Ex-NU QB suing NCAA and EA Sports

[royalfan5]

http://journalstar.com/blog/huskers.php?title=keller_takes_on_ncaa&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

It will be interesting to see how this works out for him. I'd just assume they cut the kids a check and use their likenesses, instead of the stuff they do now.

[SoonerInFortSmith]

Great! Some crappy basketweaver trying to ruin video games for all of us.

[starclassic tama]

this is stupid. even if he did win and NCAA football used completely random players/jersey numbers/stats, you could still edit the roster and the downloads would just change everything back to the real life counterparts. waste of time

[SoonerInFortSmith]

Even if the court said the NCAA can't make downloads available they will still be done privately. The only way to really prevent it is to make the rosters uneditable. And I don't see any way the courts could do that.

[starclassic tama]

why does this dude even care? it's not like his #9 for nebraska was making the game fly off the shelves like hot cakes. i could see maybe a heisman winner suing for this, but not some average quarterback who played 1 worthless year at nebraska.

[royalfan5]

why does this dude even care? it's not like his #9 for nebraska was making the game fly off the shelves like hot cakes. i could see maybe a heisman winner suing for this, but not some average quarterback who played 1 worthless year at nebraska.

He was probably recruited to be the face of the lawsuit by a group of lawyers who wanted to take this on.

[SoonerInFortSmith]

He sucked and has no future so he wants a quick buck and 15 minutes of lame I mean fame.

[badger]

He sucked and has no future so he wants a quick buck and 15 minutes of lame I mean fame.

this is probably close to the truth

[yermom]

EA and the NCAA make money on that kid's identity. would you buy the game every year if it wasn't based on the real players?

it's a joke the way it is now.

[Curly Bill]

I gotta admit -- I kinda like that they're trying to stick it to the NCAA here.

[Collier11]

we did want him in Norman from what I remember

[OU-HSV]

What a jackass

[Curly Bill]

we did want him in Norman from what I remember

That was before we knew he was so litigious. ;)



:D

[Scott D]

Comment from: Exiled in VT [Visitor]
This reminds me of the stand QB Eagles took against Tecmo
Super Bowl.

Classic.

[Collier11]

good thing, he sucked anyway...honestly im all for the ncaa getting screwed and having to give up some of their money

[Curly Bill]

good thing, he sucked anyway...honestly im all for the ncaa getting screwed and having to give up some of their money


ding...ding...ding...winner!

[setem]

Im going to be PI-issed if they screw with my favorite game of all time!

[Collier11]

how can this lawsuit affect 'hide the gerbil'???

[RedstickSooner]

Moron. It's not a wink-and-nod agreement with the NCAA: It's a wink-and-nod agreement with CUSTOMERS.

They make & sell the game engine. Rosters are entirely up to the player, and that's done deliberately. The suit is without merit, problem is, most judges don't play much of the Playbox, or the Niptendo.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I play with niptendos every chance I get!

[OUstud]

Classic.

Best game ever.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Tecmo ruled. I'm undefeated on all of them.

[olevetonahill]

Bet he gets nuthing But a
Dried up Corn Cob up his :D

[batonrougesooner]

This isn't about right and wrong. This is all about money.

The law is a shake down of those who have money/insurance to pay the legalized extortion of the plantiff's bar. The defense is in on it too. They make a mint defending these ridiculous cases.

[badger]

Tecmo ruled. I'm undefeated on all of them.

Touchdown Thurman Thomas! (http://www.lurkmore.com/w/images/9/9c/Thurman_Thomas_Comic.jpg)(mildly NSFW - language)

[yermom]

Moron. It's not a wink-and-nod agreement with the NCAA: It's a wink-and-nod agreement with CUSTOMERS.

They make & sell the game engine. Rosters are entirely up to the player, and that's done deliberately. The suit is without merit, problem is, most judges don't play much of the Playbox, or the Niptendo.

the NCAA takes their $$$ and pretends that the player stats and numbers don't match up to real college players' likenesses

the athletic departments, the NCAA, the networks and EA Sports (soon to be Apple?) make a lot of cash off these amateur athletes

[badger]

the athletic departments, the NCAA, the networks and EA Sports (soon to be Apple?) make a lot of cash off these amateur athletes

Well, if they don't like it, they can always play in the other nationwide football league that does not have video game deals that could potentially exploit their athletes...

football players really don't have a lot of room to complain about the way their leagues are run because unlike other major american sports, there's no alternative.

[yermom]

so that gives him/them less reason to bring the suit?

i'd like to see them just acknowledge it and put the real names on there... they aren't really fooling anyone

[achiro]

I'm with Yermom on this one. The NCAA makes huge $$$ off of these guys but they get nothing for it. He would have a better case if he had franchised, copywritten, or whatever his name like the big name people do to keep control of their name, but whether or not he wins this, he does bring up a very valid point. His suckiness has nothing to do with it. What if it were Peterson wanting some payment for putting him on the cover? Tell me having the popular players on the cover doesn't help sales. If it didn't they wouldn't go to the trouble of having different covers for different parts of the country.

[badger]

My point in bringing up the fact that college-aged football athletes have no alternative to the NCAA is that if this suit is successful, the NCAA is going to have colleges start having players sign waivers on their names and likenesses during their college careers for purposes of stuff like video games... and possibly other things that might not be as fun and desireable.

And if players refuse to sign waivers? Well, they can always go and play... nowhere.

[RedstickSooner]

I'm with Yermom on this one. The NCAA makes huge $$$ off of these guys but they get nothing for it. He would have a better case if he had franchised, copywritten, or whatever his name like the big name people do to keep control of their name, but whether or not he wins this, he does bring up a very valid point. His suckiness has nothing to do with it. What if it were Peterson wanting some payment for putting him on the cover? Tell me having the popular players on the cover doesn't help sales. If it didn't they wouldn't go to the trouble of having different covers for different parts of the country.

I'm pretty sure they pay the players to be on the cover -- whole point of why they use players that have already left the NCAA, so they're eligible to license their likeness for use on things like that.

Sports video games that can't get license rights have been just putting up accurate rosters by number for ages. And the fact is, unless you're a big fan of the player/team, you're not gonna know who the hell a given player is from an off-the-shelf roster.

We're the ones that put names to these numbers. Not the NCAA or EA.

[OUDoc]

Why is the NCAA involved at all? Couldn't the school allow use of school colors and name. Player likeness? They're wearing a helmet and uniform. If they are the correct skin tone and height/weight, he's somehow being harmed? It's a generic likeness at best.
IMO, this kid's a tool.

[Collier11]

The one thing about this lawsuit that is dumb is, how much $ does Sam Keller really expect to get personally? There are 119 D1 teams and the game has 65 per team I believe? So that is 7735 individual players, he might get a check for $1500 which wont even cover the cost of his lawyer

[Scott D]

The one thing about this lawsuit that is dumb is, how much $ does Sam Keller really expect to get personally? There are 119 D1 teams and the game has 65 per team I believe? So that is 7735 individual players, he might get a check for $1.50 which wont even cover the cost of his lawyer

fixed to an actual final check.

[Scott D]

I'm with Yermom on this one. The NCAA makes huge $$$ off of these guys but they get nothing for it. He would have a better case if he had franchised, copywritten, or whatever his name like the big name people do to keep control of their name, but whether or not he wins this, he does bring up a very valid point. His suckiness has nothing to do with it. What if it were Peterson wanting some payment for putting him on the cover? Tell me having the popular players on the cover doesn't help sales. If it didn't they wouldn't go to the trouble of having different covers for different parts of the country.

1. Players on the cover are players who are no longer playing college football, so they likely receive compensation for being on the cover. (Remember the disbelief here when JW wasn't on the cover despite winning the Heisman because he was staying at OU). I doubt Keller was seriously considered for a cover, unless it was for the cover of Chokers Monthly.

2. The argument of the "stats" being the player isn't really valid either. A player can claim 'similarities' however, with the digitized player being from a different (usually not an actual existing) town along with just being a position and number. Truthfully people playing the game could name #9 from Nebraska Booty McFunkenstein from Palo Alto, CA and it doesn't make it Sam Keller any more than it makes it JC Watts.

[badger]

http://i43.tinypic.com/1zxlgly.jpg

:pop:

[Curly Bill]

Wow, I never knew so many of you were anti-player and pro-NCAA?

What would the Boz think of the lot of ya?

[OU-HSV]

I play with niptendos every chance I get!

Niptendos are what makes the world go around. After all, without them...we would be lost in some fantasy world.

[Jacie]

Trading card companies (Topps, Bowman, et al) made their peace with the various players' unions a long time ago in agreeing that every player whose likeness/stats was used would be paid for the privilege. This case seems like an open/shut version of that one. If someone is making money marketing someone else, they better pay em.

[finster]

Here’s to you Sam Keller guy.
You played for some clown at a one time football power.
Who the hell are you are you anyway?
This Buds for you.

[OU-HSV]

Now that I think of it...wasn't the last time we heard of Sam Keller in the sport's news when he first Transferred to Neb and he threw a cup at a lady's car in a parking garage?

Edit: Yep it was him
http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/2007/03/22/dont-take-sam-kellers-parking-spot/

[Readyfor8]

The pro's get money from EA and other game companies if the character is based on them. These characters are based on real people who have not been compensated in any way... They didn't even get a free copy of the game.

If some dude was all Dianne Fossey on your *** in your place of work, and he made a movie about you without your consent you wouldn't want some cash out of that? What if a dude camped outside your house and videotaped you through your windows and then sold it, you shouldn't get a cut out of that?

It's the same thing, they adjust the speed the character moves based on his times. They made Vince Young into a god on NCAA 3 years ago based on his performance that one year. They build these characters based on real live people that in any other situation would get money for this.

[Scott D]

Trading card companies (Topps, Bowman, et al) made their peace with the various players' unions a long time ago in agreeing that every player whose likeness/stats was used would be paid for the privilege. This case seems like an open/shut version of that one. If someone is making money marketing someone else, they better pay em.

Well since it's skill ratings and not stats, once again it's completely subjective as to whether or not the argument holds water of being an actual individual. The only people who could have any argument would be those on the actual covers of the game.

The problem there now is that with photoshopping, anyone can pretty much put anyone they want on the cover which releases EA from any liability. Same with the rosters being position/number with the ability for players to edit them to be actual players.

[badger]

I might listen to the argument more if it wasn't Sam Keller bringing it up. As it stands now, the only thing EA has going for them with the college version of the game is the jersey numbers... otherwise, it's pretty much the same game each and every year.

[OUDoc]

It's the same thing, they adjust the speed the character moves based on his times. They made Vince Young into a god on NCAA 3 years ago based on his performance that one year. They build these characters based on real live people that in any other situation would get money for this.

Except the student athletes will never get any money for this. All that will happen is screwing with a game and it's fans which, in the end, will still find a way to get their players' likenesses on the game.

[Scott D]

The pro's get money from EA and other game companies if the character is based on them. These characters are based on real people who have not been compensated in any way... They didn't even get a free copy of the game.

If some dude was all Dianne Fossey on your *** in your place of work, and he made a movie about you without your consent you wouldn't want some cash out of that? What if a dude camped outside your house and videotaped you through your windows and then sold it, you shouldn't get a cut out of that?

It's the same thing, they adjust the speed the character moves based on his times. They made Vince Young into a god on NCAA 3 years ago based on his performance that one year. They build these characters based on real live people that in any other situation would get money for this.

not so fast my friend. Based on isn't the same as actually being. How often have people sat and looked at the ratings for players and argued that stat A is too low or stat B is too high.

[yermom]

but who is the QB for OU this year that wears #14 and has a 99 OVR?

everyone but the NCAA knows that's Sam Bradford

[badger]

If "based on" was good enough, Elvis' heirs would be trillionaires with all of the impersonators out there :D

[47straight]

I don't know if player number and an independent estimation of stats are enough to be a "likeness" for the purposes of misappropriation.

[yermom]

legally, we'll see, i mean that's kinda what the lawsuit is to establish, i'd imagine

but, to me, ethically, logically, yes, i think it's his likeness

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I hope they don't agree wtih him..that means they'll change the game to being fake players or stop making it all together

[badger]

I think the issue isn't just the video game, but also the name and likeness thing.

We all know that as per NCAA rules, athletes cannot use their names and likeness while they are college athletes to their monetary benefit.

However, colleges and the NCAA can.

Perhaps this rule is justifiable because colleges will spend lots of money training these players to be more healthy and better football athletes, as well as educated students and give them the opportunity of a lifetime to showcase their talents in front of worldwide audiences through television, thousands in attendance each week in stadiums.

Perhaps this rule is B.S. because colleges and the NCAA rolls around in money while the athletes who sacrifice their health, well-being, time and longevity in the sport do not receive direct monetary compensation for their efforts.

Perhaps as a compromise to resolve this issue, a trust fund can be established for each athlete, regardless of which Div. 1 school they attend for football. A certain percentage of money from revenues for things like jerseys or video games could go directly to the players after they are finished being college athletes.

... which of course, would only turn out to be a maybe $100 after they split it evenly among each and every athlete that participates in Div. 1 college football.

[yermom]

I think the issue isn't just the video game, but also the name and likeness thing.

We all know that as per NCAA rules, athletes cannot use their names and likeness while they are college athletes to their monetary benefit.

However, colleges and the NCAA can.

Perhaps this rule is justifiable because colleges will spend lots of money training these players to be more healthy and better football athletes, as well as educated students and give them the opportunity of a lifetime to showcase their talents in front of worldwide audiences through television, thousands in attendance each week in stadiums.

Perhaps this rule is B.S. because colleges and the NCAA rolls around in money while the athletes who sacrifice their health, well-being, time and longevity in the sport do not receive direct monetary compensation for their efforts.

Perhaps as a compromise to resolve this issue, a trust fund can be established for each athlete, regardless of which Div. 1 school they attend for football. A certain percentage of money from revenues for things like jerseys or video games could go directly to the players after they are finished being college athletes.

... which of course, would only turn out to be a maybe $100 after they split it evenly among each and every athlete that participates in Div. 1 college football.

kinda what i was thinking

how many 28 jerseys are floating around?

Travis Lewis isn't getting any of that money :(

[badger]

kinda what i was thinking

how many 28 jerseys are floating around?

Travis Lewis isn't getting any of that money :(

:D another root of the equation... if the jersey has no name on the back, whose jersey is it?

answer: the name on the front's.

[Scott D]

but who is the QB for OU this year that wears #14 and has a 99 OVR?

everyone but the NCAA knows that's Sam Bradford

it's not Sam Bradford, it's a "relatively similar simulation" of Sam Bradford. Once again, EA Sports isn't using the player's actual appearance or name. They also have paid the licensing fees to the NCAA for the usage of the 117 team names, logos, and mascot likenesses.

Using your argument, I guess it'll only be a matter of time before pic gets sued for some of his paintings. Because those more accurately represent particular individuals than some coding.

[Pricetag]

I hope this thing doesn't fly, because like everyone has said, the players won't get the money--we'll just get rosters that are less fun out of the box.

I think EA ran into this same type of problem with their classic team rosters on Madden, and they caved and started mixing up the numbers and skin tones on the players.

[OUDoc]

Exactly, they won't give them the money, just dull the product.
IMO.

[Pricetag]

One more thing--I bet most of the marginal players who know they're not going on to the next level get a kick out of the small slice of immortality being represented in a game gives them.

[yermom]

it's not Sam Bradford, it's a "relatively similar simulation" of Sam Bradford. Once again, EA Sports isn't using the player's actual appearance or name. They also have paid the licensing fees to the NCAA for the usage of the 117 team names, logos, and mascot likenesses.

Using your argument, I guess it'll only be a matter of time before pic gets sued for some of his paintings. Because those more accurately represent particular individuals than some coding.

people in this thread are upset with the fact that they might not reflect real player "simulations" anymore. that's pretty telling. it's a big selling point of the game.

i'd rather them just call it what it is and put their names on the jerseys, but i doubt that will happen

[hgarmorer]

I play with niptendos every chance I get!

I actually perfer my NeoSega DreamCube 2600

[Scott D]

people in this thread are upset with the fact that they might not reflect real player "simulations" anymore. that's pretty telling. it's a big selling point of the game.

i'd rather them just call it what it is and put their names on the jerseys, but i doubt that will happen

Truthfully you could argue that none of the players have ever completely accurately reflected the players they are supposed to be. That's always been a point of contention when the ratings are 'leaked'. How many times have people complained that player A doesn't look anything like player A does in real life. I remember the whole going on and on because when 08 was released, Phil Loadholt was a big fat white guy.

Why should EA be held responsible if you are the one who changes the name and perhaps ratings of QB#14 for OU to more accurately (in your perception) reflect Sam Bradford? Or if you use Photoshop to remove Brian Johnson from the cover of NCAA '10 to put Demarco Murray on the cover of your own copy?

[Readyfor8]

Except the student athletes will never get any money for this. All that will happen is screwing with a game and it's fans which, in the end, will still find a way to get their players' likenesses on the game.

You say that, unless the money is put into a trust until the player graduates or forfeits his eligibility. Jim Traber got a check because he was on some baseball game a few years ago, it wasn't a ton of money but it was still something.

Again pro players get money for this, it is considered their likeness, and if someone makes a movie based on your life even if it is dramatized they still have to pay you for it, even if it was unrelated.

If they made a movie where a Comic named Shane Parks was really funny, even though i am only kinda funny, they will still end up paying me. These players are getting ripped off by the NCAA because they are amateurs, if your son or daughter was getting screwed like this, I guarantee you would be pissed too.

[Readyfor8]

Truthfully you could argue that none of the players have ever completely accurately reflected the players they are supposed to be. That's always been a point of contention when the ratings are 'leaked'. How many times have people complained that player A doesn't look anything like player A does in real life. I remember the whole going on and on because when 08 was released, Phil Loadholt was a big fat white guy.

Why should EA be held responsible if you are the one who changes the name and perhaps ratings of QB#14 for OU to more accurately (in your perception) reflect Sam Bradford? Or if you use Photoshop to remove Brian Johnson from the cover of NCAA '10 to put Demarco Murray on the cover of your own copy?

Do you think OU is getting paid for the game using it's logo? You bet your *** they are, so why should the students be left holding the bag. Doesn't matter how close to reality it is, if the character is based on someone who is real then that player better get a check when he graduates.

It's like this, some of those teams on the game are better than others, those teams are better because of the talent on the team they are on, and because of the school they attend. If Team A is superior to Team B in the game because Team A was ranked higher or is traditionally ranked higher, then that Team is based on reality and the hard work of the school, athletes, and coaches. Those games get sold because they are so close to reality, if they renamed the University UO and made us wear purple, they wouldn't sell any damn games.

Therefor EA is making money of the reality of the sport being played so that people can feel like they are part of the action. Sure they have had players misrepresented, but that doesn't mean they didn't try to represent the player to begin with. Just because I draw poorly doesn't mean I can draw people and sell their likeness without their permission.

EA is over the barrel on this one, and something will break... Here's hoping its the NCAA.

[Scott D]

Do you think OU is getting paid for the game using it's logo? You bet your *** they are, so why should the students be left holding the bag. Doesn't matter how close to reality it is, if the character is based on someone who is real then that player better get a check when he graduates.

It's like this, some of those teams on the game are better than others, those teams are better because of the talent on the team they are on, and because of the school they attend. If Team A is superior to Team B in the game because Team A was ranked higher or is traditionally ranked higher, then that Team is based on reality and the hard work of the school, athletes, and coaches. Those games get sold because they are so close to reality, if they renamed the University UO and made us wear purple, they wouldn't sell any damn games.

Therefor EA is making money of the reality of the sport being played so that people can feel like they are part of the action. Sure they have had players misrepresented, but that doesn't mean they didn't try to represent the player to begin with. Just because I draw poorly doesn't mean I can draw people and sell their likeness without their permission.

EA is over the barrel on this one, and something will break... Here's hoping its the NCAA.

not going to happen.

EA and the NCAA have far better lawyers than some ********* has been QB who really wasn't all that good.

Also, the precedent was set with games like Tecmo Bowl where Randal Cunningham was EaglesQB due to licensing agreements. For the early years of Madden before they got the NFL license they tweaked the names of players and teams to be accurate, yet inaccurate.

Should Steven Spielberg and George Lucas sue a video game for a character that wears a fedora and has the name of Dakota Harrison?

[SoonerShark]

If somebody uses your likeness and efforts they should compensate you. Even if your name is not set out reasonable folks would know it was you. Pay the man. Pay the men. Coaches and college programs are nothing without the players.

[SoonerShark]

If you write "Hey Jude" you should make more than the publisher. It is like all of those folks who failed to pay artists who performed years ago. Why should the oppressors make more than the performers? They shouldn't. We shall overcome.

[Scott D]

except what has gotten lost in this thread is that Keller is miffed because people can "download" rosters with actual player names within minutes of having the game.

Apparently he needs to sue the console makers, the internet, and his parents as well.

[royalfan5]

except what has gotten lost in this thread is that Keller is miffed because people can "download" rosters with actual player names within minutes of having the game.

Apparently he needs to sue the console makers, the internet, and his parents as well.

Let's not delude ourselves into thinking that Keller is the brains behind this operation. He is the perfect test case because he was a starter with two BCS programs and as such makes a better example for the lawyers. It is more a case of a lawyer(s) who had been developing this case for awhile and needed a face for the case, and Keller fit the bill better than most out there.

[Scott D]

Let's not delude ourselves into thinking that Keller is the brains behind this operation. He is the perfect test case because he was a starter with two BCS programs and as such makes a better example for the lawyers. It is more a case of a lawyer(s) who had been developing this case for awhile and needed a face for the case, and Keller fit the bill better than most out there.

he should still sue his parents for not giving him better judgment.

[PSchu888]

Badger, funny pic on your earlier post. It would be even funnier if it was Sam Keller and not Joe Ganz.

[SoonerInFortSmith]

Badger, funny pic on your earlier post. It would be even funnier if it was Sam Keller and not Joe Ganz.

:cry:
And this would be funnier if it was a baby crying, not you. Who gives a rat's arse which nebbish wannabe qb is in the pic. Why do you even know the diff? Think you stumbled on the wrong message board. Maybe too much cornshine.

[PSchu888]

Lighten up Ft. Smith. Thanks for the hospitality. Almost like being in Austin.