Light at the end of the tunnel, or an oncoming train?

[prrriiide]

How does next year's OL pan out? Still not a whole lot of returning experience. At this point, I don't know that what you can call what the guys are getting this season "experience" at least not in a good way. They are experienced in regressing. Hell, most of them aren't even playing in their natural position. Do some of the young turks bring it? Aladenoye? Will Irwin RS? Looking at next year's OL, there are some older players that seriously need a rectocraniotomy. But at the same time, I can't believe that there is anyone on the bench better than this starting group, or they SURELY would have been playing by now...wouldn't they? That's what's giving me the shivers.

The roster should look something like this:

Lepak - 6-4 275 Sr
Frazier - 6-2 275 Sr
Stephenson - 6-6 285 Jr
Habern - 6-3 288 So
Chambers - 6-2 180(?) So
Brandon - 6-7 310 Sr
Jeffries - 6-4 309 Sr
Aladenoye - 6-5 342 So
Evans - 6-5 280 So
Jones - 6-7 297 Jr
Good - 6-6 291 Jr
Reed - 6-6 274 So
Vinson - 6-8 350 Sr
Williams - 6-5 270 Fr
Shead - 6-4 320 Fr
Irwin - 6-5 315 Fr
Thompson - 6-5 290 Fr

[Curly Bill]

I think the OL will be better, but still not especially good.

[oksoonerdave]

We should be better and win a couple of more games (including the RRR). Actually, I think we will win the South again but may have a problem in the Championship game. The Big XII teams that we have to worry about will be KSU and Nebbish. Baylor should have their QB back and they could cause some ruffles.

You can bet that the O-line will be having a more intense conditioning program in the off season. We have some quality folks in there.

[madillsoonerfan5353]

They need to learn to get a push and run block??:(

[sooner59]

I have a hard time believing that we "won't" be better on the o-line. HOW MUCH better is the big question mark.

[silverwheels]

Probably won't be much better, but the added depth from the 2010 class will help. That is, unless they all leave the team, like so many of our OL recruits like to do. Why? I don't know, but it's disconcerting.

Looking at the schedule and who we'll probably have coming back next year, I think we're looking at anywhere from 7-5 worst case to 10-2. Luckily, though, the rest of the South will be replacing some key players as well. And by "rest of the South", I mean Texas and OSU. Baylor, Tech, and A&M won't be too far behind, though.

[sooner59]

I honestly think that if we win @Cincy next year, we may win out. Even with what we have returning. Texas-new QB, OSU-new QB....none of the rest concern me. I may be naive but I wouldn't be shocked to be in the title race at the end of the year even with a team far less talented than the 2008 team. I'm mostly basing it off of our schedule and the weakness of the teams will we play.

[OKC-SLC]

Until our coaches can appropriately evaluate, train, coach, and maintain talent on the offensive line, we will struggle there.

[prrriiide]

Until our coaches can appropriately evaluate, train, coach, and maintain talent on the offensive line, we will struggle there.

See, that's what I don't understand. James Patton had impeccable credentials and a killer reputation as an OL coach when he was hired. What happened? It isn't like these guys haven't been in the system or something. They should know what is expected and the type of committment required to play at the level that is expected at OU. Yet they have not shown improvement in the mental aspect of the game yet this season. We're 9 games into the season, and we can't go through a game without momentum and drive killing penalties on the OL. Our QB is running for his life every time he drops back, and our receivers don't have time to get open before he has to throw it away. Our RBs are mostly gaining yards by grit and determination. As bad as all of those things are, they pale in comparison to the blown blocking assignments that doom plays even as the ball is snapped. This debacle can't all be on the shoulders of the players. There is something amiss on the coaching staff that has allowed this to occur.

I don't know if it means (in the words of Bobby Knight) running them until they f-ing puke, or what the solution is. But someone has failed to get the OL motivated and mentally ready to play every game this season. I lay that at the feet of the position coach: Patton.

I understand injuries. But how in the name of all that is holy did we develop such a drop-off between last year's starters and their back-ups, who are starting now? How has TW regressed from 1st round pick to the level of possibly being un-draftable after this atrocious season? He was allegedly the best OLman Coach Wilson has seen at OU.

Until those issues are addressed, I don't see the OL play improving to conference championship level next season.

If, as someone earlier suggested, we manage to win a conference championship next season due to a weak/favorable schedule and the rebuilding processes of other schools, I am quite certain that our string of BCS embarrassments will lengthen unless there is dramatic improvement in the OL play. That would be a very tough pill to swallow.

[IronHorseSooner]

How does next year's OL pan out? Still not a whole lot of returning experience. At this point, I don't know that what you can call what the guys are getting this season "experience" at least not in a good way. They are experienced in regressing. Hell, most of them aren't even playing in their natural position. Do some of the young turks bring it? Aladenoye? Will Irwin RS? Looking at next year's OL, there are some older players that seriously need a rectocraniotomy. But at the same time, I can't believe that there is anyone on the bench better than this starting group, or they SURELY would have been playing by now...wouldn't they? That's what's giving me the shivers.

The roster should look something like this:

Lepak - 6-4 275 Sr
Frazier - 6-2 275 Sr
Stephenson - 6-6 285 Jr
Habern - 6-3 288 So
Chambers - 6-2 180(?) So
Brandon - 6-7 310 Sr
Jeffries - 6-4 309 Sr
Aladenoye - 6-5 342 So
Evans - 6-5 280 So
Jones - 6-7 297 Jr
Good - 6-6 291 Jr
Reed - 6-6 274 So
Vinson - 6-8 350 Sr
Williams - 6-5 270 Fr
Shead - 6-4 320 Fr
Irwin - 6-5 315 Fr
Thompson - 6-5 290 Fr

We also have Austin Woods, the #3 Center in the nation coming next year. I think he is 6'5" and about 300. I also believe that they are redshirting Vinson and Alandoye, as they view these guys as "projects" who need better conditioning.

We MUST get better, and that is an understatement. I believe there was a philosophical difference between Coach Stoops and KW as to the entire OL. I honestly believe that these guys are playing out of position, and not to their natural strengths. I thought that Cory Brandon was a natural LT, Jarvis Jones was more of a guard, and Jeffries was a tackle. Good was supposedly recruited as more of a run blocker, but is being asked to do a lot pass blocking. Habern might be the only guy doing what he was recruited to do. Next year, the OL SHOULD look like this, if they are playing where they would best succeed:

LT: Brandon
LG: Good
C: Habern
RG: Jones
RT: Jeffries


I also agree that the Big XII and national landscapes will be so weak next year, particularly due to the rookie salary cap and guys bolting to the NFL, that by process of elimination, we should be in the discussion for both next year.

[goingoneight]

Vinson is a guy who came in like THA LOAD. JUCO guy with the mass of a typical blind-side tackle, but he's not anywhere near in shape to play immediately like THA LOAD.

Redshirting and scout-teaming does wonders for "projects." See: Sam Bradford, Travis Lewis, etc. If he doesn't have a good winter and get in on the two deep for the starting LT job next year, he'll be viewed as a big disappointment, seeing as how they've offered three years (reshirt w/ 2 playing years ala THA LOAD) scholarship to him.

I think it will be Vinson, Good, Habern, Evans and Jones as starters... but as this year proves, it may not be enough. We need eight or nine solid guys to put it together as we close out 2009 and head into 2010.

[westbrooke]

There are multiple OL conversations going at the moment (and this doesn't deserve it's own thread) so I'm not sure where is the best place to post this open question:

Do you think we sold out in 2008 for the championship as far as future development goes? There are a lot of suggestions that our recruiting and development have failed and that we should be capable of just plugging in backups up and down the line despite the numerous injuries on top of the graduation turnover, and I just don't think that's realistic in any case with the hits we've taken.

But I'm specifically interested in perspectives on how we handled this transition. I know our recruiting classes have been highly regarded; players already mentioned like Good, Habern, and Woods could have named their school. But even with Good and Habern (among others) on campus last year, we went almost exclusively with the experienced line that we knew would graduate wholesale. I tend to think we did this, not out of arrogance for future success, but because we were throwing the kitchen sink at winning it all last year. What does the board think?

[TheUnnamedSooner]

THA LOAD.



Did you just shat your pants?

[rawlingsHOH]

Track record suggests we will rebound pretty well.

2002, 2006.

[cvsooner]

There are multiple OL conversations going at the moment (and this doesn't deserve it's own thread) so I'm not sure where is the best place to post this open question:

Do you think we sold out in 2008 for the championship as far as future development goes? There are a lot of suggestions that our recruiting and development have failed and that we should be capable of just plugging in backups up and down the line despite the numerous injuries on top of the graduation turnover, and I just don't think that's realistic in any case with the hits we've taken.

But I'm specifically interested in perspectives on how we handled this transition. I know our recruiting classes have been highly regarded; players already mentioned like Good, Habern, and Woods could have named their school. But even with Good and Habern (among others) on campus last year, we went almost exclusively with the experienced line that we knew would graduate wholesale. I tend to think we did this, not out of arrogance for future success, but because we were throwing the kitchen sink at winning it all last year. What does the board think?

No, I don't think we sold out. Brandon and Simmons both had fairly extensive playing time from last year, and also, you had a number of seniors who've given four years to the program. Allowing them the majority of snaps was the right thing to do...and last year, a number of games were closer than we thought. I don't believe the coaching staff thought last year's D, especially through the first ten games or so, could be counted on to stop anybody. So we left the 'o' on the field to rack up points.

[TXBOOMER]

I don't know why it would be better. There has been no noticable improvement this year. Williams and Eldridge and Simmons will be gone so I don't know how it could do anything but get worse. I don't know of us getting any commits from any Phil Loadholt type JUCO players. I think just like this year it will be pretty good aganst poor defenses and pretty bad against good defenses.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

Ben Habern gets better every week.

Not leaps and bounds, mind you. But the kid has the makings of a damn good lineman. This season's experience will be HUGE for that young man. And with a solid foundation at the center position, you can build from there.

[Scott D]

if there is a train, I humbly ask that someone get the offense off of the field before it arrives.

[NorthernIowaSooner]

Ben Habern gets better every week.

Not leaps and bounds, mind you. But the kid has the makings of a damn good lineman. This season's experience will be HUGE for that young man. And with a solid foundation at the center position, you can build from there.

i think jon cooper was a good example of this. solid center that improved consistently. hes one of my favorite Sooner lineman ever and looks like habern will be a solid replacement for him for the next few years

[RedstickSooner]

if there is a train, I humbly ask that someone get the offense off of the field before it arrives.

....because Lord knows this line couldn't stop it.

Sorry. I don't like to disparage our players, but couldn't resist after Scott's post.

[goingoneight]

We'll have if anything a lot of experience back next year. Not experience winning, but a lot of quality game experience. We need to develop a plan on the blind side, though. As I suggested above, hopefully Vinson or Stephenson steps up to the plate. Preferably both of them.

[effay]

I don't see how our O line could possibly be better next year unless some of the incoming freshmen are ridiculously mature. As far as I can tell, it's just going to be the patchwork we have this year, but minus our 2 best guys (Brody and Trent). That's not really a recipe for success.

Maybe the patchwork will mature though. I sure hope so.

[rawlingsHOH]

I don't see how our O line could possibly be better next year unless some of the incoming freshmen are ridiculously mature. As far as I can tell, it's just going to be the patchwork we have this year, but minus our 2 best guys (Brody and Trent). That's not really a recipe for success.
Maybe the patchwork will mature though. I sure hope so.
That recipe seemed to work in both 2002 and 2006.

2002, lost two best players Frank Romero and Howard Duncan, yet improved significantly.

2006, lost two best players Chris Chester and Davin Joseph, again improved.

Nothing is for sure, but I'm not going to be the least bit surprised if they play well in 2010.