PDA

View Full Version : How well will we adjust to our new Democrat Overlords?



RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
6/25/2009, 02:42 PM
I'm thinking there could be some bumps in the road...

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
6/25/2009, 08:47 PM
Howdy, again!

Sooner_Havok
6/25/2009, 08:50 PM
Same way the Democrats adjusted to their Republican overlords I suspect.

Jerk
6/25/2009, 08:50 PM
Howdy, again!

The same cocksucking mother****ers have exempted themselves from their own ****ing healthcare plan.


Obama said last night "I will allow you to see your own doctor"

Hey, obama, **** you, **********, I will see my doctor whether you like it or not, you communist pole smoking **** stick.

**** all of them. If North Korea launched a nuke and it hit DC, it would be the best thing that ever happened to us, providing all of those **********s were there within the blast zone.

I have had it. The system is going to collapse. I can't tell you what's on the other side.

JLEW1818
6/25/2009, 08:52 PM
careful jerk... that's illegal

Jerk
6/25/2009, 08:54 PM
Same way the Democrats adjusted to their Republican overlords I suspect.


Yeah, because Republicans jammed a totally different way of life down everyone's throats.

Obama can take his healthcare plan, grab it with both hands, and shove it up his half black ***.

Jerk
6/25/2009, 08:55 PM
careful jerk... that's illegal

I didn't advocate anything.

Illegal would be to say "I am going to kill BO"

JLEW1818
6/25/2009, 09:00 PM
k....

yermom
6/25/2009, 09:01 PM
Yeah, because Republicans jammed a totally different way of life down everyone's throats.

Obama can take his healthcare plan, grab it with both hands, and shove it up his half black ***.

so what is so awful about it? i guess i haven't been paying attention

Jerk
6/25/2009, 09:03 PM
so what is so awful about it? i guess i haven't been paying attention


If the politicians have exempted themselves from it, that speaks volumes about how great it is.

Jerk
6/25/2009, 09:12 PM
careful jerk... that's illegal


Wishful thinking and actual threats are two different things.

We still have freedom of...you know...dreaming?

Besides, last I checked, I'm **** out of nukes.

JohnnyMack
6/25/2009, 09:51 PM
The Right has (predictibly) fallen in step with the notion that everything bad that has happened in this country has done so in the last 6 months. You partisan hacks are really tiresome.

Turd_Ferguson
6/25/2009, 09:55 PM
The Right has (predictibly) fallen in step with the notion that everything bad that has happened in this country has done so in the last 6 months. You partisan hacks are really tiresome.Your post are really tiresome.

Curly Bill
6/25/2009, 09:58 PM
The Right has (predictibly) fallen in step with the notion that everything bad that has happened in this country has done so in the last 6 months.

Hummmm....I didn't see this mentioned anywhere in this thread...:confused:

I mean besides by you.

JohnnyMack
6/25/2009, 10:17 PM
Hummmm....I didn't see this mentioned anywhere in this thread...:confused:

I mean besides by you.

More of a general assessment I should say. I'm listening to Rush this afternoon and I don't know how people take his rants seriously. I mean surely most people get that he's just for entertainment I hope. The pictures he paints are so obnoxiously off-base it's sick. Have you listened to him lately? The way he's attacking the bankruptcy of GM and laying every single bit of the blame for that company's failures at the feet of Obama is the kind of thing I'm talking about. His divisive, partisan rhetoric is so offensive.

I got XM for the car recently and I think both sides are equally guilty of doing it. I guess it's what gets peoples attention and gets subscribers. I'm to the point where I listen to old time radio classics most of the time. :D

Curly Bill
6/25/2009, 10:24 PM
More of a general assessment I should say. I'm listening to Rush this afternoon and I don't know how people take his rants seriously. I mean surely most people get that he's just for entertainment I hope. The pictures he paints are so obnoxiously off-base it's sick. Have you listened to him lately? The way he's attacking the bankruptcy of GM and laying every single bit of the blame for that company's failures at the feet of Obama is the kind of thing I'm talking about. His divisive, partisan rhetoric is so offensive.

I got XM for the car recently and I think both sides are equally guilty of doing it. I guess it's what gets peoples attention and gets subscribers. I'm to the point where I listen to old time radio classics most of the time. :D

I'm just not seeing the defending of the Bush administration that some peeps on the left side here keep throwing at us more conservative posters. I think most of us conservative types admit that the Bush admin. was pretty much FAIL. Maybe the tele/radio pundits are doing some of that, I don't watch/listen enough to know for sure.

Along those lines I'm also not seeing how bashing the Bushies is a suitable defense for some of the things Obama has done. I mean if the lefties think Bushy was so bad, how is saying "well, Bush did it too" is a good defense for their guy. If anything I'd want to distance my guy as far from Bushy as possible.

Crucifax Autumn
6/25/2009, 10:43 PM
I think they are all mentally challenged, power-hungry, nut jobs.

KC//CRIMSON
6/25/2009, 10:46 PM
I see someone has fallen off their meds again.....classic.

yermom
6/25/2009, 10:50 PM
If the politicians have exempted themselves from it, that speaks volumes about how great it is.

but if this plan is socialist and insanely expensive, how is less people in it a bad thing?

i mean really, how is this going to affect my daily life?

Turd_Ferguson
6/25/2009, 10:53 PM
but if this plan is socialist and insanely expensive, how is less people in it a bad thing?

i mean really, how is this going to affect my daily life?Who knows, but it will greatly affect your pay check.

yermom
6/25/2009, 10:57 PM
is it? no one seems to be able to quantify that with the sky falling on them

SCOUT
6/25/2009, 10:57 PM
but if this plan is socialist and insanely expensive, how is less people in it a bad thing?

i mean really, how is this going to affect my daily life?

Because, an inefficiently run plan is more costly despite the number of people included. Increasing the scope of a bad idea does not make it better. See Medicare and Medicaid for examples of government run medical plans that are not all that efficient.

It is going to affect your daily life because at some point you, or someone in your family, is going to need medical care. I am not talking about a sinus infection either. It is going to happen to all of us at some point so it is something everyone should care about. That is not even mentioning the general affect healthcare can, and does, have on the economy as a whole.

I am not saying that our current healthcare system is perfect, far from it. I just believe that more government involvement will result in higher costs and lower quality. I base that belief on my 38 years of life experience and hundreds of years of history.

SCOUT
6/25/2009, 11:01 PM
I don't think the sky is falling. I believe that we have a serious problem with our healthcare and health insurance systems. I just think that a government answer will be too cumbersome to be successful.

To put it another way, the government runs things based on the lowest common denominator. I recognize why, because the one person with X issue and Y circumstance will sue because they were treated differently. However, that doesn't bode well for a system as massive and diverse as healthcare and health insurance.

Turd_Ferguson
6/25/2009, 11:01 PM
Because, an inefficiently run plan is more costly despite the number of people included. Increasing the scope of a bad idea does not make it better. See Medicare and Medicaid for examples of government run medical plans that are not all that efficient.

It is going to affect your daily life because at some point you, or someone in your family, is going to need medical care. I am not talking about a sinus infection either. It is going to happen to all of us at some point so it is something everyone should care about. That is not even mentioning the general affect healthcare can, and does, have on the economy as a whole.

I am not saying that our current healthcare system is perfect, far from it. I just believe that more government involvement will result in higher costs and lower quality. I base that belief on my 38 years of life experience and hundreds of years of history.You had me at "Inefficiently". I love you man.

tommieharris91
6/25/2009, 11:02 PM
More of a general assessment I should say. I'm listening to Rush this afternoon and I don't know how people take his rants seriously. I mean surely most people get that he's just for entertainment I hope.


This message is hidden because RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone! is in your gang of ignore.
No, not everyone.

yermom
6/25/2009, 11:30 PM
Because, an inefficiently run plan is more costly despite the number of people included. Increasing the scope of a bad idea does not make it better. See Medicare and Medicaid for examples of government run medical plans that are not all that efficient.

It is going to affect your daily life because at some point you, or someone in your family, is going to need medical care. I am not talking about a sinus infection either. It is going to happen to all of us at some point so it is something everyone should care about. That is not even mentioning the general affect healthcare can, and does, have on the economy as a whole.

I am not saying that our current healthcare system is perfect, far from it. I just believe that more government involvement will result in higher costs and lower quality. I base that belief on my 38 years of life experience and hundreds of years of history.

i'm pretty sure that if me or someone in my family needs extensive medical care as it is i'm kinda ****ed, insurance or not. i'm pretty sure most people are.

this has been brewing for years. burying it for 15 years hasn't really helped anything

Scott D
6/25/2009, 11:37 PM
Because, an inefficiently run plan is more costly despite the number of people included. Increasing the scope of a bad idea does not make it better. See Medicare and Medicaid for examples of government run medical plans that are not all that efficient.

It is going to affect your daily life because at some point you, or someone in your family, is going to need medical care. I am not talking about a sinus infection either. It is going to happen to all of us at some point so it is something everyone should care about. That is not even mentioning the general affect healthcare can, and does, have on the economy as a whole.

I am not saying that our current healthcare system is perfect, far from it. I just believe that more government involvement will result in higher costs and lower quality. I base that belief on my 38 years of life experience and hundreds of years of history.

I think it's safe to say that the public should wonder which group took lessons in inefficiency from the other..the government or health insurance companies.

SCOUT
6/25/2009, 11:47 PM
i'm pretty sure that if me or someone in my family needs extensive medical care as it is i'm kinda ****ed, insurance or not. i'm pretty sure most people are.

this has been brewing for years. burying it for 15 years hasn't really helped anything

If you have health insurance now, you likely have an out of pocket maximum. If you don't you can get major medical coverage for a relatively low cost. Oh, and you should stop paying for the insurance you do have.

I would disagree that most people are in that boat. Most people who have insurance have an out of pocket maximum that is in the $3,000 to $10,000 range.

SCOUT
6/25/2009, 11:51 PM
I think it's safe to say that the public should wonder which group took lessons in inefficiency from the other..the government or health insurance companies.

I would tend to disagree. The government wins this comparison hands down, IMO. Health insurance companies have incredibly detailed analysis to provide the lowest prices while turning a profit. The government spends money. End of comparison.

Now, before my last two posts get me labeled as an insurance company shill, I should clarify my perspective. I am the person who is responsible for selecting health care benefits for my company. I have seen the cause and effect in action.

The issue is less with health insurance and more with healthcare costs. One of the main drivers of those costs is...the government run programs.

yermom
6/25/2009, 11:59 PM
i don't know what mine is, but i can tell you i'm in pretty bad shape if i need to come up with that much $$$, especially if i'm not working

yermom
6/26/2009, 12:06 AM
did anyone actually watch the dog and pony show?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=7922187&page=1

SCOUT
6/26/2009, 12:18 AM
i don't know what mine is, but i can tell you i'm in pretty bad shape if i need to come up with that much $$$, especially if i'm not working

I think you are missing the obvious fact that $10,000 out of pocket maximum is a lot less than a $1,000,000 medical bill. So while 10 grand is pretty bad shape, a million is over the top, working or not.

yermom
6/26/2009, 12:19 AM
it's all just numbers if i'm not going to pay it anyway

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
6/26/2009, 12:21 AM
More of a general assessment I should say. I'm listening to Rush this afternoon and I don't know how people take his rants seriously. I mean surely most people get that he's just for entertainment I hope. The pictures he paints are so obnoxiously off-base it's sick. Have you listened to him lately? The way he's attacking the bankruptcy of GM and laying every single bit of the blame for that company's failures at the feet of Obama is the kind of thing I'm talking about. His divisive, partisan rhetoric is so offensive.

:DYou hear totally different things when(as if) you listen to Rush than anybody I know of, including myself. If you haven't yet, get yerself a nice govt. job, maybe with ACORN, and you can be above the pain the rest of the economy will experience, Johnny. Could be that's what I'll do...

SCOUT
6/26/2009, 12:21 AM
did anyone actually watch the dog and pony show?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=7922187&page=1

I watched the highlights and read the reports. It is standard political BS. For example, can you keep your same Dr. and health plan? YES YOU CAN....****just keep in mind that it will no longer be tax deductible premiums so your cost will go up 25%...***** But you can surely keep your Dr.

If BO would stick to ideas like his COBRA subsidy, I would be on board. It is the nature of his "change" that I have a problem with.

SCOUT
6/26/2009, 12:23 AM
it's all just numbers if i'm not going to pay it anyway

I am sorry to hear that you look at your healthcare costs as someone else's problem.

yermom
6/26/2009, 12:32 AM
I am sorry to hear that you look at your healthcare costs as someone else's problem.

you can't squeeze blood from a turnip

if i owed a $1,000,000 for anything, most likely i'm not paying it

SCOUT
6/26/2009, 12:34 AM
you can't squeeze blood from a turnip

if i owed a $1,000,000 for anything, most likely i'm not paying it

True, but you can take steps to prepare and prevent that type of insurmountable cost. Insurance, for example.

Turd_Ferguson
6/26/2009, 12:36 AM
you can't squeeze blood from a turnip
No, but the squeez'n can damn near kill ya.

LosAngelesSooner
6/26/2009, 12:36 AM
Howdy, again!Six hours and forty five minutes of everyone on here ignoring this sh!t sandwich of a thread and then you guys have to give him attention after he (as per his usual form) bumps his own turd burger of a thread?

Why didn't you just let this obvious stinker die the death it deserved...and almost had?

Curly Bill
6/26/2009, 12:38 AM
Six hours and forty five minutes of everyone on here ignoring this sh!t sandwich of a thread and then you guys have to give him attention after he (as per his usual form) bumps his own turd burger of a thread?

Why didn't you just let this obvious stinker die the death it deserved...and almost had?

Cause they wanted to keep it alive until you could chime in! ;) :P :D

SCOUT
6/26/2009, 12:39 AM
Six hours and forty five minutes of everyone on here ignoring this sh!t sandwich of a thread and then you guys have to give him attention after he (as per his usual form) bumps his own turd burger of a thread?

Why didn't you just let this obvious stinker die the death it deserved...and almost had?

Because I felt that the topic was worth discussing. I don't get caught up in who started the thread.

LosAngelesSooner
6/26/2009, 12:39 AM
The same cocksucking mother****ers have exempted themselves from their own ****ing healthcare plan.


Obama said last night "I will allow you to see your own doctor"

Hey, obama, **** you, **********, I will see my doctor whether you like it or not, you communist pole smoking **** stick.

**** all of them. If North Korea launched a nuke and it hit DC, it would be the best thing that ever happened to us, providing all of those **********s were there within the blast zone.

I have had it. The system is going to collapse. I can't tell you what's on the other side.


Yeah, because Republicans jammed a totally different way of life down everyone's throats.

Obama can take his healthcare plan, grab it with both hands, and shove it up his half black ***.


I didn't advocate anything.

Illegal would be to say "I am going to kill BO"


If the politicians have exempted themselves from it, that speaks volumes about how great it is.


Wishful thinking and actual threats are two different things.

We still have freedom of...you know...dreaming?

Besides, last I checked, I'm **** out of nukes.Been a while since we've had a full on meltdown followed by a baneing.

:pop:

yermom
6/26/2009, 12:41 AM
so i pay $$$ to make it my insurance company's problem

it all just seems like conjecture on nothing but hatred from Obama that you guys are operating on in assuming that this is going to suck. no hard facts, just that "Obama is lying" or something

LosAngelesSooner
6/26/2009, 12:44 AM
Because I felt that the topic was worth discussing. I don't get caught up in who started the thread.
So...the topic was National Healthcare?

I thought it was "Our New Democrat Overlords!!!"
fearhatescarefearhatescarefearhatescare

:rolleyes:

LosAngelesSooner
6/26/2009, 12:44 AM
Cause they wanted to keep it alive until you could chime in! ;) :P :DOkay. I chimed in.

Let's kill it. :D

SCOUT
6/26/2009, 12:47 AM
so i pay $$$ to make it my insurance company's problem

it all just seems like conjecture on nothing but hatred from Obama that you guys are operating on in assuming that this is going to suck. no hard facts, just that "Obama is lying" or something

I have tried to make a point of not discussing Obama at all. In fact, I completely agree with his COBRA insurance subsidy and have said so on this board.

As far as the insurance company goes, you pay money over time so that when, and if, that huge expense occurs you are covered. The pool of people help blend the risk for the insurance company thus the lower rates for larger companies. My contention is, and has always been, that government doesn't retain this economy of scale due it is nature. That nature is what I was describing in my previous posts.

SCOUT
6/26/2009, 12:48 AM
So...the topic was National Healthcare?

I thought it was "Our New Democrat Overlords!!!"
fearhatescarefearhatescarefearhatescare

:rolleyes:

Yes, that was the topic that developed. You must be confusing that with the title of the thread.

:rolleyes:

Curly Bill
6/26/2009, 12:49 AM
Okay. I chimed in.

Let's kill it. :D

I'm all for that. Other than taking an occasionl jab at someone, like I did with you, I've learned it's pretty much best to stay out of the political threads.

It took me awhile but I finally learned my lesson. :D

LosAngelesSooner
6/26/2009, 12:59 AM
Yes, that was the topic that developed. You must be confusing that with the title of the thread.

:rolleyes:
So let's start a new thread titled: A civil discussion of the pros and cons of Government Run Health Care in the U.S.

instead of: OBAMA IS EVIL MUSLIM NON-AMERICAN CONTROL OVERLORD OUR HEALTH CARE RUIN GREATEST NATION ON PLANET EARTH IN THE HISTORY OF HISTORY!!!!!1111!!!!111!!!!1!!OMFG!!!!!!!!

It might have more of a life and more participants who care to contribute. Just a thought. :cool:

LosAngelesSooner
6/26/2009, 01:00 AM
I'm all for that. Other than taking an occasionl jab at someone, like I did with you, I've learned it's pretty much best to stay out of the political threads.

It took me awhile but I finally learned my lesson. :DI figured if I kept smacking you down with my incomparable wit and intelligence that you'd EVENTUALLY learn your lesson. ;)

:D:D:D:D

Curly Bill
6/26/2009, 01:03 AM
I figured if I kept s*Mack*ing you down with my incomparable wit and intelligence that you'd EVENTUALLY learn your lesson. ;)

:D:D:D:D

Yep, that's sure nuff what did it. :rolleyes:

...or was it more like I got tired of preaching the truth to you evil lefties, and became frustrated that you wouldn't accept that truth? ;)

SCOUT
6/26/2009, 01:06 AM
So let's start a new thread titled: A civil discussion of the pros and cons of Government Run Health Care in the U.S.

instead of: OBAMA IS EVIL MUSLIM NON-AMERICAN CONTROL OVERLORD OUR HEALTH CARE RUIN GREATEST NATION ON PLANET EARTH IN THE HISTORY OF HISTORY!!!!!1111!!!!111!!!!1!!OMFG!!!!!!!!

It might have more of a life and more participants who care to contribute. Just a thought. :cool:

Wow. That is quite an extrapolation of the actual title. Not to mention the fact that I didn't start the thread. I commented on posts that I thought were worthwhile. Should I check with you first in the future?

LosAngelesSooner
6/26/2009, 01:13 AM
Wow. That is quite an extrapolation of the actual title. Not to mention the fact that I didn't start the thread. I commented on posts that I thought were worthwhile. Should I check with you first in the future?Jeeeeeez...Touchy Turtle! LOL

LosAngelesSooner
6/26/2009, 01:14 AM
Yep, that's sure nuff what did it. :rolleyes:

...or was it more like I got tired of preaching the truth to you evil lefties, and became frustrated that you wouldn't accept that truth? ;)
Hey! Who you callin' a "Lefty?!" :P

Curly Bill
6/26/2009, 01:17 AM
Hey! Who you callin' a "Lefty?!" :P

I just meant that you lived on the left coast! ;)

SCOUT
6/26/2009, 01:20 AM
Jeeeeeez...Touchy Turtle! LOL

Not at all. You tried to mock my involvement in a thread you disagreed with. I pointed out the absurdity in your comment. Nothing more.

It is funny though.

Fraggle145
6/26/2009, 01:36 AM
I guess my question is why does healthcare have to be so expensive in the first place?

(I mean besides the obvious... There isnt any money in the cure, only in treatment - especially long-term treatment)

Crucifax Autumn
6/26/2009, 02:18 AM
I guess my question is why does healthcare have to be so expensive in the first place?

(I mean besides the obvious... There isnt any money in the cure, only in treatment - especially long-term treatment)


This

My wife is extremely ill. She has hydrocephalus, most likely uterine cancer, and a few other related issues and the friggin' doctors just want to keep shoving pain pills down her throat and running more tests and putting off any official diagnosis.

She did get a shunt last year after years of tests and so on, but now it is obviously malfunctioning and they'd rather keep running tests, collecting insurance money, and prescribing more meds and ****.

LosAngelesSooner
6/26/2009, 04:30 AM
Not at all. You tried to mock my involvement in a thread you disagreed with. I pointed out the absurdity in your comment. Nothing more.

It is funny though.
Please explain to me the lack of "absurdity" in a thread started by RLiMC entitled "How well will we adjust to our new Democrat Overlords?" where the initial post was simply "I'm thinking there could be some bumps in the road..." and the second post, by the same guy after the thread was ignored by ALL of the South Oval, was "Howdy, again!"

There was no reference to health care at ALL in this thread until YOU guys brought it in. It could have just as easily become a thread about the choices in fashion by our "Democrat Overlords." Or how to build a better B.L.T. (a better topic, btw)

Just because you tried to add vitamins to this turd sandwich doesn't make it any less of a TURD SANDWICH.

No absurdity in my posts in this thread at all.

SoonerJack
6/26/2009, 07:57 AM
The Right has (predictibly) fallen in step with the notion that everything bad that has happened in this country has done so in the last 6 months. You partisan hacks are really tiresome.
:D

Bourbon St Sooner
6/26/2009, 09:22 AM
it's all just numbers if i'm not going to pay it anyway

Did you ever hear of the economic axiom that there's no such thing as a free lunch?

Somebody's going to pay for and, if you have a job, it's likely going to be you.

yermom
6/26/2009, 10:30 AM
i'm not talking about me in particular

when someone needs $1,000,000 in healthcare, what choice do they have? why does it cost $1,000,000 in the first place? if someone can't pay, should they just let them die?

i see 3 options there. a) the patient pays the bill b) an insurance company pays the bill c) the tax payers/hospital take in in the shorts

the vast majority of the time it's not Option A for something major. so it could be a billion dollars and it doesn't change how it affects someone, really

that's part of the problem. no one really pays attention anymore to how much anything costs in the process since someone else is footing the bill. all that matters is the co-pay, and deductible and such. so they can milk the insurance companies and the people that do pay

pardon me if i don't weep for changes in that system

and i still don't know how much less my paychecks are going to be. am i going to be eating Ramen?

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
6/26/2009, 11:04 AM
Can Barney Frank handle the medical industry as well as he does the mortgage industry? Gosh, who knows?

yermom
6/26/2009, 11:09 AM
do you have anything to bring to the discussion other than FUD?

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
6/26/2009, 11:12 AM
do you have anything to bring to the discussion other than FUD?America chose Barney Frank over Blue Cross back in Nov. I'm just wondering if it was a good choice?

badger
6/26/2009, 11:26 AM
On one hand I think it's funny that Democrats are called "overlords." On the other hand, I'm a lifelong Republican voter.

THREE stars! (yes, bored)

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
6/26/2009, 03:02 PM
I'm listening to Rush this afternoon and I don't know how people take his rants seriously. I mean surely most people get that he's just for entertainment I hope. The pictures he paints are so obnoxiously off-base it's sick. Have you listened to him lately?
:DYeah, that guy! He posts some impossible to believe stuff(for the American left. I would at least hope they were duped)http://www.americanthinker.com/printpage/?url=http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/06/obama_the_african_colonial.html

yermom
6/26/2009, 03:40 PM
The American Stroke Association wants you to learn the warning signs of stroke:

* Sudden numbness or weakness of the face, arm or leg, especially on one side of the body
* Sudden confusion, trouble speaking or understanding
* Sudden trouble seeing in one or both eyes
* Sudden trouble walking, dizziness, loss of balance or coordination
* Sudden, severe headache with no known cause

NYC Poke
6/26/2009, 03:44 PM
The American Stroke Association


Heh.

King Crimson
6/26/2009, 04:20 PM
Yeah, that guy! He posts some impossible to believe stuff(for the American left. I would at least hope they were duped)http://www.americanthinker.com/printpage/?url=http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/06/obama_the_african_colonial.html

from the article:

"Before I continue, I need to say this: I am a first generation born West African-American woman..."

nice work Favor. did you even look at the article or just come in with both standard barrels of goofball paranoia? :D

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
6/26/2009, 04:34 PM
from the article:

"Before I continue, I need to say this: I am a first generation born West African-American woman..."

nice work Favor. did you even look at the article or just come in with both standard barrels of goofball paranoia? :DDid you read it? It might be very comforting to you guys.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
6/26/2009, 07:50 PM
from the article:
"Before I continue, I need to say this: I am a first generation born West African-American woman..."
:DThis is not a problem for you, given your politics, is it?

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
6/28/2009, 03:30 PM
Any board libs who haven't yet read the article I linked to in this thread's post#68? Well, then go read it, pls.

MojoRisen
6/28/2009, 04:19 PM
Wishful thinking and actual threats are two different things.

We still have freedom of...you know...dreaming?

Besides, last I checked, I'm **** out of nukes.

DOH,

I hear that, how in the hell can they exempt themselves from a plan they are trying to pass for the American people. They can go ***** themselves that is ludicrous. Last I checked I pay as much tax as a lot of senators - am I exempt?

They will be torn new ones for that if it even comes close to passing.
:hot:

My Opinion Matters
6/28/2009, 04:28 PM
These healthcare threads are always good for a laugh.

My Opinion Matters
6/28/2009, 04:42 PM
Yeah, that guy! He posts some impossible to believe stuff(for the American left. I would at least hope they were duped)http://www.americanthinker.com/printpage/?url=http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/06/obama_the_african_colonial.html

To summarize:

RLIMC is afraid the big black boogeyman is secretly out to destroy us all. This is hardly impossible for anyone to believe.

King Crimson
6/28/2009, 05:50 PM
the current EIB and those types logic is that the weirder, more implausible, totally absurd the claims about the current islamo-fascist-blackpanther-weathermen-commie conspiracy.....the more TRUE it HAS TO BE because the "state media" (formerly MSM) has to suppress the REAL FACTS. which is what is called an "argument from silence"....since there's nothing to *disprove* the fact then it must be true.....a fallacy, of course.

speaking generally, it's an interesting place to be combining inflammatory nationalism, paranoia and the political sophistication of a Yakov Smirnoff gag.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
6/28/2009, 11:45 PM
the current EIB and those types logic is that the weirder, more implausible, totally absurd the claims about the current islamo-fascist-blackpanther-weathermen-commie conspiracy.....the more TRUE it HAS TO BE because the "state media" (formerly MSM) has to suppress the REAL FACTS. which is what is called an "argument from silence"....since there's nothing to *disprove* the fact then it must be true.....a fallacy, of course.

speaking generally, it's an interesting place to be combining inflammatory nationalism, paranoia and the political sophistication of a Yakov Smirnoff gag.No, I understand, you are right. A promise to destroy the coal industry, Unparalleled government spending, including $5 Billion or more to a dishonest political organization(ACORN), turning the Census over to ACORN, federal government nationalizing most of the auto industry, then turning it over to the unions who support the democrat party while shafting legitimate owners of the stock, forcibly requiring lending institutions to make mortgaage loans to people who had no means for repaying them, imposing a carbon tax which will kill countless jobs, nationalizing the entire medical industry. etc.etc...WHAT WAS I THINKING? How silly I must have been to start this thread, haha.

AggieTool
6/29/2009, 08:22 AM
No, I understand, you are right. A promise to destroy the coal industry,

'Cuz coal is the way to go!

Bellowing black smoke is just awesome!




Unparalleled government spending,

Well, NOW we're concerned about spending...

Better late then never.




including $5 Billion or more to a dishonest political organization(ACORN), turning the Census over to ACORN,

Well the dems have ACORN....

Repubs had the SCOTUS, Swift Boaters, and Tom Delay...

Same effect really.;)



federal government nationalizing most of the auto industry, then turning it over to the unions who support the democrat party while shafting legitimate owners of the stock,

Hmm.....wasn't it GW that started bailing out private industry? I guess bailouts are okay as long as it's OUR rich friends we're helping.:D


forcibly requiring lending institutions to make mortgaage loans to people who had no means for repaying them,

Yet foreclosures and CRA account for less than 10% of the current crisis. ;)


imposing a carbon tax which will kill countless jobs, nationalizing the entire medical industry. etc.etc...WHAT WAS I THINKING? How silly I must have been to start this thread, haha.

Auntie Em!!!!:P

MojoRisen
6/29/2009, 08:27 AM
It was a clinton policy, for the Fannie Mae Loans. Now that the government owns them, too me it was like an under handed hostile take over.

AggieTool
6/29/2009, 08:33 AM
It was a clinton policy, for the Fannie Mae Loans. Now that the government owns them, too me it was like an under handed hostile take over.

Don't forget Phil Gramm sponsored deregulation.:)

MojoRisen
6/29/2009, 08:43 AM
Pure Genius from the Socialist's 12+ years in advance of the fall out, what sneaky bastards... instead of hey we screwed up, here is some money to help... It was more like now that you are on your knee's go ahead and whack yourself for trusting us and we will be taking over on Monday. Thanks now move along

Some of those companies want to give the money back from the stimulus and the government will not let them. What gives?

yermom
6/29/2009, 09:06 AM
a few were apparently forced to take it in the first place...

MojoRisen
6/29/2009, 09:17 AM
I am starting to buy into this socialist stuff- next ethnic cleansing of the rich and conservative.

Pure Genius, take out all the old Jewish folks buy taking away their money as it applies to healthcare. This could also save Social Security

King Crimson
6/29/2009, 10:34 AM
I am starting to buy into this socialist stuff- next ethnic cleansing of the rich and conservative.

Pure Genius, take out all the old Jewish folks buy taking away their money as it applies to healthcare. This could also save Social Security

even if "this" was Socialism, competing economic systems are not in any way comparable to ethnic cleansing.

MojoRisen
6/29/2009, 10:54 AM
I disagree, if they are old and can't get healthcare like they used too with all that $ in itself is ethinic cleansing with out actually doing it yourself.

King Crimson
6/29/2009, 11:10 AM
I disagree, if they are old and can't get healthcare like they used too with all that $ in itself is ethinic cleansing with out actually doing it yourself.

i think you are looking for a different word than ethnic cleansing. i get what you mean, but what you are talking about is more like passive euthanasia scheme on some kind of social scale (which is a little sci fi dystopia)....and has nothing to do with "socialism" as a form of economic planning.

by the same token, one could argue that since capitalism makes older people useless in the work-force, and they become non-viable in the "free market" and thus face a shorter life cycle because they are no longer competitive, that the justice of market economics is a form of "ethnic cleansing".

competing economic systems have nothing to do with ethnic cleansing. and older people are not an "ethnicity". to even use that kind of language is inflammatory and your use of the term is inaccurate.

MojoRisen
6/29/2009, 11:22 AM
Ok, old people cleansing. Seriously though if their money becomes illrelevant to health care. After paying for medicare all there lives and having to plan for coverage are now forced in line with everyone else for healthcare and major surgery/treatments. Could easily be looked at as a way to lower the number of old people to off set the collapse of Social Security. Also to keep in mind it is the minorities, Young Voters and other groups that make up a large portion of the democratic vote. Old Conservatives, Jews, and others are expendable in the realm of the Vote which ='s Power.

Competing Economics- to me has nothing to do with forcing one onto a Government System, with the potential to undermind older people who typically vote conservative. Now that is some sci fi thinking but could be very real - unless you think that the holocaust didn't happen only 65 years ago. Let alone Bosnia, Africa and Mid East Terrorism. They all hate the jew

sitzpinkler
6/29/2009, 11:25 AM
Ok, old people cleansing. Seriously though if their money becomes illrelevant to health care. After paying for medicare all there lives and having to plan for coverage are now forced in line with everyone else for healthcare and major surgery/treatments. Could easily be looked at as a way to lower the number of old people to off set the collapse of Social Security. Also to keep in mind it is the minorities, Young Voters and other groups that make up a large portion of the democratic vote. Old Conservatives, Jews, and others are expendable in the realm of the Vote which ='s Power.

Competing Economics- to me has nothing to do with forcing one onto a Government System, with the potential to undermind older people who typically vote conservative. Now that is some sci fi thinking but could be very real - unless you think that the holocaust didn't happen only 65 years ago. Let alone Bosnia, Africa and Mid East Terrorism. They all hate the jew

haha, WTF?

yermom
6/29/2009, 11:25 AM
what were we talking about again? :confused:

personally, i like waffles for breakfast

MojoRisen
6/29/2009, 11:30 AM
haha, WTF?

If I have to listen to Rev wright, Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson... Someone better represent the old whitey & Jew in America.

King Crimson
6/29/2009, 01:31 PM
Ok, old people cleansing. Seriously though if their money becomes illrelevant to health care. After paying for medicare all there lives and having to plan for coverage are now forced in line with everyone else for healthcare and major surgery/treatments. Could easily be looked at as a way to lower the number of old people to off set the collapse of Social Security. Also to keep in mind it is the minorities, Young Voters and other groups that make up a large portion of the democratic vote. Old Conservatives, Jews, and others are expendable in the realm of the Vote which ='s Power.

Competing Economics- to me has nothing to do with forcing one onto a Government System, with the potential to undermind older people who typically vote conservative. Now that is some sci fi thinking but could be very real - unless you think that the holocaust didn't happen only 65 years ago. Let alone Bosnia, Africa and Mid East Terrorism. They all hate the jew

i don't have any idea how you've linked what i said to denying the holocaust or Bosnia. you are the one using the term "ethnic cleansing" in a way that would seem to trivialize it, not me.

i guess you think that "capitalism" and free market systems are "independent" of the Government System we've had in the last 250 years? that's pretty naive, if that's what you think.

MojoRisen
6/29/2009, 01:41 PM
I don't think Capitalism has anything to do with having everyone on a Socialist system. If anything I think Capitalism and Healthcare really don't mix at all- but perhaps could.

Sci Fi thinking was my only link as if you were saying the idea is too far fetched which it really isn't. It could be pawned that way but if you really think about it- Hitler the Socialist was about as SCI FI as someone can be weather in his Air force/designs & strategy or Rocket Science.

Ethnic cleansing may be a little bit of a harsh word, however weeding out old white conservatives and Jewish folks in America as a bigger percentage of people who will suffer from bad healthcare is a reality.

My conclusion is the elimination of 5-10% of the conservative vote with bad healthcare - would also offset the Social Security fall out of 2041 and help the Socialist stay in power until Chelsea is old enough to run.

Fraggle145
6/29/2009, 01:46 PM
Old people suck. Get out of my lane Blue Hair!!!

King Crimson
6/29/2009, 01:58 PM
I don't think Capitalism has anything to do with having everyone on a Socialist system. If anything I think Capitalism and Healthcare really don't mix at all- but perhaps could.

Sci Fi thinking was my only link as if you were saying the idea is too far fetched which it really isn't. It could be pawned that way but if you really think about it- Hitler the Socialist was about as SCI FI as someone can be weather in his Air force/designs & strategy or Rocket Science.

Ethnic cleansing may be a little bit of a harsh word, however weeding out old white conservatives and Jewish folks in America as a bigger percentage of people who will suffer from bad healthcare is a reality.

My conclusion is the elimination of 5-10% of the conservative vote with bad healthcare - would also offset the Social Security fall out of 2041 and help the Socialist stay in power until Chelsea is old enough to run.

well, i see what you are saying. i don't think, however, we've established that it's a purposeful aspect of the direction Obama wants to take vis a vis healthcare that older jews and conservatives are a target for "soft extinction"....with engineering the Brave New Future in mind...as a scheme to eliminate opposing viewpoints.

think tanks, left and right, churn out a lot of really weird (sci fi, if you want) stuff....but, i think maybe that sounds a little hysterical at this point. however, if you look at a lot of the COINTELPRO stuff from the 50's and early 60's, who knows?

NYC Poke
6/29/2009, 02:02 PM
Hey, somebody took my guns! :mad:

MojoRisen
6/29/2009, 02:04 PM
That was reafer and Cocain Obama was tryin out, I sure a little LSD as well. :)

While watching Solient Green in his Dorm room... Got money on it.

My Opinion Matters
6/29/2009, 02:44 PM
Aliens, Mojo. Don't forget about the aliens.

MojoRisen
6/29/2009, 02:52 PM
Aliens, Mojo. Don't forget about the aliens.

Now your on to something, that was the socialist democrat from Ohio Krucinich who tried to explain to the American People that we are not alone!

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
6/29/2009, 08:58 PM
Now your on to something, that was the socialist democrat from Ohio Krucinich who tried to explain to the American People that we are not alone!

BARRY, WE LOVE YA!
"I come to you, so silent in the night
So stealthy, so animal quiet
Ill be your savior, steadfast and true
Ill come to your emotional rescue
Ill come to your emotional rescue"

MojoRisen
6/29/2009, 09:43 PM
5 to 1 baaaaaaaaby, one in 5. No one here get's out alive. Please be careful with me I can get fired up and play with my hair on fire.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
6/30/2009, 08:32 PM
Gawrsh, has EVERYBODY read the article linked in post #68?

Vaevictis
6/30/2009, 08:48 PM
If you haven't already, and you're tempted to do so, clean the lint out of your belly button instead. It's a better use of your time.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
6/30/2009, 09:00 PM
If you haven't already, and you're tempted to do so, clean the lint out of your belly button instead. It's a better use of your time.Golly gee, you're the cat's meow!

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
7/1/2009, 01:41 PM
Hey Limnologist, you want I should bump this beauty again?

yermom
7/1/2009, 01:50 PM
HAHA!

OklahomaTuba
7/1/2009, 02:16 PM
So, how long before this fine Obamatopia we have here reaches 10% funemployment???

I've giving till August at least.

yermom
7/1/2009, 02:19 PM
depending on how you cook the numbers, it's probably there already

OklahomaRed
7/1/2009, 02:26 PM
If you want to see what government run healthcare looks like, just visit your local VA hospital. If you would rather have that type care than what you can get in the private sector, then take a number, get in line, and hope you don't get sick between now and then. :D

Scott D
7/1/2009, 02:30 PM
which is better, pumpkin pie or rhubarb pie?

OklahomaTuba
7/1/2009, 02:33 PM
If you want to see what government run healthcare looks like, just visit your local VA hospital. If you would rather have that type care than what you can get in the private sector, then take a number, get in line, and hope you don't get sick between now and then. :D
Better yet, check out the polls on the Government Run insurance plan from Mass.

This is a disaster.

StoopTroup
7/1/2009, 02:40 PM
It will all be OK...

Once I get settled into my office I'll be all over it. :D

OklahomaTuba
7/1/2009, 03:21 PM
You mean this guy????
http://www.weaselzippers.net/.a/6a00e008c6b4e58834011570a53f5a970c-320wi

We are in the very BEST of hands.

My Opinion Matters
7/1/2009, 04:47 PM
So, how long before this fine Obamatopia we have here reaches 10% funemployment???

I've giving till August at least.

These are not sentences.

OklahomaTuba
7/1/2009, 04:49 PM
These are not sentences.
Ditto.

Scott D
7/1/2009, 04:50 PM
you ****ers are unamerican for hating both pumpkin pie and rhubarb pie.

stoops the eternal pimp
7/1/2009, 04:53 PM
bitches man

StoopTroup
7/1/2009, 05:21 PM
You mean this guy????
http://www.weaselzippers.net/.a/6a00e008c6b4e58834011570a53f5a970c-320wi

We are in the very BEST of hands.

You made me laugh....it's been awhile....

soonerscuba
7/1/2009, 05:30 PM
you ****ers are unamerican for hating both pumpkin pie and rhubarb pie.I couldn't understand how someone could put rubarb and pumpkin pie in the same sentence and ask which is better? Pumpkin clearly is the winner, and it isn't even close, this is like asking which is better, the Beatles or the Plastic Ono Band? Both have some good stuff, but it doesn't take a genius to identify the better option.

StoopTroup
7/1/2009, 05:38 PM
I couldn't understand how someone could put rubarb and pumpkin pie in the same sentence and ask which is better? Pumpkin clearly is the winner, and it isn't even close, this is like asking which is better, the Beatles or the Plastic Ono Band? Both have some good stuff, but it doesn't take a genius to identify the better option.


Wings?

http://www.maccafan.net/Albums/VenusAndMars/Front.jpg

Fraggle145
7/1/2009, 05:48 PM
Hey Limnologist, you want I should bump this beauty again?

Oh would you? Heaven forbid one of your threads ever leaves the first page. you are an inspiration to us all.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
7/2/2009, 11:24 AM
Oh would you? Heaven forbid one of your threads ever leaves the first page. you are an inspiration to us all.You didn't have to answer that rhetorical question, you know?

Fraggle145
7/2/2009, 11:46 AM
Rhetorical questions arent meant to be answered dumbass.

Let it die man.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
7/2/2009, 12:43 PM
Rhetorical questions arent meant to be answered dumbass.

That's what I said, Namecaller.(Did you report yourself to the mods, yet?...they just can't hep it, y'know)

Fraggle145
7/2/2009, 12:52 PM
Go for it flame baiter. Your question wasnt rhetorical. You asked if I wanted you to bump it and you wanted a response.

Mine was rhetorical

LosAngelesSooner
7/2/2009, 12:53 PM
This turdbucket of a thread still lives?

Somebody killz it, plzkthnx.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
7/2/2009, 01:05 PM
Go for it flame baiter. Your question wasnt rhetorical. You asked if I wanted you to bump it and you wanted a response.

Mine was rhetoricalGood lord, why all the anger? You've got a govt. job, so you're set.

Fraggle145
7/2/2009, 01:27 PM
Good lord, why all the anger? You've got a govt. job, so you're set.

Actually I dont have a government job.

There isnt any anger. I just get tired of your shortsightedness and your refusal to respond to logic, reason, or any differences of opinion. Instead you harass and constantly bump your own threads when nobody responds until you are impossible to be ignored. Expecting people to respond to you and your opinions even though you refuse to rationally respond to theirs. Its just like a 5 year old child.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
7/2/2009, 01:31 PM
...There isnt any anger... Good. This is just an internet message board, and not worth taking very seriously, IMO

JohnnyMack
7/2/2009, 01:37 PM
I had carnitas for lunch today. They were pretty good. Squeezed a little lime on top of them.

Scott D
7/2/2009, 03:22 PM
shoulda squeezed the lime in your eye. That would have provided afternoon amusement.

49r
7/2/2009, 03:40 PM
http://www.cheaplocks.com.au/Zen/zen-cart-v1.3.8a-full-fileset-12112007/images/BDS%20234%20Padlock.jpg

tommieharris91
7/2/2009, 03:54 PM
I had carnitas for lunch today. They were pretty good. Squeezed a little lime on top of them.

Did you eat with the Supreme Representative Sally Kern?

Harry Beanbag
7/2/2009, 04:01 PM
I hate pork. Except for bacon. I love bacon.

Scott D
7/2/2009, 04:04 PM
I hate pork. Except for bacon. I love bacon.


Grandpa: Well let me tell you something now, Johnny. Last Thursday, I turned 95 years old. And I never exercised a day in my life. Every morning, I wake up, and I smoke a cigarette. And then I eat five strips of bacon. And for lunch, I eat a bacon sandwich. And for a midday snack?
John: Bacon.
Grandpa: Bacon! A whole damn plate! And I usually drink my dinner. Now according to all of them flat-belly experts, I should've took a dirt nap like thirty years ago. But each year comes and goes, and I'm still here. Ha! And they keep dyin'. You know? Sometimes I wonder if God forgot about me. Just goes to show you, huh?
John: What?
Grandpa: Huh?
John: Goes to show you what?
Grandpa: Well it just goes... what the hell are you talkin' about?
John: Well you said you drink beer, you eat bacon and you smoke cigarettes, and you outlive most of the experts.
Grandpa: Yeah?
John: I thought maybe there was a moral.
Grandpa: No, there ain't no moral. I just like that story. That's all. Like that story.

King Crimson
7/2/2009, 04:19 PM
I hate pork. Except for bacon. I love bacon.

dude, tacos al pastor. carnitas with green sauce.

you are missing out

Harry Beanbag
7/2/2009, 04:48 PM
Nah, I ain't Jewish, I just don't dig on swine, that's all.

JohnnyMack
7/2/2009, 04:48 PM
It'd have to be one charming mother****ing pig...

Harry Beanbag
7/2/2009, 04:49 PM
I mean he'd have to be ten times more charmin' than that Arnold on Green Acres, you know what I'm sayin'?

King Crimson
7/2/2009, 04:53 PM
It'd have to be one charming mother****ing pig...

heh.

Jerk
7/2/2009, 11:34 PM
Well, I haven't read this thread in a few days.

The only thing I have to say is this: There are no Republicans around to blame. They were voted out. Democrats have the whole plate. And they took ownership of this sinking ship once they mortgaged the country and passed the stimulus . Good luck.

Fraggle145
7/2/2009, 11:40 PM
Well, I haven't read this thread in a few days.

The only thing I have to say is this: There are no Republicans around to blame. They were voted out. Democrats have the whole plate. And they took ownership of this sinking ship once they mortgaged the country and passed the stimulus . Good luck.

The only thing I would say to this is that the Republicans passed their own stimulus first (i.e. TARP I)... So even if they arent there any more they can still be to blame.

Jerk
7/2/2009, 11:43 PM
The only thing I would say to this is that the Republicans passed their own stimulus first... So even if they arent there any more they can still be to blame.

Keynesian voodoo bull****. We had our share of them, too.

"hey, it didn't work, let's make it bigger and do it again!"

The first one was passed by a Democrat Congress and signed into law by a 'compassionate conservative'

Just sayin..

Fraggle145
7/2/2009, 11:48 PM
Keynesian voodoo bull****. We had our share of them, too.

"hey, it didn't work, let's make it bigger and do it again!"

The first one was passed by a Democrat Congress and signed into law by a 'compassionate conservative'

Just sayin..

Not disagreeing completely... just saying isnt that against what being conservative is all about?

And regardless of the congress he could have trashed it if he wanted to.

Hence, IMO, he has to share part of the blame when the blame game is played.

Jerk
7/3/2009, 12:10 AM
Not disagreeing completely... just saying isnt that against what being conservative is all about?

And regardless of the congress he could have trashed it if he wanted to.

Hence, IMO, he has to share part of the blame when the blame game is played.


You are correct and I disagree with nothing you say.

My point is this - bailouts and stimulus packages are bull****. They have proven not to work. We are not anywhere near the bottom, and doing the same thing over and over again that doesn't work is insanity, yet they are making them bigger each time they pass another one.

There will be no recovery until all of the debt in the system is either defaulted on or paid back, yet our leaders have decided to put all of this debt on the backs of the taxpayer and into the public treasury, which is now a ticking time bomb waiting to kill us all once China figures out that we might no be able to pay them back.

Let the failures fail. Bankruptcy is a normal part of free markets. Propping up these failures and putting their debts on the backs of the taxpayer will cost us dearly for generations.

just sayin...

King Crimson
7/3/2009, 12:16 AM
yeah, and the Fairness Doctrine is right around the corner.

according to Bill Fave.

Vaevictis
7/3/2009, 12:37 AM
I would just like to point out that Bush and a Republican congress passed a stimulus package on the tail end of a recession early this decade. This involved large tax cuts, and drastically increased military spending. It also turned a surplus into a rather large deficit which resulted in increasing the national debt by around 60% by the end of Bush's presidency.

Reagan did roughly the same thing in the 80's, increasing the national debt by about 150% by the end of his presidency.

This whole mess has been snowballing my whole life, and putting it on any one party is silly.

Jerk
7/3/2009, 12:40 AM
I would just like to point out that Bush and a Republican congress passed a stimulus package on the tail end of a recession early this decade. This involved large tax cuts, and drastically increased military spending. It also turned a surplus into a rather large deficit which resulted in increasing the national debt by around 60% by the end of Bush's presidency.

Reagan did roughly the same thing in the 80's, increasing the national debt by about 150% by the end of his presidency.

This whole mess has been snowballing my whole life, and putting it on any one party is silly.


You're right, even though I'd argue with you on some of the finer details, like Reagan because he had to work with a Democrat Congress. But you are still right.

The solution is to outlaw deficit spending in times of peace. Or at least cap it to a manageable (sustainable) level.

Right now, we are living under a giant pyramid scheme. I hope I'm not in the generation that gets left holding the bad when the creditors figure it out.

Vaevictis
7/3/2009, 12:45 AM
Tangent: I find this amusing. Let's give Reagan the credit for our military's resurgence during that period, but let's ignore the Democratic congress that authorized the spending. Unless we're talking about the debt racked up in that period. Then we'll let the Democrats have some of the credit.

EDIT: Note, that's not specifically directed at you Jerk. Your comment just brought it to mind.

Vaevictis
7/3/2009, 12:53 AM
The solution is to outlaw deficit spending in times of peace. Or at least cap it to a manageable (sustainable) level.

The problem with this is that if we do that, politicians will just drum up a war whenever they want to run a deficit.

You know it's true.

yermom
7/3/2009, 01:18 AM
The problem with this is that if we do that, politicians will just drum up a war whenever they want to run a deficit.

You know it's true.

you mean the neverending war we are in?

Vaevictis
7/3/2009, 01:21 AM
Can we pretend you didn't say that, so we don't have this thread filled with about 10 more pages of crap?

Fraggle145
7/3/2009, 01:40 AM
Is it 1984?

JLEW1818
7/3/2009, 10:44 AM
You are correct and I disagree with nothing you say.

My point is this - bailouts and stimulus packages are bull****. They have proven not to work. We are not anywhere near the bottom, and doing the same thing over and over again that doesn't work is insanity, yet they are making them bigger each time they pass another one.

There will be no recovery until all of the debt in the system is either defaulted on or paid back, yet our leaders have decided to put all of this debt on the backs of the taxpayer and into the public treasury, which is now a ticking time bomb waiting to kill us all once China figures out that we might no be able to pay them back.

Let the failures fail. Bankruptcy is a normal part of free markets. Propping up these failures and putting their debts on the backs of the taxpayer will cost us dearly for generations.

just sayin...



i agree ... but obama has walked on water before.... soo...

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
7/4/2009, 06:49 PM
I would just like to point out that Bush and a Republican congress passed a stimulus package on the tail end of a recession early this decade. This involved large TAX CUTS, and drastically increased military spending.

A stimulus package that involved tax cuts, which prompted a ROBUST ECONOMY, until the democrat geniuses in congress decided to require lenders to make stupid loans, eventually resulting in worldwide recession, and getting a marxist elected president, in what was formerly the land of the free. No Biggee.

SORRY FOR TAKING SO LONG TO RESPOND. The fishing was good down in the Gulf of CA. Nice groupers, to 65lbs.

Fraggle145
7/4/2009, 10:59 PM
WHY!? WHYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!???????

JohnnyMack
7/4/2009, 11:08 PM
A stimulus package that involved tax cuts, which prompted a ROBUST ECONOMY, until the democrat geniuses in congress decided to require lenders to make stupid loans, eventually resulting in worldwide recession, and getting a marxist elected president, in what was formerly the land of the free.

You make common sense and rational thought sad.

soonerhubs
7/4/2009, 11:39 PM
A stimulus package that involved tax cuts, which prompted a ROBUST ECONOMY, until the democrat geniuses in congress decided to require lenders to make stupid loans, eventually resulting in worldwide recession, and getting a marxist elected president, in what was formerly the land of the free. No Biggee.

SORRY FOR TAKING SO LONG TO RESPOND. The fishing was good down in the Gulf of CA. Nice groupers, to 65lbs.



Just as Absolute communism is based on the Utopian idea that all people will be ethical and carry their weight, I would suggest that an absolute market free of all regulations is a fallacy as well based on the Utopian idea that folks like Madoff, Paula Reiker, or the individuals who repackaged and sold worthless derivatives would all be ethical and be honest in their business dealings (let alone the assumption that folks wouldn't borrow outside of their means to pay back loans.).

This economic "boom" that was all the rage the last few years was based on everyone in the country being encouraged on a general scale to borrow and spend as if there would never come a day of reckoning. What happened after was the chaos of the market correcting for such stupidity and irresponsibility. It went to the housing, then oil, and is now the burden is being socialized by the tax payers, both the idiots who took too many risks and those who didn't. By the way, these actions of socialized cost began under the Bush administration not the Obama administration. (Not that this excused the current administration from being taken to task for numerous projects that are frivolous, but that's a topic for another thread).

After seeing the consequences of a systemic collapse of the markets, I kinda see why Henry Paulsen (an avid promoter of free market capitalism) went against everything he believed in back in the fall of 08. Had he not, who knows what kind of pandemonium would have set in regarding the markets.

Bottom Line: Perhaps there needs to be a balance of regulation as well as taxing and spending. Why can't there be that? Why does it have to be an absolute one way or another?

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
7/5/2009, 12:22 AM
Just as Absolute communism is based on the Utopian idea that all people will be ethical and carry their weight, I would suggest that an absolute market free of all regulations is a fallacy as well based on the Utopian idea that folks like Madoff, Paula Reiker, or the individuals who repackaged and sold worthless derivatives would all be ethical and be honest in their business dealings (let alone the assumption that folks wouldn't borrow outside of their means to pay back loans.).

This economic "boom" that was all the rage the last few years was based on everyone in the country being encouraged on a general scale to borrow and spend as if there would never come a day of reckoning. What happened after was the chaos of the market correcting for such stupidity and irresponsibility. It went to the housing, then oil, and is now the burden is being socialized by the tax payers, both the idiots who took too many risks and those who didn't. By the way, these actions of socialized cost began under the Bush administration not the Obama administration. (Not that this excused the current administration from being taken to task for numerous projects that are frivolous, but that's a topic for another thread).

After seeing the consequences of a systemic collapse of the markets, I kinda see why Henry Paulsen (an avid promoter of free market capitalism) went against everything he believed in back in the fall of 08. Had he not, who knows what kind of pandemonium would have set in regarding the markets.

Bottom Line: Perhaps there needs to be a balance of regulation as well as taxing and spending. Why can't there be that? Why does it have to be an absolute one way or another?Who is suggesting or arguing against the premise of your first paragraph?

"everyone in the country being encouraged on a general scale to borrow and spend as if there would never come a day of reckoning". That, from your second paragraph, you have approached, but not addressed my point. That is, the pressured lending by DEMOCRATS in CONGRESS to those who couldn't pay. That forced lending caused the failure of the mortgage industry, and caused the economy to break down. Neither Bush, nor congressional republicans caused this, though it was done while Bush was president. I think you know that.

I agree with your point, but it was the abandonement of mortgage lending guidelines that started the domino line-a relaxation of standards, if not regulations.

Fraggle145
7/5/2009, 01:36 AM
did you read that rolling stone article that was a thread a week ago? if not you should...

soonerhubs
7/5/2009, 06:30 PM
Who is suggesting or arguing against the premise of your first paragraph?

"everyone in the country being encouraged on a general scale to borrow and spend as if there would never come a day of reckoning". That, from your second paragraph, you have approached, but not addressed my point. That is, the pressured lending by DEMOCRATS in CONGRESS to those who couldn't pay. That forced lending caused the failure of the mortgage industry, and caused the economy to break down. Neither Bush, nor congressional republicans caused this, though it was done while Bush was president. I think you know that.

I agree with your point, but it was the abandonement of mortgage lending guidelines that started the domino line-a relaxation of standards, if not regulations.
Good point. I do agree that there was some irresponsible pressure put on by the government to force banks to make unsound loans. I also agree that not enough accountability has been placed on these folks for their pushing these unsound loans. In that you are correct. That's the paradox of government interference. If we put too much trust in the government to regulate our business do we not promote the Utopian idea that all people in power are honest, pure minded, altruistic public servants with nothing but the best interests of others at the top of their agenda (See Mark Sanford, Blagojevich, and the many others who betray the pubilc's trust)?

Echoes
7/5/2009, 06:50 PM
I would just like to point out that Bush and a Republican congress passed a stimulus package on the tail end of a recession early this decade. This involved large tax cuts, and drastically increased military spending. It also turned a surplus into a rather large deficit which resulted in increasing the national debt by around 60% by the end of Bush's presidency.

Reagan did roughly the same thing in the 80's, increasing the national debt by about 150% by the end of his presidency.

This whole mess has been snowballing my whole life, and putting it on any one party is silly.

This quote warrants reading again.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
7/5/2009, 07:20 PM
A stimulus package that involved tax cuts, which prompted a ROBUST ECONOMY, until the democrat geniuses in congress decided to require lenders to make stupid loans, eventually resulting in worldwide recession, and getting a marxist elected president, in what was formerly the land of the free. No Biggee.

Then, you would want to reread the above, too.,

Vaevictis
7/5/2009, 07:53 PM
... actually you wouldn't, unless you enjoy reading patent falsehoods, embellishments and foolishness.

Feel free to provide evidence that Congress' activities with respect to CRA, etc, actually resulted in bogus loans being made -- despite the fact that various studies and bankers in charge of making the loans call shenanigans on the claim.

We can start with Froze, a guy who sort of knows about this sort of thing being that he's a professional in the field.

People make risky loans because they can charge higher interest rates for risky loans. It's really that simple.

Vaevictis
7/5/2009, 08:01 PM
And irrespective of the veracity of your claims, we can assume that they're true, and still say with absolute certainty:

Said stimulus package and increased military spending still resulted in the federal deficit increasing by 60% by the end of Bush's second term despite his being handed a federal surplus when he entered office.

This of course goes back to my original point: Both parties are responsible for the debt overhang we have.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
7/5/2009, 08:33 PM
And irrespective of the veracity of your claims, we can assume that they're true, and still say with absolute certainty:

Said stimulus package and increased military spending still resulted in the federal deficit increasing by 60% by the end of Bush's second term despite his being handed a federal surplus when he entered office.

This of course goes back to my original point: Both parties are responsible for the debt overhang we have.Military spending and lowering the taxes are GOOD things, and lowering taxes ACTUALLY DOES stimulate the economy, and did, under Bush, even with his unforgiveable social spending. The debt overhang is secondary in importance to the shambles that the democrat party has made of the economy, and has no intention of changing their ways. That acknowledgement is the purpose of this thread.

jkjsooner
7/5/2009, 08:38 PM
Keynesian voodoo bull****. We had our share of them, too.

"hey, it didn't work, let's make it bigger and do it again!"

The first one was passed by a Democrat Congress and signed into law by a 'compassionate conservative'

Just sayin..


It was also designed and advocated by a Republican appointed fed chair and secretary of the treasury.

Just sayin..

soonerhubs
7/5/2009, 08:41 PM
Question: Assuming that many of these initial bailouts saved us from some horrendous disaster, which I'm willing to accept, where is the line drawn that marks the line between too much, and not enough government stimulus?

jkjsooner
7/5/2009, 08:53 PM
You are correct and I disagree with nothing you say.

My point is this - bailouts and stimulus packages are bull****. They have proven not to work. We are not anywhere near the bottom, and doing the same thing over and over again that doesn't work is insanity, yet they are making them bigger each time they pass another one.


I don't fully disagree with your statement but there are economists out there who believed that we were on the verge of a full collapse last October. I believe Bush was being told exactly that and that is why he went for TARP I.

BTW, Bush did appoint an economist with a background of studying the depression to be the Chairman of the Fed Reserve. Long before TARP I, it was clear that Bernanke believed that the federal reserve was primarily to blame for the Great Depression due to their inaction allowing the money supply to contract significantly.

I'm not saying Bernanke is right but Bush did put into place a lot of people who were instrumental in the bailouts and I think a lot of these people still to this day believe that TARP I was absolutely necessary.


Let the failures fail. Bankruptcy is a normal part of free markets. Propping up these failures and putting their debts on the backs of the taxpayer will cost us dearly for generations.

There is nothing I would like to see more than to see these players fail and go bankrupt. If the consequence is an economic panic and another Great Depression then, well, that's just too big of a price.

There is a lot that they've done that disturbs me but at this point I know that guys like Bernanke understand economics a lot better than I do and all I can do is trust them.

Vaevictis
7/5/2009, 08:58 PM
Question: Assuming that many of these initial bailouts saved us from some horrendous disaster, which I'm willing to accept, where is the line drawn that marks the line between too much, and not enough government stimulus?

That's the problem with this sort of thing. You never can tell where that line is until well after the fact.

The problem with trying to manage an economy is that your data is invariably noisy and incomplete. You simply cannot have precise data in the places you need it at the speed you need it, nor can you react with the speed you need to react.

This is why, when the appropriate conditions are met, a market system is vastly superior to a planned system -- when the correct conditions are met, market systems have internal feedback loops that automatically steer resources to something approximating their most efficient use.

Scott D
7/5/2009, 09:00 PM
I don't fully disagree with your statement but there are economists out there who believed that we were on the verge of a full collapse last October. I believe Bush was being told exactly that and that is why he went for TARP I.

BTW, Bush did appoint an economist with a background of studying the depression to be the Chairman of the Fed Reserve. Long before TARP I, it was clear that Bernanke believed that the federal reserve was primarily to blame for the Great Depression due to their inaction allowing the money supply to contract significantly.

I'm not saying Bernanke is right but Bush did put into place a lot of people who were instrumental in the bailouts and I think a lot of these people still to this day believe that TARP I was absolutely necessary.

We can't validate this post because you aren't expressing any sort of outrage, real or imagined. We thank you for your effort in being logical and typing reasonably though.

jkjsooner
7/5/2009, 09:09 PM
A stimulus package that involved tax cuts, which prompted a ROBUST ECONOMY, until the democrat geniuses in congress decided to require lenders to make stupid loans, eventually resulting in worldwide recession, and getting a marxist elected president, in what was formerly the land of the free. No Biggee.


When exactly was the economy robust? You blame decisions made in the mid '90s for our current crisis yet you then turn around and say that the economy was robust in 2002/2003.

What we perceived as the economic recovery earlier this decade was based primarily on the wealth affect due to the real estate bubble. Our economy was not sound at all. The storms had been brewing for years.

jkjsooner
7/5/2009, 09:17 PM
Bottom Line: Perhaps there needs to be a balance of regulation as well as taxing and spending. Why can't there be that? Why does it have to be an absolute one way or another?

Because it is convenient for those with political agendas and it plays well to those with overly simplistic worldviews.

Edit: Please don't take this as a criticism of one party or another. I think this applies to both sides.

jkjsooner
7/5/2009, 09:27 PM
That's the problem with this sort of thing. You never can tell where that line is until well after the fact.


I'm not sure we can even tell after the fact. The only real proof is if we didn't do enough and the economy collapses.

It's kind of like the changes we made after 9/11. Did we go too far? Who knows? It would be obvious, however, if we didn't go far enough.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
7/5/2009, 11:39 PM
That's the problem with this sort of thing. You never can tell where that line is until well after the fact.

The problem with trying to manage an economy is that your data is invariably noisy and incomplete. You simply cannot have precise data in the places you need it at the speed you need it, nor can you react with the speed you need to react.

This is why, when the appropriate conditions are met, a market system is vastly superior to a planned system -- when the correct conditions are met, market systems have internal feedback loops that automatically steer resources to something approximating their most efficient use.What?..good goin'!...but, it's not like there's not already a track record out there for socialism and govt. spending, esp. the FDR years 1932 til he died with the WWII still raging.