the game if Sam had not been hurt. It is likely we would have finished a couple of those drives we missed field goals on if Sam and Gresh were in that game and had been playing all year. How quickly some of you people forget the kind of weapon Jermaine was and how accurate Sam was. Neb would have had 3 points because they wouldn't have had a 1st and goal from the one with Bradford in.

[OU4LIFE]

Winning the Big XII Championship is like football fore play. Winning the National Championship is the climax. We've had our door bell rung right before we get to that point. When that happens more than once, it can make some people get a little frustrated.

This might be the first time i've ever heard a woman complain about foreplay.

[TXBOOMER]

Good coaching? UT fans were saying that Mack and Davis were terrible. Yet, this terrible coaching staff somehow managed to beat us last year, without VY.


texass obviously has a good coaching staff. Did you watch the texass game last year? Ryan Reynolds went down and they picked us a part in the middle. You can argue that was coaching or you can say the talent and experience drop off from Reynolds to Crow was the blame. Either way texass then went on to choke against Tech and we went and played in the National Championship game. texass has a big recruiting advantage over us. We still manage to land big time players against them thanks to Stoops. I'll take Bob over Mack any day.

[pappy]

Obviously I'm not an all knowing space God, and I know if ifs and buts were candy and nuts we would all have a merry xmas but the BYU LB said after the game that he felt they probably would not have won the game if Sam had not been hurt. It is likely we would have finished a couple of those drives we missed field goals on if Sam and Gresh were in that game and had been playing all year. How quickly some of you people forget the kind of weapon Jermaine was and how accurate Sam was. Neb would have had 3 points because they wouldn't have had a 1st and goal from the one with Bradford in.

I know very well how good gresh is, I'm from ardmore. Just cause the byu lb said after the game that he felt they probably would not have won that game if sam had not been hurt doesn't mean that they would've lost the game. Also yeah I don't think sam would've thrown 5 int's against neb (like I said earlier, I feel I'm repeating myself) That doesn't mean he wouldn't have thrown 1 and it ended up being in the same situation that was the int that got neb to the goaline. That's not a dis on sam he's a great qb and very accurate but even the best qb's make mistakes every now and then. The way some people on here talk about sam you'd think he never threw an int in his whole career. how many did he throw in the mnc last year? I forget. It must have been zero cause surely sam in all his greatness wouldn't have thrown an int cause its impossible, only landry does that.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Reality: We've had a down year.

Reality Part 2: It won't continue this way...We're Sooners!

[Collier11]

I dont recall ever being more excited for a season to start than I was this year because I thought we had a legit shot to win it, it now appears that if healthy we would have had a legit shot.

I now am even more excited for next year :D

[the_ouskull]

I don't think we would be undefeated, but the notion isn't so absurd. After all, all four games were very close.

The notion is absurd. Our line and our receivers are too inexperienced, etc... to get the job done, regardless of who you put under center. Gresham isn't a one-man wrecking crew in the receiving corps. He's great, yes, but not perfect... Ditto with Sam...

It's nice to THINK that we'd be undefeated, but really it's a defeatist attitude to think that because you're undermining the current season when you think that. At least I'm being realistic about our prospects; present and future. Playing the "what if" game only serves to continue arguments (such as this one) that should have died on their own long ago.

the_ouskull

[TXBOOMER]

I know very well how good gresh is, I'm from ardmore. Just cause the byu lb said after the game that he felt they probably would not have won that game if sam had not been hurt doesn't mean that they would've lost the game. Also yeah I don't think sam would've thrown 5 int's against neb (like I said earlier, I feel I'm repeating myself) That doesn't mean he wouldn't have thrown 1 and it ended up being in the same situation that was the int that got neb to the goaline. That's not a dis on sam he's a great qb and very accurate but even the best qb's make mistakes every now and then. The way some people on here talk about sam you'd think he never threw an int in his whole career. how many did he throw in the mnc last year? I forget. It must have been zero cause surely sam in all his greatness wouldn't have thrown an int cause its impossible, only landry does that.
The point is we would of had a focking lot better of a chance to win with those guys in than we did with them out. It isn't even fair to compare Landry to Sam at this point in his career because Sam is that much better. Not one person here knows how good Landry may or may not end up being. Tell the big game crowd at Lakeview hey for me. Boomer!

[RedstickSooner]

Don't leave us hangin' - did he ever get his candy bar? At least a refund?

No, but the EMTs walked out of there with DOZENS :D

[Leroy Lizard]

The notion is absurd. Our line and our receivers are too inexperienced, etc... to get the job done, regardless of who you put under center.

Judging by this, we should have been blown out in our losses. If the OL and WRs really that bad, how did even stay in the game?

[the_ouskull]

Don't be facetious for the sake of continuing an argument unless you have a pot to p*ss in or a window to throw it out of. Especially if you're trying to argue with ME...

- Do you quarrel, sir?
- Quarrel sir, no, sir!
- If you do, sir, I am for you. I am just as good a fan as you.
- No better?

If you want to argue, just for the sake of arguing, then I am for you, sir. But, don't be stupid just for the sake of being pinata'ed. We stayed in those games due to the inspired play of our defense, and winning the battle of field position through said defense and a potent return game.

I mean, if you're just asking and all...

Do you even WATCH football? Do you like yourself?

the_ouskull

[Collier11]

in all fairness the Offense has been great...from the 20 to the 20, once we get there though we stall out almost every single time

[Leroy Lizard]

Don't be facetious for the sake of continuing an argument unless you have a pot to p*ss in or a window to throw it out of. Especially if you're trying to argue with ME...

- Do you quarrel, sir?
- Quarrel sir, no, sir!
- If you do, sir, I am for you. I am just as good a fan as you.
- No better?

If you want to argue, just for the sake of arguing, then I am for you, sir. But, don't be stupid just for the sake of being pinata'ed. We stayed in those games due to the inspired play of our defense, and winning the battle of field position through said defense and a potent return game.

I mean, if you're just asking and all...

Do you even WATCH football? Do you like yourself?

Just answer the question.

[the_ouskull]

Just answer the question.

Just read the post...


If you want to argue, just for the sake of arguing, then I am for you, sir. But, don't be stupid just for the sake of being pinata'ed. We stayed in those games due to the inspired play of our defense, and winning the battle of field position through said defense and a potent return game.

You DON'T watch football, do you? You old dog, you. You motorboatin'... never mind. Seriously. You're the one with an empty argument, crying "distraction tactic?" Grow up, Peter Pan.

the_ouskull

[Leroy Lizard]

We stayed in those games due to the inspired play of our defense, and winning the battle of field position through said defense and a potent return game.

And you can't win ball games by playing inspired defense and winning battles of field position?

All four games were decided by one score or less. Therefore, OU was very competitive in those games and the OL and WRs were good enough to keep us within a score. As most every reasonable person knows, when games are decided by a score or less then the game can be decided by a play here or a play there. So it is not absurd at all to think that if OU had its NFL-caliber QB and TE they could have won those games.

After all, if we come within one score of winning a game without Bradford and Gresham, but could not have won with Bradford and Gresham in the game, then you are saying that Bradford and Gresham have little impact on the team. So why even worry if they get hurt?

Do I think they would have won all for games? No. But is it outside the realm of possibility? Of course not.

Buy some brains.

[TMcGee86]

Reality: With a good Oline we are undefeated this year, or at worst, a one loss team. All of our problems stem from the OL. Without that problem Bradford doesn't get hurt, Eldridge isn't forced to move around, we dont play musical chairs which causes most of our penalties imho, and we easily have the one score per game needed to be undefeated.

Optimism: The line will get better next year. It can't get worse... right?