i have been thinking this for a while...

[soonerinabilene]

tell me what your opinion is. i think the no huddle is a good offense when you have experienced guys running it across the board. we have 2 lineman, a wr, and 2 running backs that have it. that leaves 6 new guys out there. the line has no time to make blocking adjustments, the wrs have no time to look for hot routes, and landry is staring at the sidelines instead of looking to see where the defenders are. they get the call, snap it, and go. imo, if we called the play in the huddle, let the line get set, look around for blitzers, make their calls, and then get a chance to catch their breath and regroup after the play is over, it qould eliminate a lot of missed blocks. it would allow landry to get a better feel of what the d is gonna do, and it would stop 30 second 3 and outs. we just dont have the experience to run a no huddle all the time, i think, and thhe coaches need to adjust to what they can handle at this point. thoughts?

[JLEW1818]

short and sweet

we don't have the personnel to run the no huddle offense

we did last year


we run a different style no huddle this year. Last year we ran play-action a lot, b/c we had a tight end who could play in the NFL at the moment

this year the TE spot is irrelevant

the offensive line is not mature enough

i mean hell, the first play of the season against Byu, didn't we false start?

[delhalew]

When our no huddle works it's a thing of beauty. I think ya'll are right...it just ain't working under current circumstances.

[JLEW1818]

Just an example

Phil Loadholt, remember him?

He is currently the starting right tackle for the Vikings, blocking for Adrian Peterson, and Brett Favre

Duke, 2nd team for the Panthers?



now compare what we got now

[Blues1]

I love The "No Huddle" -- but it seems it's Not Working for this 2009 team and personal - Scoring Only 3 points what More Information do you need.....??
Something is Broken.....! ~ Lets Fix it....

[Tulsa_Fireman]

tell me what your opinion is. i think the no huddle is a good offense when you have experienced guys running it across the board. we have 2 lineman, a wr, and 2 running backs that have it. that leaves 6 new guys out there. the line has no time to make blocking adjustments, the wrs have no time to look for hot routes, and landry is staring at the sidelines instead of looking to see where the defenders are. they get the call, snap it, and go. imo, if we called the play in the huddle, let the line get set, look around for blitzers, make their calls, and then get a chance to catch their breath and regroup after the play is over, it qould eliminate a lot of missed blocks. it would allow landry to get a better feel of what the d is gonna do, and it would stop 30 second 3 and outs. we just dont have the experience to run a no huddle all the time, i think, and thhe coaches need to adjust to what they can handle at this point. thoughts?

You don't need time to make blocking adjustments. Blocking assignments are simple things for the most part. Watch some film and check out how our problems on the front are a lot more deeply rooted than making an assignment check at the line of scrimmage.

Play in question, first half. Line checks into a slide/shift left zone pass pro. Center chips the BACKSIDE A gap (Suh) and extends into the zone, backside guard engages the DT in A gap. So backside guard not only has the chip to help, he's engaging downhil. Starting out of the gate with position on the DT. (a good idea to contain Suh with a single set, IF you can execute) As any good DT will do, he maintains gap priority, comes off the chip and moves upfield. The backside guard literally whiffs his block. No testament to the skill and power of Suh. No excuse as to trying to set the reach block. No reason not to with the chip and shift literally putting him on a plate to get SMOKED. Suh played it correctly, and had the backside played it correctly, that top 5 draft pick would either be picking grass out of his facemask or been so wadded up in the pile as to be no threat. Instead, he earns a pressure on the QB for the simple reason that the backside guard missed a textbook downblock, one you learn in grade school.

Now take that and apply it to the season. That's been happening ALL YEAR from all across the line. One of the actual few bright spots on the season was of all people, Brody Eldridge. But you could see his lack of mass in driving through the blocks he would beautifully set. So is that an issue of not having time to pick up a blocking assignment or change in assignment?

Nope. You don't need time. The front gives you your read as soon as you get your assignment. Execution is the issue. And it's affecting the program so much that it's trainwrecking EVERY aspect of the game, including defense through the lack of execution on offense.

[PLaw]

Agree. The biggest transgressions is an OC knocking down $400-500K/year that is forcing his system on players that are not ready for it. It's a big strike when a coach cannot adapt his sytem to the personnel he has on his roster.

WILSON GETS AN "F" for this season.

Bummer

[oksoonerdave]

Agree. The biggest transgressions is an OC knocking down $400-500K/year that is forcing his system on players that are not ready for it. It's a big strike when a coach cannot adapt his sytem to the personnel he has on his roster.

WILSON GETS AN "F" for this season.

Bummer

There was another coach that did just that. His name was Callahan.

[westcoast_sooner]

You don't need time to make blocking adjustments. Blocking assignments are simple things for the most part. Watch some film and check out how our problems on the front are a lot more deeply rooted than making an assignment check at the line of scrimmage.

Play in question, first half. Line checks into a slide/shift left zone pass pro. Center chips the BACKSIDE A gap (Suh) and extends into the zone, backside guard engages the DT in A gap. So backside guard not only has the chip to help, he's engaging downhil. Starting out of the gate with position on the DT. (a good idea to contain Suh with a single set, IF you can execute) As any good DT will do, he maintains gap priority, comes off the chip and moves upfield. The backside guard literally whiffs his block. No testament to the skill and power of Suh. No excuse as to trying to set the reach block. No reason not to with the chip and shift literally putting him on a plate to get SMOKED. Suh played it correctly, and had the backside played it correctly, that top 5 draft pick would either be picking grass out of his facemask or been so wadded up in the pile as to be no threat. Instead, he earns a pressure on the QB for the simple reason that the backside guard missed a textbook downblock, one you learn in grade school.

Now take that and apply it to the season. That's been happening ALL YEAR from all across the line. One of the actual few bright spots on the season was of all people, Brody Eldridge. But you could see his lack of mass in driving through the blocks he would beautifully set. So is that an issue of not having time to pick up a blocking assignment or change in assignment?

Nope. You don't need time. The front gives you your read as soon as you get your assignment. Execution is the issue. And it's affecting the program so much that it's trainwrecking EVERY aspect of the game, including defense through the lack of execution on offense.

Fireman,

Always enjoy your posts here - this one is very timely. Question for you. In your opinion, is the trouble with the OL more a question of experience, or are the Sooners just not getting the kind of recruits in that can execute? Or both?
Thanks.

[goingoneight]

So we should change our philosophy past mid-season at the risk of killing player development for the future?

Didn't Coach Stoops arrive with a mentality that "you play through the tough times, you grow in the system, day to day, month to month, year to year... no excuses?" yeah... We coughed up some tough losses in 1999 and in 2005... But did we not get back to Heisman banquets and Championship contention just as Stoops suggested?

[Tulsa_Fireman]

In your opinion, is the trouble with the OL more a question of experience, or are the Sooners just not getting the kind of recruits in that can execute? Or both?

It's not experience. These guys have been working the front long enough to be past any sort of jitters or any lack of communication between each other. From what I've seen, in all honesty it looks like our boys just don't see it. It moves too fast for 'em. The classic example is how since BYU, everyone at one time or another brings that gutshot blitz from the ILB. It's a real straight forward block to pick up as all that's required is to maintain priority to the inside. Tackles downblock to B, guards to A, so on and so forth. Disengage the DE and if all else fails, get a chip on the LB so he's not full speed ahead when he blows the gap. We can't even do that well. We've been getting better, but we still ain't there.

We're young and where we're not young, we're not that good. It's a recipe for disaster. The hope was for our youth to be able to step up and fill the gaps. Maybe it was too much to ask.

[westcoast_sooner]

It's not experience. These guys have been working the front long enough to be past any sort of jitters or any lack of communication between each other. From what I've seen, in all honesty it looks like our boys just don't see it. It moves too fast for 'em. The classic example is how since BYU, everyone at one time or another brings that gutshot blitz from the ILB. It's a real straight forward block to pick up as all that's required is to maintain priority to the inside. Tackles downblock to B, guards to A, so on and so forth. Disengage the DE and if all else fails, get a chip on the LB so he's not full speed ahead when he blows the gap. We can't even do that well. We've been getting better, but we still ain't there.

We're young and where we're not young, we're not that good. It's a recipe for disaster. The hope was for our youth to be able to step up and fill the gaps. Maybe it was too much to ask.

Thanks - maybe more to the point, what's your outlook? Obviously, if there are guys there who do get it and others who don't you have to put in new guys that will eventually get it. Any thoughts about that? Is it scheme, or simple lack of talent or both? Has all the turnover on the line this year had such an impact to keep the overall line play from developing, or is it a lost cause?

Thanks.

[soonermix]

it seems to me that the no huddle is nice when you are running plays faster than the defense can adjust to.
it takes away from that when we go up to the line of scrimmage look at things turn around look at the sideline then run a play. it feels like we are being too conservative at times when we should just run the play called and see what happens. but then again who the heck am i, i am not getting payed for this.
that is just my opinion i could be wrong

[westbrooke]

Tulsa_Fireman, that was awesome. Thanks for schooling us.


it seems to me that the no huddle is nice when you are running plays faster than the defense can adjust to.
it takes away from that when we go up to the line of scrimmage look at things turn around look at the sideline then run a play. it feels like we are being too conservative at times when we should just run the play called and see what happens. but then again who the heck am i, i am not getting payed for this.
that is just my opinion i could be wrong

As I understand it, we're not running the no huddle specifically to speed up the snap and get more plays, though that is a consequence. The other utility is that we are able to trap defensive personnel on the field and then adjust our playcalling to take advantage of mismatches. We get to the line fast so the defense has to set, then we call in a play to take best advantage of the current configuration on the field. Clearly we don't have the same athletes on the field as last year that made the payoff so easy to see, but I think this was a factor, for instance, in the way we repeatedly moved Broyles around and targeted him against KU.

[TMcGee86]

Here's a good point traber brought up yesterday that I (begrudgingly) agree with.

In general, I think I agree with fireman, but the problem we have this year is that we have moved so many guys around, most of them in game, that you get a guy who started out at RT, then moves to LG, then back to RG, and by the time he's at RG, he's having to think "Okay, what's my assignment if I'm RG? What's the difference from when I was at RT, or LG?" And by the time he's figured it out, we are snapping the ball.

Sure the reads are simple by themselves, but when you have to move around it becomes much harder to remember what you are supposed to do.

To me, this leads to the exact problems we've seen this year.

1. False starts. i.e. thinking too much about assignments and forgetting the simple things like the snap count.

and

2. Paralysis by analysis. Doing exactly like Fireman said and whiffing on blocks because you've go so much in your head that you freeze up when the ball is snapped and miss simple blocks because you are thinking too much.




Another bigger problem this exposes is why a team like OU cannot just trot out a backup RG, or RT, or LT, when someone gets hurt. Why are we forced to move Eldrige from Tight End, to Tackle, to Guard, to Center. Why are we forced to move Williams and Brandon around instead of just moving up the second string guy when someone gets hurt.

Obviously that is the bigger, nastier, underlying problem that I don't think anyone wants to think about. Why is our OL recruiting and evaluation this bad?

[goingoneight]

Graduation, transfers, suspensions and dismissals going into the season. Injuries and inexperience, combined with personnel shuffling against a tough schedule and little experience at the skill positions did us in offensively.