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OklahomaTuba
6/10/2009, 10:34 AM
Obama Announces Push for PAYGO
President Obama today announced a proposal to make "pay as you go" budgeting rules -- known as PAYGO -- law.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2009/06/09/obama_announces_push_for_paygo.html?wprss=44

Our paychecks are about to get A LOT smaller.

Thanks Obama!!!

Sooner04
6/10/2009, 10:58 AM
What do you do for a living, Tuba?

Jello Biafra
6/10/2009, 11:00 AM
blah....someone read this and give the cliff notes version...i can't understand what he's saying when he spends the first 3 minutes blowing everyone in the room...

yermom
6/10/2009, 11:35 AM
What do you do for a living, Tuba?

i'm thinking oil lobbyist

OklahomaTuba
6/10/2009, 11:37 AM
What do you do for a living, Tuba?

Community Organizer.

OklahomaTuba
6/10/2009, 11:48 AM
blah....someone read this and give the cliff notes version...i can't understand what he's saying when he spends the first 3 minutes blowing everyone in the room...

Basically, its Obama saying that since he just quadrupled the national debt he is now going to figure out how to pay for it all his reckless spending. (or rather WE are.)

So first on the chopping block, the military (of course).

SO enjoy you tax increases! They are coming!!

KC//CRIMSON
6/10/2009, 11:49 AM
Community Organizer.


You're lucky if you leave the house with the right shoe on the right foot.

OklahomaTuba
6/10/2009, 11:54 AM
You're lucky if you leave the house with the right shoe on the right foot.

How long did that one take KC?? Cause that was pure genius right there!
:texan:

sitzpinkler
6/10/2009, 11:58 AM
Basically, its Obama saying that since he just quadrupled the national debt he is now going to figure out how to pay for it all his reckless spending. (or rather WE are.)

So first on the chopping block, the military (of course).

SO enjoy you tax increases! They are coming!!

Serious question: Do you read the links you post?

NYC Poke
6/10/2009, 12:02 PM
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2009/06/09/obama_announces_push_for_paygo.html?wprss=44

Our paychecks are about to get A LOT smaller.

Thanks Obama!!!

Seriously, what's your problem with this?


The "pay as you go" rule is very simple. Congress can only spend a dollar if it saves a dollar elsewhere. And this principle guides responsible families managing a budget. And it is no coincidence that this rule was in place when we moved from record deficits to record surpluses in the 1990s -- and that when this rule was abandoned, we returned to record deficits that doubled the national debt. Entitlement increases and tax cuts need to be paid for. They're not free, and borrowing to finance them is not a sustainable long-term policy.

Sounds to me like an effort to rein in shenanigans like the unfunded prescription drug bill passed by the previous administration, IOW things that administrations push to increase their popularity in the present, but create a huge mess for future administrations to deal with.

This is a fiscally responsible and *gasp* conservative proposal. If you are a genuine fiscal conservative and not just a reactionary Obama-hater, you should support this.

NYC Poke
6/10/2009, 12:03 PM
Basically, its Obama saying that since he just quadrupled the national debt he is now going to figure out how to pay for it all his reckless spending. (or rather WE are.)

So first on the chopping block, the military (of course).

SO enjoy you tax increases! They are coming!!

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/.a/6a00d83451c45669e2011570ed8474970b-500wi

KC//CRIMSON
6/10/2009, 12:10 PM
How long did that one take KC?? Cause that was pure genius right there!
:texan:

About as long as it takes for you to fap to Obama. I figure all you need is a functioning penis, access to a computer and 2-3 minutes to kill.

badger
6/10/2009, 12:11 PM
As one of the fortunate ones that still have job (this is lunch break, thank you very much) I don't mind paying taxes to get the country out of debt. We've reaped the rewards of increased spending for a long time and gotten away with more for less. Now, it's time to pay our debts and move forward... maybe get less for more for awhile, but not inevitably.

Besides, when we got extra money in our paychecks for stimulus, I think it was less than $20. Let the government take that money and pay off the national debt and I'll sacrifice that... um... whatever I would spend $20 on. A new OU hat? Sure, let's go with that.

JLEW1818
6/10/2009, 01:35 PM
People who actually think their taxes were going to decrease... should prlly be thrown in a bed with mack brown.....

AggieTool
6/10/2009, 01:38 PM
Spontaneous fiscal conservatism from the right is just dandy.:D

JLEW1818
6/10/2009, 01:39 PM
oh well after he screws this up so bad, we won't have another far left socialist again.

of course.... he would for things to get real bad... and than introduce real socialism.. so people will see how unpoor it makes them....... what a POS


I hope his dog gets rabies

NormanPride
6/10/2009, 02:03 PM
It's like I'm really reading 6th grade political discourse.

My Opinion Matters
6/10/2009, 02:11 PM
That's an insult to 6th graders.

XingTheRubicon
6/10/2009, 02:20 PM
I think what Tuba was getting at was Obama essentially said...ok, now that we've spent more in 5 months than every adminstration since George Washington combined, let's rein in spending.


In other news, Roger Clemens is insisting on increased testing for steroid use in Major League Baseball.

PDXsooner
6/10/2009, 02:28 PM
How long did that one take KC?? Cause that was pure genius right there!
:texan:

i don't know what you're hoping to accomplish by your posts, but you are truly retarded.

sitzpinkler
6/10/2009, 03:09 PM
oh well after he screws this up so bad, we won't have another far left socialist again.

of course.... he would for things to get real bad... and than introduce real socialism.. so people will see how unpoor it makes them....... what a POS


I hope his dog gets rabies

:rolleyes:

stoops the eternal pimp
6/10/2009, 03:39 PM
sooo..has anybody laughed yet?

Harry Beanbag
6/10/2009, 03:40 PM
As one of the fortunate ones that still have job (this is lunch break, thank you very much) I don't mind paying taxes to get the country out of debt. We've reaped the rewards of increased spending for a long time and gotten away with more for less. Now, it's time to pay our debts and move forward... maybe get less for more for awhile, but not inevitably.

Besides, when we got extra money in our paychecks for stimulus, I think it was less than $20. Let the government take that money and pay off the national debt and I'll sacrifice that... um... whatever I would spend $20 on. A new OU hat? Sure, let's go with that.


We've reaped the rewards? :confused:

SoonerStormchaser
6/10/2009, 03:41 PM
So first on the chopping block, the military (of course).



:confused: :confused: :confused: :mad:

Jello Biafra
6/10/2009, 03:49 PM
:confused: :confused: :confused: :mad:

yeh me too...they can't afford to cut military positions AND have old asssed aircraft... if you know what i mean...

sitzpinkler
6/10/2009, 04:14 PM
yeh me too...they can't afford to cut military positions AND have old asssed aircraft... if you know what i mean...

All it really said in the article is that they are going to restructure the way government contracts are awarded. Then something about some outdated systems that they're scrapping. Nothing about cutting people or anything. That was just Tuba being Tuba.

TheUnnamedSooner
6/10/2009, 04:18 PM
sooo..has anybody laughed yet?

I have now :D

sitzpinkler
6/10/2009, 04:22 PM
Also, Obama didn't say the military was going to "be first on the chopping block". First he mentioned the part about government contracts, then the outdated defense systems, then the rest and Tuba blew it out of proportion.

Crucifax Autumn
6/10/2009, 09:00 PM
I say this every time this **** comes up about the military. It's Gates' cut and he's a conservative Hawk. The guy won't cut anything that will actually weaken the military in any meaningful way. He's just in a rather good position to be able to actually reform or scrap the wasteful parts with a liberal prez that's not gonna tell him no like a far right winger would regardless of the sense in the cuts.

Now if Obama himself starts picking what to cut I'd be concerned, but the 2 cooperating on it could be a good thing and might result in the military being BETTER suplied and funded.

Octavian
6/11/2009, 02:06 AM
Michael Jackson thinks we should all watch our children more closely

badger
6/11/2009, 08:02 AM
We've reaped the rewards? :confused:

Sure, Oklahoma hasn't had the same sized piece of pie as other states with more lobbyists and higher ranking elected officials, but everyone in this country has had some part of the massive spending and tax cuts that there is no question our country could ever afford.

I voted for Bush in 2004 for one reason - my summer job. Before the tax cuts were enacted, I was paying enormous taxes on an almost-minimum wage job and not getting it refunded. Then, the next year, no worries on getting screwed over come tax return time, because I never paid the high tax money in the first place.

So yes, we've all gotten something out of these fiscal decisions made by the current and previous administration, even if we didn't work for big banks or auto companies.

Harry Beanbag
6/11/2009, 08:39 AM
Sure, Oklahoma hasn't had the same sized piece of pie as other states with more lobbyists and higher ranking elected officials, but everyone in this country has had some part of the massive spending and tax cuts that there is no question our country could ever afford.

I voted for Bush in 2004 for one reason - my summer job. Before the tax cuts were enacted, I was paying enormous taxes on an almost-minimum wage job and not getting it refunded. Then, the next year, no worries on getting screwed over come tax return time, because I never paid the high tax money in the first place.

So yes, we've all gotten something out of these fiscal decisions made by the current and previous administration, even if we didn't work for big banks or auto companies.


I'm still wondering what rewards I've received from the country bankrupting itself. We don't need to pay more taxes, the *******s in Washington need to stop wasting our money.

My Opinion Matters
6/11/2009, 08:45 AM
You're both right.

JohnnyMack
6/11/2009, 09:55 AM
I think what Tuba was getting at was Obama essentially said...ok, now that we've spent more in 5 months than every adminstration since George Washington combined, let's rein in spending.


In other news, Roger Clemens is insisting on increased testing for steroid use in Major League Baseball.

Are you in denial as to exactly how much money W spent? I mean BHO is no better, but at least have the common sense to acknowledge that this is far beyond anything partisan.

XingTheRubicon
6/11/2009, 10:17 AM
Are you in denial as to exactly how much money W spent? I mean BHO is no better, but at least have the common sense to acknowledge that this is far beyond anything partisan.

Do you have any idea how much BHO has spent (and hoping to spend) vs W?


I suggest you look it up.



*I was certainly no W fan, however, he's starting to grow on me now.

Vaevictis
6/11/2009, 10:30 AM
Part of the point of that graph JM posted is that the majority of the deficit has been inherited by the new administration. This is something that the Obama administration has argued repeatedly.

One of the things you need to remember when doing this is that we'll be running under a federal budget that was signed into law by Bush all the way until October.

The stuff that was signed into law since his inauguration, go ahead. That's all his. But before that, it's a little muddier, don't you think?

Vaevictis
6/11/2009, 10:44 AM
So, for example, let's go digging through the numbers. I'm using Wikipedia as a source, take it for whatever it's worth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_United_States_federal_budget

$1.89 trillion (Mandatory) + $1.21 trillion (Discretionary) + $0.130 trillion (Iraq/Afghanistan) + $0.247 billion (TARP) = $3.477 trillion

Obama tacked onto that $0.202 billion (American Recovery and Reinvestment Act) and $0.410 billion (2009 Omnibus Spending Bill), for a total of $0.612.

So, this record amount spent by Obama? Yeah, about 15% of it is actually his.

badger
6/11/2009, 10:47 AM
:( i'm still finding no reason to laugh :(

Vaevictis
6/11/2009, 10:48 AM
From another point of view, if you look at how much of his incremental increase in spending contributes to the deficit, well:

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN0424672720090604

Total deficit thus far for the year is about $1 trillion, and estimates for the year put it at $1.8. That gives Obama's incremental spending about a 33% share of the deficit.

RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!
6/11/2009, 11:29 AM
People who actually think their taxes were going to decrease... should prlly be thrown in a bed with *Mack* brown.....Ouch!

OklahomaTuba
6/11/2009, 03:12 PM
Obama tacked onto that $0.202 billion (American Recovery and Reinvestment Act)

So your saying the Porkulus was only $202 Million???

Sounds like your numbers are Bullshiat, as usual.

Check out the PROJECTIONS from the CBO, not wikipedia.

http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/files/2009/04/obamadebt.jpg

Vaevictis
6/11/2009, 08:47 PM
Heh, try looking at the second link Tuba. It's Reuters, not Wikipedia. And it projects $1.8 trillion deficit on the year -- which, not coincidentally I imagine, splits the difference between the CBO and White House numbers.

So, I guess the correct interpretation is that if my numbers are bull**** -- so are yours.

Vaevictis
6/11/2009, 09:03 PM
And the other thing you need to consider, Tuba, is that the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act may authorize expenditures greater than $202 billion in total, but not all of it is going to get spent in 2009.

Oh, you want a source other than Wikipedia? Okay, I'll just incorporate one of the ones that the Wikipedia article reference -- the initial CBO estimate (http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/99xx/doc9989/hr1conference.pdf). It estimated $0.185 trillion in 2009. That's pretty close to $0.202 trillion, and is pretty reasonable given that these things tend to balloon somewhat.

OklahomaTuba
6/12/2009, 10:10 AM
So, I guess the correct interpretation is that if my numbers are bull**** -- so are yours.

Ok, so are you're still saying the porkulus is only $200 Million????

You're not really that stupid, are you???

XingTheRubicon
6/12/2009, 10:46 AM
I didn't even bother answering. I didn't know where to start.

Sooner04
6/12/2009, 10:51 AM
I like how Tuba looked right over V's backup of sources and again called him a moron.

I don't know when it happened, but I hate that politics has become so polarizing.

OklahomaTuba
6/12/2009, 11:06 AM
I like how Tuba looked right over V's backup of sources and again called him a moron.

I don't know when it happened, but I hate that politics has become so polarizing.
I like how V just ignored me pointing out that he said porkulus was only $200 Million.

As if anyone doesn't really know how much it really was.

LosAngelesSooner
6/12/2009, 07:49 PM
Tuba has never, ever, ever cared about facts...

That's why his threads and posts never make any semblance of sense in any conceivable way.

Vaevictis
6/12/2009, 08:26 PM
I like how V just ignored me pointing out that he said porkulus was only $200 Million.

As if anyone doesn't really know how much it really was.

Actually, that's just you stuffing words into my mouth. If you would stop long enough to actually read and comprehend what I wrote, you'd know I never said anything of the sort.

yermom
6/12/2009, 09:09 PM
well, you kinda did.

i'm guessing $.200 billion is a typo

Vaevictis
6/12/2009, 10:03 PM
In 2009, only $200 billion of the stimulus bill will be spent.

This is the relevant amount when talking about the stimulus' contribution to the 2009 deficit.

EDIT: Ah hah, okay, I did. Typo. I did indeed mean "trillion" when I said "billion" wrt to the $0.202 and $0.410 figures. Oops.

Note I corrected it in the later post though :/

XingTheRubicon
6/13/2009, 10:27 AM
I like how Tuba looked right over V's backup of sources and again called him a moron.

I don't know when it happened, but I hate that politics has become so polarizing.



Tuba has never, ever, ever cared about facts...

That's why his threads and posts never make any semblance of sense in any conceivable way.



decimal points are confusing

yermom
6/13/2009, 11:00 AM
it's kind of a clumsy way to write numbers, but was the % mentioned based on the typo or the real number?

is it that hard to talk about facts and not stupid little crap?

Vaevictis
6/13/2009, 01:53 PM
The percentage is correct. All numbers in trillions (which is what I should have said in the first place):

2009 Base Budget + Iraq/Afghanistan + TARP, all inherited from previous administration:

$1.89 (Mandatory) + $1.21 (Discretionary) + $0.130 (Iraq/Afghanistan) + $0.247 (TARP) = $3.477

Incremental Spending under Obama:

$0.202 (American Recovery and Reinvestment Act) + $0.410 ($2009 Omnibus Spending Bill) = $0.612

2009 Total Spending:

$3.477 + $0.612 = $4.089

Proportion of Obama Incremental Spending compared to total spending:

$0.612 / $0.4089 = 0.1497

So, about 15%.

Or, alternatively, if you look at it as a proportion of the deficit which was set at $1.8 above:

$0.612 / $1.8 = 0.34

Or 34%.

Crucifax Autumn
6/13/2009, 06:07 PM
I have a headache!