SI lists the top ten most thrilling players in NCAA history

[footballfanatic]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/austin_murphy/06/26/thrill.list/index.html

10. Lawrence Taylor, North Carolina
Before he lit it up on Broadway, LT was the scourge of the ACC. Arguably the most ferocious pass rusher in college football history, he led North Carolina to an 11-1 record in 1980, amassing 16 sacks despite almost never being single-blocked.

9. Doc Blanchard and Glenn Davis, Army
While leading Army to three straight undefeated seasons and two national titles (1945 and '46), Mssrs. Inside and Outside formed the most storied backfield pairing in the history of the college game. They combined for 97 touchdowns and took turns winning the Heisman: Blanchard in 1945, Davis in 1946.

8. Reggie Bush, USC
DON'T swarm to the ball, one Pac-10 defensive coordinator told his players. Stay in your lanes, the better to neutralize Bush's radical cutbacks. The quicksilver escape artist started just 14 of his 39 games at 'SC, but amassed, in three seasons, 6,541 total yards -- 10th best in NCAA history. He also threw the most infamous illegal block in college football history. Remember the Bush Push? Notre Dame does.

7. Red Grange, Illinois
After watching the Galloping Ghost single-handedly take apart Michigan in 1924 -- Grange took the opening kickoff back 95 yards, then scored on runs of 67, 56 and 44 yards, all in the first 12 minutes -- Grantland Rice was inspired to verse. A sampler:

"A rubber bounding, blasting soul/
Whose destination is the goal."

Grange's play? Immortal. Rice's poem? Not so much.

6. Doug Flutie, Boston College
The day after Thanksgiving in 1984, Flutie seared himself into the national consciousness by outdueling Miami's Bernie Kosar, snatching victory from the 'Canes in the last-minute with a game-winning 48-yard touchdown pass to Gerard Phelan -- a play which did not, contrary to popular belief -- clinch the Heisman for him. Yes, the Little General won that year's Heisman. But the votes were in before that day's game.

5. Tim Tebow, Florida
Whether he's uncorking a beautiful deep ball or lowering his shoulder in short yardage or sealing a national championship with a fourth-quarter jump pass, The Chosen One has been a veritable thrill merchant. And he's still got one more season in Gainesville.

4. Herschel Walker, Georgia
Combining Earl Campbell's brute strength with O.J.'s top-end speed, No. 34 electrified the SEC from the first game of his freshman season. Playing with a dislocated left shoulder in the 1981 Sugar Bowl against Notre Dame, he rushed for 150 yards and both of the Bulldogs' TDs in a 17-10 win that clinched Georgia's sole national title since 1946.

3. Dick Butkus, Illinois
More than the numbers (he once recorded 23 tackles in a game against Ohio State); more than the honors (consensus All-America in 1963 and '64, after which he placed third in the Heisman balloting), it was Butkus' passion and cruel intensity -- the pleasure he took from the mayhem he meted out -- that set the standard for every middle linebacker to come after him.

2. Earl Campbell, Texas
The Tyler Rose rushed for 4,443 yards -- the bulk of them at the expense of defenders he head-butted or stiff-armed or trampled underfoot. The two-time All America and 1977 Heisman winner was, according to Oklahoma coach Barry Switzer, "the greatest player who ever suited up."

1. Vince Young, Texas
Even before his near-miraculous, national-title-clinching performance in the '06 Rose Bowl (VY passed for 267 yards and rushed for an even 200, including a game-winning, nine-yard scramble with 19 seconds remaining), the rangy dual-threat QB specialized in leading outrageous, you-cannot-be-serious comebacks: from 28 points down against Oklahoma State in 2004; from 10 down against Michigan in the 2005 Rose Bowl, after which he had the prescience to promise, "We'll be back!"

[soonerinabilene]

The omission of AD makes this list look like it belongs on the short bus.

[footballfanatic]

The omission of AD makes this list look like it belongs on the short bus.

Peterson was/is a great back, but he didn't make the same game changing imprint that these other players did. Injuries sure didn't help him.

[sooner59]

No Barry Sanders in the top 10? pshhhhhhh.....

[OUAlumni1990]

Yeah, well...too bad Vince Young doesn't even crack "The top 100 most thrilling players in NFL history." LOL.

And you whorn fans accuse OU fans of living in the past....:rolleyes:

[footballfanatic]

Yeah, well...too bad Vince Young doesn't even crack "The top 100 most thrilling players in NFL history." LOL.

And you whorn fans accuse OU fans of living in the past....:rolleyes:

I think this is a great list. Very even-handed. And I'm really a Big 12 South fan--I support all of the teams...

[TheHumanAlphabet]

One name is missing...

Joe Washington.

I can think of others, but if this is missing, then as someone said - this is a short bus list.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Yeah...That's a glaring error

[OUAlumni1990]

One name is missing...

Joe Washington.

I can think of others, but if this is missing, then as someone said - this is a short bus list.

You mean this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lbuUTz2IUY

;)

[soonerinabilene]

Peterson was/is a great back, but he didn't make the same game changing imprint that these other players did. Injuries sure didn't help him.

If this were a list of the top performers, or most durable, or whatever, then yeah, that holds water. But it says most thrilling. Even a whorn fan has to admit that everytime he was handed the ball, the chance of seeing something thrilling was very high. If Vince is number one based on his last year and half in college, then ad should be top 10 based on his freshman season alone.

[Sooner04]

Barry Sanders > Reggie Bush

[picasso]

SI is a bigger joke than ESPN.

[Curly Bill]

I've seen some lame *** lists before, but this is probably the topper.

[Hella Sideburns]

leaving barry ****ing sanders off this list is a crime

[Widescreen]

It's times like this that I'm glad footballfanatic is the one person in my ignore list.

[Sooner04]

SI is a bigger joke than ESPN.
SI does a lot of really good reporting in a lot of areas (golf, NFL, etc), but their college football writing has always rubbed me as amateur hour.

Lawrence Taylor wasn't even the best defensive player in college football while he was at UNC. It was Hugh Green of Pittsburgh.

[SoonerLB]

1, 2, 5, and 10 are all jokes on this list. Where are Billy Sims, Joe Washington, Gale Sayers, Barry Sanders, etc.? And explain to me how Vince Young even merits consideration? Of all the QB's that have played NCAA football, VY? Someone needs to pull their head out! And Tebow? He's little more than a love doll for ESPN types, far from one of the most exciting players, and even farther from one of the best!
Give me a break SI, quit looking to ESPN for your stories!

[Crucifax Autumn]

Seems to me they were trying to sell copies to the big markets.

[PLaw]

No Archie Griffin?? No OJ?? Wow, have those love affairs ended?

How about Woodson? If Earl is on the list, then certainly Billy deserves the same cred.

Is texass the new media lover?

BOOMER

[badger]

Reggie Bush wasn't that exciting to watch... unless all you watched was the endzone line.

"Hey look! That player just flipped into the endzone!"

and... again, and again, and again, until you get bored of it and realize you're not thrilled at all.

[Collier11]

Strongly disagree, Reggie Bush made some spectacular plays while in college. Barry Sanders should be there, I dont mind Vince being on the list but certainly not #1. Peter Warrick and Rocket Ismail were pretty exciting to watch as well just to name a few

[badger]

No player that needs to be pushed by crosseyed fatso into the endzone to beat Neuter Dam deserves to be label "thrilling." :mad:

[OUMallen]

No Barry Sanders in the top 10? pshhhhhhh.....

This.

[footballfanatic]

Strongly disagree, Reggie Bush made some spectacular plays while in college. Barry Sanders should be there, I dont mind Vince being on the list but certainly not #1. Peter Warrick and Rocket Ismail were pretty exciting to watch as well just to name a few

Say what you want about VY now, but there is no doubt that he performed at an amazing level on the biggest stage. Other players deserving of recognition:

Billy Pruitt. Joe Washington.

[Collier11]

In the Rose Bowl and the natl title game he was a stud

[Sooner04]

Peter Warrick?

In '99 Vick was the most thrilling player I'd seen in my lifetime. The guy was incredible. He was the only reason Florida State didn't win that game by 50.

[badger]

Like Barack Obama's bwacket, you have to wonder if this is a true assessment of thrilling playmakers... or a pander-bot trying to pander to key audiences.

I mean... look at the areas they chose! Texaz... southernal california... illinois (read: chicago), boston (college), florida... BIG markets!

Army is not a big market... oh wait, we all love our men and women of the armed forces!

Georgia hits the key (and mandatory) SEC demographic... no idea why North Carolina had to be stuck in there... maybe out of habit since ESPN has such an east-coast bias? :rolleyes:

[NormanPride]

There was no thought put into this list. An editor came up to an intern one day and said "we need X amount of copy to cover this blank spot because the tampon ad pulled out on us (hurr)"

Thus, this was born.

[footballfanatic]

Like Barack Obama's bwacket, you have to wonder if this is a true assessment of thrilling playmakers... or a pander-bot trying to pander to key audiences.

I mean... look at the areas they chose! Texaz... southernal california... illinois (read: chicago), boston (college), florida... BIG markets!

Army is not a big market... oh wait, we all love our men and women of the armed forces!

Georgia hits the key (and mandatory) SEC demographic... no idea why North Carolina had to be stuck in there... maybe out of habit since ESPN has such an east-coast bias? :rolleyes:

This isn't really a stinging attack on the article, as this post shows that all regions of the country are represented.

[Collier11]

Peter Warrick?

In '99 Vick was the most thrilling player I'd seen in my lifetime. The guy was incredible. He was the only reason Florida State didn't win that game by 50.

Dont you remember the game that Warrick had against VT. Warrick was a lock for the Heisman til he got in trouble for the Dillards shopping spree

[Sooner04]

Dont you remember the game that Warrick had against VT. Warrick was a lock for the Heisman til he got in trouble for the Dillards shopping spree
Yes. I remember it very well. Thrilling is more than running the fade route.

He was good. But he was more Snoop Minnis than Lynn Swann.

[badger]

:rolleyes: regions. well hey, no need for sam bradford to be on the short list for heisman contention, so long as kolt mccoy is... i mean, texaz is in our region and all and as long as our big 12 and southwest region is represented, i don't mind if ou is mentioned at all!

[Sooner04]

What in the hell are you talking about?

[badger]

This isn't really a stinging attack on the article, as this post shows that all regions of the country are represented.

i was referencing this post... i didn't know that everyone else would jump in quickly between our posts, or i would have quoted it.

[CobraKai]

No Barry Sanders in the top 10? pshhhhhhh.....

That is a HUGE omission. Having seen half of those guys personally, I think Sanders was more thrilling than all of them.

[Collier11]

Yes. I remember it very well. Thrilling is more than running the fade route.

He was good. But he was more Snoop Minnis than Lynn Swann.

Then you dont remember, let me jog your memory cus he was never a fade route receiver ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5-bJK7cpnQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mlbkrn56PY4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zir7JdW2tS0

[MojoRisen]

Marshal Faulk was pretty damn exciting/thrilling
Tim Brown???

[tfoolry]

#44 The BOZ!

[badger]

#44 The BOZ!

Yeah, this list could have also used some defensive players... I probably counted wrong... were there two on there out of the 11 named?

[BoulderSooner79]

Most thrilling OU players I've watched :
Washington, Sims, AD (Bosworth and L.Selmon, Shoate if you count D)
Most thrilling all time:
Sanders

Yeah, VY would be on my list.

[Sooner04]

Then you dont remember, let me jog your memory cus he was never a fade route receiver ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5-bJK7cpnQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mlbkrn56PY4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zir7JdW2tS0
Dime a dozen. I've seen Mark Clayton make those plays too.

[Collier11]

well make up your mind, is he Mark Clayton like or a fade receiver...in fact he was one of the most exciting CFB players when he was around

[badger]

Mark Clayton... great OU receiver, or greatest OU receiver? [/colbert]

Seriously, I'm asking

[Sooner04]

well make up your mind, is he Mark Clayton like or a fade receiver...in fact he was one of the most exciting CFB players when he was around
Here's my answer. He was a good receiver, not a great one.

If you'd told me that you thought a former Florida State WR was one of the top 10 most exciting players in college football history I would've guessed Tamarick Vanover before I ever dreamed of Peter Warrick.

[Collier11]

wow, just wow...Vanover was a great KR but that is it...Warrick was a Heisman finalist and like I said, wouldve won it if he hadnt gotten in trouble

[sooner ngintunr]

No Barry Sanders in the top 10? pshhhhhhh.....


Barry Sanders > Reggie Bush


SI is a bigger joke than ESPN.


I've seen some lame *** lists before, but this is probably the topper.


leaving barry ****ing sanders off this list is a crime

These.

That list is a freaking JOKE!!

[badger]

The lurkers who report back to OP.com with the latest fair weather fan cheatin' gooner comments can take solace in the fact that we are not calling out this list universally for leaving off any of our own... but one of theirs.

And to think... you Pokes didn't want to give your Heisman recipient a Heisman statue for the Centennial... perhaps only Sooner fans appreciate football greatness in this state.

[the_ouskull]

Not having AD I'm good with. Not having Barry Sanders is just f*cking ret*rded. It's obvious that the guy who wrote this list is: 1) under 30, and 2) Googled a couple of older players (ie - the Army guys, Red Grange, et al..) to make him seem smarter than he is... obviously... If you watch football and don't know who Barry Sanders, then you're still allowed to enjoy football, but you're not allowed to talk about it.

the_ouskull

[MojoRisen]

Rocket Ismail??

[SoonerTank]

Rocket Ismail??

My thought exactly. I think the guy who wrote this just wanted to stir things up.

[Sooner04]

Rocket Ismail??
Did they ever track down the perpetrator behind that phantom clip from the '91 Orange Bowl?

Colorado's 1990 "national title" is the most tainted in the history of college football.

[MojoRisen]

Peter Warrick?

In '99 Vick was the most thrilling player I'd seen in my lifetime. The guy was incredible. He was the only reason Florida State didn't win that game by 50.

Dog fighting aside, I would have to take vick over Tebow for thrilling. No comparison.

[Dio]

Being in SI makes this list look like it belongs on the short bus.

Fixed

[swardboy]

Yeah, he turned out to be a terrible human being, but as a college football player OJ had the jets and he turned them on often.

[Salt City Sooner]

No player that needs to be pushed by crosseyed fatso into the endzone to beat Neuter Dam deserves to be label "thrilling." :mad:
My dyslexia must be creepin' back......;)

[Collier11]

Did they ever track down the perpetrator behind that phantom clip from the '91 Orange Bowl?

Colorado's 1990 "national title" is the most tainted in the history of college football.

the phantom clip, the 5th down, etc...

[NormanPride]

Did they ever track down the perpetrator behind that phantom clip from the '91 Orange Bowl?

Colorado's 1990 "national title" is the most tainted in the history of college football.

Quoted for truth. I hates me some beefaloes.

[G8trGr8t]

Barry Sanders, Bo Jackson, and Percy Harvin (homer vote, but electric every time he touched the ball) should be on that list. Much harder for a single defensive player to take over a game the way a great offensive player can so I think they should split a list like this to be fair to the defensive guys. Jack Youngblood was a defensive guy that could just take over a game and dictate to the offense what they could or could not do.

[G8trGr8t]

Damn - red again - what did I do now?

[badger]

psst g8t... isn't one of your colors orange? just think of it as turning yourself one of your school colors :D

[G8trGr8t]

psst g8t... isn't one of your colors orange? just think of it as turning yourself one of your school colors :D

:) Add some blue to the left side and I'm good with it. :)

This board needs more emoticons, lightens it up a little.

I agree with some above that Michael Vick should probably be ont hat list too. Guess it goes to show that great college skills do not always translate into great NFL skills and vice versa.

[Curly Bill]

Guess it goes to show that great college skills do not always translate into great NFL skills and vice versa.

Witness Vince Young as well...

....and witness your boy Tebow when it's time.

[JLEW1818]

dude... Tebow is the next Tom Brady.....................................

[Collier11]

you meant to say Kyle Brady...he will be a TE fool ;)

[JLEW1818]

NO... HE'S GOING TO BE A QB.... AND THE BUFFALO BILLS ARE GOING TO CHANGE THEIR OFFENSE FOR HIM!!!!!!!!!!

[badger]

As long as we're on a Brady streak in comparing Tim Tivo to the like, how bout... Brady Quinn??? :D

[Sooner04]

This thread's done.

[JLEW1818]

As long as we're on a Brady streak in comparing Tim Tivo to the like, how bout... Brady Quinn??? :D

this thread aint nothing with out pics!

[JLEW1818]

http://i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm474/jlew1818/bradyquinn-myspace1.jpg

[G8trGr8t]

Don't you knopw that the Jags are going to tank it this year so they can draft Tebow and hire Meyer? Just ask any opposing recruiter, Meyer is gone somewhere, anywhere, they just won't let it rest.

[JLEW1818]

i don't think he has a myspace.................

[NormanPride]

Don't you knopw that the Jags are going to tank it this year so they can draft The Right Reverend Tim T. Messiah and hire Meyer? Just ask any opposing recruiter, Meyer is gone somewhere, anywhere, they just won't let it rest.

Welcome to the club. Stoops goes to Atlanta every year. :D

[JLEW1818]

Welcome to the club. Stoops goes to Atlanta every year. :D

naw, Dallas next year..... :D :D

[Curly Bill]

naw, Dallas next year..... :D :D

I wish someone would go to Dallas, but I don't want Stoops to go.

[JLEW1818]

I'll be developing my blog page, with NCAA and NFL picks... during early August..

I'll give you a sneak peak.... Cowboys = 7-9

[footballfanatic]

Peter Warrick? I suppose.
Barry Sanders? Yep.
But, whom would you remove? All of these 10 players are deserving. I watched Regge Push single-handedly beat Virginia Tech. Campbell was a beast. VY played at another level at the highest stage.

[footballfanatic]

Red Grange changed the game of college football IN ONE GAME. Can't speak about Butkis, but Flutie was a miracle worker.

[footballfanatic]

Lawrence Taylor MUST have been good. Parcells drafted him with the intention of recreating the linebacker position.

[footballfanatic]

Herschel Walker led Georgia to a title as a true freshman. No one could deal with him. Watch the Sugar Bowl highlights.

[goingoneight]

What about that Brent Rawlmar guy a few years back?

[Statalyzer]

In '99 Vick was the most thrilling player I'd seen in my lifetime. The guy was incredible. He was the only reason Florida State didn't win that game by 50.

Because of his 4.2 yards per carry, or the 10-point swing caused by his fumbles?

[JohnnyMack]

Why wasn't Barry Sanders on the list again?

[NormanPride]

Because it's SI, and they like to hire chimps to do their quick write-ups.

[GKeeper316]

One name is missing...

Joe Washington.

I can think of others, but if this is missing, then as someone said - this is a short bus list.

honestly... id put barry sanders in before joe washington. barry sanders was the greatest rb at any level, ever.

[sooner94]

The list needs Barry Sanders, Michael Vick.

VY is too high. MAYBE he should be on the list but its debatable. Definitely not #1.

[SoonerShark]

Barry Sanders > Reggie Bush

Amen. Barry Sanders should easily be number one.

[SoonerShark]

dude... The Right Reverend Tim T. Messiah is the next Tom Brady.....................................

He's running for mayor of L.A.? Oh, wait, that's Tom Bradley.

[SoonerShark]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/austin_murphy/06/26/thrill.list/index.html


1. Vince Young, *Texas*
Even before his near-miraculous, national-title-clinching performance in the '06 Rose Bowl (VY passed for 267 yards and rushed for an even 200, including a game-winning, nine-yard scramble with 19 seconds remaining), the rangy dual-threat QB specialized in leading outrageous, you-cannot-be-serious comebacks: from 28 points down against Oklahoma State in 2004; from 10 down against Michigan in the 2005 Rose Bowl, after which he had the prescience to promise, "We'll be back!"

Wasn't UT 1-3 against OU as a redshirt, reserve who played and starter?

[SoonerShark]

You would think that with 2 of the top two players UT would have won more than three national championships. Were those two players' positions DrawBack?

[tulsaoilerfan]

I don't know that Earl was that thrilling, but he was a bad, bad, man when he carried the football; i also agree that Barry Sanders was the most thrilling player in the history of college football; the man was simply amazing and a threat to go the distance every time he touched the ball

[the_ouskull]

Damn - red again - what did I do now?

Don't ask me, ask Kierkegaard.

the_ouskull

[Jacie]

I don't know that Earl was that thrilling, but he was a bad, bad, man when he carried the football; i also agree that Barry Sanders was the most thrilling player in the history of college football; the man was simply amazing and a threat to go the distance every time he touched the ball

As bad, bad as Earl was, his record against the Sooners would not include any wins (whorns went 1-1-1 in the three games he played vs OU) had the Sooner D not knocked out both the first and second string QB's, forcing the whorns to play their scout team QB, Randy McCeachern. OU was ahead at that point. Poor Randy could only run one play . . . hand off to Earl. The sa*et coach, Akers, never woulda figured that out on his own. He'd have foolishly tried to throw the ball to try and come from behind and that would've played right into OUr hands.

Barry, of course, was ofer vs. OU . . .

[footballfanatic]

As bad, bad as Earl was, his record against the Sooners would not include any wins (w*horns* went 1-1-1 in the three games he played vs OU) had the Sooner D not knocked out both the first and second string QB's, forcing the w*horns* to play their scout team QB, Randy McCeachern. OU was ahead at that point. Poor Randy could only run one play . . . hand off to Earl. The sa*et coach, Akers, never woulda figured that out on his own. He'd have foolishly tried to throw the ball to try and come from behind and that would've played right into OUr hands.

Barry, of course, was ofer vs. OU . . .

Right. 'm sure the most prized recruit in the country wouldn't have seen the football. Regardless, this isn't about wins vs opponents, but rather ability to thrill onlookers. Earl was a pounder, but he could thrill you with his speed. His son played at or high school here in Austin, and was a good running back, as well. His lack of speed may have kept him from the big time, but I believe he is playing at SDSU.

[MichiganSooner]

Doug Flutie? How many Hail Mary's did he throw?

Where is Charles Woodsen, Archie Griffin?

[Wishboned]

Joe Washington should have been on that list. It's a shame that he isn't.

But the lack of Barry Sanders makes that list a crime against college football. He was more exciting in one season than the rest of those players were their entire career.

[ashley]

Where are Washington, Sanders, Vick, Bo Jackson and OJ. I agree with Young for sure but Flutie for heavens sake.

[Jacie]

Right. 'm sure the most prized recruit in the country wouldn't have seen the football. Regardless, this isn't about wins vs opponents, but rather ability to thrill onlookers. Earl was a pounder, but he could thrill you with his speed. His son played at or high school here in Austin, and was a good running back, as well. His lack of speed may have kept him from the big time, but I believe he is playing at SDSU.

I was at that game and on the play where McCeachern came in UT was inside their own 10-yard line, which that quarter was down at the Sooner fan's end of the field. We were yelling so loudly to disrupt the snap count I thought OUr defense might score on that possession. They already had a couple of INT's. And even though it was a defensive struggle, OU appeared to be in control. From that point on, however, it became Earl's game. Today a team in that situation would probably direct snap it to the back but no one had heard of the Wild Hog formation in 1977.

[BoulderSooner79]

As bad, bad as Earl was, his record against the Sooners would not include any wins (w*horns* went 1-1-1 in the three games he played vs OU) had the Sooner D not knocked out both the first and second string QB's, forcing the w*horns* to play their scout team QB, Randy McCeachern. OU was ahead at that point. Poor Randy could only run one play . . . hand off to Earl. The sa*et coach, Akers, never woulda figured that out on his own. He'd have foolishly tried to throw the ball to try and come from behind and that would've played right into OUr hands.

Barry, of course, was ofer vs. OU . . .

I was at that game too. It was a great defensive struggle and Earl was the difference maker. But I think we would have won if we hadn't lost both Lott and Sims to injury in the tOSU game (the Von Schauman kick).

[RedstickSooner]

Barry Sanders not only has to be on the list, he has to be in the top 3.

And, I agree -- while he's a scumbag of a person, Michael Vick was one of the most exciting college players I ever saw play... Even though he played for a team I don't like or follow.

I don't think any Sooners should be added to the list, because I think I'm too biased. So, I only advocate non-Sooners be included -- as I figure if they didn't wear the Crimson & Cream and I *still* like them, they must be pretty good.

Say, mods, notice how I use the asterisks? Yup, we're still doing the world a great disservice with our emphasis of Tejas. One asterisk. To the side. Seriously.