Some Defensive Stats for ya

[Collier11]

Weve played 2 ranked teams and another that has a legit offense and this is where we stand in our conf, I think alot of these stats are telling a different story than some of you seem to think

#2 in scoring Def
#3 in rush Def
#1 in Total D
# 4 in pass D
#5 in Pass D efficiency
#1 in opponents 1st downs
#1 in sacks
#2 in Ints

A big one here
#9 in 3rd down conversion % by opponents...at 37.1%. I dont need to tell anyone that most every other team in this conf has played a bunch of crap teams while we have not

#2 in opp 4th down conversions
#1 in red zone defense


#8 in Time of possession and tied for 9th in penalties...These two have alot more to do with us being 2-2 than our D does for those of you who love stats and facts and all that fun stuff.

Now im not saying our D cant get better in certain areas but if teams like ut and kansas and tech, etc... dominate us in TOP while we have penalty after penalty our D doesnt stand a chance, bottom line is our offense is absolutely killing our D right now and they are still playing pretty damn well

[rawlingsHOH]

The defense has been very strong!

[sooneron]

I'm not one of the guys that is totally bagging on the D, but as with the bcs, we should throw out the stats of the isu game. That would give you a better indicator as to where this D really is at the moment.

[boomermagic]

Weve played 2 ranked teams and another that has a legit offense and this is where we stand in our conf, I think alot of these stats are telling a different story than some of you seem to think

#2 in scoring Def
#3 in rush Def
#1 in Total D
# 4 in pass D
#5 in Pass D efficiency
#1 in opponents 1st downs
#1 in sacks
#2 in Ints

A big one here
#9 in 3rd down conversion % by opponents...at 37.1%. I dont need to tell anyone that most every other team in this conf has played a bunch of crap teams while we have not

#2 in opp 4th down conversions
#1 in red zone defense


#8 in Time of possession and tied for 9th in penalties...These two have alot more to do with us being 2-2 than our D does for those of you who love stats and facts and all that fun stuff.

Now im not saying our D cant get better in certain areas but if teams like ut and kansas and tech, etc... dominate us in TOP while we have penalty after penalty our D doesnt stand a chance, bottom line is our offense is absolutely killing our D right now and they are still playing pretty damn well

The third down defensive stat alone is cause for major concern.. It tells me that the coaches are guessing wrong most of the time... I agree our offense is our defenses worst enemy right now.. We desperately need to get some people healed up and on the field..

[sooneron]

scoring - 11.66 - Ok, we're 8th in the country
rushing - 2.52/att - 8th again ( we have played only one team that can really run tho)
passing - 228/game - 77th - not so good
ints - 5 seems to be the average in the fbs, and we have 6.

[Collier11]

I'm not one of the guys that is totally bagging on the D, but as with the bcs, we should throw out the stats of the isu game. That would give you a better indicator as to where this D really is at the moment.

In all fairness I think playing BYU(34.6ppg), Tulsa(32.8), and Miami(25) covers for ISU, hell just look at Texas's schedule, they have played 4 ISUs basically.

[Collier11]

scoring - 11.66 - Ok, we're 8th in the country
rushing - 2.52/att - 8th again ( we have played only one team that can really run tho)
passing - 228/game - 77th - not so good
ints - 5 seems to be the average in the fbs, and we have 6.

We are only giving up 7ppg, not 11.66

[sooneron]

We are only giving up 7ppg, not 11.66

I threw out the isu numbers. 11.66 is still very good. I don't think an M Stoops offense averaged that. I wanted to see what the numbers would show if I did what I suggested in the first post. I do see your point about other teams, I just think that if you play a team that is no where near your division, you lose the good stats. Of course, I have also said that a lay up team is a lay up team, whether it's N Texas or isu.

[meoveryouxinfinity]

are these conference stats or big XII stats?

Not impressed if they're just big XII. Woo, we're better than osu!

[sooneron]

They are national that I provided.

[sooner ngintunr]

Still can't make stops when it counts.

[rawlingsHOH]

In all fairness I think playing BYU(34.6ppg), Tulsa(32.8), and Miami(25) covers for ISU, hell just look at Texas's schedule, they have played 4 ISUs basically.
Probably more than covers.

[meoveryouxinfinity]

They are national that I provided.

Not all that great.

[NormanPride]

Not all that great.

:rolleyes: Giving up 21 points on the road isn't excellent, but it should be enough to win. Giving up 14 points at a neutral site should DEFINITELY be enough to win. And two freaking shutouts.

Some people are NEVER happy. This D has given up three TD drives all damn season.

[Collier11]

21 points on the road to a ranked team is more than enough

[unbiasedtruth]

Still can't make stops when it counts.

still cant score when we have tha ball.....

thats what most of these people bagging on the defense, cant come up with a critical stop on 3rd down late in the game, cant get the ball back.... blah blah blah.....

what it comes down to is this: BYU scored on only 2 of its offensive possessions, the U on 3, Other than that all 4 teams didnt score on any of its other offensive possessions.

and the unbiasedtruth..... neither did the Sooners..... not bagging on the offense, but you do have to score to win games and 13 & 20 points wont win you too many ballgames, no matter how good you defense is....

[o0Dan0o]

The third down defensive stat alone is cause for major concern.. It tells me that the coaches are guessing wrong most of the time... I agree our offense is our defenses worst enemy right now.. We desperately need to get some people healed up and on the field..

I'm really not sure what you're talking about, what about letting opponents convert 3rd down one third of the time is that bad? Especially with how well our defense plays on first downs.
Dan

[o0Dan0o]

what it comes down to is this: BYU scored on only 2 of its offensive possessions, the U on 3, Other than that all 4 teams didnt score on any of its other offensive possessions.

I count one of Miami's scores as basically a defense score for them. Sure their offense crossed the goal line, but only after their defense gave it to them on the 5. Our defense has played very well against some very quality opponents, they need to improve, as all teams do over the season, but they have started off very well.

I'd say our defense is at 85-90%, while our offense is at ~40% and that's probably generous.

There was one thing that really bothered me in the Miami game, our D just seemed to give that extra yard when making tackles, the yards after contact for Miami must have been pretty good.
Dan

[beer4me]

From another post

"The stats don't mean a dang thing at that point. The only stat that counts is "did the defense allow one less point than the offenses generated".

[westbrooke]

are these conference stats or big XII stats?

Not impressed if they're just big XII. Woo, we're better than osu!

We have people throwing out both, so it's confusing. Collier gave us conference stats.

I sense that I have drifted into the defense bashing side of this argument over time (and that's not my intent), mainly because I had one point to make and the counterarguments I saw didn't really counter anything so I kept trying to make the point. This will be my last attempt before I let it go.

First, though: I fully believe the offense is the greater culprit in our struggles by far. Our defense has played well enough to win every game. We need better offensive line play to open up our running game, allow for deeper routes to develop, even out time of possession, score more points, and give our defense more rest. It's possible that improved OL play might be our magic bullet.

Now: Our defense has to get off the field on 3rd down. Collier's stats show us at 9th with our current performance. That's in the Big 12. The same performance puts us at 54th nationally. Doesn't look so hot anymore does it? In our two toughest games, we've allowed 16 of 30 3rd downs to be converted. We're giving up over 50% of those chances to stop a drive. Surely, our inability to sustain an offensive drive contributes to our TOP deficit, but so does our inability to end our opponents' possessions. Score may be the ultimate measure of a game's winner, but that's all predicated on a lot of smaller details like this, and I think it's foolish to pretend like this isn't a problem that needs fixing.

To sum up: Offense needs major improvement. This defense with last year's offense is a world beater. Injuries and youth have made this year's offense unreliable, and improvement there means more for our success this season than working out the kinks in the D. But, that doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye toward problems on the defensive side of the ball. This (54th) is one of them.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Notice the 3rd down conversion stat...thats nice, but look at the 3rd down conversion percentage in the losses...

again my thing is, and the stats show, 3rd down conversion and time of possession in the 4th...when its on the line, they havent made plays..Gerald McCoy and others have said as much

let me state this in another way..

your a 90 percent free throw shooter through 3 quarters...but your down by 2 with seconds left and you miss both free throws...and you do this more than once...what difference is those stats in the first 3 quarters if you aren't getting it done in the 4th?

[stoops the eternal pimp]

and its nice to limit the O of another team in points...but if you cant get their offense off the field in crunch time, your basically stealing opportunites from your offense to make a play...

[Collier11]

and its nice to limit the O of another team in points...but if you cant get their offense off the field in crunch time, your basically stealing opportunites from your offense to make a play...

In the same sense cant you say that our offense is wasting oppurtunities early to jump on teams that the D is providing them with?

[Sasakwa]

Wait, 9th in 3rd down conversions but 1st in first downs allowed? Seems odd.

[Collier11]

it means we havent given up that many but when the other team has had a chance to convert, we havent done all that well

[boomermagic]

I'm really not sure what you're talking about, what about letting opponents convert 3rd down one third of the time is that bad? Especially with how well our defense plays on first downs.
Dan

I understand we are # 9 out of 12 in 3rd down conversions defensively ... Is that NOT correct ?

[Collier11]

yes

[starclassic tama]

our defense is really good, but at the same time if you want to be considered a championship caliber defense, you don't give up 3 touchdown passes and lose a game like that.

[VA Sooner]

I like those stats. I wish it would play out better on the field as far as end of the game score but I can live with that for now. See how the season unfolds... players will get better.

[westbrooke]

I was reading this article (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/kerry_byrne/10/08/broncos.defense/index.html?eref=sihp) this morning and got curious about how this would apply to the college game. So, rather than working, I spent way too much time running the numbers on college teams. I thought you all might find this interesting. Here's what I found.

Defensive Hog Index: OU ranks 11th.
Negative Pass Plays: OU ranks 3rd.
3rd Conversions: OU ranks 54th. (Already discussed in this thread)
Defensive Passer Rating: OU ranks 31st.
Bendability: OU ranks 3rd.

Obviously, this is early in the year and the numbers are sure to change as conference play starts. But I found this kind of fascinating, particularly since I was sure a bendability rating wouldn't look good for us. We obviously want to see all of these numbers, particularly 3rd down conversions and defensive passer rating, come down, but I like how well the defensive hog index stacks up. That's the stat the writer points to as the most indicative of success.

Here are the ten in front of us in that ranking:
1 Connecticut
2 TCU
3 North Carolina St.
4 Southern California
5 Alabama
6 Kansas
7 Texas
8 Air Force
9 Penn St.
10 South Fla.

Some teams in there you wouldn't expect, but you can probably chalk that up to non-conference schedules.

Caveat: The writer says the Hog index is indicative of post season success and has predicted the last two Super Bowl winners. That's fine and dandy for the Steelers, but as I recall, the Giants weren't world beaters in the regular season and only turned it on late. Since college doesn't have a playoff to level the playing field at the end of the year, it might have been more applicable to college if the Patriots had the best index in 2007. Just my speculation.

So, what do you think? I think stats are fun, but I can see reasons to both embrace and reject some of these. And I can elaborate on any of these stats and show deeper rankings if anyone's interested. I'd attach a spreadsheet if I could figure out how.

[prrriiide]

Wait, 9th in 3rd down conversions but 1st in first downs allowed? Seems odd.

That's because teams are getting 1st down off of 1st and 2nd, too.

BYU had 17 first downs total. 8 of those came off of a 3rd down conversion and one off of a 4th down conversion. So 8 of their 1st downs came after either 1st or 2nd down.

ISU: pffft.

Tulsa: 16 first downs, 6 off of 3rd down. That leaves 10 that came off of 1st or 2nd.

Miami: 21 1st downs, only 8 came off of 3rd down plays. We gave up 13 first downs off of either 1st or 2nd down.

This is the stat that really bothers me. We are getting teams to 3rd down LESS than half the time, and when we DO get them to 3rd down, we are holding them less than half the time.

Now, teams are obviously not scoring at will. The bend-don't-break philosophy is working well in keeping teams out of the end zone on most drives:

BYU had 11 drives, 8 resulted in either a punt (5) or a turnover (3).

Tulsa had 13 drives, 12 resulted in either a punt (7), a turnover (3), or a 4th down stop (2). The last drive was the missed FG.

Miami had 10 drives, 7 ended in either a punt (5), or a turnover (2).

The problem is, as STEP pointed out, is that the big breakdowns are coming at the worst times. Even the best prizefighter will hit the canvas if he lets up and his opponent hits him just right at just the right time. Ask Buster Douglas.

Another aspect of this is that every first down our D allows is 10 yards further our gutted offense has to move the ball to get points. In its current state, our offense needs as short of a field as they can get. In the Miami game, OU started only 4 out of 10 offensive drives outside of our own red zone. That's an awful lot to ask of an offense that is held together with duck tape and bailing wire.

This has been an ongoing problem for at least the last 4 years.

[I Am Right]

Weve played 2 ranked teams and another that has a legit offense and this is where we stand in our conf, I think alot of these stats are telling a different story than some of you seem to think

#2 in scoring Def
#3 in rush Def
#1 in Total D
# 4 in pass D
#5 in Pass D efficiency
#1 in opponents 1st downs
#1 in sacks
#2 in Ints

A big one here
#9 in 3rd down conversion % by opponents...at 37.1%. I dont need to tell anyone that most every other team in this conf has played a bunch of crap teams while we have not

#2 in opp 4th down conversions
#1 in red zone defense


#8 in Time of possession and tied for 9th in penalties...These two have alot more to do with us being 2-2 than our D does for those of you who love stats and facts and all that fun stuff.

Now im not saying our D cant get better in certain areas but if teams like ut and kansas and tech, etc... dominate us in TOP while we have penalty after penalty our D doesnt stand a chance, bottom line is our offense is absolutely killing our D right now and they are still playing pretty damn well

Good analysis

[adoniijahsooner]

This defense will improve as the season moves along