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View Full Version : Man gets rear-ended and dies of heart attack. Family wants manslaughter charges!


Penguin
10/28/2009, 10:01 AM
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7083808



It's time these fender-bender killers be brought to justice! :D
Jacie
10/28/2009, 11:09 AM
I think they are reaching on this one.
Frozen Sooner
10/28/2009, 11:17 AM
Hm. He's certainly civilly liable under the eggshell plaintiff rule. Defendant must take the plaintiff as he finds him.

Need to take a look at the Texas homicide statute.
Frozen Sooner
10/28/2009, 11:28 AM
Probably can't get the conviction here.

Texas Penal Code § 19 defines both manslaughter and negligent homicide and appends two different standards of mens rea. Under manslaughter, it's recklessly causes the death of another. Under negligent, it's criminally negligently causes the death of another.

Negligence assumes a reasonable man standard. The mens rea of negligence should be applied to both components of actus reus: negligently causes and negligently death of another.

I think you're going to have a hard time convincing a jury that a reasonable man would know that the result of the fender-bender would be a death.

I guess the prosecutor could generalize the fender-bender to the class of all wrecks and argue that the result of driving negligently is reasonably the death of another.
StoopTroup
10/28/2009, 12:19 PM
I always try to hit teh young punks.
iwannabelikesam
10/28/2009, 12:51 PM
Don't beat yourself up over this. It's not your fault. Dammit, that dude was old. That's what old people do. They die.
Breadburner
10/28/2009, 04:49 PM
If thats all took to get him to kick...His next good bowel movement more than likely would have done it.....
Sooner_Havok
10/28/2009, 04:53 PM
Hm. He's certainly civilly liable under the eggshell plaintiff rule. Defendant must take the plaintiff as he finds him.

Need to take a look at the Texas homicide statute.

I implied the eggshell plaintiff rule, but did not mention it by name...lost me some points there. :mad:
I Am Right
10/28/2009, 05:20 PM
Don't beat yourself up over this. It's not your fault. Dammit, that dude was old. That's what old people do. They die.

Death Panel? Anyone.
Sooner_Havok
10/28/2009, 05:35 PM
Death Panel? Anyone.

I wish this board had a Death Panel sometimes...
VeeJay
10/28/2009, 05:37 PM
Heh. You said "rear-ended."
12
10/28/2009, 05:57 PM
CONSARNIT, VeeJay... you beat me to it.
Frozen Sooner
10/28/2009, 06:43 PM
I implied the eggshell plaintiff rule, but did not mention it by name...lost me some points there. :mad:

Seriously? You lost points because you couldn't come up with specific name "eggshell plaintiff" when you correctly cited a case applying it and correctly applied it to the facts?
Sooner_Havok
10/28/2009, 08:19 PM
Seriously? You lost points because you couldn't come up with specific name "eggshell plaintiff" when you correctly cited a case applying it and correctly applied it to the facts?

Sadly
Okla-homey
10/29/2009, 05:33 AM
Hm. He's certainly civilly liable under the eggshell plaintiff rule. Defendant must take the plaintiff as he finds him.



First off, nothing is certain here. This is not even close to being a sure thing and causation is a big problem for the plaintiff. This extortion attempt will work, if, and only if, the plaintiff can adequately link the heart failure to the wreck. I'm quite certain there are plenty of cardiologists who will opine the guy was a dead man walking at the time of the accident and the wreck had nothing to do with it.
12
10/29/2009, 06:00 AM
I'm quite certain there are plenty of cardiologists who will opine the guy was a dead man walking

Are not we all?
Frozen Sooner
10/29/2009, 07:21 AM
First off, nothing is certain here. This is not even close to being a sure thing and causation is a big problem for the plaintiff. This extortion attempt will work, if, and only if, the plaintiff can adequately link the heart failure to the wreck. I'm quite certain there are plenty of cardiologists who will opine the guy was a dead man walking at the time of the accident and the wreck had nothing to do with it.

I thought nothing was certain? ;)

You are correct. I should have said "Assuming that the heart attack resulted from the crash, he is certainly civilly liable under the eggshell plaintiff rule."

I was more speaking to the defense that the heart attack was an unexpected result of a crash while assuming that the shock and surprise of the crash is what caused his ticker to go kerflooey.
LilSooner
10/29/2009, 07:26 AM
I thought nothing was certain? ;)

You are correct. I should have said "Assuming that the heart attack resulted from the crash, he is certainly civilly liable under the eggshell plaintiff rule."

I was more speaking to the defense that the heart attack was an unexpected result of a crash while assuming that the shock and surprise of the crash is what caused his ticker to go kerflooey.

Stoopid noob lawyers.
Okla-homey
10/29/2009, 08:01 AM
I thought nothing was certain? ;)

You are correct. I should have said "Assuming that the heart attack resulted from the crash, he is certainly civilly liable under the eggshell plaintiff rule."

I was more speaking to the defense that the heart attack was an unexpected result of a crash while assuming that the shock and surprise of the crash is what caused his ticker to go kerflooey.

Let this be a lesson to you...what with finals approaching. Think. Then write. Answer the question presented in terms of each element of the crime or tort. That way, you won't lose points. "IRAC"
JohnnyMack
10/29/2009, 08:16 AM
Great. Now we need a politics forum AND a lawyerin' forum.
stoopified
10/29/2009, 09:41 AM
Great. Now we need a politics forum AND a lawyerin' forum.My thoughts too.Am I the only non-lawyer or doctor on this board?
JohnnyMack
10/29/2009, 10:08 AM
My thoughts too.Am I the only non-lawyer or doctor on this board?

Must be. I'm both.

Loser.
Okla-homey
10/29/2009, 11:26 AM
My thoughts too.Am I the only non-lawyer or doctor on this board?

naw, Froze is a still padewan lawyer. He doesn't get his full Jedi powers for three years.
Howzit
10/29/2009, 12:10 PM
Don't beat yourself up over this. It's not your fault. Dammit, that dude was old. That's what old people do. They die.

Old people also do other old people.
StoopTroup
10/29/2009, 12:12 PM
My thoughts too.Am I the only non-lawyer or doctor on this board?

I'm just a **** stirring Union Laborer Communist who voted for Reagan and G.H. Bush.
Howzit
10/29/2009, 12:13 PM
hippie.
SoonerKnight
10/29/2009, 06:23 PM
I agree except the driver hit them twice and the old man was on the side board of the pick up when the driver drove off. Now, the old man was on the side board of the pick up if the driver knew he was there then he endagered the old man's life and contributed to the death of the old man. A hit and run no such charges but hitting the car twice and then driving off while someone is on the side of your truck. I think there might be a case for something.

Sieber recalled, "I'm like, 'What the heck?' You know? And then the next thing, a couple of minutes later, not even a minute, boom, another one."

Sieber says her father got out to see what happened. He climbed onto the sideboard of the pickup truck that had struck them. Then that driver took off.