Go Joe Go!

[Turd_Ferguson]

PHOENIX — An Arizona sheriff known for cracking down on people who are in the country illegally launched a crime and immigration sweep in northwestern metro Phoenix on Friday, a half day after officials in Washington limited his powers to make federal immigration arrests.
Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio, whose sweeps have led to allegations of racial profiling, said the rebuff from Washington won't stop him. He said he can still arrest immigrants under a state smuggling law and a federal law that gives all local police agencies more limited power to detain suspected illegal immigrants.
"It doesn't bother me, because we are going to do the same thing," said Arpaio, whose deputies had arrested 16 people by Friday evening on unspecified charges. "I am the elected sheriff. I don't take orders from the federal government."
The officers were participating in a federal program that grants a limited number of local police departments special powers to make immigration arrests and speed up deportation. U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement stripped Arpaio of his power to let 100 deputies make federal immigration arrests, but renewed another agreement that allows 60 jails officers to determine the immigration status of people in jail.
The sheriff's sweeps in some heavily Latino areas of metro Phoenix have drawn criticism that Arpaio's deputies racially profile people. Arpaio said people pulled over in the sweeps were approached because deputies had probable cause to believe they had committed crimes and that it was only afterward that deputies found many of them were illegal immigrants.

The U.S. Department of Justice is investigating Arpaio's office over allegations of discrimination and unconstitutional searches and seizures.
"He is doing this to thumb his nose at the Obama administration," said Lydia Guzman, president of the Hispanic civil rights group Somos America.
The sweeps have discouraged some Hispanics who have witnessed or been victims of crime to refuse to call Arpaio's deputies, for fear of mistreatment, Guzman said.
Observers who are part of Guzman's group fanned out across the area of the sweeps with video cameras to record exchanges between deputies and motorists.
Arpaio said volunteers will use cameras owned by his agency to video-record deputies so viewers can see for themselves that they weren't doing anything wrong. Arpaio responded angrily to a question during a news conference about the costs of the cameras, saying they were paid through seizures in drug cases. "Dope peddlers bought the cameras," Arpaio said.
A dozen anti-Arpaio protesters yelled throughout the news conference. At one point, they chanted: "Order equals K-K-K — here's what Arpaio has to say."
Kris Kobach, a law professor at the University of Missouri at Kansas City and an advocate of expanding local immigration efforts, said Arpaio's office — like every other local police agency — can detain people suspected of immigration violations for a day or two until federal authorities come to pick them up.
In the past, Arpaio could have held such immigrants for longer than two days and conducted investigations of smuggling rings, Kobach said.
"It's really a slight narrowing, but it's not much," said Kobach, who worked as an immigration law adviser to then-U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft from 2001-2003.
Dan Pochoda, legal director for the American Civil Liberties Union, which is representing people who filed a lawsuit over the sweeps, said Arpaio still can't pull over motorists solely because they are suspected of being illegal immigrants.
"He can't do it under the terms he is claiming. He has indicated that he can stop people without the suspicion, based on what they look like, what they sound like," Pochoda said.
Arpaio said the Bush administration had no complaints about his use of the special federal powers, but all that has changed with the Obama administration.
"What's changed?" Arpaio asked. "Politics has changed, because they don't like us going on the streets to catch illegals."
This round of sweep, Arpaio's 12th, is set to end late Saturday.
:pop:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,567902,00.html

[SoonerNate]

Joe for President!

[yermom]

papers please.

i'm sorry, but looking Hispanic is not probable cause.

i'm all for deporting criminals, but i'm not really down with taking people in for Driving While Brown

[Turd_Ferguson]

papers please.

i'm sorry, but looking Hispanic is not probable cause.

i'm all for deporting criminals, but i'm not really down with taking people in for Driving While BrownHmmm...so there taking people in for driving while brown? Funny, I didn't see that in the article. I thought they were taking in people that were not only driving illegally, but in the country illegally.:confused:

[StoopTroup]

I'm surprised he's still alive.

Not that he isn't trying to do the right thing...but he's made himself such a target.

[yermom]

Hmmm...so there taking people in for driving while brown? Funny, I didn't see that in the article. I thought they were taking in people that were not only driving illegally, but in the country illegally.:confused:


"He can't do it under the terms he is claiming. He has indicated that he can stop people without the suspicion, based on what they look like, what they sound like," Pochoda said.

sounds like DWB to me

[Penguin]

If the county and sheriff wants to use their resources and time to enforce federal immigration laws, that's fine with me.

I just disagree with people saying that the feds should be able to mandate local communities to do ICE's job and not give them a penny to help or a detention facility to hold the illegal aliens.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Sacramento police chief says legalize undocumented immigrants
[email protected]
Published Thursday, Oct. 22, 2009

http://media.sacbee.com/smedia/2009/10/22/16/RP_RICK_BRAZIEL_PORT.embedded.prod_affiliate.4.JPG

It's time to legalize millions of undocumented immigrants who are productive, law-abiding citizens - the public's safety depends on it - Sacramento Police Chief Rick Braziel said Thursday.

In a telephonic press conference with several other law enforcement officials and in an interview with The Bee, Braziel - who has 30 years of law enforcement experience - said that crimes ranging from home invasions to hit-and-run drunken driving are going unsolved because undocumented witnesses are afraid to testify for fear of being deported.

"They're either victims or witnesses in crimes or accidents, but they don't come forward - you have a population of criminals who understand that and actually prey on folks knowing they're not going to call us."

Sacramento police will assist federal immigration officials in tracking down undocumented immigrants suspected of serious crimes, but will not routinely check immigration status in traffic stops.

Braziel made his call for immigration reform as part of the Law Enforcement Engagement Initiative, an organization founded by former Sacramento Police Chief Arturo Venegas Jr. to give police a voice in the immigration debate.

Braziel said Congress must take a two-pronged approach - tighter borders and a way to allow productive undocumented immigrants to stay here legally. Now, many are afraid to assist in criminal investigations, putting the general public at risk, Braziel said.

"We need to remember that there are at least 12 million people out there who are unauthorized to be in this country, and they're our neighbors. ... We need to start putting faces and names to these 12 million people because this is not an issue where you can deport people away. It doesn't solve the issue."

[Curly Bill]

Law-abiding citizens...?

Now, that's not exactly true is it now? :rolleyes:

[Turd_Ferguson]

Law-abiding citizens...?

Now, that's not exactly true is it now? :rolleyes:Shhhh....it makes it sound better.

[Soonerus]

"Go Joe Go" means only one thing...the OU/Mizzou game that Joe Washington took over at the end...miraculous..That was the chant by the OU broadcast by John Brooks...a classic...

[SCOUT]

Law-abiding citizens...?

Now, that's not exactly true is it now? :rolleyes:

Don't roll your eyes about that. They abide by some of our laws.

[tommieharris91]

sounds like DWB to me

Last I checked, stopping people without suspicion (or "probable cause") was kinda written into the Bill of Rights.

Why are the Republicans defending big government when it comes to this issue?

[MrJimBeam]

"Go Joe Go" means only one thing...the OU/Mizzou game that Joe Washington took over at the end...miraculous..That was the chant by the OU broadcast by John Brooks...a classic...

Wasn't it Mike Trepps who made that call?

[SanJoaquinSooner]

[Holier than Thou]Law-abiding citizens...?

Now, that's not exactly true is it now? :rolleyes:[/Holier than Thou]

Curly, now I'm confident you've never broken a law, but I must sadly remind you that some of your best buddies on this board are criminals who have downloaded copyrighted music illegally, drank before the legal age, brewed in dry counties, and some have even smoked pot.

Somehow folks seem to get all self-righteous about obeying laws rather selectively.

[OUMallen]

Yermom is right.

1. No more DWB arrests.
2. Don't to the Sac thing though- go ahead and check immigration status during a legit traffic stop.
3. We need wholesale changes. The current system is. not. working. Let's turn a negative into a positive. Add these people to the labor force and the tax base. There's a reason why China is going to outstrip us soon- they have more people. We've made it clear that deportation won't work. If we allow more immigration through legal channels, maybe the undocumented people will slow down a little.

But we need to deal with the reality of the situation: these people won't stop coming. Mexico isn't helping us. The mega drug wars across the border aren't helping.

[OUMallen]

Also, it's amazing sometimes how willing people are to give up the liberty of others.

[OUMallen]

Sacramento police chief says legalize undocumented immigrants
[email protected]
Published Thursday, Oct. 22, 2009

http://media.sacbee.com/smedia/2009/10/22/16/RP_RICK_BRAZIEL_PORT.embedded.prod_affiliate.4.JPG


"They're either victims or witnesses in crimes or accidents, but they don't come forward - you have a population of criminals who understand that and actually prey on folks knowing they're not going to call us."


This is sad and all, but the life of an illegal alien shouldn't necessarily be peaches and cream either.

[C&CDean]

Curly, now I'm confident you've never broken a law, but I must sadly remind you that some of your best buddies on this board are criminals who have downloaded copyrighted music illegally, drank before the legal age, brewed in dry counties, and some have even smoked pot.

Somehow folks seem to get all self-righteous about obeying laws rather selectively.

Timeout. The difference between me smoking some ganja in San Diego, and your buddy Humberto from Hermosillo smoking some ganja in San Diego is that I am in San Diego legally, and Humberto is not.

[StoopTroup]

Timeout. The difference between me smoking some ganja in San Diego, and your buddy Humberto from Hermosillo smoking some ganja in San Diego is that I am in San Diego legally, and Humberto is not.

And Humberto ain't dead sexy either. :dean:

[C&CDean]

Well there is that.

[yermom]

Timeout. The difference between me smoking some ganja in San Diego, and your buddy Humberto from Hermosillo smoking some ganja in San Diego is that I am in San Diego legally, and Humberto is not.

which is worse, Dean smokin ganja in San Diego or Humberto picking lettuce, or whatever?

he's talking about their only crime being here illegally, not that they are otherwise breaking the law

[StoopTroup]

Once you've committed your first crime...are you really off to a good start?

[C&CDean]

which is worse, Dean smokin ganja in San Diego or Humberto picking lettuce, or whatever?

he's talking about their only crime being here illegally, not that they are otherwise breaking the law

Dude, when Dean is smoking ganja, and then picking lettuce, he's paying taxes on his wages. Your boy Humberto ain't. Yet he still expects all the benefits that an American citizen gets, and there's dumbasses out there who believe he should get them.

I was born in Colorado, and raised in Tucson. I've lived my entire life around Mexicans. Lots and lots of Mexicans. For the most part, I love em'. Many of them worked their asses off to become legal citizens, and I have the utmost respect for them and their work ethic. They're Americans, just like you and me.

I really don't have that big of a problem with the ones who dash across, work the fields for a couple months and take a chunk of $$ home to Mexico either.

The ones who bug the **** outta me are the ones who have come over here to do nothing but milk our system - and I have an even bigger problem with the *******s who support them and want to grant them amnesty. **** you. Dot the i's, cross the t's and become a legal citizen. Otherwise let Sheriff Joe boot your lazy *** back where it belongs.

[StoopTroup]

Cubans>Mexicans

[CrimsonandCreamForever]

As usual, Dean understands the problem here. It basically boils down to the fact that we pay taxes and they don't. The government (and the government programs) is by the people, of the people, for the people... WHO PAY TAXES TO SUPPORT IT.

I don't get why some of you people don't grasp this concept.


If you wanna live here, sign up and do it legally, just like the rest of us.

[StoopTroup]

It basically boils down to the fact that we pay taxes and they don't.

I want to be a Mexican.

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/3165316/2/istockphoto_3165316-mexican.jpg

[OUMallen]

As usual, Dean understands the problem here. It basically boils down to the fact that we pay taxes and they don't. The government (and the government programs) is by the people, of the people, for the people... WHO PAY TAXES TO SUPPORT IT.

I don't get why some of you people don't grasp this concept.


If you wanna live here, sign up and do it legally, just like the rest of us.

I'm marking this down: I agree with Dean and C&CF.

Although I will say we should address the problems causing this. Should we allow more people to come over legally? I don't know the answer to that, but if they could get here legally in a feasible manner, maybe they'd respect the system a little more.

[Penguin]

Pay taxes?

Even if they were here legally, they wouldn't be paying income taxes. Even now 47% of households don't pay taxes, including 70% of people making less than $50k live tax-free.

[CrimsonandCreamForever]

I want to be a Mexican.

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/3165316/2/istockphoto_3165316-mexican.jpg

You're not mexican? :confused:




;)

[StoopTroup]

I tried but they pulled my green card.

[CrimsonandCreamForever]

Pay taxes?

Even if they were here legally, they wouldn't be paying income taxes. Even now 47% of households don't pay taxes, including 70% of people making less than $50k live tax-free.

You might be right, but using a flaw in the system to defend another flaw in the system is flawed logic.

With all the tax credits and such available, there are plenty of legal citizens taking advantage of the system, and the resources of the IRS don't even begin to come CLOSE to adequate to tracking those people down.

That is another issue that needs to be addressed. However, it has nothing to do with people not paying any taxes in AT ALL. Apples and oranges.

[StoopTroup]

You might be right, but using a flaw in the system to defend another flaw in the system is flawed logic.

With all the tax credits and such available, there are plenty of legal citizens taking advantage of the system, and the resources of the IRS don't even begin to come CLOSE to adequate to tracking those people down.

That is another issue that needs to be addressed. However, it has nothing to do with people not paying any taxes in AT ALL. Apples and oranges.

rAaWvVFERVA

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Originally Posted by SanJoaquinSooner

Somehow folks seem to get all self-righteous about obeying laws rather selectively.


Timeout. The difference between me smoking some ganja in San Diego, and your buddy Humberto from Hermosillo smoking some ganja in San Diego is that I am in San Diego legally, and Humberto is not.

Q.E.D.

[OUHOMER]

.
3. We need wholesale changes. The current system is. not. working. Let's turn a negative into a positive. Add these people to the labor force and the tax base. There's a reason why China is going to outstrip us soon- they have more people. We've made it clear that deportation won't work. If we allow more immigration through legal channels, maybe the undocumented people will slow down a little.


You know all the low wage jobs here in the USA, well those $10 an hr jobs just went down to $8. if this was to happen.

[ELP Sooner]

.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

I was born in Colorado, and raised in Tucson. I've lived my entire life around Mexicans. Lots and lots of Mexicans.
.
.
.

Dot the i's, cross the t's and become a legal citizen.

Here's what I don't get: How can you live your entire life around lots and a lots of Mexicans and then imply becoming a legal citizen is anything as simple as dotting i's and crossing t's?

Under a family-based petition where an Mexican adult has a U.S. citizen parent, there is a 17 year time lag. That is, if the petition was filed anytime after 1992, the Mexican is still waiting in line. Many of the illegals have had petitions on file for years, trying to become a legal resident.

If the petitioner is a U.S. citizen sibling, the wait is similar - anyone who filed after 1995 is still waiting.

http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/bulletin/bulletin_4576.html

Employment based petitions are expedited if you are Yao Ming and the Houston Rockets want to hire you. But if Small-business owner Fred wants to hire you , the red tape makes it economically infeasible - which is where the real focus should be in immigration reform: making the free market of labor red-tape free.

[olevetonahill]

http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/twi/lowres/twin393l.jpg

[SanJoaquinSooner]

http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/twi/lowres/twin393l.jpg

there's the olevet logic, give 'em amnesty and they'll all leave to avoid paying taxes!!! count me in, olevet!

[Petro-Sooner]

Just build the ****ing wall already.

[olevetonahill]

Just build the ****ing wall already.

Yea that will werk LOL

http://http://dailywhig.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/mexican-border-illegal.jpg

[olevetonahill]

http://dailywhig.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/mexican-border-illegal.jpg

[olevetonahill]

there's the olevet logic, give 'em amnesty and they'll all leave to avoid paying taxes!!! count me in, olevet!

jaun , you are about as Biased as anyone Ive met here .
You cant see Humor for what it is .
Did you ever get yer green card ?

[SanJoaquinSooner]

jaun , you are about as Biased as anyone Ive met here .
You cant see Humor for what it is .
Did you ever get yer green card ?

I think I see the humor. It's making fun of a set of individuals. and those individuals are not the illegals, but those who are clueless about what motivates illegals to be in the U.S.

Green card? Turns out that those born in Guam, Puerto Rico, and Oklahoma don't need green cards. Who knew?


....and thanks for the SOONER RED!!!!!!!

[olevetonahill]

I think I see the humor. It's making fun of a set of individuals. and those individuals are not the illegals, but those who are clueless about what motivates illegals to be in the U.S.

Green card? Turns out that those born in Guam, Puerto Rico, and Oklahoma don't need green cards. Who knew?


....and thanks for the SOONER RED!!!!!!!

Oh Go Pizz up a rope Ya dope :rolleyes:

Oh and I aint the one that gave ya the red Ya dumas:D

[SCOUT]

Employment based petitions are expedited if you are Yao Ming and the Houston Rockets want to hire you. But if Small-business owner Fred wants to hire you , the red tape makes it economically infeasible - which is where the real focus should be in immigration reform: making the free market of labor red-tape free.

Employment based petitions are based on skills that an individuals has. To be more specific, those petitions are judged based on the merits of an individual and whether or not that skill set already exists in the United States.

So yes, work visas are expedited for 7 foot 6 basketball players. They do this because there is not a dearth of those folks wandering around the streets of the US.

Joe lettuce packer has a more general skill set. Therefore, his application process probably doesn't justify the same specialty treatment as a person whose attributes can be applied to about .00001% of the world's population.

[olevetonahill]

They are all such Fine upstanding Law abiding citizens :rolleyes:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_K9VU3XfY27k/SAeimaXlfUI/AAAAAAAAAYU/fnmLtE84mIg/s320/immigrants.jpg2.jpg3.jpg4.jpg5.jpg6.jpg7.jpg


jaun years ago they Came here Picked the crops and went Home
Now they stay and Leach :rolleyes:

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Employment based petitions are based on skills that an individuals has. To be more specific, those petitions are judged based on the merits of an individual and whether or not that skill set already exists in the United States.

So yes, work visas are expedited for 7 foot 6 basketball players. They do this because there is not a dearth of those folks wandering around the streets of the US.

Joe lettuce packer has a more general skill set. Therefore, his application process probably doesn't justify the same specialty treatment as a person whose attributes can be applied to about .00001% of the world's population.

So you mean, if the Rockets had drafted a 6' 4" shooting guard from Argentina, then Uncle Sam might have denied the visa because there is no shortage of shooting guards in the U.S.?

If the Rockets put a help wanted ad in the paper: "Help Wanted. Shooting Guard. $4 million/year." ...do you think any U.S. citizens would apply for the job?

[SCOUT]

So you mean, if the Rockets had drafted a 6' 4" shooting guard from Argentina, then Uncle Sam might have denied the visa because there is no shortage of shooting guards in the U.S.?

If the Rockets put a help wanted ad in the paper: "Help Wanted. Shooting Guard. $4 million/year." ...do you think any U.S. citizens would apply for the job?

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying assuming that the skill of said Argentinian isn't greater than that of the shooting guards in the US.

Immigration policy is complicated in its method, but not in its principle. If there is a demand for a skill set that can't be met by US citizens then immigrants can move through the process more easily.

If the Rockets were to place that ad, I am confident that there would be many applicants, but that doesn't mean those that applied would be more equipped to fulfill the job.

Your question was about Yao Ming, who possesses attributes that can't readily be filled by the current applicant pool within the US.

[olevetonahill]

So you mean, if the Rockets had drafted a 6' 4" shooting guard from Argentina, then Uncle Sam might have denied the visa because there is no shortage of shooting guards in the U.S.?

If the Rockets put a help wanted ad in the paper: "Help Wanted. Shooting Guard. $4 million/year." ...do you think any U.S. citizens would apply for the job?

No what hes sayin Is if any of the beaners were worth a shat They could Get In Easy
Pay tention

[Flagstaffsooner]

Wake up juan, siesta over.
http://www.altham.com/assets/images/Mexican_Sleeping.jpg

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying assuming that the skill of said Argentinian isn't greater than that of the shooting guards in the US.

Immigration policy is complicated in its method, but not in its principle. If there is a demand for a skill set that can't be met by US citizens then immigrants can move through the process more easily.

If the Rockets were to place that ad, I am confident that there would be many applicants, but that doesn't mean those that applied would be more equipped to fulfill the job.

Your question was about Yao Ming, who possesses attributes that can't readily be filled by the current applicant pool within the US.

Yao Ming's height had no bearing on Uncle Sam's decision to expedite the visa process. Rocket forward Luis Scola from Argentina is only 6'7" and he got the visa as easily as Ming. And there is no shortage of 6'7" forwards in the U.S. When the final cuts are made, there'll be lots more unemployed 6'7" forwards.

[Flagstaffsooner]

When the final cuts are made, there'll be lots more unemployed 6'7" forwards.
Like 5'2" lettuce pickers?

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Like 5'2" lettuce pickers?

In season, there's always work for a good lettuce picker.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

jaun years ago they Came here Picked the crops and went Home
Now they stay and Leach :rolleyes:


But Olevet, years ago, they didn't need to bribe the border guard to get back across. When borders got tight, the back-and-forth migration became too expensive. Now you got to pay the smugglers 2 or 3 thousand. The smugglers load up the truck with dozens to be smuggled, and pay a percentage to the border guard.

It'd be so much more ethical to pay Uncle Sam a fee and give migrants worker visas so they can go back and forth without paying coyotes and corrupt border guards.


My county is about 35% Latino. I don't know how many are not legally present - but a sizable number. They'd LOVE to go home during the winter months when it's off-season for agriculture, tourism, and construction. But it's much more difficult to come back now. In the 80s and early 90s, most anyone could get across easily - no cash needed.

[Wishboned]

Curly, now I'm confident you've never broken a law, but I must sadly remind you that some of your best buddies on this board are criminals who have downloaded copyrighted music illegally, drank before the legal age, brewed in dry counties, and some have even smoked pot.

Somehow folks seem to get all self-righteous about obeying laws rather selectively.

I don't mean to speak for Curly, but I'm taking his comment to mean that not only are they not law abiding since they're here in this country illegally, but they're not citizens either.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

I don't mean to speak for Curly, but I'm taking his comment to mean that not only are they not law abiding since they're here in this country illegally, but they're not citizens either.

Yeah, I dont know - maybe that's what he meant.

I don't think the writer of the article meant that. Citizen is a word that has more than one meaning. For example, some colleges claim their liberal arts programs produce citizen leaders. That doesn't mean international students will become U.S. citizens, but rather, responsible members of their community. And I believe that is how the writer was using the word citizen - being a responsible and productive member of a community, rather than holding citizenship of a particular country. Thus, a resident alien might be "a good citizen" when she volunteers to help fix up a public eye sore.

[SCOUT]

Yao Ming's height had no bearing on Uncle Sam's decision to expedite the visa process. Rocket forward Luis Scola from Argentina is only 6'7" and he got the visa as easily as Ming. And there is no shortage of 6'7" forwards in the U.S. When the final cuts are made, there'll be lots more unemployed 6'7" forwards.

I think you are still missing my point. I specifically said that there would be applicants that fit the job description (i.e. tall) but that doesn't mean that they are the best candidates based on their skills.

The NBA players who had expedited visas were tall but they also posses tremendous skills that separate them from the other candidates and that is the justification for an expedited visa process.

It you substitute software development, medical research etc, for basketball skills you will have the same result.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

I think you are still missing my point. I specifically said that there would be applicants that fit the job description (i.e. tall) but that doesn't mean that they are the best candidates based on their skills.


You mean like Darko Milicic. When are they taking away his visa?

[Turd_Ferguson]

You mean like Darko Milicic. When are they taking away his visa?He's gonna voluntarily hand it back...


Miličić has stated that after his NBA career ends he will fulfill his obligation to military service in his native Serbia

[SanJoaquinSooner]

He's gonna voluntarily hand it back...Miličić has stated that after his NBA career ends he will fulfill his obligation to military service in his native Serbia
For Serbia's sake, I hope he can shoot a rifle better than he can shoot a basketball.