horn fans, lets be honest... [Archive] - SoonerFans.com Message Boards

Collier11

6/18/2009, 11:34 AM

OKLA21FAN

6/18/2009, 11:36 AM

"but....but...but.....'we're...*Texas*!!!!!" :pop:

JLEW1818

6/18/2009, 11:56 AM

dude,, if freaking pete carroll would have had reggie bush on the field on that 4th and 2..... shoot... even use him as a decoy.... the horns would never have had a chance.....

damn you pete

but then again.... are record winning streak would be up in the air.........

htownsooner7

6/18/2009, 12:12 PM

Listen man, I get offended by the horn fans as much as anyone. But I really don't get where this thread is going. Mack Brown and Stoops are different types of coaches. Stoops is more hands on as far as x's and o's, Mack Brown recruits the state of Texas much better. Look at the history of the two programs, which attribute is better for a program has changed back and forth with the times. They've both done well in big situations, they've both underachieved when the world was watching. I'd take Stoops at this point based on the conference championships and the head to head, but its pretty close.

As far as "would they have won without Vince?" No. Would we have won 2000 without Heupel? Nope.

Like I said, I'll take Stoops but I don't think horn fans are that out of line if they love what Mack Brown has done for their program.

JLEW1818

6/18/2009, 12:16 PM

Vince was way more important to their team... he was their offense.

i still wish that bastard would have gone to Miami

Collier11

6/18/2009, 12:26 PM

Listen man, I get offended by the horn fans as much as anyone. But I really don't get where this thread is going. *Mack* Brown and Stoops are different types of coaches. Stoops is more hands on as far as x's and o's, *Mack* Brown recruits the state of *Texas* much better. Look at the history of the two programs, which attribute is better for a program has changed back and forth with the times. They've both done well in big situations, they've both underachieved when the world was watching. I'd take Stoops at this point based on the conference championships and the head to head, but its pretty close.

As far as "would they have won without Vince?" No. Would we have won 2000 without Heupel? Nope.

Like I said, I'll take Stoops but I don't think horn fans are that out of line if they love what *Mack* Brown has done for their program.

The point of the thread is this, every single Horn fan on here comes on talking crap(im talking specific instances) which is to be expected but when you pose them certain questions they avoid them like the plague, this way I only address those questions and they have no excuse not to answer them

Collier11

6/18/2009, 12:27 PM

As far as "would they have won without Vince?" No. Would we have won 2000 without Heupel? Nope.

Brown w/o Young= 0 conf titles, 0 natl titles, 0 natl title appearances

Stoops w/o Heupel= 5 conf titles, 0 natl titles, 3 natl title appearances

Not even close

Curly Bill

6/18/2009, 12:39 PM

Whorn fans are ghey.

Even the whorn fans that I am friends with, when it comes to their whorn fandom are absolutely ghey about it.

I don't know what happens first, whether you have to be ghey to become a whorn fan, or becoming a whorn fan makes you ghey, but like I said: some guys/gals that otherwise have enough admirable qualities to make them friends are ghey in that area of their lives.

JLEW1818

6/18/2009, 12:40 PM

Eielson

6/18/2009, 12:50 PM

As far as "would they have won without Vince?" No. Would we have won 2000 without Heupel? Nope.

What if we had White? Bradford?

JLEW1818

6/18/2009, 12:55 PM

What if we had White? Bradford?

ding ding!

Position Limit

6/18/2009, 01:07 PM

sir claps alot totally takes a back seat to stoops. i know whorns like to bring up winning the last few years, but so what? texas tech has "beaten" OU a few times the last few of years. whats the point? mike leach is as good of a coach as stoops? for that matter, leach is a much better coach than brown. that's right, i said it. leach is a better coach than brown. if both stoops and brown went looking for a job today, stoops would have many offers. both pro and college. butter teeth, not so much. he probably wouldnt have much of a chance outside the state of texas. every year stoops and his teams expect to win the confrence and go after the national title. brown and his teams hope to pull a win out of their asses againt OU and get luckly enough to win the confrence. how many years now has the country had to listen to mack **** and moan a beg on national tv about getting into some bcs game? how embarrassing for texas fans. this year stoops breaks it off in macks *** again. mark it.

1890MilesToNorman

6/18/2009, 01:11 PM

Who are these *horns* ye speak of? Seems like they be a very impotent FB program? :D

soonerfan28

6/18/2009, 01:18 PM

I would have to say that Texas has had much better recruits at the QB position and we have had better talent. What I mean by that is that if you look strictly at recruiting services then you would think Texas has had better QB's. Maybe it's the fact that the two highest rated QB's we signed didn't pan out for different reasons. I give Mack credit for being a good coach, but without Vince Young that Texas team would have been average. We have one 6 different Big XII titles w/5 different QB's. The comparison is not even close. Texas doens't take many risks when scheduling non-con games and Bob will, so Texas is always gonna be close to double-digit win totals w/good but not great teams. I will say that the 2009 Texas team will be one of the best offensively that we have faced since Bob and Mack have been coaching, but w/Texas' defense being decent this year then it will be a battle of our D-line against a Texas O-line that will be pretty damn good.

TheHumanAlphabet

6/18/2009, 01:19 PM

I would say this

Stoops seems to pull more from less talent than Mack.

Mack seems to recruit better players who frequently perform less than expected.

I don't know who is responsible, but he has to be in the mox somewhere.

He may actually have a coach in the head-coach-in-waiting defensive guy. We may need to start scheming for defense against the horns.

TexasLidig8r

6/18/2009, 01:21 PM

Everytime this is brought up you dance around it, run back to the fact that Stoops has lost all these BCS games and they mean more. Lid is the only one who has actually responded to my question in the past so here ya go,

Your coach has been a coach for 27 years, has had a slew of top ten teams and even a national title, but despite his recent BCS success he still has a losing record against OU and has only 1, yes 1 conference title in 27 years of coaching including 12 I believe at UT. Yet you act like he is a better coach than Stoops.

Mack's record against OU is 5 - 6. Mack's coaching journey was through the much more traditional route.. start at small schools, downtrodden schools and build them up and then move on. He turned Tulane around for the brief amount of time he was there. He turned North Carolina from an annual laughing stock to a national power.

Is he a better coach than Stoops? He is a very different coach than Stoops... excels at some things that Stoops does not... and is deficient in some things at which Stoops is strong.

Throwing away my biases I can agree that *Mack* is a really good coach, he is however not even close to being a great coach.

Part of being a great coach is knowing when to have a hand's on approach and when to trust your assistants. Most forget that Mack was offensive coordinator for a year at of all places.. OU. A great coach knows and recognizes his strengths and weaknesses ... and finds a way to maximize the former while minimizing the latter.

Do you really think without Vince you guys get to the natl title game, let alone win it? Hell no, and dont say that you almost won it last year with *Colt*, you didnt even win your own conference. Do you really think that *Mack* is that GREAT of a coach or did he hit the jackpot with Young?

You are asking the hypothetical which cannot be answered. If Vince had gone elsewhere, what other quarterbacks would have been recruited and played at UT? Also, whereas most OU fans seem to say, "It was all Vince," they contradict themselves by harping, "Oh.. he wasn't all that good anyway.. he was really a wide receiver... etc etc." Well, which was it? Most also seem to not know that there were 29 players on that 2005 National Championship team that are playing in the NFL. To say it was all Vince seems to be contradicted by the facts. Would we have won without Vince? Who knows.

Now, is Mack a great Xs and Os coach on game day? No. He trusts his coordinators and assistants and has some participation in during the game adjustments. He recruits extremely well and is getting better at that with each year and is a great representative for the school. He recently returned from a trip to Iraq with other college coaches in which they saw as many troops as they could. I've had the pleasure of meeting him twice... the consummate gentleman and a great ambassador for the university.

Dont go back to all the tired comparisons with Stoops and losing BCS games and Stoops only having one Natl title also, Stoops has played for the Natl title 4 times in 10 years and has 6 conf titles. It isnt even close between the two.

You can't argue with the raw data. And yet, the assistants Stoops had... Leach... Mangino the Hutt and his brother... were all very integral parts of your early program. Your offensive and defensive coordinators now don't strike fear into talented opponents. For example, when was the last time you could say that Greg Davis outcoached your defensive coordinator? Last year was a prime example of that though. Davis adjusted from the loss of our best tight end, went with a 4 wide set in the Texas - OU game, when Reynolds went down, play calling was adjusted to take advantage of that.

You have every right to be proud of Stoops' on field accomplishments.

I'll take Mack though... his big wins, his bowl wins, his recruiting, his outlook on the game and him being a great ambassador.

soonerfan28

6/18/2009, 01:21 PM

I would say this

Stoops seems to pull more from less talent than *Mack*.

*Mack* seems to recruit better players who frequently perform less than expected.

Please..........like who? Chrissy Simms. Nevrmind.:D

JLEW1818

6/18/2009, 01:34 PM

I'll take *Mack* though... his big wins, his bowl wins, his recruiting, his outlook on the game and him being a great ambassador.

yep take macks 1 conference championship in his history as a head coach. :)

TexasLidig8r

6/18/2009, 01:34 PM

Please..........like who? Chrissy Simms. Nevrmind.:D

I'm pretty sure if you looked, you would find on average that Stoops' recruiting classes were higher ranked than Texas.

JLEW1818

6/18/2009, 01:38 PM

Sam Bradford was a 5 Star recruit.....:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

soonerfan28

6/18/2009, 01:38 PM

Texas had a run of #1 recruiting classes. OU hasn't had any. Now are we talking about February recruiting or August? Because site like rivals have a ranking for when they sign and then they have another for who actually gets to campus. I would agree that if we're going by who makes it to campus then it might be OU.

Collier11

6/18/2009, 01:43 PM

I'm pretty sure if you looked, you would find on average that Stoops' recruiting classes were higher ranked than *Texas*.

According to Scout, Rivals doesnt work at my job for some reason

09- ut 7 ou 10
08- ou 16 ut 13
07- ut 3 ou NR
06- ut 3 ou 7
05- ou 5 ut 13
04- ou 7 ut 10
03- ou 3 ut 14
02- ut 1 ou 2

That is 4 to 4 in the past 8 years.

htownsooner7

6/18/2009, 01:52 PM

I I give *Mack* credit for being a good coach, but without Vince Young that *Texas* team would have been average.

Couldn't disagree with you more on this. That team had a LARGE number of NFL caliber players. You have to pick your arguments here. Either, Texas has great players and has underachieved/been outplayed by OU or Vince Young is the greatest human to walk the earth. I don't subscribe to the second, reading this sentence, it sounds like you do.

htownsooner7

6/18/2009, 01:56 PM

Brown w/o Young= 0 conf titles, 0 natl titles, 0 natl title appearances

Stoops w/o Heupel= 5 conf titles, 0 natl titles, 3 natl title appearances

Not even close

Whatever, dude. Anyway you slice it, Brown's a great coach. Carroll, Stoops, and Brown are all-timers.

tigepilot

6/18/2009, 01:57 PM

Collier11

6/18/2009, 01:59 PM

Couldn't disagree with you more on this. That team had a LARGE number of NFL caliber players. You have to pick your arguments here. Either, *Texas* has great players and has underachieved/been outplayed by OU or Vince Young is the greatest human to walk the earth. I don't subscribe to the second, reading this sentence, it sounds like you do.

That team almost lost to Kansas, only Vince saved them. That team would have been blown out by usc without Vince, you are clueless on this

Whatever, dude. Anyway you slice it, Brown's a great coach. Carroll, Stoops, and Brown are all-timers.

you are way off and seem somewhat like a Mack apologist

Must we really start a thread inviting that whoren trash here? Haven't we already heard all the stupid tripe they're going to say?

They are already here, if you dislike the topic so much go post in another thread, not that heard

htownsooner7

6/18/2009, 02:07 PM

"That team almost lost to Kansas, only Vince saved them. That team would have been blown out by usc without Vince, you are clueless on this."

Buddy, chill out. I'm very knowledgeable, I can assure you. Don't insult me. More importantly, don't speak so ignorantly. These are the draft picks for the year VY won and the year after. They had BIG TIME talent on those teams.

2007 (7) Michael Griffin
Aaron Ross
Justin Blalock
Tim Crowder
Brian Robison
Tarell Brown
Kasey Studdard S
CB
OL
DE
DE
CB
OG 1st
1st
2nd
2nd
4th
5th
6th Tennessee Titans
New York Giants
Atlanta Falcons
Denver Broncos
Minnesota Vikings
San Francisco 49ers
Houston Texans
2006 (6) Vince Young
Michael Huff
Cedric Griffin
David Thomas
Jonathan Scott
Rod Wright QB
S
CB
TE
OT
DT
1st
1st
2nd
3rd
5th
7th
Tennessee Titans
Oakland Raiders
Minnesota Vikings
New England Patriots
Detroit Lions
Miami Dolphins

JLEW1818

6/18/2009, 02:13 PM

the 2005 longhorns did not have a close game with Kansas... that was the 2004 longhorns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Texas_Longhorns_football_team

JLEW1818

6/18/2009, 02:16 PM

you cant say Mack is in the same group as Stoops and Pete....

Mack has only won his conference 1 time in his career as a head coach.... how many have Stoops and Pete won?

htownsooner7

6/18/2009, 02:21 PM

Jlew, you may be right on the grouping thing. Let me just say this, if Stoops left for some reason, OU could do a lot worse than bringing Mack Brown in to take the job. Not that he'd come, but just sayin. I'd take Carroll and maybe Saban ahead of Brown, but he's right up there.

Collier11

6/18/2009, 02:37 PM

TheHumanAlphabet

6/18/2009, 02:41 PM

Mack if nothing else, has done a fantastic job recruiting the big wigs in Austin. He is there for as long as he wishes barring some sort of nasty illegal meltdown...

Collier11

6/18/2009, 02:44 PM

And I would never honestly say anything bad about Mack as a coach, he just isnt an elite coach. If there were 5 elite coaches he would be 6

Collier11

6/18/2009, 02:47 PM

the 2005 long*horns* did not have a close game with Kansas... that was the 2004 long*horns*.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_*Texas*_Long*horns*_football_team

your link doesnt work but you are correct, it was Ohio St

TexasLidig8r

6/18/2009, 02:58 PM

And I would never honestly say anything bad about *Mack* as a coach, he just isnt an elite coach. If there were 5 elite coaches he would be 6

Who are the elite coaches?

1. Pete Carroll
2. Bob Stoops
3. Nick Saban
4. Mack Brown
5. Jim Tressel

Most people would have these as the top 5 in the nation.

JLEW1818

6/18/2009, 02:58 PM

yah the link aint working.

Curly Bill

6/18/2009, 02:59 PM

Most people would have Urban Meyer in there.

JLEW1818

6/18/2009, 03:00 PM

Who are the elite coaches?

1. Pete Carroll
2. Bob Stoops
3. Nick Saban
4. *Mack* Brown
5. Jim Tressel

Most people would have these as the top 5 in the nation.

NO Urban Meyer?? really...

1)Pete Carroll
2)Urban Meyer
3)Bob Stoops
4)Nick Saban
5)Jim Tressel
6)Mack Brown

Collier11

6/18/2009, 03:04 PM

Who are the elite coaches?

1. Pete Carroll
2. Bob Stoops
3. Nick Saban
4. *Mack* Brown
5. Jim Tressel

Most people would have these as the top 5 in the nation.

Depends on your personal beliefs I would suppose but to me it is all about Championships and consistency

I would put Urban Meyer #1
Pete #1A
Bob #3
Tressel #4

After that I think you have Saban, Paterno, and Mack, Beamer is pretty close but has never won a natl title. Seriously as a ut fan, are you not disappointed and surprised that you guys only have 1 conf title in 12 years? I would expect more if I was you.

Collier11

6/18/2009, 03:05 PM

Keep in mind that it is such a fine line and not a ton of diff between Elite and really really good, but there is a diff

CK Sooner

6/18/2009, 03:07 PM

Whatever, dude. Anyway you slice it, Brown's a great coach. Carroll, Stoops, and Brown are all-timers.

Mack Brown has all the Texas talent at his fingertips every year. I guarantee that if Bob was in Mack's position he would have way more success...

TexasLidig8r

6/18/2009, 03:23 PM

Seriously as a ut fan, are you not disappointed and surprised that you guys only have 1 conf title in 12 years? I would expect more if I was you.

Yes, absolutely.

And actually, this will be Mack's 12th season in Austin.

The meltdown against KState and aggy in 2006, the Chris Simms meltdown against Colorado in the title game, this past year's lunacy are vexing.

Expectations and demands for excellence are very high... as they should be.

JLEW1818

6/18/2009, 03:26 PM

I'd like to see him coach for another 5 years.... he claims he's probably done after this season...?

CK Sooner

6/18/2009, 03:26 PM

Collier11

6/18/2009, 03:33 PM

Yes, absolutely.

And actually, this will be *Mack*'s 12th season in Austin.

The meltdown against KState and aggy in 2006, the Chris Simms meltdown against Colorado in the title game, this past year's lunacy are vexing.

Expectations and demands for excellence are very high... as they should be.

Then to me that shows the diff between OU w/Stoops and ut w/Brown. You guys are left expecting more year n and year out, wondering how you went another year without any sort of a title, and how Mack failed to reach the conf title game again.

Ou fans have a coach that plays for a championship on average 70% of the time which is unheard of. Sure we would obviously like to have won a couple more natl titles rather than losing 3 in a row, but we also know that thats the way it goes when you are playing in the biggest games year after year. We are about 3 plays from being 3-1 in natl title games, even though we are 1-3 that shows me that our program is pretty dang close to being on top again while you guys are still treading water as an elite program.

htownsooner7

6/18/2009, 03:46 PM

This is what's so great about the 2009 RRS. Both sides are fully loaded, no excuses. If OU wins again, and I think we will, the gap widens in Stoops' favor. If UT wins, making it 4 out of 5, then it is what it is.

Collier11

6/18/2009, 04:01 PM

If ut wins this year I will be highly disappointed and disgusted

JLEW1818

6/18/2009, 04:14 PM

i kill someone

goingoneight

6/18/2009, 04:27 PM

It's not just a possibility for UT to win this year. By many people, not just Texicans, UT is expected to win. In three years we have not had any kind of answers for the improvisational quarterback, and that's precisely what Colt is. He's got everyone but Cosby back and we're still waiting to see how our playmakers recover from offseason injuries and still don't know if OUr OL is worth a damb. Eu contrair, our OL could be solid and yet again this offense would be SICK. Odds of losing a MLB and surrendering a KORTD in the same game aren't favorable.

This year's game will be won in the trenches and turnover margin. It always is. Unless Chris Simms is your QB and you can't take advantage of three interceptions.

I don't get where it is the opposing fans keep saying one side or the other has nothing to fight for after last year's BCS mess. If we beat UT and got stuck in the Tostito Bowl, I'd be pretty pissed too. As for us, the sting of the UF game ought to be enough fuel to fire you up, seeing Texas take the golden hat, seeing 45-35 banners flying over your games, watching replays of your games only to hear about Texas non-stop... I'm pretty sure they might have more than just a little pride on the line.

JLEW1818

6/18/2009, 04:45 PM

yah, we sure as hell can't let that little Frankie Muniz http://i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm474/jlew1818/tfhviocbfrankie-muniz-16th-annual-n.jpg

scramble in the pocket

cjames317

6/18/2009, 05:13 PM

Jacie

6/18/2009, 06:44 PM

What Sooners overlook when it comes to the sa*et fans love for Mack despite only one title is while Oklahoma was going through Gibbs, Schnellenberger and Blake, they had to endure McWilliams and Mackovic. Their program didn't sink to the depths OUrs did but by their (and OUr) standards, things weren't where they wanted them. Mack has turned things around for them. They don't lose to a&m, at least not every year, and they usually have a shot at winning it all. Yes, they underachieve more than a program with the kind of resources available to them ought to and yes, Mack recruits Texas very well, but then (except for John Mackovic) any sa*et head coach should. But overall the numbers do the talking and unless Mack goes on a multi-year streak, he will never match Stoop's in number of titles.

Salt City Sooner

6/18/2009, 06:52 PM

He turned North Carolina from an annual laughing stock to a national power
This just isn't correct. The only 2 true "laughing stock" years in that time occurred on Brown's watch (note, I'm not necessarily blaming him as unless the guy you're booting is someone of the caliber of say, a John Blake, you're probably going to have a couple of lean transition years, see Rich Rod at Michigan for example). UNC in fact, was in a bowl game just 2 years before Brown took over.

The Dick Crum era (bowl years indicated w/ an * ):

1978- 5-6
1979- 8-3-1*
1980- 11-1* (only loss was the blowout in Norman, FWIW)
1981- 10-2*
1982- 8-4*
1983- 8-4*
1984- 5-5-1
1985- 5-6
1986- 7-4-1*
1987- 5-6

Add those numbers up, & you get a .633 winning %, which happens to actually be better than what Brown put up in his tenure there (69-46-1, for a .599%), although to be fair, a large part of that disparity occurred in Brown's first 2 years there when UNC won 1 game each year. If you want to say that they were becoming mediocre at the end of the Crum era, then fine, but a laughing stock is a major exaggeration.

the_ouskull

6/18/2009, 07:02 PM

Recent history must be considered when discussing a rivalry.

If we are going to say that, since blah blah blah, OU has a winning record over Tejas in the RRS, then we must also concede that, since blah blah Mack has a winning record over Bob. Sorry, guys, but that's the breaks. I love Coach Stoops, and I'm stoked, year in and year out, that "he's our guy," but he's got to find a way to get over the hump again. It's not just the losses that irk me. It's the manner in which some of the losses have gone. I'm far enough removed from it now to see the Boise loss for what it was. Bullsh*t. I don't care if it was "the greatest college football game of all blah blah blah" or not. We lost to a team with a godd*mn blue field!

West Virginia? F*ck that. We got the sh*t kicked out of us by a QB that couldn't throw and a fullback because the running back was out. What the sh*t is that? There used to be a time when we either got dominated by, or dominated, an offense's best player. (Seneca Wallace and Chrissy come to mind... as does Rashaun Woods, on the negative side of things...)

Then, we lost our intensity. Our coaching staff had gone through enough turnover that there wasn't the trust and knowledge and willingness to question the big man that there was when someone else, another coach, was willing to step up to the MIKE.

It happened against K-State in the Big 12 Championship game. They butt-f*cked us in the mouth, and we smiled afterwards 'cause we were still playing for all the marbles... and we played balls-out against one heck of an LSU team, in their backyard, and were within Kejuan having longer fingernails away from tying that game late. But we didn't win.

I keep expecting Fat Bastard to show back up with Stoops' mojo any day now, 'cause, in the games that really matter, he's lost it. He's not "Big Game Bob" anymore.

Mack, on the other hand, has only gotten better over the course of the past few seasons. Yes, Bob still has the head-to-head against Mack, and yes, Mack isn't winning conference championships... but you don't hear anybody bragging about our 2000 conference championship, do you? That's because we won a bigger one. So, while it's nice to win the Big 12, there's a bigger one that matters a H*LL of a lot more.. and Mack's won that one more recently that Bob has. Period.

Look, I f*ckin' hate it too, but it's the truth. Now, having said that, I think that we're going to stay a bit more healthy this season (I hope) and force a few teams to douse their drawers... I just hope that Tejas is numbered amongst the martyred.

the_ouskull

TXBOOMER

6/18/2009, 07:08 PM

I admit it. The clapper is a good coach (didn't say I like him). Both are constantly in the top 5. I'll take Bob over Mack any day, but if I were a ut fan I would be happy with Mack. C'mon October 17th.

BHud

6/18/2009, 07:49 PM

Mack recruits well, and he's a stand up guy, like him or not. He wins, he finishes well, and he's won all the marbles fairly recently. He's on a good BCS winning tear.

I remember the DARK days, when Mack II was here....dear Lord. I remember suffering through Route 66, and other comparable games. Being owned by aggy.

I can look at the snapshot picture of Texas football today, versus the day Mack took over, and there is ZERO comparison. The man has COMPLETELY turned it around. He's down two games to Stoops, but has won 3 of 4. He OWNS aggy. Not much to complain about.

soonerfan28

6/18/2009, 08:12 PM

JLEW1818

6/18/2009, 09:39 PM

tigepilot

6/18/2009, 11:04 PM

if your gonna say 3 of 4 against oklahoma... then please say 1-2 against aggy

What he said. Seems rather convenient to insist on limiting the discussion to the last few years with OU but not Aggy.

Collier11

6/18/2009, 11:15 PM

*Mack* recruits well, and he's a stand up guy, like him or not. He wins, he finishes well, and he's won all the marbles fairly recently. He's on a good BCS winning tear.

I remember the DARK days, when *Mack* II was here....dear Lord. I remember suffering through Route 66, and other comparable games. Being owned by aggy.

I can look at the snapshot picture of *Texas* football today, versus the day *Mack* took over, and there is ZERO comparison. The man has COMPLETELY turned it around. He's down two games to Stoops, but has won 3 of 4. He OWNS aggy. Not much to complain about.

Really the only thing I ever truly get pissede with ut fans about other than they are all *********s is when they start talking like Mack Brown is some stand up guy and Stoops is not. Not saying you are stating this, just in general. If you(all tex fans) dont think Stoops is a stand up guy you know nothing of class or morals.

Just remember, you(all tex fans) guys wanted Bomar just as much as we did and it could have easily been you.

JLEW1818

6/19/2009, 12:21 AM

What he said. Seems rather convenient to insist on limiting the discussion to the last few years with OU but not Aggy.

for real!

BHud

6/19/2009, 01:13 AM

Just because I say Mack is a stand up guy, doesn't mean I believe that Stoops isn't.......

Really the only thing I ever truly get pissede with ut fans about other than they are all *********s is when they start talking like *Mack* Brown is some stand up guy and Stoops is not. Not saying you are stating this, just in general. If you(all tex fans) dont think Stoops is a stand up guy you know nothing of class or morals.

Just remember, you(all tex fans) guys wanted Bomar just as much as we did and it could have easily been you.

Crucifax Autumn

6/19/2009, 01:15 AM

Little Mack always stands up when Big Mac fondles kolt!

BHud

6/19/2009, 01:25 AM

Apples and Oranges. Mack has a huge overall lead against aggy, but trails Stoops by 2....2 is competitive. A +5 advantage (And were it not for the Bonfire tragedy, the series would be even more lopsided. No way God lets those poor guys lose after what they went through that week. One of the only rivalry games I just didn't give a rip about. Horrible, horrible day.)

Stoops doesn't have NEAR the head to head adv he once had over Mack. And using your logic, Mack still has a split with aggy, if we're using the 4 year measuring stick. And using THAT measuring stick, and only by using that measuring stick (the last 4 years), Mack is head and shoulders above Stoops, with a Big 12 Conf Champ, a MNC, and BCS wins in the Rose and Fiesta. (3-0 in BCS games, 4-0 in bowl games.) And a Coach of the Year selection to boot.

for real!

JLEW1818

6/19/2009, 01:28 AM

Crucifax Autumn

6/19/2009, 01:31 AM

That's retarded anyway...If we include A&Nutgrab in the equation, then what is Stoops' record against them?

Yeah...thought so!

Crucifax Autumn

6/19/2009, 01:32 AM

Has anyone mentioned that saxet sucks and the Clapper is a wanker?

BHud

6/19/2009, 01:56 AM

You obviously:

1. Are drunk again
2. Missed the OP

What has Big Game Bob done with all those Conf Champs? How many MNCs has it produced? Surely it's FAR more than poor ol' Mack, right?

BUT LISTEN DUMB ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LISTEN

STOOPS HAS WON THE LAST 3 CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO TRUST ME!!!!! BOB IS NOT LOSING HIS GAME!!!!!!!!!!! MAYBE YOUR DUMB *** COACH IS STILL WELL SUCKY??????????????? HAHAHAHAAHAHA

WHO IS THE LAST COACH TO WIN THEIR CONFERENCE 3 TIMES IN A ROW??? PETE CARROLL AND JIM ? THAT MIGHT BE IT!!!!!

IF YOUR GONNA DEFEND YOUR COACH WHO HAS 1 CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP IN HIS CAREER... GO DO IT SOMEWHERE ELSE !!!!

the_ouskull

6/19/2009, 01:56 AM

BUT LISTEN DUMB ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LISTEN

STOOPS HAS WON THE LAST 3 CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO TRUST ME!!!!! BOB IS NOT LOSING HIS GAME!!!!!!!!!!! MAYBE YOUR DUMB *** COACH IS STILL WELL SUCKY??????????????? HAHAHAHAAHAHA

WHO IS THE LAST COACH TO WIN THEIR CONFERENCE 3 TIMES IN A ROW??? PETE CARROLL AND JIM ? THAT MIGHT BE IT!!!!!

IF YOUR GONNA DEFEND YOUR COACH WHO HAS 1 CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP IN HIS CAREER... GO DO IT SOMEWHERE ELSE !!!!

If you're just repeating the same thing that you've said over and over again, what makes you think that yelling will get it across this time? You're Yahoo'ing about our conference championships because they're what we've won lately. Like I said earlier, nobody brags about our 2000 conference championship, 'cause we went out and got it done in the NCG afterwards.

Sure, winning that Big 12 trophy is nice; even necessary, to accomplish our goals for the year... but lately, it seems as if we've been content to stop there. The last time we won our bowl game was also the last time that we watched the Big 12 Championship game from home. Jus' sayin'.

the_ouskull

JLEW1818

6/19/2009, 02:03 AM

If you're just repeating the same thing that you've said over and over again, what makes you think that yelling will get it across this time? You're Yahoo'ing about our conference championships because they're what we've won lately. Like I said earlier, nobody brags about our 2000 conference championship, 'cause we went out and got it done in the NCG afterwards.

Sure, winning that Big 12 trophy is nice; even necessary, to accomplish our goals for the year... but lately, it seems as if we've been content to stop there. The last time we won our bowl game was also the last time that we watched the Big 12 Championship game from home. Jus' sayin'.

the_ouskull

b/c sometimes it takes yelling to get the point across..... especially when talking to a freaking longhorn......

and beer. ....

I'm just saying dude... if horns want to talk about success , recent , 5 years ago , 3 years ago...WHENEVER! I'm all for it man.... we won the conference the last 3 years.... so NO! OU has not dropped anything...... bcs bowl games? maybe a different story... but what have the horns done since 2005 ??? not win a conference title and 1-2 against the aggies.

Crucifax Autumn

6/19/2009, 02:03 AM

That's why we're gonna win it all this year. Pretty simple concept!

BHud

6/19/2009, 02:15 AM

And Stoops hasn't won a bowl game, and is 1-2 agaisnt Texas in that span. Point?

b/c sometimes it takes yelling to get the point across..... especially when talking to a freaking longhorn......

and beer. ....

I'm just saying dude... if *horns* want to talk about success , recent , 5 years ago , 3 years ago...WHENEVER! I'm all for it man.... we won the conference the last 3 years.... so NO! OU has not dropped anything...... bcs bowl games? maybe a different story... but what have the *horns* done since 2005 ??? not win a conference title and 1-2 against the aggies.

TexasLidig8r

6/19/2009, 08:30 AM

Collier11

6/19/2009, 08:31 AM

Just because I say *Mack* is a stand up guy, doesn't mean I believe that Stoops isn't.......

I pointed out in my post that I wasnt talking about you :texan:

UTgolfer

6/19/2009, 09:17 AM

Lid summed up best how most truly objective UT fans feel. We are disappointed in the number of conference championships but are happy to have Mack who has been a great ambassador for the University and has played a prominent role in the financial success of the athletic department. As for Stoops, I'd be less than honest to not admit that Dobbs should have interviewed him. He has had a lot of victories on the field and away from it seems to be a good guy.

IronHorseSooner

6/19/2009, 09:45 AM

Lid summed up best how most truly objective UT fans feel. We are disappointed in the number of conference championships but are happy to have *Mack* who has been a great ambassador for the University and has played a prominent role in the financial success of the athletic department. As for Stoops, I'd be less than honest to not admit that Dobbs should have interviewed him. He has had a lot of victories on the field and away from it seems to be a good guy.

Coach Stoops and Mack are effective, but in different ways. Coach Stoops is more of a "Coach's Coach." He's more in the mold of a Parcells or Belicheck. You either like him, or you don't, but, regardless, he's is darn successful. Mack is a "Player's Coach." He's more like a Dick Vermiel. Effective, but tries to be more in-tune with his players (insert VY joke here:D ). Coach Stoops is more of "Buck Stops Here" coach; whereas, Mack defers more to his assistants. Notice, when Mack is successful, he has a strong DC to defer. With both, and I just not saying this as an OU fan, Coach Stoops's style is built for longer-term success. I say this from my military background and studying leadership. Stoops builds is assistants and coaches. He has a system, and regardless of who his Coaches or QBs are, he wins conference titles and plays for MNCs. Mack's style is personality-driven. This means that he relies on specific people (i.e. Chizik, Muschamp, VY, Colt) to make him successful. Organizations that are built around a system and strong leadership are always better for the long haul. Personality-driven organizations fall off when that person/people leave.

htownsooner7

6/19/2009, 09:45 AM

I agree with Collier and most posters that horn fans are irrational, self-obsessed, and have WAY too high of an opinion of their place in the world. I just don't think their love of mack is crazy.

On the other hand, their opinion of Muschamp completely fits the mold of horn fans arrogant and blatant disregard of the facts. They are real fired up and so thoroughly convinced that he's going to be a great head coach. He's a weird dude and is completely OVERRATED. I've heard on multple occasions he "shut OU" down. If I'm not mistaken, Bradford set RRS records for yards passing and passing TDs last year.

Collier11

6/19/2009, 09:52 AM

I dont think their Love of Mack is out of line, I just think they need to be realistic about what he has accomplished

Crucifax Autumn

6/19/2009, 10:03 AM

I think if it waasn't for the history of whiny baby antics we'd be showing more respect for the man.

Collier11

6/19/2009, 10:13 AM

Most Def

UTgolfer

6/19/2009, 10:14 AM

He's a weird dude and is completely OVERRATED.

Overrated? As determined how and using what examples? And a few folks in the SEC would strongly disagree with you by the way.

TexasLidig8r

6/19/2009, 10:46 AM

On the other hand, their opinion of Muschamp completely fits the mold of horn fans arrogant and blatant disregard of the facts. They are real fired up and so thoroughly convinced that he's going to be a great head coach. He's a weird dude and is completely OVERRATED. I've heard on multple occasions he "shut OU" down. If I'm not mistaken, Bradford set RRS records for yards passing and passing TDs last year.

I don't know what Texas fans you have been talking to, but it isn't the ones I know.

I'm very much in the "wait and see" mode because.. he hasn't done it yet. Let's see (1). if he even will become head coach, (2). if he does, how well he picks up Mack's ability to recruit, (3). what coordinators and assistants he surrounds himself with (4). how he manages in game adjustments, (5). how he handles the pressure the UT alums place on him.

In terms of shutting OU down, OU had 21 points with 10 minutes to go before halftime... you scored 14 the rest of the game and 7 of that came because your punter strained his little vijay-jay faking like he had been run into on a punt. And that was with a secondary starting 2 freshman at safety and an undersized, slow senior at cornerback.

OUAlumni1990

6/19/2009, 11:03 AM

I don't know what *Texas* fans you have been talking to, but it isn't the ones I know.

I'm very much in the "wait and see" mode because.. he hasn't done it yet. Let's see (1). if he even will become head coach, (2). if he does, how well he picks up *Mack*'s ability to recruit, (3). what coordinators and assistants he surrounds himself with (4). how he manages in game adjustments, (5). how he handles the pressure the UT alums place on him.

In terms of shutting OU down, OU had 21 points with 10 minutes to go before halftime... you scored 14 the rest of the game and 7 of that came because your punter strained his little vijay-jay faking like he had been run into on a punt. And that was with a secondary starting 2 freshman at safety and an undersized, slow senior at cornerback.

Bottom line is if it wern't for the injury at MLB and those 2 gifts of roughing the passer penalties that kept 2 of your drives alive, last years RRS would be a big 'L' for you and you and every horn fan knows it, deep down............

htownsooner7

6/19/2009, 11:13 AM

I don't know what *Texas* fans you have been talking to, but it isn't the ones I know.

I'm very much in the "wait and see" mode because.. he hasn't done it yet. Let's see (1). if he even will become head coach, (2). if he does, how well he picks up *Mack*'s ability to recruit, (3). what coordinators and assistants he surrounds himself with (4). how he manages in game adjustments, (5). how he handles the pressure the UT alums place on him.

In terms of shutting OU down, OU had 21 points with 10 minutes to go before halftime... you scored 14 the rest of the game and 7 of that came because your punter strained his little vijay-jay faking like he had been run into on a punt. And that was with a secondary starting 2 freshman at safety and an undersized, slow senior at cornerback.

"in terms of shutting OU down," Bradford threw for 390 and 5 tds. We should have been more balanced, but your defensive performance was average at best. You'd have to concede that.

Collier11

6/19/2009, 11:18 AM

There are far too many shoulda woulda couldas in football so I dont deal with those, even when we lose. Having said that, If we dont give up that KR to Shipley its game over ;)

TexasLidig8r

6/19/2009, 11:31 AM

Bottom line is if it wern't for the injury at MLB and those 2 gifts of roughing the passer penalties that kept 2 of your drives alive, last years RRS would be a big 'L' for you and you and every horn fan knows it, deep down............

OH MY GOD!! Let's make up more excuses!!

ok.. let's play that game.

If Cosby had not have been hurt at the start of the Tech game which left him out of the vast majority of the game, and if Orakpo had not been hurt as he was being held around the neck in the Tech game knocking him out.. we would have beaten Tech and you would have lost the Fiesta Bowl instead of losing to Florida.

What position on offense does Ryan Reynolds play again? Your offense scored 14 POINTS FROM ten minutes left before halftime until the end of the game and one touchdown was scored after a bogus roughing the punter call.

You got beat on the field, your coaches got outcoached, you ran for FORTY EIGHT (48) yards on 26 carries! We took away your running game, we made in game adjustments that worked... your coaching staff did not.

At least show some dignity and stop blaming the refs, or the sun was in your eyes. Give some credit where credit is due.

UTgolfer

6/19/2009, 11:32 AM

"in terms of shutting OU down," Bradford threw for 390 and 5 tds. We should have been more balanced, but your defensive performance was average at best. You'd have to concede that.

So what does that say about your defense?

Collier is right...w/o the Shipley return the game very well could have been over.

OUAlumni1990

6/19/2009, 11:42 AM

If Cosby had not have been hurt at the start of the Tech game which left him out of the vast majority of the game, and if Orakpo had not been hurt as he was being held around the neck in the Tech game knocking him out.. we would have beaten Tech and you would have lost the Fiesta Bowl instead of losing to Florida.

Sounds like your good at making excuses too, that was very well rehearsed. I'll bet you rehearse that one every night before you go to bed...

OUAlumni1990

6/19/2009, 11:44 AM

Give some credit where credit is due.

Yeah, you should take your own advice. Give credit where credit is due. Give OU credit for having one of the best programs in the history of college football. Something that no horn will EVER do. And no, its not because we have players from Texas on our team. There is alittle more to it than that...

OUAlumni1990

6/19/2009, 11:48 AM

What position on offense does Ryan Reynolds play again? Your offense scored 14 POINTS FROM ten minutes left before halftime until the end of the game and one touchdown was scored after a bogus roughing the punter call.

He plays MLB on DEFENSE you moran. Your offense started moving the ball more by exploiting that position. I've heard even some horn fans admit this. Yeah, its fair and its all part of football. Luck is part of the game and ours was not nearly as good as your in the 2nd half. No, I don't expect you to ever admit it either. I still believe OU overall was the better team, just not on that particular day.

SoonerBacker

6/19/2009, 12:25 PM

I've got a couple of observations:

1.) "I'll take *Mack* though... his big wins, his bowl wins, his recruiting, his outlook on the game and him being a great ambassador."

Mack's true colors as a "great ambassador" came through with his constant whining last year. He lost at Tech, then went on a major political campaign to try to sway voters that the Big XII was in a 2 way tie, not a 3 way tie and that his Whorns should be in KC because they beat Oklahoma. Suddenly, his team's loss at Lubbock was forgotten, as were the Big XII rules regarding tie breakers that he had agreed to prior to the season. I lost ALL respect for Mack at that point. He proved himself to be nothing more than a politician. Sorry! That blew any argument for him being a "great ambassador for the game!"

2.) "...And no, its not because we have players from *Texas* on our team...."

Why is it that Whorns always like to bring up the number of players from texas on our roster? It is impossible for ALL players from the state of texas to attend tu. They also seem to forget that it took a native Oklahoman and OU All-American going down there to coach to turn their program into a national power. At least we don't have a staduim/field named after a tu player!

OUAlumni1990

6/19/2009, 12:27 PM

We could say the same for UT. Without OU, they would not have Darrell Royal, and not have the national championships that they do have. Works both ways...

TexasLidig8r

6/19/2009, 12:29 PM

He plays MLB on DEFENSE you moran. Your offense started moving the ball more by exploiting that position. I've heard even some horn fans admit this. Yeah, its fair and its all part of football. Luck is part of the game and ours was not nearly as good as your in the 2nd half. No, I don't expect you to ever admit it either. I still believe OU overall was the better team, just not on that particular day.

Is your sarcasm-ometer in the "off" position today? I am very well aware that he plays defense.

The point, obviously too subtle for you, was that your offense did not put points on the board when it needed to. You had 21 points with 10 minutes to go before halftime. You found the end zone only twice after that and once was as a result of a horrible roughing the punter call.

Yes.. luck is part of college football. The two "roughing the passer" out of bounds calls were questionable. The roughing the punter call on us was questionable.

Nonetheless, your "greatest offense in the history of God" could not score when it needed to... could only rush for 48 yards on 26 carries. That wasn't luck.. that was a defense that kept you out of the end zone when it needed to by making adjustments throughout the game. It was Orakpo embarrassing LoadHolding...

Texas came out in a 4 wide receiver set pretty much for the first time all year in the game. Your defensive coordinator did not make adequate in game adjustments to this offensive scheme. For all of Greg Davis' faults, he called a very good game.

So.. were you outplayed in the game? Were you outcoached in the game? or... and you can't really be saying it was mere luck that Texas won by 10 points.

OUAlumni1990

6/19/2009, 12:37 PM

Is your sarcasm-ometer in the "off" position today? I am very well aware that he plays defense.

The point, obviously too subtle for you, was that your offense did not put points on the board when it needed to. You had 21 points with 10 minutes to go before halftime. You found the end zone only twice after that and once was as a result of a horrible roughing the punter call.

Yes.. luck is part of college football. The two "roughing the passer" out of bounds calls were questionable. The roughing the punter call on us was questionable.

Nonetheless, your "greatest offense in the history of God" could not score when it needed to... could only rush for 48 yards on 26 carries. That wasn't luck.. that was a defense that kept you out of the end zone when it needed to by making adjustments throughout the game. It was Orakpo embarrassing LoadHolding...

*Texas* came out in a 4 wide receiver set pretty much for the first time all year in the game. Your defensive coordinator did not make adequate in game adjustments to this offensive scheme. For all of Greg Davis' faults, he called a very good game.

So.. were you outplayed in the game? Were you outcoached in the game? or... and you can't really be saying it was mere luck that *Texas* won by 10 points.

Don't you have some old lady to harrass? And take her social security check? Are you the famous "Lidigator" that works for a collection agency? Why can't you get a real job with a real law firm?

OUAlumni1990

6/19/2009, 12:40 PM

I can hear his head exploding at the other end of the internetz.

UTgolfer

6/19/2009, 12:44 PM

They also seem to forget that it took a native Oklahoman and OU All-American going down there to coach to turn their program into a national power. At least we don't have a staduim/field named after a tu player![/QUOTE]

So shouldn't you be giving credit for OU's success to Arkansas and Iowa???

OUAlumni1990

6/19/2009, 12:50 PM

So shouldn't you be giving credit for OU's success to Arkansas and Iowa???

Just showing you how retarded your claim that OU's success is because of the small fraction of Texas players on those teams. Something that every horn claims...

OUAlumni1990

6/19/2009, 12:50 PM

By the way, you need to improve your internetz. Learn how to quote properly.

htownsooner7

6/19/2009, 12:54 PM

[QUOTE=*Texas*Lidig8r;2633582]OH MY GOD!! Let's make up more excuses!!

If Cosby had not have been hurt at the start of the Tech game which left him out of the vast majority of the game, and if Orakpo had not been hurt as he was being held around the neck in the Tech game knocking him out.. we would have beaten Tech and you would have lost the Fiesta Bowl instead of losing to Florida.

[QUOTE]

Yeah, that's why you guys lost to Tech. You guys seem to conveniently forget that you were down 19-0, 22-3, and 29-13. Tech had THIRTEEN more first downs than you and TWO HUNDRED AND FIVE more yards on offense. I believe this qualifies under your phrase "getting beat on the field."

UT had the lead for 1 minute and 28 seconds.

Then, this happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEKjlqayLMA&feature=related.

Ouch.

OUAlumni1990

6/19/2009, 12:59 PM

That horn koolaid is some powerful stuff.

theresonly1OU

6/19/2009, 01:00 PM

Is your sarcasm-ometer in the "off" position today? I am very well aware that he plays defense.

The point, obviously too subtle for you, was that your offense did not put points on the board when it needed to. You had 21 points with 10 minutes to go before halftime. You found the end zone only twice after that and once was as a result of a horrible roughing the punter call.

Yes.. luck is part of college football. The two "roughing the passer" out of bounds calls were questionable. The roughing the punter call on us was questionable.

Nonetheless, your "greatest offense in the history of God" could not score when it needed to... could only rush for 48 yards on 26 carries. That wasn't luck.. that was a defense that kept you out of the end zone when it needed to by making adjustments throughout the game. It was Orakpo embarrassing LoadHolding...

*Texas* came out in a 4 wide receiver set pretty much for the first time all year in the game. Your defensive coordinator did not make adequate in game adjustments to this offensive scheme. For all of Greg Davis' faults, he called a very good game.

So.. were you outplayed in the game? Were you outcoached in the game? or... and you can't really be saying it was mere luck that *Texas* won by 10 points.

Funny; you can't seem to get off this so-called "horrible" roughing the punter call, but don't have a comment about the 2 roughing the passer calls that McCoy got when his little @$$ got ran out of bounds and the OU player tickled him.

You can't have it both ways, sport. There were bull$#it calls on both sides that had a BIG influence on the outcome of the game; you can't pick and choose the one that benefits your argument and expect people to take you seriously.

But then, you are a texas fan, so the likelihood of that happening went out the window long ago.

OUAlumni1990

6/19/2009, 01:01 PM

Then, this happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEKjlqayLMA&feature=related.

Ouch.

I love the look on Colts face------> :o

Priceless.....

theresonly1OU

6/19/2009, 01:06 PM

gEKjlqayLMA

In case you're too lazy to click the link.

TOUCHDOWN!!

OUAlumni1990

6/19/2009, 01:26 PM

I guess Lid found him and old lady to beat up on, he's gone :(

JLEW1818

6/19/2009, 01:43 PM

I was going to point out the flaws in jlew's logic... but he doesn't have the capacity to be objective...

Instead... and I can't believe I'm saying this..

ouskull... good, informative, objective recent posts.

I'm just saying, Longhorn fans claim stoops is dropping off.... but Stoops has won the last 3 big 12 championships.... please explain how that is dropping off ?

Mack very easily could have won the conference once the last 3 years! so does that mean he's dropping off??? not really, cause he's never consistent won the conference...

horn fans don't expect as much from mack, b/c he's never won a conference more than once.

TexasLidig8r

6/19/2009, 01:55 PM

Funny; you can't seem to get off this so-called "horrible" roughing the punter call, but don't have a comment about the 2 roughing the passer calls that McCoy got when his little @$$ got ran out of bounds and the OU player tickled him.

.
Go back and read my posts again Skippy... In fact, I did comment on these calls.

TexasLidig8r

6/19/2009, 01:58 PM

Don't you have some old lady to harrass? And take her social security check? Are you the famous "Lidigator" that works for a collection agency? Why can't you get a real job with a real law firm?

One.. I have had my own law firm for over 15 years. It's much better to be the head man who keeps all the profits the firm generates.

Two... I represent a large number of collection agencies in federal courts throughout the United States.. including at least one case in Oklahoma.

So, I defend companies who are accused of harassing behavior.

How is the pizza delivery business coming along Sport?

TexasLidig8r

6/19/2009, 02:00 PM

gEKjlqayLMA

In case you're too lazy to click the link.

TOUCHDOWN!!

How cute! You have to let others do your work for you.

Keep living vicariously through others.

SCOREBOARD!!

JLEW1818

6/19/2009, 02:01 PM

lol that Texas tech catch never happened!!!!!!!

OUAlumni1990

6/19/2009, 02:03 PM

How is the pizza delivery business coming along Sport?

I am a Mechanical Engineer and have been one for over 18 years, been doing great.....

soonerfan28

6/19/2009, 02:16 PM

I agree with Collier and most posters that horn fans are irrational, self-obsessed, and have WAY too high of an opinion of their place in the world. I just don't think their love of *Mack* is crazy.

On the other hand, their opinion of Muschamp completely fits the mold of horn fans arrogant and blatant disregard of the facts. They are real fired up and so thoroughly convinced that he's going to be a great head coach. He's a weird dude and is completely OVERRATED. I've heard on multple occasions he "shut OU" down. If I'm not mistaken, Bradford set RRS records for yards passing and passing TDs last year.

I guess only getting 35 points in the RRS was being shut down.

tigepilot

6/19/2009, 02:23 PM

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong on this as I don't dwell on things long enough to remember all the details this far away. My memory of the 'roughing the kicker' call was that I agree that it was NOT roughing the kicker. However, he did touch the kicker which is an automatic 'running into the kicker' 5 yard penalty (not a judgement call) which, as I remember it, would have given OU a first down anyway.

TexasLidig8r

6/19/2009, 02:49 PM

I am a Mechanical Engineer and have been one for over 18 years, been doing great.....

lol. that explains much.

Y'alls brains work differently than the rest of the world's.

UTgolfer

6/19/2009, 02:56 PM

Just showing you how retarded your claim that OU's success is because of the small fraction of **Texas** players on those teams. Something that every horn claims...

I beg to differ...Arkansas and Iowa deserve ALL the credit! ;)

OUAlumni1990

6/19/2009, 02:58 PM

lol. that explains much.

Y'alls brains work differently than the rest of the world's.

I get that alot
:gary:

the_ouskull

6/19/2009, 03:42 PM

I was going to point out the flaws in jlew's logic... but he doesn't have the capacity to be objective...

Instead... and I can't believe I'm saying this..

ouskull... good, informative, objective recent posts.

I don't know why you can't believe that you're saying that. I might be the smartest motherf*cker in here.

Longhorn fans claim stoops is dropping off.... but Stoops has won the last 3 big 12 championships.... please explain how that is dropping off ?

H*ll, I'M claiming that Stoops has been dropping off for the past few years now, and if anybody thinks that I'm a Whorn fan for saying it, I'd be happy to turn their *sshole inside-out using a rotation of my foot and a plunger.

Big 12 Championships are nice. They make one heck of a trophy, but, for the people who ARE touting them so highly, don't kid yourselves... you're only doing so because they're all that we've got to hang our hats on lately. I'd rather LOSE the Big 12, and win the National Championship. At this point, I'd rather lose the Big 12, and win our bowl game, assuming that it's a REAL bowl, and not some crappy non-BCS bowl.

There are arguments that can be made on both sides, and for those of you for whom a Big 12 championship trophy is a nice bow to tie onto the season, congratulations. I'm kind of a fan of winning games in January too, though, and we haven't done that since, what, 2002? Yeah, I'd say that Stoops has fallen off a bit as of late. I'm tired of choking on the Crimson Cool-Aid. I want RESULTS! I'm tired of watching our players (and coaches) get hit in the mouth in games, and lay down instead of punching back. I'm tired of the rash of injuries that keep sweeping down the plains. I'm tired of spending January through August talking about a f*cking LOSS instead of a win.

What happened to the "no excuses" culture that Stoops created when he first got to OU? I know that we've lost a metric ton (literally... thanks, Mangino!) of coaches from Bob's staff over the years, and that it's hard to maintain continuity in a situation like that, but I also know that, earning the opportunity to compete in big games is one thing; and WINNING said games is another, and it's what matters.

While I'm ranting, I'll go on the record... I'm tired of hearing Sooner fans brag about all of our conference championships. Great. We won them, we earned them. We should be proud of them, yes, but we should also go and win the game that follows. Stoops has been coaching at OU for ten seasons. He has won both the conference championship game AND his bowl game only twice. The last time it happened was the 2002 season, beating Colorado in the B12CG and Washington State in the Rose Bowl. THAT, ladies and gents, is a problem. Five of our last six seasons have ended in a loss. The one that didn't was the Bomar-tastic season of 2005.

(Borrowing a cue from one of the youngest youngsters around here...) WHY DOESN'T THIS PUBLICALLY BOTHER MORE OF YOU? Why are so many of you happy with the Big 12 Championship? If you're NOT happy with it, cool... QUIT BRAGGING ABOUT IT! Send the message that, as a fanbase, WE WANT MORE! We're Sooners, godd*mnit, and we deserve more! We don't deserve losing to the West Virginia's of the world.

But, before you Whorns out there start thinking that I've gone soft, let me save you some time, trouble, and public embarrassment... Don't. Just don't. What I'm doing, and saying, right now has nothing to do with you. This is about real Sooner fans keeping the yippy, yappy Sooner fans in line; the ones whose hearts are in the right place, but their heads aren't getting a tan. Even when I think that they're acting like f*cking morons (see also: thread, this) I'm going to defend them. That's what "Big Brother" does. It's the dormant *sshole in me.

Bob Stoops has also played for the National Championship 4 times in his first 10 seasons. He has played for the conference championship 7 times in his first 10 seasons. He has a winning percentage of 82%. That's rare air, boys and girls. We're lucky to have him...

...but that does not absolve him of the responsibility that he has, personally, to see to it that his team; OUR team, is ready to go out and dominate opponents on random weeknights in January the same way that we do on Saturdays in September. Bob... step it up, sir. No excuses, right? Same goes for our fans. Stop making excuses disguised as contentment with conference titles.

Whorns... pretty please with sugar on top, f*ckin' stand down. I'm kinda getting irked here. Don't make me spout off about your precious Mack next.

the_ouskull

soonerfan28

6/19/2009, 03:48 PM

(Borrowing a cue from one of the youngest youngsters around here...) WHY DOESN'T THIS PUBLICALLY BOTHER MORE OF YOU? Why are so many of you happy with the Big 12 Championship?
the_ouskull

I would have to say it doesn't bother me because I remember where we were at before Stoops showed up and we weren't close to anything but suckin a$$, so I'll take the Big XII championships and hope that the next time we're BCS bowlin we win it.

the_ouskull

6/19/2009, 07:27 PM

I agree with that, wholeheartedly. I was in school (the first time around) from 1992-1997. Needless to say, my season tickets weren't worth much.

But, at the same time, we didn't have any (many) unrealistic expectations then, either. We KNEW that Blake was in over his head, 'cause we saw it in EVERY game. Sure, there were times where our talent overcame his coaching. (Tejas, 1996, 'Cuse, 1997) But times like those were few and far between. Now, we're playing for it all on a regular basis, and it's nice... but I don't like the rest of the country to think "can't win the big one" when they think of OU, either. What I'M saying in all of this is, we have to remove the whole, "Our goal is to win the conference" mentality that Stoops has gotten the team, and now the fanbase, to buy into. Our goal should be to win every game we play, every time we play. Settling down once the conference is wrapped up is, and should be, unacceptable. I don't think that anybody would disagree with me on that... but it certainly does appear to be what is happening as of late, no?

the_ouskull

Collier11

6/19/2009, 07:58 PM

I don't know why you can't believe that you're saying that. I might be the smartest motherf*cker in here.

H*ll, I'M claiming that Stoops has been dropping off for the past few years now, and if anybody thinks that I'm a Whorn fan for saying it, I'd be happy to turn their *sshole inside-out using a rotation of my foot and a plunger.

Big 12 Championships are nice. They make one heck of a trophy, but, for the people who ARE touting them so highly, don't kid yourselves... you're only doing so because they're all that we've got to hang our hats on lately. I'd rather LOSE the Big 12, and win the National Championship. At this point, I'd rather lose the Big 12, and win our bowl game, assuming that it's a REAL bowl, and not some crappy non-BCS bowl.

There are arguments that can be made on both sides, and for those of you for whom a Big 12 championship trophy is a nice bow to tie onto the season, congratulations. I'm kind of a fan of winning games in January too, though, and we haven't done that since, what, 2002? Yeah, I'd say that Stoops has fallen off a bit as of late. I'm tired of choking on the Crimson Cool-Aid. I want RESULTS! I'm tired of watching our players (and coaches) get hit in the mouth in games, and lay down instead of punching back. I'm tired of the rash of injuries that keep sweeping down the plains. I'm tired of spending January through August talking about a f*cking LOSS instead of a win.

What happened to the "no excuses" culture that Stoops created when he first got to OU? I know that we've lost a metric ton (literally... thanks, Mangino!) of coaches from Bob's staff over the years, and that it's hard to maintain continuity in a situation like that, but I also know that, earning the opportunity to compete in big games is one thing; and WINNING said games is another, and it's what matters.

While I'm ranting, I'll go on the record... I'm tired of hearing Sooner fans brag about all of our conference championships. Great. We won them, we earned them. We should be proud of them, yes, but we should also go and win the game that follows. Stoops has been coaching at OU for ten seasons. He has won both the conference championship game AND his bowl game only twice. The last time it happened was the 2002 season, beating Colorado in the B12CG and Washington State in the Rose Bowl. THAT, ladies and gents, is a problem. Five of our last six seasons have ended in a loss. The one that didn't was the Bomar-tastic season of 2005.

(Borrowing a cue from one of the youngest youngsters around here...) WHY DOESN'T THIS PUBLICALLY BOTHER MORE OF YOU? Why are so many of you happy with the Big 12 Championship? If you're NOT happy with it, cool... QUIT BRAGGING ABOUT IT! Send the message that, as a fanbase, WE WANT MORE! We're Sooners, godd*mnit, and we deserve more! We don't deserve losing to the West Virginia's of the world.

But, before you W*horns* out there start thinking that I've gone soft, let me save you some time, trouble, and public embarrassment... Don't. Just don't. What I'm doing, and saying, right now has nothing to do with you. This is about real Sooner fans keeping the yippy, yappy Sooner fans in line; the ones whose hearts are in the right place, but their heads aren't getting a tan. Even when I think that they're acting like f*cking morons (see also: thread, this) I'm going to defend them. That's what "Big Brother" does. It's the dormant *sshole in me.

Bob Stoops has also played for the National Championship 4 times in his first 10 seasons. He has played for the conference championship 7 times in his first 10 seasons. He has a winning percentage of 82%. That's rare air, boys and girls. We're lucky to have him...

...but that does not absolve him of the responsibility that he has, personally, to see to it that his team; OUR team, is ready to go out and dominate opponents on random weeknights in January the same way that we do on Saturdays in September. Bob... step it up, sir. No excuses, right? Same goes for our fans. Stop making excuses disguised as contentment with conference titles.

W*horns*... pretty please with sugar on top, f*ckin' stand down. I'm kinda getting irked here. Don't make me spout off about your precious *Mack* next.

the_ouskull

To claim Stoops is dropping off is absolutely idiotic...every coach goes through peaks and valleys, hell look at Switzer for a while. Stoops is about as ****ing consistent as they come

meoveryouxinfinity

6/19/2009, 08:21 PM

What are you gooners talking about?

Didn't you hear? Texas has 2* Big XII Championships!!!!!!!!

Freakin' hillbillies.

the_ouskull

6/19/2009, 11:01 PM

To claim Stoops is dropping off is absolutely idiotic...every coach goes through peaks and valleys, hell look at Switzer for a while. Stoops is about as ****ing consistent as they come

So, if every coach goes through peaks and valleys, then how can you not call this a valley? And, since you HAVE to call this a valley, how can it not be a drop-off from the peak years of 2000-2003 (until the end) that he had? That's what a valley is, man. It's a drop-off from a normal position. Or, if you prefer, an elongated lowland between ranges of mountains, hills, or other uplands... I'd say that no B12CG AND bowl wins in the same season since beating Washington State would constitute "an elongated lowland."

You know, if you're going to contradict yourself publicly, you should try not to be rude about it. But, by all means, compare his work lately to his early work as a Sooner and explain to me again how he's not dropping off. I'll take your call off the air.

the_ouskull

JLEW1818

6/19/2009, 11:32 PM

because he has won the last 3 big championships in a row... who cares who beat who in the regular season... I'll take the big 12 championship every year, regardless if we beat texas.

so if winning the last 3 big 12 Championships is a drop off, what do you want from him??? he tries his hardest to win bowl games every year...... who else has won their conference the last 3 years, besides pete?

Curly Bill

6/19/2009, 11:36 PM

JLEW1818

6/19/2009, 11:37 PM

Honestly...count me in as another that says winning the Big-12 Championship while maybe goal #1 and nice and all that, is not enough when we keep losing bowl games.

I also agree that we're in a bit of a valley. We want out of that we have to win some bowl games.

but 99% of fans and coaches would want to be in the "valley" we are in.

CK Sooner

6/19/2009, 11:37 PM

but 99% of fans and coaches would want to be in the "valley" we are in.

99.9%

JLEW1818

6/19/2009, 11:38 PM

99.9%

yep.

Curly Bill

6/19/2009, 11:38 PM

Honestly...count me in as another that says winning the Big-12 Championship, while maybe goal #1 and nice and all that, is not enough when we keep losing bowl games.

I also agree that we're in a bit of a valley. We want out of that we have to win some bowl games.

Having said the above, there's no way I'd trade Stoops for Mack Brown -- an average coach covered up by the fact he's a good recruiter in a great recruiting situation.

Curly Bill

6/19/2009, 11:39 PM

but 99% of fans and coaches would want to be in the "valley" we are in.

I doubt 99% of fans want to make it a habit of losing bowl games.

JLEW1818

6/19/2009, 11:39 PM

but lets look at the bowl thingy...... name the coaches with at least 5 bcs bowl apperances... and give me their records.

Curly Bill

6/19/2009, 11:40 PM

but lets look at the bowl thingy...... name the coaches with at least 5 bcs bowl apperances... and give me their records.

I could give a crap what other coaches are doing.

JLEW1818

6/19/2009, 11:41 PM

I doubt 99% of fans want to make it a habit of losing bowl games.

I bet 99% of fans would want to win their conference consistently.

Pete, Jim, and Bob are the only coaches that do that.... and 2 of those guys dont have to play conference championship games.

Like i told a horn the other day... the Conference championships are very important to win, if you can't win your conference , your not gonna play in the national title game (usually)

CK Sooner

6/19/2009, 11:42 PM

I bet 99% of fans would want to win their conference consistently.

Pete, Jim, and Bob are the only coaches that do that.... and 2 of those guys dont have to play conference championship games.

Like i told a horn the other day... the Conference championships are very important to win, if you can't win your conference , your not gonna play in the national title game (usually)

That's what is funny to me. They make fun of our bowl losses, but the can't get to the Big 12 Championship game, it amazes me.

Curly Bill

6/19/2009, 11:42 PM

I bet 99% of fans would want to win their conference consistently.

Pete, Jim, and Bob are the only coaches that do that.... and 2 of those guys dont have to play conference championship games.

Like i told a horn the other day... the Conference championships are very important to win, if you can't win your conference , your not gonna play in the national title game (usually)

That's all well and good, but until we start winning bowl games to go with those conference championships, we're in a valley. To say otherwise indicates we don't think winning bowl games is important.

JLEW1818

6/19/2009, 11:43 PM

I could give a crap what other coaches are doing.

i agree ..... but you can't hate on Stoops when only 1 other coach wins bcs bowls consistently who has been to over 5, and they are always in his back yard.

but i agree expectations are high at OU

JLEW1818

6/19/2009, 11:44 PM

well maybe we should lose 3 or 4 regular season games a year, so we can win the Holiday bowl every year...?

i get what you saying CB, Stoops is in somewhat of a Valley..... but its a Valley that a lot of people would want to be in...... in my opinion.... bcs bowl......or Alamo bowl........consistently.

Curly Bill

6/19/2009, 11:46 PM

Would a lot of programs or fans trade places with us? Yes

Is losing bowl games year after year acceptable at OU? No

That's all I'm saying...

...and to try and sugarcoat that does not appeal to me.

JLEW1818

6/19/2009, 11:48 PM

agree.... side note.... what i did read.

we will be the football school of the decade if we win a national title this year.!

Collier11

6/20/2009, 12:06 AM

So, if every coach goes through peaks and valleys, then how can you not call this a valley? And, since you HAVE to call this a valley, how can it not be a drop-off from the peak years of 2000-2003 (until the end) that he had? That's what a valley is, man. It's a drop-off from a normal position. Or, if you prefer, an elongated lowland between ranges of mountains, hills, or other uplands... I'd say that no B12CG AND bowl wins in the same season since beating Washington State would constitute "an elongated lowland."

You know, if you're going to contradict yourself publicly, you should try not to be rude about it. But, by all means, compare his work lately to his early work as a Sooner and explain to me again how he's not dropping off. I'll take your call off the air.

the_ouskull

Skull, you try so hard sometimes to be the smartest person on the board that you completely miss the point. His Valley is that he is losing BCS bowl games, how has he not dropped off you ask? Cus since 2006 he is 34-8 with 3 conf titles. 3 BCS Games, a national title appearance. Since 03 he has won 4 conf titles and been to 2 natl title games. When you play the best teams in the nation you arent always going to win, unfortunately. As a matter of fact, I would say the complete opposite of you in that Stoops is probably the most consistent big time coach outside of Pete Carroll and Urban Meyer. So if you want to call that falling off then you sir are wrong. Being in a valley does not need you are falling off when you are still going to the biggest games each year.

And for the record I wasnt attempting to insult you, I just get sick of people who dont appreciate how great and consistent he is. If the worst drop off we ever have under Stoops is to expect 11,12, and 13 win seasons and 4 natl title appearances and lose BCS games, ill take it.

JLEW1818

6/20/2009, 12:08 AM

thank you

Collier11

6/20/2009, 12:16 AM

To add to that, if you were ever going to see a drop off it would have been 06', coming off of a 8-4 season, our star qb gets kicked off the team, we have a wr at qb, and Stoops leads us to another Big 12 title and another BCS game. Remember that year if we dont get hosed by oregon we might have had an outside shot at the natl title game again.

JLEW1818

6/20/2009, 12:26 AM

yup.. woulda had a chance to play Ohio State

BHud

6/20/2009, 01:36 AM

I pointed out in my post that I wasnt talking about you :texan:

And I appreciate that: I just wanted to make sure it was understood where I stand, in ref to Stoops character.

SoonerBacker

6/20/2009, 07:26 AM

I beg to differ...Arkansas and Iowa deserve ALL the credit! ;)

No dumba$$! Bud Wilkinson created the dynasty in Norman! He was from Minnesota.

Now, if you are too stupid to understand the point of my original post here....
well, nevermind, you ARE a Whorn! :texan:

the_ouskull

6/20/2009, 12:03 PM

but lets look at the bowl thingy...... name the coaches with at least 5 bcs bowl apperances... and give me their records.

EXACTLY! This isn't about other coaches; other schools... this is about OU, and what WE are, rather, aren't, doing... If a bowl game is a reward for a season well-played, or, with today's rules, half-well-played, then I'm tired as a fan of opening that reward; that gift, and seeing a steaming pile of unpreparedness in there.

We were a better team when we had less highly-recruited athletes that were able to make plays outside of the system and gave 100% on every play. We were a better team when we had coaches willing to take chances; bettors that guessed correctly once in a while.

This isn't about conference championships, this is about being a different team. In 2000, 2001, when you watched OU, you just didn't feel like they were going to lose, and when they (finally) did, it was sickening. Now, we're a team that is absolutely killing the regular season, except for Tejas, who is the most bowl-prepared team in the conference annually, but getting beaten in the post-season by teams that are more well-prepared... they HAVE to be more well-prepared because we out-talent that same 99.9% percent of the teams that we play, but we don't win 99% of our games...

I just want to watch us in a bowl game and, win or lose, FEEL like we were going to win. How many of you were THAT surprised when we lost to Florida? Really? I'm not asking if you were upset. I was very upset. I'm asking if you were surprised.

Now, think back to the Florida State championship game. All we'd heard for a month was that they were bigger, stronger, and faster. The same sh*t we heard leading up to Florida this year. Did you ever, during the Florida State game, feel like we weren't going to win? At no point did I think that we were going to lose that game. Can you say the same thing about our bowl teams now? I don't feel like we're ever going to lose another Big 12 championship game again... but I don't care. I want to be in a big (BCS+) bowl game and at least FEEL like we have a chance to win it, and it's been years since that's been the case for me.

If that makes me a "bad fan" or whatever, you're a moron. Being realistic is something that more fans can stand to do. I love Stoops being our coach, but I think he's slacking off in that one very, very major area. If it's the players, then he needs to start recruiting based on more than stars. If it's the coaches, then they need to re-adopt their "no-excuses" mantra and fix the sh*t. I've been an OU fan my whole life, and that will never change. I didn't start being a fan in 2000, either. I was here for the very, very worst years, and never wavered. Sure, I complained, but, when you see the potential for more, why is "good enough" good enough? It's not for me. I see the potential for more, and I want it. If that potential is no longer there...

the_ouskull

the_ouskull

6/20/2009, 12:08 PM

I just get sick of people who dont appreciate how great and consistent he is. If the worst drop off we ever have under Stoops is to expect 11,12, and 13 win seasons and 4 natl title appearances and lose BCS games, ill take it.

See, Colli, that's what I can't do. I can't "be good" with losing our bowl games year-in and year-out. I'll take that occasional 8-4 season if it means that we're... ah, sh*t, screw it. Lol. Just read what I posted above this one. That's my opinion on the whole topic. I'm going to go smoke some ribs now. See ya.

the_ouskull

Collier11

6/20/2009, 01:03 PM

I def am not happy with BCS losses, I do think things could be alot worse, we are pretty lucky

OUAlumni1990

6/20/2009, 01:12 PM

I am frustrated with the bowl losses. But the way I see it, football has just become that more competitive. And overall, Stoops is doing a pretty good job of keeping up. In 2000, nobody gave us that much credit, and it worked FOR us. Now, everyone knows who OU is and they work that much harder to beat us. We constantly have a target on our back.

UTgolfer

6/20/2009, 09:22 PM

No dumba$$! Bud Wilkinson created the dynasty in Norman! He was from Minnesota.

Now, if you are too stupid to understand the point of my original post here....
well, nevermind, you ARE a Whorn! :texan:

Familiar with the concept of sarcasm dip****?

JLEW1818

6/20/2009, 10:27 PM

EXACTLY! This isn't about other coaches; other schools... this is about OU, and what WE are, rather, aren't, doing... If a bowl game is a reward for a season well-played, or, with today's rules, half-well-played, then I'm tired as a fan of opening that reward; that gift, and seeing a steaming pile of unpreparedness in there.

We were a better team when we had less highly-recruited athletes that were able to make plays outside of the system and gave 100% on every play. We were a better team when we had coaches willing to take chances; bettors that guessed correctly once in a while.

This isn't about conference championships, this is about being a different team. In 2000, 2001, when you watched OU, you just didn't feel like they were going to lose, and when they (finally) did, it was sickening. Now, we're a team that is absolutely killing the regular season, except for Tejas, who is the most bowl-prepared team in the conference annually, but getting beaten in the post-season by teams that are more well-prepared... they HAVE to be more well-prepared because we out-talent that same 99.9% percent of the teams that we play, but we don't win 99% of our games...

I just want to watch us in a bowl game and, win or lose, FEEL like we were going to win. How many of you were THAT surprised when we lost to Florida? Really? I'm not asking if you were upset. I was very upset. I'm asking if you were surprised.

Now, think back to the Florida State championship game. All we'd heard for a month was that they were bigger, stronger, and faster. The same sh*t we heard leading up to Florida this year. Did you ever, during the Florida State game, feel like we weren't going to win? At no point did I think that we were going to lose that game. Can you say the same thing about our bowl teams now? I don't feel like we're ever going to lose another Big 12 championship game again... but I don't care. I want to be in a big (BCS+) bowl game and at least FEEL like we have a chance to win it, and it's been years since that's been the case for me.

If that makes me a "bad fan" or whatever, you're a moron. Being realistic is something that more fans can stand to do. I love Stoops being our coach, but I think he's slacking off in that one very, very major area. If it's the players, then he needs to start recruiting based on more than stars. If it's the coaches, then they need to re-adopt their "no-excuses" mantra and fix the sh*t. I've been an OU fan my whole life, and that will never change. I didn't start being a fan in 2000, either. I was here for the very, very worst years, and never wavered. Sure, I complained, but, when you see the potential for more, why is "good enough" good enough? It's not for me. I see the potential for more, and I want it. If that potential is no longer there...

the_ouskull

so what do you suggest???? should we get rid of Stoops and get a new guy... and maybe he can win a bcs bowl game for us???? i don't get your "solution".

I agree we are both true fans, so that does give us the right to talk and complain about things..... but what can we do, besides keep winning the conference.... and playing in bcs bowl and national titles... and try to win???

meoveryouxinfinity

6/21/2009, 09:44 AM

If anything, Stoops set his (and yours) expectations too high. When you win the Big XII, and the NC in your second year, anything less is a "letdown" or a "slump," whatever you are calling.
Bob Stoops, a coach on the decline. (went from undefeated with a NC ring to 2 losses each year!)
Mike Gundy, a coach on the rise. (he wins more and more each year!)

Collier11

6/21/2009, 11:07 AM

If I had to choose I would take conf titles over BCS wins anyday minus the title game

OUAlumni1990

6/21/2009, 11:10 AM

It really sucks having one of the top 5 winning percentages (if not the highest) in college football right now, way more big 12 titles than every other big 12 team, and that pesky NC ring is really getting in the way these days! ;)

Stoops can keep his job as far as I'm concerned.

JLEW1818

6/21/2009, 01:34 PM

If I had to choose I would take conf titles over BCS wins anyday minus the title game

yep that's what I've been saying for years!!!!!!!!!

People don't understand...... if you want to go to the national title game.... you have to win your conference (usually) unless your us or neb .. hehe:D

thats why conference is so important......

But seriously.... Stoops job is on the line!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ha

do i wish we were 7-0 in BCS games? YES

Collier11

6/21/2009, 01:41 PM

Bowl games used to be a reward for the season Skull, nowadays though if you are in a BCS conf and a year n and out Top 10 Team, BCS games mean little unless it is the title game

the_ouskull

6/21/2009, 06:49 PM

JLEW1818

6/21/2009, 09:00 PM

Collier11

6/21/2009, 09:45 PM

Okay, so hypothetical situation here...

Upcoming season: He beats Tejas, wins the Big 12, but loses in poor fashion in the championship game to a team that we probably should have beaten. Then what? Do you still feel the same way?

the_ouskull

IF we beat Texas and win the Big 12 I would be extremely happy, if we go to the Natl title game and lose to a team like Penn St or Va Tech by 20 points, I will be extremely disappointed and embarrassed and really would start doubting Stoops bowl preperation to a whole new extreme. Having said that, wouldnt you rather get there than go play Utah in the Fiesta or ole miss in the Cotton?

Crucifax Autumn

6/21/2009, 11:26 PM

I would...And I sure as shat hope we win this one to bookend the decade with Sooner MNCs and have an unprcedented 5 appearances in that game.

Curly Bill

6/21/2009, 11:29 PM

I'm all for getting to the big game at the end of the year. I'm also all for ending the disturbing trend of coming up short in those games. I want Big Game Bob to once again be Big Game Bob, and right now...he's not.

TexasLidig8r

6/22/2009, 02:13 PM

Serious question for sooners who have some real information and not the usual interwebz crap.

How much is Stoops involved in game planning, offensive and defensive play calling?

In terms of during the game, isn't it the offensive and defensive coordinators who call the plays and defensive alignments/blitz packages? And if so, does Stoops have a reputation for vetoing or overriding any specific calls?

Who makes personnel decisions both before and during the games?

Collier11

6/22/2009, 02:37 PM

I dont have any direct knowledge, from what I hear he is active in putting together the game plan but he leaves it up to his coordinators to call the game. If he wants to overrule someone im sure he does

BIG_IKE

6/22/2009, 04:59 PM

OK...some of you are going just a little overboard. I like Having Stoops as a coach. But if he left, I certainly would not cry if we had UT's coaching staff.
Say what you want about Mack, but if he did not have to play OU he would easily have been the Coach of the Decade. In fact he has lost less games than anyone this decade. Before I list everything two things I have to call BS on.

1. The 2005 Whorn Team barely beat Kansas. *Correction* They were beating Kansas 52-0 at Half time.

2. The 2005 Team would have been Average without VY *Correction* 22 people off that team play in the NFL right now. Most of them get more PT than Vince Young.

Now...say OU was not in the Big 12...

Texas would have played for the NC in 2001,2004,2005,2008...

Again, I'd rather have Stoops, but Since mack Brown has been at Texas NO ONE has won more football games than them. We are at 114 in that time frame and they are at 115. Boise State is at 115 too.

Collier11

6/22/2009, 05:00 PM

^^^ The KU thing was already cleared up, it was 2004 that they almost lost to them

JLEW1818

6/22/2009, 05:45 PM

^^^ The KU thing was already cleared up, it was 2004 that they almost lost to them

yep, me said it...

for those who are not sure... just google 2005 texas longhorns

tigepilot

6/22/2009, 06:45 PM

But OU is in the Big 12 and Texas does have to play them... just like OU has to play Texas. The Mack bashing was a result of a comparison of Stoops and Mack.

theresonly1OU

6/22/2009, 11:13 PM

How cute! You have to let others do your work for you.

Keep living vicariously through others.

SCOREBOARD!!

Just remember lid; no matter how much you stare at it,

This

http://i41.tinypic.com/2a61c9i.jpg

will NEVER equal this

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0diTb0D6GMdyu/610x.jpg

goingoneight

6/23/2009, 03:38 PM

Let's see here...

In 2006, overachieving OU played 13-0 BSU. While we should have probably played better, UT fought tooth and nail with 6-6 Iowa in the Lame-o Bowl.

In 2007, OU again took the BIG 12 and played a WVU team that was a fluke injury away from an MNC berth. While again, the Sooners should have played a little better, their injury and suspension-ridden team lost. Meanwhile, Texas played the obviously overrated Arizona State in San Diego. Nice win, but how does Mack fare in Bob's shoes here?

In 2008, OU admittedly lost to Texas. They still put up 35 on Texas. Not exactly a defensive performance that just screams out "dominant," Texas. We won out, and you had your bad game against Tceh that you all conveniently leave out. Our Reynolds injury was your dropped INT against Tceh. It happened, we lost. It happened, you lost. See how that works?
Now, I don't imagine I have to tell you to read slowly, most hornfans already do. So here goes. There is/was no playoff... and your 45-35 is just as valid as Tceh's 39-33. However, how did 65-21 happen? Because OU eventually rebounded from the MLB issue to prove they had just as much to claim for the BIG 12 South as did Tceh and Texas. The conference used an existing rule that took strength of schedule and who's hot into account. The narrow, but final order was OU, TX, TT respectively.
We can't help the rules, and we can't help that the BCS determines the NC, not the old final poll system. We can't help that Missouri backed into KC instead of a Red River Rematch. To borrow a Stoopsism, "it is what it is..."
Having said all of that about 2008, back on subject now... you drew Ohio State, a team that barely deserved the Alamo Bowl and again claim your win as proof that you've one-upped Stoops and OU. Oklahoma however, drew Florida. Saint Tebow and the next "Greatest Team Evar" eeked by us on their home turf.
My question is not do you think Texas would have done better. My question is... say we played ASU, Iowa, OSU the last three years and your good ol' Mack was in Bob's shoes... Injuries, suspensions, bowl locations, opponents and all... is Texas REALLY any better?

JLEW1818

6/23/2009, 03:40 PM

great post

Collier11

6/23/2009, 03:43 PM

I know for a fact that with Bomar kicked off and PT at QB, mack wouldnt have had the horns at 11-3 with a screw job loss and a game for the ages loss against a higher ranked and undefeated team from being 13-1

JLEW1818

6/23/2009, 03:44 PM

Does anybody know where Macks last conference title took place at? (besides 2005 texas) ?

(as an assistant) ?

hehe

Collier11

6/23/2009, 04:11 PM

Never

JLEW1818

6/23/2009, 04:14 PM

Never

right...

but my question is what school did he win his conference at (as an assistant), besides texas.... as a staff member? Starts with an O .... hehhehe

SoonerBacker

6/23/2009, 05:26 PM

Familiar with the concept of sarcasm dip****?

Funny coming from YOU! You couldn't seem to grasp the concept when I used it in my original post, a$$hat :texan:!

Salt City Sooner

6/23/2009, 06:04 PM

right...

but my question is what school did he win his conference at (as an assistant), besides *Texas*.... as a staff member? Starts with an O .... hehhehe
& also included the lowest scoring team of the entire era of the person who was head coach at the time........

the_ouskull

6/24/2009, 01:18 AM

IF we beat *Texas* and win the Big 12 I would be extremely happy, if we go to the Natl title game and lose to a team like Penn St or Va Tech by 20 points, I will be extremely disappointed and embarrassed and really would start doubting Stoops bowl preperation to a whole new extreme. Having said that, wouldnt you rather get there than go play Utah in the Fiesta or ole miss in the Cotton?

We lost to USC and West Virginia in GLORIOUS *ss-kickings. We also lost to Boise State, period. The Florida loss was, in my opinion, a "good loss." (As if there is such a thing..) And yes, I'm aware that the West Virginia game wasn't a title game, but losing ANY BCS bowl in that manner is embarassing.

the_ouskull

Collier11

6/24/2009, 01:26 AM

Getting beat by any team by 20 is embarrassing, it happens though. Maybe it shouldnt with a month to prepare, but it happens

JLEW1818

6/24/2009, 07:28 AM

Can anyone still remember the players injured for the West Virginia game?

me can

TexasLidig8r

6/24/2009, 09:40 AM

Let's see here...

In 2006, overachieving OU played 13-0 BSU. While we should have probably played better, UT fought tooth and nail with 6-6 Iowa in the Lame-o Bowl.

Should have probably played better? You were playing a non-BCS conference team!!! You backed into the title, got outcoached and outplayed by a team of smurfs with a blue field.

In 2007, OU again took the BIG 12 and played a WVU team that was a fluke injury away from an MNC berth. While again, the Sooners should have played a little better, their injury and suspension-ridden team lost. Meanwhile, *Texas* played the obviously overrated Arizona State in San Diego. Nice win, but how does *Mack* fare in Bob's shoes here?

WVU had played.. who all year? Going into that bowl, they were ranked 9th in the BCS polls... Az State was ranked 12th in the BCS polls. And. you should have played better? Your team wasn't prepared well and your defense was steam rolled by the run first, run second, run third offense of WVU. As for suspensions.... it was deserved. As for how does Mack do in Bob's shoes... history shows Texas wins bowl games.

In 2008, OU admittedly lost to *Texas*.
... you drew Ohio State, a team that barely deserved the Alamo Bowl and again claim your win as proof that you've one-upped Stoops and OU.

The same Ohio State team that was one fumble away from defeating Penn State and going to the Rose Bowl?

Oklahoma however, drew Florida. Saint The Right Reverend Tim T. Messiah and the next "Greatest Team Evar" eeked by us on their home turf.
My question is not do you think *Texas* would have done better. My question is... say we played ASU, Iowa, OSU the last three years and your good ol' *Mack* was in Bob's shoes... Injuries, suspensions, bowl locations, opponents and all... is *Texas* REALLY any better?

I wish you sooners would stop whining about having to play teams in their back yards. It happens. We beat USC, the greatest team in the history of God in their back yard. Deal with it. Injuries are part of the game. Your Reynolds injury is more comparable to Cosby and Orakpo being hurt and out for the majority of the Tech game. Suspensions? Stop recruiting kids who steal gas, or take guns to school events or kidnap their girlfriends and you won't have those suspensions.

For a little more perspective.

Collier11

6/24/2009, 09:48 AM

badger

6/24/2009, 09:49 AM

For a little more perspective.

Sooo... will the mods let this thread continue until October?

Collier11

6/24/2009, 09:50 AM

why not, no one is getting their feelers hurt

oudivesherpa

6/24/2009, 10:29 AM

I realize that this is a sightly different tangent but what has helped Texas football in the last five years has been the decline of A&M while at the same time the OSU aggies have imrpoved significantly with almost no impairment to OU. The cycle is about to change, OSU is peaking and A&M has hit bottom and should significantly rebuild to the impairment of Texas.

badger

6/24/2009, 10:50 AM

TexasLidig8r

6/24/2009, 11:45 AM

As far as the kidnapping of the girlfriend and holding a weapon to her, that has been proven untrue, nice try though

Collier.. that is just flat out wrong.. and you know it.

Nice try though.

TexasLidig8r

6/24/2009, 11:50 AM

OU athletics just announced a $3 million donation to OU academics (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=17&articleid=20090624_17_0_hrimgs558169). Just curious if *Texas* has a similar athletics-to-academics subsidy program, or if you athletics horde all the money.

From a UT site...

In the 2006-07 school year, UT Athletics contributed about $5 million to The University through tuition and fees, housing/dormitory contracts, and dining costs for student-athletes. Those figures rise between seven percent and 10 percent annually.

· In 2006, UT President Bill Powers was provided $2.65 million in trademark licensing revenue by UT Athletics to utilize on campus at his discretion.

· In 2007, UT Athletics paid $1.6 million back to UT administration in auxiliary overhead fees. Another $700,000 was paid for removal and relocation of 16 majestic oaks from the north end of Royal-Texas Memorial Stadium grounds to other parts of the campus as the north end construction project commenced.

· The Erwin Center, celebrating its 30th birthday this month, was renovated in 2002-03, $50 million of which was paid by UT Athletics. The Erwin Center is the only multipurpose arena of its kind in Austin, Travis County, and the Central Texas area, and hosts a wide range of popular events, including college and high school graduations, music concerts, circuses and other family shows, corporate meetings, job fairs, gubernatorial inaugurals, Presidential appearances and other major speeches (the 14th Dalai Lama and Nobel Prize winner Al Gore), state UIL boys and girls high school championship events, UT men's and women's basketball games, and NCAA postseason men's and women's basketball games. It also hosted a memorial service for former Gov. Ann Richards. The facility was built by The University and is now maintained and managed by UT Athletics.

· The north end project in DKR-Texas Memorial Stadium, which will be completed for the 2008 football season, will feature a new student center that will be open year-round, as well as a museum and research center to benefit Kinesiology Department students and faculty, a Veterans Memorial Plaza, and an 18,000-square-foot centralized athletics academic center.
"The renovations to the Erwin Center are being paid for by revenues from suite leases," Dodds explained. "The building was in need of repair and refurbishing. We expanded the concourse area, built new restrooms, updated the burnt orange room (now the Lone Star Room) and added more and new modern concessions areas."

Remember, too, the economic impact of UT Athletics-hosted events in Austin. Home football games attract the largest number of out-of-town visitors to Central Texas each fall, but consider the impact of the annual Texas Relays weekend, NCAA men's and women's postseason tournament games and matches, UIL boys and girls state championships and more.
"Six or seven times a year there are 80,000 to 90,000 people on campus for our home football games," Dodds said. "Now, while not everyone comes from out of town, there are a great many that do, so many of the hotels are full. Restaurants are full.

"The impact of our home football games to the area is well over $100 million per season. I don't know of any other single event that generates that kind of money for the area. There are a great many people loyal to UT Athletics teams. Our home football games have a huge financial impact for all of Central Texas."

badger

6/24/2009, 12:50 PM

Yes... but does your coach make $5 million* ???

*$4.875 million (http://www.tulsaworld.com/sports/article.aspx?subjectid=92&articleid=20090624_297_0_ARDMOR2277)

footballfanatic

6/24/2009, 12:54 PM

Okay, I'll take the bait.

You've asked two different questions. Is Mack Brown a great coach, and is he better than Stoops. Mack Brown is a great college coach. he has all the components. I'll spare you the records over the last ten years, and the recent success in bowls and against OU. Winning national championships is very hard. Being competitive every year is also very difficult. He has done both. Also, you can't assume that Texas always gets the best talent. OU's talent level has been higher over the last few years. Also, compare UT with Mack vs UT before. Not only has he turned around a floundering program, he has led the re-emergence of the school in all sports. Only a great coaching job saved UT last season. He is a great coach. Is he better than Stoops? I don't believe so. Discuss.

footballfanatic

6/24/2009, 01:01 PM

Also, Mack Brown has led a strong group of Longhorns into the pros. Despite the well publicized meltdowns of big stars, many, many lower-level players are starring across the board.

Collier11

6/24/2009, 01:10 PM

Collier.. that is just flat out wrong.. and you know it.

Nice try though.

why no response to the rest of what I wrote

OUAlumni1990

6/24/2009, 01:35 PM

Is he better than Stoops? I don't believe so. Discuss.

Mack vs Stoops

Head-to-head: 4-6 in favor of Stoops
Conference titles: 1-6 in favor of Stoops
National titles: tie
Overall winn/loss record: in favor of Stoops
BCS appearances: 3-7 in favor of Stoops

Id say its pretty clear, Stoops > Mack

TexasLidig8r

6/24/2009, 01:38 PM

Should have probably played better? You were playing a non-BCS conference team!!! You backed into the title, got outcoached and outplayed by a team of smurfs with a blue field.

They were higher ranked, undefeated, and we had a WR as our QB. Should we have played better, yes, that loss is in no way a bad loss like you are making it. Oh, we didnt back into anything, you guys simply blew it while we won the games we needed to win

So when you lost to Okie Lite in the early 00s, the bellyaching on here was how Texas had "backed into the game." Now that the roles were reversed, it is not looked upon like that? uh.. right...

Who had Boise beaten that year? How many Boise starters would have started for OU? It was to a non-BCS conference school! OU clearly had more talent. So, why were you outplayed? Why were you outcoached?

WVU had played.. who all year? Going into that bowl, they were ranked 9th in the BCS polls... Az State was ranked 12th in the BCS polls. And. you should have played better? Your team wasn't prepared well and your defense was steam rolled by the run first, run second, run third offense of WVU. As for suspensions.... it was deserved. As for how does **Mack** do in Bob's shoes... history shows **Texas** wins bowl games.

WVU was 1 loss from playing for the natl title, that injury that caused that loss was their Stud QB who went on to be a 2nd round NFL draft pick. It was only 1 suspension, we were without 5 starters I believe due to injury, you try beating a top 10 team without 6 starters

The Big Least? And.. they lost their head coach before the game! They were a two loss team coming into the bowl game. They did not play ONE TEAM ranked in the Top 15 all year! Their stud running back, Steve Slaton did not play the majority of the game because of... injury. Again, you had far greater talent than this untested WVU team.

I wish you sooners would stop whining about having to play teams in their back yards. It happens. We beat USC, the greatest team in the history of God in their back yard. Deal with it. Injuries are part of the game. Your Reynolds injury is more comparable to Cosby and Orakpo being hurt and out for the majority of the Tech game.

Say what you want, when Reynolds went out we were dominating your offense and were on the verge of blowing you out, much diff than if Cosby left the game, you beat us, it is over, we are still conf champs and you arent

Again.. what position did Reynolds play on offense? Your offense scored 14 points from the 10 minute mark in the second quarter until the end of the game and 7 of which game as a result of a questionable running into the punter call. Cosby was a huge playmaker on offense.. as seen in the OU game.. as seen in the bowl game... the same with Orakpo. I won't use that as an excuse though. Our offensive gameplan at the start of the Tech game was questionable. We lost. As for conference champs, the system did give that to you.

Suspensions? Stop recruiting kids who steal gas, or take guns to school events or kidnap their girlfriends and you won't have those suspensions.

We will do that as soon as you stop recruiting kids who have felony drug charges, really? Over 100 kids on campus, 2 or 3 a year get in trouble, you act like it doesnt happen everywhere to athletes and non athletes alike.

Ok... what kid did UT recruit who had a felony drug charge in high school? And let's see some cites to it. And please.. stop with the, "everyone does it." No, Collier... everyone does NOT do it. The Collins kid, linebacker from Texarkana, had accepted a scholarship offer to UT. He was indicted for sexual assault on a minor. UT revoked his scholarship immediately. He played for Okie Lite for 2 years while the case was pending.

As far as the kidnapping of the girlfriend and holding a weapon to her, that has been proven untrue, nice try though

In response to your request.

OUAlumni1990

6/24/2009, 01:45 PM

Also, *Mack* Brown has led a strong group of Long*horns* into the pros. Despite the well publicized meltdowns of big stars, many, many lower-level players are starring across the board.

Ok, so since you horn fans are so found of comparing talywackers, lets compare:

http://i42.tinypic.com/2dgnygy.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/28rnk2h.jpg

Adrian Peterson has accomplished more in 2 years than your best running back in recent years has accomplished in 5 years. Name a running back that Mack Brown has coached that is better....

footballfanatic

6/24/2009, 01:48 PM

Ok, so since you horn fans are so found of comparing talywackers, lets compare:

http://i42.tinypic.com/2dgnygy.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/28rnk2h.jpg

Adrian Peterson has accomplished more in 2 years than your best running back in recent years has accomplished in 5 years. Name a running back that *Mack* Brown has coached that is better....
You're just comparing two players. There are more UT starters in the pros than from OU. My post mentioned the failings of people like Benson. But UT players are starring at many teams. San Diego, BOTH Super Bowl teams, Tenn, NY Giants, Chicago, and many more.

Collier11

6/24/2009, 01:49 PM

In response to your request.

So when you lost to Okie Lite in the early 00s, the bellyaching on here was how *Texas* had "backed into the game." Now that the roles were reversed, it is not looked upon like that? uh.. right...

Who had Boise beaten that year? How many Boise starters would have started for OU? It was to a non-BCS conference school! OU clearly had more talent. So, why were you outplayed? Why were you outcoached?

Do you ever hear me laying out excuses, there is no such thing as backdooring when it comes to sports, if you win your games and another team doesnt, that isnt backing in. We are talking, not everyone else. Who had we beaten? That was probably the 7th best team that Stoops has had, not an excuse cus we still should have won, but we werent that great that year

The Big Least? And.. they lost their head coach before the game! They were a two loss team coming into the bowl game. They did not play ONE TEAM ranked in the Top 15 all year! Their stud running back, Steve Slaton did not play the majority of the game because of... injury. Again, you had far greater talent than this untested WVU team.

They were missing their RB but still had Noel Devine who has proven to be a stud, we were without 6 starters...this shouldnt be that hard to understand, it still shouldnt have been a 20 pt game but you remember the tailspin that took place after the failed onside kick, thats a momentum play just like you guys KR against us last year

Again.. what position did Reynolds play on offense? Your offense scored 14 points from the 10 minute mark in the second quarter until the end of the game and 7 of which game as a result of a questionable running into the punter call. Cosby was a huge playmaker on offense.. as seen in the OU game.. as seen in the bowl game... the same with Orakpo. I won't use that as an excuse though. Our offensive gameplan at the start of the Tech game was questionable. We lost. As for conference champs, the system did give that to you.

If you want to call that roughing play questionable then you have to say that those two roughing plays on us were equally questionable and did have an impact on the game as both were on 3rd down I believe(?) We were up 21-7 when Reynolds went out I am pretty sure(?), lets say he doesnt go out and you arent able to exploit the middle like you did, even if we only score 35 I dont know that you win, it was a big play whether you agree or not

Ok... what kid did UT recruit who had a felony drug charge in high school? And let's see some cites to it. And please.. stop with the, "everyone does it." No, Collier... everyone does NOT do it. The Collins kid, linebacker from Texarkana, had accepted a scholarship offer to UT. He was indicted for sexual assault on a minor. UT revoked his scholarship immediately. He played for Okie Lite for 2 years while the case was pending.

I am saying that players get in trouble every year at every school, most of the time it is out of the coaches hands, it happens. Yes, you can say it happens at every school cus I gaurantee you that you can look at each and every D1 school in the nation and they had atleast 3 run-ins with the law last year, athletes are people who make mistakes too, just like the rest of us

OUAlumni1990

6/24/2009, 01:50 PM

You're just comparing two players. There are more UT starters in the pros than from OU. My post mentioned the failings of people like Benson. But UT players are starring at many teams. San Diego, BOTH Super Bowl teams, Tenn, NY Giants, Chicago, and many more.

Well, you were comparing 2 coaches? :) You are over here on a Sooner board making the rules?? ;)

footballfanatic

6/24/2009, 01:51 PM

*Mack* vs Stoops

Head-to-head: 4-6 in favor of Stoops
Conference titles: 1-6 in favor of Stoops
National titles: tie
Overall winn/loss record: in favor of Stoops
BCS appearances: 3-7 in favor of Stoops

Id say its pretty clear, Stoops > *Mack*

Never said he wasn't. Saying Mack is a great coach--one of the very best.

OUAlumni1990

6/24/2009, 01:52 PM

Never said he wasn't. Saying *Mack* is a great coach--one of the very best.

But not better than Stoops....just to be clear ;)

footballfanatic

6/24/2009, 01:53 PM

Well, you were comparing 2 coaches? :) You are over here on a Sooner board making the rules?? ;)

Not the rules. Just the facts.

footballfanatic

6/24/2009, 01:55 PM

Here is big plus in Mack's favor: Since 2005, he has beaten Stoops, Tressel (twice) and Carroll. Has Stoops had the same success against this level of coaches in the time period? Again, not claiming Brown is better. Just showing how Mack is a great coach.

OUAlumni1990

6/24/2009, 01:57 PM

Here is big plus in *Mack*'s favor: Since 2005, he has beaten Stoops, Tressel (twice) and Carroll. Has Stoops had the same success against this level of coaches in the time period? Again, not claiming Brown is better. Just showing how *Mack* is a great coach.

Man you guys are so desperate to prove your talywacker is bigger than ours. Its really a pathetic display....

footballfanatic

6/24/2009, 01:59 PM

Man you guys are so desperate to prove your talywacker is bigger than ours. Its really a pathetic display....

Translation: You can't name better coaches Stoops has beaten.

Collier11

6/24/2009, 01:59 PM

Here is big plus in *Mack*'s favor: Since 2005, he has beaten Stoops, Tressel (twice) and Carroll. Has Stoops had the same success against this level of coaches in the time period? Again, not claiming Brown is better. Just showing how *Mack* is a great coach.

Ebs and flows my friend, from 2000-2004 Stoops was unmatched, from 05-07 he had some bad games, last year he had us back on top(nearly :( ) Just the way sports goes, his consistency and Macks are both big time, Stoops is just a little more consistent due to conf championships and making it to the big game

OUAlumni1990

6/24/2009, 02:00 PM

Translation: You can't name better coaches Stoops has beaten.

Does anyone really care? Besides horn fans?

Collier11

6/24/2009, 02:03 PM

They are both Great coaches as ive said many times, Stoops is a small step ahead because of championships, Mack is getting closer, Stoops will smack him this year, all will be back to normal ;)

OUAlumni1990

6/24/2009, 02:05 PM

Translation: You can't name better coaches Stoops has beaten.

And by the way, what makes you so sure that Tressel is such a great coach? WHO has HE beaten lately? You sure thats such a bragging right?

badger

6/24/2009, 02:29 PM

And by the way, what makes you so sure that Tressel is such a great coach? WHO has HE beaten lately? You sure thats such a bragging right?

heh... he also wins his conference more often than not and gets the bucks... the eyes... whatev to the title game often.

He's like the Bob Stoops of the Big 10 :(

goingoneight

6/24/2009, 02:52 PM

I'll take losing a BCS game to anyone anyday over getting destroyed by 5-7 Kansas State on my home field if you want to pick on our losses. As for that Ohio State team you tried so desperately to defend (but still failed), why don't you ask USC how special the BIG 2 were last year?

Still... BSU 2006 > Iowa 2006
WVU 2007 >>> ASU 2007
UF 2008 >>>>>>>>>> OSU 2008

and the circumstances surrounding OU still are far tougher against better competition to adjust to in these bowls. Enjoy your Holiday Bowl trophies, though.

TexasLidig8r

6/24/2009, 03:25 PM

Enjoy your Holiday Bowl trophies, though.

I so enjoy how soonerfans do not understand the irony of that statement... again.. that is the only bowl ou can win (and you had to use players that were ineligible to even do that).

Collier11

6/24/2009, 03:33 PM

And ironically enough the only Big 12 conf title for Mack

CincySooner

6/24/2009, 03:35 PM

Mack lost to Dennis Franchione.... Twice!!!

Checkmate.

Collier11

6/24/2009, 03:42 PM

and Ron Prince, checkity Check Mate

TexasLidig8r

6/24/2009, 04:10 PM

and Ron Prince, checkity Check Mate

But never to...

Les Miles....

or...

An interim head coach...

or...

the coach from a non-BCS conference school, both in the regular season and a bowl game.

:D

Collier11

6/24/2009, 04:12 PM

Les Miles has a Natl title, Franchione and Prince dont have anything

TexasLidig8r

6/24/2009, 04:24 PM

Les Miles has a Natl title, Franchione and Prince dont have anything

He didn't have them at Okie Lite.. all he had was a team not nearly as talented or acclaimed as Stoops' team.

Collier11

6/24/2009, 04:31 PM

And in 2000 Mack got blown out by a team full of John Blakes out of shape cast offs, a juco qb, all being coached by an Ex-Def coord who went 7-5 the year before. See how that works...I would say that Les Miles has proven to be a much better coach than Prince, Fran, or whoever coached Stanford back when they beat you

Collier11

6/24/2009, 04:35 PM

And I found this little dandy of a quote regarding Mack Brown before the recent bowl winning streak

"Although Brown consistently led the Longhorns to a bowl game to cap off each season, his first six years he was not able to lead them to a Bowl Championship Series game, having to settle each year for the Holiday Bowl or Cotton Bowl. His record in these games was 3 and 3, with two of the 3 losses coming at the hands of supposedly inferior teams as judged by the rankings headed into the games."

It proves that coaching is tough biz, it proves that all coaches go through ups and downs...remember Stoops was 3-1 in bowl games at one point. At some point he will win 3 out of 4 and texas will do the opposite, thats the way it goes, to say any diff is not accurate

TexasLidig8r

6/24/2009, 04:51 PM

And I found this little dandy of a quote regarding *Mack* Brown before the recent bowl winning streak

"Although Brown consistently led the Long*horns* to a bowl game to cap off each season, his first six years he was not able to lead them to a Bowl Championship Series game, having to settle each year for the Holiday Bowl or Cotton Bowl. His record in these games was 3 and 3, with two of the 3 losses coming at the hands of supposedly inferior teams as judged by the rankings headed into the games."

It proves that coaching is tough biz, it proves that all coaches go through ups and downs...remember Stoops was 3-1 in bowl games at one point. At some point he will win 3 out of 4 and *Texas* will do the opposite, thats the way it goes, to say any diff is not accurate

You've proven a point you may not have been intending to prove.

Your stats demonstrate that Mack is improving and growing as a coach with each year... and Stoops.. well... appears to be leading your team to being known as the Buffalo Bills of college football.

starclassic tama

6/24/2009, 04:56 PM

stoops' dominance over texas, leading to the little brother syndrome we have dealt with from OSU over the years can be proven by this simple fact: lidig8r is stalking an OU board trying to reach for reasons why texas is better, while all of us are sitting ON OUR OWN BOARD laughing and making fun of your feeble attempts to compare stoops and mack brown. not to mention your pathetic little rants on OU taking a player like chaisson when you are a fan of TEXAS. proof that OU plays for championships while texas and OSU play to beat OU.

tigepilot

6/24/2009, 05:05 PM

TexasLidig8r

6/24/2009, 05:22 PM

stoops' dominance over *Texas*, leading to the little brother syndrome we have dealt with from OSU over the years can be proven by this simple fact: lidig8r is stalking an OU board trying to reach for reasons why *Texas* is better, while all of us are sitting ON OUR OWN BOARD laughing and making fun of your feeble attempts to compare stoops and *Mack* brown. not to mention your pathetic little rants on OU taking a player like chaisson when you are a fan of *Texas*. proof that OU plays for championships while *Texas* and OSU play to beat OU.

The utter lack of reasoning and logic of this post is overwhelming.

I did not start this thread. But, I certainly did pick up the mantle when it was thrown down.

As for the "pathetic little rants" on players like Chaisson, it was amazing that the fanbase for OU, almost without exception, supported this kid merely because he can play, with the universal cry of "I trust Stoops."

I trust very few people and in positions that Mack and Stoops occupy, demand for accountability and responsibility should be the hallmark.. and not the exception.

Now.. Collier and I are having a nice, intelligent, non-confrontational debate.. try to keep up.

Collier11

6/24/2009, 06:04 PM

You've proven a point you may not have been intending to prove.

Your stats demonstrate that *Mack* is improving and growing as a coach with each year... and Stoops.. well... appears to be leading your team to being known as the Buffalo Bills of college football.

No it proves that coaching is up and down, even for the best. We just played for the natl title, tell me again how many Mack has played in, I believe it is just the 1

There are two stigmas we can talk about;
When will stoops win the big game again

When will mack make it to the big game again without VY

sooner ngintunr

6/24/2009, 06:10 PM

There are two stigmas we can talk about;
When will stoops win the big game again

When will *Mack* make it to the big game again without VY

1st question, this year.
2nd question, not this year.

Next.:D

SoonerBacker

6/24/2009, 06:46 PM

The utter lack of reasoning and logic of this post is overwhelming.

I did not start this thread. But, I certainly did pick up the mantle when it was thrown down.

As for the "pathetic little rants" on players like Chaisson, it was amazing that the fanbase for OU, almost without exception, supported this kid merely because he can play, with the universal cry of "I trust Stoops."

I trust very few people and in positions that *Mack* and Stoops occupy, demand for accountability and responsibility should be the hallmark.. and not the exception.

Now.. Collier and I are having a nice, intelligent, non-confrontational debate.. try to keep up.

Let's not attempt to come across as though Mack is on superior moral grounds when it comes to giving players, even those involved in legal problems, another chance. Stoops has thrown prominent players off of his team when they violated rules/laws. And it was just 2 years ago that the longhorns were having all sorts of problems with players who were getting themselves arrested, yet I don't recall any of them being thrown off of the team.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/stories/100507dnspoutarrests.3829d60.html

From the article:
"Oklahoma has had 13 players and two recruits arrested since Bob Stoops' 1999 hiring, seven in the last two years. Of the 17 Texas player arrests since Mr. Brown's 1998 arrival, eight have occurred since the January 2006 national title-game victory."
(October 5, 2007)

As the above article points out, both programs have had more than their share of players with legal problems. As to Chaisson? I wish we had not taken him. I think it may prove to have been a mistake. However, I also have to believe that Stoops has made it prefectly clear that this is a second chance for the young man. If he screws up while at OU, he will be gone. Stoops has already proven that through his actions in the past.

I'm just saying, I don't think that either program is in a position to call the other out on this particular point.

JLEW1818

6/24/2009, 07:04 PM

Lid since 2005, when was macks last conference title................ what conference and what school and what coach was he under?

Collier11

6/24/2009, 10:16 PM

Let's not attempt to come across as though *Mack* is on superior moral grounds when it comes to giving players, even those involved in legal problems, another chance. Stoops has thrown prominent players off of his team when they violated rules/laws. And it was just 2 years ago that the long*horns* were having all sorts of problems with players who were getting themselves arrested, yet I don't recall any of them being thrown off of the team.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/stories/100507dnspoutarrests.3829d60.html

From the article:
"Oklahoma has had 13 players and two recruits arrested since Bob Stoops' 1999 hiring, seven in the last two years. Of the 17 *Texas* player arrests since Mr. Brown's 1998 arrival, eight have occurred since the January 2006 national title-game victory."
(October 5, 2007)

As the above article points out, both programs have had more than their share of players with legal problems. As to Chaisson? I wish we had not taken him. I think it may prove to have been a mistake. However, I also have to believe that Stoops has made it prefectly clear that this is a second chance for the young man. If he screws up while at OU, he will be gone. Stoops has already proven that through his actions in the past.

I'm just saying, I don't think that either program is in a position to call the other out on this particular point.

ahh Lid, you cant pull the moral high ground BS anymore :P

TexasLidig8r

6/25/2009, 08:06 AM

Lid since 2005, when was *Mack*s last conference title................ what conference and what school and what coach was he under?

jlew.. since ever.. when was the last time Stoops won a national championship with only his only players?

badger

6/25/2009, 08:12 AM

When's the last time Macc Brown won a conference championship with only his own players? :D

JLEW1818

6/25/2009, 08:40 AM

jlew.. since ever.. when was the last time Stoops won a national championship with only his only players?

me just wanna hear you say who mack coached under....

TexasLidig8r

6/25/2009, 09:46 AM

badger

6/25/2009, 09:49 AM

n

hmm...

_n_

Hey, it kind of looks like an upside down wh0rn now :D

htownsooner7

6/25/2009, 11:21 AM

This is all a very interesting conversation seeing as how Texas lost the national championship in baseball last year. Are we now in position to say that Garrido embarrased the conference by losing the championship when he was the number 1 team? I would say, absolutely not. You don't get to talk when you don't get there.

htownsooner7

6/25/2009, 11:34 AM

Meant last night.

OUAlumni1990

6/25/2009, 12:47 PM

Looks like the whorns testostrone levels have taken a big hit since last nights bb game against LSU. LOL. They ain't as cocky today as yesterday...

And you KNOW they are at rock bottom when they start pulling out the "when was the last time you won an NC with your own players" BS. LOL, I'm loving it...

badger

6/25/2009, 12:54 PM

This is all a very interesting conversation seeing as how *Texas* lost the national championship in baseball last year. Are we now in position to say that Garrido embarrased the conference by losing the championship when he was the number 1 team? I would say, absolutely not. You don't get to talk when you don't get there.

I would never take the side of Texaz, because they suck and all, but baseball is quite different than football, in that baseball has a crazy extensive playoff system with regionals, super regionals and a world series that ends with two teams in a best of 3 series.

Texaz didn't embarrass the conference by losing... they just lost. Maybe they feel embarrassed for themselves?

Collier11

6/25/2009, 01:09 PM

I would never root for Texas in any situation, as much as I hate LSU I was hoping they would win

Collier11

6/25/2009, 01:10 PM

I would never take the side of Texaz, because they suck and all, but baseball is quite different than football, in that baseball has a crazy extensive playoff system with regionals, super regionals and a world series that ends with two teams in a best of 3 series.

Texaz didn't embarrass the conference by losing... they just lost. Maybe they feel embarrassed for themselves?

^^^ Missed the point

badger

6/25/2009, 01:14 PM

^^^ Missed the point

Nah, I didn't miss the point, which is to bash Texaz :D

htownsooner7

6/25/2009, 01:18 PM

Nah, I didn't miss the point, which is to bash Texaz :D

Thanks Collier, yes Badger, you missed the point.

TexasLidig8r

6/25/2009, 01:41 PM

And you KNOW they are at rock bottom when they start pulling out the "when was the last time you won an NC with your own players" BS. LOL, I'm loving it...

First.. you got the statement incorrect. It more accurately reads, "Bob Stoops has never won a national championship with his own players."

Second.. that is hardly rock bottom but is an undeniable fact that no sooner will address or ever admit the relevance or accuracy.

Third.. unless a coach calls both the offensive and defensive plays and exclusively makes the calls on substitution patterns during a game, I believe there is far too much emphasis on the "head coach." If your coordinators succ donkey testicles, and your position coaches cannot coach up the talent on campus... you can be the reincarnation of a combination of Tom Landy, Vince Lombardi and Bear "Holy God" Bryant... and you still won't win consistently.

JLEW1818

6/25/2009, 02:15 PM

First.. you got the statement incorrect. It more accurately reads, "Bob Stoops has never won a national championship with his own players."

Second.. that is hardly rock bottom but is an undeniable fact that no sooner will address or ever admit the relevance or accuracy.

Third.. unless a coach calls both the offensive and defensive plays and exclusively makes the calls on substitution patterns during a game, I believe there is far too much emphasis on the "head coach." If your coordinators succ donkey testicles, and your position coaches cannot coach up the talent on campus... you can be the reincarnation of a combination of Tom Landy, Vince Lombardi and Bear "Holy God" Bryant... and you still won't win consistently.

is that why Mack has only won his conference once as a head coach?: bad assistants?

htownsooner7

6/25/2009, 02:18 PM

Lid,

I'd like to make things simple in understanding your position. Stoops and Brown have both been in the the Big 12 since 1999. That is 10 seasons. Since that date, in your opinion, which program is more successful? Same conference, same teams, same years, same facilities and they played head to head every year. Who has done a better job as head coach? If you don't say Bob Stoops, your criteria for judging is extreme at best, at worst, its completely unjustified. If you say Bob Stoops, you'll look reasonable.

CincySooner

6/25/2009, 02:23 PM

jlew.. since ever.. when was the last time Stoops won a national championship with only his only players?

last I checked, everyone on the team got a ring... not just the ones that Stoops recruited.

Collier11

6/25/2009, 02:46 PM

htownsooner7

6/25/2009, 02:59 PM

My point was that they have both been in the conference for 10 years, so that's the starting point. Everyone's on even footing to start.

OUAlumni1990

6/25/2009, 03:54 PM

last I checked, everyone on the team got a ring... not just the ones that Stoops recruited.

You got it. And who really cares who recruited the players? Apparently Lid does...

OUAlumni1990

6/25/2009, 03:56 PM

jlew.. since ever.. when was the last time Stoops won a national championship with only his only players?

When was the last time that SAXET won an NC without a former SOONER coaching the team? We can play this game too...

TexasLidig8r

6/25/2009, 04:52 PM

When was the last time that SAXET won an NC without a former SOONER coaching the team? We can play this game too...

yeah yeah. when was the last time OU won a national championship without many, many Texans on their team.. blah blah blah..

please get some new material..

or go spit some "chaw," drink some Pabst Blue Ribbon beer and leave copious negspek (as if that means anything) like the rest of those mental midgets in the posse.

TexasLidig8r

6/25/2009, 05:13 PM

Lid,

I'd like to make things simple in understanding your position. Stoops and Brown have both been in the the Big 12 since 1999.

Mack has been at Texas since 1998.

That is 10 seasons. Since that date, in your opinion, which program is more successful? Same conference, same teams, same years, same facilities and they played head to head every year.

Using conference titles, OU. Using national championships as the criteria... even (except Mack did it with players that he exclusively recruited)... number of overall wins... I believe OU has maybe 1 more win... winning percentage... Texas.. head to head with these coaches.. OU is 6 - 4. Bowl victories... Texas... BCS victories... Texas.

Who has done a better job as head coach? If you don't say Bob Stoops, your criteria for judging is extreme at best, at worst, its completely unjustified. If you say Bob Stoops, you'll look reasonable.

Who has done a better job as head coach? During the first part of the decade, definitely Stoops. During the latter half of the decade, Mack.

And, I have never said that Stoops isn't a great coach.. he is. I believe he is a perfect fit for OU and its fan base.