View Full Version : Another final argument, Re: Allen Iverson...

8/19/2009, 04:11 PM
...wow, the hits REALLY just keep on comin'. This guy's worthless...



starclassic tama
8/24/2009, 10:32 PM
jesus christ man you really are the most insecure person on this board. we get it, you are right, A.I. is washed up. he was once one of the best players in the NBA, he will be in the hall of fame, but at this point in his career you are right he is washed up. so before you respond in typical skull fashion with a 1,200 word post that should have taken less than 20 to get your point across, save it. YOU ARE RIGHT. EVERYTHING YOU SAY ABOUT SPORTS IS RIGHT.

8/25/2009, 08:34 AM
One down, X to go. There, that was less that twenty, wasn't it?


Post Script - At least it was for a moment...

Insecure? Hardly. I may have a number; a multitude of issues, even, but insecurity - esteem... not my problems. If it seems like I'm right an inordinate number of times, then, perhaps, there's something to it. Maybe, unlike the majority of people in this world, and on this board, I just don't argue, or even discuss, a topic, unless I have something (accurate, or at least informative) to bring to the table. How that translates to the current topic is thusly: If I thought that Iverson was still a good player, I would either do so silently, or I would, in advance of posting about him, clarify my position. ("He was once great, but he's fallen off lately, but I'm still a fan," etc...) It's throwing out absolute positions ("AI rules!") that gets morons into trouble, because they're easily disproven. This usually leaves the morons in question angry and bitter in regards to their station in life, resulting in posts similar to the one to which I am NOW through responding...

And please believe... If I go over twenty words, it's because I don't run out of sh*t to say after twenty words. Eloquence isn't a curse. Neither, for that matter, is brevity. It's simply a matter of content. When I run out of meaningful sh*t to say, I'm smart enough to stop talking. Take that hint however you will...

starclassic tama
8/25/2009, 05:12 PM
never said AI RULES SIGN AI, or that i'm a fan of his. i said that he might be washed up, but if he isn't than he is a valuable asset to a team in need of scoring because he was a great player who still might have something left in the tank. might want to go back and re-read a few posts.

8/26/2009, 12:24 AM
I shall...

First of all, let's look at what you just said again...

never said AI RULES SIGN AI, or that i'm a fan of his. i said that he might be washed up, but if he isn't than he is a valuable asset to a team in need of scoring because he was a great player who still might have something left in the tank.

So, I went back and re-read some of your posts. In the most recent one, above, you say that you said that he might be washed up and might have something left in the tank. In the same paragraph, however, you also said he is (would be) a valuable asset to a team in need of scoring because he's a great player. So, before we get to the posts of yours that I re-read, let's discuss the most recent one. Which is it? Washed Up or Great Player? You can't be both. (Tracy McGrady trademarked it for himself...)

07/16/09 -- A.I. would instantly be the best player on the clippers team. can anyone really argue that? this wasn't the case in denver and detroit. so if you have a chance to add a hall of famer to your team that isn't very good, you do it, end of story.

Sounds a LOT like you have a man-crush on him. "..instantly be the best player on the Clippers team." Whoa, tiger. Really? I mean, going by PER, the best player on the team is Marcus Camby. But, we're talking a team with an up-and-coming player in Eric Gordon playing the 2, and he needs minutes to develop, and Baron Davis, who is still an All-Star, playing the 1. Also, the whole "instantly better than anyone on the Clippers team" thing contradicts your most recent statement of his perhaps being "washed-up." I re-read that post.

07/17/2009 - dude get real here for a second. griffin will end up being better in the long run, but he will have his rookie struggles like everyone else. he's a lock for ROY, but A.I. is still a great player.

Still a great player? Once again, slow down, sir. Last season, AI's PER was 15.89. The league average is set at 15 each season. (To compare, Lebron led the league last season with a 31.76 PER.) So, to say "great" is to say that the following players, who ranked ahead of A.I. in PER last season, could also qualify as "great" players, based off of their play in the most recent NBA campaign. (There are 108 players in the NBA who qualify, so give me just a second to pick some real "gems," so to speak, k? K.)

- Roy Hibbert
- Andrew Bogut
- Lou Williams
- Marc Gasol
- Renaldo Balkman
- Carl Landry

There are others that are equally painful if you know a bit about basketball, but I'll skip those so as not to confuse you. Come to think of it, that would be an all-around "great" team, wouldn't it? Williams at the 1, Iverson at the 2, Balkman at the 3, Bogut the 4, and Hibbert the 5, with Gasol and Landry off of the bench. I'll throw in another guard... how's about John Salmons? And there we go, we're 8-deep in pure "great"ness.

I'm just saying, throwing that word around like that really devalues it.

07/18/2009 - i should have known better than to try and talk basketball on an OU football forum. you guys are right, BARON DAVIS and a rookie are both better players than the hall of famer allen iverson, and the 19 win clippers would be foolish to try and bring him in.

Dude. Michael Jordan is a Hall-of-Famer too. So is Robert f*cking Parish, for that matter, but you're as high as The Chief if you think that Iverson is still playing anywhere NEAR the level that allowed him to attain his HoF status. Also, Iverson will be 34 years old at the start of the season. Baron Davis will be 30. Eric Gordon will be more than a decade younger than Iverson. So, you can say that Baron Davis isn't a better player than Iverson historically, and I'll agree. But, as for right now... well, one of them has a contract. The other one is Allen Iverson.

07/19/2009 - i know it's just summer league, but griffin might even be better than what people (including myself) thought. the only reason i say that is because i felt like his offensive game was still pretty raw at oklahoma, even though he averaged almost 23 a game. but with the work ethic he has, watch out NBA. i think he has a chance to be better than amare stoudamire, more consistent and for a lot longer.

let's throw out some stats: i'm guessing griffin averages 16.5 points and 9.5 rebounds per game, easily winning ROY.

This contradicts another of your posts, because if Blake put up numbers like that, he would be a better player than Iverson this season. Therefore, Iverson wouldn't "instantly be the best player on the Clippers."

07/21/2009 - if A.I. was so selfish why did he average more assists per game over his career than jordan? and the exact same amount as bird?

I'm actually a little p*ssed at myself for not pouncing on this the first time around, but, REALLY, dude? Really? Did you just brag about Iverson, a point guard and two guard with an absurdly high usage rate, averaging more assists than one of the greatest scorers of all time and the same as a small forward who rarely, if ever, dribbled the ball within a set offense. He had his touches, yes, but he didn't dribble out the shot clock and then hike up a contested 30' footer very often, to be certain. So, congrats to your guard for averaging the same number of assists per game as a forward. Nice work.

This going back and re-reading your posts thing was fun. You should ask me to do it again sometime...


starclassic tama
8/26/2009, 01:18 AM
i also said on the 7/18 that he very well may be washed up. which is it, washed up or still has something left in the tank? i don't know yet until this season is over. unlike you, i wasn't blessed with the ability to see into the future. all signs are pointing to he is likely washed up. but my point is you are acting like the guy has always been some cancer that scored empty meaningless points simply because he shoots the ball so many times and has no mind for the game of basketball or his teammates. early in his career it was closer to true, but his game matured and he was always a great player. you know damn well that last year A.I. wasn't in a good situation, detroit had a better version of A.I. in rip hamilton at his position so to use his PER from last season to support your argument is dumb.

once again lets try and break this down into roughly 20 words.

my stance: A.I. was once great, still could be a valuable asset to some team in the NBA IF (big if) he isn't too far over the hill.

your stance: A.I. is a selfish ball hog who has never cared anything about making his team better and is a cancer to any organized basketball team


8/26/2009, 11:36 AM

First of all, using PER is always accurate because it's pace-adjusted, and measures per-minute stats and not absolute stats. I don't know how much of a better situation an unselfish player could be in than the one Iverson was in last year. Hamilton, Prince, Wallace, Maxiell, McDyess... all vets... all guys who can make things happen without dominating the basketball. Yet, somehow, Iverson couldn't get them the ball. In addition, a 6'5" version of Iverson was waiting in the wings (literally) for some minutes. Also, ironic that you used Hamilton as your example, describing him as a "better version of A.I.," when even though last year was a down year by his usual standards, Hamilton still out-played Iverson.

Hamilton = Efficency
Iverson = Wasteful Possessions

The bottom line is, if Iverson used his powers for good instead of evil, then yes, he would still be an above-average player in the NBA, even if his work ethic, attitude - both on and off of the court, and play all suggest otherwise. But, as he gets older, he reverts more and more back to "what he knows," which is himself.

I have never questioned his mind for the game of basketball. It's his understand of attack angles, leverage, and opponent psychology that has allowed him to overcome what appear to many to be his physical limitations in becoming one of the most dynamic scorers in the history of the N.B.A. His usage rate has also fallen each of the past few season, which means that he's not handling the ball as much as he used to. However, after a spike in PER in the 05-06 (trade me) season, to 26.02, he has fallen back considerably, posting 19.61, 21.06, and last season's 15.89 since then.

He doesn't play well with others, and he never really has. The one time that he was on a team that completely complemented his abilities, he made it to the NBA finals. But, he isn't able to do anything other than what he does. Whenever he's tried, he has 1) failed, and 2) seen his play suffer for it. I think that, at this point in his career, he would be a cancer and then some to the L.A. Clippers; and many other teams around the league. The team that had the best argument to try to grab him, Memphis, has come out and said "no." Shame.

So, in response, no you're not correct. Like Iverson himself, the answer isn't black and white. Doing it in 20 words or less is for people who think that it is. Sorry. I have an argument, not a summary.


8/26/2009, 11:45 AM
Get a room.

8/26/2009, 12:32 PM
He got an offer from Memphis today

8/26/2009, 05:22 PM
Well, they were the only team that (kind of) needed his services, so, if his Twitter post is even true, it makes sense.


8/26/2009, 05:24 PM
and wouldnt you agree that IF he plays the way he can and buys in, he could really help them...IF

8/26/2009, 06:04 PM

8/26/2009, 07:35 PM
Jlew, you are gonna get d*ck punched for being a troll when I see you

starclassic tama
8/26/2009, 09:05 PM
skull, what would it take from iverson this year for you to eat a nice plate of crow? higher PER and 5-10 more wins for the grizzlies?

8/27/2009, 08:38 AM
A miracle.

The Grizzlies also added the #2 overall pick in the draft to their roster, so before you go trying to attribute all of their successes to Iverson, slow down. They also have an up-and-coming star coming off of a RoY-type season in Mayo. (The Gay/Mayo era in Memphis... It's FAN-tastic!)

10+ wins, Iverson shooting 45% or better from the field, Iverson averaging 7 dimes per game, and Iverson's usage rate below 25%. OR... 15+ wins with a usage rate below 22%.

Memphis is the only team that really "needs" him, so we'll have a chance to see what kind of player he's ready to be...

Jlew, you are gonna get d*ck punched for being a troll when I see you

I'm glad that I'm not the only one that thinks that. No way a real person is that ignorant.


8/28/2009, 11:42 AM


8/28/2009, 06:46 PM
THIS THREAD = http://archive.perfectduluthday.com/beating-a-dead-horse.gif

8/28/2009, 10:58 PM
How long have you been sitting on that gif, thinking it's new to the internet, waiting to drop it and bask in the ensuing laughter? A couple of weeks? Have you already used it, and it didn't get seen, so now you're trying it again...?


8/29/2009, 02:11 AM

8/29/2009, 09:00 AM

I was chatting up the noob with the cute gif. I have a few of those too. Here's one...

A new guy, trying to come after my Iverson thread, makes almost as much sense as this:



8/29/2009, 09:34 AM
How long have you been sitting on that gif, thinking it's new to the internet, waiting to drop it and bask in the ensuing laughter? A couple of weeks? Have you already used it, and it didn't get seen, so now you're trying it again...?


On the contrary, judging by the tenor of the post above, my post got my message across exactly as intended.

You certainly do have an active imagination, to go along with your high opinion of yourself. Nevertheless, thanks for the laugh.

starclassic tama
8/29/2009, 10:56 AM
well to whine about "beating a dead horse" on a message board is pretty stupid. it's a DISCUSSION BOARD, with an ONGOING DISCUSSION, with updates being posted relating to the topic of the thread you just clicked on to post that pic.

8/29/2009, 12:35 PM
...and my pic's way better. Not an Office Space knock-off. :D


starclassic tama
9/13/2009, 01:27 PM
leukemia signs with the grizzlies. kinda weird that they would sign someone who has no chance to make their team any better at all and will cause the locker room to gangfight by game 10

9/19/2009, 12:22 AM
No it's not. They need someone who can move tickets. He can. It's a shame he doesn't move the rock the same way. Besides, this is the same team that gave Pau Gasol away, right? Tell me more about how smart their decisions are, idiot.


9/19/2009, 12:30 AM
Like I said Skull, look at the wager I proposed to you, you still want some? :D

9/19/2009, 01:01 PM
Whatever bet you're talking about, if it involves 1) Iverson sucking, relative to his career numbers, and 2) the Grizzlies threatening the record for fewest assists per game in a season, I'm in. O.J. Mayo, Rudy Gay, Zach Randolph, and Iverson...? That's like the f*cking, well, it's like this:


...and they even postulate Randolph's appearance, and then Iverson's appearance, at the end of the first section...

"The most likely event is to have two black holes merge," Lousto says. Next in line is the triple merger, then quadruple merger.

Memphis Grizzlies 2009: The Quadruple Merger of Black Holes!


starclassic tama
9/20/2009, 10:14 PM

mean boy!

9/21/2009, 11:55 AM

9/21/2009, 10:11 PM