This is a championship caliber defense

[OU_PhD]

in my opinion and they will keep OU in every game no matter how the offense is playing (see Exhibit A OU vs BYU).

The offensive line will only get better and Coach Stoops will turn this into a championship squad. This is a setback but just part of the journey.

I have faith in Coach Stoops and the rest of the staff.

[Soonerus]

You have it exactly right !!!

[Hotrod3157]

I hope the defense steps up and keeps all the opponents to 17 or less. That will be tough to do but if the O-Line doesn't gel some we will need them every week to keep us in the games.

[GottaHavePride]

I would've liked to see a few less missed tackles from them, though.

Can we get Rocky Calmus in as a linebackers coach?

[Soonerus]

I would've liked to see a few less missed tackles from them, though.

Can we get Rocky Calmus in as a linebackers coach?

GHP, this is a really good defense and you know it...the D will help us turn the season around after freakish first loss...

[CK Sooner]

Special Teams was a lot better also. Stoops said that Matt Moreland had gotten better, but I couldn't tell. I was watching the OSU game and their kicker was blasting it out of the endzone...

[JLEW1818]

WRs worry me too... we really need Gresham back, he takes alway blitz and coverages

[Soonerus]

BYU's kicker could barely make the 15 yard line...

[OU_PhD]

Just think what this defense will be like when they have a sub package for Reynolds and the offense can sustain a drive for more than a few first downs or *gasp* actually have a scoring drive.

By the end of the season we will see that the people who bashed the coaches were fools.

[Soonerus]

Gresham will be back at Miami, trust me...

[o0Dan0o]

I have to agree. If we had just a bit more production from the offense against BYU, BYU may never have gotten the chance to finish that 8 minute drive for their second touchdown.

I see the defense getting better, namely against the intermediate passing game, and if, with time, the o-line gets better we should be able to pull out wins in most of the games this year. BYU's offense is better than a good portion of big 12 offenses.
Dan

[JLEW1818]

have not even looked at the scorecard much. what conference were the refs?

[OUAlumni1990]

have not even looked at the scorecard much. what conference were the refs?

it doesn't matter, the refs sucked :D

[Desert Sapper]

I hope to see this O-Line turn things around. This was their first game together as a unit.

I also want to see the DLine get a lot more pressure (was the BYU O-Line THAT good?) and I want to see less blown coverage in the secondary. There is really no excuse for the two BYU TDs.

[Curly Bill]

Championship caliber defense...

...LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Wait...did Mike come back? Thought maybe I missed something. ;)

[Curly Bill]

have not even looked at the scorecard much. what conference were the refs?

TV said they were Big 12.

[JLEW1818]

did we get screwed on any calls? couldn't really tell

[Curly Bill]

did we get screwed on any calls? couldn't really tell

Not really. Not gonna say they didn't miss any, because there are missed calls every game, but we didn't get cheated by the officials.

[rhombic21]

Why is it that you guys think that we're suddenly going to figure out how to stop the intermediate passing game? That's pretty much been our weakness for the last 3-4 years. That's how Texas beat us last year.

BYU very easily could have scored 28 or more points in the game last night. The D came up with some big plays, but there were way too many breakdowns, against a team that was breaking in an offensive line that was just as inexperienced/banged up as ours, and playing without their starting tailback, to be calling it championship caliber.

BYU doesn't have anywhere near the athletes on offense at the skill positions that we're going to play against when we get to October.

[LawtonBoy74]

The only call that the refs really screwed us on was when Jarvis Jones blocked a guy through the whistle and they gave him an unnecessary roughness penalty because he absolutely pancaked the guy!!

[LawtonBoy74]

Looking at the game again if you take out all the penalties and miscues of the offense..WE ARE A DAMN GOOD FOOTBALL TEAM!!! I'm excited about this year!!

[Curly Bill]

Looking at the game again if you take out all the penalties and miscues of the offense..WE ARE A DAMN GOOD FOOTBALL TEAM!!! I'm excited about this year!!

Have you said that enough to believe it yet?

Cause I'm not buying it. :D

[Hotrod3157]

The only call that the refs really screwed us on was when Jarvis Jones blocked a guy through the whistle and they gave him an unnecessary roughness penalty because he absolutely pancaked the guy!!

Yep that was a bad call whistle was just blowing and the runner was behind him so he was finishing his block like he should.

[MacPhatDaddy]

The defense needs to figure out how to play in the 4th quarter. I don't know if they are tired, lack depth, lack coaching or if it is something else but two games in a row the defense has disappeared at critical moments in the 4th. That's no way to win a championship.

[OUAlumni1990]

It's that last drive or 2 that they seem to run out of gas. It was that way last year too.

[Crucifax Autumn]

So it's conditioning? Fire up the fire Scmitty thread! lmao

[OUAlumni1990]

So it's conditioning? Fire up the fire Scmitty thread! lmao

They just need to load up on Monster energy drink. I had 2 on my way home. I about kicked a hole in my truck when I got out!

[Crucifax Autumn]

Yep...That's why I start every game with one of those 24 oz. energy beers.

[josh09]

yea defense is supposed to win damn championships, but not when an offense who scored the most points in NCAA history just a year ago cant even break 2 touchdowns in a game.

[olevetonahill]

MHO
Our D was tired .
They were on the Field fer 37 Minutes :mad:
They should have and Could have been on for Far less
If our O Line had Not made so many penalties .
Give Me A D that spends that Much time On the Field and ONLY gives up 14.
Ill take em every Game :D :rolleyes:

[olevetonahill]

yea defense is supposed to win damn championships, but not when an offense who scored the most points in NCAA history just a year ago cant even break 2 touchdowns in a game.

Our O could have , Had Sam not been taken out .
I dont want to call names . But Yall saw who Missed the Blocks and got the Penalties ( Hint # 70 )
I believe he will get his arse worked off this week and Be a great O line man this Sat.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I hope that's true. If not they need to let someone else play.

[bonkuba]

Defend the crossing patterns that killed us each and every time (for a few years now).....then I am with ya. This offense did not have half of what our defense will see later this year. I am not bashing it's just true and is getting old IMHO.

We seem to be getting out coached and I cannot for the life of me understand why. I don't want to change coaches or anything.....just don't be stubborn and change/fix a few areas and we are good :-)

Now back to my broke ankle.....this weekend just kept getting better and better.......haha!!:-)

[olevetonahill]

Defend the crossing patterns that killed us each and every time (for a few years now).....then I am with ya. This offense did not have half of what our defense will see later this year. I am not bashing it's just true and is getting old IMHO.

We seem to be getting out coached and I cannot for the life of me understand why. I don't want to change coaches or anything.....just don't be stubborn and change/fix a few areas and we are good :-)

Now back to my broke ankle.....this weekend just kept getting better and better.......haha!!:-)

Least it wasnt Broke Back :D :D

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I just watched the DETROIT LIONS punch in a ball at the one yard line!!!!!! Now I am ****ing pissed!!!

[stoopified]

One game is not enough to judge by IMHO. No more than those that think OUr offense will completely suck this year with only one game played.FWIW I do thinkt his D can be good BUT could be hung out to dry IF the offense sputters like it did last night.The offense SHOULD be better because now Landry is being prepared to play and not being thrown in the fire of a tight game coming off the bench.

Bootom line on both sides of the ball,it is too early to tell.

[StoopTroup]

bYu really ran the clock on that last series. They owned the 4th qtr. That's our job. Stoops must address this IMO. We almost had them shut down numerous times. That series is tough to watch.

The beginning of the game..was bad. The waiting for 8 months to see the refs control the flow of the game almost makes you puke. But...you have to overcome those things both as a fan and a Team.

[meoveryouxinfinity]

I'm not in the mood for sunshine....just yet...

But this BYU Offensive line was supposed to be just as bad or worse than ours.

And it's not like we all out dominated them. They got theirs.

[soonervegas]

Is a championship defense based on points given up or being able to stop the opponent when the game is on the line?

Based on option 2 this defense is 0 for 3 over thet past 16 months.

Our best bet for 2009 is the Offense to get back on track over the next few weeks.

[cvsooner]

What this game reminded me of was the Iowa State game two years ago. Offense couldn't get its act together and Iowa State was playing really well. And that was with the 'best offensive line in America,' or so we were told last year. The big knock on Loadholt was all the false start penalties.

Biggest difference here was BYU has better athletes than Iowa State and we were patched together on the o-line, the receiver corps and at QB. Not a recipe for success. That bit us in the Fiesta Bowl against WVU, only their athletes were WAY better than BYU.

Probably the most amazing thing Saturday is that we only lost by one and nearly won it.

[spatton713]

Championship caliber rush defense! no way you can call the whole unit championship caliber after 300 some odd passing yards, countless 3rd down conversions, couple of 4th down conversions, total 4th quarter ball control, watching D Franks get turned around several times (and i really thought he was a lock down corner only to be better this year) that last touchdown can anyone tell whose fault that was?? either franks or proctor? why do we always seem to let someone get behind us? isnt that db 101? we have several stud athletes they just gotta get it together along with a differnent game plan or something cuz we just cant get it done when it counts really dont understand... Gerald McCoy was a beast best player on the field and Travis Lewis picked up where he left off.....quick note on the offense(and D ie: rr vs texas last year) seems to me like if we lose a key player in game or prior to they cant adjust the gameplan accordingly....gresham before our offense looked horrid in the first half...2nd half after bradford looked even worse.......and the real *** kicker murray in the title game haha

[mehip]

in my opinion and they will keep OU in every game no matter how the offense is playing (see Exhibit A OU vs BYU).


I will agree the moment they start getting off the field on 3rd down consistently against good competition. Overall, I think the pieces are there but, we have been soft in the middle on 3rd downs for too many years.

[A-M]

I hope to see this O-Line turn things around. This was their first game together as a unit.

I also want to see the DLine get a lot more pressure (was the BYU O-Line THAT good?) and I want to see less blown coverage in the secondary. There is really no excuse for the two BYU TDs.

^^^^^^^^!

[OU_PhD]

I will agree the moment they start getting off the field on 3rd down consistently against good competition. Overall, I think the pieces are there but, we have been soft in the middle on 3rd downs for too many years.

I think everyone would have a stronger opinion about the defense had the offense been able to capitalize on the turnovers instead of going three and out or settling for field goals. They need a sub-package for Reynolds for obvious passing downs and Dom Franks needs to put in more effort but with time they will get much better. BYU dominated TOP and any defense would be gassed by the end of the game.

[josh09]

Our O could have , Had Sam not been taken out .
I dont want to call names . But Yall saw who Missed the Blocks and got the Penalties ( Hint # 70 )
I believe he will get his arse worked off this week and Be a great O line man this Sat.

Every time I try to tell someone the same thing, they just say "Well even with Sam yall only had 7 points!", but what you're saying IS true. We would drive down to the red zone with Sam, be ready to score a TD, and commit a stupid penalty or fumble it. Very frustrating stuff.

[josh09]

Championship caliber rush defense! no way you can call the whole unit championship caliber after 300 some odd passing yards, countless 3rd down conversions, couple of 4th down conversions, total 4th quarter ball control, watching D Franks get turned around several times (and i really thought he was a lock down corner only to be better this year) that last touchdown can anyone tell whose fault that was?? either franks or proctor? why do we always seem to let someone get behind us? isnt that db 101? we have several stud athletes they just gotta get it together along with a differnent game plan or something cuz we just cant get it done when it counts really dont understand... Gerald McCoy was a beast best player on the field and Travis Lewis picked up where he left off.....quick note on the offense(and D ie: rr vs texas last year) seems to me like if we lose a key player in game or prior to they cant adjust the gameplan accordingly....gresham before our offense looked horrid in the first half...2nd half after bradford looked even worse.......and the real *** kicker murray in the title game haha

We held them to 14 points first of all, and second of all I think you're just looking at their winning drive when our D was absolutely exhausted. Our O kept getting damn 3 and outs, putting our D in terrible field position and not giving them any time at all to rest, and that last drive from them was bound to happen eventually with the amount of time our D stayed on the field. I think our D played brilliantly.

[wishbonesooner]

If this had been the first time our D had allowed a team to drive the length of the field, at crunch time, it would be different. Oregon did it, texas did it last year. Florida put us away with a drive where we just could not stop a team on 3rd down.

[Curly Bill]

If this had been the first time our D had allowed a team to drive the length of the field, at crunch time, it would be different. Oregon did it, texas did it last year. Florida put us away with a drive where we just could not stop a team on 3rd down.

Yup, it's been a trend going on however many years Mike has been gone.

[yermom]

if our offense could have burned more clock then they wouldn't have been able to just leisurely stroll down the field in the 4th quarter

our D played about a quarter longer than theirs did

[OU_PhD]

If this had been the first time our D had allowed a team to drive the length of the field, at crunch time, it would be different. Oregon did it, texas did it last year. Florida put us away with a drive where we just could not stop a team on 3rd down.

You're still talking about the Oregon game?

The coaches don't make plays, they just put the players in positions to make plays, and they did on Saturday night. They held BYU to 7 points for almost the entire game until the final minutes and got the Sooner offense the ball multiple times.

Are you seriously going to consider the amount of time the defense spent on the field and still give no credit for keeping them out of the endzone?

[MyT Oklahoma]

Why is it that you guys think that we're suddenly going to figure out how to stop the intermediate passing game? That's pretty much been our weakness for the last 3-4 years. That's how Texas beat us last year.

BYU very easily could have scored 28 or more points in the game last night. The D came up with some big plays, but there were way too many breakdowns, against a team that was breaking in an offensive line that was just as inexperienced/banged up as ours, and playing without their starting tailback, to be calling it championship caliber.

BYU doesn't have anywhere near the athletes on offense at the skill positions that we're going to play against when we get to October.

^^ This. But those of you in whom hope springs eternally are still entitled to your opinions.

[wishbonesooner]

You're still talking about the Oregon game?

The coaches don't make plays, they just put the players in positions to make plays, and they did on Saturday night. They held BYU to 7 points for almost the entire game until the final minutes and got the Sooner offense the ball multiple times.

Are you seriously going to consider the amount of time the defense spent on the field and still give no credit for keeping them out of the endzone?

But remember, this is supposed to be possibly the best defense Stoops has had. Did our coaching staff not hype them in that manner all spring and summer? Stoops has had defenses that did exactly that, and they did it when Nate was struggling moving the ball.

[Desert Sapper]

that last touchdown can anyone tell whose fault that was?? either franks or proctor?

I wanna say it was Nelson. Carter went out with the injury and Nelson stepped in. If Franks was covering man, he should have covered that little receiver to the back of the endzone, but Nelson was the closest when their guy caught the ball, because Franks broke on Pitta.

Our secondary made several mental errors, but damn if the D wasn't on the field the whole game. I've only seen 1 Mike Stoops D that could stay on the field the whole game and still pull out a win (2001), and they didn't win em all, either.

[delhalew]

The offense put them in a tough spot, but I need to see more consistency from the secondary before I can go along with this.

Also, I feel totally justified in raking the coaching staff over the coals, and no one will convince me otherwise.

[okiewaker]

I think the D will figure out some things and get better. Just how much better will be the question. It will interesting to see how good byu's offense is in upcoming games.

[East Coast Bias]

I am with curly and the rest of the group on this one. Haven't we had enought sunshine-pumping around here from everybody, especially the coaches? We are not a very good football team right now and certainly not championship grade.We will get lit up by the likes of Tulsa ina couple of weeks if they don't change some fundimental stuff quick. We need the coaches to start coaching and quit relying on raw talent to overpower teams. I am no football expert but I could figure out a way to protect the quarterback the first time he got slammed. If we are not going to throw to the tight-end why not leave a back in with his head on a swivel? If no rush comes he drops off into the flat as a check-off. All that wildcat stuff and running calhoun in the first quarter told me the coaches thought we were a better team than what we really are.... Lets put some reality into these assessments and start with some blocking and tackling....

[kingsby]

If this had been the first time our D had allowed a team to drive the length of the field, at crunch time, it would be different. Oregon did it, texas did it last year. Florida put us away with a drive where we just could not stop a team on 3rd down.

Amen Brother - why don't people see this.

Anyone who talks up our defense needs to understand they have not been able to stop the other team when the game is on the line.

The only time our defense shines is when the offense puts up huge number and the defense has some breathing room.

When it is time to win the game, they just can't do it.

[East Coast Bias]

Kingsby is hitting the nail square here, the trend goes way back. Boise game-We had it won off reggie's intercept, yet the D could not hold off an 80-yard drive when the game was on the line. All of us sunshine pumpers would call the D, "bend don't break", when we were able to outscore on offense. Remember? I think our D tends to sell out at all costs too often rather than playing sound, disciplined, assignment football.

[richsooner]

?????????? If BYU had thrown the ball 3 out of every 4 downs instead of trying to run it, the would have had 500(MAYBE 600) yds passing and beat us 50-13. We have to get some heat going , then this can be a championship defense. If we stay healthy.........................

[OU_PhD]

it is unbelievable that people can't give credit where it's due. how much gas did you guys expect them to have in the tank in the 4th qtr?

seriously?

This is a championship caliber defense PERIOD.

[CK Sooner]

it is unbelievable that people can't give credit where it's due. how much gas did you guys expect them to have in the tank in the 4th qtr?

seriously?

This is a championship caliber defense PERIOD.

I think it is to, but we need to improve our pass coverage still.

[RedstickSooner]

They just need to load up on Monster energy drink. I had 2 on my way home. I about kicked a hole in my truck when I got out!

Nah. Just give them a helmet full of the co-caine. They'll do fine.

And it'll weed out the ones with heart conditions.

[Hotrod3157]

it is unbelievable that people can't give credit where it's due. how much gas did you guys expect them to have in the tank in the 4th qtr?

seriously?

This is a championship caliber defense PERIOD.

Im giving credit where its due the defense played good enough to win the game and held a top 20 team to 14 points. Im sure the defense was gassed in the 4th quarter from the difference in time of possession. Everybody always blames time of possession on an offense not sustaining drives but part of the problem is the defense not getting themselves off the field when they get the opportunity. Our defense on 3rd down was not good so it kept them on the field accounting for part of the difference in time of possession.

[OU_PhD]

Im giving credit where its due the defense played good enough to win the game and held a top 20 team to 14 points. Im sure the defense was gassed in the 4th quarter from the difference in time of possession. Everybody always blames time of possession on an offense not sustaining drives but part of the problem is the defense not getting themselves off the field when they get the opportunity. Our defense on 3rd down was not good so it kept them on the field accounting for part of the difference in time of possession.

hard to be efficient on defense when the offense goes 3 and out with drive-killing penalties on every possession.

this defense might have shut them out Saturday night if they had an offense that could sustain drives and allowed the defense to rest.

Everyone keeps talking about "this is how it always is ... yada yada yada..." about the defense but its actually contrary to what has typically happened. Usually OU defenses the last few years have started out slowly, tackling poorly and being sloppy, but they always GOT BETTER.

Imagine what this defense will be like when it starts HUMMING like a well-oiled MACHINE. It will.

The defense will keep OU in every game this season and you can book it.

[delhalew]

this defense might have shut them out Saturday night if they had an offense that could sustain drives and allowed the defense to rest.

It's not going to be any better when we score in a minute or less.

[sooner ngintunr]

It's not going to be any better when we score in a minute or less.

Thats what I was thinking. This years 3 and outs are the same as last years TD drives.

The defense kept themselves on the field for over 8 minutes on BYU's final drive.

To blame the offense for that particular drive is ridiculous.

Both TD drives in fact.

[Hotrod3157]

The defense will keep OU in every game this season and you can book it.

I think they are going to keep us in games all season too. I will rejoice to the heavens if they manage to win a game for us though its been too long since that actually happened.

[Jdog]

Not really. Not gonna say they didn't miss any, because there are missed calls every game, but we didn't get cheated by the officials.

one official made all the but one call against BYU. - but your right that's not why the sooners lost.
The Defense played good enought to win in a blow -with one exceptions -
D Franks was out of position all night,

[OU_PhD]

D. Franks would get my only bad grade on the night, JDog.

[OUAlumni1990]

The defense was on the field 37 minutes. The only other time the D was on the field that long was Florida and Texas last year. We lost those games too (in the final few minutes). See a pattern?

[sooneron]

The most impressive thing to me (besides the indiv play of GM, RR, TL etc) was the fact that we actually seemed to make an adjustment at halftime that made it more difficult for byu to pick up our blitz. I'm not sure if I have ever said that BV made a good in game adjustment before.

[westcoast_sooner]

Amen Brother - why don't people see this.

Anyone who talks up our defense needs to understand they have not been able to stop the other team when the game is on the line.

The only time our defense shines is when the offense puts up huge number and the defense has some breathing room.

When it is time to win the game, they just can't do it.

And why don't people see that a) holding a pretty good offensive football team to 14 points and b) doing it when they are on the field for 40 minutes means that we're pretty good. RR needs more speed. We need to be deeper at MLB. Other than that, can't complain about our D.

[IronSooner]

RR has been slow since he hurt his knee the first time. He's never been able to drop into coverage and UT exploits it every year.

Our secondary's philosophy seems to be allow the catch and then tackle the guy soon thereafter. We don't try to break up passes. Watch any game over the last several years.

We don't have a killer instinct anymore. We play like it's business. Saturday I saw very little emotion from anyone. I saw more hand-waving, trying to incite the 80% OU crowd to get loud. Crowds will take care of themselves if you fly around and play defense like it's supposed to be played.

Our pass D is our weakest link, and has been for the last 5 years or so. Most teams try to make their opponent one-dimensional so they can tee off when they know what's coming. We can still take away the run, but when we know a team is going to pass (BYU in 2nd half) we can do nothing about it. Our front 7 / blitzes are our pass D. Our secondary just does the tackling. If our front 7 doesn't get there, it's complete. Watch last season's games and see how many times that happens. It's sickening.

More than anything I just want someone new coaching the D-backs. Keep BJW on as a recruiting coordinator and hire someone to coach the secondary. That's all I'm asking. I'm tired of automatic completions for the other team.

[Curly Bill]

I know our offense had a lot of 3 and outs thus keeping our defense on the field...

...but didn't our defense have the same opportunity to limit BYU to 3 and outs?

If you're on defense all the time and you want to get off the field, stopping someone on 3rd down goes a long long way towards accomplishing that.

[Hotrod3157]

I know our offense had a lot of 3 and outs thus keeping our defense on the field...

...but didn't our defense have the same opportunity to limit BYU to 3 and outs?

If you're on defense all the time and you want to get off the field, stopping someone on 3rd down goes a long long way towards accomplishing that.

Exactly!!

[rainiersooner]

Why is it that you guys think that we're suddenly going to figure out how to stop the intermediate passing game? That's pretty much been our weakness for the last 3-4 years. That's how Texas beat us last year.

Which is weird, because our linebackers are supposed to be good. I don't actually know enough about football fundamentals - is it because they bite and the safeties don't and leave a soft area? Why is it that this is a fundamental problem of ours?

[Curly Bill]

Which is weird, because our linebackers are supposed to be good. I don't actually know enough about football fundamentals - is it because they bite and the safeties don't and leave a soft area? Why is it that this is a fundamental problem of ours?

We play a soft cover 2 defense. The safeties are often too deep to really defend the short over the middle stuff, and the LBers are often too shallow, or have difficulty running with a speedy receiver over the middle.

Teams also gameplan to pull the two safeties out of the middle of the field and then exploit them being spread more toward the sidelines, or being pulled deep to help over the top with an outside receiver, or for that matter a slot receiver.

It's common to attack all cover 2's in that way, we seem to have more trouble than most though in defending that stuff.

Personally I think the secondary coach (BJW) should be replaced. ;)

[rainiersooner]

Our secondary's philosophy seems to be allow the catch and then tackle the guy soon thereafter. We don't try to break up passes. Watch any game over the last several years.

We can still take away the run, but when we know a team is going to pass (BYU in 2nd half) we can do nothing about it. Our front 7 / blitzes are our pass D. Our secondary just does the tackling. If our front 7 doesn't get there, it's complete. Watch last season's games and see how many times that happens. It's sickening.

You're right. Why is that? Is it poor coaching? It's interesting that one of Stoops' greatest safeties, Roy Williams, has also had that same knock on him - great run defense, great tackler, poor in coverage. BTW, watching the Miami game right now - I'm very worried that we're going to see a bunch of 3rd down conversions with their QB harris scrambling and making something happen. Not good.

[soonervegas]

One of the sides of this argument will be proven wrong in 4 weeks. I am pretty confident I am on the right side....I would love to be wrong.

[BoulderSooner79]

I know our offense had a lot of 3 and outs thus keeping our defense on the field...

...but didn't our defense have the same opportunity to limit BYU to 3 and outs?

If you're on defense all the time and you want to get off the field, stopping someone on 3rd down goes a long long way towards accomplishing that.

I have to disagree. Good offenses that execute properly are going to move the chains some. 3 and out are not easy to do and get harder as the game goes on. It was obvious our guys were having a hard time getting off blocks on that long drive and was directly related to the imbalance in # plays run. But even with that, they were good enough to force critical 3rd downs and even 1 4th down. BYU executed on those in the clutch, so hats off to them.

It works both way - it would have been hard for BYU to force us into 3 and outs, but we did it for them. Seemed every positive 1st down play had a penalty and we started 1st and 20.

I saw signs of a very good defense out there and may even develop into a great one. But it won't be enough against our orange foes if the offense doesn't do their part.

[IronSooner]

We play a soft cover 2 defense. The safeties are often too deep to really defend the short over the middle stuff, and the LBers are often too shallow, or have difficulty running with a speedy receiver over the middle.

Teams also gameplan to pull the two safeties out of the middle of the field and then exploit them being spread more toward the sidelines, or being pulled deep to help over the top with an outside receiver, or for that matter a slot receiver.

It's common to attack all cover 2's in that way, we seem to have more trouble than most though in defending that stuff.


What I don't understand is, why must we play a cover 2 all the time? Anyone who plays us knows how our D will line up and can exploit it as described above. BYU figured it out pretty well and called plays appropriately. So did UT last year.

I really expected us to play zone while Stoops was new and we had slower players. Then when we could recruit faster more talented players, I figured we'd start switching between man and zone. Still hasn't happened. I'm not saying we should play man all the time, but it seems like playcalling might be a little more challenging on the offense if they weren't completely sure what the defense would look like.

Couple that with our obviously telegraphed blitzes and our lack of bluffing on blitzes and opposing QBs should be able to read the D pretty well pre-snap. And perhaps it's more coaching, but when plays break down and you're playing zone, you have to cover someone. It seems like our guys, maybe taught this way, end up staying dogmatically in their zones, whether or not anyone's actually there. So we get guys covering air while receivers run open in between zones. I may be wrong on that, just how it looks from the stands.

[Curly Bill]

I couldn't tell ya why we stick to something even when it doesn't work. I want to say that it comes down to a bit of arrogance on the part of our staff. I wonder if they think they're above having to "trick things up."

I mean how many times have we heard Bob say after a loss or a bad game: We just have to execute.

Executing is fine and dandy, but how about doing something to give yourself an edge, especially in something like say...oh I don't know: a bowl game.

[Desert Sapper]

I would love to see us play more man, but I don't know if that would have kept them out of the endzone. The last TD maybe would have been, as Franks would have followed that little receiver to the back of the endzone and not broke on Pitta.

[jduggle]

Are the best defenses in the country playing zone? No... and it's because of the spread offense. A good QB licks his chops when he sees cover 2. The pros only play cover 2 zone in specific situations. Unless you have an outstanding pass rush and can pressure the QB into making a mistake, eventually the receiver will find a hole in the transition areas usually right across the middle of the field.

[the_ouskull]

I would've liked to see a few less missed tackles from them, though.

Can we get Rocky Calmus in as a linebackers coach?

I'd like to see him come back as a "don't be a p*ssy" coach.

the_ouskull

[SoonerPr8r]

I saw BYU wr's setting up camp between our zones the other night. And was it just me or did the safety's seem to be playing out of position a lot? They seemed to bite really early which led to most of the long pass plays.

EDIT: But other than that our rush D was solid and I like the intensity and teamwork that was going on with our front seven.

[jduggle]

I just can't figure out how much more evidence Stoops needs before he realizes that the zone defense doesn't work against good teams.

[Desert Sapper]

It seems like it would take a couple of losing seasons, because Bob is very loyal to his assistants. The question is, what would it take for Venables to realize that running some man coverage would make his D much better?

[Curly Bill]

It seems like it would take a couple of losing seasons, because Bob is very loyal to his assistants. The question is, what would it take for Venables to realize that running some man coverage would make his D much better?

Hell freezing over.

I am sincerely of the opinion that BV is not a mental giant.

He knows what he knows about football, and that's what he knows. Being able to look at a problem and come up with a solution on his own? I think that's where the problem lies.

I doubt he's ever had an original thought.

[jduggle]

As usual CB is right on the money. But ultimately it's BS that has to see the light and you would think that his BCS record would have opened his eyes.

[tulsaoilerfan]

I would love to see us play more man, but I don't know if that would have kept them out of the endzone. The last TD maybe would have been, as Franks would have followed that little receiver to the back of the endzone and not broke on Pitta.

Everyone is blaming Franks, but if we were in a zone, wouldn't that have been the safety's responsibility on that play? He jumped the short route and left the deeper route wide open

[tulsaoilerfan]

The defense was on the field 37 minutes. The only other time the D was on the field that long was Florida and Texas last year. We lost those games too (in the final few minutes). See a pattern?

I'm so sick of seeing this "defense was on the field too long" excuse; how about they stop a drive once in a while instead of letting the other team convert over half of their third downs? This time of possession thing works both ways you know?

[okiewaker]

I'm so sick of seeing this "defense was on the field too long" excuse; how about they stop a drive once in a while instead of letting the other team convert over half of their third downs? This time of possession thing works both ways you know?

They did stop a pretty good offense all but twice despite the number of plays BYU ran. I thought it was pretty good, championship, I don't know. JMO

[Peeb]

xxxx

[madillsoonerfan5353]

I hope to see this O-Line turn things around. This was their first game together as a unit.

I also want to see the DLine get a lot more pressure (was the BYU O-Line THAT good?) and I want to see less blown coverage in the secondary. There is really no excuse for the two BYU TDs.

When the D is on the field for more than half the game, your gonna have blown coverages!

[tulsaoilerfan]

When the D is on the field for more than half the game, your gonna have blown coverages!

Going into the 4th quarter, BYU had run 4 more plays than OU had; how could the defense have been that damn tired to allow a 16 play drive? I agree the defense played well AT TIMES, but 9-18 on 3rd and 4th down is not championship caliber defense; i remember defenses of the past that would bail out the offense when they were struggling, but when was the last time that really happened?

[tulsaoilerfan]

They did stop a pretty good offense all but twice despite the number of plays BYU ran. I thought it was pretty good, championship, I don't know. JMO

Agreed; pretty good, but not championship or the Sooners would have won the game

[landrun]

The defense was on the field 37 minutes. The only other time the D was on the field that long was Florida and Texas last year. We lost those games too (in the final few minutes). See a pattern?

Yeah. I do see a pattern. That's the point. They can't man up and stop a drive when they need to. This defense is no more of a championship caliber defense than they have been the last several years.

We still give up third and long.
We still can't blitz.
We still allow drives, long drives, in key moments of games.
And we still get toasted in the passing game.

This defense is exactly as it has been for a long while now. There is no difference at all.

After the first week, we're the number 103 ranked passing defense in the country and number 69 overall. I know it is just one week, but still, the numbers are pretty telling. How can anyone claim this is a GREAT defense? Only by looking at the number 14 on the score board and ignoring the rest of the game.

But if you want to call that a championship type defense, go right ahead. I'll just respectfully disagree based upon the results of the games and how we those results transpired.

[Curly Bill]

Boys, we've had pretty much the same defense since a certain someone left for the desert. I know some peeps get tired of me beating that drum, but we keep seeing the evidence of it over and over.

[mightysooner]

I didn't see a championship caliber defense on the field. I saw an all NFL D-line get handled for most of the game by an inexperienced BYU O-line that should've gotten embarrassed by our front four. I also saw us guarding patches of grass instead of receivers and get torched through the air......again. Seems like every QB we play against has a big day throwing the football no matter how average they are and our blitz packages look like somebody throwing a wet waffle at a wall. Just my observation....

[Crucifax Autumn]

We need man coverage. Make guys beat us one on one, then there are no seems to be found in the zone. We have enough individual talent to do that and more importantly there won't be any argument over who blew the coverage.

[landrun]

We need man coverage. Make guys beat us one on one, then there are no seems to be found in the zone. We have enough individual talent to do that and more importantly there won't be any argument over who blew the coverage.

I'm not a coach, never have been. But I agree with this and I just wonder what the argument would be against heavy man coverage?

[IronSooner]

I didn't see a championship caliber defense on the field. I saw an all NFL D-line get handled for most of the game by an inexperienced BYU O-line that should've gotten embarrassed by our front four. I also saw us guarding patches of grass instead of receivers and get torched through the air......again. Seems like every QB we play against has a big day throwing the football no matter how average they are and our blitz packages look like somebody throwing a wet waffle at a wall. Just my observation....

I miss the days when playing us ended a guy's Heisman campaign. Seneca Wallace, Chris Brown, Tech's QB (name one), UT's QB (name one), etc. Lately it seems like we only bolster our opponent. I'm a defensive guy, it's what I watch. I'm just ready to get fired up about our D again.

[Desert Sapper]

Everyone is blaming Franks, but if we were in a zone, wouldn't that have been the safety's responsibility on that play? He jumped the short route and left the deeper route wide open

That was my point. If he were in man coverage, he wouldn't have. He would have stayed with the BYU receiver to the back of the endzone.

[Desert Sapper]

Boys, we've had pretty much the same defense since a certain someone left for the desert. I know some peeps get tired of me beating that drum, but we keep seeing the evidence of it over and over.

I think it's just because we all know that BV isn't going anywhere and Mike's not coming back.

If nothing else, I would like to see us steal the DC from TCU. If that guy can do that with decent athletes, what can he do with great athletes?

[BoulderSooner79]

The defense did plenty to win that game. Maybe not "championship", but good enough to almost single handedly win against a legit top 20 team. If the O could at least move the chains a few times and run a few more play, we win convincingly (even with Sam out).

[tulsaoilerfan]

The defense did plenty to win that game. Maybe not "championship", but good enough to almost single handedly win against a legit top 20 team. If the O could at least move the chains a few times and run a few more play, we win convincingly (even with Sam out).

They didn't make the stop they needed to with the game on the line, so how can you say they did plenty to win the game? Remember 12-7 at Stillwater in 2000? 13-2 against FSU in 2000? 12-0 against Texas in 2004? All 3 games the offense struggled in, yet the defense bailed them out; that's what's supposed to happen in football for a championship caliber team

[BoulderSooner79]

They didn't make the stop they needed to with the game on the line, so how can you say they did plenty to win the game? Remember 12-7 at Stillwater in 2000? 13-2 against FSU in 2000? 12-0 against Texas in 2004? All 3 games the offense struggled in, yet the defense bailed them out; that's what's supposed to happen in football for a championship caliber team

I can say that because they held a team to 14 pts. and forced 3 turnovers against a good team with a very good and experienced QB. Teams like that will move the ball and will score points (as ours should). You can only stuff teams and get 3 and outs against inferior opponents - the rules favor the offense. If the defenses get too good, they change the rules. Football has evolved beyond "defense wins championships" and you have to be pretty good at everything and they have to work together. Va tech can have the best D in the world and they will never win a title until they grow an offense.

[mightysooner]

I miss the days when playing us ended a guy's Heisman campaign. Seneca Wallace, Chris Brown, Tech's QB (name one), UT's QB (name one), etc. Lately it seems like we only bolster our opponent. I'm a defensive guy, it's what I watch. I'm just ready to get fired up about our D again.

You and me both brotha! I think it's obvious that no team we play is afraid of us anymore. Especially our defense. After many seasons watching this sad little scheme we run, we can't say it's "the players not making plays". We recruit phenomenal talent year in and year out and you can't tell me we are just having a many year string of defensive players not panning out. No way. We haven't had a DB with any sort of prominence since D Straight was here. I see the same thing every year. Players standing in a patch of grass while receivers run uncovered on their routes. I don't understand the philosophy of not covering a WR and letting him catch the ball and just focus on making the tackle after he does. What is that?

Florida's secondary played our all world offense in man in the NC game last year and they did one hell of a job. They were on our receivers like glue. If it worked for them in the NC game against us, it'll for for us in this pass happy conference. Screw the soft zone. Let's mug our opponents at the line of scrimmage.

[Curly Bill]

You and me both brotha! I think it's obvious that no team we play is afraid of us anymore. Especially our defense. After many seasons watching this sad little scheme we run, we can't say it's "the players not making plays". We recruit phenomenal talent year in and year out and you can't tell me we are just having a many year string of defensive players not panning out. No way. We haven't had a DB with any sort of prominence since D Straight was here. I see the same thing every year. Players standing in a patch of grass while receivers run uncovered on their routes. I don't understand the philosophy of not covering a WR and letting him catch the ball and just focus on making the tackle after he does. What is that?

Florida's secondary played our all world offense in man in the NC game last year and they did one hell of a job. They were on our receivers like glue. If it worked for them in the NC game against us, it'll for for us in this pass happy conference. Screw the soft zone. Let's mug our opponents at the line of scrimmage.

Just from this post you seem to be a right thinking individual, why are you so red? Or should I ask who turned you so red?

[JLEW1818]

las

[Curly Bill]

las

You don't know that...


...do ya?

[JLEW1818]

dunno, he on ignore list... haha

[starclassic tama]

They didn't make the stop they needed to with the game on the line, so how can you say they did plenty to win the game? Remember 12-7 at Stillwater in 2000? 13-2 against FSU in 2000? 12-0 against Texas in 2004? All 3 games the offense struggled in, yet the defense bailed them out; that's what's supposed to happen in football for a championship caliber team

ding ding ding we have a winner

[Curly Bill]

I don't think LAS plays around on the FB board much. He has a tough enough time playing his character over on the SO. :D



Just kidding LAS, you big ol genuine conservative you. :P

[Desert Sapper]

12-0 against Texas in 2004?

I also remember the same team giving up 55 points in the Orange Bowl that year. Just sayin'.

[Position Limit]

why is being on the field for 37 minutes an excuse for not stopping an 80 yard game winning drive? this talent is in the physical prime of their lives. they workout year round and should have the endurance of marathon runner. summer workouts, 2-a-days, top notch nutrition, EVERYTHING. i think this defense is plenty conditioned to play for 37 min. such a lame excuse. when i watch them, i see a conditioned team with tons of talent that is capable of making plays, but they never, ever seem to own a game. start to finish. EVER!

[Gresho Murford]

but they never, ever seem to own a game. start to finish. EVER!

If you are talking about THIS team then you are correct b/c we have played 1 game and definitely didn't own it. If you are talking about in recent years, you must have missed quite a few games

[Position Limit]

If you are talking about THIS team then you are correct b/c we have played 1 game and definitely didn't own it. If you are talking about in recent years, you must have missed quite a few games

night games at home dont count pal. the games that im writing about have been well cronicled. my post isnt that hard to figure out, but i'll make easier for you. most loses the last few seasons have a direct coorelation to defensive breakdowns in the 4th quarter. now i know after the idaho state game you're going to be all giddy about this defense "owning" the game but lets get real.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I am just thankful that Mike Stoops never lost a 16-13 game to OsU or a 20-10 game to Nebraska, 30-26 to Texas A&M, OSU 38-28, I mean Mike Stoops would have never coached a defense that would surrender 38 points. From what I read here, Mike Stoops' Defense never gave up more than 7 points. I had a dream a few years ago that a Mike Stoops' defense was playing in Stoolwater and kept giving up deep pass after deep pass, and I remember people posting about how Stoops gives up too many big plays and needs keep stuff in the middle of the field more often. Thank God that was just a horrible dream since Mike Stoops never gave up more than 135 yards in his whole time at OU!!!

[Gresho Murford]

night games at home dont count pal. the games that im writing about have been well cronicled. my post isnt that hard to figure out, but i'll make easier for you. most loses the last few seasons have a direct coorelation to defensive breakdowns in the 4th quarter. now i know after the idaho state game you're going to be all giddy about this defense "owning" the game but lets get real.

Oh so you can just forget about games that don't support your opinion? Must be nice.

and I quote "they never, ever seem to own a game. start to finish. EVER!"

[sooneron]

heh


this is directed at Gandalf's post .

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I am just thankful that Mike Stoops never lost a 16-13 game to OsU or a 20-10 game to Nebraska, 30-26 to Texas A&M, OSU 38-28, I mean Mike Stoops would have never coached a defense that would surrender 38 points. From what I read here, Mike Stoops' Defense never gave up more than 7 points. I had a dream a few years ago that a Mike Stoops' defense was playing in Stoolwater and kept giving up deep pass after deep pass, and I remember people posting about how Stoops gives up too many big plays and needs keep stuff in the middle of the field more often. Thank God that was just a horrible dream since Mike Stoops never gave up more than 135 yards in his whole time at OU!!!

Mike Stoops OU defenses gets better every year that he is gone

[BoulderSooner79]

Spek, Gandalf. Good teams with good QBs are going to move the ball. If our D plays like that all year, we will be in every game. If our O plays like that all year, the other guys will be in every game (or worse).

[sooneron]

Mike Stoops OU defenses gets better every year that he is gone

Just like Barry never losing a big game.:rolleyes:

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

i've seen championship caliber defenses and this isn't one of them. heck, this isn't wouldn't even make a list of the top 25 defenses in OU history.

re: why don't we run man - up until last saturday the major reason we've always ran zone was because of big 12 refs. its just too easy for a spread team to get a defensive holding or PI running man because they would call PI for farting in the receiver's general direction. the tighter they called PI one season, the looser we played the next. this has absolutely killed us in bowl season because other conferences let lots of physical contact go. you play 12 games of touch football its incredibly hard to get used to playing rugby for one game.

however, last week they let a lot of contact go. byu was called for the off hand in the end zone and franks was called for arriving early, both pretty blatant calls. however, there was lots of contact on both sides not being called. if they are going to consistently call the secondary like this, i think you'll start to see us close the gap a lot more.

oh, and contrary to popular belief, for the longest time spread teams exploited man defenses and sucked against zone. remember the lee corso quote in 2000 - "the way you stop oklahoma is with the umbrella zone". what made it so effective was the zone blitz, which has now becomes its achilles heel. what made us so good at the zone before mike left, was partly our personnel, but mainly our artfullness at disguising the blitz. right now, we might as well put neon tape on the blitzer :(.

one of the things that i really like from the DL was their rush lane discipline. what was so frustrating was that they were doing it against the wrong team. that will keep guys like robinson and mccoy in the pocket, but BYU we needed to go helter skelter for the QB. their OL wasn't much better than ours, but they exploited ours with stunts, overloads, and blitzes whereas we did straight bull rushes into theirs.

the linebackers continue to disappoint. everyone is oh, our linebackers are so awesome. if they were we wouldn't give up 5000 yards in our soft underbelly. let me say that again, drags are good for 5-10 yards on ANY down.

ryan reynolds should only be on the field in obvious running situations. the only person on the D who might be slower than him is adrian taylor and i'd probably put my money on taylor in a 40 yard dash. did my eyes betray me or did they actually have him as the deepest guy on that last TD? that speaks to a level of hubris that deserved to lose right there.

lewis needs to understand that the game is 60 minutes long. you can't jack around and go through the motions for the first 20 and the last 20. he just doesn't have ANY sense of urgency (to be fair, he isn't the only one). college football isn't high school or the pros - you can't go out and lay an egg and expect to win it all. EVERY game is a playoff.

clayton is a luxury that we can't afford this year. last year with our O, we just needed him to bumble around and cause one TO a game. this year we need execution because we aren't going to score very many points.

the secondary is meh except for franks falling asleep a couple of times a game. this is the second player in a row that has shown that tendency and trends speak to coaching.

as for the conditioning arguments, i just point to chris brown. have you ever seen a running back asked to be pulled after 3 carries for 25ish yards?

[Gresho Murford]

i've seen championship caliber defenses and this isn't one of them. heck, this isn't wouldn't even make a list of the top 25 defenses in OU history.

re: why don't we run man - up until last saturday the major reason we've always ran zone was because of big 12 refs. its just too easy for a spread team to get a defensive holding or PI running man because they would call PI for farting in the receiver's general direction. the tighter they called PI one season, the looser we played the next. this has absolutely killed us in bowl season because other conferences let lots of physical contact go. you play 12 games of touch football its incredibly hard to get used to playing rugby for one game.

however, last week they let a lot of contact go. byu was called for the off hand in the end zone and franks was called for arriving early, both pretty blatant calls. however, there was lots of contact on both sides not being called. if they are going to consistently call the secondary like this, i think you'll start to see us close the gap a lot more.

oh, and contrary to popular belief, for the longest time spread teams exploited man defenses and sucked against zone. remember the lee corso quote in 2000 - "the way you stop oklahoma is with the umbrella zone". what made it so effective was the zone blitz, which has now becomes its achilles heel. what made us so good at the zone before mike left, was partly our personnel, but mainly our artfullness at disguising the blitz. right now, we might as well put neon tape on the blitzer :(.

one of the things that i really like from the DL was their rush lane discipline. what was so frustrating was that they were doing it against the wrong team. that will keep guys like robinson and mccoy in the pocket, but BYU we needed to go helter skelter for the QB. their OL wasn't much better than ours, but they exploited ours with stunts, overloads, and blitzes whereas we did straight bull rushes into theirs.

the linebackers continue to disappoint. everyone is oh, our linebackers are so awesome. if they were we wouldn't give up 5000 yards in our soft underbelly. let me say that again, drags are good for 5-10 yards on ANY down.

ryan reynolds should only be on the field in obvious running situations. the only person on the D who might be slower than him is adrian taylor and i'd probably put my money on taylor in a 40 yard dash. did my eyes betray me or did they actually have him as the deepest guy on that last TD? that speaks to a level of hubris that deserved to lose right there.

lewis needs to understand that the game is 60 minutes long. you can't jack around and go through the motions for the first 20 and the last 20. he just doesn't have ANY sense of urgency (to be fair, he isn't the only one). college football isn't high school or the pros - you can't go out and lay an egg and expect to win it all. EVERY game is a playoff.

clayton is a luxury that we can't afford this year. last year with our O, we just needed him to bumble around and cause one TO a game. this year we need execution because we aren't going to score very many points.

the secondary is meh except for franks falling asleep a couple of times a game. this is the second player in a row that has shown that tendency and trends speak to coaching.

as for the conditioning arguments, i just point to chris brown. have you ever seen a running back asked to be pulled after 3 carries for 25ish yards?

it looks like you put a lot of thought into this but I had to stop reading. 1) It has been one game! You can't judge this defense in one game. 2) So you want us to play all our non conference games with man and big 12 games with zone? Thats as far as I got

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

it looks like you put a lot of thought into this but I had to stop reading. 1) It has been one game! You can't judge this defense in one game. 2) So you want us to play all our non conference games with man and big 12 games with zone? Thats as far as I got

sigh. reading comprehension FTW.

we (as in OU) have been in a tampa 2 (or some derivative) since 2000.

our refs (as in big 12 refs) have been getting worse and worse on PI since that time

we (as in OU) have gotten softer and softer in coverage since that time

we (as in OU) have been hurt big time in bowl games with other conference refs because they allow contact

conclusion: do you prepare for the bowl game and hope you skate unscathed through the conference season or do you play it safe during the season and hope to overcome it in the bowl game

shocking update after 1 day of games: our refs (as in big 12 refs) over several games were allowing a lot of contact in the secondary although i think pokey state had sec refs.

revised conclusion: if this is how they are going to call games, i think man might be a possibility in the future.

[cvsooner]

Overall great post, as usual, from JKM. Man knows his stuff.

The discipline of the d-line was a great thing to see, and overall it will pay off in the future. It wasn't a hindrance here, so much, though I would have liked to see more pressure on that final drive. They averaged 4.78 yards per play on that final drive...a first down every three plays. Just about perfect. You only have to average 3.4 yards and you'll win just about every time.



as for the conditioning arguments, i just point to chris brown. have you ever seen a running back asked to be pulled after 3 carries for 25ish yards?

I may be wrong, but I seem to remember Brown asking to come out because of a shoe problem? Or was that Murray?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I may be wrong, but I seem to remember Brown asking to come out because of a shoe problem? Or was that Murray?

that was in the first half, this was in the 3rd quarter on one of our field goal drives. we had a couple of 1st downs on some of his runs and then he comes out and we stall.

[Salt City Sooner]

sigh. reading comprehension FTW.

we (as in OU) have been in a tampa 2 (or some derivative) since 2000.

our refs (as in big 12 refs) have been getting worse and worse on PI since that time

we (as in OU) have gotten softer and softer in coverage since that time

we (as in OU) have been hurt big time in bowl games with other conference refs because they allow contact

conclusion: do you prepare for the bowl game and hope you skate unscathed through the conference season or do you play it safe during the season and hope to overcome it in the bowl game

shocking update after 1 day of games: our refs (as in big 12 refs) over several games were allowing a lot of contact in the secondary although i think pokey state had sec refs.

revised conclusion: if this is how they are going to call games, i think man might be a possibility in the future.

It may have been a split crew for UGA/OSU as I don't know all the lesser folks on it, but the head man was Tom Walker & he's Big 12.

[Gresho Murford]

sigh. reading comprehension FTW.


What? Your very first line was "i've seen championship caliber defenses and this isn't one of them."

To which I responded "It has been one game! You can't judge this defense in one game."

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

What? Your very first line was "i've seen championship caliber defenses and this isn't one of them."

To which I responded "It has been one game! You can't judge this defense in one game."

you know, your probably right. i'm basing this on 10 years of watching what makes this D tick. and i just feel the sad state of our linebackers is going to come back and haunt us time and time again. there just isn't any upside to reynolds or clayton.

[Scott D]

reynolds was only the deep guy on their TD because both carter (I think it was) and franks broke forward at the same time as Reynolds.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

reynolds was only the deep guy on their TD because both carter (I think it was) and franks broke forward at the same time as Reynolds.

he was aligned deeper than them at the snap though. i was like rut roh raggy. i'm sure that QB's eyes were wide as saucers.

edit: it was franks and proctor. franks released the WR to the inside, but there were 2 receivers for 3 defenders and it looked like proctor had inside leverage on the running back from the beginning.

[cvsooner]

that was in the first half, this was in the 3rd quarter on one of our field goal drives. we had a couple of 1st downs on some of his runs and then he comes out and we stall.

Ah. I couldn't remember and I don't have the stomach to look at the game again.

[A-M]

I didn't see a championship caliber defense on the field. I saw an all NFL D-line get handled for most of the game by an inexperienced BYU O-line that should've gotten embarrassed by our front four. I also saw us guarding patches of grass instead of receivers and get torched through the air......again. Seems like every QB we play against has a big day throwing the football no matter how average they are and our blitz packages look like somebody throwing a wet waffle at a wall. Just my observation....

Pretty good observation to me.

[Scott D]

he was aligned deeper than them at the snap though. i was like rut roh raggy. i'm sure that QB's eyes were wide as saucers.

edit: it was franks and proctor. franks released the WR to the inside, but there were 2 receivers for 3 defenders and it looked like proctor had inside leverage on the running back from the beginning.

I thought proctor had the deeper coverage and bit on the TE same as Franks. Reynolds definitely should have been aligned shallower.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

that makes more sense. proctor reminds me a lot of brandon everage, which isn't a good thing when you are playing a 4-3

[toast]

A couple of questions, jkm - if you don't mind:



but mainly our artfullness at disguising the blitz. right now, we might as well put neon tape on the blitzer :(.

one of the things that i really like from the DL was their rush lane discipline. what was so frustrating was that they were doing it against the wrong team. that will keep guys like robinson and mccoy in the pocket, but BYU we needed to go helter skelter for the QB. their OL wasn't much better than ours, but they exploited ours with stunts, overloads, and blitzes whereas we did straight bull rushes into theirs.



Regarding the blitzing, I agree and it was painfully obvious when and where the blitz was coming from...does BV just not have the knack for coaching and calling blitzes, or is it poor execution on the players, and has the blitz package pretty much stayed the same year after year?

Regarding the lack of stunts on the dl, is this just a matter of our coaches relying on their belief that the OU athletes are just better than the opponents, not wanting to show something, or not properly game planning by expecting to handle the opponent without stunts, etc.?

[stoopified]

that makes more sense. proctor reminds me a lot of brandon everage, which isn't a good thing when you are playing a 4-3Given that Proctor has played extended miutes in only one game (this one) I think it is hard to compare him ,good or bad,to anyone.The Everage compaison IMHO does seem to fit Quinton however as both he and Brandon E. are headhunters who are better at the big hit than coverage.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Regarding the blitzing, I agree and it was painfully obvious when and where the blitz was coming from...does BV just not have the knack for coaching and calling blitzes, or is it poor execution on the players, and has the blitz package pretty much stayed the same year after year?

Regarding the lack of stunts on the dl, is this just a matter of our coaches relying on their belief that the OU athletes are just better than the opponents, not wanting to show something, or not properly game planning by expecting to handle the opponent without stunts, etc.?

1. i think its more of a player thing than coaching. if you think about the guys who were great at disguising blitzes, they were early in our tenure and just had a knack for it.

2. i think that they have been working on the discipline. the DL played well enough for us to win, just the other areas didn't.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Given that Proctor has played extended miutes in only one game (this one) I think it is hard to compare him ,good or bad,to anyone.The Everage compaison IMHO does seem to fit Quinton however as both he and Brandon E. are headhunters who are better at the big hit than coverage.

everage was a head hunter at the LOS though. chaney is a headhunter on routes. proctor was right in there with reynolds on a lot of those big stops.

[Desert Sapper]

Who was in there for Carter on the last TD drive?

I think Hall varying the snap count had a lot to do with us betraying our blitz. The only thing Hall wasn't doing well was looking off his receivers. That cat was staring down every time he threw the ball. I still can't get over us not picking him off more. And I was very surprised our D Line couldn't get to him more.

There was so much that went wrong in this game, that it's really impossible to lay it at any one unit's feet. Special teams was about the only unit that performed, and you could probably say that they lost the game, because if Way hit the ball right on the last FG attempt it would have been through the uprights.

The D looked very good at times, dodged some bullets, and looked like crap at points in the game. I don't think the LBs are the biggest problem. I think poor tackling and missed assignments in the secondary are the biggest problem. How many times did we hold their O for two or three downs and they converted on third and 4th down? How many of those times were secondary fubars vice LB fubars? The first TD that they had, both Franks and Carter screwed the pooch. The LBs had both INTs. They were using their TEs much deeper than you usually see. Every big catch was somewhere beyond 20 yards. And the last TD, somebody should have been deep other than Reynolds. Who was the safety on that side? Proctor? Why did he suck into Pitta?

The O looked awful except on the lone TD drive, and that was short because of the fumble recovery.

Sometimes, that's how things go.

[toast]

1. i think its more of a player thing than coaching. if you think about the guys who were great at disguising blitzes, they were early in our tenure and just had a knack for it.

2. i think that they have been working on the discipline. the DL played well enough for us to win, just the other areas didn't.

thanks

[A-M]

Who was in there for Carter on the last TD drive?

I think Hall varying the snap count had a lot to do with us betraying our blitz. The only thing Hall wasn't doing well was looking off his receivers. That cat was staring down every time he threw the ball. I still can't get over us not picking him off more. And I was very surprised our D Line couldn't get to him more.

There was so much that went wrong in this game, that it's really impossible to lay it at any one unit's feet. Special teams was about the only unit that performed, and you could probably say that they lost the game, because if Way hit the ball right on the last FG attempt it would have been through the uprights.

The D looked very good at times, dodged some bullets, and looked like crap at points in the game. I don't think the LBs are the biggest problem. I think poor tackling and missed assignments in the secondary are the biggest problem. How many times did we hold their O for two or three downs and they converted on third and 4th down? How many of those times were secondary fubars vice LB fubars? The first TD that they had, both Franks and Carter screwed the pooch. The LBs had both INTs. They were using their TEs much deeper than you usually see. Every big catch was somewhere beyond 20 yards. And the last TD, somebody should have been deep other than Reynolds. Who was the safety on that side? Proctor? Why did he suck into Pitta?

The O looked awful except on the lone TD drive, and that was short because of the fumble recovery.

Sometimes, that's how things go.

^^^^^This pretty much sums up the game. A lot of work to be done before we hit Tulsa, Miami and the rest. Hope they can do it cause I don't like being on the loosing end! After all, I've been a sooner for many, many years and with few exceptions, I haven't had much experience with this.:D :D

[Scott D]

Who was in there for Carter on the last TD drive?

I think Hall varying the snap count had a lot to do with us betraying our blitz. The only thing Hall wasn't doing well was looking off his receivers. That cat was staring down every time he threw the ball. I still can't get over us not picking him off more. And I was very surprised our D Line couldn't get to him more.

There was so much that went wrong in this game, that it's really impossible to lay it at any one unit's feet. Special teams was about the only unit that performed, and you could probably say that they lost the game, because if Way hit the ball right on the last FG attempt it would have been through the uprights.

The D looked very good at times, dodged some bullets, and looked like crap at points in the game. I don't think the LBs are the biggest problem. I think poor tackling and missed assignments in the secondary are the biggest problem. How many times did we hold their O for two or three downs and they converted on third and 4th down? How many of those times were secondary fubars vice LB fubars? The first TD that they had, both Franks and Carter screwed the pooch. The LBs had both INTs. They were using their TEs much deeper than you usually see. Every big catch was somewhere beyond 20 yards. And the last TD, somebody should have been deep other than Reynolds. Who was the safety on that side? Proctor? Why did he suck into Pitta?

The O looked awful except on the lone TD drive, and that was short because of the fumble recovery.

Sometimes, that's how things go.

Pitta was Hall's security blanket. Proctor quite simply broke his zone for a shallower zone for the more obvious receiver. Franks looked like he was trying to make a play, and made a bad decision in leaving his man believing Proctor to still be in his cover 2 position.

The more I think about it, I have a feeling that neither Proctor nor Franks felt that Hall could even see the guy who did catch the ball in the endzone because the line had him backpedaling to avoid being sacked.

[engineer24]

Too early to tell, but I predict this is NOT a championship caliber defense.

Championship caliber defenses only have 1 or maybe 2 bad games at the most all year. OU hasnt had one of those defenses since 2003.

No elite defense can shut down every team. Even the vaunted USC defense last year had 1 or 2 games where they didnt play very well. Even in Mike Stoops best years, there was always at least 1 or 2 games a season when the defense looked lost (OSU 2002, A&M 2002, A&M 2000, KSU 2003, etc).

With Brent Venables there are always a minimum of 4-6 games where the defense doesnt play well. Everybody says "hey look at the Florida game, our defense played well" and thats true, but its just one game. Look at the whole season. With Mike Stoops, defensive letdowns in games were rare. With Brent Venables, its fairly routine. Its a clear step down from the Mike Stoops days.

My prediction is that Texas, OSU, and at least a couple of other teams this year will make our defense look silly. Thats not a "championship caliber" defense.

[A-M]

Too early to tell, but I predict this is NOT a championship caliber defense.

Championship caliber defenses only have 1 or maybe 2 bad games at the most all year. OU hasnt had one of those defenses since 2003.

No elite defense can shut down every team. Even the vaunted USC defense last year had 1 or 2 games where they didnt play very well. Even in Mike Stoops best years, there was always at least 1 or 2 games a season when the defense looked lost (OSU 2002, A&M 2002, A&M 2000, KSU 2003, etc).

With Brent Venables there are always a minimum of 4-6 games where the defense doesnt play well. Everybody says "hey look at the Florida game, our defense played well" and thats true, but its just one game. Look at the whole season. With Mike Stoops, defensive letdowns in games were rare. With Brent Venables, its fairly routine. Its a clear step down from the Mike Stoops days.

My prediction is that Texas, OSU, and at least a couple of other teams this year will make our defense look silly. Thats not a "championship caliber" defense.

I'm afraid that you may very well be right about all of this.:( :( :(

[PhiDeltBeers]

Too early to tell, but I predict this is NOT a championship caliber defense.

Championship caliber defenses only have 1 or maybe 2 bad games at the most all year. OU hasnt had one of those defenses since 2003.

No elite defense can shut down every team. Even the vaunted USC defense last year had 1 or 2 games where they didnt play very well. Even in Mike Stoops best years, there was always at least 1 or 2 games a season when the defense looked lost (OSU 2002, A&M 2002, A&M 2000, KSU 2003, etc).

With Brent Venables there are always a minimum of 4-6 games where the defense doesnt play well. Everybody says "hey look at the Florida game, our defense played well" and thats true, but its just one game. Look at the whole season. With Mike Stoops, defensive letdowns in games were rare. With Brent Venables, its fairly routine. Its a clear step down from the Mike Stoops days.

My prediction is that Texas, OSU, and at least a couple of other teams this year will make our defense look silly. Thats not a "championship caliber" defense.

As much as I hate you for saying it. I agree. I think we lose 3 or 4 more games this year. Man, I hope I'm wrong. Just a gut feeling.

[Desert Sapper]

Pitta was Hall's security blanket. Proctor quite simply broke his zone for a shallower zone for the more obvious receiver. Franks looked like he was trying to make a play, and made a bad decision in leaving his man believing Proctor to still be in his cover 2 position.

The more I think about it, I have a feeling that neither Proctor nor Franks felt that Hall could even see the guy who did catch the ball in the endzone because the line had him backpedaling to avoid being sacked.


I think you are right on all counts, but that reeks of a lack of discipline and assignment coverage. We had three guys (including Reynolds) suck into Pitta, and that left a wide open guy in the back of the endzone. If either one of the DBs could have stayed with the open guy, that drive would have been a failure and we would have won the game.

As a side note, I bet the Cowboys didn't think little Joe Montana could see Dwight Clark in the back of the end zone, but that launched his damn career...even though he really couldn't see Clark in the back of the end zone and just put it where he thought he would be.

Making retarded decisions as a safety is not acceptable. 'Don't get beat deep' also applies in the endzone.

[A-M]

I think you are right on all counts, but that reeks of a lack of discipline and assignment coverage. We had three guys (including Reynolds) suck into Pitta, and that left a wide open guy in the back of the endzone. If either one of the DBs could have stayed with the open guy, that drive would have been a failure and we would have won the game.

As a side note, I bet the Cowboys didn't think little Joe Montana could see Dwight Clark in the back of the end zone, but that launched his damn career...even though he really couldn't see Clark in the back of the end zone and just put it where he thought he would be.

Making retarded decisions as a safety is not acceptable. 'Don't get beat deep' also applies in the endzone.

Haven't you heard Desert Sapper, IF never happens?

[Desert Sapper]

Haven't you heard Desert Sapper, IF never happens?


If is what defines the next game, unless you decide not to improve. It isn't a lack of adversity that makes you a champion. It's what you do when you face adversity.

[Scott D]

I think you are right on all counts, but that reeks of a lack of discipline and assignment coverage. We had three guys (including Reynolds) suck into Pitta, and that left a wide open guy in the back of the endzone. If either one of the DBs could have stayed with the open guy, that drive would have been a failure and we would have won the game.

As a side note, I bet the Cowboys didn't think little Joe Montana could see Dwight Clark in the back of the end zone, but that launched his damn career...even though he really couldn't see Clark in the back of the end zone and just put it where he thought he would be.

Making retarded decisions as a safety is not acceptable. 'Don't get beat deep' also applies in the endzone.

hell, if either had stayed in their assigned zone instead of attempting to anticipate the pass before it was thrown it's a good chance at being incomplete. However, that being said Franks is going to be a feast or famine player because he's willing to anticipate and gamble. I can accept that so long as the safety plays their assigned zone.

I'd give Proctor a break...we got spoiled by having guys with a lot of PT back in the safety spots last year, this was the kid's first start.

[A-M]

If is what defines the next game, unless you decide not to improve. It isn't a lack of adversity that makes you a champion. It's what you do when you face adversity.

So far we have faced adversity only one time. What did we do about it, well, you might say we didn't win that battle. No way can you call last night adversity so we really won't know if we improved much until next week. Hopefully, last night will give the guys some hope and we will improve a great deal next week.

[AzianSooner]

I hate to do these mind-masturbation like this. Get the NC then we talk about the caliber. The last 4-6 bowl has been a dramatic bending over kind of stuff.

Oh yeah. BYU did that again too. sht

[Desert Sapper]

So far we have faced adversity only one time. What did we do about it, well, you might say we didn't win that battle. No way can you call last night adversity so we really won't know if we improved much until next week. Hopefully, last night will give the guys some hope and we will improve a great deal next week.

Nope. Idaho State provided 0 adversity, but these kids didn't just fold after dropping the game to BYU, either. Could be they would have given up more on D or could be they would have scored less on O. Bottom line is they bounced back from the first adversity of the season and had a complete game. They'll face adversity again. Hopefully, they've learned a lot from the BYU game.

[Desert Sapper]

hell, if either had stayed in their assigned zone instead of attempting to anticipate the pass before it was thrown it's a good chance at being incomplete. However, that being said Franks is going to be a feast or famine player because he's willing to anticipate and gamble. I can accept that so long as the safety plays their assigned zone.

I'd give Proctor a break...we got spoiled by having guys with a lot of PT back in the safety spots last year, this was the kid's first start.


Roger, dodger. I'm not going to give Proctor a break, because I don't think Proctor would want one. I saw a lot of things in that first time starter, but a need for excuses wasn't one of them. I'm really excited about our safeties for the first time in a while.

I can agree that Franks needs the flexibility to go make plays. I don't see the safeties making the same mistakes again.