Bob Stoops is no Barry Switzer

[landrun]

Don't get me wrong, Bob's a good coach. And I can't think of anyone who could replace him and do a better job. But I swear, we have had some really strange games with him running the program.

The USC blow out, losing multiple national championship games which we coulda, shoulda, woulda won on a normal day.
Losing at home to the Pokes - Not just losing, but our d-backs getting toasted on play action series after series.
Losing BCS bowl game after BCS bowl game.
And I swear, I SWEAR we give up third and long more than any team I've ever seen. Infuriating!!
Our back-up QB's never get playing time until something happens like tonight.

It's just strange to me. How we can be so good and then choke so much!

Switzer had his flaws. And he might have had losses like this from time to time. But oddities like tonight are pretty common with Stoops' system. I don't know what it is, but you can tell when it is about to happen. Mid-way through the first quarter of a season opener.

All I can think of is 2 yards. First and goal at the 2 and you can't get 2 yards?!! And the illegal motion penalties are inexcusable.

[okcusooner]

You are absolutely right. Stoops is a good coach. But for whatever reason he lacks Switzer's ability to pull out the come from behind win in the big game.

Since the 2000 season, I can only remember the 2002 fourth quarter come from behind win in the big game against Alabama in Norman.

[MyT Oklahoma]

Barry Switzer was one of a kind. Bob Stoops is also one of a kind. But in Barry's day we had more damn talent than anyone else and he knew how to use it.

Bob brings in great talent but I am really beginning to wonder if he knows how to use it. He's the one making $4 million a year to coach the Sooners so I hope he gets it figured out before any of us do.

[yankee]

methinks we need the likes of leach and mangino prowling the sidelines as assistants...

[Crucifax Autumn]

No one is the king. Jesus could be OUr coach and we'd complain!

[Curly Bill]

No one is the king. Jesus could be OUr coach and we'd complain!

I'm guessing Jesus could have come up with a better offensive gameplan than we've shown in our last two games. :D

[StoopTroup]

Switzer won three. He didn't win the National Championship every year. From 1975 to 1985 there were folks just like you saying **** just like this.

After posting #3 he left.

I'm glad he's a part of Oklahoma University again.

Careful what you ask for is all I'll say.

[Crimson Blonde]

what? you don't think "run up the middle" when the O line can't even protect the QB is a good idea? i for one kept saying, holy f'ing sh*t every time they called that play, what's more jesus like than that? ;)

[Tear Down This Wall]

We were talking about this after the game. We threw in Tom Osbourne as well as Switzer.

The difference between those guys and the coaches of today is that, if you opened the door for a Switzer or Osborne team, they'd walk through it. BYU gift-wrapped our two last possession, beggin us to beat them and our coaching staff badly squandered both of them:

(1) First and goal at the one due to a pass intereference. We'd run the ball down their throats to get inside the ten. So, what to we do, try to pass, run once without the fullback who'd been blowing up the linebackers in the second half, then try to sneak with a QB playing in his first game, then a penalty after more ridiculous checking down at the line. Too many inexperience players and too much at stake to have a guy chekcing off when you just need a yard - at the goal line! Snap it, hand it off, and be done with it already!

(NOTE TO COACHES GUNDY, HEUPEL AND WILSON: We're at the one yard line. Quit trying to be fancy. Put Clapp and Brown in there and take three cracks at it. A touchdown is worth six points even if it's a boring, old running play.)

(2) BYU's kick off goes out of bound, giving us the ball at the 40. We move down to the 32 with 1:38 remaining on the pass to our third string tight end. The longest field goal we made last year was from 47. So, we're 50 yards out for a field goal and square in the middle of the field in a dome where weather isn't going to be a factor.

So, what do we do to make the game-winning field attempt closer? Do we put Matt Clapp and Chris Brown in there and jam us 7 to 10 yards closer as we run the clock down? No, we pass, pass, and pass almost intercepted with a penalty mixed in for good measure.

Our 50 yard game winning attempt is now a 55 yard effort. Then, we run on a kicker who'd never kicked in a game. Predictably, he misses. Game over. Stoops is being payed millions and his assistants several hundred thousand apiece for this kind of nonsense.

The Bottom Line is this:
-You've got four new lineman
-You've got four new receivers
-You've got two new tight ends
-You've got a quarterback playing in his first game
-Your experienced players at this point at fullback and halfback

Wilson, Heupel and Gundy ignore their experienced players when it counted and put it all on the shoulders of the inexperienced. It was, without question, the stupidest coaching you'll ever see out of that trio.

Switzer and Osborne would have played the percentages - put the ball in the hands of the experienced players and let them bang away to a win.

Utterly stupid. BYU tried to give us the game. Our offensive coaches were too dumb to oblige them. And, Stoops apparently was too asleep at the wheel to intervene.

[LawtonBoy74]

It was just a nightmare that you couldn't believe...but before we jump the gun on stoops we do have to remember where we were before stoops came

[okcusooner]

We were talking about this after the game. We threw in Tom Osbourne as well as Switzer.

The difference between those guys and the coaches of today is that, if you opened the door for a Switzer or Osborne team, they'd walk through it. BYU gift-wrapped our two last possession, beggin us to beat them and our coaching staff badly squandered both of them:

(1) First and goal at the one due to a pass intereference. We'd run the ball down their throats to get inside the ten. So, what to we do, try to pass, run once without the fullback who'd been blowing up the linebackers in the second half, then try to sneak with a QB playing in his first game, then a penalty after more ridiculous checking down at the line. Too many inexperience players and too much at stake to have a guy chekcing off when you just need a yard - at the goal line! Snap it, hand it off, and be done with it already!

(NOTE TO COACHES GUNDY, HEUPEL AND WILSON: We're at the one yard line. Quit trying to be fancy. Put Clapp and Brown in there and take three cracks at it. A touchdown is worth six points even if it's a boring, old running play).

(2) BYU's kick off goes out of bound, giving us the ball at the 40. We move down to the 32 with 1:38 remaining on the pass to our third string tight end. The longest field goal we made last year was from 47. So, we're 50 yards out for a field goal and square in the middle of the field in a dome where weather isn't going to be a factor.

So, what do we do to make the game-winning field attempt closer? Do we put Matt Clapp and Chris Brown in there and jam us 7 to 10 yards closer as we run the clock down? No, we pass, pass, and pass almost intercepted with a penalty mixed in for good measure.

Our 50 yard game winning attempt is now a 55 yard effort. Then, we run on a kicker who'd never kicked in a game. Predictably, he misses. Game over. Stoops is being payed millions and his assistants several hundred thousand apiece for this kind of nonsense.

The Bottom Line is this:
-You've got four new lineman
-You've got four new receivers
-You've got two new tight ends
-You've got a quarterback playing in his first game
-Your experienced players at this point at fullback and halfback

Wilson, Heupel and Gundy ignore their experienced players when it counted and put it all on the shoulders of the inexperienced. It was, without question, the stupidest coaching you'll ever see out of that trio.

Switzer and Osborne would have played the percentages - put the ball in the hand of the experienced players and let them bang away to a win.

Utterly stupid. BYU tried to give us the game. Our offensive coaches were too dumb to oblige them. And, Stoops apparently was too asleep at the wheel to intervene.


Sadly, everything you say is right on point. Expect to be bashed for it.

[SOONER44EVER]

Well said!

[tulsaoilerfan]

It was just a nightmare that you couldn't believe...but before we jump the gun on stoops we do have to remember where we were before stoops came

Doesn't matter; Bob is getting paid 4 million a year, and this was one of the worst coaching efforts i have seen in many a year

[rainiersooner]

(NOTE TO COACHES GUNDY, HEUPEL AND WILSON: We're at the one yard line. Quit trying to be fancy. Put Clapp and Brown in there and take three cracks at it. A touchdown is worth six points even if it's a boring, old running play.)

I agree with most of what you're saying...but, we did try that against Florida and it didn't work either. I have NO idea what the answer is though.

[pappy]

kevin wilson called a horrible game all game long...not just with landry in. we had the reigning heisman trophy winner in at qb in the first half and we tried to run the ball, run the ball, run the ball and at one point in the 2nd quarter byu was putting 8 and 9 guys in the box to stop the run. bradford should've been picking their def apart with 9 in the box!!

For all the good stuff wilson did last year...this is the 2nd straight game that he sucked calling plays.

Bob is now 9-10 when facing a ranked team that has atleast 2 weeks to prepare for him...I thought he was supposed to be one of the best coaches in the country?!

[RedstickSooner]

Stoops' flaw isn't that he can't use good players well -- I think he works with the talent he gets pretty well, we just don't recruit as well as some of the other elite schools.

I think we also finally had to come down to earth with our wideouts this year. Up 'til now, every season, we've managed to have enough guys who catch everything thrown near them, to keep our offensive juggernaut humming along. Tonight Sam couldn't get started because guys kept dropping stuff they should've caught. If they were making those catches, I doubt BYU would've pinned the ears back and come after him. We'd have the W, he'd have his arm, and I'd be a much happier camper.

Doesn't take many drops to cause our offense to implode. They sap our confidence, inflate the other teams', and get our defense on the field instead of our offense.

Or am I flat-out crazy? I'll accept that possibility.

[batonrougesooner]

This game was lost in August. The guys weren't ready to play.

[ndpruitt03]

Stoops is a good coach he's not near the level of Bud or Barry. I still can't believe anyone compares him to those 2 coaches. Those guys were game changers. I think Bob is just another good coach in this era. There's a lot of coaches that are probably better than he is.

[nBoSTP]

I always remember Oklahoma especially in the close games against Nebraska always finding a way to win. Ever since that Kansas St. game in Big 12 championship our team has never seemed to have "IT" when they are in a close game.

[Sooner70]

brougesooner......sure seems that way, at least offensively. They sure looked unprepared, even when Bradford was in. I thought except for their last TD pass, the defense did a reasonably good job.

Sooner Magic still seems to elude Stoops' teams every since his 2000 NC gang. OU used to always find a way to win the close ones, but nowadays it seems like if OU isn't leading by 10 points with a coupla minutes left, it's questionable.

I was afraid of this game all along. At least now it's out of the way.

[kingsby]

the sportsanimal said this was one of the few times Bob Stoops got outcoached, are your freaking kidding me.

It seems like he gets outcoached 3-4 times per season especially when it is a quality team he does not play on a regular basis.

Boise St.
West Virigina
Florida
Horns
hell Dennis Fran outcoached him when he was with Alabama a few years ago in Norman

Bob Stoops = Bobby Bowden = Kirk Ferentz = Jim Tressel

not in the same league as Pete Carrol, Urban Meyer

Hell even Mack Brown knows how to shake up his staff when the results are not good look at his DC changes

[PLaw]

You are absolutely right. Stoops is a good coach. But for whatever reason he lacks Switzer's ability to pull out the come from behind win in the big game.

Since the 2000 season, I can only remember the 2002 fourth quarter come from behind win in the big game against Alabama in Norman.

Uhh, I remember a good one down in College Station with a T-Marshall INT.

BOOMER

[PLaw]

Bob is now 9-10 when facing a ranked team that has atleast 2 weeks to prepare for him...I thought he was supposed to be one of the best coaches in the country?!

Oh, how long for the BIG GAME BOB moniker.

BOOMER

[okcusooner]

Uhh, I remember a good one down in College Station with a T-Marshall INT.

BOOMER

Uhh, that was in the 2000 season. The post said SINCE (hence after) the 2000 season.

[wishbonesooner]

Uhh, that was the 2000 season.
Bob brought us back from oblivion, he has made us a contender again. he has laid the foundation for greatness, but I hate to say this, I think it's time Bob moved on. Like one poster said, Mack Brown would not let the same situation burn him over and over. Bob has done exactly that, and I just cant see why unless it's complacency. Can someone else give a good reason?

[sidewinder517]

Wow.... We are spoiled. Even Switzer had bad nights. This coaching staff had a bad night. We will get over this slump and the world will be right again.

[SoonernAR]

Wow.... We are spoiled. Even Switzer had bad nights. This coaching staff had a bad night. We will get over this slump and the world will be right again.

Yes we are spoiled, but many loyal fans of Stoops are now beginning to think that something is amiss. Just too many games like this over the last 5 years to not notice a pattern of incompetence and lack of preparation.

[the_ouskull]

Wow.... We are spoiled. Even Switzer had bad nights. This coaching staff had a bad night. We will get over this slump and the world will be right again.

This isn't a bad night anymore. It stopped being a "bad night" after the USC game, and started being a trend.

the_ouskull

[StoopTroup]

Yes we are spoiled, but many loyal fans of Stoops are now beginning to think that something is amiss. Just too many games like this over the last 5 years to not notice a pattern of incompetence and lack of preparation.

Not the loyal ones.

[StoopTroup]

Uhh, that was the 2000 season.
Bob brought us back from oblivion, he has made us a contender again. he has laid the foundation for greatness, but I hate to say this, I think it's time Bob moved on. Like one poster said, Mack Brown would not let the same situation burn him over and over. Bob has done exactly that, and I just cant see why unless it's complacency. Can someone else give a good reason?

Given what you say...Switzer would have been gone without posting his 3rd NC in 85. It was a 10 year slump.

1981 through 1984 were tough.

1981 = 7-4-1
1982 = 8-4
1983 = 8-4
1984 = 9-2-1

So...we lost one game.

Last year we lost 2 one being a National Championship game.

Bob's worst year since 2000 was 2005 and he went 8-4.

You're crazy.

[TMcGee86]

So, what do we do to make the game-winning field attempt closer? Do we put Matt Clapp and Chris Brown in there and jam us 7 to 10 yards closer as we run the clock down? No, we pass, pass, and pass almost intercepted with a penalty mixed in for good measure..

That drove me nuts last night as well. Brown had destroyed them on the last drive and we go into an all air plan with two TO's still remaining.

And BYU was playing the pass. How we dont burn them with a run is beyond me.

[wishbonesooner]

This isn't a bad night anymore. It stopped being a "bad night" after the USC game, and started being a trend.

the_ouskull

That is exactly what is so frustrating, and yes even to loyal fans. we were told we weren't being loyal when we were howling about John Blake, Now, we aren't loyal when we ask why we keep losing games exactly the same way.

[StoopTroup]

That is exactly what is so frustrating, and yes even to loyal fans. we were told we weren't being loyal when we were howling about John Blake, Now, we aren't loyal when we ask why we keep losing games exactly the same way.

That's because your just not right.

The truth is...you couldn't find a replacement to save your life.

[wishbonesooner]

Given what you say...Switzer would have been gone without posting his 3rd NC in 85. It was a 10 year slump.

1981 through 1984 were tough.

1981 = 7-4-1
1982 = 8-4
1983 = 8-4
1984 = 9-2-1

So...we lost one game.

Last year we lost 2 one being a National Championship game.

Bob's worst year since 2000 was 2005 and he went 8-4.

You're crazy.

I'd agree with you but for one reason. When we were celebrating the 2000 NC, at the celebration on Owen Field, Bob Stoops made this statement " You shouldn't thank me for winning a national championship, you should expect it from me"
We don't expect Bob to win one every year, but we do expect him to see his program's weaknesses and failures, and to make the changes needed. He does not appear to be ready to do that. If I'm wrong, somebody point out what I'm missing here.

[StoopTroup]

I'd agree with you.

Then there is hope for you yet.

Thanks for listening.

[ndpruitt03]

Given what you say...Switzer would have been gone without posting his 3rd NC in 85. It was a 10 year slump.

1981 through 1984 were tough.

1981 = 7-4-1
1982 = 8-4
1983 = 8-4
1984 = 9-2-1

So...we lost one game.

Last year we lost 2 one being a National Championship game.

Bob's worst year since 2000 was 2005 and he went 8-4.

You're crazy.

We've had some good years but we've got a lot more talent than everyone else. If we don't win 10-12 games with the talent we have then we have a joke of a staff. In 81-83 Switzer will even tell you his recruiting wasn't as good as it was and his talent was down. Now starting in 84 and even early as 83 his and his staff's recruiting got better and it started to show by late 84 and 85 through 87 or so.

We have somewhere around 5 first round draft picks on this roster. How many teams with 5 first round draft picks lose games?

[sooneron]

I will agree that the coaching was weak last night, but when the past is the past, people look at it in a much more positive light.

1975- Kansas comes to Norman and hands it to one of the greatest teams of all time.
1976- We lose to osu at home. I won't bring up the cu loss as it was in Boulder, but they ended up 8-4
1977- We get absolutely thumped in the OB.
1980- We lose to Stanford at home.
1982- We lose to WV at home, I won't mention the FB, as we were playing asu in their house, but Marcus had how many yards?
1983- I'll give a pass- rebuilding and the losses were to pretty good teams
1984- All the marbles on the line and we lose to UW and look pretty inept doing it.

[GrapevineSooner]

That is exactly what is so frustrating, and yes even to loyal fans. we were told we weren't being loyal when we were howling about John Blake, Now, we aren't loyal when we ask why we keep losing games exactly the same way.

Texas, Nebraska, Colorado, Kansas, Kansas State, Texas A&M, and even OSU owned Blake.

So forgive me if I dare suggest your comparison doesn't even fit.

On other note, last night's game proved how ridiculous pre-season rankings are.

[OKC-SLC]

We were talking about this after the game. We threw in Tom Osbourne as well as Switzer.

The difference between those guys and the coaches of today is that, if you opened the door for a Switzer or Osborne team, they'd walk through it. BYU gift-wrapped our two last possession, beggin us to beat them and our coaching staff badly squandered both of them:

(1) First and goal at the one due to a pass intereference. We'd run the ball down their throats to get inside the ten. So, what to we do, try to pass, run once without the fullback who'd been blowing up the linebackers in the second half, then try to sneak with a QB playing in his first game, then a penalty after more ridiculous checking down at the line. Too many inexperience players and too much at stake to have a guy chekcing off when you just need a yard - at the goal line! Snap it, hand it off, and be done with it already!

(NOTE TO COACHES GUNDY, HEUPEL AND WILSON: We're at the one yard line. Quit trying to be fancy. Put Clapp and Brown in there and take three cracks at it. A touchdown is worth six points even if it's a boring, old running play.)

(2) BYU's kick off goes out of bound, giving us the ball at the 40. We move down to the 32 with 1:38 remaining on the pass to our third string tight end. The longest field goal we made last year was from 47. So, we're 50 yards out for a field goal and square in the middle of the field in a dome where weather isn't going to be a factor.

So, what do we do to make the game-winning field attempt closer? Do we put Matt Clapp and Chris Brown in there and jam us 7 to 10 yards closer as we run the clock down? No, we pass, pass, and pass almost intercepted with a penalty mixed in for good measure.

Our 50 yard game winning attempt is now a 55 yard effort. Then, we run on a kicker who'd never kicked in a game. Predictably, he misses. Game over. Stoops is being payed millions and his assistants several hundred thousand apiece for this kind of nonsense.

The Bottom Line is this:
-You've got four new lineman
-You've got four new receivers
-You've got two new tight ends
-You've got a quarterback playing in his first game
-Your experienced players at this point at fullback and halfback

Wilson, Heupel and Gundy ignore their experienced players when it counted and put it all on the shoulders of the inexperienced. It was, without question, the stupidest coaching you'll ever see out of that trio.

Switzer and Osborne would have played the percentages - put the ball in the hands of the experienced players and let them bang away to a win.

Utterly stupid. BYU tried to give us the game. Our offensive coaches were too dumb to oblige them. And, Stoops apparently was too asleep at the wheel to intervene.

This.

[SoonernAR]

Not the loyal ones.

The truth hurts, I'm sorry for you that you feel compelled to use your neg hammer as a means to keep your head in the dirt.

[CK Sooner]

The truth hurts, I'm sorry for you that you feel compelled to use your neg hammer as a means to keep your head in the dirt.

Cry me a river.

[GrapevineSooner]

That having been said, I can't disagree with anything in TDTW's post.

To call three straight passing plays after you've driven to the BYU with gobs of time left is inexcusable. Our coaching staff if far and away better than anything we had in the Gibbs, Schnelly, or Blake era.

But they seem to have hit a ceiling when it comes to big games.

[StoopTroup]

The truth hurts, I'm sorry for you that you feel compelled to use your neg hammer as a means to keep your head in the dirt.

I'm sorry you feel the way you do.

Maybe you should find another place to go grovel about how your life is ruined now.

[SoonernAR]

But they seem to have hit a ceiling when it comes to big games.

Which is the pattern I was referring too Grapevine, don't kill the messenger Stoop b/c of my msg count.

[picasso]

Scholarship limits.

But Bob has certainly become more conservative.

Something tells me the younger Stoops might have taken a few more chances last night.

[Monster Zero]

" (1) First and goal at the one due to a pass intereference. We'd run the ball down their throats to get inside the ten. So, what to we do, try to pass, run once without the fullback who'd been blowing up the linebackers in the second half, then try to sneak with a QB playing in his first game, then a penalty after more ridiculous checking down at the line. Too many inexperience players and too much at stake to have a guy chekcing off when you just need a yard - at the goal line! Snap it, hand it off, and be done with it already!

(NOTE TO COACHES GUNDY, HEUPEL AND WILSON: We're at the one yard line. Quit trying to be fancy. Put Clapp and Brown in there and take three cracks at it. A touchdown is worth six points even if it's a boring, old running play.) "

What you said.

EXACTLY what you said.

[IronHorseSooner]

" (1) First and goal at the one due to a pass intereference. We'd run the ball down their throats to get inside the ten. So, what to we do, try to pass, run once without the fullback who'd been blowing up the linebackers in the second half, then try to sneak with a QB playing in his first game, then a penalty after more ridiculous checking down at the line. Too many inexperience players and too much at stake to have a guy chekcing off when you just need a yard - at the goal line! Snap it, hand it off, and be done with it already!

(NOTE TO COACHES GUNDY, HEUPEL AND WILSON: We're at the one yard line. Quit trying to be fancy. Put Clapp and Brown in there and take three cracks at it. A touchdown is worth six points even if it's a boring, old running play.) "

What you said.

EXACTLY what you said.

I believe that it was Barry himself who once said that if you can't line it up four times with the fullback and get the yardage, you don't deserve to win. It's not that hard to get. Also, not leaving your OL down in their stances for 20 seconds helps, especially when they are used to playing a fast break style offense.

[StoopTroup]

(NOTE TO COACHES GUNDY, HEUPEL AND WILSON: We're at the one yard line. Quit trying to be fancy. Put Clapp and Brown in there and take three cracks at it. A touchdown is worth six points even if it's a boring, old running play.) "

You've done it now....

Some folks aren't gonna like that.

I remember Seth Littrell and how he would throw these massive blocks for the backs. He was a fan favorite too. An Oklahoma Boy, I believe his Dad played for OU if I remember that right.

Clapp and Brown are definitely a good part of our Offense. Things just didn't click last night.

Things like that always look bad when they don't work...but go for 50 yards or punch it in...and your a freaking hero until you get stopped.

Good stuff Monster.

[tulsaoilerfan]

I don't understand why we took so long to call the plays on the goal line last night? Run the damn play on a quick snap and try to catch the other team off guard

[the_ouskull]

Scholarship limits.

But Bob has certainly become more conservative.

Something tells me the younger Stoops might have taken a few more chances last night.

The younger Stoops wouldn't have had to take more chances because he would have come up with a brilliant game plan to systematically attack BYU's strengths and weaknesses, and his players would have executed it flawlessly, getting more and more excited each time one of BYU's supposed "money plays" didn't net them anything. The younger Stoops would have had to call off the dogs. The older Stoops couldn't call the dogs in for supper, even when BYU tried to set the table for him themselves... twice...

the_ouskull

[Blitzkrieg]

See Switzer vs ArkNsaw for national title. See Switzer versus Washington for Nat'l title, see Switzer versus Stanford is season opener.

I think Stoops is superior to Switzer given scholarship limits and all the other restriction we face today.

[85Sooner]

Gibbs went 2-15-1 against Texas, Nebraska and Colorado, when they were ranked and we fired him. How has Bob looked the last few years against ranked teams?

[SanDiegoSoonerGal]

I'm starting to worry that Bob Stoops is no Bob Stoops.:(

[OlRedMagic]

We were talking about this after the game. We threw in Tom Osbourne as well as Switzer.

The difference between those guys and the coaches of today is that, if you opened the door for a Switzer or Osborne team, they'd walk through it. BYU gift-wrapped our two last possession, beggin us to beat them and our coaching staff badly squandered both of them:

(1) First and goal at the one due to a pass intereference. We'd run the ball down their throats to get inside the ten. So, what to we do, try to pass, run once without the fullback who'd been blowing up the linebackers in the second half, then try to sneak with a QB playing in his first game, then a penalty after more ridiculous checking down at the line. Too many inexperience players and too much at stake to have a guy chekcing off when you just need a yard - at the goal line! Snap it, hand it off, and be done with it already!

(NOTE TO COACHES GUNDY, HEUPEL AND WILSON: We're at the one yard line. Quit trying to be fancy. Put Clapp and Brown in there and take three cracks at it. A touchdown is worth six points even if it's a boring, old running play.)

(2) BYU's kick off goes out of bound, giving us the ball at the 40. We move down to the 32 with 1:38 remaining on the pass to our third string tight end. The longest field goal we made last year was from 47. So, we're 50 yards out for a field goal and square in the middle of the field in a dome where weather isn't going to be a factor.

So, what do we do to make the game-winning field attempt closer? Do we put Matt Clapp and Chris Brown in there and jam us 7 to 10 yards closer as we run the clock down? No, we pass, pass, and pass almost intercepted with a penalty mixed in for good measure.

Our 50 yard game winning attempt is now a 55 yard effort. Then, we run on a kicker who'd never kicked in a game. Predictably, he misses. Game over. Stoops is being payed millions and his assistants several hundred thousand apiece for this kind of nonsense.

The Bottom Line is this:
-You've got four new lineman
-You've got four new receivers
-You've got two new tight ends
-You've got a quarterback playing in his first game
-Your experienced players at this point at fullback and halfback

Wilson, Heupel and Gundy ignore their experienced players when it counted and put it all on the shoulders of the inexperienced. It was, without question, the stupidest coaching you'll ever see out of that trio.

Switzer and Osborne would have played the percentages - put the ball in the hands of the experienced players and let them bang away to a win.

Utterly stupid. BYU tried to give us the game. Our offensive coaches were too dumb to oblige them. And, Stoops apparently was too asleep at the wheel to intervene.

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!

Let's not forget a QB who runs about as fast as molasses breaking out of the pocket at the 15 yard line and having 4, count'em 4, players decide to stop covering receivers and allowing a wide open TD for the win. This was oddly reminiscent of the WV game.

[OlRedMagic]

See Switzer vs ArkNsaw for national title. See Switzer versus Washington for Nat'l title, see Switzer versus Stanford is season opener.

I think Stoops is superior to Switzer given scholarship limits and all the other restriction we face today.

Bwahahahahahahahahaha, ok... ok.... Bwahahahahahahahaha

[OlRedMagic]

I'm starting to worry that Bob Stoops is no Bob Stoops.:(

Meh, if Bob wasn't so worried about keeping friends and family on the OU gravy train they'd be a lot better. We're learning loyalty can be a fault just as much as anything else.

[Curly Bill]

Meh, if Bob wasn't so worried about keeping friends and family on the OU gravy train they'd be a lot better. We're learning loyalty can be a fault just as much as anything else.

That's not fair! I'm fairly certain that Wilson, Venables, and Bobby Jack have pictures showing Bob in a bad light. What do you expect him to do?


:D

[Sabanball]

You're right--Switzer ran a dirty program and Bob doesn't.

You guys are just spoiled. Do all of you malcontents need a quick history lesson and to revisit the '90s before Bob came to Norman? Your storied program was in a shambles. He not only has he returned you to respectability, but has won one NC and had you guys in the hunt every year. And correct me if I am wrong, but he has the best winning percentage of ANY coach over the last decade, save maybe Pete Carroll.

I swear, listening to some of you I think you would complain if someone gave you a million bucks all in twenty dollar bills! Bob may have lost several NC games, BUT AT LEAST HE GOT YOU THERE! Quit complaining--you have one of the top three coaches in the country!

[spacecadet]

over the past 4 or 5 years anytime this staff goes against another staff that is regarded as a good staff they get their butts handed to them.

Say what you want but it all comes down to the head coach.

Also, how glad is florida that Stoops turned them down. They only had to put up with Zook for a couple years and now look what they have going.

[Half a Hundred]

That's not fair! I'm fairly certain that Wilson, Venables, and Bobby Jack have pictures showing Bob in a bad light. What do you expect him to do?


:D

I really think it's a Peter principle situation - each of the three are competent enough to where you can't justifiably fire them, but the position they're currently in does not maximize their strong points.

Wilson can't just let them play. Venables doesn't know how to make adjustments to what the offense is giving them. BJW is BJW.

[ndpruitt03]

Last 9 games against out of conference ranked teams outside of Owen Field, OU is 0-9

[tulsaoilerfan]

Last 9 games against out of conference ranked teams outside of Owen Field, OU is 0-9

2003 LSU
2004 USC
2005 UCLA?
2006 Oregon and Boise State
2007 West Virginia
2008 Florida
2009 BYU

Who am i missing? Too lazy to look it up.

[ndpruitt03]

Sorry I thought it was all losses. It's actually 1-8. Win was against Oregon. In reality it's 2-7 with 2 wins over Oregon but the refs gave one to Oregon.

[Tear Down This Wall]

We had the ball inside the 10 yard line five times against Oregon and came away with only two field goals. Alot had gone wrong before the onside kick.

Again, that game was an example of our goal line failures. And, yes, we did get beat. Even after the onside fiasco, our secondary had the option to go ahead and cover the Duck receivers. They didn't.

[stoopified]

Don't get me wrong, Bob's a good coach. And I can't think of anyone who could replace him and do a better job. But I swear, we have had some really strange games with him running the program.

The USC blow out, losing multiple national championship games which we coulda, shoulda, woulda won on a normal day.
Losing at home to the Pokes - Not just losing, but our d-backs getting toasted on play action series after series.
Losing BCS bowl game after BCS bowl game.
And I swear, I SWEAR we give up third and long more than any team I've ever seen. Infuriating!!
Our back-up QB's never get playing time until something happens like tonight.

It's just strange to me. How we can be so good and then choke so much!

Switzer had his flaws. And he might have had losses like this from time to time. But oddities like tonight are pretty common with Stoops' system. I don't know what it is, but you can tell when it is about to happen. Mid-way through the first quarter of a season opener.

All I can think of is 2 yards. First and goal at the 2 and you can't get 2 yards?!! And the illegal motion penalties are inexcusable.First of all you are comparing apples and oranges ,two different ers.

National Championship losses?Barry lost 31-6 to Arkansas in agame with title implications.switzer lost 28-17 to Washington with the title on the line,then of couerse he also lost 20-14 to Miami in the Orange Bowl in a game that wasn'that close as OU scored late on a fumbleroski.

Bob lost to osu in Norman? So did Barry 31-24 in 1976.BTW Bob has lost only TWICE at home in 10 years,Barry lost at home SIX times in his first 10 years and was tied 7-7 by ISU.

We didn't score from the two? Billy Sims fumbledaway a win in 1978 at the Husker 2.

Losses like tonight are common in Stoops system?How many times did Barry have his Heisman winner knocked out of the game in the first half?

I will give you one thingthough,you are right that Barry played his backup QB and Bob doesn't.Overall though for the most part in todays' game reserves get less PT,not just at OU but everywhere.I would agree that I think the 20 hour prctice limit influences voaches to get their starters reps in games they used to get in practice. I would like to see Bob play his backup QB more,I do have a theory on that though.I think he is afraid of QB controversy if a bacup plays a lot and has sucess.I think he saw that with White-Hybl and has tried to avoid it since. I do understand your frustration though BUT I also recall similar frustrations during the Switzer years.

[Soonerus]

Bob Stoops is no Barry Switzer...Bob Stoops is Bob Stoops....

[OU Adonis]

Barry had a winning record in bowl games. 8-5

[OU Adonis]

National Championship losses?Barry lost 31-6 to Arkansas in agame with title implications.switzer lost 28-17 to Washington with the title on the line,then of couerse he also lost 20-14 to Miami in the Orange Bowl in a game that wasn'that close as OU scored late on a fumbleroski.


1) The Arkie game wasn't near as bad as the USC game.

2) The Washington game they were tied up going into the fourth quarter

3) Not as close as the score indicated? What are you talking about? It was tied up at half. Miami "dominated" OU by outgaining them by 25 yards of total offense.

Barry was 3-3 in NC games. Bob is 1-3

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

If Bob Stoops could pay players maybe he could get in Barry's league. Let's be serious for one second though. How many good teams were there back then. Not to mention the technical level of offenses and defenses now a days is ungodly compared to then. You had to prepare for run up the middle, run to the left, run to the right.

[SoonerShay]

Yay! another Bob is no Barry Switzer thread. Who the hell is a Barry Switzer or a Bear Bryant? No one since him has been as good. Bobs tenure here isn't even over, it's not out of the question that he could surpass Barry, but I'm sure not in a revisionist heart he won't.

[spacecadet]

I'd bet my house that Bob won't surpass Barry in the NC catagory.

[stoopified]

[QUOTE=OU Adonis;2694684]1) The Arkie game wasn't near as bad as the USC game.

2) The Washington game they were tied up going into the fourth quarter

3) Not as close as the score indicated? What are you talking about? It was tied up at half. Miami "dominated" OU by outgaining them by 25 yards of total offense.

Barry was 3-3 in NC games. Bob is 1-3[/QUOTEThe Hawg game was against a team we were heavily favored to beat that had suspened THREE starters.We were never in the game BUT if you go STRICTLY by final margin of15 pts compared to 36 ,ok but how manyUSC starters were suspended and how many TDS were we favored by?

Actually we LED Washington by 17-14 and THEN were outscored 14-0 in the 4th to lose,your point?

Yes we WERE dominated by UM in the Orange Bowl.It was a game we NEVER led and were down 20-7 late in the game when Mark Hutson scored on the trick play.TYour total yardage commemt tells me that you either did not see the game or you do not recall the actual game. Total yardage arguement is for losers.

Yes Barry was 8-5 in Bowl games and Bob is only 4-6,but Barry Coached 17 years,Bob 10.It doesn't take a math wizard to figure out Bob can easily pass Barry in the next 7 years.

Barry was 3-3 in NC games?Actually he never coached in any.There was no National Championship game in Switzer's day. He was 2-3 in bowl games that COULD decide the NC( in in 1974 we played no bowl game). That is why I say this is an apples and oranges argument because in todays game there IS an NC game pitting #1-#2

.We won in 1975 after #1 TOSU was beaten in the Rose Bowl by UCLA,not OU.We beat a Michigan team(14-6) that had lost to that SAME Buckeye team. A footnote on that 1975 team- THEY LOST AT HOME to KU 23-3.They also nbarely beat the Buffs 21-20,Missouri 28-27.That resume would not garner an NC in todays game.BTW has Bob ever lost by 20 at Home?

In 1985 #1 Miami ( WHO BEAT US 27-14 IN NORMAN) lost their bowl game( to Tennessee I believe but definitely not us).we beat #2 Penn State to win .Clearly Barry is 0-0 in NC games having played in no #1 vs. #2 bowl games.

Barry was a great coach who led us for 17 years,Bob is a great coach who has lled us only 10 years. I think this comparison is premature because of the time span difference.I also find it pointless as I have shown Barry failed in many instances just like Bob.

Bottom line is that Barry and Bob ,along with Bennie and Bud have made OU what it is today IMHO THE GREATEST COLLEGE FOOTBALL PROGRAM IN AMERICA.Boomer Sooner baby.

[OU Adonis]

Actually I watched all three Miami games in the 80s, thanks for playing.

You consider what Miami did to us as "Dominating" but not what USC did to us as dominating?

And don't give me that BS that there were no NC games back then. There is a general consensus on people that actually followed football back in the 70s and 80s that if OU won the Ark game, the Washington game, and the Miami game that we would have 3 more titles.

The 85 OU Miami game was my very first home OU game. OU was moving the ball until Troy got his leg broke. Then we put in a FRESHMAN QB and we lose. Now your saying that since we lost by 13 when we had a freshman put in for the first time Barry is a bad coach?

[XingTheRubicon]

Barry was 18-1 in games decided by 3 points or less.


It's not fair to compare anyone to Barry.


Jesus is waiting for Barry to die for football info.



btw, the one loss was the Heisman trophy winner fumbling on the 3 @N.







18-1.

[TXBOOMER]

I will agree that the coaching was weak last night, but when the past is the past, people look at it in a much more positive light.

1975- Kansas comes to Norman and hands it to one of the greatest teams of all time.
1976- We lose to osu at home. I won't bring up the cu loss as it was in Boulder, but they ended up 8-4
1977- We get absolutely thumped in the OB.
1980- We lose to Stanford at home.
1982- We lose to WV at home, I won't mention the FB, as we were playing asu in their house, but Marcus had how many yards?
1983- I'll give a pass- rebuilding and the losses were to pretty good teams
1984- All the marbles on the line and we lose to UW and look pretty inept doing it.

1975 Seriously? I'd say we made a pretty good comeback that year.

3 NC's from 1974 - 1985

You might like Bob better (I totally like Bob), but don't try to make Barry look bad to defend him.

[TXBOOMER]

If Bob Stoops could pay players maybe he could get in Barry's league. Let's be serious for one second though. How many good teams were there back then. Not to mention the technical level of offenses and defenses now a days is ungodly compared to then. You had to prepare for run up the middle, run to the left, run to the right.

Barry wasn't paying them Boosters were. Car dealers etc. :texan:

[Sooner70]

Here's where we find out about Bob Stoops coaching abilities in the face of adversity....again. Recall the Bomar, bring in Paul Thompson thing (wasn't that a first game loss to TCU?..), and losing Peterson for the remainder of the season. Stoops seems to respond when his back is against the wall and turns adversity into a positive--well, except in bowl games of late. Here's to hoping he'll do it again, but I must admit, this may be a bigger mountain to climb.

Instead of dealing with uncertainty, I think Stoops will encourage Gresham, Bradford to do the best what's long term best for them. That may result in a long time healing process for them, but has the advantage of setting the lineup & let's get on with the new faces and make something good happen. If Sam & Jamaine are out, so be it. Those guys have a pro career at stake and need to get themselves fully treated/surgeried or whatever and fully healed. What happens to OU should be second in their mind right now, & I think Stoops would agree.

[stoopified]

Actually I watched all three Miami games in the 80s, thanks for playing.

You consider what Miami did to us as "Dominating" but not what USC did to us as dominating?

And don't give me that BS that there were no NC games back then. There is a general consensus on people that actually followed football back in the 70s and 80s that if OU won the Ark game, the Washington game, and the Miami game that we would have 3 more titles.

The 85 OU Miami game was my very first home OU game. OU was moving the ball until Troy got his leg broke. Then we put in a FRESHMAN QB and we lose. Now your saying that since we lost by 13 when we had a freshman put in for the first time Barry is a bad coach?I NEVER Said USC did not dominate us.I did however say that as HEAVY favorites Barry's boys were dominated by a depleted Hawg squad which was missing THREE OFFENSIVE starters.Was the USC dominance greater than the Arky?Proably,BUT who cares!(that is a staement not a question)

?The fact is Barry had embarrassing losses too that you seem unwilling or unable to acknowledge, for instance 23-3 loss in NORMAN to KU.About that freshamn QB thing ,It bears a striking resemblance to what happened Saturday .We lost a 1 point game to BYU with a freshman QB replaced a Heisman winner. When Barry's Heisman win...All -A...All -Conf...uh average QB went out he lost too(and yes Aikman was no better than average at OU)Apparently you ARE the one who thinks losing a game when your HEISMAN winning qb goes out makes BOB a bad coach.I never attacked Barry as a coach FOR any reason.I simply defended Bob by pointing out Barry lost embarrasing games too and was NOT perfect.

As for the National title game question ? Reread my post slowly if you must.Barry was 2-3 in so-called NC bowl games( beat Michigan,Penn State neither of whom was ranked number one and lost to Arkansas,Washington,Miami). We played no bowl in 1974.We also NEVER had a #1 vs. #2 matchup in a bowl game under Switzer . My point about that? Could we have beaten TOSU ourselves?I honestly don't know .In 1985 could we have beaten Miami in the OB with Jamelle? Doubtful as we were unable to in 'the next OB.Even Barry admits winning NCs in his day was easier than todat.

I f you can not see Barry is just as flawed a coach as Bob you are clearly biased and evidence means NOTHING to you. IT IS LIKE TRYING TO REASON WITH MY 2YR. OLD AND iI AM DONE.

XingTR- You are right Barry is King of close games but he still had flaws,obviously.

[Leroy Lizard]

Barry finished in the top-3 nine times. Stoops, four.

BTW, Barry coached 16 seasons, not 17.

Stoops gets more credit for turning a program around. But Barry's teams seemed to be better prepared for the big games.

As for the Miami games, we lost our starting QB in the first one and didn't have Casillas, and we played without our starting QB in the third. Yet all three were good games. The Arkansas game was played in heavy rain and OU seemed to have considerable traction problems throughout the night (especially Sims). In terms of embarrassing play, Barry is the better coach.

[MyT Oklahoma]

Corrections. Penn State was ranked Number 1 in the 1986 Orange Bowl. And we were ranked Number 1 and Miami was ranked Number 2 in the 1988 Orange Bowl.

[Leroy Lizard]

I NEVER Said USC did not dominate us.I did however say that as HEAVY favorites Barry's boys were dominated by a depleted Hawg squad which was missing THREE OFFENSIVE starters.Was the USC dominance greater than the Arky?Proably,BUT who cares!(that is a staement not a question)

There is no probably about it. One game featured a wishbone team playing in the rain and turning the ball over. The other featured what looked like USC playing a local high school team. Laying an egg is one thing, looking like you don't even belong in the same division of football is another.

And don't forget that West Virginia did the same thing to us. And we got completely creamed by KSU in a conference championship game in which we were heavily favored.

The only drawback I see to Stoops' teams are the times in which they don't look prepared at all. Somehow, his players get the jitters in big games too often. Not sure why. Losing is one thing, but at least look like you practiced.

Take the BYU game. I don't fault the team or coaches for losing. That's life. What I find troubling is all the times in which I scratched my head wondering "What the Hell is he (player or coach) thinking?" I just don't remember doing that with Switzer. We just seem to commit more mental gaffes now than in Barry's days.

[Sabanball]

Corrections. Penn State was ranked Number 1 in the 1986 Orange Bowl. And we were ranked Number 1 and Miami was ranked Number 2 in the 1988 Orange Bowl.

You still won the NC in '85 by default. If Miami had won the same evening in New Orleans, THEY would have won it. Kinda ironic, but I've always thought your '86 and '87 teams were actually better and much more dominant than your championship team that season.

I think this whole argument is silly. I don't think you can compare Barry and Bob. They coached in different eras and each was/is unique in his own way. Barry had the amazing record against NU but he was close to .500 against Texas, and he never beat USC in multiple tries. OTOH, he owned Bobby Bowden. Bob has a losing record in bcs games, but AGAIN HOW MANY HAS HE GOTTEN YOUR TEAM TO? And his winning percentage and home field record are nothing short of amazing, and I think his record against Texas is pretty dang good. You should be glad to have had both of them.

[Leroy Lizard]

You still won the NC in '85 by default.

I don't believe in that crap. You either win it, or you don't. After all, in 5 of 8 national titles Bama won they needed another team to lose at some point in the season.

The 1987 team was more dominant than the 1985 team until Holieway got hurt. Then not so much.

Interesting blurb from Wiki:


In addition to the 12 championships claimed by the university, the NCAA recognizes Alabama as National Champions for the 1945, 1966, 1967, and 1977 college football seasons. However, those championships are not claimed by Alabama.[5][6]

I didn't know the NCAA recognized National Champions.

[Sabanball]

I don't believe in that crap. You either win it, or you don't. After all, in 5 of 8 national titles Bama won they needed another team to lose at some point in the season.

The 1987 team was more dominant than the 1985 team until Holieway got hurt. Then not so much.

Interesting blurb from Wiki:



I didn't know the NCAA recognized National Champions.

I come here to talk about Oklahoma football--not my team--if you wanna do that, let's go over to Tidefans. I'm not denying that you legitimately won the NC in '85--hell, I lived in the state at that time and was flipping cartwheels when Lydell Carr had that long td run that sealed the deal. But....I also remember a Miami team with better athletes coming to Norman that year and clocking OU--notwithstanding Troy's broken leg. By failing to impress AP voters to the tune of 7-35 in the Sugar Bowl they LOST a NC. That's all I am saying.

Back on topic--You are VERY fortunate to have Bob. He is a great coach and I think you've still got NC's in front of you with him at the helm. This season is even still in play and you guys can still win out and probably get in the BCS title game. All I'm saying is be thankful for what you've got and quit complaining.

[soon3rfan]

I havent liked our offensive game plan since we lost Leach and Mangino. I think we need a new offensive co.

[MichiganSooner]

A couple big differences between Stoops era and Switzer era are the BCS format and recruiting. When Switzer was coach he won national titles for 1.) an outstanding season and 2.) reputation of Big 8 and OU. The titles were based on votes. Not games between number 1 and number 2. Not saying that he did not win some very huge games but when 1 plays 2. one of the 2 is going to lose. And with the recruiting, I do not recall when the NCAA set up limitations on numbers of players but it is a fact that OU, Nebraska, Notre Dame, Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Alabama, USC, Texas and a few others had stockpiles of the best players in the country. Now, Stoops gets 85 just like any other team.

[MichiganSooner]

Tonight Sam couldn't get started because guys kept dropping stuff they should've caught. If they were making those catches, I doubt BYU would've pinned the ears back and come after him. We'd have the W, he'd have his arm, and I'd be a much happier camper.

Doesn't take many drops to cause our offense to implode. They sap our confidence, inflate the other teams', and get our defense on the field instead of our offense.

Or am I flat-out crazy? I'll accept that possibility.

You may be flat out crazy but then so am I. We were really hurting without Jermaine and Madu out there with Broyles and Demarco catching throws.

[Sooner04]

You still won the NC in '85 by default. If Miami had won the same evening in New Orleans, THEY would have won it. Kinda ironic, but I've always thought your '86 and '87 teams were actually better and much more dominant than your championship team that season.
Very true. The '86 team had one of the two best defenses in the history of the school. They mauled everybody, but had the rough task of trying to beat Miami in the Orange Bowl in September. Tough luck there.

Gotta take them when you get them. Switzer had several teams that were better than the '75 team, but they sneaked their way into the hardware.

[Leroy Lizard]

I also remember a Miami team with better athletes coming to Norman that year and clocking OU--notwithstanding Troy's broken leg.

We lost our starting QB and had to replace him with a true freshman who had only been on campus a matter of weeks. (Had he played at all prior to the Miami game?) Our best player Casillas also didn't play.

Besides, when Aikman was hurt early in the second quarter he had already completed 6 of 8 passes for 131 yards. Somehow there is weird sense out there that Miami had their way with OU all day, but Aikman was absolutely blistering the Miami defense until he got hurt.

Did Miami have better players? Yeah, if your team leaders on defense and offense go out with injury. If your star QB is replaced by a true freshman with essentially no experience, sure.


By failing to impress AP voters to the tune of 7-35 in the Sugar Bowl they LOST a NC. That's all I am saying

Yeah, it's tough to impress AP voters when you have two losses and another team only has one.

[sooneron]

1975 Seriously? I'd say we made a pretty good comeback that year.

3 NC's from 1974 - 1985

You might like Bob better (I totally like Bob), but don't try to make Barry look bad to defend him.

Jeez, you're not very good at looking at a post for what it is, a counterpoint. I merely and easily pointed out that Barry had his games where his team fielded a stinker.
Therefore, I don't have to MAKE Barry look bad, I pulled up games that we lost which we shouldn't have lost.:rolleyes:
I don't like one coach over the other. I grew up in Norman and there were a LOT of rumblings about getting rid of Barry c. 1982.
I'm sorry you don't remember them or weren't alive at the time. Unlike some people, I have the ability to be pragmatic about this subject. People do remember the past in a much more positive light. It's called nostalgia. [shakes head walking away]

[Curly Bill]

I havent liked our offensive game plan since we lost Leach and Mangino. I think we need a new offensive co.

For your first post you show much potential.

[Sooner24]

1) The Arkie game wasn't near as bad as the USC game.

2) The Washington game they were tied up going into the fourth quarter

3) Not as close as the score indicated? What are you talking about? It was tied up at half. Miami "dominated" OU by outgaining them by 25 yards of total offense.

Barry was 3-3 in NC games. Bob is 1-3

1) Final score wise maybe not but the beat down was every bit as bad a USC.

2) If Bob should be winning these games then Barry should have too.

3) We never came close to winning this game. If we had not run the fumblerooski the final score would not even have been as close as it was.

Just from reading this thread, up to this point, I am guessing most of you didn't live through the Switzer years and are just going off of what the final score in some of these games were.

[Zing]

I remember, watching the game, being frustrated at a couple of things.

1) Not passing in the first half when we had Bradford in the game. It seemed like over and over we had our run-only 3 and outs.

2) Passing a lot once Landry was in the game. That seemed like almost a panicked reaction, as I had difficulty understanding the "don't throw with the Heisman winner, throw with the greenhorn" logic.

I'd like to think there's a reason that I'm not seeing for the kind of plays that were called. Or maybe I'm just hoping there is. After all, Stoops has me beat on national championships, unless we're counting ones I've got in the NCAA Xbox games. Of course, if we're counting those, then let's go ahead and include all of those times I beat Texas 112-0. Woot.

[Leroy Lizard]

1) Final score wise maybe not but the beat down was every bit as bad a USC.

Are you kidding me? The score at the half when we played Arkie was 14-0. I actually had hope that OU would climb back in it. The USC game was over at halftime and I don't even think the players wanted to come back out of the locker room. We looked absolutely, totally inept against USC. A complete laughing stock. Possibly the most embarrassing game of all time for OU. Far, far worse than in 1978.

[prrriiide]

We looked absolutely, totally inept against USC. A complete laughing stock. Possibly the most embarrassing game of all time for OU. Far, far worse than in 1978.

Agreed.

It's really a very simple thing. If you can't make 3 yards in 4 plays running the ball, you don't deserve the points. When you have the ball inside the x-tra point line, you pound the hell out of it until you get it in.

My wife isn't so fond of that technique, but that's another subject...

[Sooner24]

Are you kidding me? The score at the half when we played Arkie was 14-0. I actually had hope that OU would climb back in it. The USC game was over at halftime and I don't even think the players wanted to come back out of the locker room. We looked absolutely, totally inept against USC. A complete laughing stock. Possibly the most embarrassing game of all time for OU. Far, far worse than in 1978.

Not kidding.

We also looked totally inept against Arkansas that night. While the final score was not as bad the beat down was.

I would nominate the 1997 A&M game as the more embarrassing OU games of all time. A&M didn't have any Heisman type players on the field that night and weren't 12-0 when we played them.

[Sooner24]

Don't get me wrong, Bob's a good coach. And I can't think of anyone who could replace him and do a better job. But I swear, we have had some really strange games with him running the program.

The USC blow out, losing multiple national championship games which we coulda, shoulda, woulda won on a normal day.
Losing at home to the Pokes - Not just losing, but our d-backs getting toasted on play action series after series.
Losing BCS bowl game after BCS bowl game.
And I swear, I SWEAR we give up third and long more than any team I've ever seen. Infuriating!!
Our back-up QB's never get playing time until something happens like tonight.

It's just strange to me. How we can be so good and then choke so much!

Switzer had his flaws. And he might have had losses like this from time to time. But oddities like tonight are pretty common with Stoops' system. I don't know what it is, but you can tell when it is about to happen. Mid-way through the first quarter of a season opener.

All I can think of is 2 yards. First and goal at the 2 and you can't get 2 yards?!! And the illegal motion penalties are inexcusable.

Did it look something like what happened in the 1983 Nebraska game?

Both defenses took over, and neither team could score, as the Sooners stayed with the Huskers. As the clock ticked down, Oklahoma took the ball across midfield and had moved to a second down-and-one at the Nebraska one-yard line in the final minute. After a motion penalty moved the Sooners back to the six. Bradley was then sacked for a loss of three by Bill Weber to set up a third-and-four situation, which saw cornerback Neil Harris knock away Bradley's pass.

Does this sound like what you were talking about? Old Barry's team never did anything like that. Gee can't score from the one and a motion penelty to boot. :rolleyes:

And talk about strange games I rember being in the stands when a 5-5 Iowa State team tied us at home. I was in the stands in Columbia Missouri in 1983 when a 7-5 Tiger team shut us out 10-0 to end our, at the time, NCAA record for scoring in consecutive games. I was soaked to the bone when Stanford killed us in the rain. I was there when we couldn't kick an extra point to beat Texas in 1976. The first lose I ever witnessed was Kansas beating us at home 23-3.

I love Barry Switzer but some of you people know not of which you speak.

[C&CDean]

Threads like this is why I can't hardly stomach the football board anymore.

1. Everybody in the stadium knew what Switzer was gonna run. Everybody. The only drama was whether the fullback was gonna get it, the QB was gonna keep it, or the tailback was gonna get the pitch. I remember Switzer teams laying the ball on the ground 7-8 times a game. It was a different era.

2. We never should have been in a position that "poor coaching" could be blamed by so many nimrods. The players have to have some accountability here. Our O-line looked like a Keystone Cops version of some high school football team's first practice. All you numbskulls are trying to pin this loss on one or two key plays/decisions. When you shoot yourself in the foot/balls/face multiple times in almost every series you possess the ball by pure boneheaded penalties, then there's not any coach in the country good enough to "call the right plays."

My only beef with our coaching was late in the game when they had Landry throw the ball 7 out of 8 plays. In hindsight, I think they realized that our O-line couldn't find their dick with both hands and thought throwing it quick was the only way to move the ball at all.

I honestly think this team (and several other Stoops teams) suffer from the "I believe my own press" syndrome. They think all they've gotta do is show up, and the other guys are gonna cower in fear. I'm not sure what a coach has to do to get collectively inside a bunch of players' heads to inspire them to play with poise, discipline and tenacity on every single ****ING play. In fact, there's not a lot a coach can do if the players aren't willing to man up and play like they practice.

And I will join some others when I say most of you guys are spoiled little pissants who really don't remember, or didn't live through a generation or two of Sooner football. We've lost worse to a lot worse teams in our history. When we run off the next 8-9 games all you guys will be slobbering each others' knobs. Meh.

[Partial Qualifier]

Kinda ironic, but I've always thought your '86 and '87 teams were actually better and much more dominant than your championship team that season.



How do you know so much about 80's-era OU football?



And you're exactly correct, btw. In my opinion anyway.


edit: oh, I see why. :D


hell, I lived in the state at that time and was flipping cartwheels when Lydell Carr had that long td run that sealed the deal.

[RedstickSooner]

The King always said football came down to one thing, and one thing only: Recruiting.

Fact is, our program doesn't recruit as well as some of the other elites, yet we still manage to win a hell of a lot of games. Now, I'm not about to deny that you can make an argument for bad coaching -- like the fact that the longer teams have to prepare for us, the worse we do -- but still, to win as much as we win with the players we get seems to imply that either we're *insanely good* at recruiting (meaning, we're recruiting the best players in the nation, the recruiting services just aren't as good at evaluating talent as we are) or our coaches are good at coaching up and using those players.

Either way, it's a great staff, and there are precious few I'd be willing to accept as substitutes. (Saban, Peteyboy, Leach, Pope Urban).

C'mon. We've got Bob Stoops. He's one of the best in the biz. And winning a title is hard -- Bob's mentor only managed it once in that decade of dominance he had with the Gators.

The King gave us a better feeling as fans because with his offenses, you always knew you could win, no matter what happened. Stoops' offenses, even at their best, can be sabotaged. The wishbone, run right, couldn't really be stopped. It was its own worst enemy with fumbles and dropped pitches, and it took Miami's speed to finally provide some kind of consistent answer to the attack.

Anyhow, as pissed off as I am about this loss, we've got one of the best coaching staffs in the country. Even the great ones lose, and that's hard as hell to accept.

[Sooner24]

The King always said football came down to one thing, and one thing only: Recruiting.

Fact is, our program doesn't recruit as well as some of the other elites, yet we still manage to win a hell of a lot of games. Now, I'm not about to deny that you can make an argument for bad coaching -- like the fact that the longer teams have to prepare for us, the worse we do -- but still, to win as much as we win with the players we get seems to imply that either we're *insanely good* at recruiting (meaning, we're recruiting the best players in the nation, the recruiting services just aren't as good at evaluating talent as we are) or our coaches are good at coaching up and using those players.

Either way, it's a great staff, and there are precious few I'd be willing to accept as substitutes. (Saban, Peteyboy, Leach, Pope Urban).

C'mon. We've got Bob Stoops. He's one of the best in the biz. And winning a title is hard -- Bob's mentor only managed it once in that decade of dominance he had with the Gators.

The King gave us a better feeling as fans because with his offenses, you always knew you could win, no matter what happened. Stoops' offenses, even at their best, can be sabotaged. The wishbone, run right, couldn't really be stopped. It was its own worst enemy with fumbles and dropped pitches, and it took Miami's speed to finally provide some kind of consistent answer to the attack.

Anyhow, as pissed off as I am about this loss, we've got one of the best coaching staffs in the country. Even the great ones lose, and that's hard as hell to accept.

Quit making sense you will scare a lot of people on this board. :eek:

[TexasLidig8r]

The King always said football came down to one thing, and one thing only: Recruiting.

Fact is, our program doesn't recruit as well as some of the other elites, yet we still manage to win a hell of a lot of games. Now, I'm not about to deny that you can make an argument for bad coaching -- like the fact that the longer teams have to prepare for us, the worse we do -- but still, to win as much as we win with the players we get seems to imply that either we're *insanely good* at recruiting (meaning, we're recruiting the best players in the nation, the recruiting services just aren't as good at evaluating talent as we are) or our coaches are good at coaching up and using those players.

Actually, OU is always in the Top 10 and more often than not, in the Top 5 of recruiting every year.

Either way, it's a great staff, and there are precious few I'd be willing to accept as substitutes. (Saban, Peteyboy, Leach, Pope Urban).

Your staff used to be insanely good. Leach.. Mangino.. Mike Stoops... in some ways, comparable to the staff that Jimmuh Johnson had at the Cowbags in the early 90s.

C'mon. We've got Bob Stoops. He's one of the best in the biz. And winning a title is hard -- Bob's mentor only managed it once in that decade of dominance he had with the Gators.

Agreed. You need to stay healthy... your team needs to stay focused.. and you need some good luck.

The King gave us a better feeling as fans because with his offenses, you always knew you could win, no matter what happened. Stoops' offenses, even at their best, can be sabotaged. The wishbone, run right, couldn't really be stopped. It was its own worst enemy with fumbles and dropped pitches, and it took Miami's speed to finally provide some kind of consistent answer to the attack.

Speed stopped the bone. You put 8 in the box, attack the edges.

Anyhow, as pissed off as I am about this loss, we've got one of the best coaching staffs in the country. Even the great ones lose, and that's hard as hell to accept.

You used to have a great coaching staff. Now, there are question marks. When was the last time you can honestly say that Venables was able to make in game adjustments that were outcome determinative. Hell, look what Greg Davis' play calling did last year during the Texas game. Venables could not come up with an appropriate defensive scheme to shut down our 4 wide out game plan.

Also, remember how the Sooner fanbase used to take great joy in ragging on Texas as being "soft." Well, when Texas gets the ball inside the 5 yard line, we bring in a big running back (Cody Johnson).. put a big fullback in front of him (which could include a quicker defensive lineman... see, Roy Miller last year) and say.. "we're going to ram it down your throats.. stop us if you can." You do that last year against Florida.. or this year against BYU... do you lose either of those games?

[Soonersince57]

You used to have a great coaching staff. Now, there are question marks. When was the last time you can honestly say that Venables was able to make in game adjustments that were outcome determinative. Hell, look what Greg Davis' play calling did last year during the Texas game. Venables could not come up with an appropriate defensive scheme to shut down our 4 wide out game plan.

Also, remember how the Sooner fanbase used to take great joy in ragging on Texas as being "soft." Well, when Texas gets the ball inside the 5 yard line, we bring in a big running back (Cody Johnson).. put a big fullback in front of him (which could include a quicker defensive lineman... see, Roy Miller last year) and say.. "we're going to ram it down your throats.. stop us if you can." You do that last year against Florida.. or this year against BYU... do you lose either of those games?

Crap. I'm going to kill myself. Some of this makes sense.

[TXBOOMER]

Jeez, you're not very good at looking at a post for what it is, a counterpoint. I merely and easily pointed out that Barry had his games where his team fielded a stinker.
Therefore, I don't have to MAKE Barry look bad, I pulled up games that we lost which we shouldn't have lost.:rolleyes:
I don't like one coach over the other. I grew up in Norman and there were a LOT of rumblings about getting rid of Barry c. 1982.
I'm sorry you don't remember them or weren't alive at the time. Unlike some people, I have the ability to be pragmatic about this subject. People do remember the past in a much more positive light. It's called nostalgia. [shakes head walking away]

My bad. I read the title of the thread. Then I read your post. Surely with your ability to be pragmatic you can see how I came to my conclusion. Boomer!

[sooneron]

You used to have a great coaching staff. Now, there are question marks. When was the last time you can honestly say that Venables was able to make in game adjustments that were outcome determinative. Hell, look what Greg Davis' play calling did last year during the Texas game. Venables could not come up with an appropriate defensive scheme to shut down our 4 wide out game plan.



Actually, the other night BV did make an adjustment on the blitz packages that made it more difficult for Hall to pick it up in the 2nd half. I was in shock.:eek:

[Tear Down This Wall]

I honestly think this team (and several other Stoops teams) suffer from the "I believe my own press" syndrome. They think all they've gotta do is show up, and the other guys are gonna cower in fear. I'm not sure what a coach has to do to get collectively inside a bunch of players' heads to inspire them to play with poise, discipline and tenacity on every single ****ING play.

I've discussed this with several fellow Sooner fans since 2005. You have guys standing on the sidelines, collecting ring from championships, but not playing. Then, when they've got to step in and deliver...bang, they're dust. Paper Tigers living off their recruiting rankings.

Also, I think Bob Stoops and Mack Brown traded souls after we shut them out in 2004. Mack will now fire coaches, or get them to resign, and replace them. I don't think Stoops has ever fired a coach.

Finally, I'm tired of the position shuffling. I couldn't believe we had no other linemen who could play center, so we had to throw Brody in there for a game. I mean, seriously, what the f'n Sam Hill are James Patton and Kevin Wilson being paid to do? Their starting center goes down and they're having to take a tight end to fill in? What is this crap?

It's crap! We've got tons of linemen on the roster. The backup shouldn't be a damn tight end. How many scholarship linemen were standing on the sideline with their thumbs in their butts while Brody Eldridge was out there trying to play center for the first time in his life?

F'n ridiculous. Patton and Wilson need to pull their heads out and get crackin'.

[Sooner24]

You used to have a great coaching staff. Now, there are question marks. When was the last time you can honestly say that Venables was able to make in game adjustments that were outcome determinative. Hell, look what Greg Davis' play calling did last year during the Texas game. Venables could not come up with an appropriate defensive scheme to shut down our 4 wide out game plan.

Also, remember how the Sooner fanbase used to take great joy in ragging on Texas as being "soft." Well, when Texas gets the ball inside the 5 yard line, we bring in a big running back (Cody Johnson).. put a big fullback in front of him (which could include a quicker defensive lineman... see, Roy Miller last year) and say.. "we're going to ram it down your throats.. stop us if you can." You do that last year against Florida.. or this year against BYU... do you lose either of those games?

And yet with all of that we have still won more Big 12 titles in the last three years then Texas has since the Big 12's inception. :D

[the_ouskull]

You used to have a great coaching staff. Now, there are question marks. When was the last time you can honestly say that Venables was able to make in game adjustments that were outcome determinative. Hell, look what Greg Davis' play calling did last year during the Texas game. Venables could not come up with an appropriate defensive scheme to shut down our 4 wide out game plan.

Also, remember how the Sooner fanbase used to take great joy in ragging on Texas as being "soft." Well, when Texas gets the ball inside the 5 yard line, we bring in a big running back (Cody Johnson).. put a big fullback in front of him (which could include a quicker defensive lineman... see, Roy Miller last year) and say.. "we're going to ram it down your throats.. stop us if you can." You do that last year against Florida.. or this year against BYU... do you lose either of those games?

I really, REALLY wish you hadn't made the "OU is becoming Tejas" comparisons. Now I have to come up with a new topic for my annual OU / Tejas post. I hate your face.

the_ouskull

[gotpoi73]

4th qtr, 4th n goal from the 1. CAN NOT have a delay of game penalty. the coaches were ill-prepared. at that point in the game a 6 point lead is no better than 3. not to be a pessimist, but when we settled for 3, it just felt like we were going to lose by a point

[kingsby]

And yet with all of that we have still won more Big 12 titles in the last three years then Texas has since the Big 12's inception. :D

Is this really what we are now hanging our hats on ?

I hate Texas but here are some facts that drive me crazy

I would say in the last 5 years maybe more.

Texas has more BCS wins

Texas has more come from behind victories

Texas has had two WTF losses (K-state) ; OU has had about 6 or 7 and unfortunately two of those were in the Fiesta Bowl.

I just think this coaching staff is getting too complacent, lost its hunger. Not sure how to explain it, but it seem like the coaches should be able to pull out 1 maybe 2 wins a year when the team plays like crap

[CBUS_SOONER]

Bob is no Barry. Barry cheated more and let players act like idiots.

[BoulderSooner79]

Bob is Bob and Barry is Barry. Sorry for any confusion.

[StoopTroup]

Texas has more BCS wins

Texas has more come from behind victories

Texas has had two WTF losses (K-state) ; OU has had about 6 or 7 and unfortunately two of those were in the Fiesta Bowl.



Every time I see a texas expert pop on the board leads me to believe they are completely in love with whorns. Not "I hate texas as much as anybody else".

Defending the longwhorn program over a program that has been to the big show more than mack brown is asinine.

Seriously...quit going after good posters with stuff like that that doesn't hold water. We're about Championships. Bob has 6 Big XII Championships. He doesn't count ties like mack either.

[ashley]

I was TV and someone hit the nail on the head. " Everyone is an offensive or defensive cordinator."

[wishbonesooner]

Well, I have been around awhile, went to my first Sooner game in 1963. Call me a pissant dean, 'cause I hate to break the news to you, Bob has been getting his *** handed to him with regularity the last few years. Yeah players have to perform, but so do coaches. When we come out and look lost in big game after big game, that's not a coincidence anymore. When we play a team that isn't intimidated by Oklahoma, when they hit us in the mouth, more often than not, we implode. I hate it just like you do, but sometimes, you have to say it like you see it. I don't know Bob Stoops, but there was a day when he accepted nothing less than max effort, from his coaches and players. It sure doesn't seem like he's getting that lately, and lots of us that have stood by the Sooners for many, many years are scratching our heads.

[ashley]

Uh, did you notice that we lost the best QB in the nation in the first half and the best pass catching TE college ball did not suit up. Did you know the wholr dynamics of a team changes if the QB goes out?

[cvsooner]

I honestly think this team (and several other Stoops teams) suffer from the "I believe my own press" syndrome. They think all they've gotta do is show up, and the other guys are gonna cower in fear. I'm not sure what a coach has to do to get collectively inside a bunch of players' heads to inspire them to play with poise, discipline and tenacity on every single ****ING play. In fact, there's not a lot a coach can do if the players aren't willing to man up and play like they practice.


This is it right here in a nutshell. What's been missing since Mike left is the ability to motivate young men. I love Bob Stoops. I think he's a great coach. But his demeanor is almost too businesslike. Occasionally he gets fired up that we can see (such as Tech last year, and look how that turned out).

For a lot of games against a lot of opponents, you've got to keep your cool and play your assignments and be disciplined. For some situations you've got to just let it all hang out. And you need to be able to determine which situation is which. I think that's what we're and have been missing. Not just the motivation, but the ability to know when to turn on the switch.

I don't think Mike Stoops was any kind of defensive genius or a tremendous irreplaceable coach. (Otherwise Arizona would be a lot better than they are.) But what he brought to the coaching staff was a certain...I dunno...fire, for lack of a better word. Stoops doesn't, Wilson doesn't, Venables doesn't. The only one who seems to do so is Gundy, and he's coaching the running backs.

Bob Stoops the coach brought a coolness to Mike's fire, and the two together made something special. Nobody on staff, now, that I can see does that. So we've got, usually, very professional, conscientious, well-prepared teams (Saturday being an exception, but see also 2005 Orange Bowl, 2004 Sugar Bowl, 2007 and 2008 Fiesta Bowls...hell, even Texas last year.)

I don't see it changing unless Stoops can find someone who can light that fire and knows when to light it.

That's what the Pete Carrolls and the Les Miles and the Nick Sabans do. It will be interesting to see if Urban Meyer's success will hinge on what happens after Tebow leaves. He brings the fire to that squad. I know Meyer was successful at Utah, but...we'll see. I think it's also the reason the Jim Tressels and the Joe Paternos have only so much success nowadays at levels comparable to Stoops. Mack Brown, for all his ineptitude, has been able to find coordinators (at least on defense) who have been able to brng it. It only takes one guy to get the rest of that going.

I think that's why Switzer, for all his success in the 70s, didn't have any more until the 80s when he found players like the Boz and Casillas and Holieway. They didn't need much motivation, but they got what they needed.

I can't ever see Stoops making a speech like Switzer. It's just not his nature. Clearly he can get angry but that seems to be the only motivation there...don't make coach mad.

I also think there's a certain amount of second-guessing going on even on the staff. They're not dolts: they're quite good at what they do. They can see, they can read, they hear things too. They've had a lot of success but there are times that success gets in the way. They'll play the percentages, they'll take the 'smart' play (instead of the 'right' one), and players get tentative too. Admittedly, taking chances can blow up in your face too (a badly timed onside kick in the Fiesta Bowl, or a missed blocking assignment on a fake punt against Texas).

But somehow, some way, Stoops and company have got to find that fire again. I know Mike isn't coming back, but someone like Mike needs to get there, and soon.

Just my two cents.

[Sooner24]

Is this really what we are now hanging our hats on ?

I hate Texas but here are some facts that drive me crazy

I would say in the last 5 years maybe more.

Texas has more BCS wins

Texas has more come from behind victories

Texas has had two WTF losses (K-state) ; OU has had about 6 or 7 and unfortunately two of those were in the Fiesta Bowl.

I just think this coaching staff is getting too complacent, lost its hunger. Not sure how to explain it, but it seem like the coaches should be able to pull out 1 maybe 2 wins a year when the team plays like crap

Notice on stadiums around the country teams list numbers of conference championships they have not how many BCS wins they have. So I would say yes that's what we are hanging our hat on. :pop: