Here a lie there a lie, everywhere a lie lie

[Collier11]

Before I get attacked by the libs on the board, I realize every president is FOS, I just find it amusing regardless

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090803/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_economy



WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama's treasury secretary said Sunday he cannot rule out higher taxes to help tame an exploding budget deficit, and his chief economic adviser would not dismiss raising them on middle-class Americans as part of a health care overhaul.

As the White House sought to balance campaign rhetoric with governing, officials appeared willing to extend unemployment benefits. With former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan saying he is "pretty sure we've already seen the bottom" of the recession, Obama aides sought to defend the economic stimulus and calm a jittery public.

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and National Economic Council Director Larry Summers both sidestepped questions on Obama's intentions about taxes. Geithner said the White House was not ready to rule out a tax hike to lower the federal deficit; Summers said Obama's proposed health care overhaul needs funding from somewhere.

"There is a lot that can happen over time," Summers said, adding that the administration believes "it is never a good idea to absolutely rule things out, no matter what."

During his presidential campaign, Obama repeatedly vowed "you will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime." But the simple reality remains that his ambitious overhaul of how Americans receive health care — promised without increasing the federal deficit — must be paid for.

"If we want an economy that's going to grow in the future, people have to understand we have to bring those deficits down. And it's going to be difficult, hard for us to do. And the path to that is through health care reform," Geithner said. "We're not at the point yet where we're going to make a judgment about what it's going to take."

Selling that proposal, however, has proved tricky.

On Friday, the government released a report that suggested the worst recession in the United States since World War II appears on the verge of ending. The economy dipped only slightly in the second quarter of this year — falling at a 1 percent annual pace, better than expected.

The president cautioned against instant turnaround, though.

"Well, as I've said, I think we maybe are beginning to see the end of the recession, but it's still going to be some time before we are seeing companies hiring again. That's usually the last thing that happens," Obama said in an interview with Univision that aired on Sunday.

"So I think we are still going to have a tough remainder of the year — probably until next year — but, you know, at least what we are seeing — we've pulled back from the possibility of a depression. That's not the danger."

Many analysts think the economy is starting to grow again in the current quarter, setting up a long-awaited recovery.

"Most private forecasters — and let's use their judgment — suggest you're going to see unemployment start to come down maybe beginning in the second half of next year," Geithner said, adding those same economists predict positive growth during the second half of this year.

At the same time, Geithner and other administration officials are contemplating how to ask Congress to extend — again — unemployment benefits for the millions of Americans who have lost their jobs in recent months. The proposal drew measured support from Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., as long as the benefits are drawn from the already approved economic stimulus package.

"We need to take care of those who are unemployed, but we also need to make sure they get jobs," he said.

Those jobs, though, are still elusive. Greenspan said the economy is slowly coming back.

"Collapse, I think, is now off the table. We were teetering for a while," he said.

Greenspan said he doesn't think the Federal Reserve should be considering raising interest rates to ward off inflation, although he added that the Fed will have to rein in credit and raise rates at some point.

Obama's opponent for the presidency, Sen. John McCain, questioned whether the administration's actions will prove beneficial for the country.

"I think it's pretty clear, if you pump trillions of dollars into the economy, you will see some recovery," the Arizona Republican said while giving Obama credit for the improvement. "But the long-term consequences, I think, are going to be, unfortunately, devastating unless we do something about it."

Geithner and Greenspan appeared on ABC's "This Week." Summers appeared on NBC's "Meet the Press" and CBS's "Face the Nation." DeMint was interviewed on "Fox News Sunday." McCain spoke with CNN's "State of the Union."

[JLEW1818]

help the poor!! the poor is all that matters!!! The average and rich families do nothing for America!!! - obama

[CrimsonJim]

Oh mercy, Collier. You're gonna start a shat storm with this one. :D

[SteelCitySooner]

Can I get some popcorn?

[CrimsonJim]

Sure, here ya go....

:pop:

[JLEW1818]

this will be a couple pages by day light

:pop: :pop:

[SteelCitySooner]

I'm tempted to stay up and watch it grow!

[LosAngelesSooner]

Huh. Funny. We might need to increase the government's income in order to cover all the spending they did for the past 8 years.

Who'd a thunk?

;)

[SteelCitySooner]

come on that was weak... i know there is better ammo than that!

[JLEW1818]

what about the last few months

[CK Sooner]

Huh. Funny. We might need to increase the government's income in order to cover all the spending they did for the past 8 years.

Who'd a thunk?

;)

George Bush is the greatest President we have ever had. Take that back!

;)

[GrapevineSooner]

Huh. Funny. We might need to increase the government's income in order to cover all the spending they did for the past 8 years.

Who'd a thunk?

;)

That's part of it. And as a fiscal conservative, it makes me ill just thinking about it.0

But even Bush's expansion of the Federal Government will pale into comparison to what Obama wants to do.

[AggieTool]

Read my lips!:D

[StoopTroup]

A thousand points of light....

[badger]

"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist."
-Dom Helder Camara, Brazilian archbishop

(i wouldn't have known that quote without playing Civilization IV)

[Collier11]

Oh mercy, Collier. You're gonna start a shat storm with this one. :D

truth hurts sometimes, the guy who was going to reign in spending and not raise taxes flat out lied, only he is doing it in record numbers...whatd ya expect though ;)

[OklahomaTuba]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3329/3312075851_c814f7f430.jpg

See, he was telling the truth for once...

Tax and Spend!

[adoniijahsooner]

What do you expect our government to do? Better question, what are we willing to contribute in order to see this country get back on track? Would you rather the poor be left to themselves, and find their own way to eat and obtain healthcare?

The people are also responsible for the current economy; spending what they don't have on houses and cars, and then belly-aching when you to have pitch in a little.

The last administration lied, and our nation loses fathers, mothers, daughters, and sons to war, and the GOP defend the lie with all their might, but Obama "lies" and the only thing you may lose is a few dollars from your paycheck, and you scream bloody murder. If we can lose the life of our dear soldiers, surely your money is fair game as well.

[OklahomaTuba]

Would you rather the poor be left to themselves, and find their own way to eat and obtain healthcare?
Yes.

Maybe then, they wouldn't be poor.

[OklahomaTuba]

If we can lose the life of our dear soldiers, surely your money is fair game as well.Of course the difference is, our soldiers sacrifice actually makes the world a better place.

Taking money from hard working people doesn't. It makes things worse actually.

Maybe that's why King Brack lied about it during the campaign????

[Collier11]

we dont have to leave them alone but we could start expecting a little more out of them

[badger]

The people are also responsible for the current economy; spending what they don't have on houses and cars, and then belly-aching when you to have pitch in a little.

I wonder if people had the slightest bit of satisfaction in knowing that after years of credit cards jacking up rates after a single missed payment, or housing prices tanking after paying too much for a house then being responsible for a mortgage of more than the house is worth... that the creditors were stuck with the bills for once instead of them.

I have not had either of these situations, but I have a feeling people liked seeing the creditors fail, at least initially.

[OklahomaTuba]

Its all fun and games, until the banks become insolvent and the whole system comes crashing down.

BTW, anyone see one of the 4 bank failures last week was in Altus? Down from 7 the week before. Obamanomics is awesome.

[jkjsooner]

or housing prices tanking after paying too much for a house then being responsible for a mortgage of more than the house is worth...

Tough luck. I'm sorry, but for those buying houses in California, Florida, or Las Vegas, they should have known trouble was brewing. All one has to do is look at the affordability indexes and realize that when only 20% of the population can afford the median starter home, something was unsustainable. Taking a look a previous sale prices on their houses would have revealed appreciation anywhere from 100% to 300% in just a few years. If that didn't make you pause then you're severely lacking of common sense (or blinded by greed).

Plus, many of them were gamblers anyway and not a darn one of them was going to give me money had their houses kept appreciating.

No sympathy from me....

Edit: "You" in the post above is not directed towards Badger.

[adoniijahsooner]

Of course the difference is, our soldiers sacrifice actually makes the world a better place.

Taking money from hard working people doesn't. It makes things worse actually.

Maybe that's why King Brack lied about it during the campaign????

Making things worse? How? There are a great number of people who work maybe harder than any of us, and they are not able to make ends meet, there are people who cannot find employment, and there are children in this country who benefit from public assistance who end up turning their life around. If we were to let our poor go without help, how soon before they start climbing through our windows and stealing? The country is better off when the poor are taken care of. I have many friends with families who went recieved assistance while in college, and are middle and upper class; what do you say to those people?

[jkjsooner]

BTW, anyone see one of the 4 bank failures last week was in Altus? Down from 7 the week before. Obamanomics is awesome.

Are you kidding me? Obamanomics? Do you think the seeds for those bank failures were sown in the last six months?

Bernanke said last week that the conditions we faced were worse that what we faced at the start of the Great Depression. (Argue that point all you want but just remember he was a Bush appointee and even economists who disagree with his actions recognized we were in a period of major systemic risk.)

Considering where we were, do you honestly expect Obama's plan to stop every bank failure?

[Collier11]

I just expect him to stop blowing money left and right when he preached responsibility...thats my gripe

[adoniijahsooner]

I just expect him to stop blowing money left and right when he preached responsibility...thats my gripe

I don't like his rockstar attitude; but it's difficult for me not to support agendas that help the poor.

[Collier11]

I dont have an issue with that either but I also think they need to be overhauled just as much if not more than healthcare due to the vast exploitation of those programs

[adoniijahsooner]

I dont have an issue with that either but I also think they need to be overhauled just as much if not more than healthcare due to the vast exploitation of those programs

isnt that what billy clinton did when in office? his welfare reform was tougher than any prez before him.

[badger]

Edit: "You" in the post above is not directed towards Badger.

No offense taken - like I said, I was not among the growing crowd of defaulting debt havers ab0uters.

The only outstanding debt NP and I have collectively had (because of, you know, the whole marriage thing) is an incredibly manageable 30-year mortgage on the starter home and a car that is now completely paid off.

If anyone out there is looking for their first home, I would highly recommend seeking out older neighborhoods and avoid any neighborhoods that have trees that are shorter than the homes. You'll save tons of money and likely have better neighbors.

As for car advice... I think NP and I have both decided that we are never gonna get a new car again :D

[adoniijahsooner]

The funny thing is, I told my fiance as the election went on that BO wasnt on the up and up, and she just looked at me crazy. the guy has a unlawful need to be liked, that cant be good for the prez.

[jkjsooner]

I just expect him to stop blowing money left and right when he preached responsibility...thats my gripe

So far most of Obama's spending has been on measures to stabilize the economy. Would you agree with that? (Healthcare reform is only a debate at the moment.)

Do you really think that years ago when Obama dreamed of being President his dream was to prop up Wall Street banks? Is that the new liberal dream - to give money to the super rich?

I'm pretty sure having to spend this money on financial bailouts isn't exactly making Obama all happy.

[OklahomaTuba]

Making things worse? How??So you think shrinking the majority of American's paychecks will make things better????

Again, if it was a "good" idea and made things better, why did Obama lie about it to begin with???

[Harry Beanbag]

What do you expect our government to do? Better question, what are we willing to contribute in order to see this country get back on track?

Nothing more than I already am. It's not my job as an American to prop up a failing, lying, cheating, stealing, backstabbing government.



Would you rather the poor be left to themselves, and find their own way to eat and obtain healthcare?

Life is hard. The Constitution doesn't guarantee the government will take care of you or provide healthcare to you. America is for the pursuit of happiness, not the handout of contentment.




The last administration lied, and our nation loses fathers, mothers, daughters, and sons to war, and the GOP defend the lie with all their might, but Obama "lies" and the only thing you may lose is a few dollars from your paycheck, and you scream bloody murder. If we can lose the life of our dear soldiers, surely your money is fair game as well.

:rolleyes: Gullible much?

[OklahomaTuba]

Is that the new liberal dream - to give money to the super rich?Is ACORN and the UAW considered rich too???

[OklahomaTuba]

isnt that what billy clinton did when in office? his welfare reform was tougher than any prez before him.You realize the GOP forced him to do that, right??

[adoniijahsooner]

[/B]

Nothing more than I already am. It's not my job as an American to prop up a failing, lying, cheating, stealing, backstabbing government.




Life is hard. The Constitution doesn't guarantee the government will take care of you or provide healthcare to you. America is for the pursuit of happiness, not the handout of contentment.




:rolleyes: Gullible much?

Guess what? raising taxes and providing healthcare doesnt destroy the american dream or capitolism. You can still horde all the riches you want; even though we are in a recession the video game industry is booming now, you just need to find what the population craves and provide that service. Selfishness still has a place in America.

[adoniijahsooner]

You realize the GOP forced him to do that, right??

I did not know that. Do you have any sources?

[Collier11]

So far most of Obama's spending has been on measures to stabilize the economy. Would you agree with that? (Healthcare reform is only a debate at the moment.)

Do you really think that years ago when Obama dreamed of being President his dream was to prop up Wall Street banks? Is that the new liberal dream - to give money to the super rich?

I'm pretty sure having to spend this money on financial bailouts isn't exactly making Obama all happy.

bailouts that the tax payer didnt want to though, the overwhelming majority doesnt want the goverment getting involved in business affairs like that

[jkjsooner]

bailouts that the tax payer didnt want to though, the overwhelming majority doesnt want the goverment getting involved in business affairs like that

I agree but the majority also wouldn't be too happy with another Great Depression. I don't think people realize just how close we were (or "are" considering the wave of mortgage resets still on the horizon) to total collapse.

Sometimes the govt has to do things that are unpopular.

Maybe Bernanke is blowing smoke to try to save his job. I don't know. All I know is that he knows a lot more than any of us and he darn well convinced a lot of otherwise conservative economists that the crap was hitting the fan.

(And, by the way, Bernanke sure as heck didn't create this mess. Greenspan, on the other hand, played quite a large role in it.)

[NormanPride]

Count me as one that can handle living with less so that others have some.

[OklahomaTuba]

Count me as one that can handle living with less so that others have some.What's stopping you from doing that now??

Let us know when you've voluntarily upped your contribution to the federal government.

[Collier11]

Im not saying the pubs are right and im not saying the dems are wrong, but anyone who trusts that lying POS weasel Bernanke has no basis in reality

[OklahomaTuba]

Im not saying the pubs are right and im not saying the dems are wrong, but anyone who trusts that lying POS weasel Bernanke has no basis in realityI trust Bernanke a hell of a lot more than that tax cheat running the treasury dept at this point.

I'm not so sure Bernanke didn't keep this country from literally imploding in the last 9 months.

[NormanPride]

What's stopping you from doing that now??

Let us know when you've voluntarily upped your contribution to the federal government.

Right now we give to charities. The government can ask for more and it won't be the end of the world.

If you hate the government this much, then leave.

[Harry Beanbag]

Guess what? raising taxes and providing healthcare doesnt destroy the american dream or capitolism. You can still horde all the riches you want; even though we are in a recession the video game industry is booming now, you just need to find what the population craves and provide that service. Selfishness still has a place in America.

Horde all the riches I want? Hmmph, unlike the vast majority of people on this board, I don't make Bruce-type money, I'm just trying to survive too. And I don't want or need the government confiscating other people's hard earned money to do it.

And that "selfishness" that you speak so highly of is called the American Dream, people sucking off the government tit can go find and provide that service as well.

[Harry Beanbag]

If you hate the government this much, then leave.


:rolleyes:

[OklahomaTuba]

Right now we give to charities. The government can ask for more and it won't be the end of the world.

If you hate the government this much, then leave.

So if King Hussein takes more of your money to give everyone in the US and Mexico "free" health insurance & a new car, will you be giving less to charities or keeping it the same??

Cause usually what happens is when taxes go up, the poor get hosed big time.

Its why the War on Poverty and the great society ended up being such a dismal failure.

[NormanPride]

So if King Hussein takes more of your money to give everyone in the US and Mexico "free" health insurance & a new car, will you be giving less to charities or keeping it the same??

Cause usually what happens is when taxes go up, the poor get hosed big time.

Its why the War on Poverty and the great society ended up being such a dismal failure.

Probably the same. It depends on how much taxes go up. And calling him "King Hussein" is unbearably childish.

[SoonerStormchaser]

The last administration lied, and our nation loses fathers, mothers, daughters, and sons to war, and the GOP defend the lie with all their might, but Obama "lies" and the only thing you may lose is a few dollars from your paycheck, and you scream bloody murder. If we can lose the life of our dear soldiers, surely your money is fair game as well.

Bubba, you're treading on some dangerous ground with that.

[NormanPride]

:rolleyes:

What is wrong with that statement? Our whole country was founded by people that didn't like their government and left. Why do you hate America? ;)

[OklahomaTuba]

And that "selfishness" that you speak so highly of is called the American Dream, people sucking off the government tit can go find and provide that service as well.To most of the far left, the "American Dream" is nothing less than a crime against humanity it seems.

[Harry Beanbag]

What is wrong with that statement? Our whole country was founded by people that didn't like their government and left. Why do you hate America? ;)

I'm not sure if you can see the true irony in this statement. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the ;) means that you do. :)

[Harry Beanbag]

Probably the same. It depends on how much taxes go up.

This is unintentionally very funny. :D

[adoniijahsooner]

Bubba, you're treading on some dangerous ground with that.

the biggest surprise is that people believe that politicians tell the truth. They said the war on iraq was about WMD, were they telling the truth? The soldiers who serve this country have sworn to serve without question, so don't think I am trying to cheapen their sacrifice; but there were too many falsehoods to count from the previous administration, and its not unpatriotic to believe that war should never had taken place.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Would you rather the poor be left to themselves, and find their own way to eat and obtain healthcare?


Yes.

Maybe then, they wouldn't be poor.It's sad and embarrassing for you that you actually feel this way.

You should be ashamed.

[NormanPride]

This is unintentionally very funny. :D

I guess... I mean, everyone has their limit. Ours is smaller because neither of us make a ton of money. My main point is that people bitch about tax raises too much. It's like complaining that the insurance is too high on your ferrari. Yeah it sucks, but shut up, dammit. :D

[NormanPride]

It's sad and embarrassing for you that you actually feel this way.

You should be ashamed.

It's harder to say that here in OK, I think. We have a lot of people on welfare that should otherwise be working. That tends to tint the color of the lenses with which you view poverty...

[Harry Beanbag]

It's harder to say that here in OK, I think. We have a lot of people on welfare that should otherwise be working. That tends to tint the color of the lenses with which you view poverty...

It's the same, or worse, in California. LAS doesn't need any more tint on his lenses. ;)

[NormanPride]

But I thought California was a bastion of enterprise and sunshine? :eek:

It's all in what makes people in the region mad. True poverty gets under the skin of your average Californian who says "Someone should help them". Lazy people get under the skin of your average Okie who says "They should get off their damn *** and try working on my ranch for a change".

;)

[LosAngelesSooner]

[/b]

Nothing more than I already am. It's not my job as an American to prop up a failing, lying, cheating, stealing, backstabbing BIG BUSINESS.
Dude...at least focus your anger in the right direction.

FIXED, btw...

I love how people don't get it that big business and greed, NOT the current administration, are what got us into this bind, but they want to then turn around and let big business keep running our health care. Yeah...they did such a good jorb with Wall Street, let's let them keep our livers, too. :rolleyes:

Another funny misconception is that government run health care will cover "those dirty, lazy poor people and illegal immigrants." Guess what, people? THAT'S WHAT OUR CURRENT HEALTH CARE SYSTEM DOES. The proposed one would NOW start covering all those hard working, blue collar types with two-three jobs and a family who work their tails off for...BIG BUSINESSES...who don't provide them with health care. So they make enough to NOT qualify for health care as it stands, but not enough to AFFORD health care as it stands.

Boot straps, indeed.

Y'all need to put the talking points down and get the facts. Lord.

[Harry Beanbag]

Dude...at least focus your anger in the right direction.

FIXED, btw...

I love how people don't get it that big business and greed, NOT the current administration, are what got us into this bind, but they want to then turn around and let big business keep running our health care. Yeah...they did such a good jorb with Wall Street, let's let them keep our livers, too. :rolleyes:

Another funny misconception is that government run health care will cover "those dirty, lazy poor people and illegal immigrants." Guess what, people? THAT'S WHAT OUR CURRENT HEALTH CARE SYSTEM DOES. The proposed one would NOW start covering all those hard working, blue collar types with two-three jobs and a family who work their tails off for...BIG BUSINESSES...who don't provide them with health care. So they make enough to NOT qualify for health care as it stands, but not enough to AFFORD health care as it stands.

Boot straps, indeed.

Y'all need to put the talking points down and get the facts. Lord.

Good Lord, you swallowed not only the fish but the entire rod and reel.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Probably the same. It depends on how much taxes go up. And calling him "King Hussein" is unbearably childish.Amen. Tuba is TERRIBLY aggiesh like that.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Good Lord, you swallowed not only the fish but the entire rod and reel.Good comeback. Ignore the fact that I'm right and just be snarky.

That's damn patriotic of ya. :rolleyes:

[LosAngelesSooner]

It's the same, or worse, in California.This is just a COMPLETELY ignorant statement. Wow.

Way to fail to take into account differences in inflation, unemployment figures, cost of living, education, state taxes, etc...

Yeah...the poor in California are all just lazy. Yup. That's it. We can TOTALLY equate California's living situation to Oklahoma's. They're identical. :rolleyes:

[adoniijahsooner]

Dude...at least focus your anger in the right direction.

FIXED, btw...

I love how people don't get it that big business and greed, NOT the current administration, are what got us into this bind, but they want to then turn around and let big business keep running our health care. Yeah...they did such a good jorb with Wall Street, let's let them keep our livers, too. :rolleyes:

Another funny misconception is that government run health care will cover "those dirty, lazy poor people and illegal immigrants." Guess what, people? THAT'S WHAT OUR CURRENT HEALTH CARE SYSTEM DOES. The proposed one would NOW start covering all those hard working, blue collar types with two-three jobs and a family who work their tails off for...BIG BUSINESSES...who don't provide them with health care. So they make enough to NOT qualify for health care as it stands, but not enough to AFFORD health care as it stands.

Boot straps, indeed.

Y'all need to put the talking points down and get the facts. Lord.

Exactly! i'm a 33 year old man who works the graveyard shift; sometimes 7 nights a week, but guess what? NO HEALTHCARE, and i work a physical job. These plans don't just benefit the lazy and leeches, it helps the workers who serve you fast food, bag your groceries, and load trucks so you can have your trinkets and toys. Dont forget the temp workers as well.

[LosAngelesSooner]

If an illegal walks into a hospital under the current health care system, guess what? They get treated and don't have to pay for it. We do.

If a homeless person walks into a hospital or a government run free clinic, guess what? They get treated and don't have to pay for it. We do.

If the legal U.S. citizen who works from 6am until 2pm at McDonald's and then works from 3pm until 11pm at Starbucks gets sick and walks into a hospital under the current health care system, guess what? They either don't get treated or they get billed so astronomically high that they cannot pay their rent that month and their children starve because they don't have health care because their BIG BUSINESS bosses don't cover them.

:les: GRAB THEM BOOTSTRAPS!!!!!

[Collier11]

I know this is just one poll but these numbers are staggering

http://js.polls.yahoo.com/quiz/quiziframe.php?poll_id=46067

[Harry Beanbag]

Exactly! i'm a 33 year old man who works the graveyard shift; sometimes 7 nights a week, but guess what? NO HEALTHCARE, and i work a physical job. These plans don't just benefit the lazy and leeches, it helps the workers who serve you fast food, bag your groceries, and load trucks so you can have your trinkets and toys. Dont forget the temp workers as well.

You don't have to answer, I don't mean to get personal or anything, but where do you work? By 7 nights a week I'm assuming it's full time? To tell you the truth, I've never heard of a company that didn't offer healthcare benefits to full time employees. Isn't that the thing with Wal-mart, they won't work people "full time" so they don't have to offer benefits?

[badger]

There's a lot of reasons why Oklahomans would dislike welfare, handouts from the government, etc. I wonder if it has to do with the fact that for so long, other states got more than their share while Oklahoma never got back anywhere close to what it paid into the system.

[Harry Beanbag]

This is just a COMPLETELY ignorant statement. Wow.

Way to fail to take into account differences in inflation, unemployment figures, cost of living, education, state taxes, etc...

Yeah...the poor in California are all just lazy. Yup. That's it. We can TOTALLY equate California's living situation to Oklahoma's. They're identical. :rolleyes:

Never said anything about anything being identical, but I'm fairly certain there are a substantial number of people on welfare in the great Utopian paradise of California. Can you prove me wrong?

[LosAngelesSooner]

You don't have to answer, I don't mean to get personal or anything, but where do you work? By 7 nights a week I'm assuming it's full time? To tell you the truth, I've never heard of a company that didn't offer healthcare benefits to full time employees. Isn't that the thing with Wal-mart, they won't work people "full time" so they don't have to offer benefits?:les: LAZY WORTHLESS PEOPLE WITH JORBS!!!!!!! GRAB YER BOOTSTRAPS!!!!

[Collier11]

He will have to follow the rest of the state and offer you an IOU ;)

[Harry Beanbag]

There's a lot of reasons why Oklahomans would dislike welfare, handouts from the government, etc. I wonder if it has to do with the fact that for so long, other states got more than their share while Oklahoma never got back anywhere close to what it paid into the system.

I don't know what you mean exactly, but in general those who pay into the system don't get anything back.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Never said anything about anything being identical, but I'm fairly certain there are a substantial number of people on welfare in the great Utopian paradise of California. Can you prove me wrong?Wouldn't even try to.

But being on Welfare < > Lazy, Worthless and Unemployed.

[Harry Beanbag]

:les: LAZY WORTHLESS PEOPLE WITH JORBS!!!!!!! GRAB YER BOOTSTRAPS!!!!

Simmer down, take a deep breath, and read. The adults are talking right now.

[Harry Beanbag]

Wouldn't even try to.

But being on Welfare < > Lazy, Worthless and Unemployed.

It could or it couldn't. You know it's a gray world out there. ;)

[LosAngelesSooner]

I don't know what you mean exactly, but in general those who pay into the system don't get anything back.Yeah! Stupid roads we aren't allowed to drive on, firemen who won't put out our fires, emergency responders who ignore our car accidents, police who won't investigate crimes against us. Stupid military who don't protect our rights and freedoms with their lives.

We get NUTHIN' outta what we put into the system. ;)

[LosAngelesSooner]

Simmer down, take a deep breath, and read. The adults are talking right now.The second I see an adult posting on the S.O. somebody slap me, 'cause I'm dreamin'.

[LosAngelesSooner]

It's harder to say that here in OK, I think. We have a lot of people on welfare that should otherwise be working. That tends to tint the color of the lenses with which you view poverty...


It's the same, or worse, in California. LAS doesn't need any more tint on his lenses. ;)
This is just a COMPLETELY ignorant statement. Wow.

Way to fail to take into account differences in inflation, unemployment figures, cost of living, education, state taxes, etc...

Yeah...the poor in California are all just lazy. Yup. That's it. We can TOTALLY equate California's living situation to Oklahoma's. They're identical. :rolleyes:


Never said anything about anything being identical, but I'm fairly certain there are a substantial number of people on welfare in the great Utopian paradise of California. Can you prove me wrong?


Wouldn't even try to.

But being on Welfare < > Lazy, Worthless and Unemployed.


It could or it couldn't. You know it's a gray world out there. ;)Sure...sure.

You weren't calling people on welfare lazy or unemployed and you weren't equating California to Oklahoma. ;)

[Harry Beanbag]

Yeah! Stupid roads we aren't allowed to drive on, firemen who won't put out our fires, emergency responders who ignore our car accidents, police who won't investigate crimes against us. Stupid military who don't protect our rights and freedoms with their lives.

We get NUTHIN' outta what we put into the system. ;)


Um, Badger was talking about welfare and government handouts.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

I don't like his rockstar attitude; but it's difficult for me not to support agendas that help the poor.

The last war on poverty we had destroyed the inner cities. If that's what the gov't calls helping the poor, I think the poor would be better off if the gov't just ignored them.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Um, Badger was talking about welfare and government handouts.
Everything I LISTED is a "government handout."

[LosAngelesSooner]

*shhhhhhhhhhh, everyone!!!!*

I hear an adult coming.

:D

[Harry Beanbag]

Sure...sure.

You weren't calling people on welfare lazy or unemployed and you weren't equating California to Oklahoma. ;)


Actually, aren't people on welfare by definition unemployed? And if you can prove to me that there are not people in California on welfare that could be employed I'll leave this board forever.

[JLEW1818]

basically if your too dumb to reproduce don't reproduce. if your too worthless get the hell out, if your illegal don't come in..

wow, do we wish it was that simple

[Harry Beanbag]

Everything I LISTED is a "government handout."


Bull****. All the things you listed are legitmate government services.

[adoniijahsooner]

You don't have to answer, I don't mean to get personal or anything, but where do you work? By 7 nights a week I'm assuming it's full time? To tell you the truth, I've never heard of a company that didn't offer healthcare benefits to full time employees. Isn't that the thing with Wal-mart, they won't work people "full time" so they don't have to offer benefits?

I just turned full-time last month, but I have to wait for the enrollment period to come around again, which I believe is next year, Im not sure. Before they would work me 40+ hours, and then drop me down to 20, so that way they can keep me part-time. I dont work at wal-mart. Even still the weekly deductions are pretty steep for me and my family.

[Bourbon St Sooner]

Dude...at least focus your anger in the right direction.

FIXED, btw...

I love how people don't get it that big business and greed, NOT the current administration, are what got us into this bind, but they want to then turn around and let big business keep running our health care. Yeah...they did such a good jorb with Wall Street, let's let them keep our livers, too. :rolleyes:

Another funny misconception is that government run health care will cover "those dirty, lazy poor people and illegal immigrants." Guess what, people? THAT'S WHAT OUR CURRENT HEALTH CARE SYSTEM DOES. The proposed one would NOW start covering all those hard working, blue collar types with two-three jobs and a family who work their tails off for...BIG BUSINESSES...who don't provide them with health care. So they make enough to NOT qualify for health care as it stands, but not enough to AFFORD health care as it stands.

Boot straps, indeed.

Y'all need to put the talking points down and get the facts. Lord.


Why would you want the same government that built the New Orleans levee system running health care?

See this game is fun.

btw, most BIG BUSINESSES do provide health care for their employees. It's the small businesses that often don't.

[Harry Beanbag]

I just turned full-time last month, but I have to wait for the enrollment period to come around again, which I believe is another next year, Im not sure. Before they would work me 40+ hours, and then drop me down to 20, so that way they can keep me part-time. I dont work at wal-mart. Even still the weekly deductions are pretty steep for me and my family.

See, companies jerking people around like that is really lame. I was laid off from a job a few years ago so I got private health insurance for the time I was off work, ended up being only 6 weeks. At my new company I had to wait the standard 3 months to receive benefits. The deductions to include the wife on my plan would have been more expensive than just keeping the private insurance that we already had so that's what we did until I found a better job. That better job had outstanding health coverage, it cost us zero dollars to have our kid on that plan.

Believe me, I know that healthcare insurance is far from perfect and some companies will do what they can to screw you. I just don't think the government will improve the situation. Good luck.

[badger]

Um, Badger was talking about welfare and government handouts.

It doesn't matter, but thanks anyway. I'm through with this thread.

[LosAngelesSooner]

basically if your too dumb to reproduce don't reproduce. if your too worthless get the hell out, if your illegal don't come in..

wow, do we wish it was that simpleAnd how will you react when someone informs you that you're too dumb to reproduce?

*ahem* ;)


Bull****. All the things you listed are legitmate government services.Right.

Like welfare.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Why would you want the same government that built the New Orleans levee system running health care?

See this game is fun.

btw, most BIG BUSINESSES do provide health care for their employees. It's the small businesses that often don't.Why would I want the same health care that our military vets get? Why would I want the same government that can get a letter from my home in Los Angeles to my friend's condo in NYC in 3 days for $0.45 to run health care?

See? This game IS fun. :D

[Curly Bill]

Right now we give to charities. The government can ask for more and it won't be the end of the world.

If you hate the government this much, then leave.

Seriously, of all the dumb posts I've read in this thread this is the only one dumb enough to get me to respond.

"If you hate the government this much, then leave" :rolleyes:

This is our country too, we should leave because we want to keep most of the money we earn and not give it to the government so they can give it to others?

[JLEW1818]

http://i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm474/jlew1818/obama.jpg

[OklahomaTuba]

Believe me, I know that healthcare insurance is far from perfect and some companies will do what they can to screw you. I just don't think the government will improve the situation. Good luck.

I'd rather deal with a company trying to screw me than a federal gov bureaucrat in Washington trying to do the same.

[OklahomaTuba]

This is our country too, we should leave because we want to keep most of the money we earn and not give it to the government so they can give it to others?Well, paying taxes is a form of patriotism after all. Don't you want to be MORE patriotic like Norman???

Seriously, for all the folks that want to pay more taxes, please, feel free. There is a form you can fill out on the IRS website to do so.

Nothing is stopping you from filling it out.

If you have more to give, then please, give. Let Barack tell you how to spend your money. ACORN needs more money, and my aunt needs that shiny new Ford.

[Sooner_Bob]

The second I see an adult posting on the S.O. somebody slap me, 'cause I'm dreamin'.

Don't make me pull this car over!

[Curly Bill]

Well, paying taxes is a form of patriotism after all. Don't you want to be MORE patriotic like Norman???

Norman can be "patriotic" with his money all he wants to. To believe others should be "patriotic" with their's is really none of his business.

[OklahomaTuba]

Well, back to the topic of Obama lying, this one is gonna hurt...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk&feature=player_embedded

And if you need the Obama-joker PDF for the house or at work:

http://winestooge.com/images/socialism.pdf

YWIA.

[LosAngelesSooner]

I'd rather deal with a company trying to screw me than a federal gov bureaucrat in Washington trying to do the same.Oh...so you really don't care who's screwing you, then?

Yeah...I think history has proven that the U.S. government would always screw its people over more thoroughly and more often than big business would. :rolleyes:

[LosAngelesSooner]

Un-American, Socialism, ACORN, Swift Boat, loyalty, God Bless Our Troops, Dey Tuk OWER JERBS, Taxes, Europe, Jesus, Abortion, Socialism, King Hussein, Pledge of Allegiance, Global War on Terror, Homeland, ACORN, America, Stalinist, Hand Outs, Nanny State, 10 Commandments, Reagan.
Fixed. :P

[OklahomaTuba]

Yeah...I think history has proven that the U.S. government would always screw its people over more thoroughly and more often than big business would. :rolleyes:I'm sure the Native American population would agree.

[LosAngelesSooner]

I'm sure the Native American population would agree.Who funded the colonization of most of North America?

Big Business.

Who contracted out for transcontinental railroads which lead to the slaughter of millions of Native Americans and the enslavement of the Chinese?

Big Business.

What drove the Spanish conquest of Central and South America?

Big Business.




You make this too easy for me. I'd recommend you put me back on ignore so I can't completely stomp your idiotic replies any more. :D

[Soonerpsycho]

I have an idea. How about we ship off all the illegals and give their jobs to the poor so they don't have to be poor anymore. What? Illegals are here to do the jobs Americans, i.e. the poor don't want. Well, I guess that explains why they're poor.

[Harry Beanbag]

I'd rather deal with a company trying to screw me than a federal gov bureaucrat in Washington trying to do the same.

I'd rather not deal with either. Private health insurance plans really aren't all that unreasonable to buy on your own. I was actually surprised when I got some for us. Of course people expect things for free so....

[LosAngelesSooner]

I have an idea. How about we ship off all the illegals and give their jobs to the poor so they don't have to be poor anymore. What? Illegals are here to do the jobs Americans, i.e. the poor don't want. Well, I guess that explains why they're poor.Heh...ahhh emotional language with no basis in fact. How I love you...:D

[Harry Beanbag]

Right.

Like welfare.


Says you.

[Collier11]

Look what ive started ;)

[JLEW1818]

or just make everybody over 49 retire, give them each a million dollars, make them buy a house.

opens the jobs up for the young, and helps the housing..

lol, would probably work better than Obamanomics or w/e the hell it is

[Harry Beanbag]

Who contracted out for transcontinental railroads which lead to the slaughter of millions of Native Americans and the enslavement of the Chinese?


:confused: I know the Natives weren't treated well at all, but get a grip, man.

[Collier11]

Heh...ahhh emotional language with no basis in fact. How I love you...:D

Heres one for you LAS, instead of feeding the welfare program and paying for all these illegals to live here and take jobs that could be given to legal workers, and bailing out billion dollar companies despite their greed, why not do something useful like give every person like myself who graduated HS and graduated college and got a job and kept a job like I was supposed to and Ive been taught to do some sort of Student loan voucher so I can actually make a decent living without 30 years of debt.

You wanna talk about helping the middle class and below, there is your answer. You relieve that debt and anyone who didnt have the money to go to college without loans would now have the money to put back into the economy. Nah, that makes too much sense, Obama would rather bail out the corporate greed and the bottom feeders

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I did not know that. Do you have any sources?DAYUM, guy? You think Clinton would have done something like that of his own volition, then you don't know much about Clinton.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

What is wrong with that statement? Our whole country was founded by people that didn't like their government and left. Why do you hate America? ;)We kicked the British oppressors out. It might have to happen to the Socialists.

[NormanPride]

Norman can be "patriotic" with his money all he wants to. To believe others should be "patriotic" with their's is really none of his business.

That's why I said to count me as one that will survive if taxes increase. I'm not saying that everyone else will, just me (and by marriage, baj as well).

As to the other point of leaving the country, I remember specifically this same line being argued by those in favor of our military presence in Iraq and Afghanistan. If you didn't like that we were being preemptive there, then leave the country. I guess sarcasm and irony is lost in political discussion? ;)

[badger]

We definitely need a larger winkie smiley here than the standard sized one for emphasized sarcastic remarks:
http://i29.tinypic.com/2vsg1zn.jpg
Ok, now as promised, I will stop posting in this thread. :D

[Curly Bill]

That's why I said to count me as one that will survive if taxes increase. I'm not saying that everyone else will, just me (and by marriage, baj as well).

As to the other point of leaving the country, I remember specifically this same line being argued by those in favor of our military presence in Iraq and Afghanistan. If you didn't like that we were being preemptive there, then leave the country. I guess sarcasm and irony is lost in political discussion? ;)

Well played. Argue for raising taxes, when someone protests that idea, suggest they leave the country if they don't like it. When someone points out the lunacy of that idea, argue that you were being sarcastic to begin with. ;)

[NormanPride]

Well played. Argue for raising taxes, when someone protests that idea, suggest they leave the country if they don't like it. When someone points out the lunacy of that idea, argue that you were being sarcastic to begin with. ;)

Just because you didn't get it doesn't mean I wasn't sarcastic.

[Curly Bill]

Just because you didn't get it doesn't mean I wasn't sarcastic.

I know. ;)

[Collier11]

wait, was he just being sarcastic about being sarcastic?

[Curly Bill]

wait, was he just being sarcastic about being sarcastic?

Hard to say, there was no winkie. ;)

[LosAngelesSooner]

Says you.You say toh-may-toh, I say toh-mah-toh.

[LosAngelesSooner]

:confused: I know the Natives weren't treated well at all, but get a grip, man.Really? Was my statement untrue?

[LosAngelesSooner]

Heres one for you LAS, instead of feeding the welfare program and paying for all these illegals to live here and take jobs that could be given to legal workers, and bailing out billion dollar companies despite their greed, why not do something useful like give every person like myself who graduated HS and graduated college and got a job and kept a job like I was supposed to and Ive been taught to do some sort of Student loan voucher so I can actually make a decent living without 30 years of debt.

You wanna talk about helping the middle class and below, there is your answer. You relieve that debt and anyone who didnt have the money to go to college without loans would now have the money to put back into the economy. Nah, that makes too much sense, Obama would rather bail out the corporate greed and the bottom feedersI honestly think that's an excellent idea.

:eek:

;)

[LosAngelesSooner]

DAYUM, guy? You think Clinton would have done something like that of his own volition, then you don't know much about Clinton.In other words...
I don't have any facts to back my statement up, but it sure feels right in my gut!

[LosAngelesSooner]

We kicked the British oppressors out. It might have to happen to the Socialists.Good luck.

They outnumber you by a considerable amount and they're out breeding you.

[LosAngelesSooner]

...and one more to grow on...

[JLEW1818]

socialist shouldn't breed

[LosAngelesSooner]

And thanks, Jlew1818, for the spek comment:

Here a lie there a lie,... (http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2656567#post2656567) 8/3/2009 11:51 AM jlew1818 (http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/member.php?u=57367) **** you, you ****ing LA dbag ... ur the biggest tool by far on this site and everybody knows it , ****er

Always nice to have confirmation that I won the argument. :D

[Curly Bill]

socialist shouldn't breed


...but the govt. gives them more money when they breed.

Try to keep up. :P

[LosAngelesSooner]

And they also give them condoms for free that our tax dollars pay for.

:les: GOVERNMENT FLIP FLOPPERS!!!!

[Curly Bill]

And they also give them condoms for free that our tax dollars pay for.

:les: GOVERNMENT FLIP FLOPPERS!!!!

If it'll keep the bottom feeders from breeding I'll buy em condoms outta my own pocket. :D

[Collier11]

And thanks, Jlew1818, for the spek comment:

Always nice to have confirmation that I won the argument. :D

lovers quarrel?

[JLEW1818]

And thanks, Jlew1818, for the spek comment:

Always nice to have confirmation that I won the argument. :D

just making sure that you know

and what argument? I posted the pick of Obama as the Joker.. u didn't win ****...

[Harry Beanbag]

Really? Was my statement untrue?

I don't know, I don't remember ever hearing about the slaughter of millions of people in North America. Damn public schools.

[LosAngelesSooner]

lovers quarrel?Certainly.

I mean, he's SO cute. :D


just making sure that you know

and what argument? I posted the pick of Obama as the Joker.. u didn't win ****...Heh.

You keep doing my job for me, Jlew1818. :D

http://www.ptv.com.pk/images/kidscorner/gallary/stories/PiratesTreasure/2_dig_small.jpg

http://www.sanjaybakshi.net/Sanjay_Bakshi/Blog/Entries/2009/4/29_When_you_dig_a_hole_too_deep..._files/shapeimage_1.png


Though I prefer this video to get my point across, better:

vmpisOn4FmE&e

Obviously I'm the B-Hole in this analogy.

:D:D:D

[LosAngelesSooner]

I don't know, I don't remember ever hearing about the slaughter of millions of people in North America. Damn public schools.Seriously...you should go study, then.

[JLEW1818]

lol, I'm not falling for your starting **** stuff... we all know u will win everytime, or go cry to the mods, or something of that nature...

[LosAngelesSooner]

Oh, and Jlew? The SECOND your opinion will count for SQUAT around here is the day you're the last poster ON SF.com. ;)

Thanks for "lettin' me know." :D

I'll go "Cry to the Mods" now. Certainly, I will. Promise.

Get riiiight on that. ;)

[JLEW1818]

LAS is the winner!!!!!!!!!!!!

u really are the smartest person on SoonerFans.. and all your long *** posts u make that make about zero sense

[LosAngelesSooner]

I'll use smaller words next time so you can follow along.

Better? :)

[swardboy]

HA HA! I won the argument! Don't play with a grown-up, you wimpy little child.










...and don't start no **** with me!

[JLEW1818]

I'll use smaller words next time so you can follow along.

Better? :)

lol, LAS will you add me to your buddy list please!!!

[NormanPride]

Hard to say, there was no winkie. ;)

I'm not sure. :O I confuse myself sometimes!

[Collier11]

I'm not sure. :O I confuse myself sometimes!

Yes it is supposed to feel tingly down there...not when LAS enters the room though. I hope this helps





















:D

[NormanPride]

:mad:

[LosAngelesSooner]

lol, LAS will you add me to your buddy list please!!!Nnnnope.

[LosAngelesSooner]

HA HA! I won the argument! Don't play with a grown-up, you wimpy little child.










...and don't start no **** with me!Dang.

I hate it when you win. :mad:

[LosAngelesSooner]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/03/obama.economy/index.html


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The White House shot down concerns Monday that middle-class families may face a tax increase in order to combat rising deficits and a struggling economy.

"The president was clear during the campaign about his commitment on not raising taxes on middle-class families," White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said Monday afternoon. "I don't think any economist would believe that, in the environment that we're in, that raising taxes on middle-class families would make any sense."

The concern came after the Obama administration's two top money men floated the idea that tax increases to fund the nation's economic recovery could extend beyond the wealthiest Americans.

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and Larry Summers, director of the National Economic Council, said Sunday they could no longer guarantee the middle class will be spared a tax increase.

"We have to do what's necessary," Geithner said on ABC's "This Week." "The critical thing is people understand that when we have recovery established -- led by the private sector -- and we have to bring these deficits down very dramatically ... we have to bring them down to a level where the amount we're borrowing from the world is stable and at a reasonable level."

Geithner added that "very hard choices" need to be made in order to bring down the deficit.

"And we're going to have to try and do that in a way that doesn't add unfairly to the burdens that the average American homeowner already faces." http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/tabs/video.gif Watch more of Geithner's comments » (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/03/obama.economy/index.html#cnnSTCVideo)

Summers said on CBS' "Face the Nation" on Sunday that "there's a lot that can happen over time ... so it's never a good idea to absolutely ... rule things out no matter what."

When pressed by reporters Monday on Geithner and Summers' comments, Gibbs said "They allowed themselves to get into a little hypothetical back-and-forth."

"We do have big structural deficits that are going to have to be dealt with in order to meet the president's commitment of cutting this deficit," Gibbs said. "I think what they both talked about was ... we're not going to be able to sustain any kind of economic recovery until we do have a path towards fiscal responsibility. They also said that shouldn't be done as a way of burdening middle-class families." http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/tabs/video.gif Watch a report on the tax issue » (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/03/obama.economy/index.html#cnnSTCVideo)

During the 2008 presidential campaign, Obama made it clear that the middle class -- whom he defined as anyone making under $250,000 -- would not face any tax increase.

"If you make under $250,000, you will not see your taxes increased by a single dime. Not your income tax. Not your payroll tax. Not your capital gains tax. No tax," he said. http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/tabs/video.gif Watch Gibbs vow no tax hike » (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/03/obama.economy/index.html#cnnSTCVideo)

The president recently reiterated that he stands behind that promise. But the key question going forward is what and how much the taxes could be raised if necessary.

Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan said he believed the government would eventually impose some kind of value-added tax to raise revenue.

A value-added tax is assessed on the transfer of goods and services from production to delivery, with consumers ultimately paying higher prices. It differs from a sales tax, which is directly assessed on consumers when they buy something.

Greenspan called a value-added tax "the least-worst solution," saying it is "the only thing that raises revenue in significant quantities without significantly impacting the economy."

Both Geithner and Greenspan, appearing on the same show, insisted that the economy (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/U_S_National_Economy) would not collapse. But emergency steps -- including the bailout plan last year and the economic stimulus bill -- are expanding the federal budget deficit to unsustainable levels, both said.

"We will not get this economy back on track, recovery will not be strong and sustained, unless we ... can convince the American people that we're going to have the will to bring these deficits down once recovery is firmly established," Geithner said.

Summers, speaking to reporters Sunday, said Obama's focus is moving the economic stimulus plan forward.

"The crucial issues for the deficit go to the larger areas of the federal budget. They go to health care, they go to entitlements, they go to tax loopholes, and the president's very committed to taking the steps that are necessary ... to rescuing the economy. That's why the recovery and reinvestment act is so important: to ensure that it has a strong foundation."

But a key issue for the administration is a record-high unemployment rate in the country.

Geithner (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/Timothy_Geithner) said the government will consider extending unemployment benefits that will run out soon for more than a million Americans.

Christina Romer, chairwoman of the Council of Economic Advisers, said on CNN's State of the Union on Sunday that the administration expects a turnaround in the gross domestic product, and "then we'd expect jobs to normally start growing shortly after that." http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/tabs/video.gif Watch more of her view on the economy » (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/03/obama.economy/index.html#cnnSTCVideo)

But Republicans blasted the current efforts, saying the administration is mortgaging its future economic stability.

Rep. Mike Pence, R-Indiana, refused to credit government policies for the encouraging economic signals, saying progress has happened "in spite of the prescriptions of Washington."

"I think what we're seeing in the economy now is the inherent resilience of the American economy and the American people," Pence said on "Fox News Sunday." "What I'm saying is that this piecemeal approach -- government handouts through a government bureaucracy -- is no substitute for broad-based tax relief and fiscal discipline in Washington."

Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona, who lost to Obama in last year's presidential election, conceded that the $787 billion stimulus package had helped, but he said the help was at too high a cost.

"I think it's very clear that the stimulus has had some effect," McCain said on CNN's "State of the Union." "But, what I worry more than anything about is the long-term effects." http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/tabs/video.gif Watch more of McCain's comments » (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/03/obama.economy/index.html#cnnSTCVideo)

"We have put trillions of additional debt on future generations of Americans," he said, adding: "The long-term consequences, I think, are going to be, unfortunately, devastating unless we do something about it."Awww CRAP! There he goes ruining all of your righteous indignation!!!!! :mad::mad::mad:

[Collier11]

come on now LAS, we all know that politicians promise one thing and do another, im sure he will still end up raising taxes

[JLEW1818]

NO TAX INCREASES FOR PEOPLE UNDER $250,000...[hairGel] [hairGel] [hairGel]



"but bush did this and said that and did that..." BUSH AINT IN OFFICE ANYMORE

[Curly Bill]

One way or the other we're going to pay more in taxes.

It may be a disguised tax increase, but a tax increase it will be.

[Curly Bill]

NO TAX INCREASES FOR PEOPLE UNDER $250,000...[hairGel] [hairGel] [hairGel]



"but bush did this and said that and did that..." BUSH AINT IN OFFICE ANYMORE

Lamest argument the donks have (IMO). They need to find a new horse to beat to death.

Most of us have already admitted that Bush was FAIL as POTUS. I don't see how comparing Brack to him is supposed to help the Libs cause...:confused:

[JLEW1818]

agree

[JLEW1818]

http://i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm474/jlew1818/obama1-1.jpg

[LosAngelesSooner]

Lamest argument the donks have (IMO). They need to find a new horse to beat to death.

Most of us have already admitted that Bush was FAIL as POTUS. I don't see how comparing Brack to him is supposed to help the Libs cause...:confused:And yet almost all of the animosity I earned (before I started being a general **** Pot Stirrer) around here was originally from my very vocal disapproval, distrust and criticism of Bush as POTUS which only started around (roughly) 2003.

Yet so few will actually, openly admit that, yes, I was, in fact, RIGHT. Oh, you guys all fess up in PMs and spek comments, but out in the open?? ;)

LOL :D

[Curly Bill]

And yet almost all of the animosity I earned (before I started being a general **** Pot Stirrer) around here was originally from my very vocal disapproval, distrust and criticism of Bush as POTUS which only started around (roughly) 2003.

Yet so few will actually, openly admit that, yes, I was, in fact, RIGHT. Oh, you guys all fess up in PMs and spek comments, but out in the open?? ;)

LOL :D

Fess up? I still think you're just full of crap. :D

[swardboy]

Over a million jobs have been lost under Obama's six months, that's 'taxing' to a LOT of middle class folks.

[Okla-homey]

Lamest argument the donks have (IMO). They need to find a new horse to beat to death.

Most of us have already admitted that Bush was FAIL as POTUS. I don't see how comparing Brack to him is supposed to help the Libs cause...:confused:

All I know is somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its idiot.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Fess up? I still think you're just full of crap. :D
Ha! See?! That's EGGSAKTLY what you said in your spek commen...er...uh...wait a second...

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

All I know is somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its idiot.That's Hawaii, fella!

[LosAngelesSooner]

Over a million jobs have been lost under Obama's six months, that's 'taxing' to a LOT of middle class folks.And it's a shame that most of those jobs were lost due to Bush's decisions and policies. ;)


All I know is somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its idiot.Shhh...he's in Crawford. :D

[Okla-homey]

not so fast skippy.


And it's a shame that most of those jobs were lost due to Bush's decisions and policies. ;)

aided, abetted and enabled by the Donk-controlled Congress who passed the appropriations bills and who have been running the branch of gubmint that controls the purse-strings since 2006. ;) ;) Those people are such nincompoops they can't even deliver O's pet project and they have super-majorities in both houses. It's positively absurd if you stop to ponder it. But thank goodness for their fecklessness. We may just make it to 2010 when many of the current crop of bums will be thrown out and we can go back to a nice safe gridlocked Congress in which O's radical ideas will all be DOA.

Shhh...he's in Crawford. :D

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

I blame the small portion of the population that votes personally...

[LosAngelesSooner]

not so fast skippy.Fair enough. :)

[MR2-Sooner86]

:pop:

[jkjsooner]

basically if your too dumb to reproduce don't reproduce. if your too worthless get the hell out, if your illegal don't come in..

wow, do we wish it was that simple

It would be nice if it were that simple. Unfortunately it isn't.

What do you do with the children whose parents aren't working (whether it be for a valid reason or not)?

I'm fine with no welfare if someone can answer that question in a way that is satisfactory to most of us. Some will say take the kids away from their parents and give them to someone who will care for them. If you can make that work without infuriating the pro-family contigent (including the conservative pro-family groups) then power to you. Others will say let the kids starve or fend for themselves. I don't think most people will agree to that solution.


Maybe provide quality food centers and shelters specifically for minors and force their parents into allowing the kids to go there. I don't know. I just know many want to remove social services without offering some reasonable plan.

[jkjsooner]

Over a million jobs have been lost under Obama's six months, that's 'taxing' to a LOT of middle class folks.

And under any other President it would have been as bad or worse. I just can't understand how you guys don't see that the seeds of our economic recession were sown a long long time ago.

Blame Acorn, blame Bush, blame Dodd, blame Frank, blame Greenspan, blame Clinton, blame Gramm, blame the regulators, whoever. Just don't try to pin this on the current administration.

Never did I blame the 2001 recession on Bush.

[Collier11]

And under any other President it would have been as bad or worse. .

not true, Obama hasnt shown an ounce of conservative spending and that led to what is going on...keep in mind I said it led to, it didnt cause

[Zbird]

Before I get attacked by the libs on the board, I realize every president is FOS, I just find it amusing regardless

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama's treasury secretary said Sunday he cannot rule out higher taxes to help tame an exploding budget deficit, and his chief economic adviser would not dismiss raising them on middle-class Americans as part of a health care overhaul.

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and National Economic Council Director Larry Summers both sidestepped questions on Obama's intentions about taxes. Geithner said the White House was not ready to rule out a tax hike to lower the federal deficit; Summers said Obama's proposed health care overhaul needs funding from somewhere.



I'm aghast!!!!!! Shades of "Read my lips. No new taxes". Hmmmm. I wonder who said that?

[Curly Bill]

I'm aghast!!!!!! Shades of "Read my lips. No new taxes". Hmmmm. I wonder who said that?

Yeah, lets keep bringing up the past to excuse the current administration. :rolleyes:

Hell, lets have a discussion on slavery, or the treatment of Indians....

[SoonerInFortSmith]

Let's just take all the unemployed people and force them on a boat to colonize Madagascar.
Oh crap! They're knocking my door in as we speak.
How can you people say that all unemployed people could be working if they wanted? That rancher hasn't come knocking on my door offering me a job. The construction company that uses all the illegals doesn't want me. Nor does the chicken plant.
Until now I haven't gone a month without a job in my entire adult life (well over ten years).
Seriously there aren't any jobs there. I could work at McD's and not be able to pay my rent or buy food or clothes for my kids. And when they did offer me insurance the premiums wold be 30% of my salary and the copays/deductibles outrageous.
The only thing keeping my honest, hardworking arse afloat is the fact that I had some unemployment benefits built up.
And if anyone wants to try to force my kids into a shelter they can do it over my dead body! Any takers?

[SoonerBorn68]

I'm aghast!!!!!! Shades of "Read my lips. No new taxes". Hmmmm. I wonder who said that?

That argument is so 1988. Let's focus on 2009.

[sooner ngintunr]

I'm aghast!!!!!! Shades of "Read my lips. No new taxes". Hmmmm. I wonder who said that?

He didn't get a second chance. Hopefully this one won't either.

[Harry Beanbag]

How can you people say that all unemployed people could be working if they wanted?

Who said that?

[Curly Bill]

YOU PEOPLE said that.

[AlbqSooner]

[QUOTE=LosAngelesSooner; 'Christina Romer, chairwoman of the Council of Economic Advisers, said on CNN's State of the Union on Sunday that the administration expects a turnaround in the gross domestic product, and "then we'd expect jobs to normally start growing shortly after that'." '

Awww CRAP! There he goes ruining all of your righteous indignation!!!!! :mad::mad::mad:[/QUOTE]

On the same day, Obama said that the return of jobs will be the final step in the recovery and that unconsionable unemployment levels will continue for a long time. (Okay, he didn't say unconscionable but the point was made.)

Try to keep up.

[Harry Beanbag]

Maybe provide quality food centers and shelters specifically for minors and force their parents into allowing the kids to go there. I don't know.

That's a great idea. We can call them concentration camps or something.



I just know many want to remove social services without offering some reasonable plan.

See, that's why it behooves us to put forth some amount of thought prior to creating these entitlement programs that we can never get rid of. The time has long past for the leaders of this country to stop creating laws and policies based on feel good academic thoughts, hand holding, and vote getting.

[Harry Beanbag]

YOU PEOPLE said that.


Those guys are bastards. :)

[SoonerInFortSmith]

I have an idea. How about we ship off all the illegals and give their jobs to the poor so they don't have to be poor anymore. What? Illegals are here to do the jobs Americans, i.e. the poor don't want. Well, I guess that explains why they're poor.

1 example

[SoonerInFortSmith]

and this

Lazy people get under the skin of your average Okie who says "They should get off their damn *** and try working on my ranch for a change".

;)

[Harry Beanbag]

The only "all" I see is describing illegals.

[SoonerInFortSmith]

We have a lot of people on welfare that should otherwise be working. That tends to tint the color of the lenses with which you view poverty...

Granted, I'm not on welfare, but these statements are generally being aimed at unemployed people or people receiving any type of government assistance.
Maybe "all" wasn't correct, but it wasn't far off. Would you sleep better if I said "general consensus"?

[SoonerInFortSmith]

:pop:

[Harry Beanbag]

:pop:
I slept fine, thanks. You're not very good with descriptive English words are you? "A lot" does not equal "all" or "general consensus". Try again. :pop: :rolleyes:

[Animal Mother]

I slept fine, thanks. You're not very good with descriptive English words are you? "A lot" does not equal "all" or "general consensus". Try again. :pop: :rolleyes:

"Try again"..

That would be what the doctor said when you slid out the chute.

[Harry Beanbag]

"Try again"..

That would be what the doctor said when you slid out the chute.

:rolleyes: Don't forget to brush your teeth before beddie bye time, troll.

[Sooner24]

Making things worse? How? There are a great number of people who work maybe harder than any of us, and they are not able to make ends meet, there are people who cannot find employment, and there are children in this country who benefit from public assistance who end up turning their life around. If we were to let our poor go without help, how soon before they start climbing through our windows and stealing? The country is better off when the poor are taken care of. I have many friends with families who went recieved assistance while in college, and are middle and upper class; what do you say to those people?

They are already doing that to pay for their drug habit.

[Sooner24]

Exactly! i'm a 33 year old man who works the graveyard shift; sometimes 7 nights a week, but guess what? NO HEALTHCARE, and i work a physical job. These plans don't just benefit the lazy and leeches, it helps the workers who serve you fast food, bag your groceries, and load trucks so you can have your trinkets and toys. Dont forget the temp workers as well.

Looks like you need to quit wasting time posting on this message board and go get a part time job so you can afford some. :D

[Sooner24]

If an illegal walks into a hospital under the current health care system, guess what? They get treated and don't have to pay for it. We do.

If a homeless person walks into a hospital or a government run free clinic, guess what? They get treated and don't have to pay for it. We do.

If the legal U.S. citizen who works from 6am until 2pm at McDonald's and then works from 3pm until 11pm at Starbucks gets sick and walks into a hospital under the current health care system, guess what? They either don't get treated or they get billed so astronomically high that they cannot pay their rent that month and their children starve because they don't have health care because their BIG BUSINESS bosses don't cover them.

:les: GRAB THEM BOOTSTRAPS!!!!!

Right there is part of the reason California is drowning in red ink.

[Sooner24]

Good luck.

They outnumber you by a considerable amount and they're out breeding you.

And most of them will live in California increasing the losing battle against getting out of debt.

[Sooner24]

All I know is somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its idiot.

I'm pretty sure you can find him at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

[sooner ngintunr]

Right there is part of the reason California is drowning in red ink.

Too bad his post is not true. If you think that anyone walks into an ER and doesn't get a bill, legal or not, you are sadly mistaken.

It makes for nice rhetoric though. Kind of like "illegals don't pay any taxes" thats a good one too.

[Sooner24]

Too bad his post is not true. If you think that anyone walks into an ER and doesn't get a bill, legal or not, you are sadly mistaken.

It makes for nice rhetoric though. Kind of like "illegals don't pay any taxes" thats a good one too.

If you think they pay their bill you are sadly mistaken. And when you get paid in cash it's hard for the IRS to get your portion of the tax money owed.

[sooner ngintunr]

If you think they pay their bill you are sadly mistaken. And when you get paid in cash it's hard for the IRS to get your portion of the tax money owed.

Why would a legal citizen pay their bill then? No one likes bill collectors, illegals live in homes just like everyone else. ( except with 5 families instead of one:D )

So illegals only get paid in cash nowadays? Plenty of them are on the payroll cept its the rich white guy gettin rich not paying the proper taxes, its not the illegal cheating the system, most of time they're just busting their ***.

[MR2-Sooner86]

:pop:

[Sooner24]

Why would a legal citizen pay their bill then? No one likes bill collectors, illegals live in homes just like everyone else. ( except with 5 families instead of one:D )

So illegals only get paid in cash nowadays? Plenty of them are on the payroll cept its the rich white guy gettin rich not paying the proper taxes, its not the illegal cheating the system, most of time they're just busting their ***.

Nowadays?

When did they not get paid in cash? If you hire an illegal and write him a check guess who gets in trouble? You that's who. That's why they are called ILLEGALS they aren't suppose to be here!

[sooner ngintunr]

Nowadays?

When did they not get paid in cash? If you hire an illegal and write him a check guess who gets in trouble? You that's who. That's why they are called ILLEGALS they aren't suppose to be here!

Thats the problem, you don't get in trouble, the gubbment won't go after employers. The problem is up high in the power structure, but why would they want to give up the power of a cheap work force? They don't.

I write checks for all kinds of services performed at my house, whether they report it to the IRS or not is on them, not me.

Plenty of legals (and illegals) don't get 1099 or W2's, you think it's just the illegals that are not reporting all of their income? I really doubt doubt it.

[Sooner24]

Thats the problem, you don't get in trouble, the gubbment won't go after employers. The problem is up high in the power structure, but why would they want to give up the power of a cheap work force? They don't.

I write checks for all kinds of services performed at my house, whether they report it to the IRS or not is on them, not me.

Plenty of legals (and illegals) don't get 1099 or W2's, you think it's just the illegals that are not reporting all of their income? I really doubt doubt it.

You're right. What was I thinking?

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4182/is_20070913/ai_n20508717/

[sooner ngintunr]

You're right. What was I thinking?

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4182/is_20070913/ai_n20508717/

Good post!!

great debate!

My personal experience is in Ca. Never heard of a raid like that in Ca.

Maybe if Ca got some balls and quit subsidizing the illegal workforce over there, it would start a ripple. CA seems to want them.