Hondouras Leadership Crisis

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Obama and Hillary side with Hugo Chavez and the Castros in defense of Honduran dictator not leaving, by Mary O'Grady of the Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124623220955866301.html

[Crucifax Autumn]

I'd like to hear the rationale behind this rather strange "alliance". I could understand if it was some argument of stability in the region, but I honestly can't see even a hint of that being the case. Seems to me to be a non-factor and something that should just be allowed to run its course and we should probably keep our nose out of other countries' court decisions and so on.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I'd like to hear the rationale behind this rather strange "alliance". I could understand if it was some argument of stability in the region, but I honestly can't see even a hint of that being the case. Seems to me to be a non-factor and something that should just be allowed to run its course and we should probably keep our nose out of other countries' court decisions and so on.Our Sexretary of State has openly backed a tyrant in defiance of his own country's constitution. This is a chilling lesson, not to be ignored or dismissed.

[AggieTool]

Treachery is afoot....:mad:

We must activate operation...."paranoid nutjob".:mad:


We will save America!:D

[Crucifax Autumn]

I'm actually partially confused by the entire thing...this constitutional court decision and aftermath was a "military coup" by most accounts to keep the "democratically elected tyrant" from having a second term!

Sounds like a good reason to not give a rat's nutz who is in charge...both sides of this argument are kinda crazy!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I'm actually partially confused by the entire thing...this constitutional court decision and aftermath was a "military coup" by most accounts to keep the "democratically elected tyrant" from having a second term!

Sounds like a good reason to not give a rat's nutz who is in charge...both sides of this argument are kinda crazy!As I understand the situation, there are apparently term limits in effect in Honduras, and the Court upheld the law, but the former leader wouldn't leave, before the military ushered him out.

Hugo Chavez attained his permanent leadership in Venezuela by dishonoring the law, and we all know the wonderful record of Fidel Castro. Our govt. is backing the illegal leader.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I understand that, but was he actually refusing to leave or just trying to take further steps to get rid of the law limiting him to one term...all I find by checking a variety of sources hoping for a balanced story is BS party hackery on both sides of our media.

Guess I need to go to BBC or something and see if I can wade through a different set of biased agendas than the ones we have here! lol

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I understand that, but was he actually refusing to leave or just trying to take further steps to get rid of the law limiting him to one termWouldn't either case be illegal, if his term ended and term limits were still in effect? You're not so used to lawbreaking here in the USA that the second option looks legal, are you?

[Crucifax Autumn]

No...That's not what I'm saying either. Of course either is wrong if he was out of office and all that. I'm in full agreement there. I'm just looking to see if there is even the slightest reason for the US to actually take his side on the issue. Is there some question as to whether the Military is going to turn power over to a newly elected government for example?

And yes...I'm just playing dumb for the sake of the conversation here...

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

No...That's not what I'm saying either. Of course either is wrong if he was out of office and all that. I'm in full agreement there. I'm just looking to see if there is even the slightest reason for the US to actually take his side on the issue. Is there some question as to whether the Military is going to turn power over to a newly elected government for example?

And yes...I'm just playing dumb for the sake of the conversation here...I presently know no more about it than I already stated.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Ok...I read up on this and I think our government's stance is a non-issue right now, but if they keep it up past January then your point is correct...otherwise I'm withholding judgment on this one.

The military actually arrested and deported him BEFORE the referendum was to occur and regardless his term was supposed to last until January.

If at that point he'd refused to consede power then he'd be totally wrong, but for now he was still in his term AND he was removed by a military coup, which we have generally ALWAYS opposed in central America by anyone but our own puppets under both parties.

I'll just bow out of this one unless someone points out something more sinister at work or has some info I didn't see on this.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

Here's a
BBC article. It says congress removed him because of his breaking laws and violating the constitution, but doesn't elaborate. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8123513.stm

[Crucifax Autumn]

I have to wonder if there's not something more to the statement in that article, not as in "something is missing from the quote" but as in the quote itself was written by a congress collectively (we know how that works here) and was in support of a replacement that is AT LEAST as socialist as Zelaya and who lost to him in the prior election.

MEanwhile on the Chavez front, he referred to "the Yankee Empire" in the last line of that article and I doubt he's talking baseball so no matter how socialistic our current administration is, they aren't exactly butt buddies with Chavez either.

I think we can all find MUCH better reasons to object to the current administration than this and many of those would be agreed upn by the right, the center and even some of the left as opposed to this which seeems to be a no-starter.

[TUSooner]

[T]he military was acting on a court order to defend the rule of law and the constitution, and that the Congress asserted itself for that purpose.
That's kinda the way I saw it. If so, our gubment really ought to STFU and leave it be.

[King Crimson]

That's kinda the way I saw it. If so, our gubment really ought to STFU and leave it be.

our track record in central america is not usually to sit out the dance....whether it's public knowledge or not.

[SoonerProphet]

Seriously, in this day and age there is no way we should support the removal of a democratically elected official at gunpoint. The WSJ is a frickin' joke if its editorial board support this. Isn't this the bastion of neoconservatism and a stalwart supporter of "democracy". Pffft, right only if it fits thier ideological viewpoints.

[OklahomaTuba]

What happened to not "meddling"???

[OklahomaTuba]

Seriously, in this day and age there is no way we should support the removal of a democratically elected official at gunpoint. The WSJ is a frickin' joke if its editorial board support this. Isn't this the bastion of neoconservatism and a stalwart supporter of "democracy". Pffft, right only if it fits thier ideological viewpoints.
Seems like it was done to preserve & protect their democracy instead of letting it become another leftist utopia like Cuba or Venezuela.

No wonder Chavez & Obama are mad.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/media/birdsofeather.jpg

[SoonerProphet]

Seems like it was done to preserve & protect their democracy instead of letting it become another leftist utopia like Cuba or Venezuela.

No wonder Chavez & Obama are mad.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/media/birdsofeather.jpg

Says who? You, the WSJ, the Honduran SC or military, or others who see leftista boogeymen. Dude was elected, was gonna have a referendum, a coup stopped that. Sounds like the only unconsitutional measures taken where those who sponsored the coup, unless of course the Honduran constitution has a coup clause.

[OklahomaTuba]

Says who?
El Congresso de la Repulica Honduras.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8123513.stm

[TUSooner]

Seriously, in this day and age there is no way we should support the removal of a democratically elected official at gunpoint. The WSJ is a frickin' joke if its editorial board support this. Isn't this the bastion of neoconservatism and a stalwart supporter of "democracy". Pffft, right only if it fits thier ideological viewpoints.

I guess that's the new Rupert Murdoch WSJ for you.
Having read a little more on the subject, it looks like Zelaya was not even close to just-about maybe succeeding in becoming a "dictator": He was opposed by the courts, the legislature, the military, and many of not most of the population. It thus seems like his removal was too harsh and too hasty, even if done with good intentions to save democracy from a "chavestic" power grab. Patience likely would have seen him fail, or at least seen him provide a better reason for tossing him out -- like if he refused to leave office at the end of his term. Although I see why the legislature and the military did what they did, they really should have waited to see things through legally, like with impeachment or just letting his term expire.

By the way, the parrot cartoon balloon is horse ****, worthy only of Tuba and Rush's Zombie Parrot Clone. But what the hell, I guess once you get your hate-on for the Prez, the facts just don't matter.

[TUSooner]

As I understand the situation, there are apparently term limits in effect in Honduras, and the Court upheld the law, but the former leader wouldn't leave, before the military ushered him out.

Hugo Chavez attained his permanent leadership in Venezuela by dishonoring the law, and we all know the wonderful record of Fidel Castro. Our govt. is backing the illegal leader.

Zelaya's term had not yet expired; that tricky little detail complicates things from a legal perspective.

[CatfishSooner]

who gives a shii?

[OklahomaTuba]

By the way, the parrot cartoon balloon is horse ****horse **** only in the sense that it says he was a dictator, which Hondouras has been proactive in getting rid of before it would get that bad. Dude was obviously a Chavez whanna be, (and yes, thats a bad thing).

Its not horse **** that he is in agreement with the communist thugs on this hemisphere.

I think its also telling how much The One seems angered by Honduras and Israel's internal issues, yet is so ambivalent when it comes to Iran's popular upraising against the #1 terrorist regime in the world.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Our Sexretary of State has openly backed a tyrant in defiance of his own country's constitution. This is a chilling lesson, not to be ignored or dismissed.
I'll bet you used this to refer to Condi Rice, didn't you?

Oh, wait...you didn't.

Carry on.

[Fraggle145]

By the way, most of Tuba's posts are horse ****, worthy only of Tuba and Rush's Zombie Parrot Clone. But what the hell, I guess once you get your hate-on for the Prez, the facts just don't matter.

Fixed.

[LosAngelesSooner]

I presently know no more about anything than what Rush Limbaugh tells me.Fixed.

[OklahomaTuba]

Fixed.
Damn, how does one become as original and clever as you fraggle??? ;)

[TUSooner]

horse **** only in the sense that it says he was a dictator, which Hondouras has been proactive in getting rid of before it would get that bad. Dude was obviously a Chavez whanna be, (and yes, thats a bad thing).

Its not horse **** that he is in agreement with the communist thugs on this hemisphere.

I think its also telling how much The One seems angered by Honduras and Israel's internal issues, yet is so ambivalent when it comes to Iran's popular upraising against the #1 terrorist regime in the world.

An elected president who is a commie-dictator-wannabe is an elected president and not a commie dictator, at least not yet. By your logic, we should preemptively kill, dethrone, remove, or imprison anybody with dangerous ideas. If we could have had the army oust every US President for wanting to disregard the Constitution, we'd probably have had to start with Jefferson over the La. Purchase.
I don't support Zelaya or chavezism; I acknowledge with the reasons the Honduran Congress had for acting, so I don't want to overdo my handwringing. Hey, they might even be legally correct under the Honduran Constitution. But just now I think they did it wrong and did not have to do it that way or at that time. I think they skipped a step between suspicion and proof. It's a matter of process. (I am a lawyer, after all.)
And oh yeah -- the illogical, dogma-fueled leap from the dicey Honduran situation to
"Obama loves commie dictators!" is the horse ****.

[OklahomaTuba]

And oh yeah -- the illogical, dogma-fueled leap from the dicey Honduran situation to "Obama loves commie dictators!" is the horse ****.

I dunno if he loves him some commie dictator or not, but he sure looks happy here:

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/03S2dbibiC99e/610x.jpg

I think this photo happen a couple of days after Chavez stole about $25 Million in assets from Williams Companies here in Tulsa.

[Fraggle145]

Damn, how does one become as original and clever as you fraggle??? ;)

Its tough. You should try it some time. It couldnt hurt. :D

[SoonerProphet]

An elected president who is a commie-dictator-wannabe is an elected president and not a commie dictator, at least not yet. By your logic, we should preemptively kill, dethrone, remove, or imprison anybody with dangerous ideas. If we could have had the army oust every US President for wanting to disregard the Constitution, we'd probably have had to start with Jefferson over the La. Purchase.
I don't support Zelaya or chavezism; I acknowledge with the reasons the Honduran Congress had for acting, so I don't want to overdo my handwringing. Hey, they might even be legally correct under the Honduran Constitution. But just now I think they did it wrong and did not have to do it that way or at that time. I think they skipped a step between suspicion and proof. It's a matter of process. (I am a lawyer, after all.)
And oh yeah -- the illogical, dogma-fueled leap from the dicey Honduran situation to
"Obama loves commie dictators!" is the horse ****.

In addition to these points I would like to add that it is illegal under US law to distburse aid to any country "whose elected head of government has been deposed by military coup or decree." The OAS has been very unified in their voice over the matter and has articles implace the suspend members for engaging in extra democratic behavior.

So not only is the issue illegal, it would be utterly foolish from a political standpoint to support this coup. I for one do not pine for the days of mustachioed strongmen with cigars...it made for terrible cinema. Hell, Guatemala is dangerously close to a coup too, support for the power grab in Honduras might just spark more instability in the region. I think we've had enough moronic destabilizing foreign policy the last few years.

http://www.nationalinterest.org/Article.aspx?id=20184

[Vaevictis]

I dunno if he loves him some commie dictator or not, but he sure looks happy here:

Yeah, whatever dude. For every one of these, I can show a picture of Bush snuggling up with Putin, Rumsfeld shaking hands with Hussein, or Churchill hanging out with Stalin.

Hanging out with people you vehemently disagree with is pretty much part and parcel with being a statesman.

[OklahomaTuba]

Yeah, whatever dude. For every one of these, I can show a picture of Bush snuggling up with Putin, Rumsfeld shaking hands with Hussein, or Churchill hanging out with Stalin.

Hanging out with people you vehemently disagree with is pretty much part and parcel with being a statesman.

Was Putin, Saddam or Stalin actually calling for aggression against the US in those situations or stealing the assets of American companies like Chavez has been?

Nope.

Fist-bump!

[Vaevictis]

Actually, yes.

Expropriation of foreign assets is common in Russia under Putin.

Stalin was only rolling over and annexing Poland despite agreements to the contrary; Britain was bound by treaty to protect Poland's sovereignty. What did Britain do? They sucked it the **** up because they had bigger fish to fry.

Saddam? Well, in that case you may be right. He was our guy until he wasn't.

[OklahomaTuba]

Actually, yes.

Expropriation of foreign assets is common in Russia under Putin.

Stalin was only rolling over and annexing Poland despite agreements to the contrary; Britain was bound by treaty to protect Poland's sovereignty. What did Britain do? They sucked it the **** up because they had bigger fish to fry.

Saddam? Well, in that case you may be right. He was our guy until he wasn't.

Yeah, after I wrote that I did forget about the forced nationalizaed schemes from Putin. I think the WW2 era is just a little different than now too. They weren't acting as aggressively as Uncle Hugo has been toward us.

[Vaevictis]

Heh, who the **** cares what Chavez's posture is? He's like a little dog: He barks a lot because it makes him seem fiercer than he really is.

Let him bark, and when he's done, get out of him what you can.

And if you think what Hugo does is more aggressive than what Putin and/or Stalin does/did, you're mistaken. Hugo's just more vocal about it.

[OklahomaTuba]

Heh, who the **** cares what Chavez's posture is? He's like a little dog: He barks a lot because it makes him seem fiercer than he really is.

Let him bark, and when he's done, get out of him what you can.

Well I care, for personal & professional reasons more than anything. I have a friend and co-worker down there that is my business rep near lake Maracaibo. (the big oil producing region down there that supplies a **** load of crude oil here)

A day doesn't go by when the "chavistas" aren't out there taking over a private company, then blacklisting the old owner and workers who won't join hugo's union. So maybe I am a little to close to the situation.

And given what a great place Honduras is (beautiful place to visit and good place to invest as well), I am happy to see them take back their country and stop the slide into the black hole of socialism that has griped venezuela, cuba, & bolivia as of late.

[Vaevictis]

Well, it sucks for your friends and associates, but our officials shake hands and make deals with people who do this and worse all the time. It's simple statecraft, and it's part of the job description.

[John Kochtoston]

An elected president who is a commie-dictator-wannabe is an elected president and not a commie dictator, at least not yet. By your logic, we should preemptively kill, dethrone, remove, or imprison anybody with dangerous ideas. If we could have had the army oust every US President for wanting to disregard the Constitution, we'd probably have had to start with Jefferson over the La. Purchase.
I don't support Zelaya or chavezism; I acknowledge with the reasons the Honduran Congress had for acting, so I don't want to overdo my handwringing. Hey, they might even be legally correct under the Honduran Constitution. But just now I think they did it wrong and did not have to do it that way or at that time. I think they skipped a step between suspicion and proof. It's a matter of process. (I am a lawyer, after all.)
And oh yeah -- the illogical, dogma-fueled leap from the dicey Honduran situation to
"Obama loves commie dictators!" is the horse ****.

This, BTW, is pretty much what our government is saying, so props to TU for the analysis. Not that Zeleya's a fantastic guy. In fact, our government is not really all that enamored of him. But, he was democratically elected, and his term is not yet up.

Say, for instance, the day after Obama won the election, Bush tried rally support behind a constitutional amendment allowing a third presidential term, and wanted to call new presidential elections following ratification of such an amendment. He'd have huge hurdles to overcome, and surely every lawyer in America registered as a Democrat (and every other one registered as a Republican) would begin a legal process to stop that.

Essentially, opponents of Zeleya did just that. And they won. Just as the opponents of Bush would likely do in their hypothetical court challenge.

That still wouldn't give Obama or the Democrats the right to call on the Army to forcibly remove Bush from office until his term had expired. That's what the opponents on Zeleya did, and the US (along with just about every other world government, BTW) called BS.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/06/30/politics/washingtonpost/main5125109.shtml

[OklahomaTuba]

If only Zeleya would have forged the vote like Iran did, then maybe Obama would leave them alone.

Lord help them if they start building "settlements".

[TUSooner]

Hugo was just tryin to do a brother handshake.

[OklahomaTuba]

I think a big ol bear hug would have been better personally.

[OklahomaTuba]

I think this article lays the situation out nicely, and it makes Obama look even worse.

Banana Democrats
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Monday, June 29, 2009 4:20 PM PT
Americas: During his campaign, President Obama made a big deal of criticizing leaders who are elected democratically but don't govern democratically. He's had a chance to show that it mattered in Honduras. He didn't.

That's the sorry story as Honduras' now ex-president, Mel Zelaya, last Thursday defied a Supreme Court ruling and tried to hold a "survey" to rewrite the constitution for his permanent re-election. It's the same blueprint for a rigged political system that's made former democracies like Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua and Ecuador into shells of free countries.

Zelaya's operatives did their dirt all the way through. First they got signatures to launch the "citizen's power" survey through threats — warning those who didn't sign that they'd be denied medical care and worse. Zelaya then had the ballots flown to Tegucigalpa on Venezuelan planes. After his move was declared illegal by the Supreme Court, he tried to do it anyway.

As a result of his brazen disregard for the law, Zelaya found himself escorted from office by the military Sunday morning, and into exile. Venezuela's Hugo Chavez and Cuba's Fidel Castro rushed to blame the U.S., calling it a "yanqui coup."

President Obama on Monday called the action "not legal," and claimed that Zelaya is still the legitimate president.

There was a coup all right, but it wasn't committed by the U.S. or the Honduran court. It was committed by Zelaya himself. He brazenly defied the law, and Hondurans overwhelmingly supported his removal (a pro-Zelaya rally Monday drew a mere 200 acolytes).

Yet the U.S. administration stood with Chavez and Castro, calling Zelaya's lawful removal "a coup." Obama called the action a "terrible precedent," and said Zelaya remains president.

In doing this, the U.S. condemned democrats who stood up to save their democracy, a move that should have been hailed as a historic turning of the tide against the false democracies of the region.

The U.S. response has been disgraceful. "We recognize Zelaya as the duly elected and constitutional president of Honduras. We see no other," a State Department official told reporters.

Worse, the U.S. now contemplates sanctions on the tiny drug-plagued, dirt-poor country of 7 million, threatening to halt its $200 million in U.S. aid, immigration accords and a free-trade treaty if it doesn't put the criminal Zelaya back into office.

Not even Nicaragua, a country the State Department said committed a truly fraudulent election, got that. Nor has murderous Iran gotten such punishment, even as it slaughters Iranian democrats in the streets. But tiny Honduras must be made to pay.
http://www.ibdeditorial.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=331168876783926

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

I guess that's the new Rupert Murdoch WSJ for you.
Having read a little more on the subject, it looks like Zelaya was not even close to just-about maybe succeeding in becoming a "dictator": He was opposed by the courts, the legislature, the military, and many of not most of the population. It thus seems like his removal was too harsh and too hasty, even if done with good intentions to save democracy from a "chavestic" power grab. Patience likely would have seen him fail, or at least seen him provide a better reason for tossing him out -- like if he refused to leave office at the end of his term. Although I see why the legislature and the military did what they did, they really should have waited to see things through legally, like with impeachment or just letting his term expire.

By the way, the parrot cartoon balloon is horse ****, worthy only of Tuba and Rush's Zombie Parrot Clone. But what the hell, I guess once you get your hate-on for the Prez, the facts just don't matter.Just a matter of time before you came to your usual defenses, to include the (yawn)accusations of those on the right being brainwashed. What makes you think you know the whole story? I sure don't claim to, but if Obama/Hillry are siding with the Castro brothers and Chavez, you might get a preliminary indication of the truth, haha!

[SoonerProphet]

I think this article lays the situation out nicely, and it makes Obama look even worse.

http://www.ibdeditorial.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=331168876783926

I like how this op/ed claims Zely's removal as "legal", yet does not back up his claim with any substantial proof. Let it play out, he can't run again and expressing such disdain for a democratically elected president and supporting the coup only emboldens the caudillos.

[TUSooner]

I guess that's the new Rupert Murdoch WSJ for you.
Having read a little more on the subject, it looks like Zelaya was not even close to just-about maybe succeeding in becoming a "dictator": He was opposed by the courts, the legislature, the military, and many of not most of the population. It thus seems like his removal was too harsh and too hasty, even if done with good intentions to save democracy from a "chavestic" power grab. Patience likely would have seen him fail, or at least seen him provide a better reason for tossing him out -- like if he refused to leave office at the end of his term. Although I see why the legislature and the military did what they did, they really should have waited to see things through legally, like with impeachment or just letting his term expire.

By the way, the parrot cartoon balloon is horse ****, worthy only of Tuba and Rush's Zombie Parrot Clone. But what the hell, I guess once you get your hate-on for the Prez, the facts just don't matter.


Just a matter of time before you came to your usual defenses, to include the (yawn)accusations of those on the right being brainwashed. What makes you think you know the whole story? I sure don't claim to, but if Obama/Hillry are siding with the Castro brothers and Chavez, you might get a preliminary indication of the truth, haha!

Oh dear, I knew there was a reason to keep you on my ignore list. I admit that I DO believe YOU are brain-washed. Definitely. Washed, bleached, put through the wringer, and hung on the line, without a doubt. (Of course, many many people I dearly love are the same way -- but I digress.)

Did I claim to know "the whole story"? pffft. no way

And what kind of snide substitute for an argument is this poor cripple: "if Obama/Hillry are siding with the Castro brothers and Chavez, you might get a preliminary indication of the truth" Sheeeeesh, they all probably like ice cream, too. WTF does that really prove about anything?

When somebody points out that I am wrong or misinformed, I admit it, whether I want to or not. (That's why I use this a lot: :O ) I try to keep an open mind because, when you think you know it all, that's when you can't learn anything else. You ought to consider that.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

When somebody points out that I am wrong or misinformed, I admit it, whether I want to or not. (That's why I use this a lot: :O ) I try to keep an open mind because, when you think you know it all, that's when you can't learn anything else. You ought to consider that.There you go again.

If Obama or the democrats in congress do something that is good for the country, PM me and let me know, or start a thread about it.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

There you go again.

If Obama or the democrats in congress do something that is good for the country, PM me and let me know, or start a thread about it.


There you go again.

If Rushbo or the republicans in congress do something that is good for the country, PM me and let me know, or start a thread about it.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

There you go again.

If Rushbo or the republicans in congress do something that is good for the country, PM me and let me know, or start a thread about it.Hey, you can answer the question about the democrats. It doesn't have to be TU.(You do realize that neither Rushbo nor the repubs in congress have any political power? Of course, you do)

[soonerscuba]

Weapon Systems Reform, what do I win?

[mikeelikee]

President 'Bammer says in response to the rioting over the injustice in Iran's elections that we shouldn't "meddle" in the affairs of other nations. Oh well, that was last week. :confused:

[jkjsooner]

President 'Bammer says in response to the rioting over the injustice in Iran's elections that we shouldn't "meddle" in the affairs of other nations. Oh well, that was last week. :confused:

Different situation. By "meddling" in the Iranian situation the administration would have risked doing much more harm to the resistance than good. Obama felt that getting involved pubicly would strengthen Ahmadinejad.

[AggieTool]

There you go again.

If Obama or the democrats in congress do something that is good for the country, PM me and let me know, or start a thread about it.

He's 'blastin teh poop outa dem Taliban mo-fos in Pakistan.:)

[mikeelikee]

Different situation. By "meddling" in the Iranian situation the administration would have risked doing much more harm to the resistance than good. Obama felt that getting involved pubicly would strengthen Ahmadinejad.

Taking your logic one step further then, by meddling with Israel as it wrestles with Iran's surrogate (Hamas) in Palestine, is that not strengthening Ahmadinejad?

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

Hey, you can answer the question about the democrats. It doesn't have to be TU.(You do realize that neither Rushbo nor the repubs in congress have any political power? Of course, you do)

You are totally right, I can't believe i never saw it until now. I mean your argument would have holes if the Republicans never had any power whatsoever. I mean everyone knows their wasn't a Republican President from 2000 to 2008 and God knows the The Republicans didn't control the Legislative branch from from 1996 to 2006. I mean I wish in retrospect the Republicans had been in charge because God knows that Democrat President Bush and those Democrats in the Senate like Tom Delay sure didn't do anything to fix any problems that have arisen!!!!

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

You are totally right, I can't believe i never saw it until now. I mean your argument would have holes if the Republicans never had any power whatsoever. I mean everyone knows their wasn't a Republican President from 2000 to 2008 and God knows the The Republicans didn't control the Legislative branch from from 1996 to 2006. I mean I wish in retrospect the Republicans had been in charge because God knows that Democrat President Bush and those Democrats in the Senate like Tom Delay sure didn't do anything to fix any problems that have arisen!!!!Haha, Bush was more dem than republican with domestic policy, and his social spending. Enough congressional repubs backed him in that nonsense to cause real and electoral problems. The republicans in congress behaved as they should have, for the most part, from the time they gained majority in '94 until after Bush won the presidency. You SHOULD know that, but youre talking as if you don't.

Now, what has either the democrats in congress done right since they got a majority in '06 through now, or what has Supreme Leader done since his coronation back in January?

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

What has any party done right since the Civil Rights acts? Pretty much nothing I can think of off hand. We are a country being run by a bunch of old rich white guys who for the most part haven't had to earn anything in their lives. They legislate without the slightest clue as to what they are doing and ultimately that is the "voters and non voters" fault

[TUSooner]

There you go again...
What smashing originality! Stick to your Rush-daddy; you're not good enough to steal from Ronnie.

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

What smashing originality! Stick to your Rush-daddy; you're not good enough to steal from Ronnie.I may not be a great president, like Reagan, but I don't mind quoting him when apropo.

[OklahomaTuba]

We are a country being run by a bunch of old rich white guys who for the most part haven't had to earn anything in their lives.you did notice the current President is black (at least half of him is), right???

[OklahomaTuba]

I like how this op/ed claims Zely's removal as "legal", yet does not back up his claim with any substantial proof.
Obviously the congress, courts & military of Honduras thought it was legal.

I wonder how legal Zely's drug running connections will turn out to be???

I think Krauthammer has a nice take on it last night:


"Look, a rule of thumb here is whenever you find yourself on the side of Hugo Chavez, Daniel Ortega, and the Castro twins, you ought to reexamine your assumptions."

As usual, Krauthammer pretty much sums up our worshipful leader and his current pattern of siding with authoritarianism.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

What is the ethnic makeup of the Senate?


97 are Caucasian, 3 are Hispanic, 1 is an African American, and 2 are Asian and Pacific Islander

[OklahomaTuba]

This whole saga reminds of the classic quote by Jefferson...

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure.

[OklahomaTuba]

What is the ethnic makeup of the Senate?


97 are Caucasian, 3 are Hispanic, 1 is an African American, and 2 are Asian and Pacific Islander
Ok, so what is the ethnic makeup of the folks that voted for them then???

Same difference really. And yeah, the President is still half black last I checked.

[Gandalf_The_Grey]

We will never know because the Republicans are fighting the census ;)

[OklahomaTuba]

We will never know because the Republicans are fighting the census ;)

Well I, for one, will be more than happy to tell the ACORN thug standing at my door collecting my families personal information everything they need to know.

Anything that helps to make their voting fraud & intimidation campaign more effective for the next election is OK by me! ;)

[SoonerProphet]

Obviously the congress, courts & military of Honduras thought it was legal.

I wonder how legal Zely's drug running connections will turn out to be???

I think Krauthammer has a nice take on it last night:



As usual, Krauthammer pretty much sums up our worshipful leader and his current pattern of siding with authoritarianism.

If it was legal, then why not pursue lawful means to remove him from power? Why has there been clamp on the media? If it walks and talks like a duck...well, just sayin.

The drug connection? It's ****in' latin america first of all and I don't think it has been proven. It all smells rather stinky, but hey politics is just legal gangsterism anyways. Yes, I am sure the new guys are as pure as the driven snow, like that thug prez of Georgia you are fond of.

You don't like this Zelaya cat cause that is what Krauthammer et. al have told you to do. His point is as retarded as the rest of the neocon blowhards mentioned in this thread. I didn't read it cause it is the same bs he has been lying about for years, but I am sure he makes a strong legal case for his removal. I am sure it is not the same old, "look, Obama is in league with Chavez, the flying Castro brothers, Morales, blah, blah..." bit. Does he mention that the rest of the world is saying the same thing? Thought not...Krauthammer...please.

[Pricetag]

As usual, Krauthammer pretty much sums up our worshipful leader and his current pattern of siding with authoritarianism.
Damn, first RLIMC quotes Reagan, and now Tuba is quoting Han Solo.

[King Crimson]

I agree with Prophet. Krauthammer is a functionary and the irony of a conservative type of guy (posting on this board) being against and sanctimonious about "authoritarianism" in Latin American politics is pretty funny given the US track record in the region. CIA sponsored coups, etc.

[OklahomaTuba]

You don't like this Zelaya cat cause that is what Krauthammer et. al have told you to do. His point is as retarded as the rest of the neocon blowhards mentioned in this thread.

Only retarded because Krauthammer, IBD and WSJ calls The One out for siding with Authoritartin Socialist Dictators against the wishes of the people of Honduras.

I actually remember a time, in my lifetime even, when liberals were actually FOR human rights, justice and liberty.

Obviously those days are long gone.

[StoopTroup]

Only retarded because Krauthammer, IBD and WSJ calls The One out for siding with Authoritartin Socialist Dictators against the wishes of the people of Honduras.

I actually remember a time, in my lifetime even, when liberals were actually FOR human rights, justice and liberty and the Republicans were looking to the future to make it even better.

Obviously those days are long gone.

fixed.

YWIA

[OklahomaTuba]

http://www.weaselzippers.net/.a/6a00e008c6b4e588340115719a4951970b-800wi


Manuel Zelaya, who was arrested and forced into exile Sunday, addressed the U.N. General Assembly after the unanimous vote on the resolution sponsored in part by Bolivia, Mexico, Venezuela and the United States.

Awesome. Good to know we have friends at the UN!!

[King Crimson]

flag and the guy in the fore is a total photoshop.

again, the idea of Reagan acolytes pushing for actual democratic and populist movements with no shortage of sanctimony in Central America...is pretty funny.

[OklahomaTuba]

flag and the guy in the fore is a total photoshop.
I know, the truth hurts sometimes. ;)