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JohnnyMack
9/10/2009, 12:41 PM
I'm certain our brethren in the UK don't understand what all the fuss is about.

JLEW1818
9/10/2009, 12:47 PM
" YOU LIE!!!!" [hairGel]

soonerscuba
9/10/2009, 01:06 PM
I'm certain our brethren in the UK don't understand what all the fuss is about.Oh, what I would give to have President's Questions.

delhalew
9/10/2009, 01:10 PM
Skip to about 1:30 on this one if you've had enough smoke blown up your ***.

The only problem with this feed was you can't see Pelosi's face. She had a "how dare you shout at my president and personal savior" look that was priceless. Joe just looked irritated somebody woke him up.

Yeah, they have fun with these things in England. If somebody is talking ****. they call them on it. I think Wilson is jerkoff for apologizing.

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SoonerStormchaser
9/10/2009, 01:10 PM
It was outta line and highly inappropriate...but someone needed to say it (just not in that forum).

delhalew
9/10/2009, 01:26 PM
It was outta line and highly inappropriate...but someone needed to say it (just not in that forum).

I love watching British parliament. They shout and murmur throughout the whole thing.

People need to start calling him out while he is in the act. Otherwise, dummies just think, "Oh well, right there he said no illegals..bla bla." I said it before. Writing a check, his butt can't cash.

Gresho Murford
9/10/2009, 01:31 PM
was he lying on that statement though?

Petro-Sooner
9/10/2009, 01:32 PM
Awesome!

landrun
9/10/2009, 01:35 PM
What's the big deal? Really. I remember the democrats BOOING during Bush's state of the union addresses. That, and giving themselves a standing ovation for ensuring social security remains doomed to bankruptcy.

This is mild compared to what Bush had to endure.

Jello Biafra
9/10/2009, 02:05 PM
im suprised it hasn't already been posted....where is the kevin wilson Vs. Barack bin laden post?

delhalew
9/10/2009, 02:07 PM
was he lying on that statement though?

Yes, because even if he wanted to prohibit illegals from taking part in this, it's not a priority of the legislature due to the high percentage of liberals in the House.

He's not gonna refuse to sign a bill on the basis of this, even though the majority of Americans are tired of watching this go on with every other entitlement program we have.

Then there is the idea of appealing to a soon to be voting block that many believe they are pursuing through amnesty or;) immigration reform.

OklahomaTuba
9/10/2009, 02:25 PM
So when does Obama apologize to Palin for calling her a liar in a join session of congress?????

Was very Presidential if I say so myself. And by Presidential I really mean bitter, angry and immature.

rainiersooner
9/10/2009, 03:41 PM
I love the House of Commons. I was actually watching some youtube clips today and thinking the same thing - how stale and deferential we are to our leaders compared to other countries.

tommieharris91
9/10/2009, 03:45 PM
Y'all might wanna get to giving some money to Wilson's reelection campaing. His opponent has $400k in the past 18 hours. Wilson? $200.

LosAngelesSooner
9/10/2009, 03:55 PM
was he lying on that statement though?No. The bill in the house does not allow for health care for illegals. Joe Wilson was completely wrong.

Not that that's surprising.

Chuck Bao
9/10/2009, 04:44 PM
The ********* needs to be kicked in the head.

How the hell can anyone guaran-damn-tee that no illegal alien ever gets state funded health care? Are any of you willing to be on guard at every emergency room in the country and deny emergency care to anyone who cannot prove US citizenship? Jesus would be so proud.

"You lie" was wrong, disrespectful and just more intentional political hubris trying to derail something that is important to all Americans. The guy needs to be thrown out of congress.

soonerx
9/10/2009, 04:46 PM
No. The bill in the house does not allow for health care for illegals. Joe Wilson was completely wrong.

Not that that's surprising.

Because they'll be made legal. A half-truth is still a lie, and Obama's been telling them from the beginning.

Not that that's surprising.

OUHOMER
9/10/2009, 04:55 PM
No. The bill in the house does not allow for health care for illegals. Joe Wilson was completely wrong.

Not that that's surprising.

But, but, if an illegal enters a hospital emergency room for treatment, and he can not pay cash, who will pay for it?

delhalew
9/10/2009, 05:03 PM
But, but, if an illegal enters a hospital emergency room for treatment, and he can not pay cash, who will pay for it?

We already do that, Homer.

Chuck Bao
9/10/2009, 05:07 PM
But, but, if an illegal enters a hospital emergency room for treatment, and he can not pay cash, who will pay for it?

How does this differ from the current system? Are we willing to say: "just go away and die?" Probably not. If the whole issue of health care reform revolves around some illegal aliens getting emergency care, I think some people really need to think about it again.

OUHOMER
9/10/2009, 05:35 PM
We already do that, Homer.

I know but who pays? do the hospitals right it off and just make it up on the backs of those who are covered, do the states pay for it, do the feds pay for it.

Bottom line we pay for it.

When my nephew was born my sister did not have insurance. he was 2 months early and had to stay in the hospital for almost a month. When my BIL started getting the bills , he went to the hospital administrator and was going to try and work up a payment plan.

not only did they work out a payment plan they reduced the entire bill by about 40%.

How can they do that?

My Opinion Matters
9/10/2009, 05:36 PM
I'm not sure what's more embarrassing--the right wing continuing to humiliate itself, or the zealots that seem to revel in this role.

Curly Bill
9/10/2009, 05:47 PM
I'm not sure what's more embarrassing--the right wing continuing to humiliate itself, or the zealots that seem to revel in this role.

I think the most embarrassing thing might be those on the left that express such outrage at the way Brack is treated, as if a president has never been ridiculed, harrassed or called names before.

Seriously...cry me a river.

Chuck Bao
9/10/2009, 06:15 PM
I know but who pays? do the hospitals right it off and just make it up on the backs of those who are covered, do the states pay for it, do the feds pay for it.

Bottom line we pay for it.

When my nephew was born my sister did not have insurance. he was 2 months early and had to stay in the hospital for almost a month. When my BIL started getting the bills , he went to the hospital administrator and was going to try and work up a payment plan.

not only did they work out a payment plan they reduced the entire bill by about 40%.

How can they do that?

The flip side of it is that a hospital in Sherman killed my father and there were hospital employees saying that they witnessed the negligence. The hospital was presenting my mom with huge medical bills afterwards, but those were eventually dropped after the hospital lawyers got involved.

My mom was very opposed to a lawsuit and decided that "what is done, is done." She could have cashed in, but she realized that her husband wouldn't be coming back and a lawsuit wouldn't change that. She just assumed that the hospital would in the future take greater care for those recovering from standard medical procedures.

I think I'm saying that if more people, like my mom, are not out for revenge or a payoff, then medical expenses can decline. Hospitals can afford more for truly important and life saving care.

My Opinion Matters
9/10/2009, 06:18 PM
I think the most embarrassing thing might be those on the left that express such outrage at the way Brack is treated, as if a president has never been ridiculed, harrassed or called names before.

Seriously...cry me a river.

That too.

delhalew
9/10/2009, 06:21 PM
The flip side of it is that a hospital in Sherman killed my father and there were hospital employees saying that they witnessed the negligence. The hospital was presenting my mom with huge medical bills afterwards, but those were eventually dropped after the hospital lawyers got involved.

My mom was very opposed to a lawsuit and decided that "what is done, is done." She could have cashed in, but she realized that her husband wouldn't be coming back and a lawsuit wouldn't change that. She just assumed that the hospital would in the future take greater care for those recovering from standard medical procedures.

I think I'm saying that if more people, like my mom, are not out for revenge or a payoff, then medical expenses can decline. Hospitals can afford more for truly important and life saving care.

This. Some people should sue. Cases that are ruled to be frivolous, make the plaintiff responsible for court costs. That's what most want when they say tort reform. Some also want caps on settlements.

Sorry about your mom Chuck. Something similar happened with my Grandmother.

I Am Right
9/10/2009, 06:23 PM
Joe Wilson Was Right! Obama's Lies Demeaned the Presidency
September 10, 2009

Listen To It! WMP | RealPlayer

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BEGIN TRANSCRIPT


RUSH: It was disgusting and it was reprehensible and it was predictable. Greetings, my friends, it's Rush Limbaugh, this the EIB Network and the Limbaugh Institute for Advanced Conservative Studies. Great to have you here. Telephone number, 800-282-2882. And the e-mail address, [email protected].

The office of the president of the United States was demeaned last night. President Barack Obama gave a grossly inappropriate and, to me, embarrassing speech, a campaign speech disguised as a big speech to a joint session of Congress. It was grossly inappropriate in content. There were lies, falsehoods, distortions, it was embarrassing in tone. He called his critics liars when his own positions have been proven to be untrue. It's just like this CNN poll. That speech last night was a fraud. It was dishonest. It demeaned the office of the presidency. Now, after the speech CNN and Opinion Research Corporation released a flash poll and said, wow, look at this: Two-thirds of the people who watched the speech have changed their mind. You want to hear who was sampled? Forty-five percent Democrat, 18% Republican. That is also fraud. Passing a poll with a sample like that off as a representative sample of the country is absolutely fraudulent, which is what the entire State-Controlled Media has become.

Last night was uncomfortable, especially how about if you're a parent and you had your children in school this week, the president's speech to the kids, just as I said, it was to set up last night's speech. We're being told and kids are being told to look up to this man. It was an awful speech. He was petulant; he was childish; he was a community organizer and agitator; he lied; he was divisive; he attacked me; he attacked Sarah Palin; he attacked conservative Republicans in Congress who dare to challenge government-run health care. He continued to attack tens of millions of Americans who spent the summer attending town hall meetings. It was crude. It was disgusting. The most crude and disgusting performance by any president I have seen.

You want a summary of the lies? He lied about only 5% of Americans being forced to the public option. Not true. He lied about the money he would drain from Medicare. Not true what he said. He lied about end-of-life decisions which comes down to rationing. He lied about coverage for illegal aliens, on and on and on, having attacked and lied throughout this thing. He then claims he wants to work with Republicans with whom he has not met since April. He claims to be nonpartisan, above the fray. Now, Joe Wilson, congressman, South Carolina, this is what happened at one point during the speech last night.

OBAMA: There are also those who claim that our reform efforts would insure illegal immigrants. This too is false. The reforms -- (crowd rumbling) the reforms I am proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally.

WILSON: You lie! (crowd rumbling)

OBAMA: It's not true.

RUSH: That's Joe Wilson, a congressman from South Carolina, a freshman. That was a blatant lie. I'm going to tell you something. One of the things that's really irritated me all morning and last night was listening to Republicans, even after Wilson has apologized, and I wish he had not, but he's apologized and even after he's apologized, members of his own party are all over television denigrating him, "It was bad decorum." Folks, can I tell you what is happening here? This speech last night and this administration is not your average presidential administration. This is not a garden party. This is not a lecture at Harvard or any other University. We are in the process, we are in the midst of an administration that is trying to totally tear down the institutions and traditions that have made this country great. He is lying, President Obama is, from the moment he opens his mouth until he ends the speech. I was shouting, "You're lying," throughout the speech at the television. You're lying! It's a lie! Joe Wilson simply articulated what millions of Americans were saying. This is a beanbag.

We're not talking about the Marquess of Queensberry rules here. This is not some debating society. You people in the Republican Party, I've heard you. You are accusing this administration and its allies and all the entire left of dismantling every institution that has defined this country's greatness. And if you now are going to attack one of your own, Joe Wilson, especially after he's apologized for simply joining the argument -- it's about time somebody said this to Obama! It's about time Biden got upset. It's about time Michelle Obama got upset. It's about time that Nancy Pelosi got upset. These people get a free rein. They can sit there and boo George Bush in 2005 all they want. You got Code Pink come in congressional and Senate hearings and disrupt, they can do their Abu Ghraib stuff, and they say they're great citizens, they are great heroes, these are great examples. Remember, dissent was the new definition of patriotism. "But, Rush, but, Rush, this was a total departure from parliamentary decorum and rules." Don't give me that with all those standing ovations last night, a 35-minute speech stretched out to almost one hour because of the standing O and the applauses and so forth.


Folks, we are in a serious struggle to save our country and Joe Wilson voiced what millions of Americans have been saying about this man, Barack Obama, for months. And if we're going to start censuring our own people on our team who are willing to try, then maybe we need new people in the game. I was ecstatic when I heard that last night. This is serious. This is not normal, every day politics. One of the things I'm going to do here shortly, I've got the standard traditional analysis of the speech, but I'm going to translate this speech for you last night and I'm going to give it to you as if Obama is speaking to you, in addition to the standard line-by-line analysis. Last night he equated profits with overhead. I don't know if he's just stupid. Somebody wrote this speech. Somebody had to put that in the teleprompter. Somebody vetted the speech. Profits are equated with overhead? And somehow we've gotta reduce them. I know he hates profit, and I know he wants to use profit as a weapon against successful people. But profit is what's left after the overhead and the other expenses. He's either a blooming idiot or thinks that we are and knows that the State-Controlled Media is not going to call him out on this kind of thing.

There was another thing last night that I just had to laugh. He is going to cut $500 billion from Medicare but not from coverage. No, from fraud and waste. Well, if he's going to do that, why not do that now, why not do that six months ago, why not do it today? Why wait four years? But that's not even the most salient point about this. Stop and think of this. Barack Obama, the architect of waste, fraud, deficit spending, lying, everything you can think of, says that he is going to use the waste and fraud and abuse in government to pay for more government! The waste and fraud and abuse in government is going to be used to pay for more government. I was just stunned last night. Joe Wilson need not have apologized and members of his own party need not jump on him now, all this business about decorum. Folks, if we're serious about the things that we're charging, if we're serious about the things that we're accusing this administration of, then we cannot trash and destroy and discard one of our own. I mean finally somebody in the Republican Party spoke up. May not have been the best place, but, frankly, I don't have a problem at all with what he did because of the serious nature of what we face, the serious nature of what we're up against. But, for crying out loud, somebody finally comes along and tries to get in the game. You know a lot of people in that room last night know he's lying through his teeth and wanted to say it and Joe Wilson finally did. Let's listen to some audio sound bites of the State-Controlled Media and Obama flacks calling this kind of heckling unprecedented.

WILLIAMS: The president was heckled by at least one member of Congress. For a time it sounded much more like the British parliament than a joint session of Congress.

BLITZER: It was sort of unusual to hear one congressman say --

BROWN: "You lie."

BLITZER: "You lie" to the president.

AXELROD: I have never seen it before in a presidential address and it was unfortunate.

GIBSON: I have never heard anybody in a presidential speech, be it a State of the Union, somebody yell out "lie" when the president says something in a speech.

RUSH: Well, there's a first time for everything, and it happened to be true, Charlie, it happened to be true. Here's Vice President Biden. This is on Good Morning America today and Diane Sawyer said, "We watched your face at that moment, you turned to Pelosi, what did you say to her?"

BIDEN: I was embarrassed. I was embarrassed for a chamber and a Congress I love. I served there for 36 years and I thought it demeaned the institution, and I thought it sent a signal to every young person out there that -- that was very, very damaging, but I know Joe, he apologized, I take him at his word that he got caught up in the emotion of the moment, but the fact is that the assertion the president made is absolutely true. It will not cover undocumented aliens.

RUSH: It's simply not true. It will cover undocumented aliens. Now, it may not specifically say so in the bill. But we have to know that what's coming is amnesty. They're going to be made legal. We're going to have all of this. If Obama gets his way we're going to legalize 12 to 20 million illegals, and they're going to become citizens and they're going to get coverage. And they're, at the end of the day, going to still be illegal regardless the law and amnesty and everything else. It's coming, there's no question, this is the point. This is precisely what Obama wants to accomplish. We got new job numbers today. We got new foreclosure numbers today. It's through the roof bad. The crisis that should be addressed by this president last night is the one of his making: nearly three million unemployed. He had the audacity to open up last night and tell people we're coming back from the brink. He had the audacity to lie about the state of the economy and his role in repairing it. He's in the process of destroying it, and on purpose. And this is what we know and finally a guy stood up last night and said "you lie." He ought to be a guidepost, Joe Wilson, for everybody else on our side in dealing with this. Let's go back to 2005. It's unprecedented, Charlie Gibson never heard anything like this; Brian Williams never heard anything like this. State of the Union address, first one of his second term, February 2, 2005.


BUSH: By the year 2042 the entire system would be exhausted and bankrupt. (crowd rumbling) If steps are not taken to avert that outcome, the only solutions would be dramatically higher taxes, massive new borrowing, or sudden and severe cuts in Social Security benefits or other government programs. (booing)

RUSH: Got booed in 2005, what about the decorum there, what about the precious protocol? And, of course, Bush was telling the truth here about Social Security where it was headed and his attempt to reform it. Same night, same speech, Ted Koppel reported after the speech, said this.

KOPPEL: When the president talked about the bankruptcy of Social Security there were clearly some Democrats on the floor who thought that that was taking it too far, and they did something that -- they booed.

RUSH: Well, Ted Koppel describing it, it happened numerous times, and they did something that was taking it too far. Bush wasn't lying about anything. Barack Obama was lying through his teeth last night. That's taking it too far. That demeaned the entire chamber. If you want to talk about demeaning the chamber, the president of the United States demeaned the chamber last night. He showed up and lied through his teeth. He was petulant, he was mean-spirited, he was angry, he was arrogant, conceited, condescending, but more than anything else he lied through his teeth and everybody knows it. Everybody knows it. Here's John Roberts, cookie cutter anchor at the time working for CBS. He was the White House correspondent talking about the boos that Bush got in 2005.

ROBERTS: At a couple of points in this address it looked more like the British parliament than the United States Congress. I've never heard the minority party shout at the president during the State of the Union address.

RUSH: Yeah, never heard it, and who did it? It was the Democrats and it wasn't just one voice it was a whole bunch of them. See when they're in power anything goes and we're not to tread it. They have the floor and nobody else does and that's it. Now, this next bite is when the speech started to go -- well, I think it started to go south from the moment it started, first lie about the economy "we're back from the brink," foreclosures at an all-time high, teen unemployment at an all-time high since records have been kept, 560,000 more jobs lost. I mean it's breathtaking. But listen, this is when it finally dawned on people that they had to do something in response to the lies.

OBAMA: Improving our health care system only works if everybody does their part. And while there remain some significant details to be ironed out -- (laughter) I believe (laughter) -- I believe a broad consensus exists for the aspects of the plan I just outlined.

RUSH: He doesn't have a plan, he hasn't presented a plan and what he claimed last night cannot be found in any plan in the House or the Senate. He still didn't produce a plan.


BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: Okay, we're back. Rush Limbaugh, the EIB Network and talent on loan from God. This morning on Capitol Hill, Joe Wilson (Republican, South Carolina) spoke to the press.

WILSON: I've heard from the leadership that they wanted me to contact the White House and say that my statements were inappropriate. I did. I'm very grateful that the White House, in talking with them, they indicated that they appreciated the call and that we needed to have a civil discussion about the health care issues, and I certainly agree with that. And so I'm happy to discuss the health care issues and in particular on the issue which I think is very important, of whether the bills would include illegal aliens or not.

RUSH: All right, so the Republican leadership asked him to call the White House and apologize. That should tell you something. But he stuck to his guns on Obama's lie on illegal immigrants.

WILSON: There were two different amendments on the bill which would have provided for verification of persons having citizenship. They were almost party-line votes. On one of the amendments several Democrats actually voted with us. Also, the Congressional Resource Services has indicated that indeed the bills that are before Congress would include illegal aliens. And I think this is wrong. We need to be discussing issues specifically to help the American people, and that would not include illegal aliens.

RUSH: So he's sticking to his guns. He said the truth. Here's the thing that's amazing about this. Here you have a president lying through his teeth from the start of that speech through the end of that speech -- and in this speech he's accusing conservatives of lying about his plan, a plan which does not exist! He wasn't even grounded in reality last night. There is not one piece of legislation that has anything remotely like what Obama said was in his plan. He's not going to submit a plan. The only workable plan right now is the House plan, and nothing that he said is in it. The House bill contradicts everything Obama claimed last night! So while he is in the midst of lying about his plan, he is at the same time falsely accusing us of lying about it. So the question is: Why is it okay for Obama, as president of the United States, in a legislative setting to come out here and lie through his teeth and somehow it's bad form for Joe Wilson to tell the truth in the same setting? Because the fact of the matter is Obama was lying. What Joe Wilson said was true. They were harping today on the truth-teller. It ought to be the other way around.

Fraggle145
9/10/2009, 06:49 PM
im suprised it hasn't already been posted....where is the kevin wilson Vs. Barack bin laden post?

It was just in a different thread :D

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2697966&postcount=95


http://blog.newsweek.com/photos/thegaggle/images/1127991/original.aspx

YOU LIE!!!

Heh. ;)

http://patdollard.com/wp-content/uploads/dd_pelosi4739mac.jpg

j/k I'd probably hit it...

Okla-homey
9/10/2009, 07:12 PM
No. The bill in the house does not allow for health care for illegals. Joe Wilson was completely wrong.

Not that that's surprising.

Let me axe you a question. Or two.

When a person presents for acute care at a hospital, does anyone ask to see their citizenship card? Of course they don't. First off, there's no such thing as a citizenship card. And even if there were, health care providers, per federal law, cannot ask anything at all regarding "who's paying for this?" or "WTF are you?" until the patient is assessed and made stable. Thereafter, even if it turns out the patient just arrived from Guatemala having stowed away in a banana boat -- again per federal law; the hospital can't "dump" the patient if he needs to remain hospitalized.

More directly, there is about $6B in BHO's plan, at least in its current iteration, to bankroll this gubmint "pool" for the broke uninsured and/or uninsurable. There isn't a scintilla of policy in said bill requiring, nay even allowing an immigration status review prior to inviting said unfortunate into the pool.

Now, where I come from, that means BHO lied last night. And you know what, the truth is the ultimate defense to charges of slander or libel.

49r
9/10/2009, 07:31 PM
Isn't it all semantics anyway? I mean - and correct me if I'm wrong - currently insurance companies do not provide health care coverage for illegals right? A government backed public health care option would not cover illegals either. Yet, if an illegal alien goes to the emergency room in either scenario he or she will be given treatment.

So, for the life of me it seems like this whole thing is a red herring, nothing is going to change at all in that regard. Much ado about nothing. This whole issue is just a political football used to distract the public from the issue at hand. Par for the course.

Even though the tactic is reprehensible, it is neither new nor illegal so it's a card that gets played from both sides of the aisle time and again. Every second discussing this non issue is one more second that the tactic has been successful.

Cheap, dirty, underhanded, in bad taste, perhaps even immoral...but nonetheless, successful.

49r
9/10/2009, 07:33 PM
Then again that's just my opinion. I may be wrong. Frankly, either way it really isn't going to amount to a hill of beans and is still a red herring.

Scott D
9/10/2009, 08:34 PM
I must respectfully ask that people stop using Rush transcripts. They are erroneous in the fact that they never include his snorting and wheezing which would double the size of said transcripts.

Scott D
9/10/2009, 08:35 PM
I know but who pays? do the hospitals right it off and just make it up on the backs of those who are covered, do the states pay for it, do the feds pay for it.

Bottom line we pay for it.

When my nephew was born my sister did not have insurance. he was 2 months early and had to stay in the hospital for almost a month. When my BIL started getting the bills , he went to the hospital administrator and was going to try and work up a payment plan.

not only did they work out a payment plan they reduced the entire bill by about 40%.

How can they do that?

I believe nowadays they are building in collection costs when the bill first gets made.

TheHumanAlphabet
9/10/2009, 09:38 PM
No. The bill in the house does not allow for health care for illegals. Joe Wilson was completely wrong.

Not that that's surprising.

No he wasn't, Obama has been lying since day one. Illegals have to be served at the hospital, how would you expect them to not get government health.

oulucas
9/10/2009, 09:55 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090910/ap_on_go_co/us_illegal_immigrants_fact_check

This source indicates Wilson was incorrect. I'm not saying I totally believe it (hardly know what to believe any more) but thought I'd throw it out there. My apologies if I didn't post it correctly.

delhalew
9/10/2009, 11:06 PM
However, Wilson is far from alone in thinking that the prohibition in the House bill doesn't go far enough. For him and other Republicans, the problem is not what's in the bill, it's what the bill leaves out. There's no provision for how the prohibition would be enforced, or any requirement for people to prove they are citizens or legal residents before getting health care benefits. In fact, Democrats on the Energy and Commerce and Ways and Means committees defeated Republican-offered amendments that would have required people to verify their legal status before getting care, with some Democrats saying such requirements would be unnecessarily burdensome for people legally entitled to coverage. Wilson cited the defeat of those two amendments Thursday when he discussed his outburst with reporters.
This is the sticking point.

sooner KB
9/10/2009, 11:14 PM
Yes, because even if he wanted to prohibit illegals from taking part in this, it's not a priority of the legislature due to the high percentage of liberals in the House.


You are saying it's not a priority of the legislature, even though section 246 of the bill states that illegal immigrants are prohibited from receiving insurance? Explain this.


Because they'll be made legal. A half-truth is still a lie, and Obama's been telling them from the beginning.


I'll put aside the fact that Obama has never said he will provide amnesty for illegal immigrants, which makes the entire argument a conspiracy theory.

How is this even relevent? The entire discussion is about the healthcare bill, and whether or not the government-ran insurance will be provided to illegal immigrants or not. So since that is the topic of discussion, what would you change about the bill in regards to illegal immigrants?


But, but, if an illegal enters a hospital emergency room for treatment, and he can not pay cash, who will pay for it?

But that's the way it already is. Are we debating the healthcare bill or not? And are you seriously arguing that any illegal immigrant that is about to die should be told to go die outside on the sidewalk? I mean I hate the fact that illegal immigrants are a financial burden on us since they don't pay taxes, but does that really mean they deserve to die? I don't see how anyone can take that position and claim that he or she follows the principles of Christianity and the bible.

Also, I was under the impression that this thread was about if Obama lied or not. Lets take a look at the quote by Obama:

"There are also those who claim that our reform effort will insure illegal immigrants. This, too, is false — the reforms I’m proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally."

The claim is that illegal immigrants will not be insured under the plan. That is 100% truth. He did not say that they will not be able to receive emergency care.

SanJoaquinSooner
9/10/2009, 11:39 PM
Isn't it all semantics anyway? I mean - and correct me if I'm wrong - currently insurance companies do not provide health care coverage for illegals right? A government backed public health care option would not cover illegals either. Yet, if an illegal alien goes to the emergency room in either scenario he or she will be given treatment..

yes and no. first, many workers who are illegally present have health insurance through their employer. Of course the insurance co. doesn't know they are illegal, because fraudulent documents were used to gain employment. About 2/3 of employed illegals are on legit payrolls with FICA, etc deducted. IF the employer has health insurance benefits, then the employee gets it - illegal or not.

But you are right, health insurance is not the same thing as health care. everybody has a certain level of access to health care now. not everybody has insurance.

Fraggle145
9/10/2009, 11:42 PM
This is the sticking point.

I just want to know how you are going to make the guy who is passed out, or has his guts hanging out, or any of that stuff to verify his legality.

SCOUT
9/11/2009, 12:30 AM
I just want to know how you are going to make the guy who is passed out, or has his guts hanging out, or any of that stuff to verify his legality.

Why do immigration law breakers get treated differently from any other law breakers? If you flea the police and have one of those cool highway chase scenes, end in a crash and need emergency medical treatment, you get it. Once you have been treated though, your crimes get addressed.

Stitch 'em up, make sure they are well enough to travel and send them to the country where they are legal citizens.

Soonerfan88
9/11/2009, 12:35 AM
To me, it's another one of those "definition of is" word games that ALL politicians pull.

The current plans in the House specifically state that illegals are not eligible for any of the federal subsidies or tax credits. However there is no requirement for any certification of status and congressional committees adamantly rejected two amendments that required those applying for the federal subsidies to be verified as citizens or legal residents. BUT illegals are more than welcome to purchase any insurance they want, including the public option.

To me, there is wiggle room for both sides to be correct on this one.

SanJoaquinSooner
9/11/2009, 12:38 AM
RUSH: [Obama's claim is] simply not true. It will cover undocumented aliens. Now, it may not specifically say so in the bill. But we have to know that what's coming is amnesty. They're going to be made legal. We're going to have all of this. If Obama gets his way we're going to legalize 12 to 20 million illegals, and they're going to become citizens and they're going to get coverage. And they're, at the end of the day, going to still be illegal regardless of the law and amnesty and everything else.



Rush must have taken an extra large dose of Oxycontin


http://henpantha.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/rush-limbaugh-oxycontin.jpg

Rush's conclusion is recockulous. He fails to understand that if they become legally present, they are no longer illegally present.

On my 16th birthday, I walked into the DMV not able to legally drive. An hour or so later, I walked out as a legal driver. Sh*t like this happens all the time.

Petro-Sooner
9/11/2009, 12:40 AM
:rolleyes:

MrJimBeam
9/11/2009, 07:02 AM
I'm not sure what's more embarrassing--the right wing continuing to humiliate itself, or the zealots that seem to revel in this role.

Yeah, what's really embarrassing is that with all this humiliation going on they are still winning the arguments.

TheHumanAlphabet
9/11/2009, 08:22 AM
:rolleyes:

TheHumanAlphabet
9/11/2009, 08:30 AM
Until Brack endorses and supports medical tort reform, I will not support any health care reform. Brack could pay for his changes with this one item.


Tort reform is a policy no-brainer. Experts on left and right agree that defensive medicine—ordering tests and procedures solely to protect against Joe Lawyer—adds enormously to health costs. The estimated dollar benefits of reform range from a conservative $65 billion a year to perhaps $200 billion. In context, Mr. Obama's plan would cost about $100 billion annually. That the president won't embrace even modest change that would do so much, so quickly, to lower costs, has left Americans suspicious of his real ambitions.


Kindly used from sooner-n-houston's thread.

Until then, this is just Nationalizing a major aspect of our economy.

My Opinion Matters
9/11/2009, 08:37 AM
Yeah, what's really embarrassing is that with all this humiliation going on they are still winning the arguments.

Winning the arguments? WTF does that even mean?

MrJimBeam
9/11/2009, 08:50 AM
Winning the arguments? WTF does that even mean?

Winning the debate.

It means 52% of US Americans are now skeptical of the Presidents health care proposals.

Maybe this happened in spite of the embarrassing Right-Wing.

TheHumanAlphabet
9/11/2009, 10:22 AM
The Left-wing, Progressives and socialists are embarrassing.

52% of Americans can't be wrong...

Scott D
9/11/2009, 01:38 PM
nobody really wins a political argument, everyone is just dumber for having participated.

Pricetag
9/11/2009, 02:09 PM
What Wilson did was incredibly bush league. He's an embarrassment to his country, his party, and his constituents. The fact that he's apologized while also bravely announcing that he won't be muzzled is pathetic.

I also think all the standing ovations by the democrats, as well as the grimly determined non-ovations by the republicans, are weak. It's nothing but masturbation. All this stuff is too important for people to be acting like that. We need to fire all of them.

47straight
9/11/2009, 02:29 PM
The outrage of Wilson is laughable. He definitely acted like a jerk, but to spend any more effort than to acknowlege that, is silly. I had someone actually try to explain how there was a huge difference between booing (as has happened in the past many times) and what Wilson did. Oh man. Obama, I can agree or disagree with. His followers... the cult of personality never has a good outcome.

Pricetag
9/11/2009, 02:50 PM
The outrage of Wilson is laughable. He definitely acted like a jerk, but to spend any more effort than to acknowlege that, is silly. I had someone actually try to explain how there was a huge difference between booing (as has happened in the past many times) and what Wilson did. Oh man. Obama, I can agree or disagree with. His followers... the cult of personality never has a good outcome.
My beef with it is that he didn't even legitimately act like a jerk. He didn't "let his emotions get away from him." That's what a normal person would do. It was a deliberate political tactic (same as the democrats booing, the standing ovations, and all that). He knew when he did it that fanboys would be stroking themselves over it, and he loves it. In the aftermath, he's trying to score bonus points by adopting the "not gonna take it" attitude. Again, these are real problems, and these fools don't have time to be acting like that.

OklahomaTuba
9/11/2009, 03:16 PM
Again, these are real problems, and these fools don't have time to be acting like that.And throwing billions at people who are not citizens of this country and do not pay taxes isn't a problem to you????

I for one am very glad he spoke out, as thats the only way to get any results it seems in protecting American's from theft.


Baucus, Conrad Cave To Joe Wilson On Health Care Bill

Health care negotiators in the Senate pressed for a way to ensure that illegal immigrants can't get access to government-funded insurance, a contentious issue now front and center after a Republican congressman's outburst during President Barack Obama's speech.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/11/baucus-conrad-cave-to-joe_n_283246.html

Pricetag
9/11/2009, 03:21 PM
I think they ought to verify citezenship after giving treatment. Hold them until they reveal where it is they're working, and then let them pay the bill.

OklahomaTuba
9/11/2009, 03:26 PM
I think they ought to verify citezenship after giving treatment. Hold them until they reveal where it is they're working, and then let them pay the bill.

And if they can't, then what???

Oh yeah, we pay and they don't.


GREAT PLAN! :rolleyes:

OklahomaTuba
9/11/2009, 03:29 PM
And this isn't about TREATMENT, this is about insurance coverage. A hospital would never deny treatment to someone. So that is a moot issue anyway.

TMcGee86
9/11/2009, 04:20 PM
I really can't believe anyone is really mad over this.

It was a bull**** speech anyway. Obama only called it so he could stroke his ego in front of the masses.

I'm actually glad someone finally had the balls to stand up to all of this pomp that our government has become.

85Sooner
9/11/2009, 04:29 PM
Lets wait and see. If they cram the bill through and Illegals are aboe to see one cent of the money then Mr. Wilson was Correct and the President indeed did lie. If they don't, then Mr Wilson can apologize. Anyone want want to make a bet on which way it will go?

SanJoaquinSooner
9/11/2009, 05:52 PM
Lets wait and see. If they cram the bill through and Illegals are aboe to see one cent of the money then Mr. Wilson was Correct and the President indeed did lie. If they don't, then Mr Wilson can apologize. Anyone want want to make a bet on which way it will go?

I'm not sure that's a realistic standard. take defense appropriations. If we withheld funding if one cent went to illegals then defense would not be funded.

I Am Right
9/11/2009, 06:36 PM
Just don't get old!

I Am Right
9/11/2009, 06:38 PM
When it comes to the health care debate, there is simply no way that both sides can be right. Someone may very well be lying and it's up to the American people to figure out who is doing it -- Republicans or Democrats.


print Email share recommend (6)
The only thing worse than yelling "you lie" at the president of the United States is not standing by your remark and apologizing for it later under pressure.

I may be a minority in this country, but I detest fake civility here. I loved the good old days when politicians called each other liars, before they discovered weasel words like "prevaricating" and "misrepresenting the truth."

That's why it's baffling that Representative Joe Wilson would later back down after calling President Obama a liar. What's the big deal? After all, the president had, just moments earlier, accused (without naming her) Sarah Palin of lying and Wilson, in a moment of passionate chivalry (ill-timed perhaps) responded in kind.

When it comes to the health care debate, there is simply no way that both sides can be right with their wildly differing projections of how reforms will affect patients and how it will all be paid for. Someone may very well be lying and it's up to the American people to figure out which side is doing it, Republicans or Democrats.

On Wednesday night, President Obama called Sarah Palin and, by inference, his critics, liars. Joe Wilson, called the president, and by inference, his supporters, liars. One of them is probably right.

Mark Joseph is a producer and author. He is the editor of Bullypulpit.com.

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jdsooner
9/12/2009, 12:14 AM
So when does Obama apologize to Palin for calling her a liar in a join session of congress?????

Was very Presidential if I say so myself. And by Presidential I really mean bitter, angry and immature.

He didn't call Palin a liar. He said it was a lie that a panel of government bureaucrats would decide if people live or die. If you really believe that this would happen, then you probably still believe in the tooth fairy and the Easter Bunny.

Okla-homey
9/12/2009, 08:26 AM
Last night (Friday), the WH put out talking points on the House bill. NBC posted the following on it's site regarding same. Bottomline is, Joe Wilson was right. BHO and Nancy Pelosi owe him an apology.


Today, for the first time as far as we know, the administration is backing a provision that would require proof of citizenship before someone could enroll in a plan selected on the exchange.

Here, the administration also concedes that hospitals would be compensated with public funds for the care of undocumented immigrants.

The bullet points sent tonight by the White House:

Undocumented immigrants would not be able to buy private insurance on the exchange. Those who are lawfully present in this country would be able to participate.

Undocumented immigrants would be able to buy insurance in the non-exchange private market, just as they do today. That market will shrink as the exchange takes hold, but it will still exist and will be subject to reforms such as the bans on pre-existing conditions and caps.

Verification will be required when purchasing health insurance on the exchange. One option is the SAVE program (Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements) which states currently use to make sure that undocumented immigrants don't participate in safety-net programs for which they are ineligible.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/09/11/2065287.aspx

KABOOKIE
9/12/2009, 09:08 AM
He didn't call Palin a liar. He said it was a lie that a panel of government bureaucrats would decide if people live or die. If you really believe that this would happen, then you probably still believe in the tooth fairy and the Easter Bunny.

I remember the dems taking that part out of the plan after Palin brought it up...

I Am Right
9/12/2009, 11:33 AM
Typical socialist operation--- Kill the Messenger, KILL, KILL. Form over substance.

47straight
9/12/2009, 05:08 PM
He didn't call Palin a liar. He said it was a lie that a panel of government bureaucrats would decide if people live or die. If you really believe that this would happen, then you probably still believe in the tooth fairy and the Easter Bunny.


It was totally different. When Wilson did it, his hands went like *this.* When Obama did it, his hands went like *this.*

Wasn't that a Sonic commercial?

I Am Right
10/6/2009, 06:17 PM
I would have liked to have heard one of the IOC members to yell out "liar" during Obamas spiel

I Am Right
10/27/2009, 06:27 PM
Rep. Bart Stupak said Speaker Pelosi is not pleased with his effort to change abortion-related provisions in the healthcare bill being crafted by the House.

During an interview on C-SPAN's "Washington Journal" show, Stupak (D-Mich.) said he is undeterred in trying to ensure that taxpayer dollars do not pay for abortions. Stupak, who opposes abortion rights, acknowledged that some in his party are upset with his public campaign to change the bill.



"The Speaker is not happy with me," Stupak said.

The Energy and Commerce subcommittee chairman said he has been working with Democratic leaders on a compromise, but they haven't been able to strike a deal. Stupak pointed out that he and Democratic leaders have a fundamental disagreement on whether health plans that receive subsidies from the government should be allowed to provide coverage options on abortions.

Stupak wants a vote on the House floor to strike the language, and predicts he would have the votes to pass such an amendment.

"This has been federal law since 1976," he said, noting that President Barack Obama has vowed not to allow healthcare reform to pay for abortions.

"We have to have a vote," he said.

If he doesn't get one, Stupak said he and as many as 39 other Democrats will vote no on a procedural motion to bring the health bill to the floor. A House vote on healthcare reform could be taken next week.

Stupak stressed he wants to vote for healthcare reform and is "still somewhat optimistic" that he will reach an accord with Democratic leaders.

However, the Michigan Democrat said he will not be backing down: "I'm comfortable with where I'm at. This is who I am. It's reflective of my district. If it costs me my seat, so be it."

A portion of the interview can be accessed here.The entire interview can be seen here.

OklahomaTuba
10/28/2009, 11:21 AM
If the libz pass this **** sandwich, it will be political suicide.


Study: ObamaCare Would Double or Triple Premiums for Most

Take Ohio, where a young, healthy 25-year-old living in Columbus can purchase insurance from WellPoint today for about $52 per month in the individual market. WellPoint's actuaries calculate the bill will rise to $79 because Democrats are going to require it to issue policies to anyone who applies, even if they've waited until they're sick to buy insurance. Then they'll also require the company to charge everyone nearly the same rate, bringing the premium to $134. Add in an extra $17, since Democrats will require higher benefit levels, and a share of the new health industry taxes ($6), and monthly premiums have risen to $157, a 199% boost.
Meanwhile, a 40-year-old husband and wife with two kids would see their premiums jump by 122%—to $737 from $332—while a small business with eight employees in Franklin County would see premiums climb by 86%. It's true that the family or the individual might qualify for subsidies if their incomes are low enough, but the business wouldn't qualify under the Senate Finance bill WellPoint examined. And even if there are subsidies, the new costs the bill creates don't vaporize. They're merely transferred to taxpayers nationwide—or financed with deficits, which will be financed eventually with higher taxes.

...

A family of four with average health in those same cities would all face cost increases of 122% buying insurance on the individual market. And it's important to understand that these are merely the new costs created by ObamaCare—not including the natural increases in medical costs over time from new therapies and the like.http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703567204574499034177212064.html?m od=rss_opinion_main

StoopTroup
10/28/2009, 01:07 PM
If the Libs commit political suicide...will Nader finally get his shot?

I Am Right
10/28/2009, 05:21 PM
If the Libs commit political suicide...will Nader finally get his shot?

Yes and Franks will be the Veep

49r
10/29/2009, 09:28 AM
If the libz pass this **** sandwich, it will be political suicide.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703567204574499034177212064.html?m od=rss_opinion_main


So...


I guess that means you're all for it then? :confused:

StoopTroup
10/29/2009, 10:06 AM
Yes and Franks will be the Veep

Will they be able to beat....

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gWCkPg2UgNs/SRDXXWG7t-I/AAAAAAAAAdo/qFideSVahic/s400/PalinPlumber.jpg

49r
10/29/2009, 12:13 PM
If the libz pass this **** sandwich, it will be political suicide.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703567204574499034177212064.html?m od=rss_opinion_main

You'd probably prefer political Seppuku...in fact that may be a much more appropriate term...just sayin'

OklahomaTuba
10/29/2009, 01:57 PM
So...I guess that means you're all for it then? :confused:Not at all. I'd rather the libz actually reform healthcare instead of ****ing it up even more.

LosAngelesSooner
10/29/2009, 04:33 PM
Typical neo-con operation--- Kill the Messenger, KILL, KILL. Form over substance.Those "Swift Boat" ads and "John McCain's secret baby ads" worked out pretty good for ya, didn't they? :rolleyes:

LosAngelesSooner
10/29/2009, 04:36 PM
Not at all. I'd rather the libz actually reform healthcare instead of ****ing it up even more.

"… the Constitution allows for many things, but what it does not allow is the most revealing. The so-called Founders did not allow for economic freedom. While political freedom is supposedly a cornerstone of the document, the distribution of wealth is not even mentioned. While many believed that the new Constitution gave them liberty, it instead fitted them with the shackles of hypocrisy."

-Barack H. Obama
Still clinging to this already completely disproved bit of disinformation, eh Tuba?

Oh...and I'm not talking about your sig, ya big liar. ;)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/23/fake-obama-thesis-story-g_n_332255.html

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2009/10/23/obama_thesis/index.html

http://jumpinginpools.blogspot.com/2009/08/obama-college-thesis-constitution-is.html

http://deepbackground.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/07/24/1219454.aspx

http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/10/23/nonsense-2/#ixzz0UnScZTN9

http://pajamasmedia.com/michaelledeen/2009/10/23/the-obama-thesis-hoax/

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200910230019

I Am Right
10/29/2009, 05:48 PM
Those "Swift Boat" ads and "John McCain's secret baby ads" worked out pretty good for ya, didn't they? :rolleyes:

Dang, Swift Boat that were true and Secret Baby Ads that were not?

SCOUT
10/29/2009, 05:56 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/23/fake-obama-thesis-story-g_n_332255.html

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2009/10/23/obama_thesis/index.html

http://jumpinginpools.blogspot.com/2009/08/obama-college-thesis-constitution-is.html

http://deepbackground.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/07/24/1219454.aspx

http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/10/23/nonsense-2/#ixzz0UnScZTN9

http://pajamasmedia.com/michaelledeen/2009/10/23/the-obama-thesis-hoax/

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200910230019

Was your point to show all of the weird blogs and sites that you read?

The huffington post, jumpinginpools, swampland, pajamasmedia, mediamatters??? Seriously??

LosAngelesSooner
10/29/2009, 06:04 PM
Yeah...they were "true." :rolleyes: You got it, Trolly McTrollerson.

LosAngelesSooner
10/29/2009, 06:05 PM
Was your point to show all of the weird blogs and sites that you read?

The huffington post, jumpinginpools, swampland, pajamasmedia, mediamatters??? Seriously??
That was six seconds worth of Google to show a sampling of the articles about how that quote was complete Bull****.

And if those blogs are hack jobs...how sad is it that THEY can get their facts straight while Rush Limbaugh and Tuba can't?

LOL

StoopTroup
10/29/2009, 06:17 PM
I only read some of the weird **** that pops up on my internet screen. The really good stuff...I post just to see if anyone will comment on it. If it's a good comment...I go back and read through it.

Many of you are very good at sorting stuff out.








;)