Obama: No more trucks and SUVs for you!

[OklahomaTuba]

The Dear Leader has decided you should replace your prized $40,000 GMC Yukon with a clown car (that will probably be made in China if its an "American" car.)


The new rules would bring new cars and trucks sold in the United States to an average of 35.5 miles per gallon, about 10 mpg more than today's standards. Passenger cars will be required to get 39 mpg, light trucks 30 mpg.

That means cars and trucks on American roads will have to become smaller, lighter and more efficient.

Eric Fedewa, vice president of global powertrain forecasting for the auto consulting firm CSM Worldwide in Northville, Mich., said the changes will make pickup trucks so much more expensive that they will be used almost exclusively for work. http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090519/D989J3F00.html

[achiro]

The Dear Leader has decided you should replace your prized $40,000 GMC Yukon with a clown car (that will probably be made in China if its an "American" car.)

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090519/D989J3F00.html
Just more proof how ****ing stupid this admin really is. If this is on your agenda, fine, just wait until the auto industry isn't falling apart to announce it. :rolleyes:

[BornandBred]

Have they addressed what they'll do to me and my 9.5 mpg pickup now? Am I going to be getting a sweet new tax?

[oumartin]

dude is an idiot..

[OklahomaTuba]

Planet killers, alls of yas. Why do you hate Gaia mother urf???

[LilSooner]

Hmmm sorry I find it hard to believe that we put a man on the moon, make new human skin out of a pigs bladder, but somehow can't figure out how to make a ****ing truck not get 10 miles per gallon.

Some one ain't doing their job.

[Fraggle145]

Hmmm sorry I find it hard to believe that we put a man on the moon, make new human skin out of a pigs bladder, but somehow can't figure out how to make a ****ing truck not get 10 miles per gallon.

Some one ain't doing their job.

This.

[achiro]

Hmmm sorry I find it hard to believe that we put a man on the moon, make new human skin out of a pigs bladder, but somehow can't figure out how to make a ****ing truck not get 10 miles per gallon.

Some one ain't doing their job.

My diesel gets 18 MPG, the same truck 2 years older gets 22. The newest version gets 12-15. I can modify just a couple of things on my truck, not increasing bad emissions at all, and increase my MPG to close to 25. Good bad or otherwise the gov. restrictions on diesel motors have decreased the efficiency, not increased. Some of that loss of efficiency has nothing to do with actual emissions issues btw.
The VW Jetta TDI went from close to 60mpg down to around 40 with new restrictions.

[TUSooner]

I have a right to be as wasteful and inefficient as I want to be without paying more for it, no matter how it affects anyone I don't even care about.

That's just as stupidly bad as the New Orleans welfare sow saying "I may be poor but I don't have to live like it."

[TexasSooner01]

Hey dont look at me...i didnt vote for him.

[soonervegas]

I'll believe it when I see this new magical no truck world.

[C&CDean]

I have a right to be as wasteful and inefficient as I want to be without paying more for it, no matter how it affects anyone I don't even care about.

That's just as stupidly bad as the New Orleans welfare sow saying "I may be poor but I don't have to live like it."

Whoa there big boy. Timeout. No way in hell you can compare my $50K F-350 that gets 8 mpg hauling bulls with the scumballs down in your hole.

1. I paid for my truck outta my own pocket.
2. I pay for my fuel outta my own pocket.
3. I even pay for the dirtbags down by the river in your joint.

Poor analogy my brother.

[GottaHavePride]

I'm in favor of these changes. I'm also in favor of properly designing cities and mass-transit systems so fewer people need to own their own vehicles.

This is an economic issue (we will be better off if we're not dependent on foreign oil) and a public health issue (tell me the car-generated smog in LA isn't a public health hazard...) just as much as it is an environmental issue.

[BornandBred]

I'm in favor of these changes. I'm also in favor of properly designing cities and mass-transit systems so fewer people need to own their own vehicles.

This is an economic issue (we will be better off if we're not dependent on foreign oil) and a public health issue (tell me the car-generated smog in LA isn't a public health hazard...) just as much as it is an environmental issue.

I totally agree with you.

I get so irritated with the concept of fighting Global Warming. I mean, the largest source of energy on Earth is the Sun and solar output has been high for the few years so we're getting hotter, so is Mars. It has nothing to do with CO2 output....

But, I get lost fighting against Gore and his hollywood-politician moron friends that I lose the fact that I AM AGAINST POLLUTION. I am terrified of the rising rates autism, birth defects, cancers, etc. I wish that they could connect pollution to these things. It would make a much more logical argument to me. I think if you took politics out of this argument, 90% of those opposed to it would get behind it.

[AggieTool]

First our guns, then our trucks.:mad:

What's next? He gonna make us read books?:mad:

[C&CDean]

Yeah, them books would make your aglet head explode.

[Pricetag]

Not if he stuck to easy stuff, say the Harry Potter series, for example.

[BornandBred]

Yeah, them books would make your aglet head explode.

Nothing releases green house gasses like combusting aggot heads.

[C&CDean]

Not if he stuck to easy stuff, say the Harry Potter series, for example.

You must not like living much.

[AggieTool]

Not if he stuck to easy stuff, say the Harry Potter series, for example.

Nah, I don't red that dern evil magic stuff...

I done been 'readin a book full 'o facts, real accounts, and real magic...

The bible!:D

[C&CDean]

Yeah, just what we need. An atheist pig ****er.

[NYC Poke]

Yeah, just what we need. An atheist pig ****er.

What's wrong with being an atheist?

[OklahomaRed]

We were talking about this today at lunch. Four of us are sitting there griping and moaning about run away government spending, printing money as fast as the printing presses can keep up, and the government taking over the banks, Chrysler, and GM (no thanks to them not being able to compete in a world economy due to excessive government regulations and union workers making $90/hr to bolt on bumpers), and speculation that we will all be driving our old cars until they fall apart (aka. Cuba), and the disappearance of the Pick-Up and Suburban (how do you get 6 people in a Honda?), and this one Democrat friend of mine chimes in, "I'm glad the government is taking over all these businesses. I'm glad the government is taking over Healthcare. I don't think people ought to be driving Hummers."

You could of heard a pin drop; however, it did point out to me that I am more of a moderate than I thought. I did agree that there is not any way most average Americans can afford $30,000 hospital admissions; however, these type costs started sky rocketing when the government got involved.

With that said, the government has not business bailing out ignorant people who made loans to people that can't pay them back, and who speculated on derrivatives. The government ought to get out of the auto industry and let the free market dictate what type and size cars we drive. Yes, there has to be some control over emissions; however, America does not need to penalize our industry to the point of financial failure when they cannot compete in the world market.

[Mixer!]

What's wrong with being an atheist?

I think he prefers his pig fuuckers to be God-fearing pig fucckers. :pop:

[OklahomaRed]

What's wrong with being an atheist?

In my personal opinion? Nothing. Have fun. Rock & Roll!!! :D

Now, if you believe the Bible is true, then a lot; however, it does not change my opinion of someone. Most people are as#ses irregardless of any religious affiliation.

If I'm right, then you can ask that question again when you die? :D

If I'm wrong, then I sure did miss out on a lot of bad stuff I could have been doing?

With that said, most bad stuff will kill you anyway, so either way, do the right thing and worry about the judgement later? :confused:

[BornandBred]

In my personal opinion? Nothing. Have fun. Rock & Roll!!! :D

Now, if you believe the Bible is true, then a lot; however, it does not change my opinion of someone. Most people are as#ses irregardless of any religious affiliation.

If I'm right, then you can ask that question again when you die? :D

If I'm wrong, then I sure did miss out on a lot of bad stuff I could have been doing?

With that said, most bad stuff will kill you anyway, so either way, do the right thing and worry about the judgement later? :confused:


Pascal's Wager. One way you win nothing and lose everything (atheist) and the other way you win everything and lose nothing (theist). By pot odds alone, I'm a believer.

[soonerscuba]

Pascal's Wager. One way you win nothing and lose everything (atheist) and the other way you win everything and lose nothing (theist). By pot odds alone, I'm a believer.That assumes all forms of theism are a path to heaven.

[AggieTool]

Yeah, just what we need. An atheist pig ****er.

Spoken like a true Christian.:D

[BornandBred]

That assumes all forms of theism are a path to heaven.

True. But, I think God is more forgiving of someone who worships the wrong way than of someone who doesn't worship at all. But, that's just me.

[AggieTool]

That assumes all forms of theism are a path to heaven.

Aintcha herd?

Gamblins a sin.:P

[oumartin]

So, all those who seem to be in favor of these new standards are pale skinned, sickly looking democrats that have never had dirt under their fingernails and probably have never stepped outside to even see if the sun was shining. The same people that will pay $8.00 for an iced coffee but will gripe about paying 3.00 for a gallon of gasoline.

America is becoming full of you pale skinned wussies and it just disgusts me.

Go bury your head in a karl marx book and when you feel the need to go eat some raw fish and buy a stupid high dollar coffee, jump into your flippin' prius and maybe fate will bring us together as I smash into the drivers side of your tin can with my Chevrolet pickup.

[AggieTool]

True. But, I think God is more forgiving of someone who worships the wrong way than of someone who doesn't worship at all. But, that's just me.

'Cuz dontcha know?

The creator of the entire universe "needs" to be worshiped.;)

[sitzpinkler]

Pascal's Wager. One way you win nothing and lose everything (atheist) and the other way you win everything and lose nothing (theist). By pot odds alone, I'm a believer.

If you're a believer and the atheist is correct, what exactly have you won?

If you're an atheist and you're correct, what have you lost?

[BornandBred]

Hippies used to be the dirty ones. Funny how things work out.

[sitzpinkler]

So, all those who seem to be in favor of these new standards are pale skinned, sickly looking democrats that have never had dirt under their fingernails and probably have never stepped outside to even see if the sun was shining. The same people that will pay $8.00 for an iced coffee but will gripe about paying 3.00 for a gallon of gasoline.

America is becoming full of you pale skinned wussies and it just disgusts me.

Go bury your head in a karl marx book and when you feel the need to go eat some raw fish and buy a stupid high dollar coffee, jump into your flippin' prius and maybe fate will bring us together as I smash into the drivers side of your tin can with my Chevrolet pickup.

That's a really pathetic, redneck way of painting with a very broad brush, and it's completely off-base.

[olevetonahill]

Howzit makes inane Crazy assed post
But at least HES funny
you on the other hand , yer just a stupid assed aggie tool :rolleyes:

[BornandBred]

If you're a believer and the atheist is correct, what exactly have you won?

If you're an atheist and you're correct, what have you lost?

A) Nada, you just lost a little bit of time. But, generally, you've lived as a good person and improved humanity. Generally, but not always.

B) Nada, cause you just stop being.

[JLEW1818]

Hippies are really good for America..:rolleyes:

[sitzpinkler]

True. But, I think God is more forgiving of someone who worships the wrong way than of someone who doesn't worship at all. But, that's just me.

Why would a supreme being that is supposedly so good and pure require the worship of us peons? Why does he crave so much attention? Sounds a bit egotistical to me.

[JLEW1818]

If you're a believer and the atheist is correct, what exactly have you won?

If you're an atheist and you're correct, what have you lost?

If your atheist and Christians are correct, what do atheist get.... :hot: :hot:

[BornandBred]

Why would a supreme being that is supposedly so good and pure require the worship of us peons? Why does he crave so much attention? Sounds a bit egotistical to me.

Fair question. I think it's all about opinions, clearly. So to me, God created everything because of Love. Look at it like this, if you have a dog, you don't have to have a dog. But, you CHOSE to have a dog to share the love.

[sitzpinkler]

If your atheist and Christians are correct, what do atheist get.... :hot: :hot:

the same that you get if the Jews are correct or if the Muslims are correct I suppose

[LilSooner]

My diesel gets 18 MPG, the same truck 2 years older gets 22. The newest version gets 12-15. I can modify just a couple of things on my truck, not increasing bad emissions at all, and increase my MPG to close to 25. Good bad or otherwise the gov. restrictions on diesel motors have decreased the efficiency, not increased. Some of that loss of efficiency has nothing to do with actual emissions issues btw.
The VW Jetta TDI went from close to 60mpg down to around 40 with new restrictions.

Which is why if the automotive industry would have taken the damn initiative to do the right thing and I don't know increase EFFICIENCY :eek: of the products they were putting out on the market they may still have control over their own companies.

But who am I kidding we would first need to teach them the meaning of the word efficiency before expecting to actually be able to do it.

Common sense is hard.

[sitzpinkler]

Fair question. I think it's all about opinions, clearly. So to me, God created everything because of Love. Look at it like this, if you have a dog, you don't have to have a dog. But, you CHOSE to have a dog to share the love.

The word "worship" is what bothers me. I can't see why a supreme being would need that. Lack of self-confidence? A need to be validated?

[JLEW1818]

the same that you get if the Jews are correct or if the Muslims are correct I suppose

Correct. I'm all about separation of church and state.. I love how in American you can worship a cow if you really want to.

But as I always say.

I'll play my cards with Christianity, and others can player their cards.

And when we die, well see what happens..

[BornandBred]

the same that you get if the Jews are correct or if the Muslims are correct I suppose

That's another fundamental problem I have with organized religion. If I choose the right one for me, who says it's the RIGHT one. Lets say Mormon is the RIGHT answer, what about the people in far away Africa that lead perfectly good lives following the only religion they know. Well, I think a truly benevolent God would have more pity and forgiveness for this person than someone who out rightly rejected religion because they just don't believe it.

[BornandBred]

The word "worship" is what bothers me. I can't see why a supreme being would need that. Lack of self-confidence? A need to be validated?

I get that. I think of 'worship' more as 'show God some love'. I think I can worship God from the golf course if I'm truly thankful. God gave us beauty to be appreciated.

[JLEW1818]

That's another fundamental problem I have with organized religion. If I choose the right one for me, who says it's the RIGHT one. Lets say Mormon is the RIGHT answer, what about the people in far away Africa that lead perfectly good lives following the only religion they know. Well, I think a truly benevolent God would have more pity and forgiveness for this person than someone who out rightly rejected religion because they just don't believe it.

Here is my take on it....

Let's say Christianity ends up being the so called "correct" religion. In my opinion on how I interpret the bible, I believe that the people who "reject" Jesus are the ones that .............. don't go to heaven.

As far as the people in Africa, if they never hear about Jesus, they never rejected him.

The bible is very debatable. And its very hard to know what to take literal.

One thing that the Bible does make 100% clear is John 3:16

[BornandBred]

Which is why if the automotive industry would have taken the damn initiative to do the right thing and I don't know increase EFFICIENCY :eek: of the products they were putting out on the market they may still have control over their own companies.

But who am I kidding we would first need to teach them the meaning of the word efficiency before expecting to actually be able to do it.

Common sense is hard.

Thing is, where is the motivation to increase efficiency? They have been able to sell inefficient cars/trucks/suvs for a very long time. Things are changing, and the current business model is taking it in the pants for it. They need to change it ASAP, not be taken over by the government.

[JLEW1818]

Our bodies are to freaking perfect for their not to be a high maker. Just look how a baby is made................ that just happened because two asteroids banged together? haha, wrong.

[BornandBred]

Here is my take on it....

Let's say Christianity ends up being the so called "correct" religion. In my opinion on how I interpret the bible, I believe that the people who "reject" Jesus are the ones that .............. don't go to heaven.

As far as the people in Africa, if they never hear about Jesus, they never rejected him.

The bible is very debatable. And its very hard to know what to take literal.

One thing that the Bible does make 100% clear is John 3:16

The older I get the more intrigued I become by Bahaism. I'd like to hear what Jesus would have thought about that.

[Pricetag]

You must not like living much.
Not if I can't have a pick up.

[achiro]

Which is why if the automotive industry would have taken the damn initiative to do the right thing and I don't know increase EFFICIENCY :eek: of the products they were putting out on the market they may still have control over their own companies.

But who am I kidding we would first need to teach them the meaning of the word efficiency before expecting to actually be able to do it.

Common sense is hard.

You missed the point. The efficiency is hammered because of the GOVERNMENTAL regulations. The motors are there, they just have to be restricted so much that it takes more fuel to run them.

[OklahomaRed]

Why would a supreme being that is supposedly so good and pure require the worship of us peons? Why does he crave so much attention? Sounds a bit egotistical to me.

Yep. God is not some emotionless diety. Like Dean said, He created us in His image. He loves, hates, despises, craves, and is pleased by our worship. You got a problem with that, talk to God. :D

He's right, because He is the alpha and the omega (the beginning and the end). He gets to call the shots, and he gets to say what is right and wrong! It sucks not getting to be god, doesn't it? :P

[sitzpinkler]

That's another fundamental problem I have with organized religion. If I choose the right one for me, who says it's the RIGHT one. Lets say Mormon is the RIGHT answer, what about the people in far away Africa that lead perfectly good lives following the only religion they know. Well, I think a truly benevolent God would have more pity and forgiveness for this person than someone who out rightly rejected religion because they just don't believe it.

that's why I don't think ANY of them are right

[BornandBred]

that's why I don't think ANY of them are right

Religions are evolving, just like animals, economies, and business models. Or at least how they should.

[JLEW1818]

The older I get the more intrigued I become by Bahaism. I'd like to hear what Jesus would have thought about that.

It would be really hard to get Christians and Islamic's to believe the same things.

is bahaism the religion of joining all religions?

[JLEW1818]

Yep. God is not some emotionless diety. Like Dean said, He created us in His image. He loves, hates, despises, craves, and is pleased by our worship. You got a problem with that, talk to God. :D

He's right, because He is the alpha and the omega (the beginning and the end). He gets to call the shots, and he gets to say what is right and wrong! It sucks not getting to be god, doesn't it? :P

I agree, but i still don't get why he likes Tim Tebow so much..... ;) :D

[BornandBred]

It would be really hard to get Christians and Islamic's to believe the same things.

is bahaism the religion of joining all religions?

Something like that. It basically says there is a God. The way you believe is your path to God. The important thing is to follow the tenants set by your religion and to love God and each other.

I haven't made a conversion from Christianity, but my thinking aligns pretty well with them.

[LilSooner]

You missed the point. The efficiency is hammered because of the GOVERNMENTAL regulations. The motors are there, they just have to be restricted so much that it takes more fuel to run them.

Point me to the GOVERNMENTAL regulations that are doing this then? Because I have family and friends that are in the car business and I have never heard them say anything like this.

What regulations have been put in the place in the last 5 years that have caused a diesel truck go from 22 down to 12?

[sitzpinkler]

Our bodies are to freaking perfect for their not to be a high maker. Just look how a baby is made................ that just happened because two asteroids banged together? haha, wrong.

that's a gross oversimplification and you know it, at least I hope you do

I don't understand why people have this need to believe anything complex has to be "designed"

[JLEW1818]

Something like that. It basically says there is a God. The way you believe is your path to God. The important thing is to follow the tenants set by your religion and to love God and each other.

I haven't made a conversion from Christianity, but my thinking aligns pretty well with them.

yah, relationship with Jesus is more for me, than Religion.

I drespect people who believe in God, but not Jesus.

But for people to say, there is absolutely no high maker, are crazy.

In other words, I can see how some people might not believe in Jesus being the Messiah. But I can't see how people don't believe in "a God" . aka higher maker, more powerful than humans.

[JLEW1818]

that's a gross oversimplification and you know it, at least I hope you do

I don't understand why people have this need to believe anything complex has to be "designed"

I don't think it was complex. I think God did it with a single thought. :D

[sitzpinkler]

Yep. God is not some emotionless diety. Like Dean said, He created us in His image. He loves, hates, despises, craves, and is pleased by our worship. You got a problem with that, talk to God. :D

He's right, because He is the alpha and the omega (the beginning and the end). He gets to call the shots, and he gets to say what is right and wrong! It sucks not getting to be god, doesn't it? :P

by the very nature of god as described in christianity, he doesn't hate, despise and crave, those are not the traits of a truly benevolent being

craving worship is egotistical, which falls on the side of evil. that doesn't sound like something a benevolent god would crave or require

[BornandBred]

It all boils down to this: I only know what I know, and I don't think I can reasonably be expected to believe anything outside my sphere of influence. Meaning, if I grow up in a completely Buddhist community, I'm pretty well set on being either Buddhist, or rejecting it completely. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I don't think all those that observe the wrong religions are completely lost.

I think there is a God because the love I have for my family is greater than I think any random chance could create.

[TAFBSooner]

Pascal's Wager. One way you win nothing and lose everything (atheist) and the other way you win everything and lose nothing (theist). By pot odds alone, I'm a believer.

I don't see how belief in God on the sole basis of Pascal's Wager is even really belief. At best it's a lazy person's way out.

[BornandBred]

I don't see how belief in God on the sole basis of Pascal's Wager is even really belief. At best it's a lazy person's way out.

More correctly, it's a scared person's way out.

[NYC Poke]

What's wrong with being an atheist?

I'm not one to pat myself on the back much, but this was a pretty good highjack. :pop:

[TAFBSooner]

So, all those who seem to be in favor of these new standards are pale skinned, sickly looking democrats that have never had dirt under their fingernails and probably have never stepped outside to even see if the sun was shining. The same people that will pay $8.00 for an iced coffee but will gripe about paying 3.00 for a gallon of gasoline.

America is becoming full of you pale skinned wussies and it just disgusts me.

Go bury your head in a karl marx book and when you feel the need to go eat some raw fish and buy a stupid high dollar coffee, jump into your flippin' prius and maybe fate will bring us together as I smash into the drivers side of your tin can with my Chevrolet pickup.

(nope, no smileys)
What has any Prius driver done to make you think it's OK to kill one?

[sitzpinkler]

yah, relationship with Jesus is more for me, than Religion.

I drespect people who believe in God, but not Jesus.

But for people to say, there is absolutely no high maker, are crazy.

In other words, I can see how some people might not believe in Jesus being the Messiah. But I can't see how people don't believe in "a God" . aka higher maker, more powerful than humans.

what evidence do I have to go by to make me even consider a higher being? that I exist? nope, not enough. that the universe is complex? nope. in fact, I would have a far easier time believing in a higher power if everything wasn't complex. why go out of your way to make DNA, atoms, etc, when you're so all powerful and can do anything with ease? why create the laws of physics to begin with? why make us biological? and for the love of pete, why make us have to defecate and urinate? why not make us exist without all this? why would a higher being use evolution and such complex ways of "creating" everything when instead they could just wave a magic wand?

you have to realize, people who do believe sound just as crazy to us as we do to you.

[BornandBred]

I think it was highjacked by an aggie, but not you.


Nah, I don't red that dern evil magic stuff...

I done been 'readin a book full 'o facts, real accounts, and real magic...

The bible!:D

Credit where it's due...

[yermom]

what evidence do I have to go by to make me even consider a higher being? that I exist? nope, not enough. that the universe is complex? nope. in fact, I would have a far easier time believing in a higher power if everything wasn't complex. why go out of your way to make DNA, atoms, etc, when you're so all powerful and can do anything with ease? why create the laws of physics to begin with? why make us biological? and for the love of pete, why make us have to defecate and urinate? why not make us exist without all this? why would a higher being use evolution and such complex ways of "creating" everything when instead they could just wave a magic wand?

you have to realize, people who do believe sound just as crazy to us as we do to you.

if there is a god, why doesn't he give a **** about people? he wants everyone to worship him, then why do kids die of cancer? i mean God created cancer, right? AIDS too, Swine Flu...

i can't quite wrap my brain around the fact that there are more tragedies than miracles

[BornandBred]

if there is a god, why doesn't he give a **** about people? he wants everyone to worship him, then why do kids die of cancer? i mean God created cancer, right? AIDS too, Swine Flu...

i can't quite wrap my brain around the fact that there are more tragedies than miracles

Your brain is too puny to understand the awesomeness of God. (or something to that effect)

[sitzpinkler]

if there is a god, why doesn't he give a **** about people? he wants everyone to worship him, then why do kids die of cancer? i mean God created cancer, right? AIDS too, Swine Flu...

i can't quite wrap my brain around the fact that there are more tragedies than miracles

AMEN :D

[TAFBSooner]

Our bodies are to freaking perfect for their not to be a high maker. Just look how a baby is made................ that just happened because two asteroids banged together? haha, wrong.

(Disclaimer - belief in evolution does not imply lack of belief in a God, although some atheists will argue otherwise)

In fact, young seeker, our bodies are far from perfect. They are what the computer geeks call a kludge. Let's not even discuss all forms of terminal disease, because (from the believer's standpoint) you have to have some waypoint on the path to heaven.

Perfection wouldn't allow birth defects, which at their worst create people who even if they live long enough don't have enough functioning brain to understand the whole concept of belief. Perfection would have been a backbone that was designed for bipedalism, instead of being an creaky adaptation based on quadrapeds. Perfection wouldn't have allowed for chronic painful diseases like the whole range of autoimmune disorders. And et cetera.

[Veritas]

What a shock, the wheels came off this thread.

[Fraggle145]

Your brain is too puny to understand the awesomeness of God. (or something to that effect)

yep. :D

[Fraggle145]

(Disclaimer - belief in evolution does not imply lack of belief in a God, although some atheists will argue otherwise)

In fact, young seeker, our bodies are far from perfect. They are what the computer geeks call a kludge. Let's not even discuss all forms of terminal disease, because (from the believer's standpoint) you have to have some waypoint on the path to heaven.

Perfection wouldn't allow birth defects, which at their worst create people who even if they live long enough don't have enough functioning brain to understand the whole concept of belief. Perfection would have been a backbone that was designed for bipedalism, instead of being an creaky adaptation based on quadrapeds. Perfection wouldn't have allowed for chronic painful diseases like the whole range of autoimmune disorders. And et cetera.

All I know is that logically god cant be completely disproven. Hence, by default I am agnostic, but as close to atheist as you can get.

[OklaPony]

i can't quite wrap my brain around the fact that there are more tragedies than miracles
How do you know this?

[KC//CRIMSON]

So, all those who seem to be in favor of these new standards are pale skinned, sickly looking democrats that have never had dirt under their fingernails and probably have never stepped outside to even see if the sun was shining. The same people that will pay $8.00 for an iced coffee but will gripe about paying 3.00 for a gallon of gasoline.

America is becoming full of you pale skinned wussies and it just disgusts me.

Go bury your head in a karl marx book and when you feel the need to go eat some raw fish and buy a stupid high dollar coffee, jump into your flippin' prius and maybe fate will bring us together as I smash into the drivers side of your tin can with my Chevrolet pickup.

This is hilarious. Do you have a gun rack and a confederate flag on your truck too?

[soonerhubs]

I really think this thread should be Split in two.
1) The Tired Atheist Manifesto (Yes we know we believers are naive war mongers, thanks for finally helping us see the light. :rolleyes:)
and
2) The Fact that the Current Administration is proposing the metaphorical bat to the head of an auto industry already on life-support.

1) I'm tired of the first topic so I'll just use Michael Scott's quote: "Is there a God? If not, what are all these churches for? And who is Jesus’ dad?" This quote always makes me laugh. :D
Believe what you want, find out for yourself, and live true to your convictions, and how about you respect other belief systems that may counter yours? I think this applies to all belief systems, including atheism and agnosticism.



2) If this legislation is climate driven, then I'm curious to see if there is current research showing proof anywhere in the earth's long history showing that weather and climate ever remaining constant. I'm convinced that these Man-Made Global Warming Theorist really need to crack open "Who Moved My Cheese" and perhaps apply this to the world's climate. I'm quite certain things changed on this earth long before smoke stacks were in the skyline. There is evidence of this all over the world found by archeologists and paleontologists.
If this legislation is fuel economy driven, I'd suggest that the market would demand more fuel efficient cars. Maybe I'm wrong.

[JLEW1818]

Religion is all about faith. You can't 100% prove it to somebody. That is why it's so debatable.

And if someone I know is not a christian, I don't like/dislike them anymore if they were a christian.


Bob Stoops is christian..:D ....shouldn't we all want to be like him? ;)

[JLEW1818]

if there is a god, why doesn't he give a **** about people? he wants everyone to worship him, then why do kids die of cancer? i mean God created cancer, right? AIDS too, Swine Flu...

i can't quite wrap my brain around the fact that there are more tragedies than miracles

yes bad things happen. But would parents want a kid with cancer, or no kid at all?

Every time a kid is born, it's a damn miracle in my opinion.

[yermom]

I really think this thread should be Split in two.
1) The Tired Atheist Manifesto (Yes we know we believers are naive war mongers, thanks for finally helping us see the light. :rolleyes:)
and
2) The Fact that the Current Administration is proposing the metaphorical bat to the head of an auto industry already on life-support.

1) I'm tired of the first topic so I'll just use Michael Scott's quote: "Is there a God? If not, what are all these churches for? And who is Jesus’ dad?" This quote always makes me laugh. :D
Believe what you want, find out for yourself, and live true to your convictions, and how about you respect other belief systems that may counter yours? I think this applies to all belief systems, including atheism and agnosticism.



2) If this legislation is climate driven, then I'm curious to see if there is current research showing proof anywhere in the earth's long history showing that weather and climate ever remaining constant. I'm convinced that these Man-Made Global Warming Theorist really need to crack open "Who Moved My Cheese" and perhaps apply this to the world's climate. I'm quite certain things changed on this earth long before smoke stacks were in the skyline. There is evidence of this all over the world found by archeologists and paleontologists.
If this legislation is fuel economy driven, I'd suggest that the market would demand more fuel efficient cars. Maybe I'm wrong.

1) i tolerate religion, i don't tolerate when someone tries to tell me that it's dumb to not believe in God because of all this "logic". Pascal's Wager being a good example.

2) it could also be driven by the fact that our overconsumption of oil makes us have to deal with people we don't really like while making them rich.
and i'm pretty sure we'd never have gone into Iraq twice if we weren't hooked on oil. it's obvious that the auto industry and consumers forgot all about the 70's oil problems with the way every other car on the road is an SUV with one person in it.

[Vaevictis]

Whoa there big boy. Timeout. No way in hell you can compare my $50K F-350 that gets 8 mpg hauling bulls with the scumballs down in your hole.

Actually, there is a way in hell.

The woman in New Orleans dumps the cost of her excesses on society in the form of receiving cash from the government. You dump the cost of your excesses on society in the form of pollution.

That said, your activities are considerably less contemptable given that they're done in the pursuit of commerce instead of sitting on your couch watching a big screen TV.

[tommieharris91]

Bob Stoops is christian..:D ....shouldn't we all want to be like him? ;)

Bob Stoops is Catholic thank you very much. :pop:

[AggieTool]

Bob Stoops is Catholic thank you very much. :pop:

Same thing?

[JLEW1818]

Bob Stoops is Catholic thank you very much. :pop:

Catholics are Christians.....

[soonerhubs]

1) i tolerate religion, i don't tolerate when someone tries to tell me that it's dumb to not believe in God because of all this "logic". Pascal's Wager being a good example.


2) it could also be driven by the fact that our overconsumption of oil makes us have to deal with people we don't really like while making them rich.
and i'm pretty sure we'd never have gone into Iraq twice if we weren't hooked on oil. it's obvious that the auto industry and consumers forgot all about the 70's oil problems with the way every other car on the road is an SUV with one person in it.

1) I'm fine with that, and you're right.
2) Two words: Picken's Plan. :D :D :D ;)

[oumartin]

r u candy assed liberals still babblin?

[NormanPride]

Tuba got out-trolled by an aggie. Awesome.

[GrapevineSooner]

Can we all get back to talking about cars, SUV's, etc.?

[Frozen Sooner]

True. But, I think God is more forgiving of someone who worships the wrong way than of someone who doesn't worship at all. But, that's just me.

Dude. He made it like the VERY FIRST commandment. I'm pretty sure he dislikes it more when you worship wrong than not at all.

[Frozen Sooner]

Believe what you want, find out for yourself, and live true to your convictions, and how about you respect other belief systems that may counter yours? I think this applies to all belief systems, including atheism and agnosticism.

I would submit that for the most part the atheists and agnostics around here have been more respectful in the main towards your faith than the theists.

[King Crimson]

I would submit that for the most part the atheists and agnostics around here have been more respectful in the main towards your faith than the theists.

I'd agree with this.

[BornandBred]

Dude. He made it like the VERY FIRST commandment. I'm pretty sure he dislikes it more when you worship wrong than not at all.

Fair point, but it was at the same time that he said:

"for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me"

So, we're all likely screwed by the sins of our great great grandparents, if you take the bible word for word. I take that one to mean don't let things get in the way of your love of God. Meaning, don't love money over God, etc.

[Frozen Sooner]

Fair point, but it was at the same time that he said:

"for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me"

So, we're all likely screwed by the sins of our great great grandparents, if you take the bible word for word. I take that one to mean don't let things get in the way of your love of God. Meaning, don't love money over God, etc.

Considering the context (Moses coming down the mountain to find them worshipping a false God) and that there were, in fact, many competing religions in the region, I don't think it's too big of a stretch to think that the first commandment is specifically targeted towards people who worship other gods. The case can certainly be generalized towards things that become more important than loving God, though.

[BornandBred]

Considering the context (Moses coming down the mountain to find them worshipping a false God) and that there were, in fact, many competing religions in the region, I don't think it's too big of a stretch to think that the first commandment is specifically targeted towards people who worship other gods. The case can certainly be generalized towards things that become more important than loving God, though.

Well, in this case, I think you are correct in your interpretation. They turned from God to worship a golden bull. But, I'd counter with the argument that I used before: I don't think a benevolent God damns those that follow the only faith they've ever known, say some random African faith or Islam or something. I mean, we are all products of our cultural upbringing.

But, I also filter a large portion of the bible because it was written by foulable men.

[Frozen Sooner]

Can't recall where I heard about this but I believe there's a doctrine that addresses those who were faithful without hearing of Christ. However, supposedly if you've been witnessed to and refuse the call then you're toast.

[BornandBred]

To me, that brings up the issue of reincarnation or purgatory. But, I know very little of the bible's stance on these. I think catholics believe in a purgatory, but I'm pretty sure most christian faiths reject reincarnation. I dunno.

[JLEW1818]

To me, that brings up the issue of reincarnation or purgatory. But, I know very little of the bible's stance on these. I think catholics believe in a purgatory, but I'm pretty sure most christian faiths reject reincarnation. I dunno.

ya, Catholics do believe in purgatory. Protestants believe in a heaven and a hell only, for the most part. Some Catholics reject purgatory.

me myself, I'm the best kind one can be:

Christian Republican Sooner. :D

[olevetonahill]

This sums it up pretty well :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDWQ8w829tY&feature=PlayList&p=08AE1E5B106FDC6C&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=2

[SoonerKnight]

Jesus was for universal health care?

[tommieharris91]

Jesus was for universal health care?

And for margaritas.

[Fraggle145]

ya, Catholics do believe in purgatory. Protestants believe in a heaven and a hell only, for the most part. Some Catholics reject purgatory.

me myself, I'm the best kind one can be:

Christian Republican Sooner. :D

ya they do I grew up catholic. Their bible is also different. because christians cant even make up their own mind about what they believe should be in our out. Not to mention what gets lost in translation from like 8 different languages until it was cut down and rehashed to be the King James bible or whichever one you read. And there are umpteen versions of that all with different langauge that can be read different ways. For example how many versions and endings have you heard of the Our Father/Lord's Prayer.

[Fraggle145]

1) i tolerate religion, i don't tolerate when someone tries to tell me that it's dumb to not believe in God because of all this "logic". Pascal's Wager being a good example.

2) it could also be driven by the fact that our overconsumption of oil makes us have to deal with people we don't really like while making them rich.
and i'm pretty sure we'd never have gone into Iraq twice if we weren't hooked on oil. it's obvious that the auto industry and consumers forgot all about the 70's oil problems with the way every other car on the road is an SUV with one person in it.

1) exactly. yet when we bring that up we are whiny titty babies trying to kill Jesus, which is what pisses me off (for the most part, not you hubler). But when its turned against us its "right" which supposedly makes it okay. Probably the same thing Hubler gets with being mormon. Drives me up the wall.

[def_lazer_fc]

i would like to think that anything so serious as determining whether you spend an eternity in heaven or hell would be made a little simpler for such an imperfect species as humans. kinda a big deal. to leave it all to "faith" just seems crazy. if there was proof that there was a god, than hell yeah, i would give him props. but i haven't seen or found anything in my life to lead me to believe in such a diety. it would seem pretty ****ty to sentence someone to an eternity in hell who never believed b/c of no evidence. because any "belief" by myself would be a false one. its not a rejection of god. because atheists dont believe there is one to reject. if it was so dang important to believe in God, than maybe God should make himself more accessible.

[JLEW1818]

I'll play my cards with Christianity.

[BornandBred]

i would like to think that anything so serious as determining whether you spend an eternity in heaven or hell would be made a little simpler for such an imperfect species as humans. kinda a big deal. to leave it all to "faith" just seems crazy. if there was proof that there was a god, than hell yeah, i would give him props. but i haven't seen or found anything in my life to lead me to believe in such a diety. it would seem pretty ****ty to sentence someone to an eternity in hell who never believed b/c of no evidence. because any "belief" by myself would be a false one. its not a rejection of god. because atheists dont believe there is one to reject. if it was so dang important to believe in God, than maybe God should make himself more accessible.

Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but it's early: Isn't someone who just doesn't have enough proof to believe but hasn't ruled against a God agnostic? I mean, I think the idea of being an atheist is that you've been educated, and decided it just wasn't possible. Agnostics just don't think there is proof but are willing to be convinced. I think it's a small distinction, but worth noting.

[OU4LIFE]

Common sense is hard.

isn't THAT the truth.

You effing tree huggers better just leave me and my truck alone.

[yermom]

it's your next truck that might be the problem :D

[stoops the eternal pimp]

This thread has made me confused....

I drive a f150 supercrew regency badlander with a 6 inch lift and I get about 13 mpg.......Does that mean that I'm going to hell?

[BornandBred]

This thread has made me confused....

I drive a f150 supercrew regency badlander with a 6 inch lift and I get about 13 mpg.......Does that mean that I'm going to hell?

Only if you enjoy it.

[yermom]

This thread has made me confused....

I drive a f150 supercrew regency badlander with a 6 inch lift and I get about 13 mpg.......Does that mean that I'm going to hell?

yeah, sorry :D

i'm not exactly thrilled about this either, because the easy way to accomplish this is to cut power. i kinda like the horsepower wars going on in the last few years. but this is also about averages, not minimums, isn't it?

there have to be other ways though. like maybe a 2nd, more aggressive overdrive gear for the highway? although, i doubt highway driving is the big problem.

[OU4LIFE]

it's your next truck that might be the problem :D

It will be a problem because they will want 50,000 for a F150 regular cab 4WD.

bastards.

[TheBobbyTrain]

This thread has made me confused....

I drive a f150 supercrew regency badlander with a 6 inch lift and I get about 13 mpg.......Does that mean that I'm going to hell?



i'm just wondering where i'll be going. i use a 1988 Chevy Blazer K5 to pull a ski boat to the lake and back. 16 cylinders - 0 catalytic converters.

plus my daily driver is an SUV...

[NYC Poke]

i can't quite wrap my brain around the fact that there are more tragedies than miracles



How do you know this?

You're obviously not an OSU fan.

[Frozen Sooner]

Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but it's early: Isn't someone who just doesn't have enough proof to believe but hasn't ruled against a God agnostic? I mean, I think the idea of being an atheist is that you've been educated, and decided it just wasn't possible. Agnostics just don't think there is proof but are willing to be convinced. I think it's a small distinction, but worth noting.

Not really.

I'm an atheist, but I'm willing to be convinced were I provided with credible evidence of God's existence.

An atheist is someone who has looked at the available evidence and made a decision. An agnostic is someone who has looked at the available evidence and hasn't. Doesn't mean an atheist couldn't change their mind-there just doesn't seem to be any reason to.

[BornandBred]

Not really.

I'm an atheist, but I'm willing to be convinced were I provided with credible evidence of God's existence.

An atheist is someone who has looked at the available evidence and made a decision. An agnostic is someone who has looked at the available evidence and hasn't. Doesn't mean an atheist couldn't change their mind-there just doesn't seem to be any reason to.

Fair enough.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

i would like to think that anything so serious as determining whether you spend an eternity in heaven or hell would be made a little simpler for such an imperfect species as humans. kinda a big deal. to leave it all to "faith" just seems crazy. if there was proof that there was a god, than hell yeah, i would give him props. but i haven't seen or found anything in my life to lead me to believe in such a diety. it would seem pretty ****ty to sentence someone to an eternity in hell who never believed b/c of no evidence. because any "belief" by myself would be a false one. its not a rejection of god. because atheists dont believe there is one to reject. if it was so dang important to believe in God, than maybe God should make himself more accessible.

And Thomas said,

"Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe."

[Veritas]

Ok, so this thread has jumped the ****ing rails so high that I don't know if it can land, but here's my take:

Obama may, with his naive utopian agendas, end up playing a successful game of chicken with two monolithic industries, auto making and health care. He may end up accidentally affecting positive change because both of these industries, especially health care, are "suddenly" finding ways to reduce costs to the end user or creating products that are more efficient.

Folks, "green" power is a good thing. It's become a cult of sorts and conservatives like me develop this knee-jerk "up yours, tree hugger, I'm going to go burn a tire" response, but responsible environmental stewardship is the right thing for humans to pursue. Hell, it's Scriptural.

Obama's agenda will force automakers to commit serious engineering resources to making their products more energy efficient. And they will be successful. Look at today's engines vs engines of the seventies: we make WAY more power per liter with FAR fewer pollutants. And the reason for that is that engineers were forced to move in that direction.