PDA

View Full Version : Let's talk Iverson, guys...



the_ouskull
10/27/2009, 06:38 PM
...it's the eve of opening night. I want to come clean about something. I used to love Allen Iverson. Not love, love, but just love. I loved that everybody thought that this hard-nosed, tough son-of-a-b*tch became the poster boy for everything that the suits thought was wrong with the league, when all he did was bust his butt to get to where he was, and play every game like it was his last.

THIS Allen Iverson...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1022362/index.htm

...but THAT Allen Iverson has left the building. That's why I am the way that I am about him now. If he's delusional enough to think that he's the same player now that he was then, then he deserves the disdain. He could make a championship contender a true, true threat... but he couldn't swallow his own ego and accept a diminished role. Now he's playing for Memphis, with 3 other one-on-one type players. (Gay, Randolph, and Mayo.) They say that they're going to have enough shots to go around... and their preseason even backs them up... a little bit.

But, I don't think I'm wrong about the man that Allen Iverson is NOW. I certainly hope that I am, but I don't THINK that I am.

Do you think that I am?

the_ouskull

JLEW1818
10/27/2009, 07:48 PM
CANCER

:D

starclassic tama
10/27/2009, 09:12 PM
you must really be bored skull. the other 14 iverson threads aren't enough? how about a thread highjack: your pick to win the 2010 NBA title.

the boston celtics. too deep, and not over the hill quite yet. not to mention suffocating on D.

the_ouskull
10/28/2009, 12:47 AM
They're losing Big Baby for a while, which is going to have long-term effects on them. I don't want to pick a team right now. I don't like anybody but the Lakers enough to go out on a limb, and I don't like the Lakers, period. Lol. Give me a month.

And this Iverson thread is one that a homer like you may like... Read the article before you assume this was just another Tell The Truth About Iverson (only to watch the morons deny it) thread.

the_ouskull

Collier11
10/28/2009, 02:23 PM
I guess Iverson isnt quite the bad guy you all try to make him out to be, Seems very respected Rip Hamilton agrees with him

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4602452

JLEW1818
10/28/2009, 02:38 PM
the only reason i somewhat like Rip, is what he did to duke in college!!!

Collier11
10/28/2009, 02:49 PM
Jlew, you are the opposite of a bandwagon fan, you are a bandwagon hater. You hate all the teams/athletes that everyone else hates, loser! :D

the_ouskull
10/28/2009, 05:45 PM
Since you still haven't read it, the article I posted is a very positive article about Iverson, and why I liked him as much as I did, as long as I did, before he became all about himself on the court... I appreciate what he does for the community-at-large off the court, believe me. I admire it, even.

This isn't about that. A.C. Green was a nice guy, man, but I'd rather have Karl Malone.

the_ouskull

Scott D
10/28/2009, 09:20 PM
I guess Iverson isnt quite the bad guy you all try to make him out to be, Seems very respected Rip Hamilton agrees with him

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4602452

it was widely known up here that Curry was fired because the choice was either him or Hamilton and Joe D sided with Hamilton.

Collier11
10/28/2009, 09:22 PM
As he should have, I dont know how, with him being an ex player that he coulda promised Rip and AI that they both were gonna be the guy. That kinda stuff doesnt fly in the Pros and is really shady

Scott D
10/28/2009, 09:25 PM
I still feel that the Billups for Iverson deal was the worst move of Dumars' run as GM so far, well ahead of his second worse move the drafting of Darko over Chris Bosh. It's still strange around here with Rip being 'The Man' when that role had been Chauncey's for years.

Collier11
10/28/2009, 10:01 PM
I coulda told you that Bringing in a primary scorer type in Iverson to an offense like the Pistons ran wasnt gonna work

the_ouskull
10/28/2009, 10:28 PM
Bringing in anybody that thinks they're a primary scorer when they no longer are is going to hurt a team.

the_ouskull

JLEW1818
10/28/2009, 11:30 PM
some buddy of mine the other day said AI was a top 10 player of all time

i didn't know who was more dumb, him or Obama????

AI is not even a top 30 player of all time

Collier11
10/29/2009, 12:31 AM
Id say AI is borderline 40-50 range if you are being honest, no higher and no lower

Scott D
10/29/2009, 10:16 AM
I coulda told you that Bringing in a primary scorer type in Iverson to an offense like the Pistons ran wasnt gonna work

I could have told you that getting rid of a point guard for a shooting guard and putting another shooting guard at the point guard position wasn't going to work. And hell, despite winning last night the situation isn't any better since we've got 3 shooting guards for 1 spot and they're paying Ben Gordon too much bank to sit on the bench as a 6th man.

Collier11
10/29/2009, 10:32 AM
I guess we coulda told each other

the_ouskull
10/29/2009, 06:44 PM
I've been telling all of you all of this for a long time now. Why do I have no bards spinning me glorious tales of danger and woe?

the_ouskull

Collier11
10/29/2009, 10:03 PM
So you are saying weve been disagreeing even though we agree? LOL

JLEW1818
10/30/2009, 12:31 PM
we sitting here, i suppose to be franchise player, and we in here talking bout practice

Collier11
10/30/2009, 12:50 PM
whachu know bout practice JLEW?

JLEW1818
10/30/2009, 01:11 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exOxUAntx8I

Collier11
10/30/2009, 01:12 PM
Whachu know bout drankin some beer tomorrow Jlew?!

JLEW1818
10/30/2009, 01:13 PM
me thirsty.. very thirsty

Collier11
10/30/2009, 01:19 PM
Me too, maybe ill join you

JLEW1818
10/30/2009, 01:24 PM
yup, I'll be around!

Collier11
10/30/2009, 01:29 PM
No Sh*t sherlock, you must be drunk already, lol

JLEW1818
10/30/2009, 01:31 PM
haha, bout to head to McAlester

should be in Norman by high noon

start sipping about 1

JLEW1818
10/30/2009, 01:32 PM
Deans BBQ was pretty damn good

I'll see how his fajitas are

Collier11
10/30/2009, 01:42 PM
haha, bout to head to McAlester

should be in Norman by high noon

start sipping about 1

Ill be up there around 12 or 1, either call me or stop by

Collier11
12/31/2009, 02:39 AM
So the 76ers are 3-4 with Iverson (obviously not counting games after he signed that he missed due to injury), they are 6-18 without him. He has been playing under control and avg 16.7ppg and 4.1 ast in 33.6 mpg while committing only 2.1 turnovers per game.

Now if you remember Skull, in the preseason I said that if he found a team he would improve them, while just a small sample size, would you agree so far that he is doing what is needed of him and not trying to do it all as his reputation would say?

the_ouskull
12/31/2009, 03:19 AM
No.

the_ouskull

Ton Loc
12/31/2009, 08:31 AM
No.

the_ouskull

Shortest skull reply ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

Collier11
12/31/2009, 12:37 PM
he just hates it that AI is doing a good job so far :D

the_ouskull
1/1/2010, 08:31 PM
I wouldn't QUITE say "good job" yet...

One, he's old, so no matter how well he plays, there's the question of whether or not he's going to be able to hold up. It starts with the nagging injuries that have you playing for three games, then sitting for two, then playing for four, then sitting for seven, etc... and, because of his frame and style of play for all of those years, we're seeing him have a great deal of difficulty adjusting to "his new body" now. It's taken him almost two seasons, granted across four teams (but that's also his fault; I mean, Rodney Dangerfield had a more believable broken arm than Iverson did a "hurt back" his last year in Detroit) to get anywhere near the level at which he was playing when he first left Philly for Denver.

But, a few problems that I'm still seeing...

- As his FGA's go up, his percentage goes down. He was shooting 57.7% on 8.7 shots per game in Memphis. Then he gets to Philly, makes himself the number one option again, and starts shooting 44.2% on 12.3 shots per game. Also, consider that he's only shooting 47% at the rim, 20% on shots inside of 10', and 31% on shots from 10-15'. (This isn't as big a deal since he's currently getting to the line 3x a game more than he was for Memphis, but over the course of the season, when his old *ss stops trying to get to the basket as much, look out. Also, his percentage around the rim is another example of his deteriorating physical skills...)

- Although it has also improved since Memphis, his TOR (turnover ratio - the percentage of his possessions that end in a turnover) isn't anything, you know, good, especially for a player of his ability. 9.93 isn't great. Almost 10% of his possessions end in turnovers.

BUT...

- His outside shooting has improved.

It's still far from great, but, at least in his short time in Philly, so far, he is a much-improved shooter from the outside. On shots from 16-23', he's currently shooting 53%, and from behind the arc, he's shooting 40,0% - but don't get too twitterpated. It's not a large sample size on that last one... (2 of 5)

- His percentage of assisted baskets is as high as it's ever been for him, meaning two things, 1) he's relying on his teammates more than in the past, 2) because he likely HAS to. He's currently being assisted on 39.5% of his baskets, which probably explains the increase in his outside shooting percentage.

Ultimately, his AWS (adjusted win score) still isn't very good (he's good for roughly 4.5 wins over the course of a season right now - for comparison's sake, Lebron currently leads the league in that stat with an AWS of 11.35) and his PER (player efficiency rating) of 17.25 places him in the ranks of players like Leandro Barbosa, Mo Williams, Monta Ellis, and (this year's version of) Tony Parker than it does the elite class of players, he's still above the league average - set at 15 every season.

For the record, currently, only two players in the NBA are sitting RIGHT ON the league average of 15, indicating that they are, all-around, the most average players in the league... Andre Miller and Tim Thomas. That'll also give you an idea of the drop-off between 17.25 and 15.00.

Also, according to both PER and aPER, Iverson is no better than the fourth best player on his own team.

But, all of that considered, he's playing better in Philly right now than I thought him capable. But, we're not that many games in, and he's old. Give the stats time to balance out a bit. :D

the_ouskull

Collier11
1/1/2010, 08:35 PM
all I needed to hear :D

the_ouskull
1/2/2010, 06:05 PM
What did I say?

the_ouskull

Collier11
1/2/2010, 09:55 PM
you said more or less that he has done better than you thought he would

Collier11
1/12/2010, 01:35 AM
Philly now 6-7 with AI, 6-18 without...that cant be denied

the_ouskull
1/12/2010, 10:31 AM
Easier stretch of schedule, more home games... healthier posts, too. Brand is rounding back into form. (Check his splits... he hadn't been. Also, check his stats in wins vs. losses. Now check A.I.'s. Look at FG% and assists.)

I hate having to dig this deep. :D

the_ouskull

Collier11
1/12/2010, 02:41 PM
45% from the field, 44 % from three, shots per game only at 10.8pg, he is about the 3rd option and he is playing like it, 2-1 ast-to ration as well :D

Scott D
1/12/2010, 05:23 PM
the offense should be run through Iguodala and Brand first anyhow. Iverson is a 3rd option at best, and only because the Sixers are thin at guard.

seriously, dude shoulda just stayed with football ;)

Collier11
1/13/2010, 01:41 AM
and Im glad that he has finally realized that he isnt gonna be the #1 option anymore. I just hope he sticks to it all season