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JohnnyMack
7/3/2009, 09:33 AM
It would seem that BHO is on the verge of falling into the same predictable trap that we saw with W. The "surge" is on its way into Afghan towns and villages to root out the Taliban and Al Qaeda. While I'm certain the soldiers will find success in their mission, I still can't help but think that this is the same play we made post 09/11.

Obama also showed his hand by announcing recently that we will limit our engagement of the enemy while in populated areas in an effort to reduce collateral damage. This article discusses it further:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124571281804038963.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

I wonder where the enemy will decide to hide?

JLEW1818
7/3/2009, 10:42 AM
see that's the thing about being President.... All the potential presidents are like "oh, well I'll bring our troops home today!!! no reason for us to be there"

Then when a president actually takes office, and reads the reports that only the President gets...... they soon realize why we cant leave.

JMO

adoniijahsooner
7/3/2009, 10:50 AM
see that's the thing about being President.... All the potential presidents are like "oh, well I'll bring our troops home today!!! no reason for us to be there"

Then when a president actually takes office, and reads the reports that only the President gets...... they soon realize why we cant leave.

JMO

why can't we leave a country thats not the usa? If we were really badasses we would push n. korea's poop in; but there is no oil there, huh?

JLEW1818
7/3/2009, 10:58 AM
why can't we leave a country thats not the usa? If we were really badasses we would push n. korea's poop in; but there is no oil there, huh?

nukes and a communist govt

Harry Beanbag
7/3/2009, 11:09 AM
why can't we leave a country thats not the usa? If we were really badasses we would push n. korea's poop in; but there is no oil there, huh?

Yeah, the lack of oil is the only reason we haven't invaded North Korea. :rolleyes:

adoniijahsooner
7/3/2009, 11:49 AM
Give me the reason, will ya? We invaded iraq because of the wmd's. Now we're heading to afghanistan to look for Bin Laden; while on the 4th of July N.Korea is planning to fire missiles towards the states, as you chew a piece of bbq and and drink a cold one. There is no mystery what the Leader in lady frames is doing; but we'd rather chase shadows and...oil!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1193941/North-Korea-plan-missile-launch-Hawaii-Independence-Day.html

JLEW1818
7/3/2009, 11:50 AM
SO WHY IS OBAMA NOT MAKING US LEAVE?

should Obama bomb N. Korea??? I'm not really sure... but one thing I'm sure about is he is a *****... and he won't do ****.

Harry Beanbag
7/3/2009, 02:39 PM
Give me the reason, will ya? We invaded iraq because of the wmd's. Now we're heading to afghanistan to look for Bin Laden; while on the 4th of July N.Korea is planning to fire missiles towards the states, as you chew a piece of bbq and and drink a cold one. There is no mystery what the Leader in lady frames is doing; but we'd rather chase shadows and...oil!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1193941/North-Korea-plan-missile-launch-Hawaii-Independence-Day.html


Your location spells volumes about your worldview.

StoopTroup
7/3/2009, 09:23 PM
If we control the poppy fields...we control the World.

KABOOKIE
7/3/2009, 09:39 PM
Don't forget shadows! If we control shadow technology we'll rule baby!

Sooner_Bob
7/3/2009, 09:42 PM
Where's John Rambo when you need him?

Crucifax Autumn
7/3/2009, 10:03 PM
Who cares? He was fighting on the side of the mujahadeen in the 80s!

picasso
7/3/2009, 10:07 PM
oil is not a bad reason to do such a venture. ya know we're already in bad enough shape. Just think if Iran or others controlled more. Talk about sucking up to bad guys.

no war for oil? Where else you gonna get it dissenting dooshbag (rhetorical)?

adoniijahsooner
7/3/2009, 11:02 PM
oil is not a bad reason to do such a venture. ya know we're already in bad enough shape. Just think if Iran or others controlled more. Talk about sucking up to bad guys.

no war for oil? Where else you gonna get it dissenting dooshbag (rhetorical)?

How did you come to the conclusion that I am sucking up to the "bad guys"? It seems you believe that everyone should have the same opinion, thus doing away with individual thought and viewpoints; well you can argue with someone else about that, because I don't care how the majority feel about any given topic; especially if I feel differently. Still no one has given me a reason why we are heading to AFGN; people are just spouting insults and jokes in an attempt to be cute.

JohnnyMack
7/3/2009, 11:14 PM
no one has given me a reason why we are heading to AFGN; people are just spouting insults and jokes in an attempt to be cute.

http://forum.belmont.edu/cornwall/wtc2.gif

Unfinished business?

If you're so ignorant as to think that oil is a motivation to enter Afghanistan you should go buy a book or two, read them and then come back. There are few more inhospitable places on earth than the terrain of the territory of Afghanistan.

olevetonahill
7/3/2009, 11:18 PM
Well Played JM

MojoRisen
7/3/2009, 11:53 PM
Maybe Obama is saying they are safe in the cities as the big one is on the way??? That would be one way to coral them.

adoniijahsooner
7/4/2009, 12:18 AM
http://forum.belmont.edu/cornwall/wtc2.gif

Unfinished business?

If you're so ignorant as to think that oil is a motivation to enter Afghanistan you should go buy a book or two, read them and then come back. There are few more inhospitable places on earth than the terrain of the territory of Afghanistan.

What books are available that may help my understanding? Those pictures are the same ones that were used to go into Afgh soon after it happened; for some reason we left, but now we are deciding to go back in. Operation Enduring Freedom i believe it was called. We will never win a war where the enemy will gladly kill themselves in hopes of receiving paradise. Im not against war, I'm not against getting the bad guys, but Im just not sure that we know what were fighting, or we would have already won the victory. At least with the Iraqi war, there was a definite enemy and regime to destroy. We caught Saddam and his sons, and punished them all. But spending resources to catch someone who sits comfortably in his cave and makes videos mocking our government; well how do we catch someone like that? Really I would like to know, so please no smart *** answers and no warmongering propaganda.

olevetonahill
7/4/2009, 12:21 AM
What books are available that may help my understanding? Those pictures are the same ones that were used to go into Afgh soon after it happened; for some reason we left, but now we are deciding to go back in. Operation Enduring Freedom i believe it was called. We will never win a war where the enemy will gladly kill themselves in hopes of receiving paradise. Im not against war, I'm not against getting the bad guys, but Im just not sure that we know what were fighting, or we would have already won the victory. At least with the Iraqi war, there was a definite enemy and regime to destroy. We caught Saddam and his sons, and punished them all. But spending resources to catch someone who sits comfortably in his cave and makes videos mocking our government; well how do we catch someone like that? Really I would like to know, so please no smart *** answers and no warmongering propaganda.

I think Our troops will Disagree with ya here .:rolleyes:

Vaevictis
7/4/2009, 12:58 AM
We will never win a war where the enemy will gladly kill themselves in hopes of receiving paradise. Im not against war, I'm not against getting the bad guys, but Im just not sure that we know what were fighting, or we would have already won the victory.

We can win, you just have to treat it the way it needs to be treated.

(*) You exterminate the people who are diehards.
(*) You convert the profiteers by making it unprofitable to continue.
(*) And you change conditions so that the die-hards have a hard time evangelizing and creating new diehards.

It's easier said than done, but it's not impossible.

OU_Sooners75
7/4/2009, 01:00 AM
see that's the thing about being President.... All the potential presidents are like "oh, well I'll bring our troops home today!!! no reason for us to be there"

Then when a president actually takes office, and reads the reports that only the President gets...... they soon realize why we cant leave.

JMO


Just out of curiosity, when did Obama pledge to bring the troops home when talking about Afghanistan?

I know he did so with Iraq, but cannot recall him saying the same about Afghanistan.

And we all know it is harder to do so than it is to preach it.

Richard Nixon was the one that said he would bring home the troops from Vietnam...though it took him a couple of years, that included an escalation, but he was able to end the Vietnam war or at least get our boys home.

OU_Sooners75
7/4/2009, 01:06 AM
What books are available that may help my understanding? Those pictures are the same ones that were used to go into Afgh soon after it happened; for some reason we left, but now we are deciding to go back in. Operation Enduring Freedom i believe it was called. We will never win a war where the enemy will gladly kill themselves in hopes of receiving paradise. Im not against war, I'm not against getting the bad guys, but Im just not sure that we know what were fighting, or we would have already won the victory. At least with the Iraqi war, there was a definite enemy and regime to destroy. We caught Saddam and his sons, and punished them all. But spending resources to catch someone who sits comfortably in his cave and makes videos mocking our government; well how do we catch someone like that? Really I would like to know, so please no smart *** answers and no warmongering propaganda.


Call me what you will...but when exactly did we leave Aghanistan?
In other words, my Step Brother lied to us when he said that he is being deployed to Afghanistan for the second time?

You really need to shut the **** up and pay tention to what the hell is going on in the world before showing your ignorance on an issue!

adoniijahsooner
7/4/2009, 06:58 AM
You really need to shut the **** up

I made a mistake; we didnt leave, but why the harsh words? Please learn to speak without posturing and acting tough on the internet. My father was in the service as well and still suffers fluid leaks from his ears because of an explosion he was in. Arguments and hostile attacks have a way of swaying the conversation, and missing the whole point. North Korea is openly defying us, so what I am trying to do is get a reason why North Korea is less dangerous than the Taliban. I am through with this conversation, before I start attacking folks and cursing my fellow posters. Sooners75 you have a great 4th of July.

JohnnyMack
7/4/2009, 07:28 AM
We can win, you just have to treat it the way it needs to be treated.

(*) You exterminate the people who are diehards.
(*) You convert the profiteers by making it unprofitable to continue.
(*) And you change conditions so that the die-hards have a hard time evangelizing and creating new diehards.

It's easier said than done, but it's not impossible.

To me "winning" in the Afghanistan/Pakistan border region could have been done effectively years ago had we had the balls to do it.

"changing the conditions" in Afghanistan would be like getting the sun to spin the other way. Ask the USSR how their effort at changing the culture in that area went. Their effort was many times larger than anything we attempted and they still failed miserably.

Ever since Vietnam war has been played in the media, making winning very difficult. Not because of who we were fighting abroad, but because of the changing parameters of what is acceptable in war.

Obama's chicken**** decision to force our troops to avoid confrontation with the enemy in populated areas will endanger our troops and cost American lives.

JLEW1818
7/4/2009, 09:58 AM
Just out of curiosity, when did Obama pledge to bring the troops home when talking about Afghanistan?

I know he did so with Iraq, but cannot recall him saying the same about Afghanistan.

And we all know it is harder to do so than it is to preach it.

Richard Nixon was the one that said he would bring home the troops from Vietnam...though it took him a couple of years, that included an escalation, but he was able to end the Vietnam war or at least get our boys home.

i agree he didn't say anything about Afghanistan...... but he did talk about Iraq..... now he realizes we just can't "leave".

Frozen Sooner
7/4/2009, 10:10 AM
Just out of curiosity, when did Obama pledge to bring the troops home when talking about Afghanistan?


He didn't. In fact, IIRC, he discussed many times that he thought that Afghanistan was where we should be concentrating our efforts instead of Iraq.

StoopTroup
7/4/2009, 12:35 PM
I'm not trying to be cute.

I believe the Poppy Fields have something to do with why we're there. Same as Columbia and when we took the War on Drugs to South America....we're trying to control the flow of drug money in an attempt to keep the money from buying the Taliban the support they need to keep their twisted ideals going. What else do they have that the rest of the World wants to trade weapons for?

adoniijahsooner
7/5/2009, 11:03 AM
Time magazine article that answers a few of my questions. Says Obamas war is different than the last Afghan war. really informative


http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1908724,00.html

JohnnyMack
7/5/2009, 11:11 AM
Time magazine article that answers a few of my questions. Says Obamas war is different than the last Afghan war. really informative


http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1908724,00.html

W had resounding success early on in his campaign as well.

Harry Beanbag
7/5/2009, 11:26 AM
So did the Soviets.

JohnnyMack
7/5/2009, 11:52 AM
So did Alexander the Great.

Mixer!
7/5/2009, 03:00 PM
So did the British.


http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/3194/themanwhowouldbeking.jpg (http://img197.imageshack.us/i/themanwhowouldbeking.jpg/)

Veritas
7/5/2009, 03:30 PM
So did Emperor Palpatine.

Tulsa_Fireman
7/6/2009, 01:06 PM
So did Custer.

The Remnant
7/8/2009, 11:23 AM
Afghanistan doesn't even rise to the level of a third world country.

OklahomaTuba
7/8/2009, 12:00 PM
So does this mean that Obama was finally bale to admit the surge was an amazing success in Iraq, since we are now employing it in Afghanistan?? Probably not, since he doesn't seem to think much about the spread of liberty and democracy.

Either way, Petreus is the man. He worked a miracle in Iraq, and I think he can do the same in Afganistan. We are lucky to have him serving.

JohnnyMack
7/8/2009, 12:30 PM
So does this mean that Obama was finally bale to admit the surge was an amazing success in Iraq, since we are now employing it in Afghanistan?? Probably not, since he doesn't seem to think much about the spread of liberty and democracy.

Either way, Petreus is the man. He worked a miracle in Iraq, and I think he can do the same in Afganistan. We are lucky to have him serving.

You really think we can "win" in Afghanistan?

olevetonahill
7/8/2009, 01:12 PM
Jarheads f'd it up, looks like. Shoulda sent in the seasoned dog faced grunts ;)

:D

OklahomaTuba
7/8/2009, 03:39 PM
You really think we can "win" in Afghanistan?Sure. People said Iraq was a lost cause, and we turned that around. We can do them same in Afghanistan, just may take longer and require continued action to stabilize Pakistan.

The Remnant
7/8/2009, 03:42 PM
Islam and democracy don't mix.

JohnnyMack
7/8/2009, 03:55 PM
Sure. People said Iraq was a lost cause, and we turned that around. We can do them same in Afghanistan, just may take longer and require continued action to stabilize Pakistan.

I don't think Iraq has shown long term stability. Get back to me in 10 years.

The Soviets invested more time, money, resources and lives at creating something in Afghanistan and got ushered out with their tail between their legs. They had about four times as many soldiers as we did and weren't as interested in playing nice as we seem to be.

We could eliminate the threat posed by the insurgent/taliban/al qaida folks if we had the temerity. Problem is, we don't.

The Remnant
7/8/2009, 07:10 PM
Since my car doesn't run on wind power or solar panels, I am all for getting more oil.

Frozen Sooner
7/8/2009, 07:19 PM
Islam and democracy don't mix.

Quick, somebody tell the Turks!

Petro-Sooner
7/8/2009, 07:24 PM
Since my car doesn't run on wind power or solar panels, I am all for getting more oil. :texan:

ndpruitt03
7/8/2009, 08:18 PM
Islam and democracy don't mix.

Any fundamental religion and democracy don't really mix. That's why ours has a seperation of church and state.

JLEW1818
7/8/2009, 08:50 PM
agree.. and most Christians should agree with that, (me included)

The Remnant
7/11/2009, 07:54 PM
I appreciate your comments, ndpruitt03, however, could you clarify something for me. By religious fundamentalim do you include Christian fundamentalists. I am a Southern Baptist and belong to a large congregation. I can assure you that we all believe in our democracy, although I did not take a poll.

The Remnant
7/11/2009, 08:05 PM
Frozen Sooner you bring up a good point, however, the democracy in Turkey is precarious at best. In fact the LA Times called it a disintegrating democracy just last year. When given the right to vote in Gaza, the Palestinians elected Hamas, a terrorist organization. Islam is as much a political ideology as a religion. I think that was the point I was trying to make. Anyway, I appreciate your comments.