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TUSooner
5/4/2009, 12:59 PM
This ought to be a poll, I guess, but I never figured out how to set one up. But I digress. Here's the situation: You have a child who is about a year from college, and who is pretty smart in many areas of knowledge but inclined toward, say, art or music or theater or writing or "that sort of thing." Do you say:

1. Go with what you love. If you love it enough to devote yourself to it, you'll succeed, and besides, if "working" at the thing you love doesn't seem like work, it's like never having to work and you're better off than most people anyway.

2. Go for the money (accounting, finance, law, whatever) even if you don't really like it. Money brings security, and if you make enough, you'll probably be able to create enough time to do the things you love "on the side."

Of course, if you love being an accountant or an engineer, no problem!

Let the shenanigans ensue.

Boomer.....
5/4/2009, 01:04 PM
You have to love what you do. Even if you are in a much higher paying job that you hate, it is not worth it.

StoopTroup
5/4/2009, 01:05 PM
Both....then let her choose.

sooner_born_1960
5/4/2009, 01:16 PM
If this hypothetical person likes stuff like food, insurance, transportation, and clothing, the answer is obvious.

BornandBred
5/4/2009, 01:28 PM
Tell them to get a business degree. They can do their love on the side, and hopefully someday use the degree to capitalize on what they love to do.

OUDoc
5/4/2009, 01:34 PM
You've got to like what you do.

olevetonahill
5/4/2009, 01:35 PM
If they can make a decent living doing what they LOVE , then go for it

badger
5/4/2009, 01:41 PM
You have a child ... inclined toward, say, art or music or theater or writing or "that sort of thing."
Understand that there is money to be made in these fields, just as there is in business or accounting, etc.

If there are any degrees to avoid like the plague it would be ones that end in a question/exclamation mark, as in "What do I do with this degree?!" With a music education/performance degree, there's no question (you teach or perform music!). With a professional writing degree, no question (you write!). With a meteorology degree, no question (you study meteors! wait...)

No knocks on the A&S college, but a lot of their majors have huge question/exclamation mark combos.

jage
5/4/2009, 01:47 PM
Do what they love, but make sure they will be able to get a job with it.

If the your kid is an artist, I would highly recommend graphic design. Some graphic designers, although starting out low, can end up making 70K-100K within 10 years of their career.

SoonerJack
5/4/2009, 01:54 PM
but artists usually do not appreciate (tolerate?) some of the drudgery involved in graphic design.

But TU brings up a great question, and it falls under one of my categories of parental no-no's. We don't get to pick who they marry. We don't get to pick where they live. And we don't get to pick what they do for a living.

Unless you are my dentist: his son "knew" he was going to be a oro-maxillo-facillo-surgeon since pre-school. ;-)

BudSooner
5/4/2009, 01:57 PM
This ought to be a poll, I guess, but I never figured out how to set one up. But I digress. Here's the situation: You have a child who is about a year from college, and who is pretty smart in many areas of knowledge but inclined toward, say, art or music or theater or writing or "that sort of thing." Do you say:

1. Go with what you love. If you love it enough to devote yourself to it, you'll succeed, and besides, if "working" at the thing you love doesn't seem like work, it's like never having to work and you're better off than most people anyway.

2. Go for the money (accounting, finance, law, whatever) even if you don't really like it. Money brings security, and if you make enough, you'll probably be able to create enough time to do the things you love "on the side."

Of course, if you love being an accountant or an engineer, no problem!

Let the shenanigans ensue.

1. Easily, you already said it yourself, if you love what you do then there area things that can be done to improve upon the type of work you enjoy...that way it doesn't become a overbearing drudgery sort of thing.
Make it a fun part of your life, it's too short as it is.

2. While going for the money sounds good, it only will lead to getting old and bitter. I:E:see Dean. :D

badger
5/4/2009, 02:01 PM
But TU brings up a great question, and it falls under one of my categories of parental no-no's. We don't get to pick who they marry. We don't get to pick where they live. And we don't get to pick what they do for a living.

But hey, you do get to pick how you spend the money you personally earned, so if you disapprove of who they marry, then you don't have to contribute anything to the wedding (including your attendance). If your kid wants to live at home and not follow your rules, you can kick them out after they turn 18... and as far as what they do for a living, perhaps you can really test them on it, if you feel strongly enough on the issue.

If you are of the opinion that college should only be a means to a high paying, lucrative career, only offer to contribute to college funds if they choose certain degrees. If they insist on following their own ideas for their education without regard for your input, don't contribute your own money to the education efforts.

I'm not saying I agree with any of the above sentiments - I don't think I could ever kick a family member out of a house in a time of need, or not show up to their wedding, or not contribute to education if I could afford it - but those are definitely options for parents.

TUSooner
5/4/2009, 02:15 PM
It's most definitely not a question of MY picking anything.
But sometimes kids actually want some help deciding.... even if they only want to know what you think so they can do the opposite. :D

FroggyStyle22
5/4/2009, 02:30 PM
I wouldn't worry too much about it. They will get in to college and figure things out from there. If they need an answer today I would suggest a double major or to go with what they love but take pre-requisites for what they might do as electives. They will probably change majors at somepoint along the way. Good luck and congrats on having a child actually make it to college (not as common as it should be).

NYC Poke
5/4/2009, 02:32 PM
If the child is talented enough to get into one of the elite schools in the field, like Juliard or Berkeley for music or Rhode Island School of Design for visual arts, I'd encourage the child to continue in that field.

If not, I would encourage the child to get a double major and attempt to work in the industry surrounded whatever field the child is interested. For instance, theater may sound like a joke major, but the theater industry here is big and I know several people who do very well working in it (old timers in the stagehands unions probably make more than I do).

Collier11
5/4/2009, 02:33 PM
Do what makes her happy, once she gets to college she will likely change her mind 5 or 6 times anyway, I certainly did

LilSooner
5/4/2009, 02:45 PM
All pretty good responses. My only advice would be to sit down and talk money with them. Going to 100,000 dollar school to get a degree that is only going to get you a job paying 30,000= dumb. If they want to do what they love and it just so happens to be something that isn't going to equate a huge paycheck for the love of god don't let them rack up huge student loan debt.

soonermix
5/4/2009, 02:49 PM
two words... Double Major

SanJoaquinSooner
5/4/2009, 03:54 PM
what you love.

stoops the eternal pimp
5/4/2009, 04:09 PM
I would tell them to get information on what he/she "loves"...get to know people in that industry, find out how they got where they are at, learn about expenses, schools, what opportunities exist, don't exist...

royalfan5
5/4/2009, 04:10 PM
Seriously, double major. With good planning at the right school, a triple major isn't that hard to pull off either.

JohnnyMack
5/4/2009, 04:21 PM
I wish I had smoked more weed in college.

47straight
5/4/2009, 04:39 PM
I'm going to be totally sexist. My advice would depend upon whether the kid was a guy or gal. If it was a guy, I'd make him go through the exercise of how exactly he was going to back his student loans, support a family, etc. after getting such an education. It is crucial that a young man think these things through, because in reality the vast number of men don't have a choice of whether to work or stay home with the kids. You could do the same if it was a young woman, but the consequences just aren't as severe.

TU, the most important thing to remember is that this is your advice, not directive. You're allowed to have an opinion from the experience of your years. The kid will have to live with the life that they create for themselves either way.

OU_Sooners75
5/5/2009, 02:57 AM
First thing is...
Explain to them to choose a college that they will feel very comfortable at.

If the child is wanting to pursue the arts, then there are plenty of very good liberal arts colleges in this country. And you do not have to attend the top rated ones to get the best teachings. Those top rated ones are good for helping land jobs in that field though...but the draw back is they are a lot more expensive.

Other than that. I would go after a degree that I enjoy doing. It is not worth doing something if you do not enjoy it. And if finances become a problem after they earn that degree, they could always go back and get something else.

Or, the best option is to double major. Earn two degrees at a time from the same school. Then they can choose which, or both, fields to go into and to do the other on the side.

Whatever you do....YOU DO NOT PICK ONE.

You sit the child down and have a serious talk with them about the subject. Lay out all the options...including school options. Then let them decide on their own....do not show favoritism in either of the options. But back the decision they make.

AND FOR THE LOVE of GOD....if their decision turns out to be incorrect, do not do or say anything that could be taken as a "I told you so" attitude.

SoonerJack
5/5/2009, 07:56 AM
Seriously, double major. With good planning at the right school, a triple major isn't that hard to pull off either.

Double, yeah. Triple? No says I.

Why not throw a little of that tuition at a master's or PhD?

I know a teacher with 3 BS degrees and no master's. He makes the same as teachers with a single BS. [doh]

badger
5/5/2009, 08:06 AM
I'm going to be totally sexist.
Pig :P

My advice would depend upon whether the kid was a guy or gal. If it was a guy, I'd make him go through the exercise of how exactly he was going to back his student loans, support a family, etc. after getting such an education.

I am going to totally ignore the fact that I'm a chick and agree with you. Women get paid less for doing the same job for a reason - men are usually the breadwinners of the household, while a woman's income is just extra gravy. Some could cry "unfair!" at this, but being paid more for the same job means less job security when boss is trying to decide whether the same worker doing the same job making $10,000 more is really worth it... and usually not, especially in a recession.

If a dude's goal is to eventually get married, have a family and provide for other dependents, then definitely force the idea on him what paying back loans are like, whether they be mortgages, student loans or car payments.

:D NP and I finally paid off the car he got a few years ago. We are probably never going to get a new car again after those [email protected] payments.

C&CDean
5/5/2009, 08:10 AM
If your child is a male, I'd have to say he's gay.

If your child is a female, I'd have to say "go with your heart, but make sure you meet a hard working male and hook up ASAP cause you're gonna need some $$ to feed your face and stuff."

I know your child is female, so disregard #1 and go with #2.

badger
5/5/2009, 08:15 AM
If your child is a female, I'd have to say "go with your heart, but make sure you meet a hard working male and hook up ASAP cause you're gonna need some $$ to feed your face and stuff."

My grandparents were all happy and excited about me and NP, even while I was still in college, but showed less enthusiasm with my brother in the middle of his Ph.D. work or my male cousin still in the middle of his bachelor's degree work got married.

Gots to luuuuv teh dubble standards when they apply positively to you. I'll cry "sexism" only when it's convenient :D

TUSooner
5/5/2009, 09:42 AM
I wish I had smoked more weed in college.
I think I smoked enough in 1977 alone to cover the college years of everybody on this board.

Actually, I have to commend everyone for the responses, which were sensible and thoughtful. Even Dean's, in that particular Deanish way. :D

At our house, I think we've been over essentially everything that's been mentioned, which gives me some degree of comfort (although maybe it should scare the crap out of me! -- I jest ). So... thanks.

OhU1
5/5/2009, 10:21 AM
I would encourage avoiding racking up debt at all cost. The last thing she needs is a $50,000 student loan debt coming out of school. With such a debt to repay she may not have a choice to "do what she loves."

There are few sure bets out there (outside of medicine). The legal profession long considered recession proof is under major economic stress. Check out the site "Above the Law" for the fall out and upheaval in the world of BIG LAW. http://abovethelaw.com

Jello Biafra
5/5/2009, 10:57 AM
ok. how bout this.....

12 Year old male....

good athlete and good student. loves wrestling and football equally and is shooting for an athletic scolarship and loves shipwrecks...reading about them watching all the shows on tv etc..

(i dont understand why because i will not get in water that i can't see the bottom and it doesnt have concrete...beside the point...)


states he wants to become a marine biologist. 1st... i know nothing about this subject and i have actually failed biology and algebra on more than one occasion.
2nd. he WILL be leaving home...WILL. no MARINE biology in oklahoma.


MOMS: what would you do?
his mom is happy because he is not allowing geography determine his path but is sad because...well, he wont be any where close to us.

i mentioned he is a good student? like advanced math and science good...(Bs in both classes)cornell has wrestling and football and is apparently one of the best marine biology schools in the country...however, its on the other side of the earth.....hes not an outstanding athlete but has good work ethics...


i realize this is him making this decision at 12 but thats how he and his mother roll. very good at planning where as his little brother and i tend to lay around in our underoos, scratch ourselves and grunt...

anyone? i know i have a bunch of time but im interested in trying to "guide him" to a science degree in oklahoma. I figure if he gets a academic scholly, he can always walk on at OU no? ;)

47straight
5/5/2009, 11:09 AM
ok. how bout this.....

12 Year old male....

good athlete and good student. loves wrestling and football equally and is shooting for an athletic scolarship and loves shipwrecks...reading about them watching all the shows on tv etc..

(i dont understand why because i will not get in water that i can't see the bottom and it doesnt have concrete...beside the point...)


states he wants to become a marine biologist. 1st... i know nothing about this subject and i have actually failed biology and algebra on more than one occasion.
2nd. he WILL be leaving home...WILL. no MARINE biology in oklahoma.


MOMS: what would you do?
his mom is happy because he is not allowing geography determine his path but is sad because...well, he wont be any where close to us.

i mentioned he is a good student? like advanced math and science good...(Bs in both classes)cornell has wrestling and football and is apparently one of the best marine biology schools in the country...however, its on the other side of the earth.....hes not an outstanding athlete but has good work ethics...


i realize this is him making this decision at 12 but thats how he and his mother roll. very good at planning where as his little brother and i tend to lay around in our underoos, scratch ourselves and grunt...

anyone? i know i have a bunch of time but im interested in trying to "guide him" to a science degree in oklahoma. I figure if he gets a academic scholly, he can always walk on at OU no? ;)


Every science-type kid want's to do marine biology at some point. :P It may well pass.

badger
5/5/2009, 11:16 AM
Every science-type kid want's to do marine biology at some point. :P It may well pass.

Have him take a trip to study marine biology for a few weeks first... which pretty much means that the kid will be vacationing in a tropical area with a lot of sun and beachiness in the summer... then you will be virtually assured that the kid will never want to play football in the mud and snow ever again.

NYC Poke
5/5/2009, 11:24 AM
ok. how bout this.....

12 Year old male....

good athlete and good student. loves wrestling and football equally and is shooting for an athletic scolarship and loves shipwrecks...reading about them watching all the shows on tv etc..

(i dont understand why because i will not get in water that i can't see the bottom and it doesnt have concrete...beside the point...)


states he wants to become a marine biologist. 1st... i know nothing about this subject and i have actually failed biology and algebra on more than one occasion.
2nd. he WILL be leaving home...WILL. no MARINE biology in oklahoma.


MOMS: what would you do?
his mom is happy because he is not allowing geography determine his path but is sad because...well, he wont be any where close to us.

i mentioned he is a good student? like advanced math and science good...(Bs in both classes)cornell has wrestling and football and is apparently one of the best marine biology schools in the country...however, its on the other side of the earth.....hes not an outstanding athlete but has good work ethics...


i realize this is him making this decision at 12 but thats how he and his mother roll. very good at planning where as his little brother and i tend to lay around in our underoos, scratch ourselves and grunt...

anyone? i know i have a bunch of time but im interested in trying to "guide him" to a science degree in oklahoma. I figure if he gets a academic scholly, he can always walk on at OU no? ;)

Check Stanford. I know admission is a long shot, but surely they have a marine biology program. And my ex-gf's brother works for the medical school there, and he works out with the wrestling team, so I know they have that.

C&CDean
5/5/2009, 11:34 AM
ok. how bout this.....

12 Year old male....

good athlete and good student. loves wrestling and football equally and is shooting for an athletic scolarship and loves shipwrecks...reading about them watching all the shows on tv etc..

(i dont understand why because i will not get in water that i can't see the bottom and it doesnt have concrete...beside the point...)


states he wants to become a marine biologist. 1st... i know nothing about this subject and i have actually failed biology and algebra on more than one occasion.
2nd. he WILL be leaving home...WILL. no MARINE biology in oklahoma.


MOMS: what would you do?
his mom is happy because he is not allowing geography determine his path but is sad because...well, he wont be any where close to us.

i mentioned he is a good student? like advanced math and science good...(Bs in both classes)cornell has wrestling and football and is apparently one of the best marine biology schools in the country...however, its on the other side of the earth.....hes not an outstanding athlete but has good work ethics...


i realize this is him making this decision at 12 but thats how he and his mother roll. very good at planning where as his little brother and i tend to lay around in our underoos, scratch ourselves and grunt...

anyone? i know i have a bunch of time but im interested in trying to "guide him" to a science degree in oklahoma. I figure if he gets a academic scholly, he can always walk on at OU no? ;)

I had a kid almost exactly like you describe. Except my kid was straight As in everything.

He's 27 now, and welds trailers. He's happy, but it's not what I'd have thought he would end up doing.

TUSooner
5/5/2009, 11:43 AM
I had a kid almost exactly like you describe. Except my kid was straight As in everything.

He's 27 now, and welds trailers. He's happy, but it's not what I'd have thought he would end up doing.

I knew a very successful lawyer, a corner-office partner in an elite firm in the tallest building in town, who once said, "If I could make any money digging ditches, I'd start tomorrow." I guess that says something about happiness, not sure exactly what. :)

OhU1
5/5/2009, 11:58 AM
I knew a very successful lawyer, a corner-office partner in an elite firm in the tallest building in town, who once said, "If I could make any money digging ditches, I'd start tomorrow." I guess that says something about happiness, not sure exactly what. :)

It says that life in Big Law is no fun but pays too well to do anything else. These firms put you in a pair of "Golden Handcuffs".

royalfan5
5/5/2009, 04:29 PM
Double, yeah. Triple? No says I.

Why not throw a little of that tuition at a master's or PhD?

I know a teacher with 3 BS degrees and no master's. He makes the same as teachers with a single BS. [doh]

At my undergrad school, 12 to 24 credits costs the same, so I always took 20-21 every semester. I ended up with a double major/double minor. I figured if it costs the same, why not get the extra learning. That will vary from school to school. As far as Grad School, in many disciplines if you are paying for it, you are doing it wrong.

def_lazer_fc
5/6/2009, 12:42 AM
money is definately not everything. so i dont really think that should factor into it. i'd much rather do something i like and make less, than doing something i hate making more. if one can make a living (pay the bills) doing something they love, they are indeed lucky, bc most people dont have the luxury of actually liking their work. and there is a big difference between liking and being able to tolerate.

but i totally see your viewpoint of wanting them to be successful at the same time. but people can be successful in more ways than just the paycheck they bring home every two weeks.

Jello Biafra
5/6/2009, 08:28 AM
I had a kid almost exactly like you describe. Except my kid was straight As in everything.

He's 27 now, and welds trailers. He's happy, but it's not what I'd have thought he would end up doing.


also, THIS brings up another question for you education minded peeps ;)

is it better to have a lower grade in an advanced class or higher grades in a regular class? i've heard both sides with most people leaning towards lower grades in advanced. of course, i keep thinking of the bottom line which to me, is the GPA.

badger
5/6/2009, 08:44 AM
also, THIS brings up another question for you education minded peeps ;)

is it better to have a lower grade in an advanced class or higher grades in a regular class? i've heard both sides with most people leaning towards lower grades in advanced. of course, i keep thinking of the bottom line which to me, is the GPA.

In college or in high school?

In high school, it is better to go for GPA because of scholarships related to GPA (like Oklahoma Higher Learning Access Plan/OHLAP) as well as local awards for class status (like valedictorian).

In college, it is better to learn something. People that were more obsessed with GPA in college seemed to be the ones that didn't get anything out of their degree and end up working in another field not related to the education they were supposed to get... or they just continue their studies to get another few degrees to add to their resume, heh.

At least in my field, it's better to have experience than GPA... I say this despite the fact my GPA was pretty good

Jello Biafra
5/6/2009, 08:47 AM
In college or in high school?

In high school, it is better to go for GPA because of scholarships related to GPA (like Oklahoma Higher Learning Access Plan/OHLAP) as well as local awards for class status (like valedictorian).

In college, it is better to learn something. People that were more obsessed with GPA in college seemed to be the ones that didn't get anything out of their degree and end up working in another field not related to the education they were supposed to get... or they just continue their studies to get another few degrees to add to their resume, heh.

At least in my field, it's better to have experience than GPA... I say this despite the fact my GPA was pretty good



well we are talking about a 12 year old in advanced math and advanced science. so, i guess i got my answer. i know they don't look that far back so i suppose it would be better to learn all you can as early as possible.

badger
5/6/2009, 08:54 AM
well we are talking about a 12 year old in advanced math and advanced science. so, i guess i got my answer. i know they don't look that far back so i suppose it would be better to learn all you can as early as possible.

As a formerly baaaaad student at her age, I would agree that it is better to take the knowledge before the GPA factors into things such as class status, OHLAP, and awards/schollys.

Seriously, my 7th grade report card is shamefully awful (did you know that D grades are still passing? heh heh...) Graduating third in my class five years later goes to show that GPA in middle school/jr. high means less than it does in high school :D

Encourage good grades, but don't push her too hard early-on for grades only. That's just asking for an early burnout --- not a good thing if she's expected to go onto college for 4-6 years (I'm including masters, not the inevitable major switch).

C&CDean
5/6/2009, 08:59 AM
As a formerly baaaaad student at her age, I would agree that it is better to take the knowledge before the GPA factors into things such as class status, OHLAP, and awards/schollys.

Seriously, my 7th grade report card is shamefully awful (did you know that D grades are still passing? heh heh...) Graduating third in my class five years later goes to show that GPA in middle school/jr. high means less than it does in high school :D

Encourage good grades, but don't push her too hard early-on for grades only. That's just asking for an early burnout --- not a good thing if she's expected to go onto college for 4-6 years (I'm including masters, not the inevitable major switch).

Graduating third in a class of 3 is nothing to be crowing about missy...

badger
5/6/2009, 09:10 AM
Graduating third in a class of 3 is nothing to be crowing about missy...

:D Come on now Dean. I'm pizzed about the Favre rumors too, but no reason to take it out on a fellow Packer fan.

BornandBred
5/6/2009, 09:12 AM
As a formerly baaaaad student at her age, I would agree that it is better to take the knowledge before the GPA factors into things such as class status, OHLAP, and awards/schollys.

Seriously, my 7th grade report card is shamefully awful (did you know that D grades are still passing? heh heh...) Graduating third in my class five years later goes to show that GPA in middle school/jr. high means less than it does in high school :D

Encourage good grades, but don't push her too hard early-on for grades only. That's just asking for an early burnout --- not a good thing if she's expected to go onto college for 4-6 years (I'm including masters, not the inevitable major switch).

I tend to disagree with this. The 7th-9th grades is where I developed most of my interest in math and science through advanced courses. The standard courses that tend to come with teachers that don't really expect much of the students doesn't really do anything to encourage 'out of the box' thinking. To this day, my favorite class I ever had was discovery science in the 7th grade. We did egg drops, solved riddles, made rube-goldberg machines, etc. It was awesome. I would never have gotten that in some lame course with 80 kids.

Jello Biafra
5/6/2009, 09:19 AM
:D Come on now Dean. I'm pizzed about the Favre rumors too, but no reason to take it out on a fellow Packer fan.

pffft you guys are pizzed....im scared.

badger
5/6/2009, 09:20 AM
The question I was answering was concerning GPA, not which classes to take. By all means, encourage her to take classes that interest her at this early level, but the emphasis should be on learning now, while grade emphasis can come later as she finds which areas of study are her stronger subjects... like B&B's math and science advanced courses :)

BornandBred
5/6/2009, 10:19 AM
When I was in high school I took some AP courses and made B's. There were people that played the games better, took easier courses with easier teachers and made all A's. When college came I was lucky enough to get scholly's based on test scores, not GPA, they got theirs on GPA. I did better in college because I had difficult courses in my past and had a very strong idea of what I was truly interested in. So, here's the answer:

Take the AP courses and make all A's.

badger
5/6/2009, 10:26 AM
Take the AP courses and make all A's.

Best of both worlds:D

soonermix
5/6/2009, 11:09 AM
thats true if it is a girl.. she could always go for her MRS degree

BornandBred
5/6/2009, 11:21 AM
thats true if it is a girl.. she could always go for her MRS degree

I had classes with girls openly getting the MRS degree. I was like, where do you want to work when you finish, "I want to be a Mommy!"...... WTF?? You could pick easier courses to take than engineering. "I want to marry an engineer."

But, I talk like I won't be glad to be a kept man. My wife is wrapping up her last semester in law school. When she gets a job I plan on playing golf a LOT. Double standards be damned.

StoopTroup
5/6/2009, 11:41 AM
No matter what she decides...I think having a mentor other than a parental figure is very important if she's going to find a way to be successful doing what she loves. Once she has that...she can try to find her own way.

I had a few mentors but ultimately ended up listing to my Father more. I love my Dad...but career advice wasn't his best attribute.

OhU1
5/6/2009, 11:56 AM
When college came I was lucky enough to get scholly's based on test scores, not GPA, they got theirs on GPA. I did better in college because I had difficult courses in my past

Same here. High grades in the lower levels can be obtained without substantive learning, understanding, or even with an average IQ. Ultimately you can't fool the SAT, ACT, LSAT or upper level course material.

In my opinion you owe it to yourself to make your time and financial investment count and actually become educated - not just earn an impressive looking "certificate of completion" (a degree).

Jello Biafra
5/6/2009, 01:36 PM
pffft you guys are pizzed....im scared.

serious like are you two NOT scared?


i mean, with favre back there and the potential this offense currently has in place, we may be in for a long season. if he comes in there, i seriously see a sweep of all of the nfc north.


meh, i guess thats why they play the games.

LilSooner
5/6/2009, 02:51 PM
Pig :P


I am going to totally ignore the fact that I'm a chick and agree with you. Women get paid less for doing the same job for a reason - men are usually the breadwinners of the household, while a woman's income is just extra gravy. Some could cry "unfair!" at this, but being paid more for the same job means less job security when boss is trying to decide whether the same worker doing the same job making $10,000 more is really worth it... and usually not, especially in a recession.

If a dude's goal is to eventually get married, have a family and provide for other dependents, then definitely force the idea on him what paying back loans are like, whether they be mortgages, student loans or car payments.

:D NP and I finally paid off the car he got a few years ago. We are probably never going to get a new car again after those [email protected] payments.

Whoa! Have I been transported back to the 50's? There is so much wrong with this post I don't know where to begin. I'm a chick and make more than my male counter parts, why you may ask? It's because I'm damn good at my job. I'm proud of the fact that I am under thirty and make 6 figures, and in a territory that my VP's call a crap territory. I work my *** off to be a good employee and to be an asset to my customers. So sorry I don't buy this because I'm a woman I'm going to have to accept making less than a man bull**** you tout because it's simply not true unless you ALLOW it to be true. Seriously that whole mentality pisses me off.

Jello Biafra
5/6/2009, 03:07 PM
Whoa! Have I been transported back to the 50's? There is so much wrong with this post I don't know where to begin. I'm a chick and make more than my male counter parts, why you may ask? It's because I'm damn good at my job. I'm proud of the fact that I am under thirty and make 6 figures, and in a territory that my VP's call a crap territory. I work my *** off to be a good employee and to be an asset to my customers. So sorry I don't buy this because I'm a woman I'm going to have to accept making less than a man bull**** you tout because it's simply not true unless you ALLOW it to be true. Seriously that whole mentality pisses me off.



:pop: :bsmf:

LilSooner
5/6/2009, 03:15 PM
What it's the truth :) I hate when I hear other women talk like this it's ridiculous.

JohnnyMack
5/6/2009, 03:18 PM
Whoa! Have I been transported back to the 50's? There is so much wrong with this post I don't know where to begin. I'm a chick and make more than my male counter parts, why you may ask? It's because I'm damn good at my job. I'm proud of the fact that I am under thirty and make 6 figures, and in a territory that my VP's call a crap territory. I work my *** off to be a good employee and to be an asset to my customers. So sorry I don't buy this because I'm a woman I'm going to have to accept making less than a man bull**** you tout because it's simply not true unless you ALLOW it to be true. Seriously that whole mentality pisses me off.

Get back in the kitchen and finish those brownies.

LilSooner
5/6/2009, 03:24 PM
Get back in the kitchen and finish those brownies.


You shut your mouth or I will "sweep the leg". And besides today isn't brownie day, today I am making homemade pretzel bread for our steak sammiches we are having tonight. Which is my knock off version of the one we had at Harry Caray's in Chicago.

stoops the eternal pimp
5/6/2009, 03:37 PM
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/31/51999805_b811fe653d.jpg

Steak sandwiches should be our currency! Each sandwich would be work a nickel depending upon the strength of the yen...

LilSooner
5/6/2009, 03:47 PM
Especially the ones from Harry Caray's.

TUSooner
5/6/2009, 03:56 PM
My daughter just told me she was so inspired by this thread that she has now decided to be either a baseball play-by-play announcer or a fry-cook.
Thank you one and all . . . . :mad:

:)

soonermix
5/6/2009, 04:32 PM
the good news is that as a fry-cook she can totally skip college and start her promising, exciting and wonderful career right away !!!

badger
5/6/2009, 04:47 PM
Whoa! Have I been transported back to the 50's? There is so much wrong with this post I don't know where to begin. I'm a chick and make more than my male counter parts, why you may ask? It's because I'm damn good at my job. I'm proud of the fact that I am under thirty and make 6 figures, and in a territory that my VP's call a crap territory. I work my *** off to be a good employee and to be an asset to my customers. So sorry I don't buy this because I'm a woman I'm going to have to accept making less than a man bull**** you tout because it's simply not true unless you ALLOW it to be true. Seriously that whole mentality pisses me off.

I like your spirit :D

I'm not saying I endorse the fact that women make less, I'm saying that is the way things are according to salary stats nationwide across the board and why I think things are that way. Of course I do not like it nor do I accept it and if I thought that, I, personally, was making less than my male counterparts for doing the same job, I would probably be seeking a different job. However, there are several women bosses who supervise me (who have advanced in the company through hard work, but of course!) and I think I make the same as my male co-workers doing the same work.

So anyway, to clarify - i do NOT accept that women make less for doing similar jobs, but rather, realize that is the way things are currently.

It's spirited and hard working women that are the biggest reasons why this is not always the case... such as in your case :)

LilSooner
5/6/2009, 06:07 PM
There that is much better than the crap you first posted. I can accept that. :)

badger
5/6/2009, 06:14 PM
There that is much better than the crap you first posted. I can accept that. :)

:D

Okla-homey
5/6/2009, 06:56 PM
This ought to be a poll, I guess, but I never figured out how to set one up. But I digress. Here's the situation: You have a child who is about a year from college, and who is pretty smart in many areas of knowledge but inclined toward, say, art or music or theater or writing or "that sort of thing." Do you say:

1. Go with what you love. If you love it enough to devote yourself to it, you'll succeed, and besides, if "working" at the thing you love doesn't seem like work, it's like never having to work and you're better off than most people anyway.

2. Go for the money (accounting, finance, law, whatever) even if you don't really like it. Money brings security, and if you make enough, you'll probably be able to create enough time to do the things you love "on the side."

Of course, if you love being an accountant or an engineer, no problem!

Let the shenanigans ensue.

I'd say let them go where their heart leads. When my Blonde Daughter (an artsy chick) announced she was majoring in Interior Design, my first thought was, "WTF do you need a bachelors degree to pick out wallpaper?"

After she explained its much more than that, and that in involves lighting, window placement, fixtures, furniture, traffic patterns...essentially everything short of moving load bearing walls, with the goal of making the available space ideally suited to its purpose, I felt a little better about it.

Anyhoo, she's done now, and has a job waiting for her with an architectural firm here in Tulsa, so, WTF did I know?

In the end, she's happy and she's going to be able to support herself, and that's really all we can hope for our children isn't it?

As for me, all I ever wanted to do was fly jets and the path of least resistance to that goal was a history degree -- because you have to be a college graduate to do so. It was a twofer for me because I dig history. Now, I've gotten a couple more marketable degrees since then, but again, I've gone with stuff I dug, not stuff I felt would be the pathway to stacks of cash.

The funny thing is though, as others have posted, if you love what you do, and you are willing to work hard, you can very often do what you dig and still be quite comfy, financially speaking.

Methinks the key is being mature enough to avoid the siren call of instant gratification via abundant and readily available consumer credit. Kids absolutely MUST forego stuff they really can't afford until they can afford it or their likely to dig a hole for themselves from which only a bankruptcy court can kinda dig them out.

You asked. That's my take on it. Let her run. There are few fates worse than being "trapped" doing something you loathe because someone else thought that's what they needed to be doing when its was time to pick what they wanted to be when they grew up. I know. I practice with a few folks in that category.

and none of it gonna matter much anyway when the tallybanners start popping those paki nukes they're about to acquire because what's left of the world economy will implode as a result and it'll be Thunderdome City. When that happens, all that will matter is how good looking a gal is and whether or not she can attract a big strong feller who can fight off bandits . :D

TUSooner
5/7/2009, 07:36 AM
The funny thing is though, as others have posted, if you love what you do, and you are willing to work hard, you can very often do what you dig and still be quite comfy, financially speaking.


Bingo- There's the bottom line. "Naught without labor"; but "labor" is a whole 'nother thing if it's a labor of love.

47straight
5/7/2009, 11:28 AM
Bingo- There's the bottom line. "Naught without labor"; but "labor" is a whole 'nother thing if it's a labor of love.

calepa ta kala?

TUSooner
5/7/2009, 01:33 PM
calepa ta kala?

:)

Okla-homey
5/7/2009, 03:14 PM
Labor Omnia Vincit

Scott D
5/7/2009, 04:01 PM
But hey, you do get to pick how you spend the money you personally earned, so if you disapprove of who they marry, then you don't have to contribute anything to the wedding (including your attendance). If your kid wants to live at home and not follow your rules, you can kick them out after they turn 18... and as far as what they do for a living, perhaps you can really test them on it, if you feel strongly enough on the issue.

If you are of the opinion that college should only be a means to a high paying, lucrative career, only offer to contribute to college funds if they choose certain degrees. If they insist on following their own ideas for their education without regard for your input, don't contribute your own money to the education efforts.

I'm not saying I agree with any of the above sentiments - I don't think I could ever kick a family member out of a house in a time of need, or not show up to their wedding, or not contribute to education if I could afford it - but those are definitely options for parents.

it's the estrogen ;)