Something I don't understand

[JohnnyMack]

The galaxy within which we reside is about 100,000 light years in diameter. Near as I can figure a light year is about 5.9 trillion miles. So our galaxy is about 5,900,000,000,000,000,000 miles across. That's 5.9 quintrillion miles from one end to the other.

The next closest galaxy is about 2.2 million light years away. That'd be 2,200,000 x 5,900,000,000,000 or so miles away just to get to the next closest galaxy. 12,980,000,000,000,000,000 miles will get you to the next galaxy over.

Estimates as to the total number of galaxies there are in the universe at anywhere between 100 and 500 billion.

Why would a god create such a mind-numbingly massive waste of space?

[King Crimson]

because he's crazy 'bout a Ford truck.

[olevetonahill]

He eats beans
Pay tention

[JLEW1818]

Religion is faith... and can't be 100% proven...

I do believe in the big bang theory to an extent. I think it was the noise God made when he made earth.

But your right the galaxy stuff is pretty amazing and very hard to prove wrong, b/c the bible does not talk about it, nor does it talk about dinosaurs.

[JohnnyMack]

He eats beans
Pay tention

You're the reason I'm not sending my kids to public school.

[King Crimson]

You're the reason I'm not sending my kids to public school.

it's all about baking soda, not public schools. i went to public school, btw.

[olevetonahill]

You're the reason I'm not sending my kids to public school.

Me and Bornandbred done had this discussion.
The big bang was God fartin .
BaB said the theory was that the the bang thing expanded to its fullest then started over, So I figure God had to have eaten beans to keep up with all the Big farts going on
Its pretty simple if ya dont try to Over Analise it ;)
Yer welcome :cool:

[olevetonahill]

it's all about baking soda, not public schools. i went to public school, btw.

Hell King unnerstans it and Hes a Perfesser and ****

[BornandBred]

Me and Bornandbred done had this discussion.
The big bang was God fartin .
BaB said the theory was that the the bang thing expanded to its fullest then started over, So I figure God had to have eaten beans to keep up with all the Big farts going on
Its pretty simple if ya dont try to Over Analise it ;)
Yer welcome :cool:

Set 'em straight.

[olevetonahill]

If Mrs God had a put a Lil bakin soda in the beans we prolly wouldnt even be here

[KC//CRIMSON]

You're the reason I'm not sending my kids to public school.


This board alone should be reason enough not to send your kids to public schools.

[JLEW1818]

Public school rocks. It lets your kids grow up more in my opinion.

Not that I have anything against Private schools. Parenting is the biggest role.

[Vaevictis]

Why would a god create such a mind-numbingly massive waste of space?

To reduce cross-contamination between his petri dishes.

[SicEmBaylor]

Not that I have anything against Private schools.

Careful, you're getting close to fightin' words. ;)

Actually, I went to a public school from 2nd-12th and turned out fine. :D

[JLEW1818]

Careful, you're getting close to fightin' words. ;)

Actually, I went to a public school from 2nd-12th and turned out fine. :D

lol, but Baylor is different, its a University. I was talking about high school. And i know what your saying. :D

[olevetonahill]

Careful, you're getting close to fightin' words. ;)

Actually, I went to a public school from 2nd-12th and turned out fine. :D

You Did ?????????:confused:

[SicEmBaylor]

lol, but Baylor is different, its a University. I was talking about high school. And i know what your saying. :D

I went to a Montessori school from pre-pre school - 1st grade. One more year of that **** and I'd have been really screwed up. Public school saved me.

[walkoffsooner]

If you live there the space is not wasted.

[JLEW1818]

I went to a Montessori school from pre-pre school - 1st grade. One more year of that **** and I'd have been really screwed up. Public school saved me.

haha i went to a private Christian pre school also. ages 4 and 5 I believe.

[Ike]

The galaxy within which we reside is about 100,000 light years in diameter. Near as I can figure a light year is about 5.9 trillion miles. So our galaxy is about 5,900,000,000,000,000,000 miles across. That's 5.9 quintrillion miles from one end to the other.

The next closest galaxy is about 2.2 million light years away. That'd be 2,200,000 x 5,900,000,000,000 or so miles away just to get to the next closest galaxy. 12,980,000,000,000,000,000 miles will get you to the next galaxy over.

Estimates as to the total number of galaxies there are in the universe at anywhere between 100 and 500 billion.

Why would a god create such a mind-numbingly massive waste of space?

No idea as to the why. but just think...with the current 3.4 trillion dollar US budget, if we could buy a theoretical GM car with the new cafe standards and spend all of that budget money on gas for the car, we could get a little more than 1% of the way across the galaxy. (assuming 2 dollar a gallon gas at 39 mpg...and of course, roads in space)

I don't know why I brought that up...

[CrimsonJim]

Actually, I went to a public school from 2nd-12th and turned out fine. :D

Debatable.... ;)

[olevetonahill]

No idea as to the why. but just think...with the current 3.4 trillion dollar US budget, if we could buy a theoretical GM car with the new cafe standards and spend all of that budget money on gas for the car, we could get a little more than 1% of the way across the galaxy. (assuming 2 dollar a gallon gas at 39 mpg...and of course, roads in space)

I don't know why I brought that up...

Makes as much sense as My Bean theory :D

[King Crimson]

it was a real sacrifice for even young sic'em to traffic among the lower, slope headed folk. the unwashed.

he belongs among the elite. the state-builders, the architects of Republic.

[Ike]

he belongs among the elite. the state-builders, the architects of Republic.

May God help us if he ever gets there. And if they start listening to him, even God won't be able to help us anymore...

;)

[SicEmBaylor]

it was a real sacrifice for even young sic'em to traffic among the lower, slope headed folk. the unwashed.

he belongs among the elite. the state-builders, the architects of Republic.

It wasn't too bad; I am from Fort Gibson. :D

[SicEmBaylor]

haha i went to a private Christian pre school also. ages 4 and 5 I believe.

Oh man, Montessori was anything but Christian. It was closer to straight up pagan than anything.

The Montessori school I attended was the absolute epitome of a modern liberal/progressive education. We had virtually no academic requirements, no grades, the students were allowed to do what lessons they wanted when they wanted, we called our teachers by their first name, all grades were taught together in the same large classroom, we weren't allowed to wear shoes indoors, we weren't allowed any sugary items for our lunch (which I got around since I was hypoglaucemic and my dad was a Doc :D), and we were basically allowed to go out and play whenever we wanted without any supervision.

Our building was a single room igloo shaped building with a fish pond right in the middle. When it was someone's birthday we all sat around the pond in a circle. The birthday kid would then carry this box of candles around the circle once for each year of life. For example, if he/she were 8 then they would carry 8 lit candles around the circle 8 times signifying the Earth rotating around the Sun.

The reason I'm a conservative to this day has everything to do with that school. We weren't allowed private possessions/school supplies. Everything we had went into the "community" supply closet but each student was required to bring a list of supplies that then belonged to the community. Well, I would always bring the best named brand stuff while all the other kids brought those cheap *** crayons that don't color correctly and I'd get stuck using their ****ty supplies while the other kids used my good stuff. I couldn't complain though because it was no longer MY crayons but the community's crayons. :rolleyes: This is when I first started hating socialism....

I'll tell you where this school was and some of you may know exactly where I'm talking about. Anyone familiar with Muskogee probably knows about Children's House Fireworks....well across from the Warehouse there on the property is an igloo shaped building...that's where my socialist Montessori school was.

[King Crimson]

The reason I'm a conservative to this day has everything to do with that school.

this is absurd...sharing your crayons is not a basis for political theory....it's a basis for neurosis.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I just farted a universe!

[King Crimson]

I just farted a universe!

dude,

http://suffolkmaintenancesupply.com/smsstore/thumbnails/XCDC1415.jpeg

[olevetonahill]

After my pot a beans this week Ive created a ****load of em

[My Opinion Matters]

The galaxy within which we reside is about 100,000 light years in diameter. Near as I can figure a light year is about 5.9 trillion miles. So our galaxy is about 5,900,000,000,000,000,000 miles across. That's 5.9 quintrillion miles from one end to the other.

The next closest galaxy is about 2.2 million light years away. That'd be 2,200,000 x 5,900,000,000,000 or so miles away just to get to the next closest galaxy. 12,980,000,000,000,000,000 miles will get you to the next galaxy over.

Estimates as to the total number of galaxies there are in the universe at anywhere between 100 and 500 billion.

Why would a god create such a mind-numbingly massive waste of space?

He's a show-off.

[Fraggle145]

To reduce cross-contamination between his petri dishes.

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/images/reputation/reputation_highpos.gif

:cool:

[Tulsa_Fireman]

It may be far for our monkey brains now, but think about another hundred years at the pace of technological advancement we've enjoyed over the past one hundred.

I'd be willing to bet we'll have that figured out by then.

[BornandBred]

I suspect that in 200 years, the human concepts of time and space will have greatly evolved.

[Ardmore_Sooner]

Yeah, I love that we care about the galaxy and the missing link more than fixing the freakin' economy or getting clean water to everyone across the planet. Makes LOADS of sense. :rolleyes:

[Boomer.....]

If you take wormholes, it don't take long to get from galaxy to galaxy. Duh.

[kbsooner21]

Yeah, I love that we care about the galaxy and the missing link more than fixing the freakin' economy or getting clean water to everyone across the planet. Makes LOADS of sense. :rolleyes:

I'm more worried about if the Nuggets can steal a game in LA tonight and if Dale Jr can even win another NASCAR race again. That other stuff is all hogwash :D

[JohnnyMack]

Yeah, I love that we care about the galaxy and the missing link more than fixing the freakin' economy or getting clean water to everyone across the planet. Makes LOADS of sense. :rolleyes:

Jesus can fix the economy?

[crawfish]

The galaxy within which we reside is about 100,000 light years in diameter. Near as I can figure a light year is about 5.9 trillion miles. So our galaxy is about 5,900,000,000,000,000,000 miles across. That's 5.9 quintrillion miles from one end to the other.

The next closest galaxy is about 2.2 million light years away. That'd be 2,200,000 x 5,900,000,000,000 or so miles away just to get to the next closest galaxy. 12,980,000,000,000,000,000 miles will get you to the next galaxy over.

Estimates as to the total number of galaxies there are in the universe at anywhere between 100 and 500 billion.

Why would a god create such a mind-numbingly massive waste of space?

Because it needs to be so big. If it wasn't, all the matter would come crushing in on itself. Duh.

;)

[Ardmore_Sooner]

Jesus can fix the economy?

Why do you care? Fixing the economy has nothing to do with disproving God.

[crawfish]

Yeah, I love that we care about the galaxy and the missing link more than fixing the freakin' economy or getting clean water to everyone across the planet. Makes LOADS of sense. :rolleyes:

It seems counterintuitive, but looking inward to solve problems only makes things worse. Entropy states that a closed system moves from order to disorder; I believe this has wide application. Try to solve the unsolvable problems; learn more about the universe we exist in, further scientific knowledge, understand the past. Through these we create a dynamic atmosphere that ends up helping more than focusing solely on our most pressing internal problems.

[Ardmore_Sooner]

It seems counterintuitive, but looking inward to solve problems only makes things worse. Entropy states that a closed system moves from order to disorder; I believe this has wide application. Try to solve the unsolvable problems; learn more about the universe we exist in, further scientific knowledge, understand the past. Through these we create a dynamic atmosphere that ends up helping more than focusing solely on our most pressing internal problems.

I just fail to realize how learning how many stars our in the universe pertains to anything here on Earth. Our world has to many things that we may not be able to be fix, but can definitely be made better.

[BornandBred]

I just fail to realize how learning how many stars our in the universe pertains to anything here on Earth. Our world has to many things that we may not be able to be fix, but can definitely be made better.

Are you making, or trying to make, arguments against the advancement of exploration science, astronomy, and the like? Maybe I missed something.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

I like cheetos.

[Ardmore_Sooner]

Are you making, or trying to make, arguments against the advancement of exploration science, astronomy, and the like? Maybe I missed something.

No, I guess I just don't get the reason behind these threads. Person A gives evidence to disprove God and Person B gives evidence to prove God. We go around and around in circles giving scientific evidence and Biblical evidence about one side or the other, it solves nothing.

I just think if we cared about more important things, rather than trying to just argue with others (becuase you aren't going to change anyways opinion).

[crawfish]

I just fail to realize how learning how many stars our in the universe pertains to anything here on Earth. Our world has to many things that we may not be able to be fix, but can definitely be made better.

There may be no direct line between studying the far reaches of the universe and practical application. However, studying astronomy is helping us unlock the mysteries of space which will help us to develop the ability to travel through space, which has the possibility of expanded and new mineral resources and even colonization. We could dedicate ourselves to building a new way to distribute water over the globe, perhaps get it working for now; but eventually, it would break down as population increased. If you sacrificed building for the future to build for today, it is certain we could have a better today; but we'd end up sacrificing tomorrow. Discovery brings hope.

There will always be problems. We could direct every single resource we have and still not solve them. And, if you're not planning ahead, you're only setting yourself up for a big fall in the future.

[BornandBred]

No, I guess I just don't get the reason behind these threads. Person A gives evidence to disprove God and Person B gives evidence to prove God. We go around and around in circles giving scientific evidence and Biblical evidence about one side or the other, it solves nothing.

I just think if we cared about more important things, rather than trying to just argue with others (becuase you aren't going to change anyways opinion).

Right, but the political thread is somewhere else. That is where the lefties and the righties yell at each other about how to solve real world problems. This is where the evangelical blowhards come to battle the atheist crowd. And as soon as football season comes around, I'll probably only spend time on the football board. Until then, it's fun to stir the pot a little.

[Ardmore_Sooner]

There may be no direct line between studying the far reaches of the universe and practical application. However, studying astronomy is helping us unlock the mysteries of space which will help us to develop the ability to travel through space, which has the possibility of expanded and new mineral resources and even colonization. We could dedicate ourselves to building a new way to distribute water over the globe, perhaps get it working for now; but eventually, it would break down as population increased. If you sacrificed building for the future to build for today, it is certain we could have a better today; but we'd end up sacrificing tomorrow. Discovery brings hope.

There will always be problems. We could direct every single resource we have and still not solve them. And, if you're not planning ahead, you're only setting yourself up for a big fall in the future.

I agree that there is a place for astronomy and exploration. I really wasn't trying to say that, but I just feel that there are more pressing matters that could be looked at is all I'm saying.

[Ardmore_Sooner]

Right, but the political thread is somewhere else. That is where the lefties and the righties yell at each other about how to solve real world problems. This is where the evangelical blowhards come to battle the atheist crowd. And as soon as football season comes around, I'll probably only spend time on the football board. Until then, it's fun to stir the pot a little.

I'm going to request you stop posting in this thread. ;)

[BornandBred]

There may be no direct line between studying the far reaches of the universe and practical application. However, studying astronomy is helping us unlock the mysteries of space which will help us to develop the ability to travel through space, which has the possibility of expanded and new mineral resources and even colonization. We could dedicate ourselves to building a new way to distribute water over the globe, perhaps get it working for now; but eventually, it would break down as population increased. If you sacrificed building for the future to build for today, it is certain we could have a better today; but we'd end up sacrificing tomorrow. Discovery brings hope.

There will always be problems. We could direct every single resource we have and still not solve them. And, if you're not planning ahead, you're only setting yourself up for a big fall in the future.

Exactly right. The fact is, the Earth will be enveloped by the Sun some day, and we'll need to have a way off it if the human species wants to survive. While the current space program may be infantile, it's the first steps that are hardest to take.

[BornandBred]

I'm going to request you stop posting in this thread. ;)

****!

[NYC Poke]

The galaxy within which we reside is about 100,000 light years in diameter. Near as I can figure a light year is about 5.9 trillion miles. So our galaxy is about 5,900,000,000,000,000,000 miles across. That's 5.9 quintrillion miles from one end to the other.

The next closest galaxy is about 2.2 million light years away. That'd be 2,200,000 x 5,900,000,000,000 or so miles away just to get to the next closest galaxy. 12,980,000,000,000,000,000 miles will get you to the next galaxy over.

Estimates as to the total number of galaxies there are in the universe at anywhere between 100 and 500 billion.

Why would a god create such a mind-numbingly massive waste of space?

You just burst the real estate bubble. Thanks. :rolleyes:

[crawfish]

I agree that there is a place for astronomy and exploration. I really wasn't trying to say that, but I just feel that there are more pressing matters that could be looked at is all I'm saying.

...and why are you convinced that they aren't?

[JohnnyMack]

No, I guess I just don't get the reason behind these threads. Person A gives evidence to disprove God and Person B gives evidence to prove God. We go around and around in circles giving scientific evidence and Biblical evidence about one side or the other, it solves nothing.

I just think if we cared about more important things, rather than trying to just argue with others (becuase you aren't going to change anyways opinion).

I wasn't necessarily speaking of the Christian god when I started this thread. I was just commenting that as we increase the level of our understanding of science it in my mind helps make all religion seem more like a fairytale.

The sheer size of the universe compared against a religion that was popularized in a particular region of our planet during a particular time makes (to me anyway) said religion seem rather insignificant. It makes everything seem insignificant for that matter, but my specific thought was how could one accept that a deity would create such a ridiculously huge petri dish for us to have played in for only the last couple of thousand years?

[BornandBred]

Maybe he's got bigger plans?

[TAFBSooner]

I like the Petri dish idea. :)

But are we kept apart and won't ever be able to leave our solar system? Or is there a test; like a race between learning how to "go there," learning how to avoid destroying ourselves, and figuring it all out before the eventual immolation of the Earth when the Sun starts burning out?

We have lots of scientific discoveries to make before we're able to visit any of the other Petri dishes, but we should be able to learn how to get there (thousands of years?) long before the Sun burns up (5 billion years). This all assumes it's possible at all.

I won't see it, so Paramount, keep the Star Trek movies coming.;)

[sooner_born_1960]

We might learn how to do it if some society a few thousand years advanced of us comes for a visit.

[TUSooner]

Why must we assume that it's "wasted" space?

Now, the road between Seiling and Woodward.... :D

[Ardmore_Sooner]

We might learn how to do it if some society a few thousand years advanced of us comes for a visit.

That happened on South Park. All they did was take er jerbs!

[CrimsonJim]

We might learn how to do it if some society a few thousand years advanced of us comes for a visit.

Oh no! Now you're bringing extra curricular beings into the conversation. How will we ever be able to keep up?!!

[JLEW1818]

Sam Bradford is a christian... shouldn't we all wanna be like him? hehe

[SicEmBaylor]

this is absurd...sharing your crayons is not a basis for political theory....it's a basis for neurosis.

You underestimate the power of crayons on a young boy's psyche. ;)

Besides, this wasn't sharing this was communization. I had no problem with sharing because sharing implies it's still my personal property to dispense with as I saw appropriate.

Of course I'm exaggerating...I'm sure it had nothing to do with who I am today. Still, at that age I recognized that there was something wrong with the system.

[TUSooner]

Have you ever exhaled forcefully through your nose and felt something fly out, but not know where it went?

[CrimsonJim]

Don't ya just hate it when that happens?!!!

[BornandBred]

CJ, never noticed your sig, great books.

[TheUnnamedSooner]

God created the Earth, not the universe. geez everyone knows this.

[mdklatt]

Well, I would always bring the best named brand stuff while all the other kids brought those cheap *** crayons that don't color correctly and I'd get stuck using their ****ty supplies while the other kids used my good stuff. I couldn't complain though because it was no longer MY crayons but the community's crayons. :rolleyes: This is when I first started hating socialism....


It was never your stuff to begin with because:

1) Your parents bought the crayons in the first place, not you.

2) They bought the crayons for the explicit purpose of being community property. I don't get bent out of shape because other people are driving on "my" section of I-35.

The whole "what's mine is mine and what's yours is yours" libertarian economic philosophy sounds great when you're a selfish, naive little kid, but then most of us grow the **** up.

[Curly Bill]

It was never your stuff to begin with because:

1) Your parents bought the crayons in the first place, not you.

2) They bought the crayons for the explicit purpose of being community property. I don't get bent out of shape because other people are driving on "my" section of I-35.

The whole "what's mine is mine and what's yours is yours" libertarian economic philosophy sounds great when you're a selfish, naive little kid, but then most of us grow the **** up.

Not a big believer in personal property?

[mdklatt]

Not a big believer in personal property?

I'm fine with personal property, but I also recognize the need for community property which is something economic libertarians don't seem to grasp.

[Curly Bill]

I'm fine with personal property, but I also recognize the need for community property which is something economic libertarians don't seem to grasp.

I recognize the need for community property, infrastructure and such...it just seemed in the end of your post you weren't a fan of peeps having a right to personal property. If I misinterpreted your post I apologize.

[mdklatt]

I recognize the need for community property, infrastructure and such...it just seemed in the end of your post you weren't a fan of peeps having a right to personal property. If I misinterpreted your post I apologize.

I'm board with the libertarians wanting to increase our personal freedoms, but they have a simplistic view of economics and a naive faith in the ability of "the market" to produce a desirable outcome in all cases. The same thing that makes communism unworkable is the same thing that would make a purely free market economy unworkable--people are greedy, short-sighted bastards by nature.

[Curly Bill]

I guess I largely agree with you then -- a pure market economy is no more viable than a pure democracy would be. I guess that's why you don't find either these days.

[SicEmBaylor]

I'm fine with personal property, but I also recognize the need for community property which is something economic libertarians don't seem to grasp.

This was not an example of a situation where there was any need for community property. The system was utterly pointless. There's absolutely no comparison between civil works projects like roads and forcing kids to turn all of their school supplies into communal property.

[JohnnyMack]

Stop ****ing up this thread and get back to galaxies and ****. Nowish.

[mdklatt]

This was not an example of a situation where there was any need for community property. The system was utterly pointless.

The point was to learn how to not be a selfish little ****head. And also so that everybody would have crayons to use, because for various reasons I'm sure not every student brought in every item on the required list.

[mdklatt]

Stop ****ing up this thread and get back to galaxies and ****. Nowish.

The new Star Trek movie sucks balls. :pop:


(Yeah, I have no idea. I haven't seen it.)

[CrimsonJim]

CJ, never noticed your sig, great books.

Thx, BornandBred. Yep, books that you can read over and over again.

And now, back to our regularly scheduled pissin' match....

[JohnnyMack]

The new Star Trek movie sucks balls. :pop:


(Yeah, I have no idea. I haven't seen it.)

I actually really wanna see it. Maybe this long weekend.

[swardboy]

The galaxy within which we reside is about 100,000 light years in diameter. Near as I can figure a light year is about 5.9 trillion miles. So our galaxy is about 5,900,000,000,000,000,000 miles across. That's 5.9 quintrillion miles from one end to the other.

The next closest galaxy is about 2.2 million light years away. That'd be 2,200,000 x 5,900,000,000,000 or so miles away just to get to the next closest galaxy. 12,980,000,000,000,000,000 miles will get you to the next galaxy over.

Estimates as to the total number of galaxies there are in the universe at anywhere between 100 and 500 billion.

Why would a god create such a mind-numbingly massive waste of space?


To put you in your place....

[soonerinabilene]

so apparently that fifth element movie is full of ****, huh?

[Ike]

I agree that there is a place for astronomy and exploration. I really wasn't trying to say that, but I just feel that there are more pressing matters that could be looked at is all I'm saying.

There are always "more pressing matters" than many of the more esoteric (undirected) reaches of science. But the funny thing about those areas of science is that while the direct results from those areas of study may have little or no impact on our every day lives, it often happens that the tools these super-smart people develop in order to solve these previously unsolvable problems turn out to have a HUGE impact on our daily lives.

Take the webernets for example.

[hellogoodbye]

Its all relative. The Atlantic ocean looked like the End of the World for a while too. It's also about the timeframe. Atomic theory \ science started out with a guy and a chalkboard.

[Veritas]

Why would a god create such a mind-numbingly massive waste of space?
Well, Johnny, your mommy and daddy loved each other. And when a man loves a woman...

:D

[Vaevictis]

There are always "more pressing matters" than many of the more esoteric (undirected) reaches of science. But the funny thing about those areas of science is that while the direct results from those areas of study may have little or no impact on our every day lives, it often happens that the tools these super-smart people develop in order to solve these previously unsolvable problems turn out to have a HUGE impact on our daily lives.

Calculus, Maxwell's Equations, Quantum Physics, Fourier Transform.

All of which are mandatory for modern life, all of which would not exist if not for people looking at things with "no practical application".

[Ike]

Calculus, Maxwell's Equations, Quantum Physics, Fourier Transform.

All of which are mandatory for modern life, all of which would not exist if not for people looking at things with "no practical application".

Yeah, well, I thought I'd throw out an example that most people could wrap their heads around. :)

[Vaevictis]

Yeah, well, those can easily be reduced to "the transistor radio", which I think everyone here can get.

In other words, 400 years of non-practical research eventually culminates in the precursor to all communications systems in use today.

[1890MilesToNorman]

You guys feel puny yet? The universe is astounding, just when you think you know it all, think about it. You know nothing in the scheme of things.

Some on here know less than others so if you come to that conclusion you might want to rethink your position.

[Chuck Bao]

I for one am very glad my God created the universe as it is with all of that massive waste of space. I wouldn't want a nearby star going kabutz and like blasting us with radiation or a blackhole passing by and just swallowing us up. The Milky Way Galaxy will eventually collide with the Andromeda Galaxy and I read somewhere that with space so large it really shouldn't affect our tiny solar system too much.

I was recently reading this book by Fred Alan Wolf "Parallel Universes" which basically states that our universe is just too perfect and without that perfection there would be no chance for a tiny little planet to support life. Any very, very tiny change in a number of physical properties, such as atomic weight of elements or the four forces of nature, would render our universe unliveable. God must of known what he was doing or, as this book supposes that we are just lucky that our particular universe, popping up in an endless fabric of universes, was conducive to life.

I can go along with both ideas and I still call it God.

[Ike]

I for one am very glad my God created the universe as it is with all of that massive waste of space. I wouldn't want a nearby star going kabutz and like blasting us with radiation or a blackhole passing by and just swallowing us up. The Milky Way Galaxy will eventually collide with the Andromeda Galaxy and I read somewhere that with space so large it really shouldn't affect our tiny solar system too much.

I was recently reading this book by Fred Alan Wolf "Parallel Universes" which basically states that our universe is just too perfect and without that perfection there would be no chance for a tiny little planet to support life. Any very, very tiny change in a number of physical properties, such as atomic weight of elements or the four forces of nature, would render our universe unliveable. God must of known what he was doing or, as this book supposes that we are just lucky that our particular universe, popping up in an endless fabric of universes, was conducive to life.

I can go along with both ideas and I still call it God.


All we can really state is that with certain changes to physical constants, life as we know it couldn't exist...doesn't mean though that it couldn't exist in some other kind of form...I tend to think the 'perfect universe' theories use a bit too much of the handwaving. There are a lot of things we don't really understand that leave the implications of wiggling around physical constants more uncertain than a lot of people think.

And the "many universes" theory is just as much handwaving too...since we can't communicate with any of the other universes, there is no way of knowing if thats true or not.

The universe is what it is. And it's pretty amazing. If you want to call that 'God' or you want to call that awfully damned lucky, thats really your call.

I just want to know more about how it does what it does.

[Fraggle145]

All we can really state is that with certain changes to physical constants, life as we know it couldn't exist...doesn't mean though that it couldn't exist in some other kind of form...I tend to think the 'perfect universe' theories use a bit too much of the handwaving. There are a lot of things we don't really understand that leave the implications of wiggling around physical constants more uncertain than a lot of people think.

And the "many universes" theory is just as much handwaving too...since we can't communicate with any of the other universes, there is no way of knowing if thats true or not.

The universe is what it is. And it's pretty amazing. If you want to call that 'God' or you want to call that awfully damned lucky, thats really your call.

I just want to know more about how it does what it does.

Me too. I am far from thinking I "know everything." I think I know hardly anything, hence why I do what I do.

BTW have you seen some of the "out there" theories that look at crystal formation and their accumulation as a possibility for forming life? Its out there but hey anything is possible when we get to that part... :pop:

[Vaevictis]

I was recently reading this book by Fred Alan Wolf "Parallel Universes" which basically states that our universe is just too perfect and without that perfection there would be no chance for a tiny little planet to support life. Any very, very tiny change in a number of physical properties, such as atomic weight of elements or the four forces of nature, would render our universe unliveable. God must of known what he was doing or, as this book supposes that we are just lucky that our particular universe, popping up in an endless fabric of universes, was conducive to life.

Yeah, I hear this one a lot from people trying to convince me that there's scientific evidence of a God. It has a fundamental flaw -- the possibility of a Big Crunch.

There's a theory in physics (Big Crunch) that it may be that the universe will eventually stop expanding and start contracting, perhaps eventually resulting in a singularity similar to that which preceded the Big Bang.

If you assume that the probability of such a singularity yielding a Big Bang is 1, and you assume that the universe created by such a Big Bang yields a Big Crunch with probability 1, then you have a universe in an infinite expansion and contraction cycle.

If you assume that on each of these cycles that the probability of intelligent life like ours occurring is non-zero then you have a situation where the eventual formation of life is almost certain.

In short, don't buy any of these probability-based arguments for the existence of God. We don't know enough about just how (im)probable the formation of life is to draw any reasonable conclusions.

(Really, I don't object to believing in God -- go ahead. There are plenty of good reasons to do so. I just object to people using science and math -- and bad science and math, at that -- to try to show that God exists.)

[Vaevictis]

Additionally, you've also got interpretations of quantum physics that imply that if it's possible for life to develop in the universe, then in fact it must.

I just wish people would stop trying to apply current science to the question of God. Science has no answers, or even reliable hints, on the matter.

[Chuck Bao]

I really don't believe in the big crunch.

I think there are just pockets of reality exploding and then expanding and exploding elsewhere and expanding. Maybe in some of those universes, the mass is great enough to bring a big crunch. But, that is just not in our universe.

Never the mind, as Ike said, that is just hand waving.

I was always wondering that if the universe is hurling faster and faster away, it was hurling away from what? There had to be a center. Somebody explained it like a rubberband stretching and streching and that each point on the rubber band getting away faster without there being an actual center of a rubber band and the ends of our visable universe approaching and eventually exceeding the speed of light and they'd just blink out never to be seen again.

Maybe there is a cold dark and stark future to our universe. That may be depressing and all, but maybe humanity learns to live in the dark and generate the heat and life to sustain us.

More hand waving.

We haven't figured out dark energy which is supposedly driving our accelerating universe or dark matter that supposedly accounts for more than 90% of the estimated mass of the universe.

I am comforted by the fact that we have someone as smart as Ike working on this. This gives me hope that we can figure out a few things, although it is unrealistic that we can figure out everything. And, until then I'm still keeping my faith in God.

If Ike wants to recommend a few current books here, that would be greatly appreciated.

[Vaevictis]

Given the recent indications that the expansion of the universe is accelerating, I'd say that the Big Crunch is looking unlikely according to what we know.

But, the Big Crunch is sort of secondary to my point which is -- we don't know enough about the formation of our universe to realistically talk about the probability of our being here, or the probability of the things that permit us to be here. Under one set of assumptions, it's highly improbable, and under another set, it's a near certainty.

Once you realize that, it becomes pretty obvious that if you happen to subscribe to one set of assumptions or another, you've stepped out of the realm of science and into the realm of belief. And there's nothing wrong with that, so long as you admit it.

[Chuck Bao]

Given the recent indications that the expansion of the universe is accelerating, I'd say that the Big Crunch is looking unlikely according to what we know.

But, the Big Crunch is sort of secondary to my point which is -- we don't know enough about the formation of our universe to realistically talk about the probability of our being here, or the probability of the things that permit us to be here. Under one set of assumptions, it's highly improbable, and under another set, it's a near certainty.

Once you realize that, it becomes pretty obvious that if you happen to subscribe to one set of assumptions or another, you've stepped out of the realm of science and into the realm of belief. And there's nothing wrong with that, so long as you admit it.

Reality may be exactly that.

The collapse of the wave function into observable particles.

In a sense, maybe we are the Gods.

And, I going to tip my hat to Ike again before he says that's mere hand waving.

[Jerk]

As to the original post in this thread:

There is a verse in the Bible that answers the specific question. Actually several.

But, I figure, why bother, since this thread really wasn't posted to ask a question; it was posted to make a point.

[JohnnyMack]

As to the original post in this thread:

There is a verse in the Bible that answers the specific question. Actually several.

But, I figure, why bother, since this thread really wasn't posted to ask a question; it was posted to make a point.

But the Bible is just one of many theological road maps out there. You happen to live in a Euro-centric dominated country that is predominately inhabited by people who subscribe to the dominant mythology of this era in this region which happens to be Christianity. If the religion of the ancient Greeks had won out over Christianity you'd think I was blaspheming Zeus.

As an atheist I admit that my point was to point out flaws in the way mythologies explain science. But Christianity is as flawed as any other religion in terms of offering valid explanations.

[VeeJay]

There was one day in 1988 when I came close to figuring out the universe and not only its purpose but my place in it.

It was compliments of 14 or 15 Old Milwaukee tall boys, speed, marijuana and culminating with a hit of acid.

[Jerk]

But the Bible is just one of many theological road maps out there. You happen to live in a Euro-centric dominated country that is predominately inhabited by people who subscribe to the dominant mythology of this era in this region which happens to be Christianity. If the religion of the ancient Greeks had won out over Christianity you'd think I was blaspheming Zeus.

As an atheist I admit that my point was to point out flaws in the way mythologies explain science. But Christianity is as flawed as any other religion in terms of offering valid explanations.


Well, I guess I will try and answer your question as to why God made the heavans so large. The Old Testament guys seem to think it was done simply as a testament to the eternal nature of God. You know, something tangible that you can actually see. Or some such gobiddygook.

[Mixer!]

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/9914/mccoyhyp.jpg (http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mccoyhyp.jpg)

"It's life, Jim - but not as we know it."

[Ike]

I really don't believe in the big crunch.

I think there are just pockets of reality exploding and then expanding and exploding elsewhere and expanding. Maybe in some of those universes, the mass is great enough to bring a big crunch. But, that is just not in our universe.

Never the mind, as Ike said, that is just hand waving.

:)


I was always wondering that if the universe is hurling faster and faster away, it was hurling away from what? There had to be a center. Somebody explained it like a rubberband stretching and streching and that each point on the rubber band getting away faster without there being an actual center of a rubber band and the ends of our visable universe approaching and eventually exceeding the speed of light and they'd just blink out never to be seen again.

This is actually a very interesting question that does have an answer, even though that answer is rather unsatisfying. There should be a center of the universe. The problem though is that as long as we are sufficiently on the 'inside' of the universe, we can never tell where it is. Since things are moving away from each other linearly with distance, every point in the universe looks like the center. Unless you can see the edge of the universe, and be able to tell that it's the edge. And we have no idea really what the edge of the universe would look like if we could see it anyway...there are a lot of 'handwaving' theories on that one too...But anyway, unless you can distinguish the edge of the universe, there is simply no way to know where the center of the universe is. Everywhere looks like the center.



Maybe there is a cold dark and stark future to our universe. That may be depressing and all, but maybe humanity learns to live in the dark and generate the heat and life to sustain us.

More hand waving.

:)


We haven't figured out dark energy which is supposedly driving our accelerating universe or dark matter that supposedly accounts for more than 90% of the estimated mass of the universe.

I am comforted by the fact that we have someone as smart as Ike working on this. This gives me hope that we can figure out a few things, although it is unrealistic that we can figure out everything. And, until then I'm still keeping my faith in God.

Thanks for the compliment. However though, I'm not working on this stuff anymore. (actually, I've only worked on the really small stuff...not the really big stuff...but there is a chance that the LHC will be able to find a candidate particle for dark matter) I've decided to go do something that can earn me some real money (finding oil and gas). But there are still a lot of smart people working on these things, many of whom are good friends of mine, and far less interested in material things than I am...



If Ike wants to recommend a few current books here, that would be greatly appreciated.
Let me get back to you on that...I actually haven't read many books in these areas...my knowledge comes mostly from talks and papers. One that I will recommend though that talks about some of the interesting stuff out there is Brian Greene's "The Elegant Universe". It does go a little too much into string theory (which doesn't even have a prediction that can be tested yet), but it does talk a whole lot about many of the issues facing physics right now.

[BudSooner]

Have you ever exhaled forcefully through your nose and felt something fly out, but not know where it went?

I have, it looked weird, then my head hurt and I still can't see out of my left eye and my handwriting sucks balls. Are you saying there is a tie to this? ;)


It was never your stuff to begin with because:

1) Your parents bought the crayons in the first place, not you.

2) They bought the crayons for the explicit purpose of being community property. I don't get bent out of shape because other people are driving on "my" section of I-35.

The whole "what's mine is mine and what's yours is yours" libertarian economic philosophy sounds great when you're a selfish, naive little kid, but then most of us grow the **** up.
Just don't **** on MY lawn ok? :D

Oh and Ike, your figure about using a GM car....it's possible to get 4% farther, due to the lack of a drag coefficient, of course once you get past the outer stratosphere that is.
That and inflate your tires with Nitrogen too, helps with lowering temps in the atmosphere upon reentry. :D

Sorry about all of that.....sugar rush came on. :)

[BornandBred]

If Ike wants to recommend a few current books here, that would be greatly appreciated.

A Brief History of Time by Stephen Hawking is pretty good. He breaks stuff down pretty well for the layman.


I think there are just pockets of reality exploding and then expanding and exploding elsewhere and expanding. Maybe in some of those universes, the mass is great enough to bring a big crunch. But, that is just not in our universe.

I spoke with a physics professor about this once. He explained by relating it to shaving cream. If each bubble is a bang, there are many happening at once. In infinite space given infinite time, the masses of each bang will eventually collide with each other and again be contracted together, forming the crunch. I've always liked the idea of the Big Crunch vs. the Big Wimper. That mass has to go somewhere, and while gravity is constant-ish, I suspect it'll all come back together. It just makes more sense to me.

[CK Sooner]

Me and Bornandbred done had this discussion.
The big bang was God fartin .
BaB said the theory was that the the bang thing expanded to its fullest then started over, So I figure God had to have eaten beans to keep up with all the Big farts going on
Its pretty simple if ya dont try to Over Analise it ;)
Yer welcome :cool:

WAOxY_nHdew

[Collier11]

Careful, you're getting close to fightin' words. ;)

Actually, I went to a public school from 2nd-12th and turned out fine. :D

if being a 28 year old re-virgined undergrad is fine ;)