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View Full Version : This health care dealio may be his Waterloo



Okla-homey
7/20/2009, 09:43 PM
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/8115/obamaindexjuly202009.jpg

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

Tulsa_Fireman
7/20/2009, 10:07 PM
http://i42.tinypic.com/x3vh94.jpg

yermom
7/20/2009, 10:07 PM
the more i hear the more i don't like it. and i think i'm pretty impartial...

Jerk, that's awful

:eek: :D

Curly Bill
7/20/2009, 10:12 PM
Free Obama Dolls...


LOLOLOLOLOLOL

soonerscuba
7/20/2009, 10:12 PM
Meh, Clinton had Hillarycare and Bush sat at over 85% at one point, I think it's a bit premature to call his presidency a lost cause.

Tulsa_Fireman
7/20/2009, 10:13 PM
That's what you get for thinking.

LOST CAUSE.

[dramaticmusic]

Curly Bill
7/20/2009, 10:13 PM
Meh, Clinton had Hillarycare and Bush sat at over 85% at one point, I think it's a bit premature to call his presidency a lost cause.


...not if we want to be at the front of the line. ;)

Tulsa_Fireman
7/20/2009, 10:15 PM
Sing it with me.

LOST CAUSE.

Curly Bill
7/20/2009, 10:26 PM
lost cause

soonerscuba
7/20/2009, 10:27 PM
...not if we want to be at the front of the line. ;)Well, I was claiming Cheney controlled the weather before it was cool.

GottaHavePride
7/20/2009, 10:28 PM
Well, I don't know what Obama's strategy is, but if I wanted to overhaul something as massive as health care I'd start by having someone shove forward a plan far more ridiculous than what I actually intended to pass. Then after everyone's panties are in a wad you say "OK, let's compromise" and hit them with the plan you actually want to pass.

Just saying...

Curly Bill
7/20/2009, 10:28 PM
Cheney/Bush were too stupid to control anything. ;)

soonerhubs
7/20/2009, 10:41 PM
This talk of outrageous medical bills ruining lives is pretty much bull **** in my opinion. I know a few relatives who, without insurance, incurred extremely high medical bills. Do you know what they did? They got off their asses, went to work, and slowly payed the debt off until they were free of it.

Many of these same folks who bitch about outrageous health care costs will not even hesitate to go into debt for the new car, the fancy computer, or the nice house that is too expensive, but if it's something medical, apparently they are entitled to rob the provider. Bull****, fiddlesticks, and poppycock.

Now although there are some who are less fortunate, there are too many lazy asses who need to relearn, or learn for the first time, the principles of self-reliance and personal accountability. Again, this is not meant to disparage those who have lost jobs do to the economy. However, it is meant to disparage those who are too lazy to support themselves or their families.

No excuses! Laces out! Pull up them damn boot straps and go to work! (I did a job I detested for 6 years to support my family while I went to school, so yes, I do have a little room to talk.)

ndpruitt03
7/21/2009, 12:41 AM
http://www.pjtv.com/video/Louder_With_Crowder/__PJTV_Undercover:_Steven_Crowder_Investigates_Can adaCareWill_ObamaCare_Be_Any_Better%3F/2153/;jsessionid=abcn7m2QB-sP4dni8LBks

Do we really want socialized health care?

King Crimson
7/21/2009, 07:51 AM
1. predictions of Obama's demise from Homey are too numerous to count over the last 16 months. exactly none of them have been correct.

2. Clinton's health care thing failed early in his first term, little too early for the all-against-Brack crew to get their hopes all the way up. immediate gratification in this sense is not likely to be how this unfolds...unless BO is caught in a hotel room with a dead hooker and a live boy, as the expression goes.

XingTheRubicon
7/21/2009, 08:00 AM
yeah, but the Clintons were balancing the budget, reforming welfare and working with a Republican congress. You left out the part where the Clintons quadrupled the national debt.

King Crimson
7/21/2009, 10:29 AM
yeah, but the Clintons were balancing the budget, reforming welfare and working with a Republican congress. You left out the part where the Clintons quadrupled the national debt.

my only point is Clinton overcame a "Waterloo" of health care to be a two term prez. i make no evaluation of his career, merely that using the term "Waterloo" seems a bit premature since it would imply the end of a POTUS. my example shows that it may not be.

ndpruitt03
7/21/2009, 10:47 AM
my only point is Clinton overcame a "Waterloo" of health care to be a two term prez. i make no evaluation of his career, merely that using the term "Waterloo" seems a bit premature since it would imply the end of a POTUS. my example shows that it may not be.

Looking back, Clinton was able to compromise. Making him better than either of the last 2 presidents.

OklahomaTuba
7/21/2009, 02:17 PM
Well, if the healthcare bill is half as successful as Porkulus is, then the GOP should have no problem in 2010 and 2012.

royalfan5
7/21/2009, 05:22 PM
It seems like everybody is trying to hard to declare something over before it has really started, and with the exception of the 2008 OU/NU game, things are rarely over that quickly.

Okla-homey
7/21/2009, 07:03 PM
It seems like everybody is trying to hard to declare something over before it has really started, and with the exception of the 2008 OU/NU game, things are rarely over that quickly.

"It's the economy stupid"

- William Jefferson Clinton

royalfan5
7/21/2009, 07:08 PM
"It's the economy stupid"

- William Jefferson Clinton

We are still within the first 9 months of a term. There doesn't seem to be much point in making breathless declarations about failure when there is a long way to go until any sort of voter referendum on the issue.

JohnnyMack
7/21/2009, 07:22 PM
Obama knows his only chance to do this is to do it now. His approval ratings will decline, regardless of what he does. He'll lose his 60 seat majority in the Senate in a little over a year. Win or lose he has to strike early. He's intent on riding his wave of high approval ratings and has the kind of help in Congress he needs to impart (for better or worse) some legitmate change. What's interesting is how difficult a time he is having.

JohnnyMack
7/21/2009, 07:25 PM
I think this "healthcare reform" is nothing of the sort. I think it's a massively flawed proposal that he's got almost no shot of ramming through as is. What I consider unfortunate is that instead of trying to impart change, he's forcing a square peg into a round hole. I really, really hate politicians.

GottaHavePride
7/21/2009, 08:22 PM
I really, really hate politicians.

This.

olevetonahill
7/21/2009, 09:31 PM
Obama knows his only chance to do this is to do it now. His approval ratings will decline, regardless of what he does. He'll lose his 60 seat majority in the Senate in a little over a year. Win or lose he has to strike early. He's intent on riding his wave of high approval ratings and has the kind of help in Congress he needs to impart (for better or worse) some legitmate change. What's interesting is how difficult a time he is having.

AS Most Know I try to stay out of these Convos
But you sir
http://www.passionateblogger.com/pictures/hit-the-nail-on-the-head-200x200.jpg

ndpruitt03
7/21/2009, 10:26 PM
Obama wants to pass all his reforms before his job performance ratings dip below 50% because at that point he won't be able to pass anything.

olevetonahill
7/21/2009, 10:33 PM
Obama wants to pass all his reforms before his job performance ratings dip below 50% because at that point he won't be able to pass anything.

Aint he a Little Late then ?
:rolleyes:

ndpruitt03
7/21/2009, 11:16 PM
Aint he a Little Late then ?
:rolleyes:

He's at about 57% in job approval ratings.

KC//CRIMSON
7/21/2009, 11:20 PM
He's at about 57% in job approval ratings.

Man, If I didn't know better your avatar looks like Nick Zeppelin if he showered and shaved.

JLEW1818
7/21/2009, 11:21 PM
ah KC/Crimson over the 12,000 post mark!!! congratulations... lets see yah get lucky 13,000 before kickoff!!!!

olevetonahill
7/21/2009, 11:28 PM
Man, If I didn't know better your avatar looks like Nick Zeppelin if he showered and shaved.

My thots Bro :D

ndpruitt03
7/21/2009, 11:51 PM
Man, If I didn't know better your avatar looks like Nick Zeppelin if he showered and shaved.

And you wouldn't be far from the truth.

The Remnant
7/22/2009, 12:39 AM
Some of the posters here are spot on. If Obama's ratings dip below 50%, he will get absolutely zero support from blue dogs.

JLEW1818
7/22/2009, 12:40 AM
exactly... like i said in a previous thread... if he really ****s thing up bad enough, the dems might actually select another Dem to run.... not a history major... but i wanna say the last time that happened, was Grover Cleveland... or something.

ndpruitt03
7/22/2009, 12:45 AM
Some of the posters here are spot on. If Obama's ratings dip below 50%, he will get absolutely zero support from blue dogs.
And specifically his job approval ratings. That is the number that his fellow politicians look at the most. They don't care about his popularity numbers.

JLEW1818
7/22/2009, 12:47 AM
heard a Doc say it today... if the economy is like this in 3 years.... A Republican won't even have to spend much money running... just turn on the ****ing TV at debates...

Octavian
7/22/2009, 03:36 AM
Reagan challenged a sitting POTUS (Ford) in 76. RFK challenged a sitting POTUS in 68.


Nonetheless....this UHC plan is awful. Who cares about Obama's fate? It's bad for the country.

ndpruitt03
7/22/2009, 03:40 AM
Reagan challenged a sitting POTUS (Ford) in 76. RFK challenged a sitting POTUS in 68.


Nonetheless....this UHC plan is awful. Who cares about Obama's fate? It's bad for the country.

I think people really don't see what universal health care is. It's not even really universal and it's not even really cheaper. It just raises tax and it is government controlled. In other words they say if you get it or not. Which is fine for most of us because we aren't probably old or recent immigrants for the most part. What we really want is the same healthcare we have now but a lot cheaper.

yermom
7/22/2009, 10:14 AM
Reagan challenged a sitting POTUS (Ford) in 76. RFK challenged a sitting POTUS in 68.


Nonetheless....this UHC plan is awful. Who cares about Obama's fate? It's bad for the country.

yeah, but Nixon screwed up lots of things ;)

i'm also apprehensive about this UHC plan. but anything getting pushed through speedily like this just seems shady in the first place.

1890MilesToNorman
7/22/2009, 10:19 AM
Why is the gubment sticking it's nose into another area it has no right to???

We are either a free market country or we are not. Make up yer friggin minds.

OklahomaTuba
7/22/2009, 11:44 AM
I guess Obama thinks it will be his Waterloo as well...

Obama Pleads With Concerned Moderate Democrat: "You're Going to Destroy My Presidency"

http://www.nationaljournal.com/congressdaily/hca_20090722_6620.php

adoniijahsooner
7/22/2009, 12:04 PM
Let's be honest. If the GOP is fighting to destroy Obama's presidency, rather than searching for real solutions, i personally don't want them in charge in 2012. i believe from what i read and see from the right, that if Obama came up with a cure for aids, someone from amongst the lunatic fringe would yell, "Be careful, it's laced with Lenin's ****!"

MojoRisen
7/22/2009, 12:12 PM
I call BS on that, what about Romney's alternative. Let's not push a socialized medicine and hide behind well the Republicans don't offer alternatives.

I am liberal on several issues, but providing for everyone including drawing in more illegals and paying for them - is kind of crazy. No free market for start up businesses is ludacris.

adoniijahsooner
7/22/2009, 12:20 PM
I call BS on that, what about Romney's alternative. Let's not push a socialized medicine and hide behind well the Republicans don't offer alternatives.

I am liberal on several issues, but providing for everyone including drawing in more illegals and paying for them - is kind of crazy. No free market for start up businesses is ludacris.

So if romney gives a plan we must follow? the gop had 8 years to do what was right for america, and they mucked it all up. i don't think illegals shuold have healthcare either, but calling one issue the end of a presidency is dumb.

PhilTLL
7/22/2009, 02:41 PM
Why is the gubment sticking it's nose into another area it has no right to???

We are either a free market country or we are not. Make up yer friggin minds.

100% free market, woohoo! That's why there are absolutely no laws covering child labor, minimum wage, overtime, occupational health, arbitration, zoning, insider trading, food and drug purity, or product safety. Yippee-ki-yay and let the buyer beware! USA! USA!

49r
7/22/2009, 03:07 PM
100% free market, woohoo! That's why there are absolutely no laws covering child labor, minimum wage, overtime, occupational health, arbitration, zoning, insider trading, food and drug purity, or product safety. Yippee-ki-yay and let the buyer beware! USA! USA!


The minimum wage thread is over there...moose outside shoulda told ya

Curly Bill
7/22/2009, 03:08 PM
"moose outside shoulda told ya...."


LOL

MojoRisen
7/22/2009, 04:34 PM
So if romney gives a plan we must follow? the gop had 8 years to do what was right for america, and they mucked it all up. i don't think illegals shuold have healthcare either, but calling one issue the end of a presidency is dumb.

All I am saying is the Dems saying this is completely political and no solutions are being offered buy the right - is not being truthful to what the American Majority wants on this particular issue.

ndpruitt03
7/22/2009, 05:03 PM
The thing is we don't want government run health care. Government run health care is just going to make everything more difficult. Canada, England, and France the 3 big countries that have health care, that we want to compare with, have serious doctor shortage problems and long waits in the ER room. Sometimes they have to wait months to get transplants they seriously need. And those countries only have 40-60 million people.

What will happen under healthcare is that it'll get rationed out. Anyone over 60 probably won't get covered because they would be considered expendable, then they would ration it out tow here illegal immigrants don't get it. Then they would ration it out till legal immigrants don't get covered. See what happens? It's not health care for everyone it's healthcare for whoever the government wants to give healthcare to which is the more the very rich, which have it anyway, and middle class that can end up paying for it via taxes every year. And the only way they can really pay for it is if the price on EVERYTHING goes up. Not just income tax, the price of food, gas, goods, you name it.

Okla-homey
7/22/2009, 06:22 PM
I understand in tonight's prime-time plea, he will state that if they don't do this, 14,000 Americans will lose their health insurance every day.

Think of it folks, millions wandering our neighborhoods covered in boils if he doesn't get this legislation creating a ginormous new entitlement that will effectively control about one-sixth of our economy.

King Crimson
7/22/2009, 06:26 PM
if they were festering boils, we'd have a problem.

ndpruitt03
7/22/2009, 06:47 PM
I understand in tonight's prime-time plea, he will state that if they don't do this, 14,000 Americans will lose their health insurance every day.

Think of it folks, millions wandering our neighborhoods covered in boils if he doesn't get this legislation creating a ginormous new entitlement that will effectively control about one-sixth of our economy.


The stat he doesn't put out is how many will lose health insurance each day after his healthcare comes into affect for a year or two. At first it may even be good. We'll have long waits for the doctors office if we have to go but it'll be nice at first.

Then they will start rationing health care saying that there's just no way to fund these people at this time unless there's a tax put out.

After that we'll hear about how they must tax more to keep this health care plan going...

After that they tax not just income they tax gas, then with that every other good will go up. Canada you have to pay about 4.00 per gallon for gas. Here it's around 2.50 right now. With obama care we'll see a tax on gas raising the prices of gas along with everything else.

StoopTroup
7/22/2009, 06:55 PM
I thought the end of America was supposed to happen when Clinton got elected?

Nope...didn't happen.

Thank Goodness for what GWB did for our Country.

It does seem that Obama feels he must get any type of Healthcare passed. From what we've seen and heard rumors of...it's going to be a huge POS if it's voted for, given it's current design. I'm not sure anyone could design a decent system that would help even 60 percent of all Americans who don't have Healthcare.

One of the only things I can see that would help is to require all employers who have offered Healthcare as a benefit to their employees to continue to foot the bill while the Federal Gov't puts a freeze on all Medically associated products and services. That's right...you can't raise your costs.

Colleges and Universities received money for research a few years back and were also allowed to make money off of any products or services they were able to create from the research. Shouldn't that money be put back into the Gov't hands instead of the PHD's who continue to do research on things that don't or won't bring in any dough or reduce the cost of going to a Federal or State funded institution?

Guess what I'm saying is...the Gov't needs to help put a stop to the raising costs before they start to create a Free System for all Americans. The Gov't could use all these think tanks we pour money into and require them to produce new products and services that are much cheaper to make or provide. Right now many Corporations are getting away with murder....literally. If your unable to work because you can't afford a knee replacement....you should be able to get one. If your unable to work because you have asthma...you should be able to get the drugs you need to be able to live a normal life. If you hit your head while walking down the street to the unemployment office and you need to go to the Emergency Room to have the pressure relieved from inside your skull....you should be rushed into the ER as fast as possible....not left in the street to die.

Whatever can be done to help your fellow American to live and be a productive member of Society...whether employed or unemployed....it should happen.

We didn't need entities like United Way to help people 40 years ago....people helped people. When they needed to eat...we fed them. When they needed a ride...they could get one.

We've become a society of "What's in it for me" types.

Sometimes...there is nothing for you...except the feeling you get from knowing you helped another Human Being.

There is something you can't put a cost on IMO.

Our Churches in this Country pour untold amounts of money into helping other people around the World with basic human needs and we sit here today arguing over whether or not our President should be stoned to death in the streets for wanting a better system for the people of this great Country.

What have we become?

JohnnyMack
7/22/2009, 07:25 PM
Somebody had a couple of glasses of wine for dinner...

MojoRisen
7/22/2009, 07:46 PM
I thought the end of America was supposed to happen when Clinton got elected?

Nope...didn't happen.

Thank Goodness for what GWB did for our Country.

It does seem that Obama feels he must get any type of Healthcare passed. From what we've seen and heard rumors of...it's going to be a huge POS if it's voted for, given it's current design. I'm not sure anyone could design a decent system that would help even 60 percent of all Americans who don't have Healthcare.

One of the only things I can see that would help is to require all employers who have offered Healthcare as a benefit to their employees to continue to foot the bill while the Federal Gov't puts a freeze on all Medically associated products and services. That's right...you can't raise your costs.

Colleges and Universities received money for research a few years back and were also allowed to make money off of any products or services they were able to create from the research. Shouldn't that money be put back into the Gov't hands instead of the PHD's who continue to do research on things that don't or won't bring in any dough or reduce the cost of going to a Federal or State funded institution?

Guess what I'm saying is...the Gov't needs to help put a stop to the raising costs before they start to create a Free System for all Americans. The Gov't could use all these think tanks we pour money into and require them to produce new products and services that are much cheaper to make or provide. Right now many Corporations are getting away with murder....literally. If your unable to work because you can't afford a knee replacement....you should be able to get one. If your unable to work because you have asthma...you should be able to get the drugs you need to be able to live a normal life. If you hit your head while walking down the street to the unemployment office and you need to go to the Emergency Room to have the pressure relieved from inside your skull....you should be rushed into the ER as fast as possible....not left in the street to die.

Whatever can be done to help your fellow American to live and be a productive member of Society...whether employed or unemployed....it should happen.

We didn't need entities like United Way to help people 40 years ago....people helped people. When they needed to eat...we fed them. When they needed a ride...they could get one.

We've become a society of "What's in it for me" types.

Sometimes...there is nothing for you...except the feeling you get from knowing you helped another Human Being.

There is something you can't put a cost on IMO.

Our Churches in this Country pour untold amounts of money into helping other people around the World with basic human needs and we sit here today arguing over whether or not our President should be stoned to death in the streets for wanting a better system for the people of this great Country.

What have we become?

System Gamer :pop:

ndpruitt03
7/22/2009, 07:52 PM
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.pdf

There's the entire bill. He says there's no middle income tax, guess he didn't read around pages 202-203

Tulsa_Fireman
7/22/2009, 10:38 PM
What's wrong with federal legislation that forms no oppressive bureaucracy, but dictates to the states to form a body that allows participating individuals and businesses to come together as an insured group, participating in private insurance plans, but taking advantage of the price reduction and coverage found in negotiated plans with a large membership?

Isn't that what Insure Oklahoma is?

Wouldn't this allow coverage to remain in the private sector, give employers, employees, and elective participants an option to join this larger group and enjoy the reduction in benefit costs, as well as give the private providers incentive to make rates competitive in an effort to secure the big "state contract", but also allow the negotiations process to take place on an annual basis?

picasso
7/22/2009, 10:52 PM
Let's be honest. If the GOP is fighting to destroy Obama's presidency, rather than searching for real solutions, i personally don't want them in charge in 2012. i believe from what i read and see from the right, that if Obama came up with a cure for aids, someone from amongst the lunatic fringe would yell, "Be careful, it's laced with Lenin's ****!"

dude. do you think this is a new tactic? Follow politics much?

Obama is being sneaky about getting as much government control on as many things as he can. Oh he has a plan alright.

picasso
7/22/2009, 10:53 PM
So if romney gives a plan we must follow? the gop had 8 years to do what was right for america, and they mucked it all up. i don't think illegals shuold have healthcare either, but calling one issue the end of a presidency is dumb.

the GOP mucked health care up? Please explain.

Octavian
7/22/2009, 11:50 PM
It seems as if the people who are still defending and promoting this proposal are much more interested in the goal than the plan.


It's good to have goals -- but goals aren't plans


Become a billionaire and get a trophy wife = great goal


Rob the Fed and kidnap that Transformers chick = bad plan



This healthcare boondoggle is a great goal with a bad plan

olevetonahill
7/23/2009, 12:21 AM
I thought the end of America was supposed to happen when Clinton got elected?

Nope...didn't happen.

Thank Goodness for what GWB did for our Country.

It does seem that Obama feels he must get any type of Healthcare passed. From what we've seen and heard rumors of...it's going to be a huge POS if it's voted for, given it's current design. I'm not sure anyone could design a decent system that would help even 60 percent of all Americans who don't have Healthcare.

One of the only things I can see that would help is to require all employers who have offered Healthcare as a benefit to their employees to continue to foot the bill while the Federal Gov't puts a freeze on all Medically associated products and services. That's right...you can't raise your costs.

Colleges and Universities received money for research a few years back and were also allowed to make money off of any products or services they were able to create from the research. Shouldn't that money be put back into the Gov't hands instead of the PHD's who continue to do research on things that don't or won't bring in any dough or reduce the cost of going to a Federal or State funded institution?

Guess what I'm saying is...the Gov't needs to help put a stop to the raising costs before they start to create a Free System for all Americans. The Gov't could use all these think tanks we pour money into and require them to produce new products and services that are much cheaper to make or provide. Right now many Corporations are getting away with murder....literally. If your unable to work because you can't afford a knee replacement....you should be able to get one. If your unable to work because you have asthma...you should be able to get the drugs you need to be able to live a normal life. If you hit your head while walking down the street to the unemployment office and you need to go to the Emergency Room to have the pressure relieved from inside your skull....you should be rushed into the ER as fast as possible....not left in the street to die.

Whatever can be done to help your fellow American to live and be a productive member of Society...whether employed or unemployed....it should happen.

We didn't need entities like United Way to help people 40 years ago....people helped people. When they needed to eat...we fed them. When they needed a ride...they could get one.

We've become a society of "What's in it for me" types.

Sometimes...there is nothing for you...except the feeling you get from knowing you helped another Human Being.

There is something you can't put a cost on IMO.

Our Churches in this Country pour untold amounts of money into helping other people around the World with basic human needs and we sit here today arguing over whether or not our President should be stoned to death in the streets for wanting a better system for the people of this great Country.

What have we become?

The Bold part is WHY im helping one of our Own who is in need
Jes sayin

picasso
7/23/2009, 09:10 AM
This healthcare boondoggle is a great goal with a bad plan

I can't agree with you there. Nationalizing the health care industry is not a great goal.

1890MilesToNorman
7/23/2009, 09:19 AM
What's wrong with federal legislation that forms no oppressive bureaucracy, but dictates to the states to form a body that allows participating individuals and businesses to come together as an insured group, participating in private insurance plans, but taking advantage of the price reduction and coverage found in negotiated plans with a large membership?

Isn't that what Insure Oklahoma is?

Because this is not a federal issue, the states can deal with healthcare if they want to. The Feds are overstepping their authority again and no one seems to care.

Tulsa_Fireman
7/23/2009, 09:26 AM
Because this is not a federal issue, the states can deal with healthcare if they want to. The Feds are overstepping their authority again and no one seems to care.

How is it not?

Is not the cost of health care rising nationwide? Is not a large part of rising healthcare costs the burden on systems nationwide from no compensation for services rendered?

This is a federal issue by its very nature. This doesn't stop at state lines. It affects the entirety of the nation. And what I suggest would allow the states to tailor their programs to fit the needs of its residents, but still decree to the states that a program of some sorts needs to be in place to reduce health care premiums for all those willing to participate within the state.

1890MilesToNorman
7/23/2009, 09:32 AM
Any power not specificly declared to the federal government in the constitution belongs to the states. I hate to bring up this worthless document again but it is the law of the land.

jdsooner
7/23/2009, 01:26 PM
Don't celebrate Barack's demise yet.

Obama is only 6 months in and the economy was in the tank when he took office. It appears from today's news that the economy is beginning to improve, with the stock market gaining and house sales rising for the 3rd month in a row. It is a matter of time until the employment numbers improve. If the economy recovers, he is rock solid and his poll numbers will rise.

Unless, of course, there is some terrible event in which our country is attacked. So far we have made the right moves in Iraq and we are keeping up the pressure in Afghanistan and Pakistan. IMO, Obama is doing a better job of fighting terrorism than Bush.

As far as healthcare, Obama is smart to get what he can while he can. The government plan will be an option for people and some of you might choose it if you lose your job or your company decides to cut your healthcare. After going a few months without insurance at age 54 last year, I welcome what he is doing. I see the government option as a safety net for all of us, not government controlled healthcare.

Curly Bill
7/23/2009, 02:34 PM
Don't celebrate Barack's demise yet.

Obama is only 6 months in and the economy was in the tank when he took office. It appears from today's news that the economy is beginning to improve, with the stock market gaining and house sales rising for the 3rd month in a row. It is a matter of time until the employment numbers improve. If the economy recovers, he is rock solid and his poll numbers will rise.

Unless, of course, there is some terrible event in which our country is attacked. So far we have made the right moves in Iraq and we are keeping up the pressure in Afghanistan and Pakistan. IMO, Obama is doing a better job of fighting terrorism than Bush.

As far as healthcare, Obama is smart to get what he can while he can. The government plan will be an option for people and some of you might choose it if you lose your job or your company decides to cut your healthcare. After going a few months without insurance at age 54 last year, I welcome what he is doing. I see the government option as a safety net for all of us, not government controlled healthcare.

You can see it however you want to, but it is what it is, and what it is, is government controlled healthcare.

...and you're rapidly approaching the age under which you'd likely be screwed under government controlled heathcare. ;)

jdsooner
7/23/2009, 02:41 PM
I hope not because I plan to participate in Medicare.

Curly Bill
7/23/2009, 02:51 PM
Some people will try to deny it, but the fact remains that under government controlled healthcare, care is going to be rationed. There's considerable expectation that the peeps that will come out on the short end of that stick are the older peeps.

King Crimson
7/23/2009, 03:04 PM
Peeps can try and deny it but the fact remains that under government controlled healthcare, care is going to be rationed. The general consensus is the peeps that will come out on the short end of that stick are the older peeps.

OK, in your first sentence you suggest that "the peeps" who i assume are the majority that are trying to deny (everyone who has been brainwashed by Obama; the multitude of non-free thinkers)....but then you issue the "general consensus" as a counter-argument as authoritative?

that doesn't really make much sense as interior logic.

Curly Bill
7/23/2009, 03:13 PM
OK, in your first sentence you suggest that "the peeps" who i assume are the majority that are trying to deny (everyone who has been brainwashed by Obama; the multitude of non-free thinkers)....but then you issue the "general consensus" as a counter-argument as authoritative?

that doesn't really make much sense as interior logic.

You know, I actually noticed that as I did it, but didn't feel like changing it.

King Crimson
7/23/2009, 03:19 PM
You know, I actually noticed that as I did it, but didn't feel like changing it.

i do that all the time. sometimes you just have to keep moving forward.

:texan:

though, i will say the plasticity around which the "majority" is used as a rhetorical trope in the media, on this board, or in democracies/republics is an interesting thing to pay attention to.

for instance, Limbaugh will often play the "minority of free thinkers" card and then (about an hour later) talk about how Obama and the PC crew hate "majorities" (of which he considers himself a spokesperson).

the idea of the "majority" as authority is as pure as ideal democracy but as irrational as mob rule. no matter the spokesperson. these are things to pay attention to in the political vernacular of our times...how they are used in instances of persuasion.

Curly Bill
7/23/2009, 03:22 PM
So..you're saying people will manipulate words to their advantage? ;) :D

King Crimson
7/23/2009, 03:26 PM
So..you're saying people will manipulate words to their advantage? ;) :D

i'm saying there are a very special group of words that ought to be subject to more scrutiny the more magical they appear to be.

like freedom
capitalism
free markets
diversity
pluralism
etc.

Tulsa_Fireman
7/23/2009, 03:36 PM
Any power not specificly declared to the federal government in the constitution belongs to the states. I hate to bring up this worthless document again but it is the law of the land.

Don't be retarded.

Once voted as legislation by the elected representation of the states at the federal level, unless dictated by said legislation, it becomes the purview of the federal government due to those states relieving themselves of that right via the passage of said legislation.

States rights isn't even an argument here.

StoopTroup
7/23/2009, 03:43 PM
It was funny to watch the President's speech last night after I wrote my rant. I do think he's got caught up in trying to meet a goal instead of putting together a good system...but it sure did seem he left himself an out last night when he said he wouldn't sign a plan that would raise taxes.

With the Pubs all in a tizzy saying he's going to raise taxes and ruin the Country...he quieted them unless he signs a plan that raises taxes. It would seem he knows the possibility exists that the Healthcare deal won't come to pass and is posturing the blame to others who he gave the authority to make a system.

Pretty amazing what's going on right now.

They are better at covering their asses than the Clintons it would seem.

Curly Bill
7/23/2009, 03:47 PM
He can't blame Republicans if this shat samwich fails. The donks have a majority in both houses, and a filibuster proof senate.

edit...I mean he can, and prolly will blame Repubs, but...

soonervegas
7/23/2009, 05:21 PM
I don't know how jacked I am about government run health care, but I bought some ear medication for my kid last night that ran me $100. That same thing would have cost me $10 5 years ago......it seems to this simpleton that coverage and costs are on opposite tracks. What will that cost me in 5 more years without any cost controls? $300-500?

There has to be a better way than: What's current and a complete government take over.....

Okla-homey
7/23/2009, 05:49 PM
I don't know how jacked I am about government run health care, but I bought some ear medication for my kid last night that ran me $100. That same thing would have cost me $10 5 years ago......it seems to this simpleton that coverage and costs are on opposite tracks. What will that cost me in 5 more years without any cost controls? $300-500?

There has to be a better way than: What's current and a complete government take over.....

Healthcare is expensive no doubt. But its an expense you face as you need services. OTOH, if this shizwhizzle legislation passes, you'll pay more in taxes all time, not just when you need services. I don't care how they spin it, you can't tell me only the folks who make more than $250,000 will pay more in taxes to pay for it. He's recently moderated his response to say the "middle class won't pay more in taxes." WTF is the top end on "middle class" these days? $50K? I dunno.

ndpruitt03
7/23/2009, 06:00 PM
Don't celebrate Barack's demise yet.

Obama is only 6 months in and the economy was in the tank when he took office. It appears from today's news that the economy is beginning to improve, with the stock market gaining and house sales rising for the 3rd month in a row. It is a matter of time until the employment numbers improve. If the economy recovers, he is rock solid and his poll numbers will rise.

Unless, of course, there is some terrible event in which our country is attacked. So far we have made the right moves in Iraq and we are keeping up the pressure in Afghanistan and Pakistan. IMO, Obama is doing a better job of fighting terrorism than Bush.

As far as healthcare, Obama is smart to get what he can while he can. The government plan will be an option for people and some of you might choose it if you lose your job or your company decides to cut your healthcare. After going a few months without insurance at age 54 last year, I welcome what he is doing. I see the government option as a safety net for all of us, not government controlled healthcare.

Well we'll see about the terrorism part. It's way too early to tell. He's doing the right thing by just focusing on Afghanistan but he has done nothing to protect against North Korea or Iran.

On to the bolded part the only reason the economy is "soaring" is because big business is up. And DC is printing money like crazy. If/when the health care stuff passes and cap and trade passes small business will fall apart and the economy will crumble.

jdsooner
7/23/2009, 11:19 PM
Woe is me! The sky is falling! The sky is falling! And it is all Obama's fault.

In today's news: Economists predict the end of the recession by year's end. Unemployment numbers will take longer to improve.

In today's news: Osama bin Laden's son may have been killed by one of our drones.

ndpruitt03
7/24/2009, 12:02 AM
Woe is me! The sky is falling! The sky is falling! And it is all Obama's fault.

In today's news: Economists predict the end of the recession by year's end. Unemployment numbers will take longer to improve.

In today's news: Osama bin Laden's son may have been killed by one of our drones.

If cap and trade and the health care plan pass the recession won't end. The stock market going up is a bit of a mirage because smaller business' are failing, big business is really the only thing steady because of all the bail outs. Once these measures pass the stock market will crash.

Crucifax Autumn
7/24/2009, 12:31 AM
The stock market going up is ALWAYS a mirage. Small businesses and employees were suffering long before the crash. And just to be clear since there is debate on small business around here lately: Small businesses in the sense that politicians imply are the ones with maybe 50 or less employees netting under a mil a year. You know, the guys that don't get ricockulous tax breaks and write-offs. And employees are the people that work for a reasonable salary or hourly rate, not the azzholes with massive bonuses and a corner office.

Crucifax Autumn
7/24/2009, 12:32 AM
And on that same note...Stocks always go up after a company has massive layoffs and force the remaining employees to take pay cuts WHILE taking up the slack left by all the layoffs.

TUSooner
7/24/2009, 03:56 PM
At least my whore-chasing Senator seems to have this right.


Thank you for contacting me in opposition to a public health insurance plan. I appreciate hearing from you on this important issue, and I agree with you.



The non-partisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) predicts that the Obama health care plan will cost more than $1 trillion over the next ten years and will still leave 34 million people uninsured. Other independent studies show 120 million, or 60 percent, of Americans who currently have health coverage, would lose it and would be forced onto the public plan. Also, the CBO Director stated that the proposed plan would hurt the already weakened American economy, creating an even greater national debt.



Like you, I understand that Washington-run health care would decrease access, quality, and choice in health care for Americans. Health care decisions are best made by patients and their doctors, not by bureaucrats and politicians in Washington. Important, life-saving surgeries and procedures are often delayed for people living in other nations that have government-run health care. I support and want health care reform, but cannot support a Washington takeover of health care that decreases access and choice and results in delayed and denied care. Rest assured that I will continue to work in the U.S. Senate on legislation that promotes health care choice for Americans in a free market.



Again, thank you for sharing your thoughts on this important issue. Please do not hesitate to contact me in the future about other issues important to you.

stoopified
7/24/2009, 04:24 PM
More like Dunkirk,people are evacuating themselves all over this plan.

Harry Beanbag
7/25/2009, 10:11 AM
More like Ryan's Steakhouse,people are evacuating themselves all over this plan.

Fixed. :)

Okla-homey
7/25/2009, 03:38 PM
At least my whore-chasing Senator seems to have this right.

I still don't know WTF they couldn't just issue "healthcare debit cards" to the uninsured who can't afford to buy health insurance. You know, credit card-style thingies they could present at the doctors office, off which the doctor's charges could be debited.

After all, we don't have National Hunger Insurance. Instead, we give poor folks a debit card (popularly known as food stamps) they can use at the grocery store to buy chow.

jdsooner
7/25/2009, 03:57 PM
For once you may have something. Then again, that may be what they will do with national health insurance.

Okla-homey
7/26/2009, 01:51 PM
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/8115/obamaindexjuly202009.jpg

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

It continues southward.

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/5323/obamaindexjuly262009.jpg

SanJoaquinSooner
7/27/2009, 02:56 PM
8 pm central CNBC
Meeting of the Minds: The Future of Healthcare

A forum on health-care reform features a panel of industry and government officials exploring various options, and positive and negative aspects of ea…

I watched a preview of tonight's show and it was stated that an obese person costs a company 4 times more, on average, than a cigarette smoker with respect to health care costs... e.g., diabetes and heart disease expenses.

If we returned to the weight of the average American in 1991 we could save a trillion dollars in health care expenses.

cut the fries, chips, rice and rolls.

JohnnyMack
7/27/2009, 03:04 PM
I still don't know WTF they couldn't just issue "healthcare debit cards" to the uninsured who can't afford to buy health insurance. You know, credit card-style thingies they could present at the doctors office, off which the doctor's charges could be debited.

After all, we don't have National Hunger Insurance. Instead, we give poor folks a debit card (popularly known as food stamps) they can use at the grocery store to buy chow.

We do. It's called Medicaid. Doctors keep balking at taking it because they get beat up over their rates. The issuer of Medicaid wants to pay the Dr. less for his services than the Dr. thinks he should be paid.