Schoolin' is spensive

[Sooner_Havok]

3 years of Law school is going to cast twice as much as 5 years of undergrad cost me...

Student loans are fun :D :(

[OUMallen]

Word to the wise: those loans are life altering. It ain't like med school where you're almost certainly going ot be making plenty of dough when you get out....PLENTY of young law grads can't make enough money to service their loans, then get stuck in jobs they don't like, etc.

Consider very strongly whether you want to go or not if you're having to take out loans.

[OUDoc]

Word to the wise: those loans are life altering. It ain't like med school where you're almost certainly going ot be making plenty of dough when you get out....PLENTY of young law grads can't make enough money to service their loans, then get stuck in jobs they don't like, etc.

Consider very strongly whether you want to go or not if you're having to take out loans.

Med schools loans blow as well.

[Collier11]

Bachelor degree loans suck a bunch too

[walkoffsooner]

Be a electrician rich beyond belief.:rolleyes:

[Sooner_Havok]

Hopefully if I bust my *** I can get a little scholarship help down the line.

[royalfan5]

I'm just glad I'm only paying for one wasted year of law school instead of three.

[AlbqSooner]

Law school expensive??? pfffft

Wait till you see what they charge for the books!

[Curly Bill]

Glad my schoolin was done before the costs skyrocketed. :D

...and I just did miss it, but my younger bro got in on the ground floor of it.

[Sooner_Havok]

Law school expensive??? pfffft

Wait till you see what they charge for the books!

I can only imagine.

I learned my lesson though, After buying the $400 book, I will just keep the damned thing rather than selling it back for $15.

That or use amazon or craigslist.

[olevetonahill]

I can only imagine.

I learned my lesson though, After buying the $400 book, I will just keep the damned thing rather than selling it back for $15.

That or use amazon or craigslist, To Buy em .

Fixed bro
Or ya could Try to win the Lotto;)

[bluedogok]

Makes that $350 or so a semester I had seem awfully cheap...

[Sooner_Havok]

Fixed bro
Or ya could Try to win the Lotto;)

Hell vet, they print a "new edition" every 9 months. The schools, not wanting to be perceived as teaching "old material", then dutifully requires that the new book be used. As a result, old books become worthless, as well as pointless to buy.

Those jerk-offs at the textbook publishing companies have created themselves a nice little racket.

I will buy whatever I can from the internets though. Gots to save as much money as possible to buy teh ramen noodles.

[Sooner_Havok]

Makes that $350 or so a semester I had seem awfully cheap...

:mad:

[bluedogok]

That was my freshman year at OU in 1982....it went up consistently after that. I know UT has been going up more than that each semester. Now in-state tuition is more than what out of state was back then.

[Curly Bill]

Makes that $350 or so a semester I had seem awfully cheap...

I think that's about what my first few semesters at Southeastern were, but yup, about the time I graduated in 89 it started going up, and up, and up, and up, and up, and up....

[Turd_Ferguson]

I think that's about what my first few semesters at Southeastern were, but yup, about the time I graduated in 89 it started going up, and up, and up, and up, and up, and up....Heh. What were the roaring 20's like:confused: :D

[Curly Bill]

Heh. What were the roaring 20's like:confused: :D

Hanging out with Dillinger and the guys was a lotta fun. :D

[Frozen Sooner]

3 years of Law school is going to cast twice as much as 5 years of undergrad cost me...

Student loans are fun :D :(

My book list is gonna run me about $600 the first semester WITHOUT any packaged outlines etc.

Of course, since I'll be at 'Bama I can just get a football player to buy them for me.

Tuition is a beeeyatch, fo sho'.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Word to the wise: those loans are life altering. It ain't like med school where you're almost certainly going ot be making plenty of dough when you get out....PLENTY of young law grads can't make enough money to service their loans, then get stuck in jobs they don't like, etc.

Consider very strongly whether you want to go or not if you're having to take out loans.

It's so sad and a bit sickening to see so many students who come to college and choose some major of which they have no understanding e.g., "I'm going to be an electrical engineer!"


Last year's Hit of the Year, made with actual phone messages from student loan debt collectors - cleverest song ever:

The beast that swallows its young (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtIM_TEQxwA)

[OKC-SLC]

Med schools loans blow as well.

In.

[Okla-homey]

3 years of Law school is going to cast twice as much as 5 years of undergrad cost me...

Student loans are fun :D :(

Unsolicited advice: Do not borrow a dime more than you really need. Do not be one of those dumarses who borrow the max, because they don't wanna work while in school. That is moronic.

One more thing; remember, you will begin making payments in November following your graduation in May -- whether you've passed the bar by then or not. And student loan debt is not dischargable in bankruptcy,

[olevetonahill]

Unsolicited advice: Do not borrow a dime more than you really need. Do not be one of those dumarses who borrow the max, because they don't wanna work while in school. That is moronic.

One more thing; remember, you will begin making payments in November following your graduation in May -- whether you've passed the bar by then or not. And student loan debt is not dischargable in bankruptcy,

Homey speaks Wisdom

[OUMallen]

Unsolicited advice: Do not borrow a dime more than you really need. Do not be one of those dumarses who borrow the max, because they don't wanna work while in school. That is moronic.


I don't recommend ANYONE even attempt to work during their first three semesters of law school, and certainly not the first semester. And honestly, if you want to ensure maximum awesomeness, don't work at all. It IS your job.

[OUMallen]

(They won't give you loans over the summer if you're not in school.)

[Okla-homey]

I don't recommend ANYONE even attempt to work during their first year of law school, and certainly not the first semester.

Why? I worked after my first semester and did fine. It's not rocket surgery. It's just an expensive trade school.

[OUMallen]

That speaks to your aptitude more than how good of an idea it is. It's not ideal.

[OUMallen]

Also, I didn't have to pay in November after graduating....I think mine started in Jan or Feb or so, and I didn't ask for any extra grace period.

[Okla-homey]

That speaks to your aptitude more than how good of an idea it is. It's not ideal.

Look. First-year, second semester, you're in class what? Maybe 6 hours a day, Mon thru Thursday. It is certainly possible to work 15 or 20 hours a week doing something to pay for your beer and skittles while leaving plenty of time to study.

In fact, I maintain it IS ideal to work in law school because part of being a good lawyer is mastering practical time management skillz. If you are the sort of person who must focus solely on school in order to make the grade you are going to be a disaster as a lawyer.

[OUMallen]

...and that's why schools and prep materials tell you it's not a great idea to work your first year? You're super-attorney and super-student, we get it. Pin a rose on your nose. Although I note even you didn't work 20 hours a week your first semester.

But if you're taking advantage of studying and are sufficiently involved in clinics, competitions, law review, and other extracurriculars, not everyone is going to be able to balance 20 hours of work, and not everyone should. Period. And to claim that everyone should is what I would call bad advice.

Now if you do take 40-50hrs/week to actually learn the material (Karl Llewellyn himself suggested 60 hours/week for 1Ls), you're going to be a crappy lawyer? Come on, homey. That doesn't even make sense.

[badger]

I realize in retrospect that being able to graduate without outstanding student loans was a tremendous gift.

Parents - if you can afford to help out your kids, it's something they will grow to appreciate the rest of their lives.

Also, if you're thinking it will teach junior a lesson to have to pay for college on his own without any support, remember that FAFSA views it as a parent's responsibility, not the government's, to fund higher ed, even if they're 18 years old.

[OUMallen]

I realize in retrospect that being able to graduate without outstanding student loans was a tremendous gift.



I didn't appreciate it until I paid for law school on my own with loans....DANG, it's a huge huge tremendous gift to get out of undergrad without loans! You said it, baj!

[Collier11]

I realize in retrospect that being able to graduate without outstanding student loans was a tremendous gift.


I wouldnt know :(

[OUMallen]

I wouldnt know :(

I knew, and then I went to law school. :( :confused: :(

[Collier11]

A big problem with student loans in undergrad is the availability to have as much as you want basically...I know it all comes down to making good choices and being responsible but when you are 19 or 20 and you only need $6k and they offer you $20k per semester, it is tough to say know to a little extra.

[King Crimson]

the academic publishing industry is one of the biggest rackets going. made all the evil more and desperate because they fear/know some of form of digital content delivery will be available at some point. probably in the form of licensing material for a semester through a password or student ID #, or something like that.

9 times out of 10 the CD-ROM or DVD that comes with a 120$ textbook (which you are also paying for) is about as useless as that styro Heineken coaster you found in your pocket after that the night at the bar.

[OUMallen]

9 times out of 10 the CD-ROM or DVD that comes with a 120$ textbook (which you are also paying for) is the about as useless as that styro Heineken coaster you found in your pocket after that the night at the bar.

That coaster is MORE useful in my house.

[King Crimson]

That coaster is MORE useful in my house.

you mean that St. Pauli Girl coaster is MORE useful at your house:D , ;)

[Sooner04]

I know it all comes down to making good choices and being responsible but when you are 19 or 20 and you only need $6k and they offer you $20k per semester, it is tough to say know to a little extra.
Think of all the money that could've been spent on English classes.




;)

[badger]

the academic publishing industry is one of the biggest rackets going.

Hi students! Welcome to introductory subject 1013! Please note that the new textbook you all purchased is essential to class... not really. You will not read it, but I require you to purchase it for the single exam we will have at the end of the term.

Buyback?! hahahahaha, I co-wrote this book and I will spend the entire semester writing a newer edition of the book instead of teaching you! So anyways, you are going to keep my book and not sell anything back to any store, hahaha!

Oh, and this is your teaching assistant, Viktor Krum. He will be teaching the class for the rest of the semester. Toodles!

[Collier11]

Think of all the money that could've been spent on English classes.




;)

Jerk! Whats funny is that I was an English major for 2 years...but youre still a jerk ;)

[OUMallen]

Hi students! Welcome to introductory subject 1013! Please note that the new textbook you all purchased is essential to class... not really. You will not read it, but I require you to purchase it for the single exam we will have at the end of the term.

Buyback?! hahahahaha, I co-wrote this book and I will spend the entire semester writing a newer edition of the book instead of teaching you! So anyways, you are going to keep my book and not sell anything back to any store, hahaha!

Oh, and this is your teaching assistant, Viktor Krum. He will be teaching the class for the rest of the semester. Toodles!

Had a prof in law school. He wrote the book, but was at that school for only a year, then moved on...the dude was basically going from law school to law school, teaching a little, requiring his text, then moving on when he felt like it and made the next bunch of saps buy his text...and because he DID have his name on a text, he seemed just fancy enough to some schools to get away with it! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Spray]

Anyone considering law school should take a very serious look at the current job market for recent graduates and really think if you want to be a lawyer or just a law school grad...

The profession is on the verge of a drastic shift in hiring philosphies that has already started with the large firms. The apprenticeship model may very well be the wave of the future- that means less responsibility for new associates, but also much less pay. The amount of deferred starts for this year's graduates is eye-opening.

[Okla-homey]

see below


...and that's why schools and prep materials tell you it's not a great idea to work your first year? You're super-attorney and super-student, we get it. Pin a rose on your nose. Although I note even you didn't work 20 hours a week your first semester.

I didn't work first semester of my IL year, but I did so every semester thereafter. Most of my friends did too. And, FWIW, I learned as much about the law clerking as I did in law skool.

But if you're taking advantage of studying and are sufficiently involved in clinics, competitions, law review, and other extracurriculars, not everyone is going to be able to balance 20 hours of work, and not everyone should. Period. And to claim that everyone should is what I would call bad advice.

I disagree. Incurring $90K+ of law skool debt in this economy is bad advice. You can fit it all in. Law review, "extracurriculars," clinics, work, and family. I know too many, in addition to myself, who did so successfully to suggest otherwise.

Now if you do take 40-50hrs/week to actually learn the material (Karl Llewellyn himself suggested 60 hours/week for 1Ls), you're going to be a crappy lawyer? Come on, homey. That doesn't even make sense.

I maintain you'll be a crappy lawyer, or burn-out quickly, if you can't manage your time effectively. Moreover, I didn't know anyone who spent 60 hrs a week studying. Granted, some people may have spent that much time in the library, but it was liberally interspersed with bullsh1t sessions, internet surfing and other time wasters. The fact is, working 15-20 hours a week is feasible and I maintain it's advisable. Unless someone else is paying your tuition. We'll just have to agree to disagree on the point.


The point is, don't incurr more debt than absolutely necessary. And the amount necessary depends on how much you can earn part-time plus how much merit-based aid you can rack-up.

[Vaevictis]

Hi students! Welcome to introductory subject 1013! Please note that the new textbook you all purchased is essential to class... not really. You will not read it, but I require you to purchase it for the single exam we will have at the end of the term.

My favorite is the guy in the OU CS department that wrote his own book, couldn't get it published, and so self-publishes out of the binding company in the student union, and charges like $40 for a spiral bound copy.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

The trend is on-line books to help reduce the cost.

[AlbqSooner]

Publish or perish the professors are told. Having published, the easiest way to market is to require your students to purchase your book for the classes you teach. The farther up the academic ladder you go, the fewer students to whom you can market said publication. Hence, once you reach law school or med school, take your KY to the bookstore along with your list of required books.

[King Crimson]

publish or perish generally refers to peer reviewed academic journals more than books a prof wrote and assigned....the former you are supposed to crank out at a Stephen King type pace.

it's an overwhelming minority of profs who "write a book" and assign it as a way to market oneself. there are just better ways to do it.

how many copies are we talking about selling, 25, 40, 170? that's not much in the grand scheme if other profs at other schools aren't adopting the book. if they are, then it's probably because the book has merit. most university publications by profs are geared towards an academic audience of peers...which again limits the scope of potential readership. these are books that, if assigned, are going to upper div classes or grad classes. again, not a big payday.

the real scoundrels are the publishing houses for lecture hall class textbooks, not single author academic books which have almost no sales and are usually out of print in a year or two (for that reason). academic publishing makes *very few* profs any money at all.

[The Remnant]

Law schools do give out scholarships. Full, partial, etc...

[Collier11]

Publish or perish the professors are told. Having published, the easiest way to market is to require your students to purchase your book for the classes you teach. The farther up the academic ladder you go, the fewer students to whom you can market said publication. Hence, once you reach law school or med school, take your KY to the bookstore along with your list of required books.

The problem with this other than price and on a whole other topic is that sometimes(alot of times) you get these cocky professors that decide that what they have to say is more important than sticking to what is most accurate

[Jboozer]

all right.. Now everyone has me scared ****less to start law school in Aug. WTF. Its too late to stop now. oh well....

[King Crimson]

everyone is an expert on higher education.

[Frozen Sooner]

Law schools do give out scholarships. Full, partial, etc...

I'm well aware. :D

[olevetonahill]

everyone is an expert on higher education.

Not me :eek:
Now if ya wanta know about the 3rd Grade I can hep ya :D

[Collier11]

Not me :eek:
Now if ya wanta know about the 3rd Grade boys I can hep ya :D

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[olevetonahill]

:eek: :eek: :eek:

I aint MJ :P

[Collier11]

but youve got the OVJ

[Frozen Sooner]

see below



The point is, don't incurr more debt than absolutely necessary. And the amount necessary depends on how much you can earn part-time plus how much merit-based aid you can rack-up.

K-

When I was visiting Alabama, they told me that the ABA recommends that schools forbid 1Ls from working and highly encourage that 2Ls only work 20/week and that the work be in the legal field. To that end, Alabama requires that first year students submit a statement of financial hardship in order to work.

If I remember correctly, a couple of the other schools I was looking at had this same requirement.

[47straight]

I recommend not working your first year. Get the absolute best grades you can and it will open more doors for you to actually get a decent job when you get out. Reducing your debt load by a few thousand bucks isn't worth wrecking your career from the get-go.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

What are the most enjoyable and least enjoyable things about being an attorney?

[Frozen Sooner]

What are the most enjoyable things about being an attorney?

To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and here the lamentations of their women.

At least, that's why I'm doing it.

[Okla-homey]

K-

When I was visiting Alabama, they told me that the ABA recommends that schools forbid 1Ls from working and highly encourage that 2Ls only work 20/week and that the work be in the legal field. To that end, Alabama requires that first year students submit a statement of financial hardship in order to work.

If I remember correctly, a couple of the other schools I was looking at had this same requirement.

The ABA also recommends state bars not allow folks who did not graduate from an ABA-accredited law school to sit for their bar exam, but the state of Alabama ignores that advice.

And yes, dumb people probably shouldn't try to work while in school. They could end up flunking-out. Funny thing is, I never knew anyone who flunked-out who was working while in school.

[badger]

What are the most enjoyable and least enjoyable things about being an attorney?

Not an attorney, so I will ask our attorneys to advise on whether this is true...

Enjoyable: Helping others in times of their legal needs.
Un-enjoyable: Long hours, working holidays and weekends, work work work

[Vaevictis]

Un-enjoyable: Having a reputation for being scum.
Enjoyable: Actually being scum.

[Okla-homey]

Enjoyable: helping clients you like.
Unenjoyable: helping clients you dislike.

[King Crimson]

enjoyable: teaching the 2 in 10 students who actually do most of the assigned work and helping them understand difficult concepts and actually "learn" something about the world they live in.
unenjoyable: dealing with the other 8 of 10 who lie, will cheat anyway possible and then complain they aren't "learning anything" and while never doing the work or readings. funny, how those two things go hand in hand.

in today's world, the teacher/prof is supposed to make college "fun", "entertaining" and the "transmission of information/communication" as painless as clicking on a download or as passive as watching reality TV. in other words, students shouldn't have to try and everything should be done for them.

[OklahomaTuba]

Funny how that 80/20 rule seems to apply so universally to everything.

[badger]

I've found that as the classes get more advanced, the class sized not only get smaller, but the students remaining are more dedicated.

The 80/20 scenario is more for the 101's (1013's at OU, heh) intro courses. Freshmen will be way in over their head by week 2, when they've stayed out all night despite the fact that they have an 8 a.m.'er the next morning.

If you wanna really have fun with this topic, go to sites like PickaProf or RatemyProfessor and read some of the comments :D

[Collier11]

I've found that as the classes get more advanced, the class sized not only get smaller, but the students remaining are more dedicated.



No crap :D

[Jacie]

S'more experiences:

1971, I'm a highschool graduate bussing tables and washing dishes in my father's restaurant. My draft lottery number is in the 300's so that wasn't an issue. Come September, everyone but me going to school and with nothing else on the horizon I talked to an Army recruiter. I was this close to taking the oath. Told my dad what I'd done. He reaches in his pocket, pulls out a roll of bills, peels off a hundred and says, "Here. Go enroll at Central State (the college turned university in Edmond where big brother and sister went). So, two weeks after classes started I go to college on $100. It wound up costing a little more than that but not too much more. It wasn't till I started at OU the next year and had to pay tuition of about 30% more per credit hour than CSU plus room and board that college cost over $600/semester. Still, my dad was able to cover the entire four and a half years from cash he had in his pocket rather than me taking out a loan.

Forward 20+ years when I go back to school to get a masters degree. A year and half of school later I have a student loan of $15K to pay back.

As for kids borrowing money they don't need:

My wife took it upon herself to learn everything a responsible parent needs to know about FAFSA and such when oldest daughter started college. About halfway through her first semester she calls to ask about her refund check. Apparently, all her college friends were getting these checks from the Bursar's Office just in time to cash for fall break trips. Mother informs daughter not to hold her breath as she applied for enough money to pay for tuition, books, room and board and to her knowledge, the university was not holding anything extra to be refunded. Daughter was suitably put out at the time not having a windfall to go party on but now as an adult making those oh-so-fun monthly payments the fact that it is an amount she can cover is not lost on her (as wife occassionally reminds that someone exercised fiscal responsibility when daughter hadn't yet learned any).

Parents of college-bound children: don't depend on your kids to be adults at 18 but rather take the time to learn everything you can about the student loan process. The child you raise may not have to move back home after college if you do!