Why this country is headed down the sewer

[FaninAma]

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/30481512/wall_streets_naked_swindle/print

An excellent article from Rolling Stone
that shows how this country's economy
is built over a cesspool and how a corrupt
banking cartel now controls our and our
children's futures.

It is a long read but well worth it if you
give a damn what happens to your family
.....especially your kids.

[StoopTroup]

They have actually had a few decent articles considering their past attempts at journalism.

[Penguin]

Our entire financial future is on thin ice. We have corrupt banks. Social Security is nothing but a huge, legal Ponzi scheme.

And, scariest of all, one dollar is worth one dollar only because you and I agree that it's worth one dollar. It just seems to me that if a huge group of people/companies got together and refused to accept American money, it could start a domino effect of collapsing our entire financial system.

[tommieharris91]

So "conservatives" are advocating more government? Nice.

[JohnnyMack]

I'm betting Matt Taibbi isn't on the Christmas card list at Goldman Sachs.

[StoopTroup]

Our entire financial future is on thin ice. We have corrupt banks. Social Security is nothing but a huge, legal Ponzi scheme.

And, scariest of all, one dollar is worth one dollar only because you and I agree that it's worth one dollar. It just seems to me that if a huge group of people/companies got together and refused to accept American money, it could start a domino effect of collapsing our entire financial system.

Heh....Penguins talking about "Thin Ice".

Always a classic! :D

[the_ouskull]

There are hundreds of reasons that this country is heading to sh*t. I'll post more of them later. If you don't like long-winded philosophical / sociological discussions about the state of our nation, I'd suggest you leave before I get back. :D

the_ouskull

[JohnnyMack]

Great article. Thanks Fan.

[C&CDean]

5 stars bitches. Although I honestly think this country is headed down the ****ter because of weed, abortions, atheists, the ACLU, partisan politics, political correctness and all the global warming believing faggots.

But hey, that's just me...

[SicEmBaylor]

Excellent.

[JohnnyMack]

5 stars bitches. Although I honestly think this country is headed down the ****ter because of weed, abortions, atheists, the ACLU, partisan politics, political correctness and all the global warming believing faggots.

But hey, that's just me...

That's exactly what them boys at GS want you to worry about.

[C&CDean]

Yeah? Cool.

[King Crimson]

I remember C and C Dean saying swine flu was no big deal. just more media hype. 1000 people in the US are dead, you want to tell the families that's no big deal?

lot of problems in the US, social political and otherwise.....

[Jerk]

But...but....Dear Lear Big Ears has made my 401k go up again!

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h253/etzelo/59fd3d8f.jpg

King Crimson - the mortality rate from pig flu is not any worse than the other influenza virus's...at least not with the current strand.

[OklahomaTuba]

lot of problems in the US, social political and otherwise.....I think people are calling it "hope and change" these days.

Seriously though, we have laws against "counterfeiting", they just don't get enforced on investment products for what ever reason.

[pilobolus]

We need term limits and actual reform of campaign finance to remove corporate influence.

[delhalew]

Unless it's about the next big dingleberry or a sweet Beatles article(a couple months back), you don't want to take anything in that rag too seriously.

Politically speaking, RS is a one trick pony. If it wasn't given to me free. That piece of crap would never be in my house.

That said, it was an interesting article, and quite possible contained some facts. Shocking as that may be.

[sooner ngintunr]

That's exactly what them boys at GS want you to worry about.

One of the brighter ones round here. Dont forget about BS.

its laughable to think that a herb is powerful enough to take down this great nation.:rolleyes:

oh, and KC, 1,000 deaths aint shiit. National emergency powers? give me a break.

remember that Tsunami in Indo? I knew that alot of people died.. I didn't know it was 225,000.

swine flu is a money maker for drug corps, nothing more.

[the_ouskull]

It's going to get worse, not better. Right now, we have the very last of the "good" generation of men and women (mostly men) and are coming up on the Baby Boomers being in charge of almost everything. As more and more necessities become informalities, we will lose more and more of the structure that allowed us to be "America, F*ck Yeah," in the first place. It was okay that we were *ssholes back in the day, 'cause we were *ssholes who were bigger and better than you, and we had our sh*t together.

Now, we are none of the above when being compared to China, for starters. We've started noticeably falling behind other industrialized nations in a number of categories, not the least of which is education. We've sued the discipline right our of our schools, and now we wonder why it's also leaving our homes?

Since at the very latest, the early 90's, education in this country has been more about making the child feel good; boosting their self-esteem, than it has making them a more intelligent, productive member of society. And it's the parents in charge of that "movement" that are going to be wholly in power very soon.

We've created the largest group of youth in the history of this country, and they're a generation of "what's in it for me?" and "who the f*ck are you to tell me what I can, and can't, do? I'm special," and it's going to tear this country apart. American Idol. Do you know why Simon gets to look like the bad guy? 'cause he's the only one honest enough to say what someone close to 98% of those people should have said to them at some point in their lives already... "You. Are. Terrible." It's cute that you have this "dream" of singing, but why don't you pursue it in your sleep?

Instead, we tell little Suzie or Johnny that they're good enough, and, as long as they love themselves, they'll go far, and they keep right on plugging along, until we're "gifted" by interacting with the life of someone like William Hung. When that guy sings in the shower, the curtain tries to hang itself, but nobody ever told him that, and he just kept plugging away.

People, those that are left that are intelligent enough to SEE the truth, are often scared to tell people the truth, because they have this inherent desire not to hurt someone's feelings. You walk around all day with a friend who has a nose hair shooting an inch out of their nostril, or their zipper halfway down, because you're too timid to tell your friend otherwise. You go to the bathroom at dinner and see that you've got a big ol' zit on the tip of your nose. What the f*ck kind of friends do you have that don't point that out?

Americans aren't aggressive anymore, they're passive-aggressive, and therein lies a great, big f*cking difference, people. The land of the over-policed, and the home of the misguided aggression. Sh*t, I never in my life thought that I'd say that I miss Lee Greenwood... I hate "new" America. I had a two-hour talk with a couple of friends of mine from France this evening, and we talked about my leaving the U.S. for a while. I mean, the slogan always was, "America, love it, or leave it," and the last thing that I want to be is hypocritical, but I don't love it here anymore. I like it, and I'm IN love with it, but I don't actually LOVE it. Ya know?

The "freedoms" that we saw real men and women; real Americans, fight and die for, have changed. They're not the same freedoms anymore. They're misinterpretations of the REAL freedoms that made this country great. Bad-mouthing someone, like, say, the f*cking President, isn't necessarily "Freedom of Speech." The "Right to Bear Arms" doesn't QUITE cover your desire to stock a small militia.

America needs some of the tough-love that we used to be famous for. It's a shame that, rather than allow them to accept the consequences of their own misbehaviour, we give corporations that failed a pass; a new lease on pension plans for their C.E.O.'s. We allow kids that flunk to move on up to the next grade anyway, and then wonder why we're seeing a nation of people who think that they're too good to work in fast food, or service.

Illegal immigrants aren't stealing jobs. They're taking the jobs that you've "freedomed" yourself into! (Uh, I mean, "They took errrr joooooobs!")

People think that I'm mean, or that I'm an *sshole, and, while they're not entirely wrong, they're not entirely RIGHT, either. I tend to tell things the way that they are. Yes, I admittedly could break the news a little easier to some people, but for the most part, I try to remain as objective as possible. Could it be that we have just seen our country, "what so proudly we (once) hailed," become so p*ssified that I now SEEM much more harsh by comparison? Not only do I MISS the Red Foreman father stereotype, but I can't wait to BECOME that guy. Eric might have been a f*cked-up hippie kid of the 1970's, but he was going to be a well-adjusted f*cked-up hippie kid, too.

Now, Red would have child services on his *ss 24/7, because his neighbors, rather than mind their own business, would call the cops and then act all non-chalant about it. "We were just trying to help," meanwhile their own daughter is whoring around, and they're each seeing someone behind their spouses back, wondering "where the spark" is.

I miss old America. I want MY M.T.V. YOUR M.T.V. sucks.

the_ouskull

[Rogue]

Heh. I meant to get back before Skull's rant. The article was a well done indictment of the system and, pretty directly, the huge line we crossed when the government bailed out a few companies deemed "too big to fail." I mean it put the WH in the position of objecting to some huge CEO bonuses and leadership of others, but not wanting, nor being able, to micromanage the biggest banks and auto makers.

Crazy times.

I actually get what Skull is saying on this, but I don't necessarily agree. And usually I'm 180 degrees away. This time I admire Skull's take because our goals are the same. We just think the other guy's way of getting there won't work.

Everyone going to the Wednesday night church potluck and respecting the boss because they are the boss just isn't the way it's going to work in the civilian world anymore. Bad mouthing the leaders is EXACTLY why we have freedom of speech, to prevent tyranny in a specific way. And the 2nd amendment is so that we can have an armed militia. Granted, I don't have to stock the whole thing but the distinction is a slight one.

I want the have-nots to have good self-esteem so that if it's ever time for a revolution they believe that they can win. Yes, seriously. Yeah I'm a gun AND peace loving bleeding heart. And I'd like a nation full of self-actualized citizens that believe they can take the power back and make their representatives actually represent THEM.

Skull, you are an *sshole and child abuse is still wrong.

As usual, what I admire about the conservative perspective is how consistent it is.

I get that you are uncomfortable with seeing the end of an era. I'm not convinced it's a bad thing.

[C&CDean]

its laughable to think that a herb is powerful enough to take down this great nation.:rolleyes:

Really? I remember way back in the 70's (when I started every day with a couple bong hits, and continued throughout the day) when our biggest fear was the Russians, thinking "if Russia wants to take this country over, just put some THC in our water supply. We'd be the most apathetic, lazy, who gives a **** nation in the world." And that was back when pot was ****ty. With today's high-octane herb, we'd sit idly by smiling, listening to our ipods, eating some Doritos going "just don't hurt us dudes..." Meh. Weed sucks.


oh, and KC, 1,000 deaths aint shiit. National emergency powers? give me a break.

remember that Tsunami in Indo? I knew that alot of people died.. I didn't know it was 225,000.

swine flu is a money maker for drug corps, nothing more.

I couldn't agree more. There are several strains of influenza that kill a lot more folks than H1N1. But it's the swine flu dangit, and it's gotta be bad!!1!

[the_ouskull]

Heh. I meant to get back before Skull's rant. The article was a well done indictment of the system and, pretty directly, the huge line we crossed when the government bailed out a few companies deemed "too big to fail." I mean it put the WH in the position of objecting to some huge CEO bonuses and leadership of others, but not wanting, nor being able, to micromanage the biggest banks and auto makers.

Crazy times.

I actually get what Skull is saying on this, but I don't necessarily agree. And usually I'm 180 degrees away. This time I admire Skull's take because our goals are the same. We just think the other guy's way of getting there won't work.

Everyone going to the Wednesday night church potluck and respecting the boss because they are the boss just isn't the way it's going to work in the civilian world anymore. Bad mouthing the leaders is EXACTLY why we have freedom of speech, to prevent tyranny in a specific way. And the 2nd amendment is so that we can have an armed militia. Granted, I don't have to stock the whole thing but the distinction is a slight one.

I want the have-nots to have good self-esteem so that if it's ever time for a revolution they believe that they can win. Yes, seriously. Yeah I'm a gun AND peace loving bleeding heart. And I'd like a nation full of self-actualized citizens that believe they can take the power back and make their representatives actually represent THEM.

Skull, you are an *sshole and child abuse is still wrong.

As usual, what I admire about the conservative perspective is how consistent it is.

I get that you are uncomfortable with seeing the end of an era. I'm not convinced it's a bad thing.

I AM an *sshole, although I'm not enitrely certain why you slipped that particular shoe on me the way/when you did...

Also, I identify with liberal lines of thinking much more than conservative. I don't think that either side is doing things "the right way" when given the chance.

The reason that the whole "golden era" family won't work anymore is because we've lost control of ourselves. Nobody can say "no" anymore unless there's something in it for them. "Stop eating those Twinkies or you'll get fat," isn't a threat anymore, 'cause now, if you get fat, someone will put you on T.V. to lose the weight publicly. I don't think that "sit down and shut up" constitutes child abuse anymore than "are you sure I can't have a kiss?" constitutes rape.

But, back before we started telling kids on a daily basis how "special" they were without them attaching any achievement to the praise, we didn't see very many cases of things like O.C.D. or A.D.H.D, or any of those other "diseases" that keep kids from sitting still in their desk, listening to their teacher, and trying to learn something so that they won't be a dumb*ss. Now, if a child wants to be a disturbance in a classroom, teachers have to allow it, because that child is just "expressing themselves differently," and "is very special." It's bullsh*t is what it is.

Praise should follow accomplishments, not attempts. We are "losing" as a country, 'cause we're being run, at a greater and greater percentage, by people who never experienced loss. They got their gold star whether they finished first or last. They got their blue "participation" ribbon, just like the winners did, and nobody got their feelers hurt. It's f*cking ridiculous.

Frankly, Rogue, I don't care HOW we get there, as long as we DO, but right now, regardless of what Toby Keith's latest album says, we're NOT "the best" right now. And, what makes matters worse, in my opinion, is that the problems we are really seeing, aren't problems that we can just fix. We can't just say, for example, no corporal punishment in schools anymore, and then, tomorrow, take it back. Now, kids have no threat of punishment at school... thank you, liberals... act however they choose, and teachers have to try to "teach around them" or whatever. There are so many chicken/egg arguments about why we're so f*cked-up as a country right now, that no one or two are going to nail down the root... just like no one or two people are going to be able to solve it. And, without there being a visceral, tangible, long-term reward in it for them, specifically, don't expect too many people to go along with the first couple of good ideas, either.

the_ouskull

[Half a Hundred]

It's going to get worse, not better. Right now, we have the very last of the "good" generation of men and women (mostly men) and are coming up on the Baby Boomers being in charge of almost everything. As more and more necessities become informalities, we will lose more and more of the structure that allowed us to be "America, F*ck Yeah," in the first place. It was okay that we were *ssholes back in the day, 'cause we were *ssholes who were bigger and better than you, and we had our sh*t together.

I'm not sure what you mean by "necessity becoming informality". I'm also not sure what you mean by being an a-hole who was bigger and better.


Now, we are none of the above when being compared to China, for starters. We've started noticeably falling behind other industrialized nations in a number of categories, not the least of which is education. We've sued the discipline right our of our schools, and now we wonder why it's also leaving our homes?

Our standard of living still obliterates that of the Chinese. They're just exploiting cheap labor (as are "our" corporations). We don't spend half as much on social policy as the rest of the developed world, not to mention we have severe structural differences that renders the US difficult to compare with those countries.

Honestly, it's not a lack of discipline, if you look at the studies. Good kids end up as good adults, and jerk kids as jerk adults, generally. The biggest difference is in the socioeconomic status of the kid - poor good kids are more likely to end up in trouble, and rich jerk kids are more likely to have someone cover their backside when they screw up.


Since at the very latest, the early 90's, education in this country has been more about making the child feel good; boosting their self-esteem, than it has making them a more intelligent, productive member of society. And it's the parents in charge of that "movement" that are going to be wholly in power very soon.

There's no doubting that boosting self-esteem was an education policy that was in vogue for a good chunk of the '90s. It didn't mean that it did a damn thing about the self-esteem meat grinder known as actually being in school at that age. It doesn't matter what your teachers tell you if your peers are still mocking you relentlessly.

The boomers have been in charge for the last 20 years.


We've created the largest group of youth in the history of this country, and they're a generation of "what's in it for me?" and "who the f*ck are you to tell me what I can, and can't, do? I'm special," and it's going to tear this country apart. American Idol. Do you know why Simon gets to look like the bad guy? 'cause he's the only one honest enough to say what someone close to 98% of those people should have said to them at some point in their lives already... "You. Are. Terrible." It's cute that you have this "dream" of singing, but why don't you pursue it in your sleep?

Have you really talked to anyone my age recently? We're usually very happy to help you out - there's a lot of community-mindedness amongst us (like there is in practically any generation of people - humans are social creatures). We're also likely to ask why it is that you want us to do something. If that pisses you off, then maybe there is no good reason for doing it - and that means you're the one with the problem.

If you're basing a cross-section of America off of American Idol, then maybe you might want to recalibrate your sampling methods. There's a reason these people are put on TV - normal people are boring, nutcases are entertaining.


Instead, we tell little Suzie or Johnny that they're good enough, and, as long as they love themselves, they'll go far, and they keep right on plugging along, until we're "gifted" by interacting with the life of someone like William Hung. When that guy sings in the shower, the curtain tries to hang itself, but nobody ever told him that, and he just kept plugging away.

So persistence is a bad thing? Last time I checked, this is a capitalist country - you don't have to be good, you have to sell.


People, those that are left that are intelligent enough to SEE the truth, are often scared to tell people the truth, because they have this inherent desire not to hurt someone's feelings. You walk around all day with a friend who has a nose hair shooting an inch out of their nostril, or their zipper halfway down, because you're too timid to tell your friend otherwise. You go to the bathroom at dinner and see that you've got a big ol' zit on the tip of your nose. What the f*ck kind of friends do you have that don't point that out?

It's kind of arrogant to assume that you can "see" the truth when others can't, isn't it? I'm sure the guy with schizophrenia thinks he sees the truth when others are just blind sheep, doesn't he?

What if the context never arises to point something out without humiliating that person? What kind of friend makes a fool of a person out of indiscretion?


Americans aren't aggressive anymore, they're passive-aggressive, and therein lies a great, big f*cking difference, people. The land of the over-policed, and the home of the misguided aggression. Sh*t, I never in my life thought that I'd say that I miss Lee Greenwood... I hate "new" America. I had a two-hour talk with a couple of friends of mine from France this evening, and we talked about my leaving the U.S. for a while. I mean, the slogan always was, "America, love it, or leave it," and the last thing that I want to be is hypocritical, but I don't love it here anymore. I like it, and I'm IN love with it, but I don't actually LOVE it. Ya know?

What do you mean by Americans being "aggressive"? Last time I checked, we work more hours than any other industrialized country in the world. Our favorite sport is one of the most brutally violent ones imaginable. It took an inference of culpability to get 75% support behind an invasion of a country. I really don't understand this comment.


The "freedoms" that we saw real men and women; real Americans, fight and die for, have changed. They're not the same freedoms anymore. They're misinterpretations of the REAL freedoms that made this country great. Bad-mouthing someone, like, say, the f*cking President, isn't necessarily "Freedom of Speech." The "Right to Bear Arms" doesn't QUITE cover your desire to stock a small militia.

So what you're saying is that freedom needs to be tempered with discretion, and that we've been neglecting this lately. I would agree.


America needs some of the tough-love that we used to be famous for. It's a shame that, rather than allow them to accept the consequences of their own misbehaviour, we give corporations that failed a pass; a new lease on pension plans for their C.E.O.'s. We allow kids that flunk to move on up to the next grade anyway, and then wonder why we're seeing a nation of people who think that they're too good to work in fast food, or service.

Hmm, I'd agree that these are problems, but I'm sure we'd disagree on what the causes of them are.


Illegal immigrants aren't stealing jobs. They're taking the jobs that you've "freedomed" yourself into! (Uh, I mean, "They took errrr joooooobs!")

I agree, to an extent.


People think that I'm mean, or that I'm an *sshole, and, while they're not entirely wrong, they're not entirely RIGHT, either. I tend to tell things the way that they are. Yes, I admittedly could break the news a little easier to some people, but for the most part, I try to remain as objective as possible. Could it be that we have just seen our country, "what so proudly we (once) hailed," become so p*ssified that I now SEEM much more harsh by comparison? Not only do I MISS the Red Foreman father stereotype, but I can't wait to BECOME that guy. Eric might have been a f*cked-up hippie kid of the 1970's, but he was going to be a well-adjusted f*cked-up hippie kid, too.

The funny part, however, was that Red was a paper tiger - lots of talk, little action.

Here's what I wonder - why is it that being purely objective in one's opinion is a good thing, when on the one hand, everyone's perspective is clouded by their own biases, as much as we can try to stop it, and when lots of people won't listen to you out of offense? Sure, you can tell them to just "get over it", but that doesn't mean they're still going to listen to you, and where does that leave you?


Now, Red would have child services on his *ss 24/7, because his neighbors, rather than mind their own business, would call the cops and then act all non-chalant about it. "We were just trying to help," meanwhile their own daughter is whoring around, and they're each seeing someone behind their spouses back, wondering "where the spark" is.

I miss old America. I want MY M.T.V. YOUR M.T.V. sucks.

the_ouskull

Be careful what you read - it's much more difficult to get child services on a parent than you would think. Not to mention, what about that one time when it isn't just a stern dressing down from a caring father - you would rather us let that kid get the s*** beaten out of him than err in being overcautious?

Teenagers are going to fool around. Spouses are going to cheat. This is nothing new.

[StoopTroup]

Really? I remember way back in the 70's (when I started every day with a couple bong hits, and continued throughout the day) when our biggest fear was the Russians, thinking "if Russia wants to take this country over, just put some THC in our water supply. We'd be the most apathetic, lazy, who gives a **** nation in the world." And that was back when pot was ****ty. With today's high-octane herb, we'd sit idly by smiling, listening to our ipods, eating some Doritos going "just don't hurt us dudes..." Meh. Weed sucks.


I totally agree with you Dean...however...I also think that many of us were smart enough to figure out it that you can't use that **** all the time and be productive. I think the stuff has some positive qualities when used properly. Just like Booze...if you drink all the time....your going to have some serious problems down the line.

I think our Country has made way to big of an issue about weed. Meth, Ecstasy and Crack ought to be our numero uno FBI Most Wanted. If your your making it...selling it...or using it...your *** needs to be in prison. Heroin...It's an awful drug but unless you can do something about all these designer drugs...you aren't going to be able to help heroin users kick it.

[BajaOklahoma]

I remember C and C Dean saying swine flu was no big deal. just more media hype. 1000 people in the US are dead, you want to tell the families that's no big deal?

lot of problems in the US, social political and otherwise.....

The N1H1 flu has been around for years. Like all viruses,it mutates a bit every year, which makes it harder to kill off once and for all. Currently we have the N1H1 2009 version.
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/season.htm
Note that the CDC doesn't actually track all deaths from the flu. For years, I've heard 20,000-30,000 people die annually from complications (usually pneumonia). Did you worry last year?
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/fluactivity.htm You can look at the seasonal activity for years.

[Breadburner]

I remember C and C Dean saying swine flu was no big deal. just more media hype. 1000 people in the US are dead, you want to tell the families that's no big deal?

lot of problems in the US, social political and otherwise.....

The regular flu kills 35000 people a year in the US.....Check the numbers on people dying from infections in hospitals from surgical procedures.....Swine Flu=overated.....

[Curly Bill]

I spent two days with the swine flu, I've felt worse from having gas.

[StoopTroup]

I have always felt that it wasn't so much the thought that there was a virus or flu floating around out there that was the big deal...that it's the fact that we have used up our many defenses against them. So many of these medicines have become resistant to the things that make us ill. We have used remedies for quick fixes so many times that we now are faced with the possibility of a flu becoming a pandemic every time one comes around.

They have done movies like "Virus" with Dustin Hoffman where these scenarios have been painted yet we continue to live with the idea that "it won't happen to me".

With Government run Healthcare on some folks agendas...and the fact that we look to the CDC every time one of these pandemics comes around...it would sure seem to me that many folks who think the current state of healthcare is fine....Well...I think they are just plain wrong. Bio-terrorism is one of the real threats upon us. I'd sure like to know that our Healthcare system is prepared for one when it hits and not just for those in the Military.

Call me paranoid...but I think it's a logical to be worried.

[the_ouskull]

I spent two days with the swine flu, I've felt worse from having gas.

But if you spend two days with gas, nobody feels worse than those around you. :D

the_ouskull

Post Script -- Half a Hundred... I think you took the Red Foreman comments a little too seriously. Also, you mention "people your age." How old do you think that I am?

[FaninAma]

Skull, I agree with a lot of what you wrote
but I would distill it down into one phrase:

Lack of accountability.

We don't hold anybody accountable......
especially our leaders who have engaged
in massive dereliction of their duties by
enabling members of the banking cartel to
take over control of our economies.

And whoever weilds economic power rules the
world. Everything else is just minutiae
It wasn't military or moral superiority
that ended the former USSR. It was economic power.
And it will be economic power that enslaves
the world..... Not a political or moral philosophy or
even military power because military power
will always serve those who have the economic
power.

[Half a Hundred]

But if you spend two days with gas, nobody feels worse than those around you. :D

the_ouskull

Post Script -- Half a Hundred... I think you took the Red Foreman comments a little too seriously. Also, you mention "people your age." How old do you think that I am?

Nah, just playing with the concept as you let it out - the funny part about Red was that he always talked about putting a foot up Eric's ***, but when it came to punishment, it never really arose. A stern talking-to was usually sufficient in his mind. Eric's conscience kept him in line most of the time.

From what I've read from you in the past, you're about 5-10 years older than me. Tail-end GenXer.

[StoopTroup]

Is Phil outsourcing the Mods?

http://therawfeed.com/pix/mike_meyers_the_love_guru.jpg

[the_ouskull]

Skull, I agree with a lot of what you wrote
but I would distill it down into one phrase:

Lack of accountability.

I agree completely, but "distilling it," as you put it, removes the origin. If we can find the origin of our country's general apathy, then, maybe, if we get lucky, it's not too late to fix sh*t. Personally, I think it's too late, and that it has been for a while. That's my problem. I hate seeing what we're becoming...

the_ouskull

[Half a Hundred]

I'll go round two on this one, this is a fun distraction and keeps the brain firing


I AM an *sshole, although I'm not enitrely certain why you slipped that particular shoe on me the way/when you did...

Also, I identify with liberal lines of thinking much more than conservative. I don't think that either side is doing things "the right way" when given the chance.

That's why many people say we have two parties in this country - a center-right party and the Republicans ;)


The reason that the whole "golden era" family won't work anymore is because we've lost control of ourselves. Nobody can say "no" anymore unless there's something in it for them. "Stop eating those Twinkies or you'll get fat," isn't a threat anymore, 'cause now, if you get fat, someone will put you on T.V. to lose the weight publicly. I don't think that "sit down and shut up" constitutes child abuse anymore than "are you sure I can't have a kiss?" constitutes rape.

Is it so much that we've lost control of ourselves, or that self-restraint and austerity are horrible marketing strategies? How much money are you going to make by telling people "the answer is eating less and self-restraint" without adding "and find out how in my new book!"? Is it even possible to reach people with such messages without falling into the trap of consumerism?

Once again, it's up to everyone to decide how to individually raise their kids. However, you don't have a right to be free from criticism in your methods. Like I mentioned, it's usually pretty hard to get child services to intervene in cases involving a biological parent if that parent doesn't already have interaction with the bad side of the legal system.


But, back before we started telling kids on a daily basis how "special" they were without them attaching any achievement to the praise, we didn't see very many cases of things like O.C.D. or A.D.H.D, or any of those other "diseases" that keep kids from sitting still in their desk, listening to their teacher, and trying to learn something so that they won't be a dumb*ss. Now, if a child wants to be a disturbance in a classroom, teachers have to allow it, because that child is just "expressing themselves differently," and "is very special." It's bullsh*t is what it is.

Let me ask you something - how do you expect most boys to learn a damn thing by sitting at a desk and listen to a woman drawl on in monotone for eight hours a day? Just ask the guys on this site - many of them couldn't tell you a damn thing from high school algebra, but they'll tell you exactly how to clean a striped bass exactly the way their granddaddy taught them 20+ years ago. You can't tell me that's less difficult somehow than a lot of the stuff that's taught in school - manual dexterity has just as much to do with the brain as mathematical processing does. If you were able to get some of these boys out there in the world actually doing something with this material, I wonder if information retention rates would go up significantly.

Now, I know what the response is to that - "well, we'd like to, but there's all those pesky liability issues". I understand that. Here's the thing - you won't be liable if you take measures not to screw up in the first place... and that doesn't mean getting rid of field trips, either. This also comes down to a bit of the problem with our management style in this country - we're too prone to looking at numbers and hard facts rather than consulting with the ground-pounders. A superintendent who actually looked into every parental claim and advocated for the teacher when appropriate, rather than freaking out over every lawyer who walked into their building would help us immensely.

I understand your skepticism about certain childhood psychological disorders. I'll just say that I have no reason to doubt their existence.


Praise should follow accomplishments, not attempts. We are "losing" as a country, 'cause we're being run, at a greater and greater percentage, by people who never experienced loss. They got their gold star whether they finished first or last. They got their blue "participation" ribbon, just like the winners did, and nobody got their feelers hurt. It's f*cking ridiculous.

You're right - praise should follow accomplishments. Encouragement should follow attempts. Praise and encouragement are not the same thing. Negative encouragement works pretty well - I know I won't try harder to do anything than if it's to spite someone. Rather than give a ribbon out, the person should give a set of instructions on how to improve, saying "hey, if you want to win next time, here's a way you can get there". You don't even have to criticize the person by pointing out their deficiencies. All you need is to give them ways to improve.


Frankly, Rogue, I don't care HOW we get there, as long as we DO, but right now, regardless of what Toby Keith's latest album says, we're NOT "the best" right now. And, what makes matters worse, in my opinion, is that the problems we are really seeing, aren't problems that we can just fix. We can't just say, for example, no corporal punishment in schools anymore, and then, tomorrow, take it back. Now, kids have no threat of punishment at school... thank you, liberals... act however they choose, and teachers have to try to "teach around them" or whatever. There are so many chicken/egg arguments about why we're so f*cked-up as a country right now, that no one or two are going to nail down the root... just like no one or two people are going to be able to solve it. And, without there being a visceral, tangible, long-term reward in it for them, specifically, don't expect too many people to go along with the first couple of good ideas, either.

the_ouskull

Very true on the chicken-egg aspect. Still, I think it's unwise to think there's a one-size-fits-all answer to all these problems. Humans are inherently different among each other in the way they interact with the world. What might work for one person may completely fail with another. We've just been conditioned to think that there's only one way of doing things "right", and we fail a lot of people by thinking this way.

[Turd_Ferguson]

Roscoe:It's all the goddamned money, Ed Tom.
The money and the drugs. It's just
goddamned beyond everything. What is
it mean? What is it leading to?


Bell: Yes.


Roscoe: If you'd a told me twenty years ago
I'd see children walkin the streets of
our Oklahoma towns with green hair and
bones in their noses I just flat out
wouldn't of believed you.


Bell: Signs and wonders. But I think once
you stop hearin' sir and ma'am the rest
is soon to follow.


Roscoe: It's the tide. It's the dismal tide.
It is not the one thing.


Bell: Not the one thing. I used to think I
could at least some way put things right.
I don't feel that way no more.


...I don't know what I feel like.


Roscoe: Try "old" on for size.


Bell: Yes sir. It may be that. In a nutshell. :D

[the_ouskull]

Would not of?

the_ouskull

[JohnnyMack]

Skull, I agree with a lot of what you wrote
but I would distill it down into one phrase:

Lack of accountability.

We don't hold anybody accountable......
especially our leaders who have engaged
in massive dereliction of their duties by
enabling members of the banking cartel to
take over control of our economies.

And whoever weilds economic power rules the
world. Everything else is just minutiae
It wasn't military or moral superiority
that ended the former USSR. It was economic power.
And it will be economic power that enslaves
the world..... Not a political or moral philosophy or
even military power because military power
will always serve those who have the economic
power.

This.

Those with the financial power make the rules.

They want you to worry about who's taking the kids to soccer, the new Dan Brown book, what you're going to wear to the company Halloween party, what time the Steelers play and any and every little bit of minutiae possible so you don't stop and look at the fact that our manufacturing base sucks and that no one, from W to Obama to Palin or anyone in between is a) interested or b) capable of doing anything about it.

GM'a most profitable division was GMAC. That tells us all we need to know about what a pile of **** our manufacturing base has turned into.

[the_ouskull]

its laughable to think that a herb is powerful enough to take down this great nation.

Your first problem is implying that we're still a "great" nation. It's the only problem.

The Netherlands, known for lax policies on drugs, hookers, etc.. ranks behind the U.S. but ahead of countries like Japan and Germany in regards to economic freedom. (Free-Market Capitalism)

They're also ranked ahead of the U.S. in the failed-states index (current to 2009), and are near the bottom of that list, in fact. In addition, they rank higher than the U.S. on the Democracy index (current to 2008) and they have a slight lead on the U.S in literacy rate, and in the H.D.I., or Human Development Index... a measure of life expectancy, literacy, education and standards of living for countries worldwide. It is a standard means of measuring well-being, especially child welfare. It is used to distinguish whether the country is a developed, a developing or an under-developed country, and also to measure the impact of economic policies on quality of life.

Finally, they're 3rd in the Human Poverty Index to our 17th, and they have half as many adults that lack functional literacy skills.

Maybe weed IS the answer for our country...? Either that or hookers... :D

the_ouskull

[sooner ngintunr]

How about both?

Pills and Alcohol sure aren't working.

[C&CDean]

Your first problem is implying that we're still a "great" nation. It's the only problem.

The Netherlands, known for lax policies on drugs, hookers, etc.. ranks behind the U.S. but ahead of countries like Japan and Germany in regards to economic freedom. (Free-Market Capitalism)

They're also ranked ahead of the U.S. in the failed-states index (current to 2009), and are near the bottom of that list, in fact. In addition, they rank higher than the U.S. on the Democracy index (current to 2008) and they have a slight lead on the U.S in literacy rate, and in the H.D.I., or Human Development Index... a measure of life expectancy, literacy, education and standards of living for countries worldwide. It is a standard means of measuring well-being, especially child welfare. It is used to distinguish whether the country is a developed, a developing or an under-developed country, and also to measure the impact of economic policies on quality of life.

Finally, they're 3rd in the Human Poverty Index to our 17th, and they have half as many adults that lack functional literacy skills.

Maybe weed IS the answer for our country...? Either that or hookers... :D

the_ouskull

The biggest difference between us and them? They're all white.

Yeah, I know, that's racist. Truth is, you take away all our inner-city ghetto, gang-banger bull****, (and I can' leave out the labor unions raping this country to death) and we're a lot higher on all those lists. A LOT higher.

[FaninAma]

Dean, I would say that vulnerability
to being enslaved and becoming de-
pendent on the handouts from those
that control the creation and distribution
of wealth is being uneducated and a member
of the lower socio-economic class.

Blacks were just more vulnerable because
of where they started in this country but
other segments of our society are becoming
just as dependent on entitlements.

Once you are dependent on the handouts
from our economic landlords the less liklely
you are to turn against them or even
question them.

Our best hope is for the whole system
to implode and start over again with
some common sense safe guards in place.

[the_ouskull]

Cletus in his trailer, cheering against the "Gooners" is white, too, though. He's certainly not setting the curve in any of those categories.

I think it's more telling that their way of doing things has created fewer Cleti, which is, of course, the well-known pluralization of "Cletus," correct? Good.

Granted, we're at an unusual time in that aspect, too. We have more immigrants coming in than we can even process, not to mention the multitude of illegals.

I think that, even moreso than race, it comes back to socio-economic status. Poor, generally, goes one of two ways: hard-working, or lazy, welfare cases. When it goes hard-working, it can stay that way for multiple generations. When it goes lazy, welfare case, it can, and usually DOES, stay that way forever.

However they're doing things, they're doing it in a manner in which fewer "cases" are being created. Maybe there, instead of allowing their white trash to stay white trash through "educational" programs like N.C.L.B., they actually make them shut the f*ck up and get their learn on, then go on to become a contributing member of society instead of someone who lives a bullsh*t lifestyle by drinking the worksweat off of the brow of others.

There's stupid in every flavor... even vanilla.

the_ouskull

[Half a Hundred]

The biggest difference between us and them? They're all white.

Yeah, I know, that's racist. Truth is, you take away all our inner-city ghetto, gang-banger bull****, (and I can' leave out the labor unions raping this country to death) and we're a lot higher on all those lists. A LOT higher.

:pop:

[sooner ngintunr]

thats a new record for echo posts! Double Digits!!

[Turd_Ferguson]

:pop:Wow...I just wasted 3 minutes of my life reading this thread and all it did was prove to me that the Mods are no longer moderating this board.

90% of the posts in this thread deserve red cards and at least 1 or 2 posters in this thread should get a day or two off to cool their heels.

Name calling...spek whining...all are being ignored lately.

And this thread, from concept through execution to fruition, was a racist piece of hate bile and didn't even have good humor to justify its existence.

Carry on. I've said all I need to say about this thread. Blech.

[AlbqSooner]

[QUOTE=the_ouskull;2748714]However they're doing things, they're doing it in a manner in which fewer "cases" are being created. Maybe there, instead of allowing their white trash to stay white trash through "educational" programs like N.C.L.B., they actually make them shut the f*ck up and get their learn on, then go on to become a contributing member of society instead of someone who lives a bullsh*t lifestyle by drinking the worksweat off of the brow of others.QUOTE]

Maybe their school systems don't just drug the problem kids into submission and wonder why they can't pass the basic skills exams.

[the_ouskull]

thats a new record for echo posts! Double Digits!!

Yeah, about that... if someone would like to, uh, "fix" it, that'd be great. Thanks.

the_ouskull

[C&CDean]

Wow...I just wasted 3 minutes of my life reading this thread and all it did was prove to me that the Mods are no longer moderating this board.

90% of the posts in this thread deserve red cards and at least 1 or 2 posters in this thread should get a day or two off to cool their heels.

Name calling...spek whining...all are being ignored lately.

And this thread, from concept through execution to fruition, was a racist piece of hate bile and didn't even have good humor to justify its existence.

Carry on. I've said all I need to say about this thread. Blech.

****in' A.

[StoopTroup]

Sounds like someone put their Mod Resume in Dean. :D

[Rogue]

People think that I'm mean, or that I'm an *sshole, and, while they're not entirely wrong, they're not entirely RIGHT, either. I tend to tell things the way that they are. Yes, I admittedly could break the news a little easier to some people, but for the most part, I try to remain as objective as possible. Could it be that we have just seen our country, "what so proudly we (once) hailed," become so p*ssified that I now SEEM much more harsh by comparison? Not only do I MISS the Red Foreman father stereotype, but I can't wait to BECOME that guy. Eric might have been a f*cked-up hippie kid of the 1970's, but he was going to be a well-adjusted f*cked-up hippie kid, too.

Now, Red would have child services on his *ss 24/7, because his neighbors, rather than mind their own business, would call the cops and then act all non-chalant about it. "We were just trying to help," meanwhile their own daughter is whoring around, and they're each seeing someone behind their spouses back, wondering "where the spark" is.

I miss old America. I want MY M.T.V. YOUR M.T.V. sucks.

the_ouskull


Heh. This is why I slipped that shoe on you. I was agreeing with the part where you say people may think you are an ahole. The placement in my rant was just because it dawned on my to include it there.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to go get myself a juicebox from the cooler where the scoreboard used to be. ;)

[Rogue]

For the record, this is a decent discussion and I disagree that it needs to be more moderated. A few of the d00ds like to use colorful language to make a point and sometimes that makes the point more pointed. I'm actually enjoying this discussion. Sure it's another version of the red v blue that goes on here all the time, but this particular thread is a good illustration that most folks goals are the same...just disagreement about how best to get there.

[FaninAma]

Wow...I just wasted 3 minutes of my life reading this thread and all it did was prove to me that the Mods are no longer moderating this board.

90% of the posts in this thread deserve red cards and at least 1 or 2 posters in this thread should get a day or two off to cool their heels.

Name calling...spek whining...all are being ignored lately.

And this thread, from concept through execution to fruition, was a racist piece of hate bile and didn't even have good humor to justify its existence.

Carry on. I've said all I need to say about this thread. Blech.

By all means let's squelch any discussion
becuase it violates your genteel sensitivities.

People like you play directly into the hands
of those who do not like being questioned or,
heaven forbid, even discussed.

So they use political correctness to intimidate
and sensor discussion.

You are an enabler of those who want to continue
expanding their economic control over society and,
as a result. much worse than those who are addicted
to the handouts and trapped in
perpetual economic dependency.

I have no repect for your tactics and attitude.

Your whiney little post was an obvious attempt
to kill the discussion in this thread and is
a cowardly tactic.

[Curly Bill]

Turd Ferguson...politically correct...?


LOL :rolleyes: :D

[tommieharris91]

By all means let's squelch any discussion
becuase it violates your genteel sensitivities.

People like you play directly into the hands
of those who do not like being questioned or,
heaven forbid, even discussed.

So they use political correctness to intimidate
and sensor discussion.

You are an enabler of those who want to continue
expanding their economic control over society and,
as a result. much worse than those who are addicted
to the handouts and trapped in
perpetual economic dependency.

I have no repect for your tactics and attitude.

Your whiney little post was an obvious attempt
to kill the discussion in this thread and is
a cowardly tactic.
Hope you enjoy getting the hook out of your mouth.

[FaninAma]

Turd Ferguson...politically correct...?


LOL :rolleyes: :D

I don't know what else to call it. Instead
of engaging in some sort of discourse he
throws out several insults and buzz words
designed to impugn the motives of those
he disagrees with.

The thread has veered from the original post
so I would challenge him to at least try to
respond to the article linked in the OP.

Surely he can do better than jumping into
the conversation, hurl some vague insults
and then run away.

[FaninAma]

Hope you enjoy getting the hook out of your mouth.

Sorry but I have no idea what motivates
Mr. Turd. If it is just to try and get a reaction
out of individuals that seems a bit silly
and lame. But thanks for the heads up.

[PDXsooner]

Really? I remember way back in the 70's (when I started every day with a couple bong hits, and continued throughout the day) when our biggest fear was the Russians, thinking "if Russia wants to take this country over, just put some THC in our water supply. We'd be the most apathetic, lazy, who gives a **** nation in the world." And that was back when pot was ****ty. With today's high-octane herb, we'd sit idly by smiling, listening to our ipods, eating some Doritos going "just don't hurt us dudes..." Meh. Weed sucks.



I couldn't agree more. There are several strains of influenza that kill a lot more folks than H1N1. But it's the swine flu dangit, and it's gotta be bad!!1!

man, you think just because you went through your little weed-stage back in the day, you're some kind of expert on it. well, guess what? you're not!

yes, you may be correct in that is saps people of motivation. yes, maybe it kills people's ambition. but so f-ing what!?!?!? there are a million things worse than weed in this world, and quite honestly i'm in the make-it-legal camp.

weed is a blessing and a gift to this earth. enjoy it!

[SCOUT]

yes, you may be correct in that is saps people of motivation. yes, maybe it kills people's ambition. but so f-ing what!?!?!?
If there were ever a case-in-point against the legalization of mary jane, this is it.

[Petro-Sooner]

If there were ever a case-in-point against the legalization of mary jane, this is it.

Boy I guess so!

[the_ouskull]

The truth is, people find their own reasons to be sapped of motivation. I've known smokers who were constantly motivated to get stuff done. Then they'd "reward" themselves. It's the idiots that make everybody else look bad. For every productive pothead out there, there's a half a dozen or more Spicoli's. It ruins Christmas.

the_ouskull

[starclassic tama]

Really? I remember way back in the 70's (when I started every day with a couple bong hits, and continued throughout the day) when our biggest fear was the Russians, thinking "if Russia wants to take this country over, just put some THC in our water supply. We'd be the most apathetic, lazy, who gives a **** nation in the world." And that was back when pot was ****ty. With today's high-octane herb, we'd sit idly by smiling, listening to our ipods, eating some Doritos going "just don't hurt us dudes..." Meh. Weed sucks.



I couldn't agree more. There are several strains of influenza that kill a lot more folks than H1N1. But it's the swine flu dangit, and it's gotta be bad!!1!

sure, swine flu is packed with a lot of media hype. but, it is a stronger version of the flu, which is not good. the reason it has only killed 1,000 people and other strains of the flu have killed a lot more is because they have been prevalent for a lot longer. as far as the weed thing goes, of course it gives you an excuse to be extra lazy. but the point should be, why are substances legal (such as alcohol and tobacco) which are without a doubt much more harmful clinically than pot?

[OklahomaTuba]

but the point should be, why are substances legal (such as alcohol and tobacco) which are without a doubt much more harmful clinically than pot?Without a doubt? Please.

Pot is much more dangerous than tobacco naturally. And if it were legal, it would be even more so because "big tobacco" would be add all the same crap they put into tobacco products into the pot they would be selling their kids.

[StoopTroup]

Dean never bonged tobacco.

[C&CDean]

Dean never bonged tobacco.

Parsley, oregano, banana peels, jimson weed, pcp, speed, and even some dried grass one time. But never tobacco.

[StoopTroup]

:D

[the_ouskull]

Parsley, oregano, banana peels, jimson weed, pcp, speed, and even some dried grass one time. But never tobacco.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/sichuevos/family-guy-smoke.jpg

the_ouskull

[def_lazer_fc]

yes, you may be correct in that is saps people of motivation. yes, maybe it kills people's ambition. but so f-ing what!?!?!?

television comes to mind. uh, video games too. theres all sorts of things that can have the same end affect as weed. why weed is still illegal is dumbfounding to me.

[C&CDean]

television comes to mind. uh, video games too. theres all sorts of things that can have the same end affect as weed. why weed is still illegal is dumbfounding to me.

Says Mr. Pothead.:rolleyes:

I played me a buttload of Pong, Asteroids, and Pacman back in the day. Trust me, it didn't **** me up like the red bud. Not even close. Hell, a guy would have to be a stoner to even think or say something as stupid as what you just typed.

[PDXsooner]

piercings, tattoos, reading books, watching movies, hanging out with the wrong crowd, prescription pills, alcohol, fast food, cigarettes, red meat -- all things that can "F" people up -- but still not illegal.

there is no bigger double standard than alcohol vs. marijuana in terms of an analogy that supports the legalization of marijuana. i have yet to hear one half-decent reason why it's OK for alcohol to be legal but not for marijuana.

still waiting.

and for the record, i quit smoking weed about 5 years ago. for health reasons, and nothing else. don't choose to stick unhealthy stuff into my body anymore.

[I Am Right]

You have to ask!!!!

[JohnnyMack]

Back to the original topic:

http://www.apple.com/trailers/independent/collapse/

[JohnnyMack]

nm

[StoopTroup]

Says Mr. Pothead.:rolleyes:

I played me a buttload of Pong, Asteroids, and Pacman back in the day. Trust me, it didn't **** me up like the red bud. Not even close. Hell, a guy would have to be a stoner to even think or say something as stupid as what you just typed.

You probably got some of that paraquat ****.

I heard that stuff makes folks bald.

[starclassic tama]

Without a doubt? Please.

Pot is much more dangerous than tobacco naturally. And if it were legal, it would be even more so because "big tobacco" would be add all the same crap they put into tobacco products into the pot they would be selling their kids.

show your evidence. hell, read this article... i'm sure you have read it already since it came from your home page.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,196678,00.html

[sooner ngintunr]

show your evidence.

I'll save him the effort, there is none.

[SicEmBaylor]

Without a doubt? Please.

Pot is much more dangerous than tobacco naturally. And if it were legal, it would be even more so because "big tobacco" would be add all the same crap they put into tobacco products into the pot they would be selling their kids.

So, you believe that the Federal government has a constitutional mandate to decide what is good/bad for the individual when that substance or action has absolutely no effect on others. You think the government should be responsible for protecting the individual from bad choices the individual may make.

Gotcha, and you call yourself a conservative? Please stop. Stop peddling your ideologically inconsistent claptrap and leave the whole politics thing to others.

[the_ouskull]

W.R.H. killed hemp way back when it was starting to pose a threat to paper. The government is fully aware of its effects due to 1) thousands of independent studies, and 2) their OWN experiments with it, dating back to MKULTRA, for example.

It's not legal, 'cause they can't tax it. Period.

the_ouskull

[I Am Right]

President Barack Obama has only been in office for just over nine months, but he's already hit the links as much as President Bush did in over two years.


CBS' Mark Knoller — an unofficial documentarian and statistician of all things White House-related — wrote on his Twitter feed that, "Today - Obama ties Pres. Bush in the number of rounds of golf played in office: 24.

Took Bush 2 yrs & 10 months."


This news comes on the heels of today's news that Obama played golf with a woman — chief domestic policy adviser Melody Barnes — for the first time since taking office.

[olevetonahill]

Wow...I just wasted 3 minutes of my life reading this thread and all it did was prove to me that the Mods are no longer moderating this board.

90% of the posts in this thread deserve red cards and at least 1 or 2 posters in this thread should get a day or two off to cool their heels.

Name calling...spek whining...all are being ignored lately.

And this thread, from concept through execution to fruition, was a racist piece of hate bile and didn't even have good humor to justify its existence.

Carry on. I've said all I need to say about this thread. Blech.

Next time ya Dumas Make sure they Know its a quote from an Old thread and who its from
Ya see LAS gets a FREE pass :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[JohnnyMack]

President Barack Obama has only been in office for just over nine months, but he's already hit the links as much as President Bush did in over two years.


CBS' Mark Knoller — an unofficial documentarian and statistician of all things White House-related — wrote on his Twitter feed that, "Today - Obama ties Pres. Bush in the number of rounds of golf played in office: 24.

Took Bush 2 yrs & 10 months."


This news comes on the heels of today's news that Obama played golf with a woman — chief domestic policy adviser Melody Barnes — for the first time since taking office.

What about vacation days?

[Frozen Sooner]

Hey, that brush wasn't clearing itself.

[Frozen Sooner]

Here's what's wrong with this country:

Too much finger pointing at other people.

[olevetonahill]

Here's what's wrong with this country:

Too much finger pointing at other people.

I allas heard that when ya Pointing yer finger at someones Ya gots 3 pointin right back at ya :D

[Petro-Sooner]

I allas heard that when ya Pointing yer finger at someones Ya gots 3 pointin right back at ya :D

Mom would tell me the exact same thing.

[PDXsooner]

as soon as you identify yourself as a "democrat" or a "republican" you are venturing down the wrong path.

and "Liberal" and "democrat" are not synonyms.

neither are "Conservative" and "republican".

[Turd_Ferguson]

as soon as you identify yourself as a "democrat" or a "republican" you are venturing down the wrong path.

and "Liberal" and "democrat" are not synonyms.

neither are "Conservative" and "republican".I don't think you know **** about ****...but that's just me.:D

[OklahomaTuba]

So, you believe that the Federal government has a constitutional mandate to decide what is good/bad for the individual when that substance or action has absolutely no effect on others...
So you don't believe someone getting high has an effect on others???

Well, its affected my life with a parent and an adopted brother who can't quit the ****.

It's also effected my company and our employees thanks to some guy in our shop decideding to operate a forklift after toking up one day. Now they have to pay higher insurance premiums, a guy got hurt, we lost money, etc

And don't mention what this does to our children and the vile culture it spreads.

But please, do tell how it doesn't effect others....

[JohnnyMack]

So you don't believe someone getting high has an effect on others???

Well, its affected my life with a parent and an adopted brother who can't quit the ****.

It's also effected my company and our employees thanks to some guy in our shop decideding to operate a forklift after toking up one day. Now they have to pay higher insurance premiums, a guy got hurt, we lost money, etc

And don't mention what this does to our children and the vile culture it spreads.

But please, do tell how it doesn't effect others....

Jews don't recognize Jesus as the son of God.

Protestants don't recognize the pope as the leader of the Christian church.

Baptists don't recognize each other at the liquor store.

[PDXsooner]

So you don't believe someone getting high has an effect on others???

Well, its affected my life with a parent and an adopted brother who can't quit the ****.

It's also effected my company and our employees thanks to some guy in our shop decideding to operate a forklift after toking up one day. Now they have to pay higher insurance premiums, a guy got hurt, we lost money, etc

And don't mention what this does to our children and the vile culture it spreads.

But please, do tell how it doesn't effect others....

so are you in support of banning alcohol? i would worry a lot more about a forklift operator or a driver that has been drinking alcohol A LOT more than i would someone who was toking.

not to mention that the culprit there was THE OPERATOR and not the marijuana. similar to the old gun debate. guns don't kill, people do! what is stopping that guy from taking dramamine, prescription pills, alcohol, caffeine, or any other substance that may alter his judgment? he made a poor decision.

again, it doesn't effect others any more than anything else does.

[SicEmBaylor]

So you don't believe someone getting high has an effect on others???

Well, its affected my life with a parent and an adopted brother who can't quit the ****.

It's also effected my company and our employees thanks to some guy in our shop decideding to operate a forklift after toking up one day. Now they have to pay higher insurance premiums, a guy got hurt, we lost money, etc

And don't mention what this does to our children and the vile culture it spreads.

But please, do tell how it doesn't effect others....

JM and PDX are absolutely right with their alcohol comparisons. Furthermore, it should go without saying that someone should always be held accountable for their actions while using alcohol, pot, or any other substance. The fact that I don't favor a Federal ban does not mean I don't favor holding individuals accountable for what they do when they're high. The same can be said for any substance.

HOWEVER, having said all that, if you're that against pot then you should look to the appropriate level of government based on the constitution and consistent with the fact that we are, supposedly, still a republic. Look to your individual state to regulate pot to whatever degree you think appropriate. But there is absolutely no valid or consistent argument to make for the Federal government to ban marijuana.

[the_ouskull]

The same nation that would put "..under God" in it's Pledge, but won't put the Flying Spaghetti Monster on money because he/she/it has too many letters in his/her/its name? Got it?

the_ouskull

[SicEmBaylor]

The same nation that would put "..under God" in it's Pledge, but won't put the Flying Spaghetti Monster on money because he/she/it has too many letters in his/her/its name? Got it?

the_ouskull

WTF are you talking about?

[C&CDean]

What you knuckleheads aren't factoring in is the effect of weed vs. alcohol after-the-fact.

I won't argue that a person who is under the immediate influence of booze or pot is much more likely to crash their car. It's a no-brainer. Look at all the alcohol-caused deaths out there. Of course they really don't track the weed-fatalities, and I'm sure it's lower because not near as many people smoke weed, and weed tends to make one much more passive and likely to drive slower and/or not make risky decisions.

All this ain't what I'm talking about though. What I'm talking about is after the buzz is gone. What weed does (and alcohol does not) is it continues to **** up your abilities to make good, sound decisions, and even more importantly, it ****s up your drive and motivation. Pretty much every top CEO/military general/successful doctor/attorney/etc. has some drinks every now and then. Some even every day - yet they excel in their chose crafts.

How many potheads do you know who are major CEOs? Generals? Doctors? Attorneys? Not many, I promise you.

Weed kills by robbing you of your drive. Not while you're intoxicated, but while you're straight. It takes weeks/months to overcome the negative impact of smoking a blunt. I know this first hand, and I've experienced it with my kids, employees, and countless friends. Put down the pipe/bong/joint, and you can be whatever you want to be. Keep toking, and you're happy to just have the lights work when you flip the switch, and have some TV dinners in the freezer. Life's good...meh.

[OklahomaTuba]

so are you in support of banning alcohol No, because when people drink, its not to just get drunk.

When people smoke a joint, its to get high, that's all.

You understand this, right??

[OklahomaTuba]

What you knuckleheads aren't factoring in is the effect of weed vs. alcohol after-the-fact.Its rather ironic that in a thread named "why the country is headed down the sewer" we are talking about legalizing something that would result in going down said sewer even faster.

[Half a Hundred]

No, because when people drink, its not to just get drunk.

When people smoke a joint, its to get high, that's all.

You understand this, right??

I consider any effect of alcohol on the cognitive processes to be drunkenness.

So, where's the distinction now?

[PDXsooner]

How many potheads do you know who are major CEOs? Generals? Doctors? Attorneys? Not many, I promise you.


doctors, ceo's, and lawyers i can name several. no military generals that i can think of.

i don't dispute your points, necessarily. but you're talking about chronic use. the person that smokes the occasional joint doesn't fall into the same category. in addition, to say that alcohol doesn't have long-term effects on the brain is pretty much off the mark. i think you can tell people who have been heavy drinkers for most of their lives pretty easily.

either way, those aren't reasons to ban weed. if we're going to ban anything, banning fast food is #1 on my list. the fat blobs that it turns people into is a bigger drain on health care, the back of firefighters lifting them down the stairs, the guy who has to sit next to them on the plane, etc.

[I Am Right]

Story #10: Lamar Alexander: Obama Deliberately Killing Jobs

RUSH: Let's see. "Senate Republican Conference Chairman Lamar Alexander (R-TN) 'on Monday said President Barack Obama is promoting a climate-change bill that would "deliberately" kill American jobs -- a statement immediately dismissed by the bill’s chief promoter, Sen. Barbara Boxer.' Boxer has released a 900-page bill with Foreign Relations Committee Chairman John Kerry (D-Mass.) that is expected to be marked up next week," but hearings are scheduled to start Tuesday for three days, nine panels of 54 total witnesses expected to come before the committee. "Alexander said the country should devote itself to building 100 more nuclear power plants over the next 20 years, converting half of the country's autos to electricity in the next 20 years," well that's stupid, "increase offshore oil exploration," that's good, "and increase investments in energy research and development."

So they can't say there aren't any ideas from the Republican Party on this. But I mean do you realize what a statement this is for a sitting Senator to come out and say that Obama is deliberately killing American jobs? That's big, and that's true, and it is accurate. And I no longer feel like I'm on the plank by myself out there on this.

[PDXsooner]

No, because when people drink, its not to just get drunk.

When people smoke a joint, its to get high, that's all.

You understand this, right??

except for the people who smoke for medicinal purposes. those who smoke to alleviate severe pain, and to maintain an appetite during chemo treatments.

and whether people drink to get drunk or drink to look cool, is it the government's job to make the distinction on whether or not that's appropriate?

and you call yourself a conservative...ha!!

[PDXsooner]

by the way i am a HUGE advocate of state's rights. it's so sad to see how many "conservatives" have replaced this idea with moral legislation based on their interpretation of a little black book.

[SicEmBaylor]

No, because when people drink, its not to just get drunk.

When people smoke a joint, its to get high, that's all.

You understand this, right??

Wow. So, the problem isn't with the substance; the problem is with the intent of the person smoking the joint. I mean, WOW. So, by that logic we could legally outlaw pot if someone is smoking JUST to get high but keep it legal if, you know, they're just smoking socially.

So, essentially you think it proper for the government to outlaw substances based on the intent of the individual using those substances. I bet you're a big fan of hate crimes legislation.

Tuba: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/youare

[I Am Right]

Baylor, just beat the bunch from stoolwater!

[SicEmBaylor]

by the way i am a HUGE advocate of state's rights. it's so sad to see how many "conservatives" have replaced this idea with moral legislation based on their interpretation of a little black book.

This ^ This ^ This ^

[Frozen Sooner]

So, essentially you think it proper for the government to outlaw substances based on the intent of the individual using those substances. I bet you're a big fan of hate crimes legislation.

They already do. Totally legal to own Sudafed with the intent of taking it per directions. Completely illegal to own it intending to manufacture methamphetamine with it.

[SicEmBaylor]

Baylor, just beat the bunch from stoolwater!

It's a little late for that.

[PDXsooner]

This ^ This ^ This ^

the worst was when bush's cronie, ashcroft came into oregon threatening oregon doctors who administered assisted suicide. i mean, the voters of the state of oregon VOTED to legalize assisted suicide. if you don't like it, then don't opt for it.

but the bush administration zealots didn't feel like it fit in to their religious ideology so they came into oregon with their threats.

they had a big crackdown on local head shops which sell bongs, pipes, etc. marijuana is very socially accepted in oregon and will be one of the first states to legalize marijuana IMO.

this was my first realization that these guys weren't conservatives.

[SicEmBaylor]

They already do. Totally legal to own Sudafed with the intent of taking it per directions. Completely illegal to own it intending to manufacture methamphetamine with it.

That's a good point.

Although there is a little bit of a difference. Here we're talking about using a product in its original state for its intended purpose. In the case of pseudoephedrines, you're extracting certain chemicals to produce a totally different substance; thus, you're not using the Sudafed for its intended purpose.

It's sort of like using fertilizer to make a bomb. Fertilizer is perfectly legal, but when you use that fertilizer outside its intended purpose it becomes illegal.

You, have a very good point though.

[SicEmBaylor]

the worst was when bush's cronie, ashcroft came into oregon threatening oregon doctors who administered assisted suicide. i mean, the voters of the state of oregon VOTED to legalize assisted suicide. if you don't like it, then don't opt for it.

but the bush administration zealots didn't feel like it fit in to their religious ideology so they came into oregon with their threats.

they had a big crackdown on local head shops which sell bongs, pipes, etc. marijuana is very socially accepted in oregon and will be one of the first states to legalize marijuana IMO.

this was my first realization that these guys weren't conservatives.

Yep, again, you're absolutely right. There is a reason why the Framer's constructed the Constitution in such a way that it left most domestic policy to the individual states. They realized that the culture and belief systems of the people of various states could vary widely, and that blanket Federal laws on domestic issues would cause friction between the people of the different states. The beauty of our constitution is that, when properly followed, it allows the individual states to be incubators of social change. It allows one state to experiment with issues like the free use of marijuana, state run healthcare, etc. It allows states to try new things and to craft legislation and social policy that best reflect the beliefs of the citizens of that state.

We lost that ability when we started insisting that EVERYONE believe the way we do and the best way to ensure that is via Federal legislation.

My God, this country was founded on the principles of de-centralized government and individual liberty. The very essence of our political theory is that the political leaders closest to us are best equipped to rule for us. Why anyone would cede their political liberty to a national Congress full of people who know absolutely NOTHING about their communities is beyond me. I'd rather have the state rep. who lives down the street, shops at the same markets, and lives in the same area make decisions that most impact my life. Not some bozo from cluster****, NY.

[I Am Right]

It's a little late for that.

Your right, sorry.

[IronHorseSooner]

I am a financial manager for the government, and we do waste A LOT of money, just because people don't understand that money doesn't grow on trees, and nobody wants to be told NO! This is also the same reason we have a financial crisis. There is no individual accountability, nor discipline, nor prudence. People wanted bigger houses, faster cars, and higher-def TVs without the means to pay for them. We had banks that were complicit with this behavior, and, voila!, here we are!

[sooner ngintunr]

Marijuana prohibition causes more problems than it solves.


Education is key to turning around this nation. We are failing miserably.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

I am a financial manager for the government, and we do waste A LOT of money, just because people don't understand that money doesn't grow on trees, and nobody wants to be told NO! This is also the same reason we have a financial crisis. There is no individual accountability, nor discipline, nor prudence. People wanted bigger houses, faster cars, and higher-def TVs without the means to pay for them. We had banks that were complicit with this behavior, and, voila!, here we are!

And political leaders that encouraged it!

[StoopTroup]

Right before Tulsa announced they were laying off 16 Police Officers I noticed quite a few folks getting pulled over the last few weeks. I feel for anyone who is suffering a job loss...especially Police and Fire folks. They are needed badly. I just hope the Police understand that it's not the regular folks who got them fired. It's all those folks with bumper stickers.

[I Am Right]

http://mfile.akamai.com/5020/wma/rushlimb.download.akamai.com/5020/New/shinethelight.asx

[StoopTroup]

http://mfile.akamai.com/5020/wma/rushlimb.download.akamai.com/5020/New/shinethelight.asx

You should be banned for that link.

[sitzpinkler]

I find it funny that some people think things will get worse if pot is legalized. Do these people really think anything would change? Like more people are going to start smoking simply because it's legal?

People who smoke weed are going to smoke regardless of whether it's legal or not. It's not like the stuff is hard to get. People who don't smoke weed aren't going to start just because it's legalized.

The ONLY thing that would change is less tickets and less people arrested for it.

[Turd_Ferguson]

I find it funny that some people think things will get worse if meth is legalized. Do these people really think anything would change? Like more people are going to start smoking simply because it's legal?

People who smoke meth are going to smoke regardless of whether it's legal or not. It's not like the stuff is hard to get. People who don't smoke meth aren't going to start just because it's legalized.

The ONLY thing that would change is less tickets and less people arrested for it.:confused::pop:

[Half a Hundred]

:confused::pop:

Because the physiological effects of methamphetamine are exactly the same as those of THC.

[Turd_Ferguson]

Because the physiological effects of methamphetamine are exactly the same as those of THC.They are? Wow.

[yermom]

about the only thing meth has in common with weed is that they are both illegal

[Turd_Ferguson]

about the only thing meth has in common with weed is that they are both illegalYour a little biased aren't ya there shaggy?:D

[I Am Right]

http://mfile.akamai.com/5020/wma/rushlimb.download.akamai.com/5020/New/obamahalloween.asx

[I Am Right]

http://mfile.akamai.com/5020/wma/rushlimb.download.akamai.com/5020/shanklin_archives/New%20Age%20Educators.asx

[Half a Hundred]

They are? Wow.

*sarcasm*

[the_ouskull]

Because the physiological effects of methamphetamine are exactly the same as those of THC.

That is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard on this board. Do you realize the magnitude of what I just said, considering my 1) inflated opinion of myself, and 2) opinion of everybody else, in general? You, sir/ma'am, are a ridiculous, Bobbie-Burbridge-Lane-"fact"-spouting buffoon to think that such poppycock is true. Unless what YOU mean by "physiological" is different what I mean by it - along with the rest of the free, occupied, and unexplored world.

Seriously... Link? If it has the word "right" in the title, especially as a modified noun (example: religious right) then it's probably not a "credible source." That's all I'm saying...

the_ouskull

[yermom]

Your a little biased aren't ya there shaggy?:D

i'm fairly well read on drug use and have known a few people dumber than me in regards to it's usage.

it's my belief that one can casually use weed, not so much with meth.

and yeah, i've smoked weed, not a whole lot though, and not lately

i've seen way more stupid **** go down from alcohol than weed.

i think that weed and alcohol should be legal, but used sparingly... i'm amazed at how socially acceptable drunks are, especially behind the wheel.

[Half a Hundred]

That is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard on this board. Do you realize the magnitude of what I just said, considering my 1) inflated opinion of myself, and 2) opinion of everybody else, in general? You, sir/ma'am, are a ridiculous, Bobbie-Burbridge-Lane-"fact"-spouting buffoon to think that such poppycock is true. Unless what YOU mean by "physiological" is different what I mean by it - along with the rest of the free, occupied, and unexplored world.

Seriously... Link? If it has the word "right" in the title, especially as a modified noun (example: religious right) then it's probably not a "credible source." That's all I'm saying...

the_ouskull

Honestly - it's clear that the effects of a sympathomimetic amine whose primary effects are to mimic the effect of norepinephrine in the body while blocking the reuptake of dopamine while stimulating its release, resulting in an alert and euphoric state are exactly the same as a cannibinoid receptor agonist, which stimulates the system associated with relaxation and appetite while producing an analgesic effect are exactly the same.

If it's so absurd to effect that strong of a response in you, good chances are that I was being completely non-serious. Which I was.

[the_ouskull]

Honestly - it's clear that the effects of a sympathomimetic amine whose primary effects are to mimic the effect of norepinephrine in the body while blocking the reuptake of dopamine while stimulating its release, resulting in an alert and euphoric state are exactly the same as a cannibinoid receptor agonist, which stimulates the system associated with relaxation and appetite while producing an analgesic effect are exactly the same.

Were you expecting those big words to scare me or something? Meth does not increase your appetite. If you've ever seen a fat methhead, it's 'cause they're not very good at it.

the_ouskull

[Frozen Sooner]

Were you expecting those big words to scare me or something? Meth does not increase your appetite. If you've ever seen a fat methhead, it's 'cause they're not very good at it.

the_ouskull

D, you're usually much quicker to pick up sarcasm than this...

[the_ouskull]

No, just paranoid. Being from S.E. Oklahoma, I HAVE seen fat methheads, and I was hoping that nobody had sent a team down to take pictures to prove me wrong..

Same rule applies. If I'm talking about a methhead's appetite...

[Half a Hundred]

OK - to make it clear:

The physiological effects of methamphetamine could not be any more different than those of marijuana. To suggest otherwise is patently absurd.

[Half a Hundred]

Also, the reason there are fat methheads is because sympathomimetic drugs, by artificially inducing the fight-or-flight response in a person, tends to flood their system with cortisol. So when they do get around to eating, their body puts every single fat calorie consumed into storage.

[StoopTroup]

So...meth is bad right? Hitler was skinny...and PBHO is skinny....

OMG! FOX IS RIGHT! :D

[the_ouskull]

Also, the reason there are fat methheads is because sympathomimetic drugs, by artificially inducing the fight-or-flight response in a person, tends to flood their system with cortisol. So when they do get around to eating, their body puts every single fat calorie consumed into storage.

...and here I was thinking it was lack of exercise, combined with a lot of f*cking meth. Calorie? Is that metric?

the_ouskull

[Half a Hundred]

...and here I was thinking it was lack of exercise, combined with a lot of f*cking meth. Calorie? Is that metric?

the_ouskull

CGS metric, not SI, which uses kilojoules for food energy. We use kilocalories, but abbreviate it.