Dear media: Please stop with the "First Hispanic on SCOTUS" stuff

[Okla-homey]

Because this guy beat her to it:

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/802/283wfap1015sc28bc.jpg

Benjamin Nathan Cardozo (May 24, 1870–July 9, 1938) was a well-known American lawyer and the first Supreme Court Justice of Hispanic* descent, remembered for his significant influence on the development of American common law in the 20th century, in addition to his modesty, philosophy, and vivid prose style.

Of course, in Cardozo's day, justices were'nt chosen based on their ethnicity, gender or sexual preference, so he's merely remembered as a brilliant jurist. But hey, maybe O is going for a "hat trick" on this unmarried-with-no-kids lady? Hmmm?;)

*his forebears were Sephardic Jews from Portugal. And his name ends in a vowel and everything.:D

[Vaevictis]

I think you have a different idea of "Hispanic" than I do.

[SbOrOiNaEnR]

Cordozo's "Hispanic" roots are sketchy at best. He was a Jew whose ancestors came to the US via England and Holland.

However, I think we can all agree that he looks like an aged Conan O'Brien ;)

[VeeJay]

She was born in the backseat of a Greyhound bus rollin' down Highway 41.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

Hispanic is kind of a silly classification anyway.

[Scott D]

I bet Homey'd find out that natives of Portugal don't consider themselves akin to natives of Spain real fast if he actually inquired.

[GottaHavePride]

Spaniards don't consider themselves very related to Mexicans, either. ;)

[KC//CRIMSON]

Spaniards don't consider themselves very related to Mexicans, either. ;)


You'd be surprised how many people don't know that. Then again, on this board, maybe you wouldn't be.

[sooner ngintunr]

Hispanic is kind of a silly classification anyway.

I've known PLENTY of "Hispanics" who think its more than just silly, they just plain didn't like it.

[mikeelikee]

Well crap, she's of Puerto Rican descent. I doubt there's a whole lot of Castillian spanish rattling around down there, amigos!

[picasso]

Spaniards don't consider themselves very related to Mexicans, either. ;)

oh my, I dated a Spanish chick in Santa Fe and don't you ever try to lump her family in with the southies.:eek:

[yermom]

just confirm the yainch already so i don't have to hear about the historicalness anymore

it was bad enough with Mr. O

[Crucifax Autumn]

I can't believe anyone really gives a rats *** either way on this shat.

How about some in dpth coverage of her decisions, cases she's been involved in etc.????

I'm sure it would result in more productive conversation than woman/hispanic, single, poor, educated, bootstraps, ugly, stately, first!

And the best part? We'd still all be arguing like retards on a CNN/Fox debate show!

[OU_Sooners75]

You'd be surprised how many people don't know that. Then again, on this board, maybe you wouldn't be.


Until you read that post...I am pretty sure you are one of those that could not make the distinction. ;)

[OU_Sooners75]

Crux, why would the left wing media turn to making indepth researches into her cases and the like?

[Crucifax Autumn]

True, and it can actually be said of the right wing media as well. The odds of any of us seeing a balanced look at her career and decisions is as likely as KC and Homey getting cuddly in vet's hot tub!

[KC//CRIMSON]

Until you read that post...I am pretty sure you are one of those that could not make the distinction. ;)


Being a quarter Spaniard and knowing a tiny bit of history, it's was pretty easy to make that distinction.

[OU_Sooners75]

Being a quarter Spaniard and knowing a tiny bit of history, it's was pretty easy to make that distinction.


I am 1/64 apache and 1/64 sac & fox...doesnt mean I know jack crap about the history. :D

Even though I know a little bit.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I'm fairly certain that anyone who's not functionally retarded can make that distinction, spaniard or not.

Everyone knows the difference, culturally and historically.

Can we argue about something sensible and maybe, just as a hoot, argue without being childish little bitches? It seems to me that we have a fine mix of beliefs here and a wide variety of threads.

I'm pretty sure if we all try we can call each other names and make fun of commies/nazis/racists/assorted different hat styles etc. in a ton of threads just MADE for that ****. And then, just for ****s and giggles let's have real and proper debates in some others.

In the meantime I'm sure we can all continue to tell people who don't care that I am listening to Fates Warning and someone else can say the Pixies and in some other thread we can talk about a movie or a friggin cartoon or what TF ever else and maintain the correct mood there.

And yeah...I'm calling on all you stupid bastards to do that. I love fighting with you anti-posse people as much as the next guy and I'm not gonna stop, but lets do it in the threads that are asking for it and save other threads for their best use as well.

I feel like I left the kids without a babysitter for the first time and the hippy family next door chose the same day to try that and my neighbor on the otherside let Rush Limbaugh Jr borrow his keys for his hot date with little lucy lowbrow from the other side of the tracks and forgot to lock the liquor cabinet.

[KC//CRIMSON]

I'm fairly certain that anyone who's not functionally retarded can make that distinction, spaniard or not.

Everyone knows the difference, culturally and historically.

Can we argue about something sensible and maybe, just as a hoot, argue without being childish little bitches? It seems to me that we have a fine mix of beliefs here and a wide variety of threads.

I'm pretty sure if we all try we can call each other names and make fun of commies/nazis/racists/assorted different hat styles etc. in a ton of threads just MADE for that ****. And then, just for ****s and giggles let's have real and proper debates in some others.

In the meantime I'm sure we can all continue to tell people who don't care that I am listening to Fates Warning and someone else can say the Pixies and in some other thread we can talk about a movie or a friggin cartoon or what TF ever else and maintain the correct mood there.

And yeah...I'm calling on all you stupid bastards to do that. I love fighting with you anti-posse people as much as the next guy and I'm not gonna stop, but lets do it in the threads that are asking for it and save other threads for their best use as well.

I feel like I left the kids without a babysitter for the first time and the hippy family next door chose the same day to try that and my neighbor on the otherside let Rush Limbaugh Jr borrow his keys for his hot date with little lucy lowbrow from the other side of the tracks and forgot to lock the liquor cabinet.


Okay, Dad.

Don't forget to get your meds refilled.

[OU_Sooners75]

Okay, Dad. Don't forget to get your meds refilled.


Honestly....is there any time that you are not a ****tarded jerk?

Just wonderin, since it seems like the answer is no.:confused:

[Crucifax Autumn]

Now see? That's the kinda silliness I'm referring to.

I can sit here and make a stupid gay joke or something or lump you in as one and the same as everyone who ever sided with you on an issue and then neg the **** outta you or I can just point out that you answered my rather serious post with a wiseass and misplaced comment.

I'll just leave it at that.

But let it be known that I made a serious peaceful gesture about how we could move on from today and I've been mocked by one of the neighborhood kids.

[KC//CRIMSON]

Now see? That's the kinda silliness I'm referring to.

I can sit here and make a stupid gay joke or something or lump you in as one and the same as everyone who ever sided with you on an issue and then neg the **** outta you or I can just point out that you answered my rather serious post with a wiseass and misplaced comment.

I'll just leave it at that.

But let it be known that I made a serious peaceful gesture about how we could move on from today and I've been mocked by one of the neighborhood kids.


Heh, if I really wanted to be a wiseass, I would've used the words: Fates Warning, Trans-Am, and a mullet all in the same sentence!

[OU_Sooners75]

Heh, if I really wanted to be a wiseass, I would've used the words: Fates Warning, Trans-Am, and a mullet all in the same sentence!

Did your mom hate you when you were a lil girl or sumtin?

[KC//CRIMSON]

Did your mom hate you when you were a lil girl or sumtin?


Do you always spell like a redneck with a fifth grade education?

[OU_Sooners75]

Do you always spell like a redneck with a fifth grade education?


Do you always act like an elitist?


Why are you acting like a moronic lil girl all the time? Sandy vadge, or do you have to compensate for something?

[Crucifax Autumn]

Heh, if I really wanted to be a wiseass, I would've used the words: Fates Warning, Trans-Am, and a mullet all in the same sentence!

And you would have looked stupid since I've never driven a Trans Am or wore a Mullet and the average crowd at a Fates Warning show is about half real long hair and half middle aged business guy....doesn't happen so much that both come on the same guy!

I know you get my point, but if you don't want to admit it you can't say I didn't give it my best effort.

[KC//CRIMSON]

And you would have looked stupid since I've never driven a Trans Am or wore a Mullet and the average crowd at a Fates Warning show is about half real long hair and half middle aged business guy....doesn't happen so much that both come on the same guy!

I know you get my point, but if you don't want to admit it you can't say I didn't give it my best effort.


The average crowd back in the early eighties did.....

[OU_Sooners75]

The average crowd back in the early eighties did.....

The average crowd did?

Got a link proving you side?

I grew up in the 80s...and I did see a fair share of mullets, but it was not the average, at least is memory serves correctly.

I do remember short haired women, parachute pants, and the like...but not the redneck mullet..

Of course I grew up in Phoenix.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I saw mullets all the time back then. It was almost always on either a lesbian or some asstard in cowboy boots, levis, a polo shirt, a cowboy hat with a WAY extreme 10/90 driving a big *** truck with the Beastie Boys blaring out speakers too tinny to really sound right.

In other words dumbass poseurs trying to be all things to all people and instead being friggin' dorks!

Oh...I almost forgot the Members only jacket and the bolo!

[Crucifax Autumn]

And KC...far be it from me to judge, but have you noticed that the crowds at some of the bands you enjoy tend to lean either toward androgyny or faux thuggishness?

I'm not gonna assume that you have pursued either as your favored mode of dress.

[KC//CRIMSON]

And KC...far be it from me to judge, but have you noticed that the crowds at some of the bands you enjoy tend to lean either toward androgyny or faux thuggishness?

I'm not gonna assume that you have pursued either as your favored mode of dress.


Nope, not at all.

[Crucifax Autumn]

As should be expected. Unless you're a 15 year old emo kid or part of a cult you are not going to be a carbon copy of the entire "scene".

[Okla-homey]

I bet Homey'd find out that natives of Portugal don't consider themselves akin to natives of Spain real fast if he actually inquired.

I've been to both Spain and Portugal, and have hosted officers from both countries in my home. They got along alright as near as I could tell.

[Okla-homey]

I think you have a different idea of "Hispanic" than I do.

Being descended from persons who originally resided on the Iberian peninsula, where the nation of Spain is situated, does not necessarily make one "Hispanic?" Please enlighten me on the proper criteria for Hispani-shness.;)

[Vaevictis]

Being descended from persons who originally resided on the Iberian peninsula, where the nation of Spain is situated, does not necessarily make one "Hispanic?" Please enlighten me on the proper criteria for Hispani-shness.;)

If you're talking in a historical sense, then yeah, Hispanic clearly includes the whole of Roman Hispania, and some people use it that way in modern times. But that's not the way most people I know think of it.

Take a look at the way the US Office of Management and Budget defines it:


a person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin regardless of race.”

You can pretty easily see the confusion by looking at the page for Hispanic at reference.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Hispanic), which pulls in definitions from different sources. Most of them specifically reference Spain, but one also references the Iberian peninsula as a whole.

It is my experience that most people use the term Hispanic to reference people who share a common cultural and linguistic heritage with the nation of Spain, not ancient Hispania.

Hence, your idea of Hispanic is different than mine.

[Vaevictis]

I would actually liken this to someone referring to Canadians and Mexicans as Americans -- sure, they're both technically from the Americas, and you might be technically correct to call them that from a certain point of view.

But that's just not how most people understand the term "American."

[sooner_born_1960]

I'm gonna go with whatever olevet comes up with for a definition.

[Mixer!]

Of course I grew up in Phoenix.
Did you ever go to a Suspects concert in Tucson circa 1977 and get your a$$ kicked by some d00d & his brother? :dean:

[TUSooner]

What former law student can forget Cardozo's ground-breaking duty-risk analysis in Palsgraf v. Long Island RR Co., 162 N.E. 99 (N.Y. 1928)?

Well, I kinda forgot it. :O But anyway, it's good law stuff, yeah!

[C&CDean]

Did you ever go to a Suspects concert in Tucson circa 1977 and get your a$$ kicked by some d00d & his brother? :dean:

Damn you got one fine remembery.

This whole hispanic thing is tiresome and boring. Being raised mostly in Tucson, we had hispanic everythings. Bosses, workers, girlfriends, doctors, lawyers, etc. Wasn't a big deal at all. Of course I do remember very well the only 2 black kids I ever knew. Leon and Leona Crowe. Twins. Their pop was a doctor I believe.

[Scott D]

I've been to both Spain and Portugal, and have hosted officers from both countries in my home. They got along alright as near as I could tell.

But were you ever brave enough to call one the other?

[NYC Poke]

Being descended from persons who originally resided on the Iberian peninsula, where the nation of Spain is situated, does not necessarily make one "Hispanic?" Please enlighten me on the proper criteria for Hispani-shness.;)


My ex-gf was Spanish, as in her parents were both from Spain (she was raised mainly in Ohio and New Jersey). Her ex-husband was from Puerto Rico, a multiple Harvard legacy who went to Havard undergrad and harvard Law, with blonde hair and blue eyes, and whose family recieved the land they still live on in Puerto Rico from Ferdinand and Isabella.

She was filling out some sort of form for them and checked the "White" box when it asked about ethnicity. He told her that she should have checked "Hispanic," which literally means "of Spain," which they both undoubtedly were. She just laughed at him.

Hispanic as a term for race or ethnicity really isn't very helpful or descriptive. Cardozo was a Sephardic Jew whose family happened to be from Portugal. He most likely thought of his ethnicity as Jewish, not Portuguese, the same way Jews from Eastern Europe tend to think of themselves as Jews, not Poles or Russians. At any rate, he almost certainly felt closer to those Jews culturally than he would have to a chica from The Bronx.

[olevetonahill]

I'm gonna go with whatever olevet comes up with for a definition.

I been staying the hell outa this but heres the wki Def. :D

Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For the Hispanic population of the United States, see Hispanic and Latino Americans. For other uses, see Hispanic (disambiguation).

Hispanic (Spanish: hispano, hispánico) is a term that historically denoted a relationship to the ancient Hispania (geographically coinciding with the Iberian Peninsula). During the modern era, it took on a more limited meaning, relating to the contemporary nation of Spain.

Still more recently, the term is used to describe the culture and people of countries formerly ruled by Spain, usually with a majority of the population having Spanish ancestry and speaking the Spanish language. These include Mexico, the majority of the Central and South American countries, and most of the Greater Antilles. There are also Spanish influences in the African nation of Equatorial Guinea,[1] and the cultures of the Spanish East Indies' nations and territories, the Philippines, Guam and the Northern Mariana Islands.[2]

[Scott D]

I wouldn't tell a Filipino they are Hispanic either, they'll bring 17 cousins and siblings with shanks to fight you.

[yermom]

all the PC terms used are just lame. what they really mean is "brown person that probably speaks Spanish"

most people just call them "Mexican" anyway, regardless of if they are from Puerto Rico or Colombia

i think equality/race relations get cheapened by crap like this. seems divisive to me

[OklahomaTuba]

Why is profiling against terrorists & criminals bad, but profiling to get a SCOTUS judge ok????

[TUSooner]

***
This whole hispanic thing is tiresome and boring. Being raised mostly in Tucson, we had hispanic everythings. Bosses, workers, girlfriends, doctors, lawyers, etc. Wasn't a big deal at all....

It really should be recognized in the media as being as insignificant as it really is to everybody else, at least to folks west of the Mississippi. It's about as significant as "the first Supreme Court Justice whose name ends with an 'R' (or pick your favorite letter)."

[Okla-homey]

If you're talking in a historical sense, then yeah, Hispanic clearly includes the whole of Roman Hispania, and some people use it that way in modern times. But that's not the way most people I know think of it.

Take a look at the way the US Office of Management and Budget defines it:



You can pretty easily see the confusion by looking at the page for Hispanic at reference.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Hispanic), which pulls in definitions from different sources. Most of them specifically reference Spain, but one also references the Iberian peninsula as a whole.

It is my experience that most people use the term Hispanic to reference people who share a common cultural and linguistic heritage with the nation of Spain, not ancient Hispania.

Hence, your idea of Hispanic is different than mine.

I just find it odd that a black Cuban or Puerto Rican, descended from African slaves, is "hispanic," but a guy descended from Jewish Portuguese ancestors isn't.

[NYC Poke]

I just find it odd that a black Cuban or Puerto Rican, descended from African slaves, is "hispanic," but a guy descended from Jewish Portuguese ancestors isn't.


I think of it less on the terms by which we identify "others" than on the way "others" identify themselves. My ex-gf certainly didn't think of herself as "Hispanic." She was raised in the suburbs, spoke perfect English (though she was fluent in Spanish, as well as Portugese, French, and Italian), had pale skin and blue eyes, and read Jane Austen books. She could literally be defined as Hispanic, but that would do little in the way of defining her racially, culturally, or even ethnically.

[yermom]

that's all well and good until you start talking about firsts and quotas and all that

[1890MilesToNorman]

Cordozo's "Hispanic" roots are sketchy at best. He was a Jew whose ancestors came to the US via England and Holland.

However, I think we can all agree that he looks like an aged Conan O'Brien ;)

Obama has a sketchy American heritage at best. :rolleyes:

[Scott D]

I wasn't aware that his mother being a native of the state of Kansas was sketchy. I know we question whether or not that state is attempting to become a Theocracy, but come on.

[NYC Poke]

that's all well and good until you start talking about firsts and quotas and all that


Perhaps, though I doubt she'd be someone the Latino community would identify with.

[1890MilesToNorman]

I think you missed the sarcastic part there Scott?

[Scott D]

clearly you missed mine as well.

[KC//CRIMSON]

He was born in Hawhyya, he aint Merican!

[1890MilesToNorman]

:D

[OU_Sooners75]

Did you ever go to a Suspects concert in Tucson circa 1977 and get your a$$ kicked by some d00d & his brother? :dean:


Nope...I aint old like you.


I would have only been 2 years old then.


And who the hell is Suspects?

[Vaevictis]

I just find it odd that a black Cuban or Puerto Rican, descended from African slaves, is "hispanic," but a guy descended from Jewish Portuguese ancestors isn't.

For me, the "Jew" part is totally unimportant here. To me, when you're talking about modern Hispanics, you're talking about people whose cultural heritage is descended from Spain or most of its colonies. (The Philippines being a notable exception.)

Portugal has its own language and culture which is distinct from Spain.

That's just how I view it, and I think that's the view that's being taken when they talk about the "first Hispanic SC judge."

I understand you can make an argument based on the historical meaning of "hispanic," but at the same time, I think you have to acknowledge that in modern parlance "hispanic" may refer specifically to Spain, its culture and its language.

[Turd_Ferguson]

For me, the "Jew" part is totally unimportant here. To me, when you're talking about modern Hispanics, you're talking about people whose cultural heritage is descended from Spain or most of its colonies. (The Philippines being a notable exception.)

Portugal has its own language and culture which is distinct from Spain.

That's just how I view it, and I think that's the view that's being taken when they talk about the "first Hispanic SC judge."

I understand you can make an argument based on the historical meaning of "hispanic," but at the same time, I think you have to acknowledge that in modern parlance "hispanic" may refer specifically to Spain, its culture and its language.tomato, tomato.

[Vaevictis]

Yeah, they all look the same to me.