Alternative to ObamaCare

[Bourbon St Sooner]

This is an excellent article about an alternative to government run healthcare. It proposes a lot of things that I've espoused on the forum (so of course it's good;)). For you Obama supporters, there's no bashing of Obama, Reid, Pelosi, et al. and no paranoid death panel talk. It's simply an alternative proposal.

Enjoy.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204251404574342170072865070.html

[Turd_Ferguson]

This is an excellent article about an alternative to government run healthcare. It proposes a lot of things that I've espoused on the forum (so of course it's good;)). For you Obama supporters, there's no bashing of Obama, Reid, Pelosi, et al. and no paranoid death panel talk. It's simply an alternative proposal.

Enjoy.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204251404574342170072865070.htmlWh y are you racist:confused:

[Scott D]

I have to give Mackey credit...a sound argument and a good article, right up until he pimps his Austin based company at the very end. ;)

[yermom]

i'm really surprised more companies don't offer a similar benefits package. who else does that other than Starbucks and Whole Paycheck?

[OklahomaTuba]

Cool, so no free medical for illegal aliens, free abortions, or Dear Leader telling people if they can live or die? Sign me up!

[LosAngelesSooner]

I felt my previous response to one of Tuba's mis-information campaigns was an appropriate way to address this, his latest.

But then I felt the need to deep six him a little more. So if you've already read this quote, you can skip to the links at the bottom.

Cool, so:
1) no free medical for illegal aliens
2) free abortions
or
3) Dear Leader telling people if they can live or die?
Sign me up!
^^^ Everyone take a good look at this.

This is what is wrong with the Republican Party right now. Our "Base" are people who actually believe stuff like this. People who believe in the Kenyan birth certificate scare, people who believe in "Death Panels" no matter HOW many times that crazy theory has been shot down BY REPUBLICANS. People who are joining MILITIAS. People who are becoming "Sovereign Citizens." People who bring GUNS to town hall meetings. People who will either directly participate in or indirectly support/endorse/fan the flames that cause OTHER people to perpetrate another disaster like the Oklahoma City Bombing.

It's liars who perpetuate lies and outrage and fear and hate.

We need to take our party back from crazy tin foil hat wearing wingnuts who believe things like this or we will get it handed to us again...and again...and again and POSSIBLY even face another Waco/OKC Bombing/etc.

Book it.

__________________________________________________ _________________________

More info for the intellectually curious:

Death Panel Shot Down - http://factcheck.org/2009/07/false-euthanasia-claims/
Glen Beck Cash For Clunkers Shot Down - http://factcheck.org/2009/08/cash-for-clunkers/
Government Funded Abortions Shot Down - http://factcheck.org/2009/08/abortion-and-the-health-care-bills/
and here
http://factcheck.org/2009/07/surgery-for-seniors-vs-abortions/
Dying on a Wait List Shot Down - http://factcheck.org/2009/08/dying-on-a-wait-list/
Health Care for Illegal Immigrants Shot Down - http://factcheck.org/2009/07/misleading-gop-health-care-claims/

ALL of these lies of Tuba's shot down by a non-partisan, third party fact checking organization.

Ball's in your court, Tuba.

:pop:

[LosAngelesSooner]

Tuba?





Tuuuuuuuuuuuba????


You were here a second ago. You were still viewing this page.

Where did you go?






TUUUUUUUUBBBBBAAAAAAAA?!?!?!


:D

[MrJimBeam]

I
This is what is wrong with the Republican Party right now. Our "Base" are people who actually believe stuff like this. People who believe in the Kenyan birth certificate scare, people who believe in "Death Panels" no matter HOW many times that crazy theory has been shot down BY REPUBLICANS. People who are joining MILITIAS. People who are becoming "Sovereign Citizens." People who bring GUNS to town hall meetings. People who will either directly participate in or indirectly support/endorse/fan the flames that cause OTHER people to perpetrate another disaster like the Oklahoma City Bombing.

It's liars who perpetuate lies and outrage and fear and hate.

We need to take our party back from crazy tin foil hat wearing wingnuts who believe things like this or we will get it handed to us again...and again...and again and POSSIBLY even face another Waco/OKC Bombing/etc.

Book it.



This is not the "Base" of the party and you're silly if you think it is. The people you mentioned above would just as soon blow up Neo-Conservatives as they would ATF agents. They have as big a disagreement with the editors of the Weekly Standard as they do with the New York Times. The folks at MSNBC want you to believe the crazies are the base, but the base is over at the Heritage Foundation.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Well, I was hoping this would be a rational discussion on health care rather than another Tuba-LAS hysteria fest.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

i'm really surprised more companies don't offer a similar benefits package. who else does that other than Starbucks and Whole Paycheck?


I agree, I'd much rather have that type of system rather than the HMO I'm in where I have to change doctors every other year because their damn network changes.

Actually, I think we should get away from employer provided healthcare entirely, but not trade it out for gov't provided health care.

[Scott D]

Well, I was hoping this would be a rational discussion on health care rather than another Tuba-LAS hysteria fest.

that's like hoping that politicians won't be complete *********s. ;)

[Scott D]

I agree, I'd much rather have that type of system rather than the HMO I'm in where I have to change doctors every other year because their damn network changes.

Actually, I think we should get away from employer provided healthcare entirely, but not trade it out for gov't provided health care.

The problem is nobody is interested in finding the happy medium.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

The problem is nobody is interested in finding the happy medium.

Exactly. Instead of having a real debate on options to reform the health care system, we seem to have one option or no options. And these town halls (actually our entire political discourse) have turned into a macrocosm of the LAS-Tuba scream fest.

[OklahomaTuba]

Exactly. Instead of having a real debate on options to reform the health care system, we seem to have one option or no options. And these town halls (actually our entire political discourse) have turned into a macrocosm of the LAS-Tuba scream fest.Well, to be clear, I was just saying I would be all happy with reform, as most people would be, just without some of the crazy crap being proposed.

But then I get attacked for pointing out stuff that's actually being proposed.

Of course, this whole debate isn't about health care, its about gov control. That's why Dear Leader is in such a panicked rush to get it done before he loses congress and is voted out in 3 years.

[49r]

Tuba's posts could - in general - be so much better if he would just leave off the last sentence or two. But he's always gotta fire off a "Dear leader" or two in every post seems like.

Takes every post from being cogent and rational into the crazy and paranoid zone every time. I suppose that's what frustrates LAS so much.

[KC//CRIMSON]

Tuba's posts could - in general - be so much better if he would just leave off the last sentence or two. But he's always gotta fire off a "Dear leader" or two in every post seems like.

Takes every post from being cogent and rational into the crazy and paranoid zone every time.


Well there's that, plus the fact he's just bat schit crazy.

[LosAngelesSooner]

But then I get attacked for pointing out stuff that's actually being proposed.

Of course, this whole debate isn't about health care, its about gov control. That's why Dear Leader is in such a panicked rush to get it done before he loses congress and is voted out in 3 years.
More info for the intellectually curious:

Death Panel Shot Down - http://factcheck.org/2009/07/false-euthanasia-claims/
Glen Beck Cash For Clunkers Shot Down - http://factcheck.org/2009/08/cash-for-clunkers/
Government Funded Abortions Shot Down - http://factcheck.org/2009/08/abortion-and-the-health-care-bills/
and here
http://factcheck.org/2009/07/surgery-for-seniors-vs-abortions/
Dying on a Wait List Shot Down - http://factcheck.org/2009/08/dying-on-a-wait-list/
Health Care for Illegal Immigrants Shot Down - http://factcheck.org/2009/07/misleading-gop-health-care-claims/



You keep spreadin' lies, Tuba. I'll keep shootin' 'em down. :pop:

[LosAngelesSooner]

Well there's that, plus the fact he's just bat schit crazy.And a bald faced liar.

[mdklatt]

This is not the "Base" of the party and you're silly if you think it is.

You might want to tell all the Republican politicians who are not only failing to keep these crazy idiots under control but are actively encouraging them in some cases. The even scarier possibility is that some of those politicians actually believe the **** they're peddaling.

[mdklatt]

And a bald faced liar.

I think Tuba's more of your classic "useful idiot". He's just spreading other people's lies.

[GrapevineSooner]

Tuba suffers from ODS.

Just like all those morons on the left who suffered from BDS these last 8 years.

[The Remnant]

Yes. Tuba does not know what he is talking about. Obama is our savior. Tuba just does't realize it yet. He should be forced to watch MSNBC and CNN 24-7. No more Fox News. That should do the trick.

[Curly Bill]

I don't think MSNBC is even licking on Obama anymore, except for Richard Madow and the tool of tools Olberman.

[49r]

I think Tuba's more of your classic "useful idiot". He's just spreading other people's lies.

Oh there's no doubt about that, I'm just saying he would have better luck with people taking him seriously if he could just refrain from using hackneyed catchphrases like "dear leader" et cetera.

I remember a Tuba that would start fun threads whining about how hard it was to drive a truck and whatnot...seems like a different Tuba these days.

[LosAngelesSooner]

I think Tuba's more of your classic "useful idiot". He's just spreading other people's lies.Fair enough.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Yes. Tuba does not know what he is talking about. Obama is our savior. Tuba just does't realize it yet. He should be forced to watch MSNBC and CNN 24-7. No more Fox News. That should do the trick.
Thank God you didn't completely miss the point and then overreact or anything. :rolleyes:

[mdklatt]

I remember a Tuba that would start fun threads whining about how hard it was to drive a truck and whatnot...seems like a different Tuba these days.

I think maybe you're confusing Tuba with Jerk? Jerk is the truck driver. Tuba's always been around the bend, but Jerk's only really gone over the edge since the election.

[mdklatt]

Yes. Tuba does not know what he is talking about.

"Death Panels"? Really? Really?

[49r]

I think maybe you're confusing Tuba with Jerk? Jerk is the truck driver. Tuba's always been around the bend, but Jerk's only really gone over the edge since the election.


Ah, you're right. Apologies to both.

Neither one is as fun as dbhuge was though. All those crazy smilies...good times.

[delhalew]

That's a list of ideas i've been supporting for awhile. Somehow thats too complicated for congress.

LA, I have a problem with this..."People who bring GUNS to town hall meetings". You should watch that man from NH make mr.tingles look like a fool on Hardball.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XflE0RMiIiA

You should try calling our great saviour dear leader. It feels good and if the shoe fits...

[LosAngelesSooner]

That's a list of ideas i've been supporting for awhile. Somehow thats too complicated for congress.

LA, I have a problem with this..."People who bring GUNS to town hall meetings". You should watch that man from NH make mr.tingles look like a fool on Hardball.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XflE0RMiIiA

You should try calling our great saviour dear leader. It feels good and if the shoe fits...Except that:
1) Guns have no place in town hall meetings. Only an idiot or trouble maker would bring one there.
2) Chris Mathews made the guy look like the idiot that he is.
3) The shoe doesn't fit and it's a stupid name to call the President.

[yermom]

anti-gun people crack me up. did he get arrested or something? how did he end up on the show? i haven't heard about this guy...

[The Remnant]

Hey LA SOONER. I am still here in California. I got your message telling me to leave if I didn't like California.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Hey LA SOONER. I am still here in California. I got your message telling me to leave if I didn't like California.:rolleyes:

Noobs.

[Curly Bill]

Except that:
1) Guns have no place in town hall meetings. Only an idiot or trouble maker would bring one there.
2) Chris Mathews made the guy look like the idiot that he is.
3) The shoe doesn't fit and it's a stupid name to call the President.

Matthews looked like a hysterical loon. :O

[LosAngelesSooner]

Matthews looked like a hysterical loon. :O...and this is different from how Chris Matthews normally looks...how??

:D

[Curly Bill]

...and this is different from how Chris Matthews normally looks...how??

:D

Good point.

I shoulda said: a bigger than normal hysterical loon.

[olevetonahill]

Tuba's posts could - in general - be so much better if he would just leave off the last sentence or two. But he's always gotta fire off a "Dear leader" or two in every post seems like.

Takes every post from being cogent and rational into the crazy and paranoid zone every time. I suppose that's what frustrates LAS so much.

Zackery I just sent him a spek saying the same thing :D :pop:

[SCOUT]

Except that:
1) Guns have no place in town hall meetings. Only an idiot or trouble maker would bring one there.
2) Chris Mathews made the guy look like the idiot that he is.
3) The shoe doesn't fit and it's a stupid name to call the President.

1) Guns have no place at a Luby's in Kileen, Texas. Only an idiot would bring one there. Of course, if an idiot had brought one there many lives would have been saved.
2) Chris Mathews showed himself to be an agenda driven idiot
3) Agreed

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Tuba's posts could - in general - be so much better if he would just leave off the last sentence or two. But he's always gotta fire off a "Dear leader" or two in every post seems like.

Takes every post from being cogent and rational into the crazy and paranoid zone every time. I suppose that's what frustrates LAS so much.haha, wow!

[LosAngelesSooner]

1) Guns have no place at a Luby's in Kileen, Texas. Only an idiot would bring one there. Of course, if an idiot had brought one there many lives would have been saved.
2) Chris Mathews showed himself to be an agenda driven idiot
3) Agreed
1) A gun was BROUGHT to Luby's in Kileen, Texas...by an idiot...and it had no place there. Also, Luby's, in Kileen Texas, is NOT a public gathering to discuss very emotional issues with many upset people and elected officials. It is not a town hall meeting place. It's a freakin' cafeteria.
2) Sure. But that doesn't change the fact that the doosh he interviewed was just as agenda driven and even more of an idiot.
3) We're in agreement on this point, so no point in discussing it further.

[SCOUT]

1) A gun was BROUGHT to Luby's in Kileen, Texas...by an idiot...and it had no place there. Also, Luby's, in Kileen Texas, is NOT a public gathering to discuss very emotional issues with many upset people and elected officials. It is not a town hall meeting place. It's a freakin' cafeteria.
2) Sure. But that doesn't change the fact that the doosh he interviewed was just as agenda driven and even more of an idiot.
3) We're in agreement on this point, so no point in discussing it further.

1) You're right, a very emotionally and politically charged environment would never have a crazy show up. Thinking that type of environment would be as dangerous as a Luby's is silly. You should read up on the Luby's incident. A customer specifically stated that if it had been legal to bring their gun into the restaurant...
2) The dude he interviewed was just an attendee. He didn't ask for an interview. Chris wanted to make a point and thought that this guy would be his vehicle.

[delhalew]

This man was never in the same building as the president. I f he were to go inside he would have had to check his gun with the secret service. He was not arrested. He was very calm and collected despite mathews yelling and cussing. You could see the disapointment all over mathews' face that he couldn't harass this guy into saying something stupid. AND best of all the sign he was carring was a quote from Jefferson relating to Shea's Rebellion. Totally appropriate.



Read this study from HARVARD. (the last place to expect a study like this).
http://www.theacru.org/blog/2007/05/harvard_study_gun_control_is_counterproductive/

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/493636.html

By all means find some FACTS that discredit these two reputable studies.

[adoniijahsooner]

Chris Matthews makes me wanna puke!!! The execs that allowed him do that are garbage!!!

If I were not a man of deep piety and humilty, I would sit outside that studio with a well-armed militia, just to see Matthews and Olbermann poop themselves.

[Harry Beanbag]

Chris Matthews is a lunatic. I didn't see this interview, but I did catch a few minutes of him the other day foaming at the mouth about any opposition to healthcare reform is based in racism. Toolbox deluxe.

[GrapevineSooner]

1) A gun was BROUGHT to Luby's in Kileen, Texas...by an idiot...and it had no place there. Also, Luby's, in Kileen Texas, is NOT a public gathering to discuss very emotional issues with many upset people and elected officials. It is not a town hall meeting place. It's a freakin' cafeteria.

I'll help you out (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby%27s_massacre).


During the shooting, Hennard approached Suzanna Gratia Hupp (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzanna_Hupp) and her parents. Hupp had actually brought a handgun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handgun) to the Luby's Cafeteria that day but had left it in her vehicle because laws in force at the time forbade citizens from carrying firearms.

According to her later testimony in favor of Missouri's HB-1720 bill[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby%27s_massacre#cite_note-wmsa.net-0) and in general [2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby%27s_massacre#cite_note-1)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby%27s_massacre#cite_note-2), after she realized that her firearm was not in her purse but "a hundred feet away in [her] car," her father charged at Hennard in an attempt to subdue him but was gunned down; a short time later, Hupp's mother was also shot and killed.

Hupp later expressed regret for abiding by the law in question by leaving her firearm in her car rather than keeping it on her person[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby%27s_massacre#cite_note-wmsa.net-0)

So actually, two people brought their guns to Luby's one day. One was a law abiding citizen who left her's in her car because she wasn't sure whether it would break the law. The other didn't care about the law...or about anyone else for that matter.

[GrapevineSooner]

Chris Matthews is a lunatic. I didn't see this interview, but I did catch a few minutes of him the other day foaming at the mouth about any opposition to healthcare reform is based in racism. Toolbox deluxe.

We need to start holding people who falsely throw the charge of racism against people right up with the actual racists themselves.

To do so is despicable.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Do you guys think I (and everyone on here) hasn't read the accounts of the Luby's Cafeteria shooting in Kileen?

Doesn't change the facts that 1) There shouldn't be guns in a cafeteria and 2) There DEFINITELY shouldn't be guns in a charged environment like a town hall meeting.

Someone might, you know...GET SHOT.

[Scott D]

If you have your own show with a snazzy little name on a major "news" network, it's pretty obvious that you are not only a tool, but a ********* deluxe.

[OklahomaTuba]

Well, there goes Obama's "cost savings" plan. Seniors will be allowed to live afterall since the death panels got dropped.

Key senators are excluding a provision on end-of-life care from health overhaul legislation after language in a House bill caused a furor.
Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa, top Republican on the Senate Finance Committee, said in a statement Thursday that the provision had been dropped from consideration because it could be misinterpreted or implemented incorrectly.http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090813/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_end_of_life_2

[LosAngelesSooner]

Well, there goes Obama's "cost savings" plan. Seniors will be allowed to live afterall since the death panels got dropped.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090813/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_end_of_life_2

:les:THERE WERE NEVER ANY DEATH PANELS TO GET DROPPED IN THE FIRST PLACE.

[OklahomaTuba]

:les:THERE WERE NEVER ANY DEATH PANELS TO GET DROPPED IN THE FIRST PLACE.Well, its a damn good thing they dropped something that didn't exist then.

[Scott D]

Death Panels existed....



























































In Sarah Palin's walnut sized brain.

[yermom]

Do you guys think I (and everyone on here) hasn't read the accounts of the Luby's Cafeteria shooting in Kileen?

Doesn't change the facts that 1) There shouldn't be guns in a cafeteria and 2) There DEFINITELY shouldn't be guns in a charged environment like a town hall meeting.

Someone might, you know...GET SHOT.

why is a cafeteria any different than anywhere else?

[LosAngelesSooner]

Well, its a damn good thing they dropped something that didn't exist then.C_Kh7nLplWo

[LosAngelesSooner]

why is a cafeteria any different than anywhere else?Flip the statement. Why is a town hall meeting about an emotionally charged issue like health care reform by a Democrat President different from most anywhere else?

[OklahomaTuba]

In Sarah Palin's walnut sized brain.
Must be the teleprompters fault again...

THE PRESIDENT:I mean, the chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health care bill out here.

LEONHARDT: So how do you — how do we deal with it?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think that there is going to have to be a conversation that is guided by doctors, scientists, ethicists. And then there is going to have to be a very difficult democratic conversation that takes place. It is very difficult to imagine the country making those decisions just through the normal political channels.

[yermom]

Flip the statement. Why is a town hall meeting about an emotionally charged issue like health care reform by a Democrat President different from most anywhere else?

so where should a licensed firearm owner be allowed to carry? his house?

[LosAngelesSooner]

so where should a licensed firearm owner be allowed to carry? his house?I'm a licensed firearm owner.

Carry them. Sure.

But do OPENLY CARRY THEM to a protest or to a political discussion is to use them to intimidate and scare. To say otherwise is to be dishonest.

And you know it.


Must be the teleprompters fault again...
:les:DIDN'T YOU SEE WHERE I SAID DEATH PANELS?!?!?!?!?!

[OklahomaTuba]

Oh sorry, we can't call them Death Panels anymore, it makes LAS angry.

Wonder what else we can call the independent groups" making decisions out of the normal "political channels" (to avoid political pressure against their unpopular decisions) deciding which treatments will be refused to the elderly in order to reduce the costs of elder-care???

[Scott D]

Oh sorry, we can't call them Death Panels anymore, it makes LAS angry.

Wonder what else we can call the independent groups" making decisions out of the normal "political channels" (to avoid political pressure against their unpopular decisions) deciding which treatments will be refused to the elderly in order to reduce the costs of elder-care???

today we call them doctors and insurance companies.

[LosAngelesSooner]

You can call them whatever crazy thing you want to. Nobody's gonna be able to stop you from spreading lies...and once this one goes away, I'm sure your group of tin foil hat wearing friends will come up with some OTHER ridiculous Obama conspiracy...

...like his Kenyan birth...

[delhalew]

LA--"somebody might get shot". Like someone with killing on there mind?
Are you so afraid of truth that you didn't even read the studies I provided.
I mean come on, one came out chicago and the other is from Harvard. Generally, blindly obedient liberals love those institutions. Especially, Haaarvaard.:0

[Harry Beanbag]

But do OPENLY CARRY THEM to a protest or to a political discussion is to use them to intimidate and scare. To say otherwise is to be dishonest.

And you know it.


Did the guy do anything illegal, because through all the wailing and gnashing of teeth I never heard anyone say it was?

[Curly Bill]

The folks complaining are the guns are icky crowd -- the mere thought of someone with a gun makes them shudder.

Legally possessed and carried gun, or illegally possessed and carried gun, to these folks it's all the same.

[delhalew]

Harry. In NH it is most certainly legal.

Ya'll check this amazing **** out. They say the opposition has no ideas...false.

Here is proof that they're ideas are anything, but new. This wise patriot knew it sucked fifty freakin' years ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs

[LosAngelesSooner]

LA--"somebody might get shot". Like someone with killing on there mind?
Are you so afraid of truth that you didn't even read the studies I provided.
I mean come on, one came out chicago and the other is from Harvard. Generally, blindly obedient liberals love those institutions. Especially, Haaarvaard.:0Well, for ONE thing I'm neither "blindly obedient" nor am I a Liberal.

For second, I've read most of those studies already. Like I said, I HAVE a permit to carry a concealed weapon. I often CARRY my concealed weapon. But there is a time and a place.


Did the guy do anything illegal, because through all the wailing and gnashing of teeth I never heard anyone say it was?Illegal and stupid aren't the same thing, but they're both wrong.


The folks complaining are the guns are icky crowd -- the mere thought of someone with a gun makes them shudder.

Legally possessed and carried gun, or illegally possessed and carried gun, to these folks it's all the same.And then there are those of us who can separate ourselves enough from an issue to know when there is a time and a place for something...and when it's downright stupid to carry a gun.

Come on, man...think a little. This ISN'T a black and white issue.

[Curly Bill]

The guy carrying the gun did exactly what he wanted, he stirred up a bunch of the liberal pantywaists. That certainly does not make him stupid.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Harry. In NH it is most certainly legal.

Ya'll check this amazing **** out. They say the opposition has no ideas...false.

Here is proof that they're ideas are anything, but new. This wise patriot knew it sucked fifty freakin' years ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAsThat light's been shining in a couple of other threads, here. The vampires come-a-runnin' to try to put it out.

[delhalew]

Thought it might have. I have heard snippets, but never the whole thing.

[GrapevineSooner]

Can they carry them to bars?

No, probably not. Fights happen at bars.

What about restaurants?

No, probably not. A gun owner might get pissed because the damn waitress got his order wrong!!!

Guns get carried to these places of business every day. Sometimes by people who open carry and sometimes by people who conceal their weapon. Shockingly, it's usually business as usual at these places.

If a site owner wishes to make his/her site a gun free zone, that's their right. Nevermind there's a chance a criminally minded gun owner might decide to not obey that law (another shocker). Even then, I'll admit the chances of that happening are small.

Back to the Luby's shooting for a moment. If anyone thinks that the presence of a gun in the hands of one of the innocent victims wouldn't have at least given them a fighting chance to prevent George Jo Hennard from gunning more people down, they're being intellectually dishonest. I'm sure Jeanne Assam would disagree with you here.

Obviously, they don't hand out CHL's down here in Texas to anyone who wants them. You have to go through training classes, including crisis training. And as the Colorado Chuch Shooting that I just alluded to proved, a gun in the hands of a well trained individual in the realm of crisis management is a very valuable tool to have, no matter the situation.