Let me bring up Alabama

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I've brought it up over at another board and would like to hear some thoughts here...just football talk..no big whoop


Alabama replaced 7 starters on offense this year..They lost

3 starters on Oline (LT Smith, C Caldwell,RG Davis)
quarterback, who wasn't great, but was a 3 year starter none-the-less.
leading rusher Glen Coffee
Their top pass catching TE and top blocking TE

How do they manage this loss? They are undefeated so far and considered by many to be the best team in the country.

I've stated this before...This OU team was facing this season with the potential of losing Sam, Gerald, Jermaine, and Trent to the NFL anyway....

Why wasn't the others ready to play?

[Frozen Sooner]

I've brought it up over at another board and would like to hear some thoughts here...just football talk..no big whoop


Alabama replaced 7 starters on offense this year..They lost

3 starters on Oline (LT Smith, C Caldwell,RG Davis)
quarterback, who wasn't great, but was a 3 year starter none-the-less.
leading rusher Glen Coffee
Their top pass catching TE and top blocking TE

How do they manage this loss? They are undefeated so far and considered by many to be the best team in the country.

I've stated this before...This OU team was facing this season with the potential of losing Sam, Gerald, Jermaine, and Trent to the NFL anyway....

Why wasn't the others ready to play?

Saban has done an amazing job in recruiting, particularly along the offensive line.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Froze, how many high profile recruits have left the program in the last couple of years over there?

[Johnny Utah]

Good question(s) ... I've raised the Oline question on some other threads. Is it a position that is much more valued/coveted in that program, since a Heisman winning qb isn't needed to be successful? Surprisingly enough 'Bama has never had a Heisman winner (but more national championships than every other team combined :rolleyes: )

[JLEW1818]

Good thread

[beer4me]

Great thread brings up some good questions

[TXBOOMER]

Saban seems to do a great job recruiting as well as gets a lot of effort every down on his teams. I hate to admit it but between Bama, Florida, LSU and even Arkansas they have some physical beasts that give great effort in that conference. We certainly have some players on our team that could play in that conference but I'm not sure about OUr O line other than Williams (I guess).

[westbrooke]

Alabama is indeed an interesting case. I took up the other side of the discussion with JohnnyUtah in one of those threads he mentioned. I'm not sure I feel particularly strongly about it, but I'll toss out some ideas for you all to bat around:

First, Alabama's losses:

John Parker Wilson was a game manager. If you look at his stats, they weren't outstanding. His major accomplishment was not screwing up. I haven't seen much of Bama this year, but I suspect they're asking for something similar from McElroy.

Coffee was an outstanding running back and a large part of their offense last year, but so was Ingram. He still carried for 728 yards last year (about half of Coffee's production) and actually scored more touchdowns than Coffee (12-10). Ingram might be the best player in the country this year. More and more people are touting him for the Heisman (ESPN.com and SI.com), and I'm ready to jump on that bandwagon too.

Bama's TEs from last year were Travis McCall (the blocker) and Nick Walker (the receiver). Walker only hauled in 324 yards and 2 TDs last year. Compare this with Gresham's 950 yards and 14 TDs, both totals better than Bama's leading receiver, Julio Jones, who had 924 and 4. Jones, of course, is still there to help out McElroy.

I can't say much about Bama's O-Line, not having seen them much of their games, but I suspect they're not great so much as they're getting the job done. As long as they're winning, no one is looking too closely at how the sausage is made. And with Jones, Ingram, and their defense, they have the tools to win.

Second, contrast to OU:

Landry has played well and he'd probably be playing even better if he got all the snaps (or had to compete with Allen for a starter's role) through the spring and fall were Sam not here. On top of that, Jones redshirted last year, and McElroy did not, seeing (very) limited game time. All told, McElroy had a big head start on Landry in this regard.

Similar situation for our tight ends, who could have been getting more meaningful snaps if Gresham weren't practicing here through the spring and fall. On top of that, Eldridge, our version of Bama's McCall, has been yanked all over the lineup to fill in for injured linemen. While Bama returned their best receiver (and Ingram has been good out of the backfield) to an offense that doesn't rely on the pass, we returned only the 4th best yardage producer (Broyles) out of last year's top 5 (Iglesias, Gresham, Manny, and Chaney), and even Broyles has had to miss game time.

Our offensive line was going to be a problem and we've known it for some time. We targeted the position two years ago with a well-regarded class led by Stephen Good and Ben Habern, both of whom either start or play significant minutes, and then again last year with a class that brought in Tyler Evans and Tavaris Jeffries, both of whom also play. (I overstated the size of the class in an earlier post; I just checked the recruiting threads to confirm we got 3 OLs in 2008 and 4 in 2009). The problem here isn't so much that we don't have talent, it's that we don't have experience. Games started is one of the single biggest predictors of quality offensive line play. To paraphrase what I said in the other thread: It's frustrating to watch Bama win with their inexperienced line, but they have fewer other obstacles to deal with. And even if they're playing better than I imagine, they're one outlying data point in a history of college football that says turnover on the OL = bad news. It's frustrating but not surprising that we're having such difficulties.

If you've stuck it out through this epic post, you deserve my apologies and my congratulations. It's probably more effort for you than it's worth. I totally get the point of the thread and agree with the sentiment. Bama is getting some great production from new players. And I'd like to see our backups get more game experience. Our line is probably facing a similar situation next year and getting as many people snaps as possible would do us good down the line. If Bradford isn't going to play again, I'd be in favor of pulling Allen's redshirt and letting him get some snaps too, after Landry wraps up some of our easier games. I wish our coaches would do more to turn these great recruits into capable replacements before they're needed instead of after.

[Scott D]

They're not asking McElroy to be as much of a game manager as they did JP Wilson, most of that is because McElroy is flat out better than Wilson was but it was more beneficial for McElroy to learn the offense in a backup role than supplant the loyal Bama guy in Wilson.

The evidence is there in the fact that Alabama's passing game is far more potent this year than it was last year despite the lack of production from Julio Jones.

[soonerinabilene]

two things that i think about this. 1. Sabans first priority in recruiting is getting big ol hogmollies on both sides of the line, then he gets decent to really good guys to play behind those big ol hogmollies. 2. ingram and jones are much better than decent to really good. you have two studs, a really good qb(who came from southlake, played after booger left,and looked like an actual qb instead of a guy in a great system like booger was), and decent guys at the other positions on offense. add that to the huge dline, good lbs and decent secondary in a VERY well coached defensivr scheme and you have what i think is the best team in the country right now.

[East Coast Bias]

Stoopsie is right, College ball is a swinging door, the coaches know this and have to develope talent and it comes down to planning and starting with a good foundation(line). We have heard Bob say "there is no waiver wire in college", I am sure they would like to waive some players and upgrade talent, even though these are the guys they brought in.I would like to see more time and effort spent on development and putting our players in a position to win.

[Scott D]

Stoopsie is right, College ball is a swinging door, the coaches know this and have to develope talent and it comes down to planning and starting with a good foundation(line). We have heard Bob say "there is no waiver wire in college", I am sure they would like to waive some players and upgrade talent, even though these are the guys they brought in.I would like to see more time and effort spent on development and putting our players in a position to win.

they do waive players....the coaching staff calls it Camp Schmitty.

[JLEW1818]

Why would j jones want to go to bama??

[westbrooke]

The evidence is there in the fact that Alabama's passing game is far more potent this year than it was last year despite the lack of production from Julio Jones.

That's true, I was surprised when I looked up their stats. Receiving production so far:

RECEIVING Rec. Yards Avg TD Long Avg/G
Colin Peek 19 213 11.2 1 21 30.4
Mark Ingram 19 186 9.8 3 31 26.6
Marquis Maze 14 261 18.6 2 80 37.3
Julio Jones 13 175 13.5 1 50 29.2
Darius Hanks 9 160 17.8 1 35 22.9

Remarkably even distribution so far.

[Johnny Utah]

Saban seems to do a great job recruiting as well as gets a lot of effort every down on his teams. I hate to admit it but between Bama, Florida, LSU and even Arkansas they have some physical beasts that give great effort in that conference. We certainly have some players on our team that could play in that conference but I'm not sure about OUr O line other than Williams (I guess).

Good post ... you seem to be pointing to a potential trend.

[rainiersooner]

I don't know what the answers are - but they may be one or more of the following:

- Who knows how Alabama would have fared against BYU, Miami, or Texas (i.e., maybe their 6-0 record cannot be compared to our 3-3 record);

- Alabama recruits better players (that would be good to know because we can fix that by hiring better recruiters - or recruiting in a more time appropriate manner - for example, maybe we should have been a year ahead in filling out receivers anticipating the graduation of last year's class); or

- Alabama has a better line coach and receivers coach (I think that might be the case with the line, because I think our world class talent from years past underperformed; I don't think that's the case with our receivers, who have traditionally been very good).

Just some thoughts....

[Frozen Sooner]

I don't know what the answers are - but they may be one or more of the following:

- Who knows how Alabama would have fared against BYU, Miami, or Texas (i.e., maybe their 6-0 record cannot be compared to our 3-3 record);

- Alabama recruits better players (that would be good to know because we can fix that by hiring better recruiters - or recruiting in a more time appropriate manner - for example, maybe we should have been a year ahead in filling out receivers anticipating the graduation of last year's class); or

- Alabama has a better line coach and receivers coach (I think that might be the case with the line, because I think our world class talent from years past underperformed; I don't think that's the case with our receivers, who have traditionally been very good).

Just some thoughts....

Well, not to play the comparative scores game, but Alabama beat Virginia Tech, who crushed Miami (albeit in a deluge.)

[CaliBornSoonerBred]

they do waive players....the coaching staff calls it Camp Schmitty.

I.E. Jason Hannan. It wasn't well documented about why he left but long story short, I ended up having a few beers with him and some mutual friends a few weeks after he transferred and bottom line.....Camp Schmitty. The tone I got from him was that he was lazy and couldn't hack it. It made me personally question how much grief I had given as well as other posters about Duke and Phil being lazy because they sure as hell didn't bail like Hannan did.

[Scott D]

I.E. Jason Hannan. It wasn't well documented about why he left but long story short, I ended up having a few beers with him and some mutual friends a few weeks after he transferred and bottom line.....Camp Schmitty. The tone I got from him was that he was lazy and couldn't hack it. It made me personally question how much grief I had given as well as other posters about Duke and Phil being lazy because they sure as hell didn't bail like Hannan did.

Duke was rumored to be considering transferring early in his time at OU.

Flip side of that coin would be the kids who get injured to the point where they can't continue playing football.

[wishbonesooner]

Like we were in 2000, Bama is flat out hungry. Their players want it more than ours do. They have some good talent, they're coached well, and they want it bad. I think they'll beat Florida.

[CaliBornSoonerBred]

Like we were in 2000, Bama is flat out hungry. Their players want it more than ours do. They have some good talent, they're coached well, and they want it bad. I think they'll beat Florida.

^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^

They seem to be playing as a team and quietly handling their business. The way they go about things reminds me a lot of our 2000 team.

[CaliBornSoonerBred]

Duke was rumored to be considering transferring early in his time at OU.

Flip side of that coin would be the kids who get injured to the point where they can't continue playing football.

It really wouldn't shock me if he did consider it. I can't remember if it was him or Phil who got benched against Cincy? at home last year. I think the reasoning was the practice effort. Did the coaching staff just put up with it or what?

[Scott D]

I think people forget that during his Freshman year Duke was sitting pretty close to 400 lbs and showed little work ethic. The leap he made by his Soph. year was pretty impressive.

[gatorpower]

They're not asking McElroy to be as much of a game manager as they did JP Wilson, most of that is because McElroy is flat out better than Wilson was but it was more beneficial for McElroy to learn the offense in a backup role than supplant the loyal Bama guy in Wilson.

The evidence is there in the fact that Alabama's passing game is far more potent this year than it was last year despite the lack of production from Julio Jones.

I am surprised to hear this. I do not mean to interfere with the thread here, but the perception that Alabama has a much better offense this year is just not true. Landry Jones has also performed much better than McElroy this year.

McElroy's passing efficiency rating over the past three games is 93.885 (40/80, 2TD, 2INT, 387 yards). Jones' passing efficiency rating over his past three games, excluding Baylor when Bradford started, is 136.74 (67/110, 8TD, 4INT, 774 yards).

Alabama has also stalled to a three-and-out 29 times this year. Oklahoma has only done that 16 times. Alabama has also scored only 2 offensive touchdowns in the past two weeks.

It took 4 INTs and 1 fumble to help put Alabama's offense score against Ole Miss and had it not been for a pick-6 by Garcia in this past game against South Carolina, the game would have been tied 6-6 going into the 4th quarter.

Alabama's defense is lights out, like Oklahoma's, their offense has been wretched. Last year's offense was MUCH better.

[5thYearSooner]

I've brought it up over at another board and would like to hear some thoughts here...just football talk..no big whoop


Alabama replaced 7 starters on offense this year..They lost

3 starters on Oline (LT Smith, C Caldwell,RG Davis)
quarterback, who wasn't great, but was a 3 year starter none-the-less.
leading rusher Glen Coffee
Their top pass catching TE and top blocking TE

How do they manage this loss? They are undefeated so far and considered by many to be the best team in the country.

I've stated this before...This OU team was facing this season with the potential of losing Sam, Gerald, Jermaine, and Trent to the NFL anyway....

Why wasn't the others ready to play?

They knew who their players are. Had we known Gresham and Sam wouldnt be available this season, I believe things would have been a lot different. The expectations would have been lot lesser and our perspective would have been lot different. So yeah Saban did a good job even after losing 7 starters but he didn't lose his Key players with whom he practiced all spring.
Bottom Line: Injuries to Sam, Gresham. But Agree that its on coaches that they had to start 3 out of 4 New guys on OL.

[Frozen Sooner]

I am surprised to hear this. I do not mean to interfere with the thread here, but the perception that Alabama has a much better offense this year is just not true. Landry Jones has also performed much better than McElroy this year.

McElroy's passing efficiency rating over the past three games is 93.885 (40/80, 2TD, 2INT, 387 yards). Jones' passing efficiency rating over his past three games, excluding Baylor when Bradford started, is 136.74 (67/110, 8TD, 4INT, 774 yards).

Alabama has also stalled to a three-and-out 29 times this year. Oklahoma has only done that 16 times. Alabama has also scored only 2 offensive touchdowns in the past two weeks.

It took 4 INTs and 1 fumble to help put Alabama's offense score against Ole Miss and had it not been for a pick-6 by Garcia in this past game against South Carolina, the game would have been tied 6-6 going into the 4th quarter.

Alabama's defense is lights out, like Oklahoma's, their offense has been wretched. Last year's offense was MUCH better.

I notice you failed to mention that Mark Ingram is one of the leaders in the Heisman race (http://heismanpundit.com/) and that Alabama's rushing offense is 9th in the country.

McElroy's certainly struggled of late, no doubt. He did start pretty strong though.

[rainiersooner]

I notice you failed to mention that Mark Ingram is one of the leaders in the Heisman race (http://heismanpundit.com/) and that Alabama's rushing offense is 9th in the country.

McElroy's certainly struggled of late, no doubt. He did start pretty strong though.

Still a pretty interesting comparison between Landry and McElroy. My main issue with this line of thought is that in every single one of these games that we lost, there is probably one play that if it had gone differently, no one would ask why Alabama has enjoyed systematic success as compared to what is perceived as OU's systematic failure. As they say in statistics, be wary of the singular data points.

[rawlingsHOH]

It really wouldn't shock me if he did consider it. I can't remember if it was him or Phil who got benched against Cincy? at home last year. I think the reasoning was the practice effort. Did the coaching staff just put up with it or what?

It wasn't Phil.

[MrJimBeam]

As they say in statistics, be wary of the singular data points.

My Dad always said, "**** singular data points". But he was kinda out there, you know, doing his own thing.

This is a really good thread.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I think people forget that during his Freshman year Duke was sitting pretty close to 400 lbs and showed little work ethic. The leap he made by his Soph. year was pretty impressive.

Its also the reason he slipped from a late 1st round pick to the 5th round..his work ethic

[Frozen Sooner]

Still a pretty interesting comparison between Landry and McElroy. My main issue with this line of thought is that in every single one of these games that we lost, there is probably one play that if it had gone differently, no one would ask why Alabama has enjoyed systematic success as compared to what is perceived as OU's systematic failure. As they say in statistics, be wary of the singular data points.

It is. One of the major differences is that our offense this year was built around Sam's strengths and that's what our offensive playbook is built to maximize. They spent a great deal of practice time on what Sam likes to and can do. Landry just can't do some of those things right now and it results in a drastically smaller playbook.

On the other hand, Saban was well aware of McElroy's limitations going into the season and Alabama's playbook is built around the fact that he knew he was going to have an untested QB back there. As a result, Alabama runs the ball much more effectively than OU does.

It also bears some scrutiny that McElroy's last two starts have been vs South Carolina and Ole Miss, both of whom have top 25 defenses. Jones' last two starts have been against Tulsa and Idaho State.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Im glad you still refer to OU's as "ours" and not Alabama..I was starting to worry

[Position Limit]

the problem is OU's offense with the exception of a couple of players, is soft. playcalling doesnt seem to fit the abilities of the talent out on the field. when OU goes to run the ball, you got guys running in motion, another guy after the snap running god knows where, other wasted blockers and then chris brown slaming into the *** of one or our soft lineman. add in no attitude whatsoever. and last but not least, a group of assistants flailing thier arms like they're directing a jet plane for a landing. it's embarrassing.
alabama, on the other hand, plays hard as hell. they get the most out of every position on the field damn near every play. when they run the ball, everybody watching knows they will run it, and the get their yards anyway. why? they play hard. the kicking game, return game, running. everything. when a reciever goes to catch the ball he fights for it. he doesnt need a meatball lobbed his way for him to make a friggin catch. he's not soft.
it's really not that complicated to see the difference between these two teams.

[gatorpower]

I notice you failed to mention that Mark Ingram is one of the leaders in the Heisman race (http://heismanpundit.com/) and that Alabama's rushing offense is 9th in the country.

McElroy's certainly struggled of late, no doubt. He did start pretty strong though.

I was not talking about Alabama's running game, which is good. I'm talking about the ability for the offense to score points.

Like you said, Ingram is great. There are three running backs in the SEC this year and then the drop-off is dramatic. You have Mark Ingram (Alabama), Ben Tate (Auburn) and Montario Hardesty (Tennessee). All of them exceptional power backs.

If one were to dissect Ingram, I think most people would say he's a powerback and not a game-breaking back, which is good if you have a great defense and you're not 10-points behind, but as we saw with Utah last year, when Alabama gets more than 10 points behind (as was the case for most of the game), they get out of their comfort zone and are vulnerable.

To illustrate my point, excluding North Texas & FIU, Ingram has had 118 runs. If you break it down...

48.3% of his runs are 3-yards or less.
30.5% of his runs are between 4 yards and 10 yards.
21.2% of his runs are over 10 yards.

The last two numbers are the mark of a great back. When you're averaging more than 4 yards on half your runs, you're an exceptional running back. But you also have half his runs being 3-yards or less. So without a good passing game to compliment him, you get stuck in a lot of 3rd-and-long situations and Coach Saban is not going to run the ball on 3rd-and-long.

[wishbonesooner]

I've also noticed that if a Bama player misses a block or a defensive assignment, they will have a conversation with Saban that won't be pleasant. Kinda like we used to see.

[Blues1]

JMHO ~~~ We recruit just as Good as Bama -But sometimes it's just a matter of Luck....5 games over 60 points~and a few close to that ~Who has ever done that...??

Still R'

[wishbonesooner]

Good point blues, but some of those stats were against teams that couldn't play defense against air.

[Johnny Utah]

the problem is OU's offense with the exception of a couple of players, is soft. playcalling doesnt seem to fit the abilities of the talent out on the field. when OU goes to run the ball, you got guys running in motion, another guy after the snap running god knows where, other wasted blockers and then chris brown slaming into the *** of one or our soft lineman. add in no attitude whatsoever. and last but not least, a group of assistants flailing thier arms like they're directing a jet plane for a landing. it's embarrassing.
alabama, on the other hand, plays hard as hell. they get the most out of every position on the field damn near every play. when they run the ball, everybody watching knows they will run it, and the get their yards anyway. why? they play hard. the kicking game, return game, running. everything. when a reciever goes to catch the ball he fights for it. he doesnt need a meatball lobbed his way for him to make a friggin catch. he's not soft.
it's really not that complicated to see the difference between these two teams.

A very interesting assessment that won't get any arguments from yours truly. I saw the following somewhat similar thoughts on the Coaches Hotseat Blog (a good site that I think Badger turned us on to last season), but thought it best to keep it to myself ... until now.

One of the things that have been whispered around by Coaches Hot Seat members for a couple of years now is…



“Is Oklahoma getting soft?”



From where we sit one of the greatest dangers of the “spread” offense is that both the offensive and defensive teams can get away from hitting in practice and we have noticed in recent years that when Oklahoma does come up against a team that actually hits them in the mouth, they have almost always been stunned from the first snap of the game. One of the big secrets of college football is that BYU, Utah, Boise State and TCU are some of the hardest hitting and hardest tackling teams in college football today and it is not a big surprise to us that Oklahoma has lost to TCU, Boise State and BYU in recent years.



The reason that we here at Coaches Hot Seat are still asking the question, “Is Oklahoma getting soft?” is that it is not easy to see the Sooners practice and we really don’t know if OU does a lot of hitting during practice, but one thing we have noticed is that when they get into games against teams like BYU, the Sooner players seem to be very surprised that someone is out-hitting them at the line of scrimmage and point of attack. Yes, it was very clear in the BYU – Oklahoma game the other night that BYU at worst were equal to OU on hitting and tackling, but in reality the Cougars were whipping the Sooners up and down the line of scrimmage. We said in our preseason prediction on Oklahoma that the Sooners had better be ready to hit in the game against BYU and it looked to us that they were instead shocked from the first snap that the Cougars came to Dallas to win the football game, and we all know the rest of that story.



Getting back to the question poised here, “Is Oklahoma getting soft?” we can only look to the Big 12 and see Texas in the spread offense and not hitting as much as they used to, Texas Tech in the spread offense and never hitting a lot in practice, Missouri in the spread and not hitting as much as they used to, Kansas in the spread offense and hitting some in practice, Oklahoma State in the spread offense and starting to hit more since Bill Young arrived, Colorado in we don’t know what kind of offense and not really hitting at all in practice, Baylor in the spread and hitting some in practice, and Nebraska in the spread and probably hitting the most of anyone in the conference.



Doesn’t that sound like there is not a lot of hitting going on in practice in the Big 12? Yes it does, and then Oklahoma comes up against teams like BYU, TCU, Boise State, and even Florida that will pop you in the mouth and dare you to hit back and the Sooners really struggle in those games… Yes, that is the case and if someone made us answer the question…



“Is Oklahoma getting soft?”



Our answer to that question would be a big: YES



Maybe Bob Stoops should give that some thought as he considers why his Sooner football team got challenged the other night by a team that had a lot less talent but wasn’t going to back down and then beat OU. Yes, if we were Bob Stoops, we would spend a little less time working on formations and plays and a lot more time getting his team back to a point where they will actually line up and hit someone and tackle the opposing team like they are playing football instead of “Pick up Sticks.”



(Maybe Bob Stoops and his staff can get out the tape from the 2006 Oregon football game in Eugene when the Sooners got ripped off by some incompetent Pac-10 officials. A few of us from Coaches Hot Seat were on the Oklahoma sideline for that game and as we remember that game and watch a tape of it ourselves we see an Oklahoma football team that played with an aggressive and physical style that is absent from the Sooners today. Bob, watch that ’06 Oregon game and then watch a few tapes of Oklahoma play in recent years. Big difference Bob!)

Here's the link too:
http://coacheshotseat.com/coacheshotseatblog/?p=1206

[Blues1]

Good point blues, but some of those stats were against teams that couldn't play defense against air.

Yes I know ~~~ But....

**IF** (The Big IF) - We had Beat Florida last year (Which we should Have) Last year's team would have been known ~
("As The Greatest College Football Team of All Time")

That how F***king close we came.....It Still Hurts ~~~ :(

[TUSooner]

I could be dead wrong, but here goes:
Alabama plays a more disciplined, balanced, and conservative style of ball than OU does. They focus on defense and running, and they make fewer mistakes (that's due to Saban). There are fewer moving parts or "delicate" parts in the Bama machine. Alabama is like an AK-47 or that WWII Russian tank, the T-34 (or T-54?) - not terribly sophisticated, but sturdy, reliable, with high engineerng tolerances, and able to operate normally under extremely adverse conditions or with even a few pieces gone, because no one piece is essential. OU is like - I don't know - just some sophisticated piece of gear that performs magnificently when in tune, but one that will leave you defenseless or beside the road if just one or two critical parts break down.
Am I also saying Saban is better coach than Bob? Well, in some ways he is. He seems tougher and less tolerant of knucklehead play. Stoops's teams do not seem very well disciplined; they make too many mental mistakes and draw too many stupid penalites.
That's my read, and I haven't even stayed in a Holiday Inn Express.

Addendum re softness: A team that is trained to hit and play tough, can hit hard enough and play tough enough to win even when things are not clicking. A "softer" team like OU has nothing left to rely on if the finesse goes awry.

[VA Sooner]

Saban is a damn good recruiter and he's now competing with Miles and Meyer for the SEC. He was smart to open up the competition all across the board last year and had 10 freshman starting at various positions. Changes the work ethic tremendously.

Our o-line last year was All-World but it didn't leave much opportunity for backups to get time in... and now we pay the price. Rotate the newbies here and there but not enough time to gell and we start all over again. It's the part of the team that has to work as a group for everything else to work as well... holes for running backs, protection for the QB, screens, etc.

Bama has done an amazing job with the number of personnel they lost last year, including All-American Smith. My money is on them over Florida to get to the title game.... which would be fine by me.

[Johnny Utah]

Addendum re softness: A team that is trained to hit and play tough, can hit hard enough and play tough enough to win even when things are not clicking. A "softer" team like OU has nothing left to rely on if the finesse goes awry.

Great post imho. I think some of the best examples of this from the past 2 seasons are Hawaii and TX Tech, which both racked up the stats but folded against more physical competition.

[Position Limit]

more on softness. if i were an opposing reciever againt this defense, i would have absolutley no fear in catching a ball in the middle. or anywhere on the field for that matter. i know it is a completey safe catch will little possiblity of getting the s**t knocked out of me. i know i will be allowed to catch my pass and then i will be safely wrapped up and taken down. that's soft. under the circumstances this defense is to be applauded but there are no head hunters on that team.

[westbrooke]

more on softness. if i were an opposing reciever againt this defense, i would have absolutley no fear in catching a ball in the middle. or anywhere on the field for that matter. i know it is a completey safe catch will little possiblity of getting the s**t knocked out of me. i know i will be allowed to catch my pass and then i will be safely wrapped up and taken down. that's soft. under the circumstances this defense is to be applauded but there are no head hunters on that team.

Wasn't this supposed to be Quentin Carter? I think we all expected him to be delivering some knockout blows after that Missouri game last year, and it's disappointing that he hasn't. Even in the dark ages, we had a head hunter back there to level the unsuspecting. And the suspecting, for that matter. Gana Joseph anyone?

To be fair, I think we were much better at not conceding the pass in this last game, but this has been something that has frustrated me for a while and I won't believe we've given up this bad habit until I see us do otherwise for several games in a row. And now that you guys are saying it, the "softness" makes perfect sense, because it explains why I currently have a huge man crush (yeah, I said it) on Demarco Murray right now: he's lowering his shoulder and blasting people. He's welcoming the contact like he never has before. If only he could play 10 other positions at the same time...

[cheezyq]

Like we were in 2000, Bama is flat out hungry. Their players want it more than ours do. They have some good talent, they're coached well, and they want it bad. I think they'll beat Florida.

I guess I can't quite agree with this one. I agree that our players aren't always making plays, but I definitely think they're putting in effort. It's just missed opportunities and mistakes, which is way different than "not giving enough effort". I have my theories as to why, but regardless, I don't think that we're failing for a lack of trying.

[Scott D]

I am surprised to hear this. I do not mean to interfere with the thread here, but the perception that Alabama has a much better offense this year is just not true. Landry Jones has also performed much better than McElroy this year.

McElroy's passing efficiency rating over the past three games is 93.885 (40/80, 2TD, 2INT, 387 yards). Jones' passing efficiency rating over his past three games, excluding Baylor when Bradford started, is 136.74 (67/110, 8TD, 4INT, 774 yards).

Alabama has also stalled to a three-and-out 29 times this year. Oklahoma has only done that 16 times. Alabama has also scored only 2 offensive touchdowns in the past two weeks.

It took 4 INTs and 1 fumble to help put Alabama's offense score against Ole Miss and had it not been for a pick-6 by Garcia in this past game against South Carolina, the game would have been tied 6-6 going into the 4th quarter.

Alabama's defense is lights out, like Oklahoma's, their offense has been wretched. Last year's offense was MUCH better.

psst Gator. I was comparing the McElroy led Alabama passing game to the JP Wilson led Alabama passing game. Not to the Oklahoma passing game.

If I was going to compare receiver ineptness between two teams, it would likely be Oklahoma and Florida.

[rawlingsHOH]

Wasn't this supposed to be Quentin Carter? I think we all expected him to be delivering some knockout blows after that Missouri game last year, and it's disappointing that he hasn't. Even in the dark ages, we had a head hunter back there to level the unsuspecting. And the suspecting, for that matter. Gana Joseph anyone?


I'd rather have someone who can cover, rather than someone just looking to blow people up. With the exception of a few breakdowns, the secondary has been great.

[snp]

A very interesting assessment that won't get any arguments from yours truly. I saw the following somewhat similar thoughts on the Coaches Hotseat Blog (a good site that I think Badger turned us on to last season), but thought it best to keep it to myself ... until now.

It's been around a lot longer than that. CHS is a great website but this commentary is so off base.



One of the things that have been whispered around by Coaches Hot Seat members for a couple of years now is…

“Is Oklahoma getting soft?”

From where we sit one of the greatest dangers of the “spread” offense is that both the offensive and defensive teams can get away from hitting in practice and we have noticed in recent years that when Oklahoma does come up against a team that actually hits them in the mouth, they have almost always been stunned from the first snap of the game.

Oklahoma's practices are about as hard hitting and physical as you'll see across the nation. The author has obviously never been allowed to see an OU practice (I've been to many), but he continues and so will I:


One of the big secrets of college football is that BYU, Utah, Boise State and TCU are some of the hardest hitting and hardest tackling teams in college football today

BYU, Utah both run a spread. But they're exempt from his previous theorey that spread offenses induce softness?


and it is not a big surprise to us that Oklahoma has lost to TCU, Boise State and BYU in recent years.

Lumping all three games together instead of looking at these games individually makes sense. It's not like there were a number of extenuating circumstances leading into any of these games.


The reason that we here at Coaches Hot Seat are still asking the question, “Is Oklahoma getting soft?” is that it is not easy to see the Sooners practice and we really don’t know if OU does a lot of hitting during practice,

Then you should probably STOP TALKING. And continue to ignore stuff like OU was a spread passing team in 2000 when they were known as the hardest hitting team in college football. OU was not a spread team in 2005 or 2006, we were a power and zone-rushing offense. But let's not let more inaccuracies stand in the way.


but one thing we have noticed is that when they get into games against teams like BYU, the Sooner players seem to be very surprised that someone is out-hitting them at the line of scrimmage and point of attack. Yes, it was very clear in the BYU – Oklahoma game the other night that BYU at worst were equal to OU on hitting and tackling, but in reality the Cougars were whipping the Sooners up and down the line of scrimmage. We said in our preseason prediction on Oklahoma that the Sooners had better be ready to hit in the game against BYU and it looked to us that they were instead shocked from the first snap that the Cougars came to Dallas to win the football game, and we all know the rest of that story.

Yea, replacing 100 combined starts on an offensive line is no big deal. But please pat yourself on the back for guessing that it'd be a close game. You obviously predicted the injury to Bradford.


Getting back to the question poised here, “Is Oklahoma getting soft?” we can only look to the Big 12 and see Texas in the spread offense and not hitting as much as they used to, Texas Tech in the spread offense and never hitting a lot in practice, Missouri in the spread and not hitting as much as they used to, Kansas in the spread offense and hitting some in practice, Oklahoma State in the spread offense and starting to hit more since Bill Young arrived, Colorado in we don’t know what kind of offense and not really hitting at all in practice, Baylor in the spread and hitting some in practice, and Nebraska in the spread and probably hitting the most of anyone in the conference.

"Spread, spread, spread! I still don't have any evidence for what I'm saying and I'm mislabeling teams, but spread is a cool buzzword!"


Doesn’t that sound like there is not a lot of hitting going on in practice in the Big 12? Yes it does, and then Oklahoma comes up against teams like BYU, TCU, Boise State, and even Florida that will pop you in the mouth and dare you to hit back and the Sooners really struggle in those games… Yes, that is the case and if someone made us answer the question…

Again, Florida plays through the spread offense. Amazing that OU struggles against four teams that have combined to lose 4 games in the stretch we're talking about.


“Is Oklahoma getting soft?”
Our answer to that question would be a big: YES

And yet you've never set foot on the OU practice field.


Maybe Bob Stoops should give that some thought as he considers why his Sooner football team got challenged the other night by a team that had a lot less talent but wasn’t going to back down and then beat OU. Yes, if we were Bob Stoops, we would spend a little less time working on formations and plays and a lot more time getting his team back to a point where they will actually line up and hit someone and tackle the opposing team like they are playing football instead of “Pick up Sticks.”

You mean like, when OU was a strictly spread-offense and not the multi-dimensional offense they are now.


(Maybe Bob Stoops and his staff can get out the tape from the 2006 Oregon football game in Eugene when the Sooners got ripped off by some incompetent Pac-10 officials. A few of us from Coaches Hot Seat were on the Oklahoma sideline for that game and as we remember that game and watch a tape of it ourselves we see an Oklahoma football team that played with an aggressive and physical style that is absent from the Sooners today. Bob, watch that ’06 Oregon game and then watch a few tapes of Oklahoma play in recent years. Big difference Bob!)

"Let me pretend I know what I'm talking about because I attended an OU game 3 years ago"

OU had several shutdown defensive performances since that game.

Here's the link too:
http://coacheshotseat.com/coacheshotseatblog/?p=1206

Like I said, CHS is a great website but this piece is just trash.

[rawlingsHOH]

(Maybe Bob Stoops and his staff can get out the tape from the 2006 Oregon football game in Eugene when the Sooners got ripped off by some incompetent Pac-10 officials. A few of us from Coaches Hot Seat were on the Oklahoma sideline for that game and as we remember that game and watch a tape of it ourselves we see an Oklahoma football team that played with an aggressive and physical style that is absent from the Sooners today. Bob, watch that ’06 Oregon game and then watch a few tapes of Oklahoma play in recent years. Big difference Bob!)
LAUGHABLE! The defense was like a sieve that day. Couldn't tackle anyone, for crying out loud!

The only thing more physical about that day was Adrian Peterson. Yeah, you're right, I wish he still played.

[westbrooke]

I'd rather have someone who can cover, rather than someone just looking to blow people up. With the exception of a few breakdowns, the secondary has been great.

Oh, me too. But I'd very much like someone who can do both. :)

[Johnny Utah]

It's been around a lot longer than that. CHS is a great website but this commentary is so off base.



Oklahoma's practices are about as hard hitting and physical as you'll see across the nation. The author has obviously never been allowed to see an OU practice (I've been to many), but he continues and so will I:



BYU, Utah both run a spread. But they're exempt from his previous theorey that spread offenses induce softness?



Lumping all three games together instead of looking at these games individually makes sense. It's not like there were a number of extenuating circumstances leading into any of these games.



Then you should probably STOP TALKING. And continue to ignore stuff like OU was a spread passing team in 2000 when they were known as the hardest hitting team in college football. OU was not a spread team in 2005 or 2006, we were a power and zone-rushing offense. But let's not let more inaccuracies stand in the way.



Yea, replacing 100 combined starts on an offensive line is no big deal. But please pat yourself on the back for guessing that it'd be a close game. You obviously predicted the injury to Bradford.



"Spread, spread, spread! I still don't have any evidence for what I'm saying and I'm mislabeling teams, but spread is a cool buzzword!"



Again, Florida plays through the spread offense. Amazing that OU struggles against four teams that have combined to lose 4 games in the stretch we're talking about.



And yet you've never set foot on the OU practice field.



You mean like, when OU was a strictly spread-offense and not the multi-dimensional offense they are now.



Like I said, CHS is a great website but this piece is just trash.

Good job breaking down the breakdown. As I indicated I was just being the messenger, so it's good to know that there are those on this board that can factually refute stuff like this. Additionally, I know CHS has been around for awhile ... I justg became aware of it last season through another SF poster.