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TheUnnamedSooner
9/10/2009, 04:59 PM
Very biased, but some interesting points...

http://www.texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=986855




"We have worked extremely hard to build a winning program with nice kids that are graduating and I believe the 18 student-athletes that signed with us today will continue that trend. These are all outstanding young men that we believe can be great representatives of our program and help us continue to improve as a football team."

Mack Brown on February 5, 2003

If there's anyone qualified to serve as a historian of the Mack Brown era at Texas, it's probably yours truly, and although I'm not sure that I can give you an exact date when the Texas Longhorns changed as a program, this is the date I've always remembered.

Sure, you can point to the arrival of Vince Young as one date or the departure of the Big Three as another. Personally, I've always pointed towards National Signing Day in 2003 as the moment when the program truly turned a page.

At that time the Longhorns were mired in a three-game losing streak to Oklahoma, which wouldn't end for another 32 months, but the program was stocked from top to bottom with as much young talent in the country. After years of mediocrity, the Longhorns had moved back into the national discussion with a string of four straight recruiting classes that ranked among the top five in the nation.

In fact, a strong case can be made that Mack's 2002 recruiting class is one of the strongest in the modern history of college football. In addition to the six all-Americans, nine NFL players and 10 all-Big 12 players that eventually emerged from the group, it also featured a several guys with checkered pasts, shaky academics and a whole lot of drama.

Former tight ends coach Tim Brewster landed a five-star receiver from Illinois named Marquise Johnson, who ripped his ACL after a car accident that could have killed him and left him in legal limbo, only to not make it to Texas on time because his test score was arbitrarily red flagged by the NCAA. The nation's No. 3 wide receiver never made it to Austin.

There was also the case of fellow-five star cornerback Edorian McCulloch, who was talented enough as a player that he contributed for a top-10 program as a true freshman, but poor enough of a student that he didn't last two semesters on the 40 Acres.



Former Longhorn receiver Robert Timmons.
And then there's the case of Robert Timmons. Outside of Young, he might have been the most talented of the entire bunch. We're talking about a guy with sure-fire NFL talent, but more baggage off the field than Love Field. In fact, Timmons had so much baggage that few schools were willing to take him, but Mack didn't see a problem kid - he saw a young man who had never been given a chance. Timmons had been homeless at one point and had very little direction. Mack hoped by giving him a chance, he could help save a life.

Within a year Timmons was gone and Mack took a hard right turn in his philosophy in recruiting. Never again ? well, almost never again ? would the Longhorn coaching staff completely overlook character because of elite talent. Guys like McCulloch and Timmons weren't college students - they were football mercenaries and Mack Brown had enough.

Perhaps he would never beat Oklahoma or win a national championship, but he was tired of fielding a team that was so completely wrapped up in individuals and bad attitude that it couldn't ever get over the hump. Hell, if he needed proof to prove his point that having the most highly-ranked recruits isn't necessarily the ticket to success, he could simply point a few hundred miles north to Norman. The Sooners didn't have nearly the amount of elite recruits that Texas had possessed, but they had found a way to whip Texas' butt each year.

It was Bob Stoops that gave Mack the blue-print to success, even if Mack didn't know it. When Oklahoma beat Florida State for the national championship in 2000, it wasn't the most talented team in the country, but it took the talent that it did have and maximized it with heart, passion and a togetherness that hadn't been seen in Mack's program.

So, there he was in February of 2003, sitting in front of the media and introducing his newest recruiting class, which didn't have a lot of snap to it. It wasn't a top-10 class, it featured only one five-star prospect (instead of six like the previous season) and it was full of players that Texas might not have gone after in previous seasons.

While detailing each recruit that day, Brown emphasized character, the ability to stay eligible and each prospect's inherent love for the school as much as talent. While others, including myself, doubted whether his approach would survive over the long-term, Mack began to dig in his feet.

Fast-forward 80 months later and look who's enjoying the last laugh. With a national championship ring on his finger, and thereby the clout to pretty much do whatever he wants until he retires, Mack has finally built the program into the image of which he's dreamed.

The Longhorns might never be the most talented team in the nation ever again, but by God they were never going to labeled soft on Mack's watch again. They would never quit on him again. The best way to nip bad attitude is to stay away from it in the first place.

He always knew that he'd have enough talent, but he wanted guys that would come out of a street fight alive and he needed them to be honor roll students at the same time.

"The coaches that we hire look at our talent when they come in and say, 'I'm surprised. It's not as good as I thought,'" Brown recently said in an article on ESPN.com. "I say, 'Well, you're going to be surprised on Saturday. They're going to play better than they are.' Since we've got good kids, they play hard every Saturday. They're not flat much. We may not play good, but we're not going to blow games any more because our kids have pride and they are going to play."

Translation - Texas used to blow games by coming out too flat, too often and because the players didn't have enough pride. Never again.

Perhaps the most ironic aspect of a story that is full of ironies is the fact that at the same time Mack was starting to build a team in an image that the 2000 version of Bob Stoops would have embraced with wildly open arms, Stoops' own recruiting philosophy was starting to morph into something different as well.

Just like Mack, the 2002 Longhorn recruiting class ended up being the straw that broke Stoops' back, but for completely different reasons. Despite riding a three-game winning streak over the Longhorns and owning a national championship ring, Stoops couldn't touch Texas with a 10-foot pole when it came to recruiting and it drove his staff up a tree.

It didn't matter that the Longhorns were soft and that the Sooners were the kings of college football, he couldn't close the deal with the likes of Justin Blalock, Aaron Harris, Garnet Smith and a large majority of players that Texas coveted.



The recruitment of former UT running back Selvin Young was a bitter pill for Bob Stoops and Co. to swallow.
The player that ended up serving as the true dagger in Stoops' heart that year was former Jersey Village star Selvin Young. The Longhorns had a freshman by the name of Cedric Benson starring in their backfield in the 2002 season and senior Quentin Griffin was set to depart. Oklahoma offered the chance for a starting position in year one, while the prospect loomed that he might sit No. 2 behind Benson until 2005 if he joined the Longhorns.

So, what happens? Young joined the Longhorns and the entire Oklahoma staff flipped its lid. In fact, if you listen closely, I think you can still hear the OU staff's screams from that day in the distance.

If it was Timmons that changed everything for Mack, it might have been Young that changed everything for Stoops. Frankly, you could pick any of the dozens of head-to-head recruiting victories that Mack enjoyed over "Big-game Bob" during a five-year losing streak. The thing that few understood at the time is that Stoops might have had a championship ring on his finger, but he was consumed with something that Mack had - talent. Lots of it.

Stoops had reached the mountaintop by being a great coach that won without elite talent and now he wanted to cash in. In his mind, the Oklahoma program was a dynasty waiting to happen. If he could ever bring in the kind of talent that Mack Brown had, nothing could stop the Sooners from winning a string of national championships.

Stoops was already beating his top rival with lesser talent, so once he could swing the talent edge in his direction, he'd never have to worry about the Longhorns while Mack was in charge. Of course, the problem with the whole plan was that he would never have more talent than Mack if he kept trying to break through Texas' clutch of top in-state talent.

A decision had to be made and just like the Nazi's in Raiders of the Lost Arc, Stoops coveted Ark of the Covenant. At the same exact time that Mack was pulling back the reigns a little in his own pursuit of every five-star player on the planet, Stoops was ramping up an aggressive nationwide search for the kind of talent that could match anyone in the nation.

Beginning in 2002 and building steam each following year, the Sooners started to recruit just about every state in the nation. Despite its history of building championship teams around kids from Oklahoma and Texas, Stoops went nationwide with his approach.

Within three recruiting cycles, Stoops had changed the fabric of his program by making the decision to stop making the state of Texas his most important target. Suddenly, the Sooners were sniffing around New Jersey, Florida and California for players.

In 2005 when the Sooners landed the nation's No. 3 recruiting class according to Rivals.com, only 33 percent of the class was comprised of kids from the state of Texas. Meanwhile, that same year the Longhorns brought in the nation's No. 20 class and it was almost exclusively (87 percent) comprised of home-grown, in-state talent.

The very next year the Sooners signed 28 more prospects and only 10 (37 percent) were from Texas, while others hailed from Virginia, California, Utah and Kansas. The bottom line was that Bob Stoops wanted as much talent as possible and he was tired of waiting around for it.

He's never blinked at taking JUCO players or transfers with checkered pasts or high school prospects with serious off-field baggage. You don't have to look any further than the last 12 months for proof that you'll never see Stoops have a press conference where he talks about the importance of "having good kids that graduate." If you need evidence, look into the tales of Nevada freshman defensive end Justin Chaisson or offensive line transfer Jarvis Jones.

It's about talent and the idea that the guy with the most at his disposal wins out in the end.

So, here we are in September of 2009 and both Mack Brown and Bob Stoops finally have the programs they've been waiting to control for the last decade. Perhaps the biggest irony in the history of college football ironies is that both coaches have morphed into the other's old image.

Mack Brown's program is tough, scrappy and never quits. He has a team full of players that will bleed for the honor of the Texas football program. Outside of crazy, old Uncle Howard Schnellenberger, you won't find many people questioning Texas' toughness these days.

Meanwhile, the Sooners have become the Glass Joe of college football. When BYU lineman Jan Jorgensen remarked last week that his team needed only to punch the Sooners in the mouth if they wanted to win the game, most of the nation laughed.

He was right. Oklahoma is soft. They are the 2000-03 Texas Longhorns in 2009. If you punch them in the mouth, there's a great chance they will crater. The evidence of that was on display against the Cougars in Dallas over the weekend. Despite holding a halftime lead over the BYU, the Sooners were a defeated team as soon as the Cougars landed a hard right hook before the bell that sent starting quarterback Sam Bradford to the canvas.

"It was a total morgue," Oklahoma offensive coordinator Kevin Wilson told the Oklahoma media on Tuesday. "It was a concern. I was a cheerleader for 10 minutes: 'We're winning. Open your eyes. Get a little spunk here. Let's go! This is why we practice hard, for great games. Let's go!"

As it turns out, the loss to the Cougars was the continuation of a terrible trend for the Sooners. Since the 2006 season, Oklahoma is 7-7 in games that are decided by 10 points or less, including four straight losses. You have to go all the way back to the middle part of the 2007 season against Iowa State to find a close game that the Sooners were able to win.

The good news is that they have blown most of their opponents out of the water. The bad news is that if they find themselves in a close game, they aren't finishing. By contrast, the Sooners were 16-7 in games decided by 10 points or less from 2000-05.

Of course, that what was back when Oklahoma was winning BCS bowl games.

Meanwhile, since 2004 the Longhorns own a 16-5 record in games decided by 10 points or less. In the four years prior to 2004, the Longhorns were a below-average 6-7 in close games.

Oh yeah, they've also been winning all of their BCS games and if they beat Oklahoma in October, they'll have won four of their last five against Stoops in Dallas.

After all of these years, the facts point out the obvious. Even if the rest of the nation hasn't caught on, Mack has become Stoops and Stoops has become Mack, or at least they've become each other's old images.

The only constant is that after all of these years, Stoops almost certainly still looks down to Austin and wishes he had the team that Mack Brown has. It was true back in 2002 and it appears that it might stay true for several more years at a minimum.

OU_PhD
9/10/2009, 05:01 PM
Wow, is that all they can do is write about OU?

Bob Stoops has 6 Big XII titles... Mack? one.

That's all I need to see. One coach has dominated his conference and the other has failed.

TheUnnamedSooner
9/10/2009, 05:01 PM
Had we beaten Florida, I wonder what his thoughts would be.

OU_PhD
9/10/2009, 05:05 PM
Mack sure does get a lot of credit for barely beating a bad Ohio State team last year, a bad Arizona State team in the Holiday Bowl and almost lost to a putrid Iowa team in the Alamo bowl... major kudos and what a step up for Texas. I guess they're just happy to not be losing Holiday Bowls to Oregon et al.

Breadburner
9/10/2009, 05:07 PM
"The only constant is that after all of these years, Stoops almost certainly still looks down to Austin and wishes he had the team that Mack Brown has. It was true back in 2002 and it appears that it might stay true for several more years at a minimum. "

That's about the biggest bunch of ****ing god damn **** sucking bull**** I have ever read...

Yankeeracers
9/10/2009, 05:08 PM
If this was written on the Horns message board it would have the same amount of credibility.

TheUnnamedSooner
9/10/2009, 05:09 PM
Plus we have yet to see what this year's texass team is really like and we won't until RRS.

Sasakwa
9/10/2009, 05:10 PM
Stoops had reached the mountaintop by being a great coach that won without elite talent...

Seems like I've heard this sentiment before. Get really good players that want to win and want to be at OU instead of elite players that just need a school, any contending school, to showcase their talent and get them in the first round of the draft.

TexasLidig8r
9/10/2009, 05:11 PM
Mack sure does get a lot of credit for barely beating a bad Ohio State team last year,

The same Ohio State team that was one fumble away from a rematch with USC in the Rose Bowl?.. with numerous NFL players coming from their defense.. co Big 10/11 champs? If they were "bad," what were they doing in a BCS bowl?

a bad Arizona State team in the Holiday Bowl

The same Az State team that was co Pac 10 champs, that was ranked 2 placed behind the West Virginia team that throttled you in your bowl game.. THAT AZ State team?

and almost lost to a putrid Iowa team in the Alamo bowl... major kudos and what a step up for Texas. I guess they're just happy to not be losing Holiday Bowls to Oregon et al.

The "Step Up" for Texas perhaps should refer to our bowl record, including being 3 - 0 in the BCS bowls. Of course, you haven't won a bowl game since... it seems like the FIRST George Bush administration!

Yankeeracers
9/10/2009, 05:12 PM
Basically Mack added heart to a program. So prior to OU winning it's last MNC Texas had no heart. Well I'm glad to see that a University that's been around a hundred years has finally figured it out. Way to show up a day late and a dollar short.

TexasLidig8r
9/10/2009, 05:14 PM
"
That's about the biggest bunch of ****ing god damn **** sucking bull**** I have ever read...

No reason to direct profanity to the Lord.

The article was written by Ketch.. who, as I understand it, owns the orangebloods site. Of course there's going to be a Texas slant to it. At the same time, if you can step away from the Pabst Blue Ribbon, calm down and read objectively, there are some rational, reasonable points he makes...

For example, 7 - 7 since 2006 in all games decided by 10 points or fewer should raise a few eyebrows.

rainiersooner
9/10/2009, 05:14 PM
I find sports journalists to be ridiculous. They want to tell a story first, then they go and look for facts to support it.

I love how we haven't even played Texas or OSU this year and already we've ceded the Big XII to them.

There are a lot of snaps between now and January.

CtheB
9/10/2009, 05:17 PM
The "Step Up" for Texas perhaps should refer to our bowl record, including being 3 - 0 in the BCS bowls. Of course, you haven't won a bowl game since... it seems like the FIRST George Bush administration!

Conference champions generally get a tougher draw than conference bridesmaids....generally.

Yankeeracers
9/10/2009, 05:19 PM
Between this and the OSU fluff piece I really don't take much stock in it. This will sound elitist and it probably is, but this is the greatest Football program in college football history. Impressing me would take alot.

rainiersooner
9/10/2009, 05:23 PM
Conference champions generally get a tougher draw than conference bridesmaids....generally.

Oh, I don't know, I think Texas' 2006 victory against Iowa in the Alamo Bowl is REALLY impressive.

CtheB
9/10/2009, 05:29 PM
And the Texas fans can say what they want about Boise State and West Virginia. No one else beat Boise State that year, and that Sooner team won the conference title with a WR at quarterback, not to mention the fact that WVA was playing in the national title game until Pat White was injured against Pittsburgh. Other than that, we lost to two SEC teams in BCS title games, just like every other team that has faced an SEC team in the BCS title game, and lost to a USC team that many would say is one of the best teams ever.

So they can joke about us choking all they want. Fact is, they've won 2 of the last 3 RRS and played for ZERO conference championships. Sure, we may have our troubles in January, but I'll be damned if I take crap from a school that clearly has the same troubles in October/November.

So shutyeryapper Lid, and go back into your glass house.

okiewaker
9/10/2009, 05:34 PM
I don't know. For a coach who is washed up they sure do have alot of hardware at the Switzer Center from the past 10 yrs, and some of it recent. I guess since JG and SB are injured, Sooners are done.

TheUnnamedSooner
9/10/2009, 05:36 PM
I hope these type articles make it to Stoops' desk and the locker room.

SeattleOUstudent
9/10/2009, 05:50 PM
Damn. Phone in this football season. Done.

PLaw
9/10/2009, 05:55 PM
Very biased, but some interesting points...

http://www.texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=986855

"Meanwhile, the Sooners have become the Glass Joe of college football. When BYU lineman Jan Jorgensen remarked last week that his team needed only to punch the Sooners in the mouth if they wanted to win the game, most of the nation laughed.

He was right. Oklahoma is soft. They are the 2000-03 Texas Longhorns in 2009. If you punch them in the mouth, there's a great chance they will crater. The evidence of that was on display against the Cougars in Dallas over the weekend. Despite holding a halftime lead over the BYU, the Sooners were a defeated team as soon as the Cougars landed a hard right hook before the bell that sent starting quarterback Sam Bradford to the canvas. "
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++
I was thinking this same thing earlier this week. Really, since the TGOWWDNS, the Sooners "fight", "swagger", "expectation to win" has been hit or miss. When the chips are down, you just don't know how the team is going to respond. We've certainly lost the junkyard dog edge that characterized the 1999-2003.

Really disappointed against Boise, WVU, texas, the start of lsu game. Darn proud in defeat against Florida.

Yeah, Big 12 championships are great, but when you put your rep on the line in the bowl game and lay an egg that sux.

Sooner Born, Sooner Bred

BOOMER

Blitzkrieg
9/10/2009, 06:24 PM
For example, 7 - 7 since 2006 in all games decided by 10 points or fewer should raise a few eyebrows.


What was the Tech game decided by in Lubbock last year? Or The Kstate game x2 the two years prior? A&M? Two outta the last three?

That's a real murderer's row.

OU_PhD
9/10/2009, 06:37 PM
Didn't Mack just recently end his two-loss streak to lowly basement team Texas A&M? How long is their current win streak against Kansas State? Texas Tech? These are recent years.

How many Big XII titles has Mack won? Over the last 10 years, I know Bob Stoops has won 60% of his and won the division 70% of the time. Hard to argue with those kind of percentages. Hell, Bob has played in the National Championship game roughly 40% of his career.

Ketch can suck a fat one and so can TexasLidig8tor

Theskipster
9/10/2009, 06:50 PM
For a guy who claims to know the Longhorns history so well, he sure forgot about all those those "super high character" recruits who became purple drank using criminals throughout the summer of 2007.

Theskipster
9/10/2009, 06:53 PM
Really, you know that you are recruiting only "high character" recruits when you have to hire a full time staff member whose purpose is to keep those "high character" recruits out of trouble.

olevetonahill
9/10/2009, 08:53 PM
I just hope our whole ****ing Team has read that **** ;)

PLaw
9/10/2009, 09:06 PM
For a guy who claims to know the Longhorns history so well, he sure forgot about all those those "super high character" recruits who became purple drank using criminals throughout the summer of 2007.


Or how about the ones still on the roster - right, Serge;) !

BOOMER

stoopified
9/10/2009, 09:09 PM
Well at least TexLid is still here to take shots at.What happened to HerrScholz,Hook- em Horns and all the other Orange Cow cult members?

TheUnnamedSooner
9/10/2009, 09:24 PM
Well at least TexLid is still here to take shots at.What happened to HerrScholz,Hook- em Horns and all the other Orange Cow cult members?

I was wondering the same thing.

Texas Golfer
9/10/2009, 09:35 PM
No reason to direct profanity to the Lord.

The article was written by Ketch.. who, as I understand it, owns the orangebloods site. Of course there's going to be a Texas slant to it. At the same time, if you can step away from the Pabst Blue Ribbon, calm down and read objectively, there are some rational, reasonable points he makes...

For example, 7 - 7 since 2006 in all games decided by 10 points or fewer should raise a few eyebrows.

As much as I hate agreeing with Lidig8r, I can't dispute what this guy said.

We lost to WAC (BSU) and MWC (BYU) teams by a single point when we had the lead late in the game. That doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling that we have the heart of our 2000 team.

sooneron
9/10/2009, 09:41 PM
I find sports journalists to be ridiculous. They want to tell a story first, then they go and look for facts to support it.



The "writer" isn't even a journalist, this is pulled from a rivals site.
The guy probably doesn't even know that the qb that won OU a title before Josh was from Cali.
States represented on the 1985 team, OK, texas, mo, ark, ks, ca, fl, wa, co.

This guy is an idiot that doesn't even bother looking for facts.

sooneron
9/10/2009, 09:42 PM
I believe hook'em is permabanned, he was a pos anyway.

sooneron
9/10/2009, 09:46 PM
I hope someone does put this up on the locker room wall. Even if it is just innerweb fodder.

olevetonahill
9/10/2009, 09:53 PM
Well at least TexLid is still here to take shots at.What happened to HerrScholz,Hook- em Horns and all the other Orange Cow cult members?

Warsh yer MOUTH out with soap .:eek:

TXBOOMER
9/10/2009, 09:54 PM
If Colt goes down against a decent team we will see how great that team of great guys/over achievers does. I had no idea texass had so many Rudy's on the team.

sooneron
9/10/2009, 09:59 PM
All this info from the ever-worthless Ketch and yet....




texas is ranked first in recruiting heading into 2010.
:rolleyes:

sooneron
9/10/2009, 10:01 PM
And when did Mack make the decision to recruit someone that could never possibly pass an upper level college class, yet alone, speak English?

http://media.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/raiders/vince-young-shirtless.jpg

beer4me
9/10/2009, 10:06 PM
pfft

Dizzle Shizzle
9/10/2009, 11:51 PM
Nice story if it fits the premise you want it to. Very small sample size to say OU has no heart and UT does. Win a couple of games where you are underdogs before you start crowing about how big a heart you have.

westcoast_sooner
9/11/2009, 12:14 AM
No reason to direct profanity to the Lord.

The article was written by Ketch.. who, as I understand it, owns the orangebloods site. Of course there's going to be a Texas slant to it. At the same time, if you can step away from the Pabst Blue Ribbon, calm down and read objectively, there are some rational, reasonable points he makes...

For example, 7 - 7 since 2006 in all games decided by 10 points or fewer should raise a few eyebrows.

As much as I don't like agreeing with Ketch, he does make valid points. If the Sooners want this kind of thing to stop being posted, they need to step up and win the games cited.

Fact is, the last several years when the Sooners are playing in a BCS game, they somehow manage to lose focus between winning the Big XII Championship game and their Bowl.

Last week's game had some "characteristics" of a bowl game - neutral site, ranked opponent, long layoff, much hype before the game... I'm wondering if the prep for the game, in addition to the loss of key members from last year's team and the "play calling blunders" that Wilson has admitted to also are all factors. Couple all that with the penalties and injuries and you have a recipe for disaster.

Overall, these things should be correctable. Let's see if we can shut Jeff Ketchum up - well, probably not... Oh well.

47straight
9/11/2009, 02:14 PM
This article was written by Geoff Ketchum, a man known to write nasty, unproven allegations about recruits' mothers (literally) when they do not sign with Texas. Mostly because he spent the previous 3 months writing stories to his subscribers with hot, inside information about how the kid was going to sign.

And he did all this to sell and keep subscriptions to orangebloods.com

This man doesn't even rise to the level of "sports journalist."