Who is the greatest pound-for-pound boxer of all time...

[The Remnant]

Sugar Ray Robinson

[KC//CRIMSON]

General Sports Forum....

[oumartin]

S.R.L

[Sooner_Havok]

o5LkDNu8bVU

[Sooner04]

S.R.L
He's not even the best pound-for-pound boxer named Ray.

[oumartin]

Personal preference for me is all. Loved watching him fight.

[King Crimson]

Hearns got hosed against SRL.

[Sooner04]

The only thing worse than Hagler getting hosed in '87 was that "draw" Hearns received in '89.

[King Crimson]

a month or two ago i watched the Ray Mancini-Livingstone Bramble 14 round blood letting on ESPN. it was unreal.

[ndpruitt03]

Joe Louis
6sv1ph-Ecf0
R7gZRlYyAUo

[OklahomaRed]

Rocky Marciano.

[sooner_born_1960]

I always liked Tommy Hearns.
And Hilmer Kinty(sp?)

[Pricetag]

Rocky Marciano.
Oh, there they go. There they go! Every time I start talkin' 'bout boxing, a white man got to pull Rocky Marciano out 'dey ***. Dat's dey one! Dat's dey one!

[King Crimson]

I always liked Tommy Hearns.
And Hilmer Kinty(sp?)

the Motor City Cobra is one of the great sports nicks of all-time.

[OklahomaRed]

Marciano, with forty-three knockouts to his credit, remains the only heavyweight champion in boxing history to retire having won every fight in his professional career. Nuff said.

[tidalmouse]

I asked Joe Louis,yeh I said "Joe,how Old are you?"
He said he was 137 years old.
That's how old Joe was.

[Sooner04]

Still the greatest fight/brawl I've ever seen:

9VI-M9Yw-28

Hagler, bleeding all over the place from a cut, is in danger of losing the fight by TKO. So the ref comes over...

Ref: Can you see?
Hagler: I ain't missing him, am I?

[The Remnant]

Sugar Ray Robinson 85-0 amateur record
128-1-2 first 131 fights
like alot of fighters he fought well past his prime

[Collier11]

Marciano
Mayweather

[royalfan5]

I think you have to go with Robinson. Marciano also fought in a very weak heavyweight division at the time. Tremendous fighter, but doesn't have the wins to be the tops all time. You probably have to mention Henry Armstrong for his accomplishments as well.

[StoopTroup]

This guy....

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25717069-38200,00.html

Here's his 19 year old knife wielding opponent

http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,6697308,00.jpg

[kbsooner21]

The Hurricane

[The Remnant]

Marciano was a great puncher, but a great boxer? I don't know about that. He could take a punch , only knocked down twice in his career (Walcott, Moore). He could punch with either hand. And he trained like a mad man.Unfortunately the boxing world didn't appreciate his greatness until after he retired. I think the heaviest he ever weighed in for a fight was 187 lbs.

[Collier11]

Hurricane was 27-12?

[Scott D]

The only answer is Sugar Ray Robinson.

You'd be hard pressed to actually find a heavyweight that'd qualify because longevity wasn't exactly a calling card for that division. All the old guys made comebacks after being off the scene for a very long period of time.

Marciano was a hell of a fighter, but his hallmark win was over Joe Louis who was a shell of the fighter he'd been in his prime.

[OUHOMER]

I think if Tyson could have keep his head on straight, he would have been the best...he was brutal when he first showed up.

[The Remnant]

Now if Tyson would have trained like Marciano? Ohhh Boy.

[KC//CRIMSON]

Tyson was great but undersized for a HW. Not sure how far he would have gone..

[Boomer Mooner]

I think if Tyson could have keep his head on straight, he would have been the best...he was brutal when he first showed up.

Tyson wasn't even close in my opinion. He was very intimidating and he intimidated a lot of lesser fighters, but he was dominated by really good fighters like Lewis and Holyfield. Even if it wasn't in his prime, they absolutely dominated him.

[Soonerus]

Ali...

[Boomer Mooner]

Rocky Marciano had 49 win with 43 KO's, no losses no draws. Did I already say 43 of the 49 wins were KO's. Damn.

[KC//CRIMSON]

Tyson wasn't even close in my opinion. He was very intimidating and he intimidated a lot of lesser fighters, but he was dominated by really good fighters like Lewis and Holyfield. Even if it wasn't in his prime, they absolutely dominated him.

I think absolutely dominated him is a bit harsh. Despite Holyfield's numerous headbutts it took him eleven rounds to beat Tyson and it took Lewis eight. If he had fought those guys before his prison sentence I think he would have beat both of them.

[CK Sooner]

General Sports Forum....

He was good, but I wouldn't say that he was the best.

[Boomer Mooner]

Ali...

...lost fights to Frazier, Norton, Leon Spinks, Holmes and Trevor Berbick. He was great, but he wasn't the greatest.

If Frazier's corner hadn't thrown in the towel at the Thrilla' in Manila he probably would have lost that one too. As it was, both Frazier and Ali damn near killed one another in that fight. I'm pretty sure that's when they cut title bouts back to 12 rounds from 15 rounds, due to Ali and Frazier literally almost killing one another.

[Boomer Mooner]

Quote:
Originally Posted by KC//CRIMSON View Post
General Sports Forum....
He was good, but I wouldn't say that he was the best.

Was he the dude from Stoop Troups post that beat up the kid with the knife? They said he boxed in the army.

[KC//CRIMSON]

He was good, but I wouldn't say that he was the best.

Well, that is where Fedor lives and we already know he's the best P4P in the world.

[SoonerBorn68]

Rocky Marciano.


Oh, there they go. There they go, every time I start talkin 'bout boxing, a white man got to pull Rocky Marciano out their ***. That's their one, that's their one. Rocky Marciano. Rocky Marciano. Let me tell you something once and for all. Rocky Marciano was good, but compared to Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano ain't ****.

http://www.whodeyrevolution.com/.a/6a00e550080ede88330115700089ab970c-800wi

[royalfan5]

Rocky Marciano had 49 win with 43 KO's, no losses no draws. Did I already say 43 of the 49 wins were KO's. Damn.

However, only six of those wins involved a world title. Plus his decision wins over Roland LaStarza and Tiger Ted Lowery were very debatable. The 50's weren't a particularly good time for heavyweight boxing talent wise.

[JohnnyMack]

The only answer is Sugar Ray Robinson.

You'd be hard pressed to actually find a heavyweight that'd qualify because longevity wasn't exactly a calling card for that division. All the old guys made comebacks after being off the scene for a very long period of time.

Marciano was a hell of a fighter, but his hallmark win was over Joe Louis who was a shell of the fighter he'd been in his prime.

Yeah, yeah we know he was 137 years old. Blah, blah, blah we get it.

:D

[SoonerBorn68]

Yeah, yeah we know he was 137 years old. Blah, blah, blah we get it.

:D

I don't know how old he was, but he got his *** whupped.

[Collier11]

Sally Kern alert...blahhhtttt!

[OhU1]

2 Ton Tony Galento. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_KHMsYe9hdsE/RsGfZlRxZSI/AAAAAAAAAMA/tc_Mefb34Yo/s320/lj2t.JPG

That's Joe Lewis on the mat by the way after meeting Tony's fist!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_666l0598_gI/SJdppsyD9qI/AAAAAAAAALg/0sa6mhR6uhI/s320/Tony_Galento.jpg

[bluedogok]

Maybe not the " all time best" but I always thought Julio César Chávez should have been in the discussion, but the lighter weight guys never seemed to get the press but most of his fights when he was a champion were pretty impressive.


Chávez finally retired with a record of 107 wins, 6 losses and 2 draws, with 86 knockouts, and was one of the best boxers of all time. He holds records for most successful defenses of world titles (27) and most title fights (37). Chávez also holds the record for the longest undefeated streak in boxing history. His record was 90-0-1 going into his first loss to Frankie Randall and had an 88 fight win streak until his controversial draw with Whitaker.

I still think Hearns was robbed....

[ndpruitt03]

Here's an old school one, he's got to be the first black person to excel in sports at the professional level.

ubUrl4YU2QE

[OklaPony]

The only thing worse than Hagler getting hosed in '87 was that "draw" Hearns received in '89.
I'd have to rate the Lennox Lewis / Evander Holyfield "draw" right up there.

Tough question to pose across eras... right now I'd have to say Mayweather, that boy is bad to the bone. Still has plenty of good fights in him to prove is standing in history.

[Collier11]

If Mayweather beats Marquez and Pac man he has to be in the discussion

[Boomer Mooner]

I think absolutely dominated him is a bit harsh. Despite Holyfield's numerous headbutts it took him eleven rounds to beat Tyson and it took Lewis eight. If he had fought those guys before his prison sentence I think he would have beat both of them.

Okay, ABSOLUTELY dominated may be a little harsh, but they both had their way with Tyson at least in my recollection. As far as head butting goes, Holyfield and Tyson have both been guilty in any of their fights that have gone past a round. Tyson bit him because he was so frustrated though and I think because he knew he didn't have a chance of winning. I think he had even given up on the knockout at that point. As far as Lewis goes, yeah, it took eight but I thought Tyson looked pretty helpless the whole time.

I'll also admit Tyson did look awesome early in his career, but he really started slipping shortly after he fired his trainer (Rooney?) and that was a few years before he went to prison.

I remember watching him fight Marvis Frazier early in his career. I think it was on the Wide World of Sports, but they showed the whole fight, in slow motion, during the credits at the end of the program!

Have to give him credit though, he knocked out some good fighters that had never been KO'd before. I think Spinks was one and Spinks beat Ali. That also gives you some age differences to think about though.

[Collier11]

Against Holyfield, if I recall it was a fairly close fight but Tyson lost his cool after the repeated headbutts and went all cannibal on him.

Against Lewis, if anyone remembers Tyson rocked Lewis in the 1st round but Lewis withstood it, after about the 4th round Tyson was just trying not to be killed

[Sooner04]

Have to give him credit though, he knocked out some good fighters that had never been KO'd before. I think Spinks was one and Spinks beat Ali. That also gives you some age differences to think about though.
Leon Spinks beat Ali. Tyson beat Michael Spinks. And I'm pretty sure Michael Spinks was undefeated at the time. Trevor Berbick beat Ali, and Tyson.........well Tyson just obliterated him.

Tyson fired Rooney shortly after the Spinks fight in '88, if I remember correctly. Until that time you had to look at Tyson as an all-timer. He had guys beat before they even began to train. Yes, Larry was getting old, but he still knew how to handle himself and Tyson just mauled him. Beat him half to death.

Against Holyfield, if I recall it was a fairly close fight but Tyson lost his cool after the repeated headbutts and went all cannibal on him.I think you're thinking of the second fight. Holyfield won the first one by TKO.

[Boomer Mooner]

Against Holyfield, if I recall it was a fairly close fight but Tyson lost his cool after the repeated headbutts and went all cannibal on him.

Against Lewis, if anyone remembers Tyson rocked Lewis in the 1st round but Lewis withstood it, after about the 4th round Tyson was just trying not to be killed

You could be right about the Holyfield fight. I'll admit I can have a bit of a biased memory. With those two fighting I would have considered head butting just part of the fight, they both did it, alot, so I wouldn't really see it as an unfair advantage to Evander. If you could get in the ring and beat Tyson with headbutts, power to you as far as I was concerned.

[Collier11]

If you get the chance watch the documentary that just came out "Tyson"...he talks about how he completely lost it and why he did it in the movie

You are right 04', I meant the 2nd fight

[Boomer Mooner]

If you get the chance watch the documentary that just came out "Tyson"...he talks about how he completely lost it and why he did it in the movie

You are right 04', I meant the 2nd fight

Do you remember which station is carrying this documentary? I need to see it.

There is no doubt in his early career Tyson was a freakin' phenom. I thought he would end up killing someone with that uppercut.

[Sooner04]

There is no doubt in his early career Tyson was a freakin' phenom. I thought he would end up killing someone with that uppercut.
Likewise, the uppercut that Douglas delivered to Tyson would've killed most mortals. That was one of the best punches I've ever seen.

Then that left. BOOM!

wsrsUTtYmeU

[KC//CRIMSON]

Okay, ABSOLUTELY dominated may be a little harsh, but they both had their way with Tyson at least in my recollection. As far as head butting goes, Holyfield and Tyson have both been guilty in any of their fights that have gone past a round. Tyson bit him because he was so frustrated though and I think because he knew he didn't have a chance of winning. I think he had even given up on the knockout at that point. As far as Lewis goes, yeah, it took eight but I thought Tyson looked pretty helpless the whole time.

I'll also admit Tyson did look awesome early in his career, but he really started slipping shortly after he fired his trainer (Rooney?) and that was a few years before he went to prison.

I remember watching him fight Marvis Frazier early in his career. I think it was on the Wide World of Sports, but they showed the whole fight, in slow motion, during the credits at the end of the program!

Have to give him credit though, he knocked out some good fighters that had never been KO'd before. I think Spinks was one and Spinks beat Ali. That also gives you some age differences to think about though.


Holyfield headbutted Tyson so hard in their first fight it buckled his knees and almost knocked him out. He went on to do it again later in the fight and Tyson couldn't focus and that was that, fight over.

In their second fight, Holyfield did it again but the ref didn't call him on it like in their first fight. When it happened again and wasn't called, Tyson lost his schit and went after him.

This is the Tyson documentary. I highly recommend you guys do yourself a favor and watch this: http://www.now-movies.com/movies/Tyson/7034.html

It's awesome. Watch it in full screen by hitting the icon next to the volume control.

[KC//CRIMSON]

Likewise, the uppercut that Douglas delivered to Tyson would've killed most mortals. That was one of the best punches I've ever seen.

Then that left. BOOM!

wsrsUTtYmeU


If I remember correctly there was some controversy on whether he got the full count against him when Tyson knocked him down early in the fight?

[Sooner04]

That's right. Don King, in an effort to save his cash cow, accused the referee of missing the ringside count after Tyson flattened Douglas in the 8th. Maybe it was the 7th. I can't remember.

Anyhow, King thought the title should've been awarded back to Tyson. What he discredits is how alert Douglas was and how he was counting along with the referee while catching his breath. It was no KO punch, just a knockdown.

[SoonerAtKU]

It's considered arrogant for me to nominate myself, isn't it?

[1890MilesToNorman]

Du Ku Kim?

[The Remnant]

When Marciano first fought LaStarza and Lowery, he was basically still learning how to fight. The second LaStarza fight, Marciano knocked him out. After their second fight LaStarza even said that Marciano wasn't the same fighter.

[Scott D]

Joe was 37 (allegedly), and only still fighting because the IRS screwed him big time when he was fighting promotional charity matches during his tour of duty in the Army where the entire purse/gate went to the charity but the IRS decided it was earned income that he wasn't reporting.

[Scott D]

Here's an old school one, he's got to be the first black person to excel in sports at the professional level.

ubUrl4YU2QE

Until the Schmelling fight, the biggest fear of the boxing media was that Joe Louis was going to turn into a Jack Johnson type outside the ring.

[The Remnant]

Joe Louis dated white women also. He just kept it on the down low.

[Scott D]

Which would be why there was paranoia that he'd go Jack Johnson on them.

[royalfan5]

One thing to note with Tyson was his struggles with taller men. Jose Ribalta gave him one of his tougher fights coming up(Blood Green could be mentioned here as well), he wasn't that impressive vs. Bonecrusher Smith and Tony Tucker. Douglas and Lewis knocked him out. We never saw what he would have done vs. Foreman, who although physically faded was one of the most ring savvy fighters out there, who could crack and take a big shot. Tyson also got the benefit of doing a lot of his best work before heavyweights got really big. When he fought Spinks, he outweighed him by 20 lb's. Holyfield was roughly the same size and had put on a lot of weight to move up from Cruiser to campaign at heavy. This isn't to say he isn't towards the very top of all time greats, but that he had some weaknesses.

[bluedogok]

Leon Spinks beat Ali. Tyson beat Michael Spinks. And I'm pretty sure Michael Spinks was undefeated at the time. Trevor Berbick beat Ali, and Tyson.........well Tyson just obliterated him.

Tyson fired Rooney shortly after the Spinks fight in '88, if I remember correctly. Until that time you had to look at Tyson as an all-timer. He had guys beat before they even began to train. Yes, Larry was getting old, but he still knew how to handle himself and Tyson just mauled him. Beat him half to death.
I think you're thinking of the second fight. Holyfield won the first one by TKO.
Once Cus D'amato died, Tyson lost his way and surrounded himself with leeches and scoundrels....speaking of Don King.....

[The Remnant]

Bingo. Bluedogok.

[Scott D]

Not so much Cus dying, but Jacobs dying was the way Don King got his foot in the door.

[tidalmouse]

Du Ku Kim?

Lord help me for laughing at that. :D

Not best but Top 10-15;Alexis Aurguallo.Was Champion forever.Was like Jr.Welterweight or Lightweight. :confused: Fought 2 15 Round Wars against Aaron Pryor.They found out Pryor was taking "Shots" of "Peperment Snapps" between the Late Rounds.Pryor won the Epic Battle by the way.

[Boomer Mooner]

Once Cus D'amato died, Tyson lost his way and surrounded himself with leeches and scoundrels....speaking of Don King.....

He sealed the deal when he fired Rooney. It's too bad Rooney didn't have as much influence on him as Cus.

[Sooner04]

Losing Cus was definitely a blow, but they held things together pretty well. Those who've said it all unraveled when he turned Rooney loose are right on.

If you ever watch the Douglas/Tyson fight you can see the disaster building up in Tyson's corner. I'm not sure he had a single pro over there to help him with his cuts. And what the hell were they using to treat that cut over his eye? Pure amateur hour.

It would've been great to see Tyson keep Rooney around and have him fight some of those really good heavyweights in the early 90s. Bowe, Holyfield, a young Lennox Lewis. Those would've been some wars with Tyson fighting in a competent fashion. Does Foreman come back if Iron Mike still has the belts? That would've been a little more daunting than Michael Moorer.

[Boomer Mooner]

Losing Cus was definitely a blow, but they held things together pretty well. Those who've said it all unraveled when he turned Rooney loose are right on.

If you ever watch the Douglas/Tyson fight you can see the disaster building up in Tyson's corner. I'm not sure he had a single pro over there to help him with his cuts. And what the hell were they using to treat that cut over his eye? Pure amateur hour.

It would've been great to see Tyson keep Rooney around and have him fight some of those really good heavyweights in the early 90s. Bowe, Holyfield, a young Lennox Lewis. Those would've been some wars with Tyson fighting in a competent fashion. Does Foreman come back if Iron Mike still has the belts? That would've been a little more daunting than Michael Moorer.

If Tyson had kept Rooney there is a good chance this thread would have met it's natural conclusion a couple days ago. If Tyson had kept it together and beat those higher caliber fighters in the early 90's he could have proven his greatness beyond a shadow of doubt.

[Scott D]

It's not a coincidence that Tyson spun out of control in 1988.


March 21, 1988 - Tyson knocks out Tony Tubbs to retain the world heavyweight title.

March 23, 1988 - Co-Manager Jim Jacobs dies of Leukemia (Tyson's second father figure after Cus D'Amato)

May 1988 - Tyson dents his Bentley convertible in a traffic accident in Manhattan. He gives the $183,000 car to two cops, later resulting in their suspensions.

June 17, 1988 - Robin Givens and her family publicly accuse Tyson of domestic violence.

June 1988 - "Anyone with a grain of sense would know that if I punched my wife I would rip her head off. It's all lies. I have never laid a finger on her."

June 27, 1988 - Tyson sues manager Bill Cayton to break their contract

June 27, 1988 - Tyson knocks out Michael Spinks in 91 seconds to become undisputed linear heavyweight champion. (Fired Rooney after fight)

July 27, 1988 - Settles Cayton suit out of court, reducing Cayton's managerial share from one-third to 20 percent of purses.

After this life was all Don King.

[Collier11]

Is it too late to nominate Chuck Norris...hands down winnar!

[Scott D]

Bruce Lee killed Chuck Norris! ;)

[Collier11]

and then reinvented himself as a Chuck Norris clone...that explains why Chuck Norris still walks the earth and is so indestructable

[royalfan5]

Losing Cus was definitely a blow, but they held things together pretty well. Those who've said it all unraveled when he turned Rooney loose are right on.

If you ever watch the Douglas/Tyson fight you can see the disaster building up in Tyson's corner. I'm not sure he had a single pro over there to help him with his cuts. And what the hell were they using to treat that cut over his eye? Pure amateur hour.

It would've been great to see Tyson keep Rooney around and have him fight some of those really good heavyweights in the early 90s. Bowe, Holyfield, a young Lennox Lewis. Those would've been some wars with Tyson fighting in a competent fashion. Does Foreman come back if Iron Mike still has the belts? That would've been a little more daunting than Michael Moorer.
Foreman came back right as Tyson won the belts. Tyson generally wanted no part of Foreman, but if Tyson beats Douglas, Holyfield, Ruddock, and Foreman would have been the likely next three in line to fight him. Ruddock was supposed to fight Tyson in November of 1989 but Tyson fell out with injury and that set up the Douglas fight.

[Sooner04]

I didn't remember Foreman's comeback lasting that long. When did he beat Moorer? '94? Tyson had scarfed up all the belts by '87 or so if I remember correctly.

"Razor" Ruddock. I hadn't thought of that dude in ages.

[KC//CRIMSON]

I didn't remember Foreman's comeback lasting that long. When did he beat Moorer? '94? Tyson had scarfed up all the belts by '87 or so if I remember correctly.

"Razor" Ruddock. I hadn't thought of that dude in ages.


His comeback was ten years 87-97 with only three losses. 31-3

[royalfan5]

I didn't remember Foreman's comeback lasting that long. When did he beat Moorer? '94? Tyson had scarfed up all the belts by '87 or so if I remember correctly.

"Razor" Ruddock. I hadn't thought of that dude in ages.

He was Holyfield's first defense in April of 1991. March of 87 was his first fight back. His fight with Moorer was his first since getting beat by Tommy Morrison the prior year. He wore the same trunks as he wore in Zaire the night be beat Moorer.

[Scott D]

I'm impressed he fit in those trunks ;)

[KC//CRIMSON]

He made a killing of those grills.

[IBleedCrimson]

sugar ray robinson easily

[OklaPony]

If I remember correctly there was some controversy on whether he got the full count against him when Tyson knocked him down early in the fight?
The "controversy" was purely manufactured. I watched that fight in its entirety (again) a year or so ago. Douglas beat his Tyson's butt, plain and simple.

It's funny... that fight is one of the events in history that I'll always remember exactly where I was when it happened.

[Boomer Mooner]

The "controversy" was purely manufactured. I watched that fight in its entirety (again) a year or so ago. Douglas beat his Tyson's butt, plain and simple.

It's funny... that fight is one of the events in history that I'll always remember exactly where I was when it happened.

I was at hotel bar in Farmington, NM. Had just graduated from OU and got a job in Farmington. I didn't know a soul in town and there was only another two or three people in the bar and they weren't even watching the fight. Felt like I was watching history and no one to share it with.

[tidalmouse]

I was at hotel bar in Farmington, NM. Had just graduated from OU and got a job in Farmington. I didn't know a soul in town and there was only another two or three people in the bar and they weren't even watching the fight. Felt like I was watching history and no one to share it with.

I know what you mean.I was at a Bar by myself and noone seemed to realize the significance of what Buster Douglas was doing.Whupping the Crap out of "Iron Mike".I Loved it.Tyson crawling around searching for his mouthpiece.

Tyson's buddies from the Neighborhood that were in his corner that night had nothing for him between Rounds.

[KC//CRIMSON]

Originally Posted by OklaPony
The "controversy" was purely manufactured. I watched that fight in its entirety (again) a year or so ago. Douglas beat his Tyson's butt, plain and simple.

I wouldn't say purely manufactured.

gHcbFUTIslI

How many seconds was Douglas down? Looks like he goes down flat at 0:04 to 0:05 and gets up at 0:18.

Here's the whole round.....

4vJ2JG5SAfI&NR=1

[ndpruitt03]

Tyson was done at that point. He got up but he wasn't in any shape to continue the fight and have a chance to win. Even if the ref rules that Tyson wasn't done if that fight continues Tyson gets knocked down for good right after that.

[royalfan5]

I wouldn't say purely manufactured.

gHcbFUTIslI

How many seconds was Douglas down? Looks like he goes down flat at 0:04 to 0:05 and gets up at 0:18.

Here's the whole round.....

4vJ2JG5SAfI&NR=1

However, you can tell Douglas's head is clear and he was just taking an 8 count. Also, the rule is a count of 10, not ten seconds.

[OklaPony]

I wouldn't say purely manufactured.
How many seconds was Douglas down? Looks like he goes down flat at 0:04 to 0:05 and gets up at 0:18.

The split vid shows that both fighters were down for the same amount of time. Douglas appeared to be comparatively cognizant and waiting for 7 or 8 to make a move while Tyson couldn't find his butt with both hands, then was unable to stand without leaning on the ref. Is that not how you see it?

edit - by "purely manufactured" I wasn't inferring that there wasn't something to talk about but rather that it was indeed a mole hill and not a mountain.

[KC//CRIMSON]

However, you can tell Douglas's head is clear and he was just taking an 8 count. Also, the rule is a count of 10, not ten seconds.

When a boxer is down, the referee starts counting from one to 10 seconds. The count now is timed electronically, with a beep sounding for each number, but referees often still choose to call them out. The referee also is required to signal the count to the downed boxer by holding a hand in front of him and counting with his fingers. If the boxer is still down after the 10 seconds, the opponent wins on a knockout.

You can't take an eight count laying on the canvas. It's called a standing eight count after you get up from a knockdown.

You could get knocked down and either be unconscious, reciting Shakespere, or playing with yourself, but if you don't get up by the count of ten it's over. That's my understanding of the rules.

[KC//CRIMSON]

The split vid shows that both fighters were down for the same amount of time. Douglas appeared to be comparatively cognizant and waiting for 7 or 8 to make a move while Tyson couldn't find his butt with both hands, then was unable to stand without leaning on the ref. Is that not how you see it?

edit - by "purely manufactured" I wasn't inferring that there wasn't something to talk about but rather that it was indeed a mole hill and not a mountain.

That's how I see it, but the argument was with Douglas who was knocked down first, therefore he would have lost the fight. It's totally subjective, but they sure were down a long time...

[royalfan5]

When a boxer is down, the referee starts counting from one to 10 seconds. The count now is timed electronically, with a beep sounding for each number, but referees often still choose to call them out. The referee also is required to signal the count to the downed boxer by holding a hand in front of him and counting with his fingers. If the boxer is still down after the 10 seconds, the opponent wins on a knockout.

You can't take an eight count laying on the canvas. It's called a standing eight count after you get up from a knockdown.

You could get knocked down and either be unconscious, reciting Shakespere, or playing with yourself, but if you don't get up by the count of ten it's over.
Douglas was clear headed on the canvas, as evidenced by pounding the canvas in frustration. He could have easily risen sooner. Many fighters are trained not to rise until a count of 8. Hence why 8 was adopted as the mandatory count. A standing 8 count is when the referee stops the action to issue a count of 8 to a fighter who has not touched the canvas with any part of his body. A standing 8 is rarely used in the pro-ranks. Also, while it maybe electronically timed now. The official ruling is still in the refs hands.

[KC//CRIMSON]

Douglas was clear headed on the canvas, as evidenced by pounding the canvas in frustration. He could have easily risen sooner. Many fighters are trained not to rise until a count of 8. Hence why 8 was adopted as the mandatory count. A standing 8 count is when the referee stops the action to issue a count of 8 to a fighter who has not touched the canvas with any part of his body. A standing 8 is rarely used in the pro-ranks. Also, while it maybe electronically timed now. The official ruling is still in the refs hands.

Yeah, you're right, it's before the knockdown but counts as a knockdown with or without falling to the ground. Again, although he could have gotten up, he didn't in time and that's were the argument came from King.

[OklaPony]

You can't take an eight count laying on the canvas. It's called a standing eight count after you get up from a knockdown.

edit - I'm an idiot... rf5 already posted this.

At any rate, it appears to me that both Douglas and Tyson were given the same opportunity to recover and both got up before 10 but Tyson was in no shape to sing Mary Had A Little Lamb, much less continue in a boxing match.

[stoopified]

I always liked Tommy Hearns.
And Hilmer Kinty(sp?)You can't possibly be serious about Kinty.Sean O'Grady beat him like a dog.The most amazing thing about that fight was that Kinty didn't go down.The lights were on (barely) but nobody was home.

[Scott D]

I was working down the street from the Kronk Gym the other day, that is all.

[royalfan5]

I was working down the street from the Kronk Gym the other day, that is all.

Is the original Kronk still open? I know there was talk about shutting it down at one point, but Stewart was trying to raise funds to keep it open. I know guys are still fighting under the Kronk banner, but I didn't know if it was out of the original building.

[Scott D]

Looked open to me, I didn't actually go inside.

[Turd_Ferguson]

Barrera / Morales - I.

Best fight ever.