For those who say Switzer won all the big games... [Archive]

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IGotNoTiming

10/19/2009, 10:27 AM

Please see the following...

Year Team Overall Conference Standing Bowl Coaches# AP°
1973 Oklahoma 10-0-1 7-0-0 1st None 2nd 3rd
1974 Oklahoma 11-0 7-0 1st N/A N/A 1st
1975 Oklahoma 11-1 6-1 2nd W/W 1st 1st
1976 Oklahoma 9-2-1 5-2 3rd None 5th 6th
1977 Oklahoma 10-2 7-0 1st L 7th 6th
1978 Oklahoma 11-1 6-1 1st W 3rd 3rd
1979 Oklahoma 11-1 7-0 1st W 3rd 3rd
1980 Oklahoma 10-2 7-0 1st W 3rd 3rd
1981 Oklahoma 7-4-1 4-2-1 2nd W 20th 14th
1982 Oklahoma 8-4 6-1 2nd L 16th 16th
1983 Oklahoma 8-4 5-2 3rd None N/R N/R
1984 Oklahoma 9-2 6-1 2nd L 6th 6th
1985 Oklahoma 10-1 7-0 1st W 1st 1st
1986 Oklahoma 11-1 7-0 1st W 3rd 3rd
1987 Oklahoma 11-1 7-0 1st L 3rd 3rd
1988 Oklahoma 9-3 6-1 2nd L 14th 14th

Please take note of the years 1981- 1983. My point is this. He was great and yes even he had mediocre years. My gut tells me if Barry were enduring that stretch of sub-par seasons in this day and age... the same posters who are questioning Stoops ability to win would be all over Barry's *** questioning his coaching ability. Programs HAVE to go through a natural cycle... it's an ebb and flow... some years are better than others.

The same can be found about Bud Wilkinson's record... the last several years of his tenure were marred by several sub-par seasons....

We just have to deal with it... Like the feeling you get after eating way too much mexican food... eventually this too will pass.

stoops the eternal pimp

10/19/2009, 10:35 AM

people get better every year that they are gone..

Switzer gets a little better
Mike Stoops gets better
Mangino gets better
Leach gets better

and every year you stay, you get worse...

JLEW1818

10/19/2009, 10:36 AM

sounds about right

IGotNoTiming

10/19/2009, 10:37 AM

I couldn't agree with you more.....

CaliBornSoonerBred

10/19/2009, 10:38 AM

Barry was almost fired during that stretch and wasn't it said that the board of regents said if he had another 8-4 year he was gone? He then delivered #6two years later.

IGotNoTiming

10/19/2009, 10:49 AM

cheezyq

10/19/2009, 10:50 AM

It's amazing the lengths that people go to, on here, to pump sunshine. Honestly, there WOULD be a lot of people criticizing those coaches...and guess what? There WERE a lot of people criticizing Switzer. I'm going to go way out on a limb here and say that people probably criticized John Wooden and Vince Lombardi, too.

Where you need to learn to draw the line is understanding that people like to talk about football. And people like to discuss issues, which includes problems. People also like to discuss the present, not the past, probably because it's what is relevant. This goes for politics, religion, everything. People like to try and figure out what's wrong. Guess what, I'm not a politician either. I suppose that precludes me from having a valid opinion on healthcare, too?

It's never going to change, no matter how hard you try to quell it. Quit crying about it and do some counter-analysis for once. Or just shut up.

IGotNoTiming

10/19/2009, 10:55 AM

cheezyQ....

I am not sure who that is aimed at... but it appears that what is going on on in this thread IS talking about football... am I missing something?

CaliBornSoonerBred

10/19/2009, 10:58 AM

Well Cali- one could argue then that a premature firing would of resulted in less national championships for OU. You or I will never know the exact details of what went on behind admin doors with Barry. But my hunch is that Barry probably coached the same he always had and that things went better after that.

I hope you are not implying that Bob, one season removed from playing for the national championship, needs that kind of pressure from the admin at this point.....

that...

would....

be...

ludicrous

I am in no way saying Bob needs the type of pressure on him threatening his job but we all on here see faults with the coaching staff and things that could possibly be done differently. That's the beauty of the discussions on here. BUT every great coach has pressure, praise, criticism, glory, and pit falls and I think it's time Bob and/or the coaching staff have some of the stuff that has been mentioned on this board pointed out, which most are extremely valid points. I want no one else in the country running the football team of the University I love so dearly......but accountability needs to put in place.

cheezyq

10/19/2009, 10:58 AM

Just tired of everyone crying about coach criticism. Kinda figured that this thread was another one of those. That's all.

StoopTroup

10/19/2009, 11:00 AM

Leach isn't getting better...

stoops the eternal pimp

10/19/2009, 11:10 AM

in a lot people's eyes, he is a better OC now than he was then....

its just the nature of football...Everybody wants a guy who has left, and wants a guy who is here to go away

boomermagic

10/19/2009, 11:11 AM

Don't take this the wrong way.. I think Bob is a fine coach and I sure don't want him to go anywhere.. Barry IMO was one of the best coaches to ever step on a football field anywhere..

IGotNoTiming

10/19/2009, 11:11 AM

Wishboned

10/19/2009, 11:15 AM

I remember the early 80's.

People were screaming for Barry's head. Claims that he'd lost it. One of the radio sportscasters would start off every report with "Barry you're breakin' my heart."

The Maestro

10/19/2009, 11:27 AM

About ten years into his coaching tenure Switz hit a rough patch. But that was after winning two straight titles and owning Nebraska until that stretch.

Switz lost to passing offenses like Stanford and West Virginia...cause the Big 8 never saw offenses like that.

Stoops' mark this far into his career is impressive, but no better than third place at OU, way behind Switz and Wilkinson.

Sooner04

10/19/2009, 11:38 AM

Switzer's down stretch can be linked to one missed recruit: Turner Gill. That was it. That was the down stretch. If he gets Gill you've never got the whole Shepard/Phelps QB rotation of death.

He signs a monster recruiting class in '83 and redshirts them.
He signs a monster recruiting class in '84 and plays them alongside the redshirts from '83.

And the train gets back to rolling.

MamaMia

10/19/2009, 11:40 AM

Re: For those who say Switzer won all the big games... Do you have a link because I must have missed that post.

IGotNoTiming

10/19/2009, 11:47 AM

Mama I was referring to the stats I listed in my first thread.....

C&CDean

10/19/2009, 11:50 AM

Just tired of everyone crying about coach criticism. Kinda figured that this thread was another one of those. That's all.

Let me get this straight. Whining like a little bitch about every call KW makes or Vulnerable's defense = intelligent football talk.

Calling out the whiney bitches for being completely clueless about what they're whining about doesn't = intelligent football talk.

Got it.

Just for the record, KW has been dealt the ****tiest hand an OC at OU has had in many a year. How the hell do you expect him to call plays when it's consistently 1st & 20 or 1st and 15 damn near every possession? How do you expect him to call plays when the O-line whiffs on every other block? How do you expect him to call plays when the receivers drop double-digit passes? I won't even go into the injuries to all the key players.

A lot of **** has gone down this year - most bad. To me, the only bright spot has been our coaching. Our players have not executed, and I know how we don't like to bash them (and I won't by name or individually), but our players are soft, have no ****ing pride, and let themselves get pushed around - especially on offense. THAT is why we've looked like dog**** this year.

beer4me

10/19/2009, 11:53 AM

Don't remember reading anywhere that anyone said Switzer won all the big games?

The Maestro

10/19/2009, 11:54 AM

How the hell do you expect him to call plays when it's consistently 1st & 20 or 1st and 15 damn near every possession? How do you expect him to call plays when the O-line whiffs on every other block? How do you expect him to call plays when the receivers drop double-digit passes? I won't even go into the injuries to all the key players.

A lot of **** has gone down this year - most bad. To me, the only bright spot has been our coaching. Our players have not executed, and I know how we don't like to bash them (and I won't by name or individually), but our players are soft, have no ****ing pride, and let themselves get pushed around - especially on offense. THAT is why we've looked like dog**** this year.

Worst injury luck ever...on that, I agree. But some of this stuff you just listed above...um...is a coaching issue.

C&CDean

10/19/2009, 11:59 AM

Worst injury luck ever...on that, I agree. But some of this stuff you just listed above...um...is a coaching issue.

How many games have you attended this year? Have you gone back and looked at film? Our O-line - as a group - is the worst O-line I think I've ever seen at OU. I believe they have the talent, however, they're constantly doing the bonehead dance. How many ****ing times are you gonna jump? How many ****ing times are you gonna blatantly hold because you're not moving your feet and gotta grab a D-lineman by the jersey? How many times are you gonna pull the wrong way or take the wrong assignment? Seriously, it's a wonder we have any QBs or RBs left.

tulsaoilerfan

10/19/2009, 12:01 PM

Obviously we have a lot of 4 stars that for some reason have just not panned out yet

C&CDean

10/19/2009, 12:08 PM

Obviously we have a lot of 4 stars that for some reason have just not panned out yet

Obviously. Of course if KW is coaching them to be boneheads then I'd go for the coach hate. I'm pretty sure that ain't happening though.

cheezyq

10/19/2009, 12:13 PM

cheezyq-fair enough....

I guess my point a generality... a big picture view. I am aware of how people feel about the x's and o's decisions of the current coaching staff. I am by no means trying to shut down that discussion AT ALL. I enjoy reading all the posts whether I agree with them or not... it is part of what makes this board cool as hell. Sorry if you don't agree with my post. I won't tell you to shut the hell up... but differing opinions is why this board exists...

Yeah, guess you haven't been around much for all the other whining that goes on, where people gripe that we're trying to run the coaches out of town, or that we're not coaches so our opinions aren't valid, and the like....you would think that differing opinions is why this place exists, but there are a lot of crybabies around here who get offended at the slightest criticism of anything.

Just a misunderstanding on my part of the purpose of the thread. For the record, I was technically agreeing with you, just having a different take on it. No worries.

IGotNoTiming

10/19/2009, 12:22 PM

cheezyq- no prob...

actually I have been around this board since about 99 or 00. I used to post under a different name. I stopped coming for a few years cause I had 2 kids and I guess the board underwent a lot of changes and my old signature didn't work, so I created this one in 2006.. at least I think it was then

IGotNoTiming

10/19/2009, 12:26 PM

The Maestro

10/19/2009, 12:26 PM

How many games have you attended this year? Have you gone back and looked at film? Our O-line - as a group - is the worst O-line I think I've ever seen at OU. I believe they have the talent, however, they're constantly doing the bonehead dance. How many ****ing times are you gonna jump? How many ****ing times are you gonna blatantly hold because you're not moving your feet and gotta grab a D-lineman by the jersey? How many times are you gonna pull the wrong way or take the wrong assignment? Seriously, it's a wonder we have any QBs or RBs left.

I couldn't agree more. I guess this is just a chicken vs. egg issue. I just know when the line sucked like this under Blake and Schnelly we blamed Blake and Schnelly.

MamaMia

10/19/2009, 12:28 PM

Mama I was referring to the stats I listed in my first thread.....
I know I've compared Switzer to Stoops but I don't think any coach has ever won all the big games, not even Switzer. :D

That being said I always try to take what people say with a grain of salt during post game emotion peaking times even though my own emotions are peaking as well. :O

MyT Oklahoma

10/19/2009, 12:33 PM

No OU coach has ever won all of his big games but the King always won more than his share.. except for 1981.. 1982 and 1983. That is why he is still so fondly remembered.

cheezyq

10/19/2009, 12:33 PM

Let me get this straight. Whining like a little bitch about every call KW makes or Vulnerable's defense = intelligent football talk.

Calling out the whiney bitches for being completely clueless about what they're whining about doesn't = intelligent football talk.

Got it.

Just for the record, KW has been dealt the ****tiest hand an OC at OU has had in many a year. How the hell do you expect him to call plays when it's consistently 1st & 20 or 1st and 15 damn near every possession? How do you expect him to call plays when the O-line whiffs on every other block? How do you expect him to call plays when the receivers drop double-digit passes? I won't even go into the injuries to all the key players.

A lot of **** has gone down this year - most bad. To me, the only bright spot has been our coaching. Our players have not executed, and I know how we don't like to bash them (and I won't by name or individually), but our players are soft, have no ****ing pride, and let themselves get pushed around - especially on offense. THAT is why we've looked like dog**** this year.

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136007&page=2

Please tell me what's "whining" about my post in that one. To me, I'm not claiming to be always right, but I like to think that I have a pretty good analysis of things. I know football, I played football, and I'm reasonably intelligent. Did I call for anyone's job? Did I say that our coaches suck?

Yet, posts like the one in that thread are exactly the posts that you and others continually roast people for. No coach is perfect. And the reality is that the COACH is getting paid to do a job, and we are the customers. Therefore, I think it's more than reasonable to have an opinion on them...even if the opinion is that they suck. Some people go overboard, yes. But the people who get screamed at around here are the ones providing real analysis, based on real events...like you are doing right now. You lump us in with the other losers, and write posts like the above.

And you know what? I totally agree that this season has been defined more by bad luck than bad coaching. Injuries suck. I'd sit here and gripe and whine about that, too, if I were so inclined. But those are things that are out of a team's control, and in the end that feels a LOT more like whining than trying to come up with a solution. I choose to try and look at the source of a consistent problem, and try to figure out what is behind it. You can focus on the drops, the missed blocks, the fumbles, and the missed tackles if you want. The fact that these things happen over multiple seasons with different players supersedes the blame being handed out to the players (most of the time). I'll give you that things like the muff by Franks and other things are a part of the problem. Like my sig says, though, a lot of what looks like player issues can be attributed to coaching mistakes.

But that's me, and if having an opinion that chooses to focus on the root of problems, rather than the symptoms, makes me a whiner in your eyes, I'm cool with that. But I'll throw the whining BS right back in your face.

Leroy Lizard

10/19/2009, 12:34 PM

I don't think anyone is calling for Stoops' head. But if he loses again to UT next year, a lot of people around the nation are going to be calling him "Mack Brown's bitch."

SOONER44EVER

10/19/2009, 12:54 PM

Switzer may not have won all the big games, but he won most of them. And he won most of the close ones too. Stoops can't seem to win a close game.

MyT Oklahoma

10/19/2009, 12:54 PM

I don't think anyone is calling for Stoops' head. But if he loses again to UT next year, a lot of people around the nation are going to be calling him "Mack Brown's bitch."

Some people probably already are.

rawlingsHOH

10/19/2009, 12:59 PM

people get better every year that they are gone..

Switzer gets a little better
Mike Stoops gets better
Mangino gets better
Leach gets better

and every year you stay, you get worse...
This

Blues1

10/19/2009, 01:00 PM

Just a Reminder ~~ At "One Time" Bud Won all his Big Games ~~ 47 of them.... :) Plus he also had 31 game Win Streak Before the 47 Win Streak...
**That's Why we are Spoiled**....If It wasn't for Bud this Board would look more Like a Board from the Ivy League teams....Every college team in Southwest and Now the Big 12 owe Bud Wilkinson a BIG Thank You for making this region of football something to talk about every College Football Season. As Barry Said "Bud Created The Monster" (Barry - Bob - Tom Osboure - Mac Brown - Bob Devaney - and Now Crazy Leach are Feeding The Little Monsters...!

Have Fun & Keep Rockin'

rawlingsHOH

10/19/2009, 01:02 PM

Stoops' mark this far into his career is impressive, but no better than third place at OU, way behind Switz and Wilkinson.
What Stoops has done, inside the Big 12, is more impressive to me than anything Bud or Barry accomplished in the Big 6/8.

On the national level, you'd have to give the nod to Bud and Barry, but it is still close.

One of Bud's national titles, they lost the bowl game. One of Barry's, he didn't even have to play a bowl. Little different set of circumstances now.

SbOrOiNaEnR

10/19/2009, 01:03 PM

So what would be a good bumper sticker indicating our overwhelming desire to kick our coach to the curb? Fairbanks had "Chuck Chuck," Switzer trademarked "Bury Barry" to prevent @$$hats from printing those.

The best I can come up with is "Lob Bob," but that's beyond lame. Thoughts?

And for the not-so-bright, rest assured that tongue is planted firmly in cheek.

Pricetag

10/19/2009, 01:22 PM

A lot of **** has gone down this year - most bad. To me, the only bright spot has been our coaching. Our players have not executed, and I know how we don't like to bash them (and I won't by name or individually), but our players are soft, have no ****ing pride, and let themselves get pushed around - especially on offense. THAT is why we've looked like dog**** this year.
The softness and lack of pride scares the bejeezus out of me. Where does it come from? Is it institutional, or are we just missing that badly on recruits?

KantoSooner

10/19/2009, 01:32 PM

I'm not sure I get the whole 'lack of pride' thing. Anybody looking at the faces of Demarco or Sam when they got hurt and couldn't contribute to their potential would not conclude that either of those two, at least, were lackadaisical.

Sooner04

10/19/2009, 01:35 PM

I will say this about Switzer: he was the greatest close game coach who ever lived.

In games decided by four points or less: 19-4-4.

In games decided by three points or less: 15-1-4.

Stoops has lost three times as many games by three points or less this year as Switzer did in his entire career.

stoops the eternal pimp

10/19/2009, 01:36 PM

Stoops is 4-9 in games decided by 3 points or less....

rawlingsHOH

10/19/2009, 01:42 PM

Switzer was definitely better in the close game. Best ever, anywhere.

Though vs. ranked opponents Stoops' record is probably more impressive than Barry's, and I know was better than Bud's.

TXBOOMER

10/19/2009, 02:57 PM

people get better every year that they are gone..

Switzer gets a little better
Mike Stoops gets better
Mangino gets better
Leach gets better

and every year you stay, you get worse...

Lots of truth here.

the_ouskull

10/19/2009, 03:40 PM

A lot of **** has gone down this year - most bad. To me, the only bright spot has been our coaching. Our players have not executed, and I know how we don't like to bash them (and I won't by name or individually), but our players are soft, have no ****ing pride, and let themselves get pushed around - especially on offense. THAT is why we've looked like dog**** this year.

Genius. This is what I am trying to say with most of my posts. I just know too many big words. Genius.

the_ouskull

Taxman71

10/19/2009, 03:45 PM

Barry was almost fired during that stretch and wasn't it said that the board of regents said if he had another 8-4 year he was gone? He then delivered #6two years later.

IIRC, an SI article circa 1986 documented that, after the 1981-1983 seasons, Switzer recommitted himself by showing up to all the practices, being more hands on and ***gulp*** hired Mack Brown as OC to fix our offense. It paid off until the inmates ran loose in 1988/89 and the admin forced him out.

Don't know if Stoops is doing anything different than he did in years past, but this team does not seem to have the Stoops' (as shown by Bob and Mike over the years) fire in their belly. We are looking more like FSU 10 years ago with more attention on NFL futures than NC's.

That said, we came this close to winning the crystal 10 months ago.

Johnny Utah

10/19/2009, 03:47 PM

Our players have not executed, and I know how we don't like to bash them (and I won't by name or individually), but our players are soft, have no ****ing pride, and let themselves get pushed around - especially on offense. THAT is why we've looked like dog**** this year.

The play on the field would indicate this but, more importantly, why do you think this is? Players can improve on their execution, but being soft, having no pride, and letting themselves get pushed around would seem to indicate deeper problems.

VA Sooner

10/19/2009, 04:10 PM

I remember those years... 80's.

Need patience... all of us. It will come through.

And this season is far from lost... we have a stellar defense that will carry us far.

Patience.

MyT Oklahoma

10/19/2009, 04:16 PM

I remember those years... 80's.

Need patience... all of us. It will come through.

And this season is far from lost... we have a stellar defense that will carry us far.

Patience.

^^ Seconded. Duly seconded.

IGotNoTiming

10/19/2009, 05:25 PM

I think we also have to take into account that every set of players is different. New individuals, anew system to learn for the freshman and transfers. Some people adapt better than others. It is readily apparent that how individual progresses through a system will determine his success. We may be giving too much credit to players based on past performances by other players. Not everyone is going to be a Rocky Calmus, Tommy Harris, Teddy Lehman, Josh Heupal, Mark Clayton, Adrian Peterson, etc etc....
I am confidant enough in this staff to teach the fundamentals of the game and to get the most out of players at the right time, but sometimes the players either develop more slowly than others or unfortunately never pick up what is trying to be taught them. Coaches then have to try and make maximum use of the available resources and sometimes those resources are deeper than others.

That being said I could be totally wrong

boomermagic

10/19/2009, 07:39 PM

Barry will always be my favorite..

wishbonesooner

10/19/2009, 08:21 PM

Barry won games when he didn't have the best team on the field.
Oh wait, I'm whiney. My bad.

goingoneight

10/19/2009, 10:34 PM

I don't think we're soft or have a lack of pride, or else we could have let BYU, Miami and Texas run us flat over ala 55-19, 48-28, etc. This team is trying their damndest, they just have to work and play through it like Stoops said. What did 2005 and 2006 teach us? The harder they work in the systems, the quicker they get back to the 2003, 2004, 2007 and 2008-kinda freakishly good Stoops teams.

Jdog

10/19/2009, 11:02 PM

Barry was almost fired during that stretch and wasn't it said that the board of regents said if he had another 8-4 year he was gone? He then delivered #6two years later.

yes and then he got put on double secret probation.

Jdog

10/19/2009, 11:04 PM

Soonerus

10/19/2009, 11:04 PM

What was the lesson from 2000?

No injuries....

Leroy Lizard

10/19/2009, 11:29 PM

In games decided by three points or less: 15-1-4.

What's crazy about this is that Switzer, in 16 years, never got beat by a field goal.

rawlingsHOH

10/19/2009, 11:50 PM

No injuries....

No doubt!

sooners2win

10/20/2009, 12:13 AM

Leach isn't getting better...

I love his tiny play sheet though ;)

Soonersince57

10/20/2009, 09:37 AM