SEC< or at best = BIG 12

[SoonersBIG7]

I am so tired of hearing how good the SEC is.
Up until this year Big 12 had the most national championships
Now we are tied at 16...
(of which OU owns 7 :D)

[SoonersBIG7]

So please do explain how they are so much better?

[JLEW1818]

a lot of people get distracted with "recent success"

[Fraggle145]

welcome to the club.

[SoonersBIG7]

Heisman Trophies go 13 to Big 12, 8 to SEC...
Everything makes sense now...SEC is the best...:rolleyes:

[CrimsonJim]

....cause ESPiN sez so!

[sooner94]

Hard to argue with 3 of last 4 national titles in the conference. However, it does seem that there are more weak teams in the SEC now than there were 5or so years ago.

But remember, if the 1972 Dolphins played in the SEC, they would have lost 4 games. (damn I love that line)

[OUTrumpet]

Surely that 16 SEC championships don't include Alabama.

If you included Alabama the SEC would have something like 382 MNC.

[AlbqSooner]

Sheeesh! You guys aparently don't understand the speed in the SEC.

[OU-HSV]

I am tired of it too...and I've argued for OUr Big 12 before.
However, I thought this past season would be the year that the Big 12 makes a nice statement considering how successful the Big 12 was all year long. And it was set up perfect with some bowl matchups. That is, until Texas Tech forgot how to play football vs. Ole Miss and when we folded vs. florida. I do agree with sooner94 that it seems the SEC has had a recent dropoff as a conference (as a whole). Mostly this past season, compared to their normal.

But overall, I guess it just depends on what angle you want to argue with SEC fans about.

Unfortunately, if you try arguing what I consider recent history...since the BCS has been in place (since 1998)...you wouldn't have much of an argument.

-Overall in the BCS, the SEC has an 11-4 record, while the Big 12 has a 6-8 record.

-The SEC has a 4-0 record in the BCS Champ Game, while the Big 12 has a 2-3 record.

Basically any way you look at the "modern BCS history" (since 1998). Overall us good guys in the Big 12 still can't build an argument.
But it sure would be nice to be able to have an argument, especially considering how the media (mostly ESPN/ABC) seems to be giving major kiss *** props to the SEC.
Here's where I was compiling the records from:
http://www.bcsfootball.org/bcsfb/alltime

Oh and I meant to add another part of what SEC fans can argue toward us. Don't know exactly where to dig it all up, but I'm almost certain the SEC has a better overall bowl game record than OUr Big 12 since 1998 as well. A fellow OU fan buddy of mine and I looked into it once when we had an argument going w/some SEC fans.

[jumperstop]

Not much to argue with their current bcs success. But still, the SEC and their ESPN texas lovin, butt budy can suck it.

[Salt City Sooner]

-The SEC has a 4-0 record in the BCS Champ Game, while the Big 12 has a 2-3 record.
2003- LSU beat OU in New Orleans
2006- UF beat tOSU in Glendale
2007- LSU beat tOSU in New Orleans
2008- UF beat OU in Miami

You're gonna have to forgive me, but I'd give body parts to have 3 of 4 shots at the NC in what basically amounts to my own backyard, say, at Jerryworld, for example. I'm betting OU's record wouldn't be what it currently is in that scenario. I've heard the "LSU is 4-0 in BCS bowls" stat about a gazillion times, but every time I hear it, they conviently skip over the fact that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM was played in New Orleans.

[JLEW1818]

2003- LSU beat OU in New Orleans
2006- UF beat tOSU in Glendale
2007- LSU beat tOSU in New Orleans
2008- UF beat OU in Miami

You're gonna have to forgive me, but I'd give body parts to have 3 of 4 shots at the NC in what basically amounts to my own backyard, say, at Jerryworld, for example. I'm betting OU's record wouldn't be what it currently is in that scenario. I've heard the "LSU is 4-0 in BCS bowls" stat about a gazillion times, but every time I hear it, they conviently skip over the fact that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM was played in New Orleans.

agree

[NormanPride]

In close games like 2004 and 2008, home field advantage does make a huge difference. But would the pundits not say the SEC was the best if we won both those games? I think they would still be telling us all how superior the competition is in that conference.

[badger]

I would have to say that OU fans are not the only ones rebelling against the "common knowledge" that SEC is the greatest in the world at a sport only played excessively in the U.S. :D

The Heisman vote was a clear example. Tim Tivo was supposed to be the second-ever (doesn't have a good ring to it, does it?) two-time Heisman winner, only to get Sam Bradforded in New York. This was voters in all the other regions giving a big "Eff you!" to ESPN and other SEC Hoar mongettes.

I think that there is no question that the SEC has been a strong conference... recently. They have their off-years like every other conference. With all of their coaching changes and fan pressure combined with SEC traditions from player arrests to player compensation, look for more Fulmer Cup awards and players jumping to the draft as quickly as possible... it's tradition, after all :D

[The_Red_Patriot]

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/6769/bunnypancakecl1.jpg

Uh.....the SEC is better than the Big 12..

I wish the Big 12 was better but come on...If you really think the SEC isn't the best conference in the country your a freaking moron.

[BornandBred]

If you really think the SEC isn't the best conference in the country your a freaking moron.

I think the big debate is historically vs currently. Currently, SEC has a very strong case, historically I think their case is a bit weaker.

[badger]

I think the big debate is historically vs currently. Currently, SEC has a very strong case, historically I think their case is a bit weaker.

Should also note that this is fairly recent history we are referring to also, within many people's lifetimes, not a century ago when Harvard and Yale was the biggest rivalry.

The Big 12, formerly the Big 8, formerly the Big 6, has two teams that have been consistently dominant in recent history with few off-periods. The SEC has one... which has had a very, very lengthy off-period recently... and that team also happens to inflate their historic records to include a few extra championships :D

[G8trGr8t]

I am tired of it too...and I've argued for OUr Big 12 before.
However, I thought this past season would be the year that the Big 12 makes a nice statement considering how successful the Big 12 was all year long. And it was set up perfect with some bowl matchups. That is, until *Texas* Tech forgot how to play football vs. Ole Miss and when we folded vs. florida. I do agree with sooner94 that it seems the SEC has had a recent dropoff as a conference (as a whole). Mostly this past season, compared to their normal.

But overall, I guess it just depends on what angle you want to argue with SEC fans about.

Unfortunately, if you try arguing what I consider recent history...since the BCS has been in place (since 1998)...you wouldn't have much of an argument.

-Overall in the BCS, the SEC has an 11-4 record, while the Big 12 has a 6-8 record.

-The SEC has a 4-0 record in the BCS Champ Game, while the Big 12 has a 2-3 record.

Basically any way you look at the "modern BCS history" (since 1998). Overall us good guys in the Big 12 still can't build an argument.
But it sure would be nice to be able to have an argument, especially considering how the media (mostly ESPN/ABC) seems to be giving major kiss *** props to the SEC.
Here's where I was compiling the records from:
http://www.bcsfootball.org/bcsfb/alltime

Oh and I meant to add another part of what SEC fans can argue toward us. Don't know exactly where to dig it all up, but I'm almost certain the SEC has a better overall bowl game record than OUr Big 12 since 1998 as well. A fellow OU fan buddy of mine and I looked into it once when we had an argument going w/some SEC fans.

Good post. Sure you will take some grief for it here but the numbers cannot be argued.

SEC has done very well in recruiting rankings over the years and have several high quality coaches. The strength of the conference hurts the SEC when they beat up each other but usually helps when it comes to bowl games. If OSU, Kansas, TT, can ever get to a point to be a serious threat to OU and Saxet, the Big 12 will get there.

Pete Dye used to tell me that people pay good money to play bad golf because the tougher their home course was, the easier it was to play on the road. Football isn't that different.

If the NFL draft says anything about the talent level in a particular league, the SEC had the most players drafted this year FWIW. Amazing thing is that South Carolina led the SEC in number of players drafted. There were a lot of young teams in the SEC last year so expect the caliber of play to go up a little this year.

[JLEW1818]

So are you saying that kids in Florida, Alabama, miss, Georgia, Tenn, Kentucky, Louisianian are just better athletes than kids in Oklahoma, Texas Cali, Ariz?

[Statalyzer]

That is, until *Texas* Tech forgot how to play football vs. Ole Miss and when we folded vs. florida.

You didn't exactly fold. Florida was a very good team that played a very good game. And Texas Tech was essentially playing without Crabtree. The Crabtree that played against Ole Miss looked like about 60% of the Crabtree that played the other 11.5 games.

[JLEW1818]

I think its because taco tech is garbage and will always be garbage!!

[nytehorn]

Well, we will even it out this year. It took Texas to go and knock off "The Best Team In History", after they beat OU the previous year. We will do it again this year against Florida. LOL ESPN will be talking "Dynasty" again with Florida. You know they WILL promote Florida as the "Best Ever" with Tebow. IMHO, there are only 4 teams that has a chance against them. USC,Texas, OU, and LSU...in that order. Florida's defense did what I thought would be impossible; hold OU under 28 points...and they are ALL back!!

[soonerfan28]

I have nothing intelligent to say so I'll just say F*CK THE SEC!

[OU-HSV]

You didn't exactly fold. Florida was a very good team that played a very good game. And *Texas* Tech was essentially playing without Crabtree. The Crabtree that played against Ole Miss looked like about 60% of the Crabtree that played the other 11.5 games.

Maybe I should've phrased it as..."mostly the offensive playcalling folded at awfully critical moments of the game". I didn't mean it as an absolute team foldage (yeah I just made that word up) :D ...and I wasn't saying it to act like Florida wasn't a good team. But anyways, that's not the main point of my initial post, and that stuff has been covered in all the millions of threads we had after the loss.

[OU-HSV]

Good post. Sure you will take some grief for it here but the numbers cannot be argued.

SEC has done very well in recruiting rankings over the years and have several high quality coaches. The strength of the conference hurts the SEC when they beat up each other but usually helps when it comes to bowl games. If OSU, Kansas, TT, can ever get to a point to be a serious threat to OU and Saxet, the Big 12 will get there.

Pete Dye used to tell me that people pay good money to play bad golf because the tougher their home course was, the easier it was to play on the road. Football isn't that different.

If the NFL draft says anything about the talent level in a particular league, the SEC had the most players drafted this year FWIW. Amazing thing is that South Carolina led the SEC in number of players drafted. There were a lot of young teams in the SEC last year so expect the caliber of play to go up a little this year.

I appreciate the kind words, as I'm sure some OU fans didn't like what I had to say. But all I was doing with that post is being honest and showing some facts. Instead of just saying the SEC sucks and all that. But I want to get something straight...I'm still just as sick of hearing about the SEC as the next guy around here is. But that's not going to change unless the Big 12 starts being more consistently dominant. If that doesn't happen, then we'll be hearing about the SEC for a long time coming. So we have to get used to it, which makes me want to throw up. :eek:

I do want to cover something you mentioned though. I must say part of what makes all of us OU fans and Big 12 fans sick to our stomachs is having to hear how the SEC "beats up on eachother" week in and week out. To me that's just an ongoing excuse for any disappointing losses that may happen in a season. And if we would all really think about it, every conference on the face of the planet could say they beat up on eachother every week. Hell that's what makes for rivalries, and all that stuff.
So I guess we all ought to be able to agree that the Big 12 and the SEC's top teams are capable of beating eachother on any given Saturday. Maybe that makes more sense instead of trying to act like a conference as a whole beats up on eachother. I mean it's not like you have Vandy or Kentucky running around whipping the top SEC teams consistently...and it's not like we've got Baylor or Iowa State doing that in the Big 12 either.
Anyways, I hope that made sense, I'm tired and just kinda threw that together:D

[goingoneight]

Turnovers killed us against Florida.

1. Chris Brown stopped on 4th and goal, should have been 7, but congrats to UF (Murray would have kicked that 4th down outside or dove over IMO :().

2. Manny Johnson has a perfect pass hit him right on the number 1 and he pops it up for UF grabs... should have been 7 because the pass was in the endzone, but hey... drops happen, usually at the worst times.

3. Jimmy Stevens wasn't horrible in 2008, but nothing that I saw made me believe he could make a 50-yarder against a team known for blocking low, long FG attempts. There's 17 points left off the board so far.

4. Why did we throw a deep post to Iglesias? I love JI to death, but he dropped literally EVERY deep post pass last year. It was one thing he just couln't do, at least not in a game he couldn't. Shocking I'm saying this because I never thought I would two years ago, but that SHOULD have been Chaney out-wide on that play. Still, it was blanket coverage and you know you're gambling anytime you call a deep post, especially to one who's been inconsistent out wide.

5. Still, a chance to make something happen... if we were the "greatest offense in college football history," we wouldn't have been stuck with 4th and long... incomplete, Bradford to Iglesias.

That's 17 points + another oppurtunity to make something happen and we couldnt do it. Being without Murray killed us. Brown was consistent, but he wasn't a guy that brings extra attention up front. He had two good, long runs that Murray would have made probably one quick cut and taken it the distance. Personnel is everything sometimes. Brown would have still been VERY important to success even with Murray, but he just didn't bring that "homerun" presence or capability IMO.

I think what happened is we just lined up deep in the heart of Gator territory and played a very good game, but just didn't have that little something extra and we ended up forfeiting too many oppurtunities. The game is about taking what your opposition gives you, and UF did that very well. I'm sickened about as badly for the team as I was in 2003 against LSU. Heart-wrenching loss.

In giving UF the ball five times, and all they had to show for it was 24 points... I'm sold that the D did a great job until the team was just done for late in the 4th. You usually can't hold on forever if you keep giving a great offense the ball.

To suggest that we'd lose to Auburn, LSU, Arkansas or any of the other SEC teams just because we're "BIG 12" is ridiculous and that stupid theory should be left to anyone who's dumb enough to be brainwashed by ESPN. Stoops is 3-2 versus the SEC and his coaching was once DOMINANT in the SEC, so don't listen to the tards who say we'd be a 3-loss team in the SEC or that our program is less than what is was based on their conference. It's not our fault Texaz Tech NEVER has a defense and had two guys hurt, just like it's not our fault Texaz keeps drawing creampuffs in bowl games (Iowa, Arizona State and Ohio State were not of the level OU's BCS bowl opponents have been). The only things that are OU's fault are when they show up for the party, but not for the game (USC 2004/5).

[mOUse]

Only 4 BIG12 teams have winning records vs SEC: UT, Neb, Mizzou have done very well and OU has done OK. But there is a great chasm between these 4 and the rest of the league. It is the simple fact that TOP to Bottom SEC is without a doubt a better conference generally. They have a greater number of players to pull from and a reputation and history that draws players. Having said that, I DO feel the BIG 12 was equal last year and will be just as good this year. However, the bowl records vs SEC teams is abysmal! That says a lot to bookies and football fans! Until that trend reverses, it is hard to argue!
OU is 1 and 3 vs SEC in last 10 yrs and 2-4 over the last 25 yrs.
UT is 1 -1 in last 10 years and 2-3 in the last 25 years.
Mizzou is 1-1 in last 10 years and 4-1 respectively in last 25 years
Nebby is 1-2 in last 10 years and and 7-2 in 25 years. Very cool!

I don't even want to check the other schools. Geez!
So, if the big 12 has a good year in bowl games vs the SEC and not to mention Pac 10, that coupled with 4 outstanding QB's will BEGIN to change peoples perspective about the BIG 12, although, they already began the accolades last year...but it is how we finish that people remember! Just look at how one game vs FSU nearly 10 years ago changed EVERYTHING for sooner football and fandom!

That change in perspective will slowly influence the remaining teams and affect thier results vs the SEC as well. But, take Big12 top 4 teams and SEC top teams out of the equasion, that leaves:
Big 12:
#5 OSU vs SEC #5 Vandy - I think OSU wins that more than %60 of the time
#6 Neb vs SEC #6 South Car - probably %70 NU
#7 Kansas vs #7 LSU - %70 LSU
#8 KSU vs #8 Tenn - %70 Tenn
#9 Col vs #9 Aub - 50-50 I would say
#10/11 TA&M or Baylor vs Kentucky or Arkansas - I would say probably 60-40 SEC
#12 ISU vs MSU - probably 60-40 again.

Overall right now I would say the SEC has a slight edge, but far less of an edge than they did just 5 years ago.

[The Remnant]

mOUse, you stated that OU is 1 and 3 versus the SEC over the last 10 years. Didn't Stoops beat Alabama twice? I thought that they took both games of a home and home series.

[The Remnant]

1970 OU ties Alabama in bowl game
1971 OU beats Auburn in bowl game
1980 OU beats Kentucky
1982 OU beats Kentucky
1999 OU loses to Mississippi in bowl game
2002 OU beats Alabama
2003 OU beats Alabama
2005 OU loses to LSU in bowl game
2009 OU loses to Florida in bowl game

[The Remnant]

The SEC should consider themselves lucky that they didn't have to face the Barry Switzer juggernaut very often.

[allenrayx]

personally i could care less about the conferences......i just want a winning OU season............that includes the bowl game

[A-M]

personally i could care less about the conferences......i just want a winning OU season............that includes the bowl game

This sounds good to me!

[The Remnant]

If you don't care for this thread then next time take your mouse and click a different one. The title SEC< or at best = Big 12 should have given you a clue.

[A-M]

If you don't care for this thread then next time take your mouse and click a different one. The title SEC< or at best = Big 12 should have given you a clue.

Did you even bother to read what we siad? If you would take the time to read what we said, you would see that we said that we did not care about the conferences being better then the other, not that we didn't care about the thread.

[SoonerShay]

1970 OU ties Alabama in bowl game
1971 OU beats Auburn in bowl game
1980 OU beats Kentucky
1982 OU beats Kentucky
1999 OU loses to Mississippi in bowl game
2002 OU beats Alabama
2003 OU beats Alabama
2005 OU loses to LSU in bowl game
2009 OU loses to Florida in bowl game


We also smacked Ar-kansas around in the cotton bowl in 2001. So that 1-3 record is kind of weird.

[The Remnant]

Thanks SoonerShay. I forgot about that one. I am conditioned to associating the Hogs with the old SWC.

[The Remnant]

A-M.The topic implies a comparison of the two conferences. Since that was being discussed, I gave statistics comparing the SEC and the Big 12. We all agree about the bowl games. Boomer Sooner.

[SoonersBIG7]

Well its already been proven that OU is the best college FB program in the modern era... So I was just trying to help out our conference that takes a poudning from us every season :)

[SteelClip49]

OU 7 - NU 5 - TX 4 - A&M 1 - CU 1 (18)

UA 7 - LSU 3 - UF 3 - TENN 2 - UGA 1 - AUB 1 (17)

Since the AP began, the XII has 1 more title than the SEC and while 5 of the XII NC's came from former SWC teams, they all tie in together as a whole with the Big 8. Historically, perhaps the SEC has more tradition because Bammer and the Wallace Wade days as well as Tennessee and Neyland.

Right now, SEC > XII but overall, I would say the Big XII and SEC are equal.

[mOUse]

mOUse, you stated that OU is 1 and 3 versus the SEC over the last 10 years. Didn't Stoops beat Alabama twice? I thought that they took both games of a home and home series.


However, the bowl records vs SEC teams is abysmal! That says a lot to bookies and football fans! Until that trend reverses, it is hard to argue!
OU is 1 and 3 vs SEC in last 10 yrs and 2-4 over the last 25 yrs.
UT is 1 -1 in last 10 years and 2-3 in the last 25 years.
Mizzou is 1-1 in last 10 years and 4-1 respectively in last 25 years
Nebby is 1-2 in last 10 years and and 7-2 in 25 years. Very cool!
Sorry, I should have been more clear, but toward the latter half of my meaningless drivel, i mentioned how the Big 12's BOWL RECORD vs the SEC was lacking. So the records posted after that were the teams bowl records, but now ya got me questionin'!:confused:

[mOUse]

OK! I've done my research and it doesn't get any better with regard to bowls! But OU DOES do well overall vs SEC. But just to reitterate, I'm thinking its how the BIG12 FINISHES that turns many off of the conference. Not withstanding, I DO feel that the BIG12 will do better in Bowl games this year, especially vs. the SEC.

My problem is I love stats, but getting accurate stats can be tricky sometimes.

here ya go. OU vs SEC (OVERALL RECORD- 10-6-2, BOWLS 4-6-1) back to 1933.

2009/01/08 Oklahoma 14 - Florida 24 L BCS Championship 2004/01/04 Oklahoma 14 - LSU 21 L Sugar Bowl
2003/09/06 Oklahoma 20 - Alabama 13 W
2002/09/07 Oklahoma 37 - Alabama 27 W
2002/01/01 Oklahoma 10 - Arkansas 3 W Cotton Bowl
1999/12/31 Oklahoma 25 - Mississippi 27 L Independence Bowl
1982/09/18 Oklahoma 29 - Kentucky 8 W
1980/09/13 Oklahoma 29 - Kentucky 7 W
1977/09/10 Oklahoma 25 - Vanderbilt 23 W
1976/09/11 Oklahoma 24 - Vanderbilt 3 W
1972/01/01 Oklahoma 40 - Auburn 22 W Sugar Bowl
1970/12/31 Oklahoma 24 - Alabama 24 T Astro-Bluebonnet Bowl
1968/01/01 Oklahoma 26 - Tennessee 24 W Orange Bowl
1963/01/01 Oklahoma 0 - Alabama 17 L Orange Bowl
1951/01/01 Oklahoma 7 - Kentucky 13 L Sugar Bowl
1950/01/02 Oklahoma 35 - LSU 0 W Sugar Bowl
1939/01/02 Oklahoma 0 - Tennessee 17 L Orange Bowl
1933/09/30 Oklahoma 0 - Vanderbilt 0 T
;)

[Eielson]

Not really related to the conversation, but what is it with the SEC and unpopular coaches?

I've never had a problem with Urban Meyer, and I think he's a great coach, but it seems like he is developing a large group of haters.

Saban likes to compare losing games to 9-11, and seems to become more unpopular everytime he opens his mouth. I respect him too for the coaching jobs he's done...winning himself a national championship along with one for Les.

Les Miles...haha.

I'm not sure what the deal is with Mark Richt, but I have heard some people express dislike for him. I'm not sure if this is because of the Florida game celebration or what. I don't personally have an opinion either way.

We're not finished, though! Lane Kiffen is off to a great start in fitting in with the rest of the SEC.

[goingoneight]

The coaches hate eachother because of competition on the field and recruiting trail. They get flat-out dirty going after the top prospects in the southeast. Remember how pissed off Lester was playing thrid fiddle in Oklahoma behind OU football and :eddie:? Imagine how much he hates recruiting and playing against guys like Saban, Meyer, Richt and Petrino.

[G8trGr8t]

Speaking of coaches,

Looking at the entire college football landscape, which conference do you think has the best coaches?

SEC has Meyer, Saban, Richt, Petrino, Miles, & Spurrier that are all proven winners with four of those guys having national championship rings. Add in Houston Nutt and until recently, Pat Dye and there is a lot of talent at the table.

Are there any other conferences that go six deep with that level of talent in the coaching ranks?

[SoonerInFortSmith]

Originally posted by G8trGr8t

Add in Houston Nutt...
Are you serious?!
Up until now you were making decent sense, but Houston Nutt? Come on! He singlehandedly ruined the Arkansas program. He ran off the 3 or 4 of the top high school recruits in America (QB Mustain and Wr Williams the most noteable). I saw Matt Jones play in high school, and with proper college coaching he should have been an NFL QB. But Nutt just told him to run instead of developing his footwork or finding him a serviceable receiver target. He may have turned OleMiss around this year, but face it, they basically only had up to go.
Don't bring that weak sauce!

[footballfanatic]

Turnovers killed us against Florida.

1. Chris Brown stopped on 4th and goal, should have been 7, but congrats to UF (Murray would have kicked that 4th down outside or dove over IMO :().

2. Manny Johnson has a perfect pass hit him right on the number 1 and he pops it up for UF grabs... should have been 7 because the pass was in the endzone, but hey... drops happen, usually at the worst times.

3. Jimmy Stevens wasn't horrible in 2008, but nothing that I saw made me believe he could make a 50-yarder against a team known for blocking low, long FG attempts. There's 17 points left off the board so far.

4. Why did we throw a deep post to Iglesias? I love JI to death, but he dropped literally EVERY deep post pass last year. It was one thing he just couln't do, at least not in a game he couldn't. Shocking I'm saying this because I never thought I would two years ago, but that SHOULD have been Chaney out-wide on that play. Still, it was blanket coverage and you know you're gambling anytime you call a deep post, especially to one who's been inconsistent out wide.

5. Still, a chance to make something happen... if we were the "greatest offense in college football history," we wouldn't have been stuck with 4th and long... incomplete, Bradford to Iglesias.

That's 17 points + another oppurtunity to make something happen and we couldnt do it. Being without Murray killed us. Brown was consistent, but he wasn't a guy that brings extra attention up front. He had two good, long runs that Murray would have made probably one quick cut and taken it the distance. Personnel is everything sometimes. Brown would have still been VERY important to success even with Murray, but he just didn't bring that "homerun" presence or capability IMO.

I think what happened is we just lined up deep in the heart of Gator territory and played a very good game, but just didn't have that little something extra and we ended up forfeiting too many oppurtunities. The game is about taking what your opposition gives you, and UF did that very well. I'm sickened about as badly for the team as I was in 2003 against LSU. Heart-wrenching loss.

In giving UF the ball five times, and all they had to show for it was 24 points... I'm sold that the D did a great job until the team was just done for late in the 4th. You usually can't hold on forever if you keep giving a great offense the ball.

To suggest that we'd lose to Auburn, LSU, Arkansas or any of the other SEC teams just because we're "BIG 12" is ridiculous and that stupid theory should be left to anyone who's dumb enough to be brainwashed by ESPN. Stoops is 3-2 versus the SEC and his coaching was once DOMINANT in the SEC, so don't listen to the tards who say we'd be a 3-loss team in the SEC or that our program is less than what is was based on their conference. It's not our fault Texaz Tech NEVER has a defense and had two guys hurt, just like it's not our fault Texaz keeps drawing creampuffs in bowl games (Iowa, Arizona State and Ohio State were not of the level OU's BCS bowl opponents have been). The only things that are OU's fault are when they show up for the party, but not for the game (USC 2004/5).

While I agree many points made here, I have to call you out for making up points for your team. Why people think that line of thinking has any argument is strange, to say the least. You didn't score those points, so quit trying to claim them. Ohio State fans suffer from this strange mental ailment--it seems to be affecting OU fans faster than swine flu.

[G8trGr8t]

Originally posted by G8trGr8t

Are you serious?!
Up until now you were making decent sense, but Houston Nutt? Come on! He singlehandedly ruined the Arkansas program. He ran off the 3 or 4 of the top high school recruits in America (QB Mustain and Wr Williams the most noteable). I saw Matt Jones play in high school, and with proper college coaching he should have been an NFL QB. But Nutt just told him to run instead of developing his footwork or finding him a serviceable receiver target. He may have turned OleMiss around this year, but face it, they basically only had up to go.
Don't bring that weak sauce!


Okay, I agree. Nutt may have been a one hit wonder and should not have been included in a list with accomplished coaches.

Are there any other conferences as deep with coaching talent? How much does that play into the strength of a conference?

[G8trGr8t]

nm - dreaded double post

[Curly Bill]

Seriously...why does anyone care what conference is best?

[Curly Bill]

...as if you can even quantify such a thing.

[Salt City Sooner]

Speaking of coaches,

Looking at the entire college football landscape, which conference do you think has the best coaches?

SEC has Meyer, Saban, Richt, Petrino, Miles, & Spurrier that are all proven winners with four of those guys having national championship rings. Add in Houston Nutt and until recently, Pat Dye and there is a lot of talent at the table.

Are there any other conferences that go six deep with that level of talent in the coaching ranks?
I'm a bit curious as to your definition of recently, considering the fact that the upcoming season will make Auburn 17 years removed from the Dye era.

[Eielson]

SEC has Meyer, Saban, Richt, Petrino, Miles, & Spurrier

That's your problem, not ours.

[Extra Point]

-Overall in the BCS, the SEC has an 11-4 record, while the Big 12 has a 6-8 record.

-The SEC has a 4-0 record in the BCS Champ Game, while the Big 12 has a 2-3 record.

Actually, the SEC is 13-4 in BCS games and 5-0 in BCS title games (you forgot Tennessee's 1998 season BCS title).

The overall BCS appearances/records look like this...

SEC: 17 appearances, 13-4 record (.765)
Pac10: 13 appearances, 9-4 record (.692)
Big East: 11 appearances, 6-5 record (.545)
B12: 16 appearances, 7-9 record (.438)
B10: 19 appearances, 8-11 record (.421)
ACC: 11 appearances, 2-9 record (.182)

Since the B12 history goes back to 1996 when the conference was formed and the thread topic is B12 vs. SEC...

* Since '96, the SEC has won 6 NC's and the B12 has won 3 NC's. If you go back to '92 (SEC expansion), the SEC has 7 NC's and the B12 has 5 NC's.

* Since '96, the SEC is 60-35 in bowl games and the B12 is 45-47.

* Since '96, the final AP poll included 65 SEC teams and 54 B12 teams. Both conferences have had 10 programs finish in the final AP poll at least once.

I'm not sure why some think the SEC has been "down" recently. In the last 3 seasons, the SEC won all 3 NC's and is 19-7 in bowl games. All 12 SEC schools have participated in at least one bowl game following the 2007 or 2008 seasons. The B12 is 12-11 the last 3 years in bowl games with 9 of the 12 programs making a bowl appearance following the last 2 seasons.

The SEC/B12 do have two common bowl tie-ins, but I think it's tough to measure the SEC vs. B12 in those matchups. The Cotton Bowl does not always match up comparable teams (e.g. B12 #2 vs. SEC #2). For example, the post-2007 CB matched up Mizzou (B12 #2) vs. Arkansas (SEC #7). I don't think #2 beating #7 tells us much about the overall conference strength. Then there is the Independence Bowl matchup pitting the SEC #8 vs. B12 #7 (or #9 vs. #8 if both conferences get 2 BCS bids). I wish the SEC and B12 had better bowl matchups.

FWIW, I think the SEC gets a lot of coverage, but the majority of it centers around The Right Reverend Tim T. Messiah and the Gators. Tim is a great player and person, but there are 11 other SEC schools who are also tired of hearing about him 24/7. I think if you talk to SEC fans, they will tell you the B12 QB's get a LOT of pub as well. I think the B12 and SEC will both get plenty of coverage between now and January.