After much deliberation, my opinion on this battle for Healthcare Reform:

[JohnnyMack]

My final verdict: Don't do it.

I would rather our government spend its time, resources and our money on the following:

Tort reform or at the bare minimum some sort of relief for the rates doctors are forced to pay in malpractice insurance premiums.

Education programs. There is a strong association between increased levels of education and increased health.

What I have read of this proposed plan I don't see how it will reduce the overall cost of healthcare and I don't think levying a tax against the wealthy so that those here illegally are covered is anywhere close to logical.

[TheHumanAlphabet]

My final verdict: Don't do it.

I would rather our government spend its time, resources and our money on the following:

Tort reform or at the bare minimum some sort of relief for the rates doctors are forced to pay in malpractice insurance premiums.

Education programs. There is a strong association between increased levels of education and increased health.

What I have read of this proposed plan I don't see how it will reduce the overall cost of healthcare and I don't think levying a tax against the wealthy so that those here illegally are covered is anywhere close to logical.

Hell froze over - I agree 100%

Biggest bang is tort reform, but I don't think the Trial Lawyers Party - err Dems will agree to this. We make insurance cheaper and the Dr.s don't have to call for procedures and scans to CYA, then less will be performed and medicine becomes cheaper.

Education - best way for people to be healthy and get healthy.

More than anything this is a Progressive grab against our liberties and pocket books - IMO.

[1890MilesToNorman]

Asking politicians to design a healthcare system is like asking a trucker to design an integrated circuit! How much sense does that make?

[OklahomaTuba]

Awesome JM.

At the end of the day we need to figure out ways to make access to excellent health care affordable for everyone. A way that doesn't ration it that can happen without massive central state control as well.

And better yet, if a particular state wants to give its citizens universal health care, let THAT state do it. I have no problem with that. Never know what kind of innovation might happen with all 50 states competing and experimenting on this issue.

But there are some DEEP problems we need to fix, and I hope they are fixed.

[NormanPride]

We already subsidize other industries to keep costs down. Why don't we do that here?

[GrapevineSooner]

UHC is coming in one form or another.

I can accept that because as much as I cringe at the thought of a state controlled healthcare system, I cannot deny that our current system has warts. And therefore, I'm not opposed to 'experimenting' with the system through an individual State's UHC.

[OklahomaTuba]

We already subsidize other industries to keep costs down. Why don't we do that here?We do it in HealthCare as well. Probably much more than any other industry sans the Ag industry.

Problem is, the subsidies we already have are fast bankrupting this country in the form of Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security. This doesn't even include the state level subsidies.

If Obama were to figure those three things out and get those fixed first, even I would have to bow and apologies for all the bad things I've said about him.

But this crap sandwich they are putting together now is like the worst of all worlds it seems to me.

UHC for 40+ Million illegal aliens should have nuked this bill on the spot.

[OklahomaTuba]

I'm not opposed to 'experimenting' with the system through an individual State's UHC.Amen. Me neither.

[NormanPride]

We do it in HealthCare as well. Probably much more than any other industry sans the Ag industry.

Problem is, the subsidies we already have are fast bankrupting this country in the form of Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security. This doesn't even include the state level subsidies.

If Obama were to figure those three things out and get those fixed first, even I would have to bow and apologies for all the bad things I've said about him.

But this crap sandwich they are putting together now is like the worst of all worlds it seems to me.

UHC for 40+ Million illegal aliens should have nuked this bill on the spot.

The problem is that congress seems to have a complete disconnect with the idea of taxing to what you need, and spending only what you have. :mad:

[swardboy]

KUM-BAY-YAH!!!!! I ditto you on the doctors' relief..

I think there's a disconnect between throwing $'s at education and education quality however....just get with the vouchers and let the parents control their children's future.

[soonerscuba]

My final verdict: Don't do it.I agree, but for completely different reasons. I feel that healthcare systems are generally a reflecion of the society that they serve. For example, in America, if you can afford it, it's the best in the world, if you can't, you're SOL. Generally, we simply don't want to contribute to a problem without some class of moral reward like letting people know you care about the enviroment by driving a Prius or letting people know you care about breast cancer, troops, etc with that ribbon on your bumper. Basically, if we lack the societal will to do it right, it will just be another boondoggle, there is a reason the homeland security is mostly effective and the war on drugs isn't, top-down people have way more fear of terrorists than drugs, despite one clearly being more dangerous to the average person. Personally, I think we could benefit a great deal from a streamlined program that worked towards taking for-profit insurance out of the game, but I also realize that it won't be sustainable because political opinions change, and future administrations will change it.

[JohnnyMack]

KUM-BAY-YAH!!!!! I ditto you on the doctors' relief..

I think there's a disconnect between throwing $'s at education and education quality however....just get with the vouchers and let the parents control their children's future.

I'm talking about spending money specifically on educating people as to the risks of certain lifestyle choices. While I'm opposed to enacting laws saying what your restaurant can or can't serve, I think that teaching people that avoiding those foods generally leads to healthier, longer life is of long term benefit not just to the indvidual, but it will lead to reduced healthcare costs.

As we learned about the dangers caused by cigarettes, usage has declined. I think the same thing would happen if we took a stand against the types of food that lead to heart attack, stroke, colon cancer, etc. No one is saying you can't smoke or that you can't eat a double Whopper, rather the consequences of those choices needs to be continually hammered home.

[soonerscuba]

I'm talking about spending money specifically on educating people as to the risks of certain lifestyle choices. While I'm opposed to enacting laws saying what your restaurant can or can't serve, I think that teaching people that avoiding those foods generally leads to healthier, longer life is of long term benefit not just to the indvidual, but it will lead to reduced healthcare costs.

As we learned about the dangers caused by cigarettes, usage has declined. I think the same thing would happen if we took a stand against the types of food that lead to heart attack, stroke, colon cancer, etc. No one is saying you can't smoke or that you can't eat a double Whopper, rather the consequences of those choices needs to be continually hammered home.In that vein, I do think we should tax junk food as much as we do cigs, I would have no problem whatsoever with the concept of a $8 Big Mac.

[JohnnyMack]

In that vein, I do think we should tax junk food as much as we do cigs, I would have no problem whatsoever with the concept of a $8 Big Mac.

I'm a much bigger fan of a use tax like that being enacted than I am telling someone who makes 350k a year plus that he/she has to pay for some lazy bum's healthcare through increased taxes.

[My Opinion Matters]

I agree, but for completely different reasons. I feel that healthcare systems are generally a reflecion of the society that they serve. For example, in America, if you can afford it, it's the best in the world, if you can't, you're SOL. Generally, we simply don't want to contribute to a problem without some class of moral reward like letting people know you care about the enviroment by driving a Prius or letting people know you care about breast cancer, troops, etc with that ribbon on your bumper. Basically, if we lack the societal will to do it right, it will just be another boondoggle, there is a reason the homeland security is mostly effective and the war on drugs isn't, top-down people have way more fear of terrorists than drugs, despite one clearly being more dangerous to the average person. Personally, I think we could benefit a great deal from a streamlined program that worked towards taking for-profit insurance out of the game, but I also realize that it won't be sustainable because political opinions change, and future administrations will change it.

I think we should blow the doors off any sort of government-sponsored subsidies and regulations, and turn this baby into a true free market industry. If I want to auction off my kidney to the highest bidder, I should be able to. I want to able to go to Amazon.com for a hip prosthesis. I want coupons in the yellow pages for my lumbar fusions!!!

[Turd_Ferguson]

I think we should blow the doors off any sort of government-sponsored subsidies and regulations, and turn this baby into a true free market industry. If I want to auction off my kidney to the highest bidder, I should be able to. I want to able to go to Amazon.com for a hip prosthesis. I want coupons in the yellow pages for my lumbar fusions!!!you should be look'n for lobotomy coupon's.

[mdklatt]

The key feature of any serious reform plan has to be the complete dismantlement of employer-provided insurance. It's bad for employees, bad for employers, and creates perverse pricing incentives for insurance companies.

[mdklatt]

I'm a much bigger fan of a use tax like that being enacted than I am telling someone who makes 350k a year plus that he/she has to pay for some lazy bum's healthcare through increased taxes.

Did Tuba steal your password? The unemployed are already being paid for through Medicaid. The bulk of the uninsured are people with crappy jobs.

[My Opinion Matters]

you should be look'n for lobotomy coupon's.

YWIA (http://www.esf.edu/writingprogram/tipsheets/apostrophe.htm)

[Sooner_Bob]

I'm talking about spending money specifically on educating people as to the risks of certain lifestyle choices. While I'm opposed to enacting laws saying what your restaurant can or can't serve, I think that teaching people that avoiding those foods generally leads to healthier, longer life is of long term benefit not just to the indvidual, but it will lead to reduced healthcare costs.

As we learned about the dangers caused by cigarettes, usage has declined. I think the same thing would happen if we took a stand against the types of food that lead to heart attack, stroke, colon cancer, etc. No one is saying you can't smoke or that you can't eat a double Whopper, rather the consequences of those choices needs to be continually hammered home.

Thank you former Surgeon General C. Everett Koop. :)

[Turd_Ferguson]

YWIA (http://www.esf.edu/writingprogram/tipsheets/apostrophe.htm)Heh.

[My Opinion Matters]

Heh.

Being the rabid socialist I am, or whatever, I'm sponsoring self-improvement workshops to weaker members of this society (you) for the betterment of everyone (the boards).

Edit: Nice post edit, btw.

[OklahomaTuba]

The key feature of any serious reform plan has to be the complete dismantlement of employer-provided insurance. It's bad for employees, bad for employers, and creates perverse pricing incentives for insurance companies.Yup.

This is why I like the portable insurance model personally. But I doubt that employer benefit programs will ever go away truthfully, unless they are deemed "illegal" by the liberals.

[JohnnyMack]

Did Tuba steal your password? The unemployed are already being paid for through Medicaid. The bulk of the uninsured are people with crappy jobs.

You're not going to convince me that someone who makes 350k a year is in any way responsible for paying for someone who makes 25k a years health insurance.

And the use tax on **** food is about people taking responsibility for their actions.

[TUSooner]

I agree. Don't do it.

I'm not against some experimenting with plans for efficient universal coverage, but this current deal is looking more and more like a Big Grab that our children will regret.

[OklahomaTuba]

I'm not against some experimenting with plans for efficient universal coverageWhich is a perfect reason to let the States figure it our individually.

[XingTheRubicon]

Did Tuba steal your password? The unemployed are already being paid for through Medicaid. The bulk of the uninsured are people with crappy jobs.

I wonder who funds Medicaid?