Hate crime?

[Sooner24]

Gee, I wonder if Nidal Hasan will be charged with a hate crime?

[texas bandman]

Do they still have firing squads in the military...I think that that would be an appropriate punishment.

[C&CDean]

Hate crime? Only white males who kill gays or minorities can be charged with a hate crime. You been living under a rock or something?

[texas bandman]

On second thought, I was too harsh...I think he just needs a hug.





:D

[C&CDean]

Oh yeah, I forgot white christians who kill abortion doctors. These are the worst hate crimes.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

http://vinceparker.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/haterade.gif

The drink of honkies and champions!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Gee, I wonder if Nidal Hasan will be charged with a hate crime?Heck, yes. His acts were much more inflammatory than plain old garden variety Islamo-terrorism.

[The Ghost of Mex]

This is a "text book" hate crime.



I mean a perfect example of a "hate crime." Not a hate crime against "Test Books." Sorry for any confusion.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

This is a "text book" hate crime.



I mean a perfect example of a "hate crime." Not a hate crime against "Test Books." Sorry for any confusion.Clear to me he hated Fort Hood. I hear it's kind of dull and boring, there. No wonder he reached out. He's the real victim, in many ways.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Clear to me he hated Fort Hood. I hear it's kind of dull and boring, there. No wonder he reached out. He's the real victim, in many ways.

Interesting story on NPR this morning, after all the let's not jump to conclusions and innocent until proven guilty statements prefacing the story, basically, he was failing his schooling and was being put to pasture at Fort Hood as he was going wacky at W.R. Enough so, some physicians (colleagues) thought he may be going schizophrenic and disassociating. He was ordered to Fort Hood to "get lost" and because they had a larger number of mental health professionals there to help him with his work load or to help him professionally should he break. Major was his final resting point and I am guessing if he hadn't yet, he was going to get a bad fitness report by the way things were worded.

After Scott D edit: I wasn't aware he already had poor reviews. Well he was either on his last one or had gotten it and was ready for retirement/separation.

And yeah, execution for either the murders or possibly treason for contacting the radical imam(s). Does the Army still do firing squads?

NPR story here... (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120313570)

[Scott D]

he'd already gotten poor reviews prior to being shipped to Ft. Hood.

And no, he won't be charged with a hate crime because of who he was and where it happened. Despite what Homey said last week, I still think this guy faces execution for treason.

[Sooner24]

Hate crime? Only white males who kill gays or minorities can be charged with a hate crime. You been living under a rock or something?

What was I thinking? :O

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

charges were 13 counts of pre-meditated murder. No inclusion of terrorism nor hate crimes. as expected.

[Frozen Sooner]

Might be useful for some of you to look up the definition of "hate crime."

Hint: It is not a hate crime for a person of one race/religion/whatever to kill a person of another race/religion/whatever absent a certain desired result or motivation.

[Frozen Sooner]

Here's the Federal hate crime statute:

18 U.S.C. § 245.

(b) Whoever, whether or not acting under color of law, by force or threat of force willfully injures, intimidates or interferes with, or attempts to injure, intimidate or interfere with--
(1) any person because he is or has been, or in order to intimidate such person or any other person or any class of persons from--
(A) voting or qualifying to vote, qualifying or campaigning as a candidate for elective office, or qualifying or acting as a poll watcher, or any legally authorized election official, in any primary, special, or general election;
(B) participating in or enjoying any benefit, service, privilege, program, facility, or activity provided or administered by the United States;
(C) applying for or enjoying employment, or any perquisite thereof, by any agency of the United States;
(D) serving, or attending upon any court in connection with possible service, as a grand or petit juror in any court of the United States;
(E) participating in or enjoying the benefits of any program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance; or
(2) any person because of his race, color, religion or national origin and because he is or has been--
(A) enrolling in or attending any public school or public college;
(B) participating in or enjoying any benefit, service, privilege, program, facility or activity provided or administered by any State or subdivision thereof;
(C) applying for or enjoying employment, or any perquisite thereof, by any private employer or any agency of any State or subdivision thereof, or joining or using the services or advantages of any labor organization, hiring hall, or employment agency;
(D) serving, or attending upon any court of any State in connection with possible service, as a grand or petit juror;
(E) traveling in or using any facility of interstate commerce, or using any vehicle, terminal, or facility of any common carrier by motor, rail, water, or air;
(F) enjoying the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of any inn, hotel, motel, or other establishment which provides lodging to transient guests, or of any restaurant, cafeteria, lunchroom, lunch counter, soda fountain, or other facility which serves the public and which is principally engaged in selling food or beverages for consumption on the premises, or of any gasoline station, or of any motion picture house, theater, concert hall, sports arena, stadium, or any other place of exhibition or entertainment which serves the public, or of any other establishment which serves the public and (i) which is located within the premises of any of the aforesaid establishments or within the premises of which is physically located any of the aforesaid establishments, and (ii) which holds itself out as serving patrons of such establishments; or
(3) during or incident to a riot or civil disorder, any person engaged in a business in commerce or affecting commerce, including, but not limited to, any person engaged in a business which sells or offers for sale to interstate travelers a substantial portion of the articles, commodities, or services which it sells or where a substantial portion of the articles or commodities which it sells or offers for sale have moved in commerce; or
(4) any person because he is or has been, or in order to intimidate such person or any other person or any class of persons from--
(A) participating, without discrimination on account of race, color, religion or national origin, in any of the benefits or activities described in subparagraphs (1)(A) through (1)(E) or subparagraphs (2)(A) through (2)(F); or
(B) affording another person or class of persons opportunity or protection to so participate; or
(5) any citizen because he is or has been, or in order to intimidate such citizen or any other citizen from lawfully aiding or encouraging other persons to participate, without discrimination on account of race, color, religion or national origin, in any of the benefits or activities described in subparagraphs (1)(A) through (1)(E) or subparagraphs (2)(A) through (2)(F), or participating lawfully in speech or peaceful assembly opposing any denial of the opportunity to so participate--

[TheHumanAlphabet]

Might be useful for some of you to look up the definition of "hate crime."

Hint: It is not a hate crime for a person of one race/religion/whatever to kill a person of another race/religion/whatever absent a certain desired result or motivation.

I think the House and Pelosi et al., would disagree with you.

[soonerscuba]

Might be useful for some of you to look up the definition of "hate crime."
You new here?

[Frozen Sooner]

I think the House and Pelosi et al., would disagree with you.

OK.

The statute is posted above.

Notice that it requires an intent to intimidate or a motivation that someone was exercising a federally protected right.

Do you have a direct quote from Nancy Pelosi stating that she wants to define a hate crime as any act of violence by person of one class against a person of another class absent a desired result or motivation?

[Penguin]

I have no tolerance for intolerance! :mad:

[TheHumanAlphabet]

OK.

The statute is posted above.

Notice that it requires an intent to intimidate or a motivation that someone was exercising a federally protected right.

Do you have a direct quote from Nancy Pelosi stating that she wants to define a hate crime as any act of violence by person of one class against a person of another class absent a desired result or motivation?

Uhhh, the just added gay rights to it. So anytime any non-gay beats up a gay, it'll be a hate crime. How do you KNOW intent unless someone goes "you're a so and so - so I'm beatin' you up..." I think people and DAs and Feds will try to IMPLY intent.

[Frozen Sooner]

Uhhh, the just added gay rights to it. So anytime any non-gay beats up a gay, it'll be a hate crime. How do you KNOW intent unless someone goes "you're a so and so - so I'm beatin' you up..." I think people and DAs and Feds will try to IMPLY intent.

You have not answered the question and managed to do so by assuming your inferences. Good job.

Again, the federal hate crimes statute is above. Tell me where Hasan provably violated that statute and you can make the argument he should be charged with a hate crime. Otherwise you may as well be upset that he hasn't been charged with arson.

Your assertion that DAs will imply intent is simply wrong. If intent is the requisite mens rea to a crime, then it has to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt. You can make a circumstantial case for intent, but you can't just imply that the person had intent and rest.

[yermom]

he'd already gotten poor reviews prior to being shipped to Ft. Hood.

And no, he won't be charged with a hate crime because of who he was and where it happened. Despite what Homey said last week, I still think this guy faces execution for treason.

and they were going to send this guy to Afghanistan?

[Scott D]

maybe they were hoping he'd run to the Taliban so they could execute him there.

[Frozen Sooner]

I'm down with shipping malcontents over to war zones. I'd rather they get shot at than guys that actually like our country.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I'm down with shipping malcontents over to war zones. I'd rather they get shot at than guys that actually like our country.Why would you want them to remain in the Armed Forces at all?

[Frozen Sooner]

Why would you want them to remain in the Armed Forces at all?

Because I don't think someone should be able to renege on their commitment because they don't like the service or are unhappy with the way they're treated.

The original post was a bit tongue-in-cheek. A malcontent who refuses to honor his commitment should finish out his commitment at Ft. Leavenworth.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

The original post was a bit tongue-in-cheek. A malcontent who refuses to honor his commitment should finish out his commitment at Ft. Leavenworth.and, be invoiced for the costs of incarceration to the US taxpayers.(if he is ever released)

[yermom]

maybe they were hoping he'd run to the Taliban so they could execute him there.

that was kinda my thought... give him enough rope

[Scott D]

and, be invoiced for the costs of incarceration to the US taxpayers.(if he is ever released)

I'd be assuming (not that willie favor is going to see this post) that Froz would be more referring to the guys that go AWOL or shoot themselves in an effort to avoid going overseas whether it be to a combat front or not, than this particular case where the individual should face nothing but a court marshal followed by an execution.

[I Am Right]

Gee, I wonder if Nidal Hasan will be charged with a hate crime?

Good grief no, I don't think any protected classes were injured. "What is hate for one is not hate for another."

[47straight]

"participating in or enjoying any benefit, service, privilege, program, facility, or activity provided or administered by the United States"

Processing center for medical examinations.

Step 4; Profit.

[Frozen Sooner]

"participating in or enjoying any benefit, service, privilege, program, facility, or activity provided or administered by the United States"

Processing center for medical examinations.

Step 4; Profit.

Look at the section that's under.

Because of their race, religion, or nationality. Is that the case here?

The prima facie case is not made by showing they were of different races or nationalities or whatever.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

So punching a chinese guy in a welfare line is a hate crime, but just punching a chinese guy is not?

[Frozen Sooner]

So punching a chinese guy in a welfare line is a hate crime, but just punching a chinese guy is not?

No.

Punching a Chinese guy in a welfare line BECAUSE he's Chinese and BECAUSE he's in a welfare line is a hate crime, presumably because the intended result is to intimidate Chinese people from applying for welfare. Punching a Chinese guy in the street is not a hate crime, unless you're punching him because he's Chinese. There's a provision in there for any road used for interstate commerce, which is pretty easily extended to darn near any road.

[Whet]

I sense a 1st year law student.....

[Whet]

Murdering 13 people because they were NOT muslim?

[Frozen Sooner]

Murdering 13 people because they were NOT muslim?

Was that his motivation?

Provably?

If so, then charge him with a hate crime.

I'll admit I haven't had time to read all of the updates on this-has anything he's said or done indicated that he was killing them because of THEIR religion (or lack)? I don't think that simply yelling "Allah Akhbar" makes the grade.

[Frozen Sooner]

I sense a 1st year law student.....

You know, it's not particularly tough to look a statute up, particularly a federal statute. You don't even need a day of law school to do it. Before people go off on a rant about someone being charged or not being charged with a crime, it should behoove them to do some research as to what the relevant statute is.

Beyond that, since the criminal is military personnel and the crime occurred on a military base, there's a jurisdictional question over whether the USC would apply or the UCMJ. I will freely admit to not having any idea when active duty military is subject to one or the other.

[47straight]

Look at the section that's under.

Because of their race, religion, or nationality. Is that the case here?

The prima facie case is not made by showing they were of different races or nationalities or whatever.

Because they were American soldiers.


Now go outline.

[JohnnyMack]

When Froze starts talking all lawyer-like it's like I'm in the middle of watching Legally Blonde.

:D

[yermom]

Because they were American soldiers.


Now go outline.

so was he... if anything, it was treason IMO

[Frozen Sooner]

Because they were American soldiers.


Now go outline.

I am, I am. Constantly.

Don't think occupation falls under the categories there. I guess you could try to make out a case that Hasan's attacks were directed at Americans in general because of their nationality. I think a prosecutor would probably have to prove that he was singling out Americans for that line to work. Not sure.

(b)(1)(C) Looks like it might cover what you're getting at if the intent was to try to keep Americans from enjoying employment as military personnel.

[Frozen Sooner]

so was he... if anything, it was treason IMO

Irrelevant. One can perpetrate a hate crime against one's own group. Think Dave Chappelle.

[yermom]

heh.

[Scott D]

Irrelevant. One can perpetrate a hate crime against one's own group. Think Dave Chappelle.

I was thinking more along the lines of Uncle Ruckus from The Boondocks, but whatever floats your boat ;)