Clippers in "very serious" talks with Iverson.....

[Salt City Sooner]

Could be interesting to say the least:


The makeover of the Los Angeles Clippers may include a former scoring champion.

The team is in "very serious" talks with Allen Iverson on a contract, the Los Angeles Times reported on Monday. ESPN.com's Marc Stein reported on Sunday that the Memphis Grizzlies have been pursuing Iverson, but owner Michael Heisley thought the Miami Heat had the inside track. The Charlotte Bobcats were also reported to have interest.

Iverson is a 10-time All-Star who has led the league in scoring four times. He has averaged 23.5 points and 5.4 assists per game over his 13 seasons but posted a career low 17.4 ppg average last season.

A bad back limited Iverson to 57 games last season between the Denver Nuggets and Detroit Pistons. He was also embroiled in controversy when he bristled at coming off the bench for Detroit.

The Clippers may be prepared to offer their full mid-level exception of $5.8 million on a one-year contract. The Grizzlies are reportedly willing to offer something in the same neighborhood, but the Heat are thought to be interested in paying him less than half of that figure.

The Clippers drafted Blake Griffin with the first overall pick in this year's NBA draft. They also traded forward Zach Randolph to the Grizzlies for swingman Quentin Richardson.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4325388

[Eielson]

Hopefully this doesn't happen.

[sooner59]

Hopefully this doesn't happen.

You know, my knee-jerk reaction was just what you said. After thinking about it for a minute, I wonder if Iverson wanted to go to the Clippers "because" they got Blake. Maybe he would dish it to him more than he has dished it in the past. Then again, I can also see him taking an insane amount of shots per game and Blake losing touches, which would royally p*** me off.

[tommieharris91]

I would expect the Clippers to do something like this.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Might be a good move. Blake isn't going to be a low post force yet, so why not have an Iverson taking lots of shots. He will clean up a lot of Iverson's misses and give them opportunities.

[Boomer.....]

The more offense in LA, the better for Blake. He shouldn't be forced to carry the team in his first season.

[badger]

http://i27.tinypic.com/2likdar.jpg
just mho... if i could doodle up an illustration of 30 missed shots, aging and injury proneness and attitude I would add that in too... but for the most part, I think this shows what will happen if they bring in AI. :(

[A-M]

http://i27.tinypic.com/2likdar.jpg
just mho... if i could doodle up an illustration of 30 missed shots, aging and injury proneness and attitude I would add that in too... but for the most part, I think this shows what will happen if they bring in AI. :(

That's great. Maybe you should go into the commercial art field to make a living. Just don't quit your day job yet!:D

[Collier11]

Think about it guys, this will only help Blake and here is why.

AI can be the primary score that he needs to be but still have a dominant big guy that can run with him

Blake wont have to carry the burden of the entire team for a few years

This can work out pretty well

[Collier11]

http://i27.tinypic.com/2likdar.jpg
just mho... if i could doodle up an illustration of 30 missed shots, aging and injury proneness and attitude I would add that in too... but for the most part, I think this shows what will happen if they bring in AI. :(

Iverson is the 3rd leading scorer in NBA history and a perennial All Star, hasnt had attitude problems since the earlier part of his career, stays out of trouble now, is still only 34 which means he has atleast 1 or 2 good years left IMO and he plays through more injuries than most pro athletes. He avg over 6 ast per game and as someone else said Blake will get offensive rebounds with AI.

AI can still play at a high level with a team that runs and the Clippers will

[Bruiser53]

Iverson is the 3rd leading scorer in NBA history and a perennial All Star, hasnt had attitude problems since the earlier part of his career, stays out of trouble now, is still only 34 which means he has atleast 1 or 2 good years left IMO and he plays through more injuries than most pro athletes. He avg over 6 ast per game and as someone else said Blake will get offensive rebounds with AI.

AI can still play at a high level with a team that runs and the Clippers will

I seem to recall an attitude once he got moved to the bench this past season in Detroit. Once a headcase, always a headcase. The reason why I like the way the Thunder are going is that they would never sign a player like that and the reason why the Clippers are perennially the suck is that they do. God help Blake in his time in LA

"...but we're talking about practice man...practice?"

[Sooner04]

Iverson is the 3rd leading scorer in NBA history and a perennial All Star, hasnt had attitude problems since the earlier part of his career, stays out of trouble now, is still only 34 which means he has atleast 1 or 2 good years left IMO and he plays through more injuries than most pro athletes. He avg over 6 ast per game and as someone else said Blake will get offensive rebounds with AI.

AI can still play at a high level with a team that runs and the Clippers will
Oh, Collier. (http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1155661/index.htm)

Put me on record right here, right now. Iverson with the Clippers would be a complete, total, unmitigated disaster. Even by Clipper standards.

[Collier11]

I seem to recall an attitude once he got moved to the bench this past season in Detroit. Once a headcase, always a headcase. The reason why I like the way the Thunder are going is that they would never sign a player like that and the reason why the Clippers are perennially the suck is that they do. God help Blake in his time in LA

"...but we're talking about practice man...practice?"

You do remember the coach got fired dont you, you dont bench a player the caliber of AI and not expect him to be upset when you replace him with Rodney frickin Stuckey

[Collier11]

04, the great thing about sports is until you are retired you always have a shot to prove the doubters wrong. And we all knew that the Pistons gig wouldnt work out, you dont take a player like Iverson and stick him in a stagnant offense like Detroit

[Sooner04]

Denver likes to run and those guys were infinitely better once they shipped Iverson out of town.

[Eielson]

As far as Blake is concerned, Iverson has never made his teammates better. Not in Philadelphia, not in Denver, and not in Detroit. So as far as Blake is concerned, bad.

It is undeniable that Iverson had a huge/positive impact on some of those Philadelphia teams, but not so much with his last two teams. All the hype when Iverson teamed up with Carmelo was never met. He didn't do well there, and was traded. Anybody who paid any attention to the NBA this year knows who won that trade. So as far as the Clippers are concerned, bad.

[Collier11]

I agree Eileson, in Philly though he single handedly led that team to the finals, he had nothing but trash on that team with him. IN Denver it was a huge disappointment but I think the problem was that you had two #1 type players, it just didnt mesh and Detroit was always a horrible fit for him. He may not make his teammates better like Jordan or Bron but he can make a team better like LA I think.

[badger]

Iverson is the 3rd leading scorer in NBA history and a perennial All Star, hasnt had attitude problems since the earlier part of his career, stays out of trouble now, is still only 34 which means he has atleast 1 or 2 good years left IMO and he plays through more injuries than most pro athletes. He avg over 6 ast per game and as someone else said Blake will get offensive rebounds with AI.

AI can still play at a high level with a team that runs and the Clippers will

the point of my terribly, terribly doodled pic was to show what would happen to the ball if AI came to the Clips. Suddenly, the ball is out of BG's hands and in AI's instead... aging, ballhog AI.

He's a leading scorer because he takes so many shots.

He's an All-Star because the fans have the vote.

Six assists is NOTHING to brag about.

I don't want AI on the same team as BG... it's already bad enough that the team BG has to be on is the Los Angeles effing Clippers.

[Collier11]

the point of my terribly, terribly doodled pic was to show what would happen to the ball if AI came to the Clips. Suddenly, the ball is out of BG's hands and in AI's instead... aging, ballhog AI.

Iverson averages 6.1 asst per game in his career

He's a leading scorer because he takes so many shots.

Dont most scorers shoot the ball more, other than Carmelo what decent players/scorers has he ever played with? He as avg 22 shots per game for a career while playing with one really good scorer for only 1.5 years. Kobe for a comparison has averaged 19 shots per game while playing with guys like Gasol, Shaq, Odom, etc... for most of his career

He's an All-Star because the fans have the vote.

He's an All-star cus he plays the game the right way and does it at a high level despite being around 5'11''

Six assists is NOTHING to brag about.

For a primary scorer it is really good. Kobe averages 4.6, Wade averages 6.7

I don't want AI on the same team as BG... it's already bad enough that the team BG has to be on is the Los Angeles effing Clippers.

BG does not need to be the #1 option as a rookie, this can only help him

[badger]

Sorry Colly, your research with your stats and all makes for a sound AI argument, but I am still not convinced this is the right move... but then again, it's not like I'm the one that needs convincing. Talk to the old miser that owns the Clips. :D

[Collier11]

The Clips will find a way to screw anything up most likely, having said that I think AI could really help Blake, I could be wrong and I hope im not, only time will tell

[NormanPride]

We get it, Collier, you love the guy. Nobody else does.

[Collier11]

The guy is a 1st ballot HOFer, the guy has been to 10 all star teams and been on 5 or 6 All NBA teams...plenty of ppl like him. Just cus you and Badg dont doesnt make me any diff

[Sooner04]

I admire his ability, but I think he's a detriment to any team these days.

And Iverson could've done so much more. The Eastern Conference was so, so bad in the early part of this decade. Those Philadelphia teams underachieved in my eyes. Always did.

[tommieharris91]

The guy is a 1st ballot HOFer, the guy has been to 10 all star teams and been on 5 or 6 All NBA teams...plenty of ppl like him. Just cus you and Badg dont doesnt make me any diff

You might be the only one who likes him now. He can't score anymore and hogs the ball. He's made every team he's been on over the last 5 years worse. He's been an inefficient shooter and overall player throughout his entire career.

[Collier11]

He still scored 24 ppg with Denver, he didnt score much with Detroit cus their offense didnt call for it. If he goes out with the Clippers or whoever and averages 15ppg ill admit he is done, if he goes out and avg 20-25ppg then he may not be.

[Sooner04]

Basketball is littered with guys who can score 20 and not help their team. The Clippers have featured a roster stacked with guys like that over the last few years: Zach Randolph, Baron Davis, Ricky Davis and Elton Brand just to name a few.

First ballot HOFers make more than one appearance in the NBA Finals. First ballot HOFers see their former team get worse when they leave, not infinitely better like last year's Nuggets.

[Collier11]

wanna bet some money on him being a 1st ballot HOFer? So Barkley wasnt a 1st ballot HOFer? Reggie Miller isnt? Patrick Ewing? Dominique? Steve Nash? etc...

[badger]

The guy is a 1st ballot HOFer, the guy has been to 10 all star teams and been on 5 or 6 All NBA teams...plenty of ppl like him. Just cus you and Badg dont doesnt make me any diff

do we need to do a poll to see if people like AI :D

seriously, it's not a love-hate thing for me... i just don't want him with BG. iverson's been exciting to watch, because you never know what the hell he's gonna do next

[Eielson]

I like Ronny Turiaf.

[Sooner04]

wanna bet some money on him being a 1st ballot HOFer? So Barkley wasnt a 1st ballot HOFer? Reggie Miller isnt? Patrick Ewing? Dominique? Steve Nash? etc...
Good points.

But Barkley went to Phoenix and won an MVP his first year while leading them to the Finals. Nash goes to Phoenix and wins a pair of MVPs. Those guys made their teams better immediately.

Iverson in Denver? Flop.
Iverson in Detroit? Flop.

Did Dominique ever even make it to the Finals? I doubt Reggie Miller is a first ballot guy, but BBall voting may be different than baseball.

Patrick Ewing? The very man behind the infamous Ewing Theory of addition by subtraction?

[NormanPride]

wanna bet some money on him being a 1st ballot HOFer? So Barkley wasnt a 1st ballot HOFer? Reggie Miller isnt? Patrick Ewing? Dominique? Steve Nash? etc...

Yeah, except all those players made their teams craploads better, not worse. AI is a cancer, man. He's the TO of basketball.

[Collier11]

Listen if you guys dont like him thats fine, doesnt hurt my feelings. Ive stated on here several times that Im a big AI fan.

I do disagree strongly about the Philly years cus other than his last season or so with Philly, he got them back to being a top team in the East cus they were down before him and he single handedly led them to the Finals and single handedly beat the unbeatable Lakers in game one

[JLEW1818]

does the word "cancer" mean anything to NBA fans..

Iverson = cancer

He's never been a winner, he's never made any young player better...

[Eielson]

Ronny Turiaf led the Lakers to the Finals.

[JLEW1818]

lol

[Mixer!]

http://i27.tinypic.com/2likdar.jpg

So I'm guessing Marcus Camby isn't going to be happy if AI joins the Clip Joint?

[GrapevineSooner]

Yep, with AI, the Nuggets weren't any better than a 7th seed.

They shipped his *** outta there and got to the Western Conference Finals.

It's not a coincidence, Collier.

[the_ouskull]

http://i27.tinypic.com/2likdar.jpg
just mho... if i could doodle up an illustration of 30 missed shots, aging and injury proneness and attitude I would add that in too... but for the most part, I think this shows what will happen if they bring in AI. :(

If A.I. signs there, I'm dead serious when I say that I would like to commission that "drawing" for a t-shirt.

That is EXACTLY what will happen. Watch how much the guy f'ing dribbles the basketball compared to other players. At least there's an outside shot of he and Blake running a lot of pick-and-roll with the 2nd unit. That'd be nice to see.

the_ouskull

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Hell, they won 19 games last year....they could trade for Will Purdue and probably be just as bad.

[badger]

Hell, they won 19 games last year....they could trade for Will Purdue and probably be just as bad.

did i mention enough already how much i dislike the fact that BG's with the clips? :(

[the_ouskull]

Denver likes to run and those guys were infinitely better once they shipped Iverson out of town.

True, but you can't ignore the fact that Chauncey was shipped INTO town in his place. I'll drive the "get you there, even when it's rough out" truck over the "look at how much attention I can get you" Ferrari any day, man. They were able to become better after losing Iverson, but they added a bit too.

Don't get me wrong. I agree with you on Denver being better once they got rid of him. But, I don't think that Iverson is a horrible player. Not at all. I think that he's been deserving of his All-Star status throughout his career, and I used to tout him when many others derided him for being "too hip-hop." He is a Hall of Fame-caliber player. (Don't make me make a call on that right now... Please.)

But, also, paraphrasing Dennis Green, he is who we think he is. He has played a particular style of basketball everywhere that he's ever played, regardless of that team's style of basketball. L.A. won't be any different. He's just looking to come across some more endorsement money before his career winds down. Being a scorer in a town like L.A, or Miami, will do that. Being one in Memphis, where nobody knows there's basketball, will not do that. The team that makes the most sense, basketball-wise, for him, seems to be Memphis. He's looking at Miami and L.A. Two teams with both established stars (Baron Davis and D-Wade), and talented young players. (Eric Gordon, Blake Griffin, and, uh... Dorrell Wright? Okay, so two teams with established stars, who, like Iverson, need the ball in their hands a great deal of the time to be effective.

If the Clips were really looking to bring in a guard, they could have gotten Dontahy (or however it's spelled) Jones from Denver on the cheap like Indiana did. He would have been ideal 'cause he's a good defender, making up for Davis' lack of defense, and he could spell either Davis or Gordon at times, or even allow Dunleavy (not that he'd EVER think of it) to go three-guard with Davis, Gordon, and Jones, and then Blake and either Camby (defense) or Kaman (offense) and run with it. That's three players who play well off of the pick-and-roll and spot up shoot well, playing 1) together, and 2) with players who screen as well as Blake and Camby. The potential for some sickness is there... which is why I hate that it's the Clippers, 'cause Dunleavy will find a way to screw the pooch. I hate that guy.

the_ouskull

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Blake and Iverson both make this team tougher. I can't see how that will hurt this soft as hell team

[badger]

of COURSE I knew marcus camby was No. 23, so here is my final take on the 'toon:
http://i31.tinypic.com/2uy0umu.jpg

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

That should replace the Sistine Chapel as the most awe inspiring artwork worldwide!!

[the_ouskull]

the point of my terribly, terribly doodled pic was to show what would happen to the ball if AI came to the Clips. Suddenly, the ball is out of BG's hands and in AI's instead... aging, ballhog AI.

Iverson averages 6.1 asst per game in his career

Doug Gottlieb led the nation in assists. So what? He attacks the basket and gets double-teamed so many time in a game that he's likely to turn the ball over into a teammate's hands for half of those "assists." Also, when you've got the ball in your hands as much as he does, it's hard not to get a few... And, his lowest career assist totals came during the "championship years" in Philly, when they made their Finals run, averaging a career-low 4.6 per in 2000/01.

He's a leading scorer because he takes so many shots.

Don't most scorers shoot the ball more, other than Carmelo what decent players/scorers has he ever played with? He as avg 22 shots per game for a career while playing with one really good scorer for only 1.5 years. Kobe for a comparison has averaged 19 shots per game while playing with guys like Gasol, Shaq, Odom, etc... for most of his career

Many scorers do, in fact, shoot the ball. However, not very many do so more poorly than Iverson. Since entering the league, Iverson has shot the basketball 15,845 times.. through the 2008 season. (sorry, my stats database hasn't updated yet...) The next closest person is Kobe, with 730 fewer attempts in 43 MORE games. (Holy sh*t, Iverson even shoots the ball more than Kobe! Oh Em Gee. In fact, you have to go to #13 on this list, Jerry Stackhouse, to find someone with fewer career games than Iverson. But, Stackhouse also averages 14.94 shots per game. Considerably fewer than Iverson's all-world 23.54 shots per game. Out of the Top 15, only Jason Kidd, Baron Davis, and Stackhouse, my favorite, have a lower FG% than Iverson's 42.3%. Like Gottlieb, who I mentioned earlier, averaged so many assists per game because he can't shoot.. Iverson averages so many points per game because he won't pass.

One last point to really slam home what I'm saying about the way that he dominates the ball, both through shooting it AND dribbling it... Iverson has MISSED more field goals, 9136, than Baron Davis, who is #14 on the Most Field Goals Attempted (for guards who have played more than 100 games in the NBA from Iverson's rookie year through the 2008 season) list has even ATTEMPTED, at 9100. You want stats, I got stats... I mean, I saved this one for last, but it says a lot that, rather than type in "Iverson" to find his stats, I just used my mouse to do a search by Field Goals Attempted. Sad.

He's an All-Star because the fans have the vote.

He's an All-star cus he plays the game the right way and does it at a high level despite being around 5'11''

If by, "the right way" you mean that he dominates the basketball and when he's playing for a team, that team needs to expect their offense to revolve around him while he's on the court. The only players that can play with him are spot-up shooters (kick out from the drive) and defensive-minded big men (who don't need the ball in the post). And, how many coaches has this guy, who doesn't practice, by the way, played for? Getting your coach ran out of town every few years isn't exactly "the right way." Although, since he IS good at that, maybe he could come to the Clippers for a while. Not play, just sit there, next to Dunleavy... waiting... Sigh.

Six assists is NOTHING to brag about.

For a primary scorer it is really good. Kobe averages 4.6, Wade averages 6.7

I have already addressed this in parts of this post, but let me say this now: Kobe is a two-guard. Wade is a two-guard. Iverson is a 5'11'' two guard. Considering the "quality" of some of the shots he takes, he should average 10 per game, not 6.3. Also, a large part of his problem, and why his assists per game have gone up these past few seasons, kind of, is because he's NOT a primary scorer anymore, but he still shoots like one.

He shot 19.0 per game two seasons ago, and (update) 14.7 per game last (08/09) season. In fact, in the past two seasons, he's 4th in Field Goals Attempted, behind Kobe, LeBron, and Vince Carter. Is he an elite scorer like those players are? No. Has he been during that time, being partnered up with Carmelo in Denver, and Rip Hamilton in Detroit? No. Did he go ahead and shoot like one anyway? Yes.

I don't want AI on the same team as BG... it's already bad enough that the team BG has to be on is the Los Angeles effing Clippers.

BG does not need to be the #1 option as a rookie, this can only help him

I fail to see how playing with a selfish, me-first (as evidenced by his, "If I don't start, I don't play" decree of last season) attitude ex-superstar is going to "help" Blake as a rookie. Call me crazy. I used to love Iverson... but nobody wants to see Muhammad Ali getting beat up. Nobody wants to see 40 year-old Michael Jordan. He needs to accept his lessened role with grace and dignity, and, until he proves he can do that, then I don't want to see the likes of him playing with Blake. My numbers aren't personal reasons. But they don't lie either...

So I'll end with this one. Since entering the league in 1995/96, no player in basketball has turned the ball over more than Allen Iverson's 3053, or 3.7 per game. The next closest player to Iverson is Jason Kidd, with 3026 turnovers... but in 118 more games, and averaging more assists per game (9.7 - 6.3) in the process too.

So Iverson shoots the ball more than anybody else in the league, at a lower percentage than anybody else who shoots the ball as often, and he leads the league in turnovers as well. Why WOULDN'T Blake want to play with him...? :pop:

the_ouskull

[badger]

Skull's my hero :D

Dare me to respond to skull's response to colly's response to me? Can a post take up 50 screen lengths until the scroller on your mouse breaks and your pointer finger breaks off? Hope for change YES WE CAN! :D

[NormanPride]

With your penchant for posting pictures, it's possible you'll pulverize our posting place.

[Collier11]

[QUOTE=the_ouskull;2645634]Doug Gottlieb led the nation in assists. So what? He attacks the basket and gets double-teamed so many time in a game that he's likely to turn the ball over into a teammate's hands for half of those "assists." Also, when you've got the ball in your hands as much as he does, it's hard not to get a few... And, his lowest career assist totals came during the "championship years" in Philly, when they made their Finals run, averaging a career-low 4.6 per in 2000/01.

Doug Gottlieb, really Skull? Gottlieb couldnt throw a stone in the ocean if he was standing on the beach, Iverson is one of the best scorers in NBA history. Horrible comparison

Many scorers do, in fact, shoot the ball. However, not very many do so more poorly than Iverson. Since entering the league, Iverson has shot the basketball 15,845 times.. through the 2008 season. (sorry, my stats database hasn't updated yet...) The next closest person is Kobe, with 730 fewer attempts in 43 MORE games. (Holy sh*t, Iverson even shoots the ball more than Kobe! Oh Em Gee. In fact, you have to go to #13 on this list, Jerry Stackhouse, to find someone with fewer career games than Iverson. But, Stackhouse also averages 14.94 shots per game. Considerably fewer than Iverson's all-world 23.54 shots per game. Out of the Top 15, only Jason Kidd, Baron Davis, and Stackhouse, my favorite, have a lower FG% than Iverson's 42.3%. Like Gottlieb, who I mentioned earlier, averaged so many assists per game because he can't shoot.. Iverson averages so many points per game because he won't pass.

Completely off base here, 1st IVerson shoots so much because every single team he was on in Philly he was not only the #1 option, he was the only option. Aaron Mckie? Eric Snow? Give me a break.

Lets look at this also,

In Kobes three highest scoring seasons he averaged 23, 24, and 27 shots per game and he had much better players on his team during all of those seasons than AI ever had minus the 1.5 seasons with Carmelo. Iversons 3 highest are 27,25,25...considering the talent that Iverson had with him id say thats not too bad. Now Kobe does shoot better and obviously is a better all around player but we are talking about Iversons ability to be a team player and not a cancer here.

Kobes career steals are 1.5, AIs are 2.2. Obviously Kobe is a better on ball defender but keep in mind what we are talking about here.

Kobe 5.3 ast, 2.9 TOs
Iverson 6.2 ast and 3.6 TOs pretty comparable

Kobe is also a pure shooting 2 while Iverson is a 5'11'' scoring 2

[i]If by, "the right way" you mean that he dominates the basketball and when he's playing for a team, that team needs to expect their offense to revolve around him while he's on the court. The only players that can play with him are spot-up shooters (kick out from the drive) and defensive-minded big men (who don't need the ball in the post). And, how many coaches has this guy, who doesn't practice, by the way, played for? Getting your coach ran out of town every few years isn't exactly "the right way." Although, since he IS good at that, maybe he could come to the Clippers for a while. Not play, just sit there, next to Dunleavy... waiting... Sigh.

by right way I mean someone who plays 42 minutes a game, plays his tail off every night, plays through injuries, etc... Ive never heard any of his ex teammates say anything bad about him, ive heard plenty about Kobe even with the rings

I have already addressed this in parts of this post, but let me say this now: Kobe is a two-guard. Wade is a two-guard. Iverson is a 5'11'' two guard. Considering the "quality" of some of the shots he takes, he should average 10 per game, not 6.3. Also, a large part of his problem, and why his assists per game have gone up these past few seasons, kind of, is because he's NOT a primary scorer anymore, but he still shoots like one.

This isnt true, Iverson had three of his highest ast years in three of his highest scoring years

He shot 19.0 per game two seasons ago, and (update) 14.7 per game last (08/09) season. In fact, in the past two seasons, he's 4th in Field Goals Attempted, behind Kobe, LeBron, and Vince Carter. Is he an elite scorer like those players are? No. Has he been during that time, being partnered up with Carmelo in Denver, and Rip Hamilton in Detroit? No. Did he go ahead and shoot like one anyway? Yes.

Vince Carter? AI may not be a 30 a game guy anymore but he can certainly still score 23-25

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

It is for one year, it seems like a fair gamble in my mind. The Clippers will not a playoff team next year even if Blake is the second coming of Wilt Chamberlain and Iverson is the second coming of Oscar Robertson. Jordan might not make the playoffs with this crap.

[badger]

Jordan might not make the playoffs with this crap.

His track record of making the playoffs with crap is not very good :D

http://newlevelsports.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/michael-jordan-wizards.jpg

[JLEW1818]

MJ averaged 20 points a game, as a 40 year old man..... simply amazing..

[Eielson]

After the Clippers eked out an 88-86 win over the Hornets on Tuesday, Ralph Lawler asked Head Coach and General Manager Mike Dunleavy what he thought of the game, and he quickly responded, "I like Blake Griffin."

[Eielson]

MJ averaged 20 points a game, as a 40 year old man..... simply amazing..

Not again...

[JLEW1818]

Not again...

:D

MJ hater!!!

[Eielson]

It is for one year, it seems like a fair gamble in my mind. The Clippers will not a playoff team next year even if Blake is the second coming of Wilt Chamberlain and Iverson is the second coming of Oscar Robertson. Jordan might not make the playoffs with this crap.

Well, I don't know if Oscar Robertson and Wilt Chamberlain would ever miss the playoffs if they were on their on a team together.

There is a ton of talent on this team, though. Obviously it didn't work out too great for them last year, but if this were any team other than the Clippers I would expect them to turn it around fairly soon.

[Eielson]

If you want to see a worthless roster...

http://www.nba.com/bucks/roster/index.html

[JLEW1818]

dang.. we could fight for PT on that team

[Sooner04]

If you want to see a worthless roster...

http://www.nba.com/bucks/roster/index.html
Kelvin can't coach NBA players so he stocked his roster full of guys who don't belong in the NBA.

[badger]

Kelvin can't coach NBA players

Funny... he can't (http://www.tulsaworld.com/sports/article.aspx?subjectid=92&articleid=20090701_234_B1_INDIAN168705&archive=yes) coach NCAA players either :D

[Collier11]

he can call them though

[the_ouskull]

he can call them though

And now I'll call you...

-----

Key:

Me
You
Me again

---

Doug Gottlieb led the nation in assists. So what? He attacks the basket and gets double-teamed so many time in a game that he's likely to turn the ball over into a teammate's hands for half of those "assists." Also, when you've got the ball in your hands as much as he does, it's hard not to get a few... And, his lowest career assist totals came during the "championship years" in Philly, when they made their Finals run, averaging a career-low 4.6 per in 2000/01.

Doug Gottlieb, really Skull? Gottlieb couldnt throw a stone in the ocean if he was standing on the beach, Iverson is one of the best scorers in NBA history. Horrible comparison

Not as bad as you think. Hopefully you kept reading...

Many scorers do, in fact, shoot the ball. However, not very many do so more poorly than Iverson. Since entering the league, Iverson has shot the basketball 15,845 times.. through the 2008 season. (sorry, my stats database hasn't updated yet...) The next closest person is Kobe, with 730 fewer attempts in 43 MORE games. (Holy sh*t, Iverson even shoots the ball more than Kobe! Oh Em Gee. In fact, you have to go to #13 on this list, Jerry Stackhouse, to find someone with fewer career games than Iverson. But, Stackhouse also averages 14.94 shots per game. Considerably fewer than Iverson's all-world 23.54 shots per game. Out of the Top 15, only Jason Kidd, Baron Davis, and Stackhouse, my favorite, have a lower FG% than Iverson's 42.3%. Like Gottlieb, who I mentioned earlier, averaged so many assists per game because he can't shoot.. Iverson averages so many points per game because he won't pass.

Completely off base here, 1st IVerson shoots so much because every single team he was on in Philly he was not only the #1 option, he was the only option. Aaron Mckie? Eric Snow? Give me a break.

Allow me to interrupt for a second.

As a rookie, Iverson played with two prolific (at the time) scorers. Jerry Stackhouse, who averaged 20+ that season; and Derrick Coleman (shut up) who averaged 18 points and 10 boards and wasn't completely Derrick Coleman yet. (In fact, Coleman, not Iverson, led that team in efficency.) And, oddly enough, even with those players on his team, Iverson had one of his best statistical seasons, starting with his 7.5 assists per game. He also averaged a team-high 23.5 points per game, and stole the ball twice per game to (statistically, anyway) help cover his 4.4 turnovers. He shot his career average, 42%, from the field (41.6) but shot a surprising 34% from the arc. Big boy numbers! He has since only shot better than that from behind the arc twice; the past two seasons. So yes, he's been too busy jacking shots up for most of his career to ever work on becoming a better shooter. I hear that players work on that kind of thing in practice. It's a shame we all know how Iverson feels about practice. I've had to explain to little kids that I coached how Iverson felt about practice.

For most of his career, Iverson hasn't played with a lot of talent; especially offensive talent, and I'll graciously grant that. But, he hasn't made any effort to improve his offensive efficiency either. He could have tried to make his team better instead of make it more his. Only now, as he's realizing that he can't crash to the basket with reckless abandon anymore, physical freak that he is, at his age, is he starting to learn to shoot, and it's paid off. Like I said, his 3pt% is higher now than it's ever been... but at a 31% mark for his career, he's still got a lil' bit to go.

Lets look at this also,

In Kobes three highest scoring seasons he averaged 23, 24, and 27 shots per game and he had much better players on his team during all of those seasons than AI ever had minus the 1.5 seasons with Carmelo. Iversons 3 highest are 27,25,25...considering the talent that Iverson had with him id say thats not too bad. Now Kobe does shoot better and obviously is a better all around player but we are talking about Iversons ability to be a team player and not a cancer here.

Kobes career steals are 1.5, AIs are 2.2. Obviously Kobe is a better on ball defender but keep in mind what we are talking about here.

Kobe 5.3 ast, 2.9 TOs
Iverson 6.2 ast and 3.6 TOs pretty comparable

Kobe is also a pure shooting 2 while Iverson is a 5'11'' scoring 2

Breaking Kobe doesn't fix Iverson.

---

If by, "the right way" you mean that he dominates the basketball and when he's playing for a team, that team needs to expect their offense to revolve around him while he's on the court. The only players that can play with him are spot-up shooters (kick out from the drive) and defensive-minded big men (who don't need the ball in the post). And, how many coaches has this guy, who doesn't practice, by the way, played for? Getting your coach ran out of town every few years isn't exactly "the right way." Although, since he IS good at that, maybe he could come to the Clippers for a while. Not play, just sit there, next to Dunleavy... waiting... Sigh.

by right way I mean someone who plays 42 minutes a game, plays his tail off every night, plays through injuries, etc... Ive never heard any of his ex teammates say anything bad about him, ive heard plenty about Kobe even with the rings

As for no players ever complaining about him. I mean, you know that the man's been arrested on gun charges, right? You know this? Also, winning players get covered more. When Iverson's Philly teams were winning, he was all over the news. Also, once again, people are "less scared" to say something bad about Kobe. NOBODY likes playing with the guy that dribble for 15 seconds and then jacks up a shot, good or bad, no matter what you did/were doing to get open. NOBODY.

I have already addressed this in parts of this post, but let me say this now: Kobe is a two-guard. Wade is a two-guard. Iverson is a 5'11'' two guard. Considering the "quality" of some of the shots he takes, he should average 10 per game, not 6.3. Also, a large part of his problem, and why his assists per game have gone up these past few seasons, kind of, is because he's NOT a primary scorer anymore, but he still shoots like one.

This isnt true, Iverson had three of his highest ast years in three of his highest scoring years

Those were also seasons in his physical prime, and in that prime, he was a beast of a physical freak-of-nature and sh*t. The abuse he takes, the punishment he takes, the quickness, the attitude...

He's not that guy now. Those years that you're talking about were also some of his higher turnover years, including a career-high 4.6 per game in 04/05.

He shot 19.0 per game two seasons ago, and (update) 14.7 per game last (08/09) season. In fact, in the past two seasons, he's 4th in Field Goals Attempted, behind Kobe, LeBron, and Vince Carter. Is he an elite scorer like those players are? No. Has he been during that time, being partnered up with Carmelo in Denver, and Rip Hamilton in Detroit? No. Did he go ahead and shoot like one anyway? Yes.

Vince Carter? AI may not be a 30 a game guy anymore but he can certainly still score 23-25

Yeah, Vince Carter shoots the ball a lot. Just like Iverson. Come to think of it, he's not much better at it either. Anyway, of COURSE Iverson can score 23-25... on a team that either is already a bad team, or a team that his domination of the basketball will MAKE a bad team for him to shoot as much as he needs to to get that 23-25.

---

If Iverson would be willing to score 14-17 per game, and run an offense, he'd get another five years in the league. He's not, and it was proven last year in Detroit. Yeah, they were asking him to step aside for Rodney Stuckey, but Stuckey is the future of the team and Iverson's the vet. He knows how it works. If he said he'd take a reduced role, then he should have done so without complaint. Then, when he saw that it was for real, getting "hurt," and not finishing out the season? B*tch move. F*ck Allen Iverson! He's wanting to go to L.A. or Miami for the endorsement opps, not for "the chance to go to a proven winner," or to "just try to make the team better." He wants to go for him... same as he always has. It's just more sad now 'cause he's old.

the_ouskull

[Collier11]

When we see what team he goes to Ill make you a friendly wager, perhaps a 12 pack of beer, hows that sound, I know you drink cus ive drank with ya.

If he goes to LA or Memphis, he will avg atleast 21ppg and 6.5 astpg and their win total will go up.

If not ill pony up, if so you pony up...Deal?


Also, im with you, if he went to Miami I think he would sacrifice points to win, the other two scenarios they need him to be the guy for atleast another year or two

[NormanPride]

6.5 steals per game, or assists per game?

[Eielson]

21 points and 6.5 steals (?) seem like an awful lot to predict for somebody who will likely come off the bench.

[badger]

If Iverson averages 6.5 steals per game even over a 10 consecutive game stretch, not even the entire season, i'll make him my avvie and never say another bad word about him again...

...I'm not worried in the least :D

[Collier11]

sh*t, you know what I meant

[JLEW1818]

but guys... we are still talking about Practice

[the_ouskull]

When we see what team he goes to Ill make you a friendly wager, perhaps a 12 pack of beer, hows that sound, I know you drink cus ive drank with ya.

If he goes to LA or Memphis, he will avg atleast 21ppg and 6.5 astpg and their win total will go up.

If not ill pony up, if so you pony up...Deal?

No. This isn't about Memphis. I think that he'll be okay there, and likely go for 20+ and 6 dimes. (Steals. Lol. You f*ckt*rd.) This is about L.A. The Clip Joint. Blake Griffin will play better basketball when Allen Iverson isn't on the court with him. I'll find his +/- and post it on here quite regularly, trust me.

Also, im with you, if he went to Miami I think he would sacrifice points to win, the other two scenarios they need him to be the guy for atleast another year or two

You don't see it, man! YOU'RE making him "The Guy!" He doesn't need to be "the guy" in EITHER of those scenarios!

LAC: Last season, they had seven players average double-digit scoring. Only one of those, the worst one, I might add, is gone. Blake will likely replace him. Scoring wasn't their issue. Scoring at the expense of the TEAM was their issue. Will A.I. they go right back to that and continue to lose. But, even so, they'll have a better record 'cause they'll have a healthy Davis, Camby, Kaman, and the #1 overall pick. They'll play better without Iverson.

Memphis: Rudy Gay and O.J. Mayo are the first two options on this team. They're no Rodney Stuckey. Also, coming off of a strong "rookie" year, Gasol will look to score more in the post this season. Where they really need Iverson is to score buckets... with the second unit. I know it's hard to believe that Kyle Lowry couldn't lead Darko, Darrell Arthur, Darius Miles, and Marko Jaric to victory, but it didn't happen. Iverson could at least help them keep up.

But that's hardly a reason to bring him in for more than the mid-level exception...

the_ouskull

[starclassic tama]

As far as Blake is concerned, Iverson has never made his teammates better. Not in Philadelphia, not in Denver, and not in Detroit. So as far as Blake is concerned, bad.


not true. what about his philly team that got to the finals, and handed LA their only loss of the playoffs in the first game? i dare you to name 4 guys off that team not named A.I.

early A.I. was a mess, but his game really matured later on in his career. he would only help the clippers. give them a primary scoring threat to go along with baron davis and blake.

[Eielson]

not true. what about his philly team that got to the finals, and handed LA their only loss of the playoffs in the first game? i dare you to name 4 guys off that team not named A.I.

Which means he didn't make his teammates better, correct?

(sidenote: why am I supposed to be so impressed that he lead his team to a 4-1 loss to the Lakers? Why don't you guys just say he led them to the finals, because getting swept is the only thing he could've done that was worse. Oh, and Tyronn Lue dominated him.)


give them a primary scoring threat to go along with baron davis and blake.

By definition, you can only have one primary scoring threat.

[Collier11]

Oh, and Tyronn Lue dominated him.)

.

He average 35.6ppg in that series, I wouldnt call that domination in any meaning of the word, and Tyronn Lue has never dominated anyone. Lue did harass him quite a bit and play decent D but AI still put up 35.6

[JLEW1818]

not true. what about his philly team that got to the finals, and handed LA their only loss of the playoffs in the first game? i dare you to name 4 guys off that team not named A.I.

early A.I. was a mess, but his game really matured later on in his career. he would only help the clippers. give them a primary scoring threat to go along with baron davis and blake.



okay... off the top of my head..... Snow, Deke (Mutombo), McKie, Ratliff...


AI IS FREAKING CANCER!!!!!!!!! maybe worse.

[starclassic tama]

Which means he didn't make his teammates better, correct?

(sidenote: why am I supposed to be so impressed that he lead his team to a 4-1 loss to the Lakers? Why don't you guys just say he led them to the finals, because getting swept is the only thing he could've done that was worse. Oh, and Tyronn Lue dominated him.)



By definition, you can only have one primary scoring threat.

he led an average team to the finals. so i would say that is making his teammates better. yeah they got wiped out by a far superior L.A. team. what definition is that? get that from dictionary.com? plenty of teams have more than 1 primary scoring option. who would you say orlando's primary scoring threat was, since they can only have one?

exactly my point, jlew.

[JLEW1818]

If your Point guard is your best player... your in trouble...... (Magic and O being the exceptions)

[starclassic tama]

what does that even mean?

[JLEW1818]

Scoring Point guards are usually disasters to teams.. usually

[JLEW1818]

I mean would they win more games with AI? yes... but would it really help them in the long run? probably not, whats the point of having AI for 1 season?

I'd rather suck again, and get a top 5 pick again.. if i was a clippers fan.

[Collier11]

since having top 5 picks has done the Clip so well Jlew, get out of here boy before you crap yourself

[JLEW1818]

I'm just saying. If your not gonna be a playoff team... whats the point? AI would only stay for a year.... what's that going to do?? They have never had a guy like Blake Griffin. Keep building and ride it out.

[Collier11]

Do you know about Sterling at all? All he cares about is his bottom line brother

[JLEW1818]

they have horrible management

AI would bring in more money and more wins.... but i would feel sorry for Blake if AI came... Imagine being teammates with him your rookie season...... Blake would know where every good club in LA is by seasons end.

[tommieharris91]

So Iverson shoots the ball more than anybody else in the league, at a lower percentage than anybody else who shoots the ball as often, and he leads the league in turnovers as well.

I'm just gonna post this nugget of info for ouskull again.

I don't even think AI would bring more wins to the Clips. He might not even be more than a money sink now.

[JLEW1818]

still talking about "Practice"

worth a couple minutes of your time..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exOxUAntx8I

[Eielson]

he led an average team to the finals. so i would say that is making his teammates better. yeah they got wiped out by a far superior L.A. team.

There wasn't even that much competition in the East. You remember who they beat in the Eastern Conference Finals? The Milwaukee Bucks...in 7 games. I bet you can't name 5 players on that team either. In fact, I'd be impressed if you named more than one without cheating.

Regardless, he made the team better, but not his teammates. I looked at game one's boxscore, and I saw that Iverson scored 48 points...on 41 shots. The next leading scorer had 13 points. He didn't make his teammates better.


what definition is that? get that from dictionary.com?

I'm not going to sugar-coat this one too much. If you don't know, and can't figure out what the word primary means, then you're stupid.


plenty of teams have more than 1 primary scoring option. who would you say orlando's primary scoring threat was, since they can only have one?

It's like asking who the best player on a team is. It's an opinion.

[badger]

The Milwaukee Bucks...in 7 games. I bet you can't name 5 players on that team either.

I bet everyone could name at least three - Glenn Robinson, Ray Allen and Sam Cassell.

...no? Ok, well I'm a Bucks fan, so I have an excuse :D

[Collier11]

They beat the Bucks and the Raptors that year, both in good 7 game series. Glenn Robinson and Ray Allen and Vince Carter were all in their prime, the East had some decent teams then, just not great ones like the West

[Sooner04]

Glenn Robinson's prime was at Purdue. That dude was an oaf in the NBA.

Wasn't that the year Vince Carter went to his college graduation the day of Game 7?

[badger]

I dunno, about Vince going back to UNC that year or another, but that was the year the Sixers traded for Dikembe Mutombo, so it's not like Iverson was the only good player on the team.

Initially, it looked like the Bucks made a bad decision in drafting Glenn over the likes of Grant Hill or Juwan Howard.. but then Grant turned injury-prone, Juwan demanded craploads of money, etc., so I'm not too bitter about it.

[Collier11]

The only person that could score Badg, thats all weve been sayin.

[badger]

The only person that could score Badg, thats all weve been sayin.

Colly hearts AI :D

[Collier11]

I do like AI but I also think he gets a lot of unfair criticism...early in his career he was a flat out punk and did alot of selfish things. I just give a lot of props to a guy that is listed at 6'0'' but is probably shorter, who throws his body around and plays his arse off like he does every night, and for a long stretch was still the best scorer in the league despite that.

SO GET OFF MY BACK :D

[badger]

GET OFF MY BACK :D

that's what AI said ;)

[Collier11]

Nah, he said "practice"?

[badger]

Nah, he said "practice"?

:hot:

[NormanPride]

If I could get away with shooting the ball 40+ times a game, I'd work hard too. :D

[badger]

Since this is the most active OU basketball discussion, did y'all hear that we're gonna lead off Espen's Big Monday with the Pokes? (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=92&articleid=20090716_234_0_IRVING25641).

Game's on Jan. 11 in Norman. Man, I wish it weren't offseason in everything :(

[Collier11]

NFL teams and College teams are about to report, atleast we have that tiny little bit of excitement

[JLEW1818]

I bet you can't name 5 players on that team either. In fact, I'd be impressed if you named more than one without cheating.

The only ones off the top of my head i could think of were.

Ray Allen
Rafer Alston (because I'm a Rockets fan)
Sam Cassell ( i follow Rockets when they leave)


but pretty weak.. and they took the 76ers 7 games.

[Eielson]

They beat the Bucks and the Raptors that year, both in good 7 game series. Glenn Robinson and Ray Allen and Vince Carter were all in their prime, the East had some decent teams then, just not great ones like the West

Oh man! 7 games against the Raptors! OOOH! WOOHOO! How many players can you name off that team?

And no, the East sucked. The West had two or three teams that missed the playoffs that would have had a chance to win the East. The 7 and 8 seeds probably wouldn't have even been underdogs to win the East.

[JLEW1818]

damn, i missed Glenn Robinson ... i should have known that

[Collier11]

The only ones off the top of my head i could think of were.

Ray Allen
Rafer Alston (because I'm a Rockets fan)
Sam Cassell ( i follow Rockets when they leave)


but pretty weak.. and they took the 76ers 7 games.

So far off base on this one, that season they won 52 games (58 was the most by any team that year)and the big 3 did the following

Cassell- 18.2ppg
Big Dog- All Star who avg 22ppg
Allen- All NBA 3rd team, All Star, 22ppg

[NormanPride]

Even Baj would tell you they were mediocre.

[Collier11]

She is too busy painting her nails to know whether or not that is true

[badger]

Even Baj would tell you they were mediocre.

I am a fan, but I had very low expectations that year in the playoffs. I knew we would make the playoffs, but expected very little after that, given the teams I knew we would face.

I was happily surprised with a seven-game series in the ECF that year, given that the Bucks haven't had that level of success since a certain Lew Alcindor was on the team... know more commonly by a different name , of course.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Yeah we know...Lew Alcindor=Wilt Chamberlain!

[starclassic tama]

There wasn't even that much competition in the East. You remember who they beat in the Eastern Conference Finals? The Milwaukee Bucks...in 7 games. I bet you can't name 5 players on that team either. In fact, I'd be impressed if you named more than one without cheating.

Regardless, he made the team better, but not his teammates. I looked at game one's boxscore, and I saw that Iverson scored 48 points...on 41 shots. The next leading scorer had 13 points. He didn't make his teammates better.



I'm not going to sugar-coat this one too much. If you don't know, and can't figure out what the word primary means, then you're stupid.



It's like asking who the best player on a team is. It's an opinion.

u so smart! u no what the word primary means! ok mr. webster, lets change the word primary to the word preferred. as in, A.I. would give the clippers a third preferred scoring option. as in, someone the clippers would prefer to have the ball in their hands when looking to make a clutch basket. pretty much everyone in this thread has admitted that A.I. would lead the clippers to more points and at least a few more wins. even if it is only for one season, how is this a bad thing? and don't even give me this about how much of a cancer he was in detroit and denver, those teams had an offensive identity before A.I., and A.I. no doubt disrupted that. but the clippers are different. they have no identity at all, and are just looking for someone to put the ball in the basket.

to show how absurd the notion of a team only being able to have one primary scoring threat, just look at orlando. both lewis and howard averaged more per game than turkoglu, but when they needed a huge basket they went to turkoglu. so to say that by dictionary definition a team can only have one primary scoring threat, that's pretty silly.

[badger]

Yeah we know...Lew Alcindor=Wilt Chamberlain!

click this... if you're safely not at work (http://audioseek.net/~hiryu/4chan/picard-expression.jpeg)

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Everyone knows that Lew Alcindor became a British person so he had to change his name to Wilt Chamberlain.

[NormanPride]

u so smart! u no what the word primary means! ok mr. webster, lets change the word primary to the word preferred. as in, A.I. would give the clippers a third preferred scoring option. as in, someone the clippers would prefer to have the ball in their hands when looking to make a clutch basket. pretty much everyone in this thread has admitted that A.I. would lead the clippers to more points and at least a few more wins. even if it is only for one season, how is this a bad thing? and don't even give me this about how much of a cancer he was in detroit and denver, those teams had an offensive identity before A.I., and A.I. no doubt disrupted that. but the clippers are different. they have no identity at all, and are just looking for someone to put the ball in the basket.

to show how absurd the notion of a team only being able to have one primary scoring threat, just look at orlando. both lewis and howard averaged more per game than turkoglu, but when they needed a huge basket they went to turkoglu. so to say that by dictionary definition a team can only have one primary scoring threat, that's pretty silly.

No, I think people were saying that about Memphis and Miami, where he'd go if he was willing to be a role player.

And there's a huge difference between the primary scorer and a star. Just take my Spurs: Tim Duncan is the primary scorer. Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili may score more points in games and may drive more of the offense, but everyone knows it's Tim's team, and he's the Man. AI wants to be the Man, not the Tony Parker.

[JLEW1818]

but how far would the 76ers and bucks have gone in the west....

[Eielson]

u so smart! u no what the word primary means!

Was your first language something other than English?


ok mr. webster, lets change the word primary to the word preferred. as in, A.I. would give the clippers a third preferred scoring option.

I'd prefer he not be on the team.


pretty much everyone in this thread has admitted that A.I. would lead the clippers to more points and at least a few more wins.

No, actually we haven't.


and don't even give me this about how much of a cancer he was in detroit and denver, those teams had an offensive identity before A.I., and A.I. no doubt disrupted that. but the clippers are different. they have no identity at all, and are just looking for someone to put the ball in the basket.

I think we've made it clear that the Clippers already have enough guys who can "put the ball in the basket."


so to say that by dictionary definition a team can only have one primary scoring threat, that's pretty silly.

You can argue with the dictionary all you want, but that's kinda the authority on definitions.

[Collier11]

how the hell could anyone know, as I said...the most wins in the league that year was 58 and 56, the 6ers had 56, the bucks had 52

[JLEW1818]

The Lakers were insanely good that year. Only 1 playoff loss. which was to AI's 76ers... So i will give them somewhat credit for that. However, that 76ers team ended up dropping the next game in LA, and 3 straight games at home to the Lakers.... any team that loses 3 home games in the playoffs in a row... ?

Shoot, a better question is... "If Kobe and Shaq didn't cry, would they have more than MJ and Pippen?"



Put the 2008-09 Lakers in the east last year, and the break the Bulls 70 game win record.

[Curly Bill]

I don't want to interrupt you guys pissing match, but picking up AI would be a bad move for the Clippers.

Carry on...

[JLEW1818]

I don't want to interrupt you guys pissing match, but picking up AI would be a bad move for the Clippers.

Carry on...

I agree... but why?

[Curly Bill]

If you already have Baron Davis why would you want AI?

He's nearing the end of his NBA career -- he might be a good pickup for an NBA team looking to get over the hump, but that ain't the Clippers.

As has been pointed out already - he is a volume shooter, why give an aging NBA player a large portion of your shots?

The Clippers are gonna suck regardless, why bring in AI who very well could be a problem?

Ultimately, there's just no sensible reason to bring him in.

[starclassic tama]

A.I. would instantly be the best player on the clippers team. can anyone really argue that? this wasn't the case in denver and detroit. so if you have a chance to add a hall of famer to your team that isn't very good, you do it, end of story.

[JLEW1818]

funny how no other teams want him.....................

[Collier11]

Clippers, Grizzlies, Heat, etc...plenty of teams want him

[tommieharris91]

A.I. would instantly be the best player on the clippers team. can anyone really argue that?

This guy can.
http://terrydehereftw.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/blake_griffin.jpg

[starclassic tama]

dude get real here for a second. griffin will end up being better in the long run, but he will have his rookie struggles like everyone else. he's a lock for ROY, but A.I. is still a great player.

[JLEW1818]

I hope he signs soon... so i can be absolutely 100% sure that he's not going to be a rocket.

cancer

[the_ouskull]

Glenn Robinson's prime was at Purdue. That dude was an oaf in the NBA.

GOD, yes!

the_ouskull

[the_ouskull]

u so smart! pretty much everyone in this thread has admitted that A.I. would lead the clippers to more points and at least a few more wins.

I haven't "admitted" that. Don't lump me in with your English-As-A-Second-Language, half-t*ard ramblings... "He's so smart, Jenny."

to show how absurd the notion of a team only being able to have one primary scoring threat, just look at orlando. both lewis and howard averaged more per game than turkoglu, but when they needed a huge basket they went to turkoglu. so to say that by dictionary definition a team can only have one primary scoring threat, that's pretty silly.

You really just look at the pictures in the Book of Life, don't you? By saying that, "when they needed a huge basket, they went to Turkoglu," you're saying that he was their primary scoring option. He was also their only scorer who had a decent enough handle to get his own shot off, so that helped a little...

Do you even LIKE basketball? Do you watch it?

the_ouskull

[the_ouskull]

I agree... but why?

Read every post I've typed in this thread before today. Then re-read them. THAT'S why!

the_ouskull

[the_ouskull]

Clippers, Grizzlies, Heat, etc...plenty of teams want him

No "good" teams want him. You don't see the Celts, who need a backup for Rondo, trying to pick him up, and they brought in another head case from that draft class, Marbury, last season. So, it's not like his age is scaring them away.

Iverson's biggest problem is this: He still thinks he's a max-money player, and, with his baggage and his mileage, he'll be lucky to sign somewhere for the mid-level. He'll certainly get his shots, though...

the_ouskull

[the_ouskull]

dude get real here for a second. griffin will end up being better in the long run, but he will have his rookie struggles like everyone else. he's a lock for ROY, but A.I. is still a great player.

Opinion. Pure opinion. At least I'm backing my opinions up statistically. Can you? I'll skeet them as soon as you shout "Pull," sir. If you had the stats to back up your pro-A.I. argument, we'd have seen them already. Collie tried, and I admire him for it, regardless of its ineffectiveness. :D

(And I'll still have that beer with you, man... but I'm not making a bet on a misguided line like that one...)

the_ouskull

[Collier11]

Stats are like science, they can be used to prove anything you want proven but it doesnt mean they are always accurately used

[badger]

The fact of the matter is that the Clips have a miser in charge of their organization.. how much did AI make last year? $21 million? Even if AI just commands half of that, I have to think that the money side of the argument will win out. The miser wants to win, but not if it costs him money. The miser will likely not spend close to $21 mil on a one-year AI contract... or even half that.

[Collier11]

You were under the impression that the Clips have ever been serious about winning? LOL, we all know that isnt true.

We have had fun in this thread but just to state it clearly, my only true point has been this...

AI is a great player, one of the greatest and hardest working(on the court, not in practice) players of this generation and one of the greatest scorers of all time. Is he past his prime, yes he is 34, can he help the Clips or grizz or heat, etc... Yes, if he buys in, will he buy in? Who knows, I think he will but who really knows.

I think any 3 of those teams would benefit in fan attendance and in the win column, obviously not long term but for a year or two I think he could really help. JMHO

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Look at the bright side, Blake will be able to chase that title in 5 years when he is a free agent ;)

[Collier11]

unless he is smart and signs a 3 year deal

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

SWEET!! Did not know that was an option

[Collier11]

I am pretty sure, dont quote me on it though ;)

[JLEW1818]

Read every post I've typed in this thread before today. Then re-read them. THAT'S why!

the_ouskull

I was asking CB

[JLEW1818]

Stats are like science, they can be used to prove anything you want proven but it doesnt mean they are always accurately used

I like that quote

[Eielson]

A.I. would instantly be the best player on the clippers team. can anyone really argue that?

http://www.redwoodwd.net/two/brian/images/bd.jpg

[Eielson]

The fact of the matter is that the Clips have a miser in charge of their organization.. how much did AI make last year? $21 million? Even if AI just commands half of that, I have to think that the money side of the argument will win out. The miser wants to win, but not if it costs him money. The miser will likely not spend close to $21 mil on a one-year AI contract... or even half that.

I believe the contract was one year, 5.8 million, and he also needed to be comfortable possibly coming off the bench. I don't have a problem with the money, just the player.

Anyway, I think I've found a good way to decide if this would be a good move or a bad move. If the Clippers sign him, he will be bad for the team. If the Clippers don't sign him, he would've been good. This idea works about 80-90% of the time.

[starclassic tama]

i should have known better than to try and talk basketball on an OU football forum. you guys are right, BARON DAVIS and a rookie are both better players than the hall of famer allen iverson, and the 19 win clippers would be foolish to try and bring him in.

[tommieharris91]

i should have known better than to try and talk basketball on an OU football forum. you guys are right, BARON DAVIS and a rookie are both better players than the hall of famer allen iverson, and the 19 win clippers would be foolish to try and bring him in.

Most HOF guards shoot better than 43% in their career.

[the_ouskull]

i should have known better than to try and talk basketball on an OU football forum. you guys are right, BARON DAVIS and a rookie are both better players than the hall of famer allen iverson, and the 19 win clippers would be foolish to try and bring him in.

First of all, since when are HoF-caliber players measured by how they're playing at the end of their career? Iverson is a HoF-caliber player based on his entire body of work, much of which has been more productive in the past as opposed to now. If you doubt that nugget of statistical truth, then you are even more beyond hope than I thought. Now, given that, throughout his career, he has also been somewhat of a problem with coaches, and has been in a bit of trouble with the law as well; all of which are true - can be proven. He even went so far last season as to refuse to do what his coach thought was best for the team, and then, after that "issue" decided that he was hurt somehow, and he was going to sit out the rest of the season.

If you truly believe, as I believe that Sterling and the Clips do, that Blake has an opportunity to be a very special NBA player, then is adding someone with A.I.'s (proven) "issues" really "What's best for the team?" Even if (on paper) it adds a couple more wins, it's not like you've got the squad to compete for the hardware THIS season anyway... so why not allow Gordon (a young stud) to continue to develop, Baron Davis to work himself back into NBA shape, and the new players time to learn the system. (Heh. I referred to any coaching Dunleavy does as a "system." Then I referred to it as coaching.) Bringing in A.I. would solely be a financial move, as it certainly would not help the team develop its young talent, long-term, and it MAY not (would not) help them short-term either...

I don't know how you cannot see that. I guess that's why you shouldn't have tried to talk basketball on this forum. You don't seem to know much about the sport... or which board it's on, either. (This is the basketball board... not the football board.)

the_ouskull

[Eielson]

i should have known better than to try and talk basketball

Learning quick!

[JLEW1818]

yup. we need to keep the basketball talk going ....

[Curly Bill]

i should have known better than to try and talk basketball on an OU football forum. you guys are right, BARON DAVIS and a rookie are both better players than the hall of famer allen iverson, and the 19 win clippers would be foolish to try and bring him in.

Quit being a tool, oh wait...that's what you've always been on here. :O

HOFer or not, Iverson is not a good fit on that team, and even if he was, the Clips suck so bad why bring him in when he's as likely to be a cancer as not.

Quit thinking about real basketball like it's your fantasy team where the idea might be to just collect what you might think are the best players. In real basketball there's such a thing as chemistry. That's never been Iverson's strong suit, and now here he is on the downward spiral of his career at that. Yep, real benefit from bringing him in if you're the Clips.

Next time before you decide to call people out you might want to invest in a clue yourself.

[starclassic tama]

Opinion. Pure opinion. At least I'm backing my opinions up statistically. Can you? I'll skeet them as soon as you shout "Pull," sir. If you had the stats to back up your pro-A.I. argument, we'd have seen them already. Collie tried, and I admire him for it, regardless of its ineffectiveness. :D

(And I'll still have that beer with you, man... but I'm not making a bet on a misguided line like that one...)

the_ouskull

last time we tried to bet about stats, i said you were vastly underrating kevin durant's skills and he would average over 25 a game this season. you said no way. i said OKC would win 31 games this past season, you said no way. so i will take 1-1, and welcome any future bets dealing with stats.

here are some stats for you, from A.I. the team killer's final season in philly, 2005-2006.

17 games with double digit assists. including these cancerous performances: 46 points 9 assists, 38 and 15, 47 and 12 (ridiculous), 40 and 10, 42 and 12, another 40 and 10, 37 and 12.

now obviously this was 3 seasons ago, and A.I. has no doubt aged. but this whole notion that he is a mindless chucker and team killer is just silly. early in his career, he was a mindless chucker. but the point i'm making is A.I.'s game evolved big time and if he has the right attitude he will no doubt benefit the clippers and help the younger players develop. the only valid reason to doubt that A.I. would be succesful in L.A. is that he is washed up. he may certainly be. but someone with his scoring ability that still averaged nearly 7 assists per game is an asset to nearly any team.

[the_ouskull]

last time we tried to bet about stats, i said you were vastly underrating kevin durant's skills and he would average over 25 a game this season. you said no way. i said OKC would win 31 games this past season, you said no way. so i will take 1-1, and welcome any future bets dealing with stats.

What I ACTUALLY said, verbatim, was:

Many of you are underestimating the value of strength, especially at the NBA level. If he's benching 0 reps, then 1) it's an indicator of how hard he's willing to work in the weight room, and 2) he's going to literally be a boy going up against grown-*ssed men.

I'm going out now and saying that Kevin Durant will win the ROY award. I'm not saying that he doesn't have the tools to be a great player, even at the NBA level, but right now, he does not have the strength to handle the players that are going to be guarding him, and ESPECIALLY the players that he is going to be guarding... I think that, once the grind of the season starts wearing him down, he's going to start settling for jump shots, and become outright mediocre. Call me crazy if you'd like, but he's going to be pretty ineffective on the boards until he learns how to gets him some muskles, and, without dominating the boards, he's just a scorer. Without playing in the post and on the wing, he's just a shooter. If an NBA-level defender can take away two of your three options, you are simply not going to dominate games consistantly...

I then continued:

Durant's game is going to be about coming off of picks, and flashing to the rim. Situations in which he's going to be forced to flash on the pick, usually by someone stronger, or he's going to be cutting into the lane, heading towards someone that's going to put him on his back almost every time. And all of that discounts the fact that he's going to get killed 1) if he ever posts up, which, as a forward, he's going to have to expect to do. (He can't guard NBA 2's...) 2) when he's on defense, they're going to literally kill him. They're going to take him into the post or run him into some hard picks, a lot. I think he's going to have to play limited minutes or he's going to get hurt... or both.

The kid has an "it" factor to him, no doubt about it. But, right now, he's going to be a boy; albeit a talented and athletic boy, playing against men. After a year or two, we'll see what he can become, if it's going to be positive. If it's going to be negative, we'll know really soon. It's all about how much he adapts to the NBA game, and how well he holds up. Nobody doubts what the kid can do with the ball in his hands. It's what he does when it's not in his hands, on both ends of the court, that determines the kind of player he's going to become.

As for OKC's record, do you think that we finish with as many wins as we did without trading for Special-K and Sefalosha? Also, Durant averaged 25.3, so it's not like he raced past the 25ppg mark or anything. Lol...

Also, I was right on a number of other predictions... His defensive struggles (especially when they were trying to play him at the 2) most notably. He also does have a very low rebound rate for a small forward of his ability. (He ranked 20th out of all small forwards.) But I will say this: I think that I underestimated his overall ability to help a team win basketball games. I think that, as the NBA-level game starts to come to him more and more, that he'll be able to morph himself into a Bird-esque player. He won't be the rebounder or passer that Bird was, but he'll be a combination of all of those things, like Bird was, with a much better handle. If he can become a more capable passer, it will open up his game that much more. But, if we're going to run our offense through him, he's got to find a way to average more than 2.8 assists per game.

the_ouskull

[Collier11]

scoring more than 25 is scoring more than 25, plain and simple...dont undervalue it just cus you were incorrect skull

[the_ouskull]

(mumble, grumble) 'cause we traded for a stupid 2-guard who couldn't score, just defend and our starting five isn't much of a scorer either; he won't do it again this year... (grumble, rumble)

:D

the_ouskull

[Collier11]

He will avg 27 this year...mark it down :D

[the_ouskull]

I'm not marking anything down. I'm too busy re-watching the Erin Andrews video for like, the 10th time...

the_ouskull

[Collier11]

she is smokin hot nude...that is if I had watched that extremely perverted video :eek:

[the_ouskull]

She is smoking hot, period. Nude takes it to the next level.

Allegedly...

the_ouskull

[badger]

Watched BG in summer league this afternoon. He sank a 3... yes, a real, NBA-distance three-point basket, swish. NP and I witnessed it - BG is not only working on his jump shot, he is apparently working on his long-range jump shot too :D

Free throws, on the other hand, are still woefully abysmal, but at least he didn't airball his unlike some punk we saw that we predict will get the immediate choppy choppy cutting treatment.

[starclassic tama]

i know it's just summer league, but griffin might even be better than what people (including myself) thought. the only reason i say that is because i felt like his offensive game was still pretty raw at oklahoma, even though he averaged almost 23 a game. but with the work ethic he has, watch out NBA. i think he has a chance to be better than amare stoudamire, more consistent and for a lot longer.

let's throw out some stats: i'm guessing griffin averages 16.5 points and 9.5 rebounds per game, easily winning ROY.

[Eielson]

i know it's just summer league, but griffin might even be better than what people (including myself) thought. the only reason i say that is because i felt like his offensive game was still pretty raw at oklahoma, even though he averaged almost 23 a game. but with the work ethic he has, watch out NBA. i think he has a chance to be better than amare stoudamire, more consistent and for a lot longer.

let's throw out some stats: i'm guessing griffin averages 16.5 points and 9.5 rebounds per game, easily winning ROY.

Blake is good, but he's no Allen Iverson.

[starclassic tama]

some groundbreaking insight by "eielson" right there

[the_ouskull]

It's as insightful as your choosing to ignore obvious character flaws that would make Iverson a detriment to the Clippers, and, therefore, Blake's development. Jus' sayin'.

Maybe he makes them better on the court, maybe he doesn't. He certainly didn't make Detroit any better. Denver got a LOT better when he left. Sure there are other factors surrounding those circumstances, but they are factual circumstances.

But he, and the drama that hovers over him like Pig Pen's dust cloud, would certainly not help Blake in any way, other than to maybe take some media pressure off of him.. but when he's being asked by reporters, "So, Blake, how do you feel about Allen Iverson's recent request to Clippers management to "start me or trade me?" and what is the team's reaction?" Instead of, "So, Blake, Rookie of the Year... When did you know you were going to win it?" Then yeah, there's problems...

the_ouskull

[JLEW1818]

exactly

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Does anyone here actually think that Iverson's attitude would somehow change Blake's work ethic, skills, or growth. Honestly as good a person as Blake is, I don't see anything holding him back. To me Iverson is just a one year thing that will take a lot of offensive pressure off of Blake. Blake would be able to focus on rebounding and defense without the frustration of being a scorer.

[badger]

Some other notes from the summer league game - the commentating sucks. The game never stops, yet they have instant replays immediately (meaning you might miss something on the other end) and the commentators really didn't talk about the game, as much as they talked about the top draft picks... in that respect, the commentating was awesome, because they spoke highly of BG and lowly of Thabeet, heh. Did I mention how happy I am OKC doesn't have him?

I didn't catch the game, but apparently it was Suns vs. Clips last night:
http://i32.tinypic.com/hv3uj6.jpg
Here's a link to the AP wire story. (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hWUKThkDF4RJ33jDAJ_ONC4_lfMQD99HVGC80)

In addition to practicing his 3, BG appears to have seen a lot of sun in LA, it looks like :D

[the_ouskull]

Does anyone here actually think that Iverson's attitude would somehow change Blake's work ethic, skills, or growth. Honestly as good a person as Blake is, I don't see anything holding him back. To me Iverson is just a one year thing that will take a lot of offensive pressure off of Blake. Blake would be able to focus on rebounding and defense without the frustration of being a scorer.

The Clippers Curse. Who knows what effect Iverson may have... THAT is the problem. Maybe being around someone like Iverson makes Blake work even harder and makes him an even better player. Maybe seeing the attention that a player with Iverson's "work ethic" gets frustrates Blake, and he feeds the Clipper Curse with his anger. (Was that a movie, too?)

Iverson is Count Dooku, Blake is Anakin, and this works.

- Anakin: Started off as a good guy, even as a small boy. (Blake grew up a Sooner fan, in the Sooner state.) Found his way into a small, but talented outfit, who have never been expected to win. (Blake followed his older brother, Taylor, to OU, just as Anakin followed Obi Wan to the Jedi rebel alliance...) Just as he started coming into his own, an older, more-experienced person threatened to get in his way.

http://www.buzzflash.com/analysis/04/09/images/02emperor350.jpg
Mike Dunleavy, Coach/GM of the Los Angeles Clippers

"Mister Iverson, welcome to the Clippers. We're, honestly, all very surprised to see you here. None of us wanted you to be here if you were going to be the way you were in Detroit, late in Denver, and late in Philly."

"Say what? Oh, no he didn't. I'm gonna run and tell the media everything!"

http://www.edandmari.com/starwars/images/Dooku.jpg
l to r: Iverson, Dunleavy's vehicle

"Mister Iverson, please stop. I wanted to talk to you about your playing time."

"Okay, so you're going to start me this year, right? Eric Gordon, or Al Thornton can sit. In fact, move Thornton to the 4, Gordon to the 3, B.D. to the 2, and that new kid to the 5, and we can just run up and down and score lots of points, just like A.I. likes it. Nobody has to mess with no defense, and we don't even have to keep score. I just want to show off. That's good, right?"

"Blake, NOW!"

http://www.skrymir.com/ep3/dookuvsanakin4.jpg
l to r: Blake Griffin, Iverson if he joins the Clippers

http://www.genericgeek.com/ep3/ep3/dookudeath.jpg

THAT's what needs to happen with the Iverson deal.. Blake needs to be alone in order to become the baddest man in the galaxy. He was separated from his sibling, and now he's ready to... wait, that's Luke. Never mind.

the_ouskull

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Well at least Blake's son will return the balance to the force ;)

[badger]

Well at least Blake's son will return the balance to the force ;)

better be at ou, dag nabbit ;)

edit: and his twin sister, too!

[the_ouskull]

better be at ou, dag nabbit ;)

edit: and his twin sister, too!

Well, she's got to parade around half-naked with a chain attached to Mark Mangino around her neck first...

the_ouskull

[Eielson]

I'm guessing this doesn't happen seeing as they just traded for Telfair. Just a gues, though.

[the_ouskull]

It's the Clippers. In the immortal words of Kevin Garnett, who in no way butchered the Adidas slogan of "Impossible is nothing," I say, "Anything is possible."

the_ouskull

[Collier11]

and I say, "MOMMA, I DID IT MOMMA"

[JLEW1818]

I'm so hammered.

[cheezyq]

AI turned me off in his one opportunity to shut up the critics and win a championship. People chose to call him tough because he drove into the lane and got fouled a lot. BS. He failed to inspire his teammates because he was so busy flashing his x-over and missing shots, followed up with a jump into a defender, arms flailing and a whiny look on his face as he bawls at a ref begging for a foul call. I never liked the guy before, but I hated him after that performance.

Bird, Johnson, Jordan...those guys would complain to the refs, but most of the time were at least dignified when they did. They'd make friends with the refs and get on their good side, not stomp up and down like a 5-year old screaming for candy in the grocery store.

Not only that, but when it came down to it, guys like Bird, Johnson, Jordan understood the game and knew WHEN to take the shots, and they also MADE the shots. I saw Jordan win his 1st championship (or 2nd, I can't remember, ou_skull could probably help me on that) on a pass to an open John Paxson.

Whatever the case, while Jordan/Bird/Johnson were all huge ego guys, and all took more than their fair share of shots, they also knew what it took to WIN, and were willing to sacrifice occasional stats to get the win. AI is all about AI. There is no one else on the court when he gets the ball, and he's proven it time and again. He hasn't won, and he won't win, ever...because he refuses to focus on the game rather than himself.

[starclassic tama]

if A.I. was so selfish why did he average more assists per game over his career than jordan? and the exact same amount as bird?

[cheezyq]

And his nicknames are hilarious...and quite fitting. AI = artificial intelligence. Doesn't get any better than that. And the Answer? Only if you ask the right question:

Q. Who took the most shots in that game?
A. Iverson

Q. Who missed the most shots in that game?
A. Iverson

Q. Who had the fewest passes in that game, even fewer than the guy who played 3 minutes?
A. Iverson

Q. Who was that whining to the ref about a foul as he flailed toward the basket?
A. Iverson

Q. Who was that dude who doesn't practice with his teammates to build chemistry for a chance at more wins?
A. Iverson

Q. Why'd we lose that game again?
A. Iverson

Q. Who'd we get rid of that made us a better team?
A. Iverson

[JLEW1818]

if A.I. was so selfish why did he average more assists per game over his career than jordan? and the exact same amount as bird?

Because Iverson played point guard

[Eielson]

if A.I. was so selfish why did he average more assists per game over his career than jordan? and the exact same amount as bird?

*Ignored*

[starclassic tama]

Iverson played shooting guard

.

[badger]

I am still not convinced that whether Iverson is a point guard or a shooting guard if he will be an affordable guard for the miserly Clippers organization.

Stay tuned, I guess :pop:

[NormanPride]

Wasn't Jordan a 3 like BronBron? I didn't watch much basketball back then, and I knew even less about it.

[JLEW1818]

Iverson played both point guard and shooting guard.

[JLEW1818]

Lebron is different, he's more of a point forward, just like Magic was.

Tama your an idiot by the way.

[Curly Bill]

Wasn't Jordan a 3 like BronBron? I didn't watch much basketball back then, and I knew even less about it.

Jordan was mostly a 2 guard.

[the_ouskull]

Jordan played the 3 during his Wizards comeback. He wasn't nimbly-bimbly enough to cover young 2's any more; not on a night-in/night-out basis.

The whole "listing Iverson as a 2" thing came about because of his well-documented propensity for shooting in bunches like grapes. He was paired with All-Star Jerry Stackhouse (those words look so funny together) in the backcourt, but between the two of them, there weren't enough dribbles to go around. This resulted in Eric Snow as the 1, and Iverson as a 2, 'cause Snow couldn't do anything but pass, and Iverson wouldn't do anything but shoot.

If I can find a place that tracks the stat, I will guarantee you that, since the stat began being tracked, Iverson leads the NBA - career, not season - in time of possession. Not his team. Him, personally. He's all dribble, dribble, dribble, and no pass. You know those bad*ss offences you see when the ball whips all the way around the top of the key twice before getting an open weakside layup, or a wide-open 3 in the corner? Iverson KILLS offences like those. He dominates the ball, and therefore, the bulk of his team's shooting, YES, his team's assists, and his team's turnovers.

Do you seriously not realize this about him?

the_ouskull

[Collier11]

do you not realize that with the 6ers thats what he was drafted to do?

[JLEW1818]

9,000 coming up Collier,, don't blow it on Iverson talk!!!

[starclassic tama]

Tama your an idiot by the way.

says the one with 8,300 posts consisting of hehe and lol

[JLEW1818]

says the one who is orange like a horn!!!

[Curly Bill]

I don't care about spek in 3...2...1....

[JLEW1818]

"lol"

[starclassic tama]

my spek looks pretty crimson to me which is how i like it. better than oregon duck green!

[JLEW1818]

so are you still 100% saying that Allen Iverson was not a point guard?

[Collier11]

you can define AI only two ways, either will work. He was either a scoring point guard or a small shooting guard

[the_ouskull]

You can define A.I. in WAY more than just two ways. I prefer "ballhog," or "polarizing figurehead of the NBA's hip-hop generation."

the_ouskull

[Collier11]

coming from the education field, that doesnt surprise me that you would say that

[the_ouskull]

This comes from it's true. Does it surprise you as well...?

-----

Memphis had offered Iverson a one-year, $5M contract with the stipulation that he would likely need to come off the bench. Yahoo! Sports reports any negotiations between the Memphis Grizzles and Allen Iverson are "dead."

-----

So much for being a "team player," etc... Why do you think he'd make a good Clipper; that his signing would help Blake again? He's an egotistical head case who can't or won't admit that his skills are in decline and he no longer commands the value that he thinks that he does. One sympathizes.

the_ouskull

[Curly Bill]

:les: He's a Hall of Famer!




:rolleyes:

[the_ouskull]

The thing that ticks me off the most is that Memphis would be the PERFECT team for what he brings. They're young, with an even more troubled player in Zach Randolph, and they've got a lot of guys who like to put the ball in the basket (O.J. Mayo, Rudy Gay, Randolph, and add A.I. to that...) combined with a bunch of guys who like to primarily play D and rebound (Marc Gasol, Thabeet) and it could work out for them.

But no. Primadonna.

the_ouskull

[badger]

He's gonna end up on that Greek team making the money he wants to be making and this big long discussion will be moot :D

Well, I still had fun with it while it lasted.

[Collier11]

Just to play devils advocate because I thought Memphis would be a good fit also, maybe he has a couple of better offers on the table

[OUmillenium]

OU Skull is correct. If you disagree, then you don't know basketball. Really, you don't.

[Collier11]

OU Skull is correct. If you disagree, then you don't know basketball. Really, you don't.

Oh, well in that case :rolleyes:

[the_ouskull]

Well, if you don't care to take his word for it, check out some of the threads I've started recently. They'll help frame the truth for you, assuming you're open-minded/intelligent enough to get it...

the_ouskull

[Collier11]

What I am saying is that for him to say I dont know basketball because I back the AI signing for the Clippers is dead wrong, I know plenty of basketball and have been involved in it from the age of 12 thru this day of my life

[the_ouskull]

So what about everything that I've both written myself, and posted from professional sources, that contradicts everything that you're saying about the guy...? The stuff that's USING HIS OWN STATISTICS AND PLAY TO BACK US UP!?

What about that stuff? I noticed you haven't posted anything on those threads.

the_ouskull

[Collier11]

Cus im done with the discussion, im obviously an AI fan, I obviously give him more credit for leading the 6ers the way he did back in that 4 or 5 year span of success, and I obviously think he could help a young team be better.

I dont feel like arguing about it anymore because I am also obviously the only AI fan around these parts ;)

[the_ouskull]

I was, until HE started being one, if you know what I mean... well, I mean, YOU won't know what I mean, but I do, and that's important too, I guess. I'm not sure.

the_ouskull