View Full Version : Does the SEC deserve a break every year? CFN thnks so.
footballfanatic
7/6/2009, 11:26 AM
Interesting debate featured on CFN. Don't hate the messenger.
http://cfn.scout.com/2/877243.html
soonerfan28
7/6/2009, 12:08 PM
F*CK NO! We have just as many teams in the title hunt most every year as they do. This year for-instance we have Texas and OU and they have Florida and maybe Bama. It would be a stretch, but OSU has as much of a chance as Ole Miss.
No conference deserves any benefits over another because of previous seasons, and as much as I cringe to say it... no conference deserves the opposite, either.
Ohio State shouldn't be denied the championship just because it's lost two of them recently.
Nor should Oklahoma.
Nor should Big 10 schools be denied their Rose Bowl berth even if they get annually thrashed by USC (or Texaz).
Big East shouldn't lose its BCS bid just because they lost their top programs a few years ago.
ACC shouldn't be diminished just because they've had a few off-years after years of top teams.
The Mid-majors shouldn't be left out of the BCS just because their conferences have easy conference schedules.
The Majors shouldn't be left out of the BCS just because their easy non-conference schedules.
:les:EQUAL FOOTING FOR EQUAL FOOTBALL [hairGel]
jumperstop
7/6/2009, 12:42 PM
If you’ve navigated the clear-cut toughest conference in the country, including a neutral-site championship game, shouldn’t you get the benefit of the doubt in a subjective system?
I don't know what game they were at, but the 2007 and 2008 NCG were definately not neutral. Dumb people, I guess they think that a fan ratio of 80:20 is neutral.
JLEW1818
7/6/2009, 12:42 PM
the WAC conference... by far the best
soonerfan28
7/6/2009, 12:44 PM
I ain't makin' excuses, but I remember those "neutral sites" in 2003 and 2008. I also remember 2000 so you can look at it any way you wanna.
I don't know what game they were at, but the 2007 and 2008 NCG were definately not neutral. Dumb people, I guess they think that a fan ratio of 80:20 is neutral.
'Tis tough to declare a neutral site... when bowl games gotta be in the south because of cold weather up north come bowl season.
It's not the SEC's fault their weather is so d@mn perfect for a winter vacation. :D
What, do YOU wanna fight for the title in the middle of a snow storm?
soonerfan28
7/6/2009, 12:47 PM
What, do YOU wanna fight for the title in the middle of a snow storm?
Hell yea! They do it in the NFL. Dallas and Green Bay........1967.
Hell yea! They do it in the NFL. Dallas and Green Bay........1967.
:D:D:D:D:D:D I wasn't even born, but that NFC Championship game makes me :)
soonerfan28
7/6/2009, 12:55 PM
Yea and I'm a Dallas fan.
JLEW1818
7/6/2009, 12:59 PM
first thing I'm doing when i walk into Jerry's World on September 5th, is going to the bathroom and pissing on the wall.
Gonna record it on my phone..... (it won't show anything bad)
and post it to youtube
NOBODY STEAL MY IDEA DAMMIT!
NOBODY STEAL MY IDEA DAMMIT!
Checklist of things to do to pizz on Jerryworld, figuratively and literally:
1- Snap a pic of just your left/right hand flipping off Jerryworld... no face or anything, just your hand.
2- Thumbs down shot at the sign that announces how much parking costs.
3- You and several others using binoculars or other means to try to figure out what the hell is going on below because your seats are too d@mn far away.
4- Your kid or another one crying in front of overpriced concession stands or souvenir shops.
5- Convince a BYU fan to do something un-Mormon like that shames the Cowboys in some fashion.
Other ideas?
JLEW1818
7/6/2009, 01:13 PM
lol... not bad Badger!
tidalmouse
7/6/2009, 01:21 PM
YES........................ :D
DMAFB_Sooner08
7/6/2009, 01:32 PM
I don't know what game they were at, but the 2007 and 2008 NCG were definately not neutral. Dumb people, I guess they think that a fan ratio of 80:20 is neutral.
I think they are referring to the SEC championship game. Not 100% sure, but who knows.
SbOrOiNaEnR
7/6/2009, 02:37 PM
Hell yea! They do it in the NFL. Dallas and Green Bay........1967.
Ice Bowl. GREAT game. I've got it on DVD somewhere. My favorite story about that game is that Vince Lombardi wouldn't let his players wear gloves, so one of the offensive linemen (who was black) told the trainer, "Hey, get me a pair of brown gloves. He'll never notice."
JLEW1818
7/6/2009, 02:39 PM
LSU ON ESPN RIGHT NOW...... or should i say the state of Louisiana
footballfanatic
7/6/2009, 03:16 PM
SEC--I think the conference is what college football is all about, but the idea of them getting a break for having the toughest league is silly.
fadada1
7/6/2009, 05:15 PM
they should get a break because they are (simply) the fastest conference in the history of mankind.
weren't there 4 Big12 schools in the top 9 at one point this year? pretty f-ing tough, if you ask me.
cheezyq
7/6/2009, 05:19 PM
I lost interest when the first person to respond was Pete Fiutak. That guy can't tie his own shoes without getting confused. His response here is no different. "Well, Utah beat Alabama, but what if Florida loses at LSU and beats them again and West Virginia goes undefeated, but what if monkeys flew out of my butt and then on the other hand, what if pigs flew..."
There's a word for guys like him...retarded.
rainiersooner
7/6/2009, 06:06 PM
I don't think the question is posed correctly - because giving them a "break" implies rewarding them for the historical value of the league over other leagues. But, if the question is who do I think is more deserving - a one loss Florida (for instance losing to LSU) or an undefeated Ohio State, my guess is that Florida would be more deserving of being in the MNC game. But it shouldn't be because they're being given a break - it should be because they played a tougher schedule against higher quality opponents. That's not giving someone a break, that's trying to deal with all the facts that exist.
bluedogok
7/6/2009, 08:19 PM
Hell yea! They do it in the NFL. Dallas and Green Bay........1967.
Not anymore, they are either in the south or indoors or both. The conference champion games, yes they still are.
soonerfan28
7/6/2009, 08:25 PM
I was only saying that I would like to see the games on the collegiate level played in any kind of weather. I think that's part of the reason that the Cotton Bowl wasn't part of the BCS. The other part was that the Cotton Bowl needed major upgrades 11 years ago.
I was only saying that I would like to see the games on the collegiate level played in any kind of weather. I think that's part of the reason that the Cotton Bowl wasn't part of the BCS. The other part was that the Cotton Bowl needed major upgrades 11 years ago.
Didn't this cause the mayor ouster?
From the way I remember it on here, it was like she was saying "Football wasn't important," then she realized that it was the only thing keeping Dallas people sane.
NormanPride
7/7/2009, 09:22 AM
Dallas people are sane?
Dallas people are sane?
Not anymore - aren't the Cowboys in a suburb now? That leaves them INsane most of the year, excluding the few games that are in the Cotton Bowl... which basically means 11 months of insanity... after all, the Cotton Bowl's gonna be in Jerryworld too.
;)
bluedogok
7/7/2009, 11:39 AM
They have been in a suburb (Irving) since 1971 before moving to Arlington for this season.
It wasn't just the mayor that didn't care, it was all the other mayors (council members) that were against it unless they could get something for their districts. That is the root cause of the problems in City of Dallas gov't, you might get yours if I can get me some.
TopDawg
7/7/2009, 11:47 AM
:les:EQUAL FOOTING FOR EQUAL FOOTBALL [hairGel]
Isn't that the point, though? Voters don't give equal footing because in their opinion, the football isn't equal. It's tougher to win the SEC than the Mountain West...right?
It's tougher to win the SEC than the Mountain West...right?
Let's play devil's advocate and say no. No, it isn't tougher to win in the SEC than in the Mountain West.
After all... if it really were tougher to win in the SEC than Mountain West, shouldn't an SEC team have no problem beating a Mountain West team?
http://photos.upi.com/slideshow/lbox/3617e6172f79b52c6c0f8a240316bc72/Sugar-Bowl-Utah-Alabama.jpg
Before anyone uses the same argument in trying to say "Big 12 ain't tougher than the WAC then!" remember that our game with Bois Estate came down to the final play, whereas the team that was a divisional champion in the SEC was not even close... two touchdown loss to the Mountain West champion - 31-17 - proving that unlike our Fiesta Bowl, the Sugar Bowl was no fluke.
jumperstop
7/7/2009, 12:11 PM
Let's play devil's advocate and say no. No, it isn't tougher to win in the SEC than in the Mountain West.
After all... if it really were tougher to win in the SEC than Mountain West, shouldn't an SEC team have no problem beating a Mountain West team?
http://photos.upi.com/slideshow/lbox/3617e6172f79b52c6c0f8a240316bc72/Sugar-Bowl-Utah-Alabama.jpg
Before anyone uses the same argument in trying to say "Big 12 ain't tougher than the WAC then!" remember that our game with Bois Estate came down to the final play, whereas the team that was a divisional champion in the SEC was not even close... two touchdown loss to the Mountain West champion - 31-17 - proving that unlike our Fiesta Bowl, the Sugar Bowl was no fluke.
I remember I went to O'connells for this game and was going to play a drinking game with my friend. We each took a team and I gave her Bama so that she didn't get too drunk and I got sauced. Turns out Bama sucked and I didn't really have to drink that much.
But there is no doubt that SEC is better than the Mountain West top to bottom. The top team might be able to beat the top team on a given day, same with BSU and OU, but Utah would not have made it through the SEC undefeated. They almost lost to TCU who we beat by 30.
Remember, I'm just playing devil's advocate here, so let us go a tad bit further...
The top two SEC teams, in their bowls, beat the top Big 12 team and lost to the top Mountain West team.
The top two Mountain West teams, in their bowls, beat a previously-undefeated team and the second-best SEC team.
TopDawg
7/7/2009, 12:19 PM
Remember, I'm just playing devil's advocate here, so let us go a tad bit further...
The top two SEC teams, in their bowls, beat the top Big 12 team and lost to the top Mountain West team.
The top two Mountain West teams, in their bowls, beat a previously-undefeated team and the second-best SEC team.
We're talking about the regular season. Do you think it was tougher for the SEC teams to make it to those respective bowl games or the Mountain West teams?
Hmm... I definitely think it is tougher for a Mountain West team to make it to a BCS game than for an SEC team, and I'm not playing devil's advocate on this statement at all.
SEC teams have a 2 in 12 shot at a BCS berth, recent history shows. This is regardless of what their regular season record is. They can lose a game (or TWO!) and still end up vying for the national title or a BCS at-large.
Mountain West teams must have PERFECT, FLAWLESS regular seasons to make it to the BCS and that is why Mountain West teams have only accomplished this TWICE... and it happens to be by the same school.
SEC has a birthright to the BCS. MWC does not, so without question, it is harder for a MWC to get to the BCS. No chance for error at all, even if your quarterback cries in a press conference about promising to working harder. You lose, you're out of contention, the end.
You gotta give me that. You gotta!
TopDawg
7/7/2009, 12:48 PM
You're changing scenarios.
The top two Mountain West teams, in their bowls, beat a previously-undefeated team and the second-best SEC team.
Then you change it to only BCS bowls.
Mountain West teams must have PERFECT, FLAWLESS regular seasons to make it to the BCS and that is why Mountain West teams have only accomplished this TWICE... and it happens to be by the same school.
Either way, your point about automatic berths is well-taken. So rather than asking "Do you think it was tougher for the SEC teams to make it to those respective bowl games or the Mountain West teams?" I'll ask "Do you think it is tougher for an SEC team to go undefeated in the regular season or a Mountain West team to go undefeated in the regular season?"
NormanPride
7/7/2009, 01:03 PM
Yeah, TD, but this:
We're talking about the regular season. Do you think it was tougher for the SEC teams to make it to those respective bowl games or the Mountain West teams?
Was the question she just answered. Now was it harder for the SEC teams to go through their conference? I would debate that Alabama had an easier road to the SEC championship than Utah did to the Sugar Bowl. Their schedule was a joke, as far as SEC schedules go.
TopDawg
7/7/2009, 01:08 PM
Yeah, TD, but this:
Was the question she just answered. Now was it harder for the SEC teams to go through their conference? I would debate that Alabama had an easier road to the SEC championship than Utah did to the Sugar Bowl. Their schedule was a joke, as far as SEC schedules go.
Technically she didn't answer it because we were talking about two MWC teams in two bowl games last year and she answered a question about MWC in BCS bowl games. The question was about two MWC teams making bowl games last year and her response was about how only one MWC school had ever done it.
Regardless, the mix-up is why I rephrased the question in my last post. She took my question more literally than I expected. That's fair game...I do it all the time. But now it's a different question that's more directly to the point of the discussion.
I think it's interesting that you put the disclaimer "as far as SEC schedules go" at the end of that post.
NormanPride
7/7/2009, 01:09 PM
Yeah, because normally they're not ****. :D
IMO, the SEC was overrated last year. Flawda was awesome, but everyone else was meh.
Yeah, your key word was "those," as in "those bowls."
Seriously, this whole argument was basically devil's advocate up until that point. There is no question in my mind that SEC teams can dream of crystal footballs, while all MWC teams can dream of is knocking off SEC-like teams in the postseason. It's like that Budweiser ad where the animal aspires to be be Budweiser Clydesdale, but was born a donkey.
TopDawg
7/7/2009, 01:15 PM
I don't think there's any question that those mid-major conferences are able to field quality teams every year. So it stands to reason that from time to time one of their teams would be able to knock off a top team from a major conference.
But the question is about how difficult it is to win those conferences. If it's easier to win the MWC than the SEC or Big XII, then that's not "equal football."
:D I should register the screen name "Horse Pig" and continue this devil's advocacy against you, but I'm gonna quit, because it was a joke argument to begin with. Seriously the Mountain West up against the SEC? Who were we kidding...
Utah 31; Bammer 17
Oh yeah... well, the MWC will always have that, even if they have no chance in hell at the crystal football
TopDawg
7/7/2009, 01:32 PM
Well, I do agree with your sentiment in your original post that it shouldn't depend on past seasons.
But then lots of people don't like having the computers in the equation for that very reason: that their assessments don't take previous seasons into account.
I'm through arguing on the issue. I just wanna win a crystal ball... even a bowl win in itself would suffice. So... how to gracefully duck outta this without resorting to more devil's advocacy? Hmm... I KNOW!
http://s3.amazonaws.com/newsok-photos/519093/medium.jpg
TopDawg
7/7/2009, 01:46 PM
Sorry, I didn't realize we were still arguing. I thought by expressing my agreement with what you had said that I had made that clear. ;)
NormanPride
7/7/2009, 01:51 PM
Now, if the rest of the football landscape was made up of MWC-grade football, and the SEC was the lone bastion of high-powered, hard-hitting, gridiron-busting competition, I would understand them needing a break.
But this is not the case. The Big 12 is just as tough, and the ACC isn't too far behind now. The Big East and Big-10 also are fairly rugged, but not as much so as the top two. Also, if the SEC gets a break for having it so hard, shouldn't USC get a penalty for having it so mind-numbingly easy?
Sorry, I didn't realize we were still arguing. I thought by expressing my agreement with what you had said that I had made that clear. ;)
Don't start doggie... I already had Bob Stoops bowing... do I need to photoshop our beloved mascot in now too to make it clear that I'm through with this argument-that-never-was-an-argument-to-begin-with-so-why-are-arguing-now?
:D
TopDawg
7/7/2009, 02:16 PM
Also, if the SEC gets a break for having it so hard, shouldn't USC get a penalty for having it so mind-numbingly easy?
Heh...you could say that they did. They finished the regular season with one loss, just like Florida. Their loss came at about the same time as Florida's (two days apart), was to about the same caliber of team (both finished 8-4) and was on the road...yet they finished the regular season a few spots behind Florida.
It's kinda cyclical. I mean, if we're going to acknowledge that there's a difference between the MWC and the SEC...and that their rankings/post-season invitations, etc. should reflect that...then it stands to reason that we should be looking for similar discrepancies between the other conferences (i.e. - SEC v. Big XII) even if they're not quite so glaring.
I think right now the SEC has earned a spot at the top of the "conference rankings" for what it's worth. I think in the early 2000's, the Big XII had (or should have had) that distinction. It's not a wide gap between the SEC and the Big XII, but I think they have a slight edge. That could change this year, though. Whatever the case, I don't think you should decide at the beginning of the year which conference's teams are going to get the breaks. Let the season play out and then look at it.
TopDawg
7/7/2009, 02:17 PM
Don't start doggie... I already had Bob Stoops bowing... do I need to photoshop our beloved mascot in now too to make it clear that I'm through with this argument-that-never-was-an-argument-to-begin-with-so-why-are-arguing-now?
:D
Geez, all you wanna do is argue. I'm just looking for a discussion. :D
Geez, all you wanna do is argue. I'm just looking for a discussion. :D
:les: I'm not arguing with you! You're the one arguing! [hairGel]
;)
NormanPride
7/7/2009, 02:25 PM
She's bad at those.
;)
She's bad at those.
;)
My, my, I had no idea you wanted to sleep on the couch tonight. Well, that's fine by me dear.
NormanPride
7/7/2009, 04:14 PM
:(
jumperstop
7/7/2009, 04:26 PM
Wow, this is getting intense. It's like a soap opera on this thread. I wonder what will happen next?.?...
NormanPride
7/7/2009, 04:32 PM
Next I go home and fix her dinner.
soonerfan28
7/7/2009, 07:38 PM
I guess NP knows his place.
OU_Sooners75
7/8/2009, 05:49 AM
It is kinda hard to argue against some of the things they say.
The SEC has performed the best in the BCS era. Does that mean they should gain benefits over another BCS conference? No.
If that is the way it should be, then why not just crown the SEC champion the National Champion every year? Yes, they have had a good run...but the Big 8 had a good run in the 1970s and the 1990s. The Big Ten has a good run in the 1940s and the 1960s. The ACC had a good decade in the 1990s, well, FSU did anyway.
These things come and go. Eventually, the tide turns to another conference...and it appears the Big 12 is on that brink.
One thing they did fail to mention, when bringing up the overall conference records in the BCS bowls...of the 9 losses that the Big 12 has received, 5 of them are BCS Title games.
SoonerShark
7/9/2009, 12:25 AM
No conference deserves any benefits over another because of previous seasons, and as much as I cringe to say it... no conference deserves the opposite, either.
Big East shouldn't lose its BCS bid just because they lost their top programs a few years ago.
The Mid-majors shouldn't be left out of the BCS just because their conferences have easy conference schedules.
:les:EQUAL FOOTING FOR EQUAL FOOTBALL [hairGel]
Big East deserves it less than the Mountain West. There are three teams in the Big East now. Let it get down to just Syracuse and let them go to the Syracuse Orange Orange Bowl every year.
footballfanatic
7/10/2009, 03:33 AM
Absolutely no reason to give the SEC a "break" when deciding rankings or bowls. They already get to many breaks from their high number of voters, their contract with CBS, the bizarre fawning commentary from ESPN, are giving them the edge in hype ratings.
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