First Harris Poll

[JLEW1818]

= 1/3 of the BCS

http://espn.go.com/college-football/rankings/_/poll/5

[josh09]

We should be #7. But I dont care, as long as we beat Miami and Texas, we should be fine.

[JLEW1818]

yup, 3 spots each win in my opinion... and more later to come

(Miami/texas)

[josh09]

Exactly. Basically, we just have to win. Who knew?!?! :D

[cheezyq]

We should be #7. But I dont care, as long as we beat Miami and Texas, we should be fine.

I agree and disagree. If we win, we should be fine. But I do care, as having OSU and USC pass us is complete BS. OSU passes us because someone at ESPN (Adam Rittenberg) whines like a little baby about his poor Luckeyes. ESPN launched a media blitz last year whining about 45-35, including giving Mack a platform to b*tch and moan during our game against the Cowpokes, and that almost kept us out of the B12CCG. Never mind the facts that there was a 3-way tie and SOS and all that stuff. Never mind that so far the Luckeyes have BARELY beaten Navy at home (one play away from defeat), and lost at home to USC.

Last year ESPN's premier commentators and columnists called Stoops unethical for running up the score and praised Mack for "having a heart" against his opponents. This argument was continually made despite the fact that OU was outscored in the 4th quarter all year long, while Mack was piling it on in the 4th quarter against opponents like Texas A&M and UTEP. Then Rece Davis comes out and says on Saturday that Mack (with the score at 64-7) had "called off the dogs". ESPN has set a precedent that is affecting OU's perception to pollsters and it's getting more and more ridiculous.

The fact that USC passes us ticks me off because they beat Washington State...one of the worst teams this decade. If they're punishing us because of our loss to BYU, who lost badly to FSU (a top 20 team), then where is the similar standard for USC losing to UW, which lost badly to Stanford (a NOT top 20 team)? USC is receiving the Notre Dame treatment, where even their sh*t smells like roses.

Do I think there is a conspiracy? Probably not. But it's very clear that certain teams get favorable treatment over others by ESPN, and that ESPN has a large effect on voter perception. And OU is squarely and firmly in the "others" category, despite constantly proving decade after decade, year after year, that it is one of the best programs in the country. So, yeah, it p*sses me off.

[sooneron]

I agree and disagree. If we win, we should be fine. But I do care, as having OSU and USC pass us is complete BS. OSU passes us because someone at ESPN (Adam Rittenberg) whines like a little baby about his poor Luckeyes. ESPN launched a media blitz last year whining about 45-35, including giving Mack a platform to b*tch and moan during our game against the Cowpokes, and that almost kept us out of the B12CCG. Never mind the facts that there was a 3-way tie and SOS and all that stuff. Never mind that so far the Luckeyes have BARELY beaten Navy at home (one play away from defeat), and lost at home to USC.

Last year ESPN's premier commentators and columnists called Stoops unethical for running up the score and praised Mack for "having a heart" against his opponents. This argument was continually made despite the fact that OU was outscored in the 4th quarter all year long, while Mack was piling it on in the 4th quarter against opponents like Texas A&M and UTEP. Then Rece Davis comes out and says on Saturday that Mack (with the score at 64-7) had "called off the dogs". ESPN has set a precedent that is affecting OU's perception to pollsters and it's getting more and more ridiculous.

The fact that USC passes us ticks me off because they beat Washington State...one of the worst teams this decade. If they're punishing us because of our loss to BYU, who lost badly to FSU (a top 20 team), then where is the similar standard for USC losing to UW, which lost badly to Stanford (a NOT top 20 team)? USC is receiving the Notre Dame treatment, where even their sh*t smells like roses.

Do I think there is a conspiracy? Probably not. But it's very clear that certain teams get favorable treatment over others by ESPN, and that ESPN has a large effect on voter perception. And OU is squarely and firmly in the "others" category, despite constantly proving decade after decade, year after year, that it is one of the best programs in the country. So, yeah, it p*sses me off.
Lighten up Francis. Somehow, deservedly or not, OUr team has played in the NC game 4 times this decade. You can say that's despite espn if you want, but all that they want is controversy. That's what gets people to watch their crap. If the shoe had been on the other foot last year, it would have been spun our direction.
usc and tosu played last Saturday, we didn't. If we beat miami on the road (in a grat way), at night, we'll probably pass them.

[BoulderSooner79]

^This. The BCS and thus the polls have been kinder to OU than any other team this decade at the end of the season (when it counts). I can't even complain about this current early poll putting us in the top 10 since we have very little on the resume so far.

[cheezyq]

Lighten up Francis. Somehow, deservedly or not, OUr team has played in the NC game 4 times this decade. You can say that's despite espn if you want, but all that they want is controversy. That's what gets people to watch their crap. If the shoe had been on the other foot last year, it would have been spun our direction.
usc and tosu played last Saturday, we didn't. If we beat miami on the road (in a grat way), at night, we'll probably pass them.

I highly doubt that. Mainly because Stoops refuses to play that game (which I love about him). Plus, as I said before, I agree that we'll probably be fine if we win out. MAYBE we pass USC and OSU...but I doubt that, unless they lose. We MIGHT pass them after winning in Dallas. Who knows? I think we'll be fine...but that's not the point.

I'm not one to believe in conspiracies and such. I don't think there is a conspiracy. BUT, if you don't watch ESPN and think "hmmm....some teams get treated better than others", then you haven't been paying attention. USC, Notre Dame, SEC teams, and UT all get favorable media treatment. That's just a fact. It could stem from the fact that those schools have more fans in the media or larger markets, or whatever. But the reality is that it exists...and it shouldn't. ESPN is SUPPOSED to be a sports news outlet. Instead, they are a platform. The Yankees and Red Sox, the New York NFL teams and the Patriots, SEC/USC/Notre Dame/Ohio State/Longhorns in CFB, the Big East and ACC in CBB...ESPN is a platform for touting those teams and conferences.

The problem is that in the college game, ESPN has a HUGE influence on the perceptions of conferences and teams. In college basketball, it has an effect on the seeding in the tournament, but the 64-team playoff at least allows for non-favored teams to make a statement. That is not the case in college football, where perception is everything. The genius of the original BCS formula was that while a certain human element was taken into account, the computers had a larger influence in deciding what was important as far as team strength. After the media didn't like the results (not enough SEC and USC matchups), they modified the formula to account for the human element more, which is largely subjective.

Now, ESPN can bring in Mack Brown to tell everyone how unfair it is that they're being left out, and appeal to the heart strings of gay people everywhere and it works. Fortunately last year the computers coldly judged the seasons of both teams on their merits, and the correct team made it to the CCG...by the slimmest of margins. But the effect was still felt, as even though OU beat OSU to end the season, and UT beat lowly Texas A&M, more human voters turned toward UT because of the whining on that ESPN platform (which just happened to be the OU game, of all things).

This has HUGE implications. ESPN perception affects how recruits view certain schools, and as we've seen before, how the voters view a team/conference. There is soon coming a time where that human element is going to bite us in the backside, and the college game will simply become a popularity contest (if it isn't already). Yeah, OU has overcome the perceptions so far, and that's one reason I love Stoops. He refuses to play the game, and yet still is able to spit in the face of the system by making it to the MNC game. But it won't happen forever. And THAT's what p*sses me off.

We may be able to get back by winning out. I understand that, and am cool with it. I'm not cool with the off-field obstacles that we have to overcome to get there, though.

[TexasLidig8r]

I highly doubt that. Mainly because Stoops refuses to play that game (which I love about him). Plus, as I said before, I agree that we'll probably be fine if we win out. MAYBE we pass USC and OSU...but I doubt that, unless they lose. We MIGHT pass them after winning in Dallas. Who knows? I think we'll be fine...but that's not the point.

I'm not one to believe in conspiracies and such. I don't think there is a conspiracy. BUT, if you don't watch ESPN and think "hmmm....some teams get treated better than others", then you haven't been paying attention. USC, Notre Dame, SEC teams, and UT all get favorable media treatment. That's just a fact. It could stem from the fact that those schools have more fans in the media or larger markets, or whatever. But the reality is that it exists...and it shouldn't. ESPN is SUPPOSED to be a sports news outlet. Instead, they are a platform. The Yankees and Red Sox, the New York NFL teams and the Patriots, SEC/USC/Notre Dame/Ohio State/Longhorns in CFB, the Big East and ACC in CBB...ESPN is a platform for touting those teams and conferences.

The problem is that in the college game, ESPN has a HUGE influence on the perceptions of conferences and teams. In college basketball, it has an effect on the seeding in the tournament, but the 64-team playoff at least allows for non-favored teams to make a statement. That is not the case in college football, where perception is everything. The genius of the original BCS formula was that while a certain human element was taken into account, the computers had a larger influence in deciding what was important as far as team strength. After the media didn't like the results (not enough SEC and USC matchups), they modified the formula to account for the human element more, which is largely subjective.

Now, ESPN can bring in Mack Brown to tell everyone how unfair it is that they're being left out, and appeal to the heart strings of gay people everywhere and it works. Fortunately last year the computers coldly judged the seasons of both teams on their merits, and the correct team made it to the CCG...by the slimmest of margins. But the effect was still felt, as even though OU beat OSU to end the season, and UT beat lowly Texas A&M, more human voters turned toward UT because of the whining on that ESPN platform (which just happened to be the OU game, of all things).

This has HUGE implications. ESPN perception affects how recruits view certain schools, and as we've seen before, how the voters view a team/conference. There is soon coming a time where that human element is going to bite us in the backside, and the college game will simply become a popularity contest (if it isn't already). Yeah, OU has overcome the perceptions so far, and that's one reason I love Stoops. He refuses to play the game, and yet still is able to spit in the face of the system by making it to the MNC game. But it won't happen forever. And THAT's what p*sses me off.

We may be able to get back by winning out. I understand that, and am cool with it. I'm not cool with the off-field obstacles that we have to overcome to get there, though.

Oh for God's sake... every week of every month of every year.. it's the same incessant whining... WAH WAH WAH.. ESPN hates us! WAH WAH WAH! They won't bow down to us! WAH WAH WAH.

Switch the roles for a second... Let's suppose ESPN touts Texas as the greatest team in the history of God.. and then loses in the Big XII championship game by FOUR touchdowns.. but we still get to play for the national championship... and lose that too.

THEN.. the next year, ESPN touts us again as a great team.. and we go to the national championship the very next year... and get humiliated and the team quits during the game...

THEN.. we don't show up in a bowl against a non-BCS team... and we lose to a Big Least team in a bowl... THEN...

We get to play in a conference championship game and a MNC game over an opponent who defeated us by 10 points during that season and who had the same record...

The WHINING on here would make the supplications at the Wailing Wall seem like a slight murmur!

Hell, 2 days ago, Herbie said "Let's see what happens to Oklahoma... stated that you were back and were intriguing."

The Eastern Sports Promotional Network doesn't have ANYTHING against O flippin U for one very simple reason... THERE'S NO MONEY IN IT!

Sweet Blue Jebus on a Bicyle. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[meoveryouxinfinity]

Oh for God's sake... every week of every month of every year.. it's the same incessant whining... WAH WAH WAH.. ESPN hates us! WAH WAH WAH! They won't bow down to us! WAH WAH WAH.

Switch the roles for a second... Let's suppose ESPN touts Texas as the greatest team in the history of God.. and then loses in the Big XII championship game by FOUR touchdowns.. but we still get to play for the national championship... and lose that too.

THEN.. the next year, ESPN touts us again as a great team.. and we go to the national championship the very next year... and get humiliated and the team quits during the game...

THEN.. we don't show up in a bowl against a non-BCS team... and we lose to a Big Least team in a bowl... THEN...

We get to play in a conference championship game and a MNC game over an opponent who defeated us by 10 points during that season and who had the same record...

The WHINING on here would make the supplications at the Wailing Wall seem like a slight murmur!

Hell, 2 days ago, Herbie said "Let's see what happens to Oklahoma... stated that you were back and were intriguing."

The Eastern Sports Promotional Network doesn't have ANYTHING against O flippin U for one very simple reason... THERE'S NO MONEY IN IT!

Sweet Blue Jebus on a Bicyle. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Wow if the past decided the future, we'd be sitting pretty.

[cheezyq]

First of all, who asked you?


BLAH BLAH BLAH, bunch of horse sh*t and other stuff, BLAH BLAH BLAH...

The Eastern Sports Promotional Network doesn't have ANYTHING against O flippin U for one very simple reason... THERE'S NO MONEY IN IT!

...PLUS, I CAN'T READ, CUZ I'M FROM F'N TEXAS.

Can't you f'n read? I didn't say there was a conspiracy against OU or that ESPN hates OU. I said that ESPN favors certain teams and that instead of being a news source they are a platform for their favorite teams (or teams who play their "game"). I also said that OU is NOT one of the favorites because they don't play the game. That's a fact. Your coach played the game last year by using the OU/OSU game as his platform for whining about the tiebreaker. Stoops refused. That also, is a fact. ESPN influences voters and potential recruits. Yet another fact. You are a flaming idiot who cannot comprehend what he is reading and who makes completely irrelevant and benign arguments. Fact.

Go suck on Bevo turds.

[JLEW1818]

Lid is just scared, cause Sammy Boy is coming back

[cheezyq]

Lid is just scared, cause Sammy Boy is coming back

Nah, Lid is just like every other Longhorn and every other Lawyer. He hides behind flowery words and pays no attention to content. Lawyers and Longhorns love to make commanding-style comments about X, but then they conveniently forget that Y contradicts everything they just said about X, hoping that you won't notice.

They also like to twist words to make a point or a contradictory argument, like the above. He turned "ESPN has favorite teams and is a platform for promoting those teams" into "ESPN hates OU". Since he can't successfully raise a relevant counterpoint to what I've said, he has to make it look like I said something completely different, but that sounds "kinda" like what I said. To be honest, it's a useful skill, if you're a snake, a lawyer, or a car salesman.

[Crucifax Autumn]

He's gonna be crapping his pants, Sam or no Sam.

[TexasLidig8r]

First of all, who asked you?



Can't you f'n read? I didn't say there was a conspiracy against OU or that ESPN hates OU. I said that ESPN favors certain teams and that instead of being a news source they are a platform for their favorite teams (or teams who play their "game"). I also said that OU is NOT one of the favorites because they don't play the game. That's a fact. Your coach played the game last year by using the OU/OSU game as his platform for whining about the tiebreaker. Stoops refused. That also, is a fact. ESPN influences voters and potential recruits. Yet another fact. You are a flaming idiot who cannot comprehend what he is reading and who makes completely irrelevant and benign arguments. Fact.

Go suck on Bevo turds.

Well of course the Eastern Sports Promotional Network favors certain teams.. they have a $1.5 BILLION dollar deal with the SEC. They are going to fellate and massage whoever it takes to pimp up the SEC teams because (1). more television viewers mean they can charge higher advertising dollars to the corporations (2). if the SEC teams are perceived to be superior, more people will tune in [either because they hate or like those teams] which mean.. more viewers and more possible consumers of corporate products.

Ou is NOT one of their favorites because the Big XII television contract is crappy because outside of the State of Texas, the main urban areas (thus, more television sets) are not in states which house Big XII teams.

And don't for a second try to say Stoops does not play the game. If he does not, he should be canned! You HAVE to play the game because of the system.

ESPN is NOT a newsource. They are a corporation! A corporation that exists for one ultimate purpose.. to make money. And they don't care one bit about Ou.. or Texas.. or anyone.. unless by doing so, (or more accurately, pretending like they care).. they can make even more money.

THAT is a fact.

[soonerfan28]

Win out and we'll be where we want to be. I don't see anybody finishing undefeated.

[sooner59]

On ESPN, Jesse Palmer just gave his top 5:

1. Florida
2. Texas
3. Alabama
4. Oklahoma
5. USC

I guess we played lights out against Bye, lol.

[Crucifax Autumn]

On ESPN, Jesse Palmer just gave his top 5:

1. Florida
2. Texas
3. Alabama
4. Oklahoma
5. USC

I guess we played lights out against Bye, lol.

shhhhh...don't help Lid argue for the great unbiased ESPN! :D

[cheezyq]

Well of course the Eastern Sports Promotional Network favors certain teams.. they have a $1.5 BILLION dollar deal with the SEC. They are going to fellate and massage whoever it takes to pimp up the SEC teams because (1). more television viewers mean they can charge higher advertising dollars to the corporations (2). if the SEC teams are perceived to be superior, more people will tune in [either because they hate or like those teams] which mean.. more viewers and more possible consumers of corporate products.

Ou is NOT one of their favorites because the Big XII television contract is crappy because outside of the State of Texas, the main urban areas (thus, more television sets) are not in states which house Big XII teams.

And don't for a second try to say Stoops does not play the game. If he does not, he should be canned! You HAVE to play the game because of the system.

ESPN is NOT a newsource. They are a corporation! A corporation that exists for one ultimate purpose.. to make money. And they don't care one bit about Ou.. or Texas.. or anyone.. unless by doing so, (or more accurately, pretending like they care).. they can make even more money.

THAT is a fact.

LOL, you are SOOO lost, dude. You are right, wrong, and also completely missing the point.

1. Yes, ESPN is a corporation, out to make money. Duh.
2. However, ESPN has been posing itself as a NEWS source as well, just like MSNBC or CNN or any other similar network (which, by the way, are also corporate-owned), but with a focus on sports. Why do you think they have insider experts and such? To report the news on teams. They have columnists and analysts, just like every other news organization. They have SportsCenter...to report on the NEWS in sports.
3. But the point (please pay attention) is that ESPN wields their influence to promote specific teams and conferences. That is a problem, a HUGE problem. Sure, in the NFL and the MLB, promoting the Patriots and BoSox doesn't have a major influence on the standings in each league. But it DOES have major implications in college sports, particularly in college football, because they influence the minds of recruits and voters.

I'm not going to restate my point any further because I made it quite clear, and fairly succinctly, in my previous posts.

[rainiersooner]

I agree and disagree. If we win, we should be fine. But I do care, as having OSU and USC pass us is complete BS. OSU passes us because someone at ESPN (Adam Rittenberg) whines like a little baby about his poor Luckeyes. ESPN launched a media blitz last year whining about 45-35, including giving Mack a platform to b*tch and moan during our game against the Cowpokes, and that almost kept us out of the B12CCG. Never mind the facts that there was a 3-way tie and SOS and all that stuff. Never mind that so far the Luckeyes have BARELY beaten Navy at home (one play away from defeat), and lost at home to USC.

Last year ESPN's premier commentators and columnists called Stoops unethical for running up the score and praised Mack for "having a heart" against his opponents. This argument was continually made despite the fact that OU was outscored in the 4th quarter all year long, while Mack was piling it on in the 4th quarter against opponents like Texas A&M and UTEP. Then Rece Davis comes out and says on Saturday that Mack (with the score at 64-7) had "called off the dogs". ESPN has set a precedent that is affecting OU's perception to pollsters and it's getting more and more ridiculous.

The fact that USC passes us ticks me off because they beat Washington State...one of the worst teams this decade. If they're punishing us because of our loss to BYU, who lost badly to FSU (a top 20 team), then where is the similar standard for USC losing to UW, which lost badly to Stanford (a NOT top 20 team)? USC is receiving the Notre Dame treatment, where even their sh*t smells like roses.

Do I think there is a conspiracy? Probably not. But it's very clear that certain teams get favorable treatment over others by ESPN, and that ESPN has a large effect on voter perception. And OU is squarely and firmly in the "others" category, despite constantly proving decade after decade, year after year, that it is one of the best programs in the country. So, yeah, it p*sses me off.

It does **** me off too. But I think there's a perverse inescapable "logic" to how the voters have dealt with this and USC has been the benefit of it.

There are four 1 loss teams at issue here - VT, USC, OSU, and OU.

VT, OUS, and OU have all been placed in an order relative to the ranking of the team that beat them (in this case, Alabama, USC, and BYU). OSU gets the benefit of the fact that USC was never going to fall below BYU, so OSU's loss was going to look better than our loss. That logic should put USC in fourth place amongst these one loss teams. But, the perverse logic of the polls (which is a crutch the voters rely on instead of actually watching games and making informed decisions) means that USC has to be ahead of OSU, and by extension, OU.

What pisses me off is not USC being put ahead of us per se. It is this broken system of voting that defines college football.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I'm not going to restate my point any further because I made it quite clear, and fairly succinctly, in my previous posts.

Repeatedly, clearly, and very easy to follow. Thus Lid's confusion.

[BoulderSooner79]

On ESPN, Jesse Palmer just gave his top 5:

1. Florida
2. Texas
3. Alabama
4. Oklahoma
5. USC

I guess we played lights out against Bye, lol.

That about matches my list based on my perception of "power rating". But if I were to publish a list based on accomplishments, I'd have OU much farther down because there is just not much to go on yet. Stomping an unranked Tulsa team at home is a thin resume combined with losing to BYU. Even in the big12, NU, KU, Mizzou and even Okie-lite have more to brag about right now. All that means is that it's early.

BTW, I'd have 'Bama at the top of my list by a long way given the beating they put on VT and Arkie.