Pontiac to join Oldsmobile

[Okla-homey]

on the automotive ash heap of history.

And GM will sell Hummer, Saab and Saturn in an effort to slim down and regain economic viability.

Leaving only Chevy, Buick, Cadillac and GMC trucks in the GM family. Heck, I'd jettison Buick and GMC trucks too, but that's just me.

[royalfan5]

Buick and GMC are the only two brands that make GM money. Buick in China, and GMC because there is virtually no overhead because they are rebadged Chevy's sold for a premium. And by sell SAAB, Saturn, and Hummer, they mean free to a good home. Nobody is going spend serious money on them. They might get something for Opel/Vauxhall, and maybe Holden. But nothing significant.

[badger]

The Pontiac Grand Am was the sporty car of choice for the spoiled kids back at my high school. It must have seemed like a crap car everywhere else in the world :D

[JohnnyMack]

Japs bomb Pearl Harbor!

[olevetonahill]

Japs bomb Pearl Harbor!

No **** ?

[JohnnyMack]

No **** ?

No ****.

[olevetonahill]

No ****.

Yer ****tin me !

[JohnnyMack]

Yer ****tin me !

I ain't.

[olevetonahill]

No **** ?

[crawfish]

It deserves to die. But I'm going to cry over pictures of my college Trans Am anyway. :(

[RUSH LIMBAUGH is my clone!]

The govt. is sending GM some more Bailout $Billions, even as we speak.

[StoopTroup]

Did Tiger buy Buick yet?

[Frozen Sooner]

Well, good thing we know that GM's problems definitely didn't stem from having too many nameplates and a terrible dealer network to service all of those nameplates.

[IronSooner]

Buick and GMC are the only two brands that make GM money. Buick in China, and GMC because there is virtually no overhead because they are rebadged Chevy's sold for a premium.

I still don't understand why GMC needs to exist. It's the same damn thing as a chevy. What's the reasoning behind making 2 or 3 brands that are identical except for badging? If you're gonna have four companies, damn, make them a least look different.

[royalfan5]

I still don't understand why GMC needs to exist. It's the same damn thing as a chevy. What's the reasoning behind making 2 or 3 brands that are identical except for badging? If you're gonna have four companies, damn, make them a least look different.

If it cost the same to make as a Chevy, and people are willing pay a higher price tag for it than a Chevy, it works out in your favor if you are GM. GMC is basically pure profit for GM because it creates higher revenues out of an existing product. If you drop GMC, your best case is that you sell the same amount of product for less money.

[Scott D]

If it cost the same to make as a Chevy, and people are willing pay a higher price tag for it than a Chevy, it works out in your favor if you are GM. GMC is basically pure profit for GM because it creates higher revenues out of an existing product. If you drop GMC, your best case is that you sell the same amount of product for less money.

The same thing could be said in regards to Mercury in reference to Ford.

[royalfan5]

The same thing could be said in regards to Mercury in reference to Ford.
Which is why it is still there for now. Plus, GMC and Mercury both provide volume for dealers that lack a mass market brand.

[mdklatt]

GMC because there is virtually no overhead because they are rebadged Chevy's sold for a premium

Really? I've driven a Yukon once, and a Suburban several times, and the Yukon seemed to be a downmarket POS compared to the Suburban. If GMC is the upscale brand, dear lord.

[VeeJay]

They have to keep Buick. Us aging baby boomers are going to need cars when we're in our 80's.

[Scott D]

They have to keep Buick. Us aging baby boomers are going to need cars when we're in our 80's.

Cadillac will be going still.

[Curly Bill]

They have to keep Buick. Us aging baby boomers are going to need cars when we're in our 80's.

No carp! and since only old-timers drive Buicks they could put about half an engine in them since they never drive'em faster than 45mph.

[GottaHavePride]

Really? I've driven a Yukon once, and a Suburban several times, and the Yukon seemed to be a downmarket POS compared to the Suburban. If GMC is the upscale brand, dear lord.

I think exactly the opposite. I only ever see GMC vehicles as fleet vehicles for large companies.

Sort of like (as far as I can tell) Mercury is like a mid-range between Ford and Lincoln. I mean, nobody buys a Crown Vic except for police departments. You'll see a decent number of Grand Marquis's on the streets, and if you want the nice version you get the Town Car.

[My Opinion Matters]

I'm still getting me one of these...

http://i44.tinypic.com/n33n88.jpg

[def_lazer_fc]

Cadillac will be going still.

but who, realistically, will be able to afford a cadillac these days ;)

[def_lazer_fc]

I'm still getting me one of these...

http://i44.tinypic.com/n33n88.jpg

i still hate that pontiac grill though. the honeycomb thing just isnt working with me

[def_lazer_fc]

id rather have a jetta

[Crucifax Autumn]

I'd rather have a 68 Camaro

[olevetonahill]

Well If we dreaming :rolleyes:
http://oldcarandtruckpictures.com/ChevyTri-Five/1957_Chevrolet_Bel_Air_Convertible_13.jpg

[OUAlumni1990]

I'd rather have a 68 Camaro

word!!

[OklahomaTuba]

Wow, cutting 21,000 jobs as well!

All that Billions of our tax money that TOTUS is throwing at them is working wonders I tell ya. Wonders.

[My Opinion Matters]

id rather have a jetta

A Jetta doesn't have 415 hp. ;)

[Sooner04]

They have to keep Buick. Us aging baby boomers are going to need cars when we're in our 80's.
If GM wanted to make a ton of money for Buick they need to bring back the Grand National.

[yermom]

one of the coolest GM cars

[SteelClip49]

I wonder what ESPN will do now for the Pontiac Game Changing Performance?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

If GM wanted to make a ton of money for Buick they need to bring back the Grand National.

word.

[Beef]

If GM wanted to make a ton of money for Buick they need to bring back the Grand National.

I still drool when I see one of those, although it's very rare these days.

[Sooner04]

My buddy is restoring one right now and I was giving him hell about driving a Buick. All I knew of Buick was Skylarks and what not.

I got in that thing and...............whoa. Holy ****.

Needless to say, I've refrained from making any more Buick jokes. We were a blur.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

he just going with the single turbo v6? there was a dual turbo version around that was done by calloway i think.

[Beef]

Didn't GM brand a Monte Carlo SS that was the same thing, but not black?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I still drool when I see one of those, although it's very rare these days.

there were only like 4000 true grand nationals ever produced. i bought an 87 "turbo regal" for my wife after we got married. she was pissed that i was insisting she get one. the anger lasted until the first time she put her foot into it and sat there with black smoke pouring behind the car. to this day she still uses it as a benchmark when she is test driving a car.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I wonder what ESPN will do now for the Pontiac Game Changing Performance?

as much as the gov is giving these folks, it should become the barack obama game changing performance

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Didn't GM brand a Monte Carlo SS that was the same thing, but not black?

sort of, it was a V8 car, not a turbo v6. it was rated at like 200 HP whereas the GN was at 286. if buick came out with one now, i'd bet the GN would be at about 440 or 450 with a twin turbo v6. they might even make it like the diesel trucks with a low speed turbo (quad turbo?)

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

oh, and one more thing about hummer. that car is quickly becoming a status symbol in europe and the middle east. you may not sell a bunch of them in the US, but around the world that would be a good buy for a chinese/japanese car maker.

[Sooner04]

he just going with the single turbo v6? there was a dual turbo version around that was done by calloway i think.
That's a good question. I'll ask him when I see him tomorrow night.

He's already bought the original 140 MPH speedometer off of Ebay. He's cleaning up the interior as he goes along under the hood. His is an 86.

I'll get some specifics tomorrow and get back to you with some details. That sucker is sweeter than sweet.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

That's a good question. I'll ask him when I see him tomorrow night.

He's already bought the original 140 MPH speedometer off of Ebay. He's cleaning up the interior as he goes along under the hood. His is an 86.

I'll get some specifics tomorrow and get back to you with some details. That sucker is sweeter than sweet.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/buick_v6_turbo_block/index.html

yeah, this is similar to the engine in that custom car. much like the twin turbo calloway corvette it was seriously prone to meltdowns - both of the engine and the turbochargers.

[yermom]

my only gripe with the GN is the lack of a manual gear box

they did flirt with the supercharged version of the 3800 motors in FWD stuff lately. but bleh.

the Typhoon/Cyclones were pretty cool as well

[Beef]

sort of, it was a V8 car, not a turbo v6. it was rated at like 200 HP whereas the GN was at 286. if buick came out with one now, i'd bet the GN would be at about 440 or 450 with a twin turbo v6. they might even make it like the diesel trucks with a low speed turbo (quad turbo?)

Thanks for clearing that up. A buddy of mine had an SS in high school that he said could run with a GN, but I guess that was after some mods that he did.

[OUDoc]

The GN outran Corvettes. Not much in the 80's could keep up.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

my only gripe with the GN is the lack of a manual gear box

they did flirt with the supercharged version of the 3800 motors in FWD stuff lately. but bleh.

the Typhoon/Cyclones were pretty cool as well

buick didn't wanted to make any more GNs after the first year. it was a classic case of stumbling on to the automotive equivalent of gold in a mine and shutting it down because you only want to mine zinc.

the only reason they were produced after 1982 was becauase of the monumental demand for them. when they finally ramped them up to full production in 87 they sold out of GNXs. the problem was that was the last year of them and they said that pontiac would be considered the performance division.

the pontiac engineers apparently were beaten up by turbochargers as kids because they immediately tried to move the grand prix and everything over to superchargers. what they apparently forgot was that one of the huge reasons for the appeal of the grand national was that you could get 22+ MPG with the thing if you kept your foot out of it. however, if you wanted to blow the doors off of the vette next to you, it was available by pushing the pedal. with the supercharger always on, you couldn't play econ/power with the car and lost MPG.

i just also can't see a GN as a front wheel drive car. blech.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

The GN outran Corvettes. Not much in the 80's could keep up.

yep. it wasn't until the twin turbo supercar variants came out (3000gt (stealth), nissan Z, eclipse, etc) that they really had competition.

you also have to take into account that the new body style of the corvettes from 84-87 were almost given the lemon tag. it wasn't until 88 or so that they got the graphite leaf spring problems ironed out.

[Sooner04]

The GN outran Corvettes. Not much in the 80's could keep up.
They were also outselling the Corvettes, and that's why GM flushed them.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

They were also outselling the Corvettes, and that's why GM flushed them.

humorously, the corvette's sales stats dropped off substantially (50%) after the GN was pulled.

[BudSooner]

Y'all should look up the Plymouth Horizon of the same model years, those things screamed for a itty bitty car...ugly as **** but ****ing screamed when deep in the RPM range, i'm thinking it was a intercooled turbo model.

I'm also thinking the Grand National GSX was the twin turbo model, those ran like stink.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

yeah, i think those were also the first years that shelby was running SVT on the fords.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

I'm also thinking the Grand National GSX was the twin turbo model, those ran like stink.

the GNX was a factory twin turbo model, but the version i'm talking about was after-market (similar to roush/saleen mustangs now)

[BudSooner]

the GNX was a factory twin turbo model, but the version i'm talking about was after-market (similar to roush/saleen mustangs now)
Ah, I think what you are referring to were the limited edition Gale Banks models...they had a larger turbo and waste gate, larger injectors.

Ken Dutweiller ran a pro stock GN, V6 was pretty close to stock(compared to the competition that ran 500CI Fords/Chevy/Mopar)and was UBER quiet...he damn near always beat the big boys and pissed them off in the process.
Shortly afterwards, the NHRA banned the Buick V6 Turbo's from competition in Pro Stock.

[yermom]

you should see what a turbo boxer 4 can do ;)

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

you should see what a turbo boxer 4 can do ;)

i always figured you for a 911 GT2 type

[BudSooner]

you should see what a pair of boxers on a guy can do for me ;)
:eek::D

[BigRedJed]

Carroll Shelby didn't get re-involved with Ford until '04, when he did the Shelby GT500 concept. He wasn't involved with SVT at all when it was formed in '93. I think he might have still been under contract with Chrysler then. SVT was run by John Plant and Robert Burnham.

Ford still had the rights to the Cobra name and used it for the SVT Mustang model. That was the first to use There was a little bit of grousing from Shelby at the time, if I remember. Anyway, I guess it's all patched up now.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Carroll Shelby didn't get re-involved with Ford until '04, when he did the Shelby GT500 concept. He wasn't involved with SVT at all when it was formed in '93. I think he might have still been under contract with Chrysler then. SVT was run by John Plant and Robert Burnham.

Ford still had the rights to the Cobra name and used it for the SVT Mustang model. That was the first to use There was a little bit of grousing from Shelby at the time, if I remember. Anyway, I guess it's all patched up now.

yeah, i was thinking of the little shelby dodges that led up to the viper. they were running around from 82-88. for some reason i was thinking they were ford escorts and not dodges.

[BigRedJed]

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but some Oklahoma investors that include Mark Moore, son of the late Bob Moore, are making a pitch to GM to buy Saturn. Their company is the one that has underwritten a bunch of these recent long-term buyer assurance programs. Hyundai is one of their clients. I guess they have quietly become a really big deal in the industry.

Could probably be picked up for some loose change, and who knows, maybe turn into something special for the state.

[BigRedJed]

yeah, i was thinking of the little shelby dodges that led up to the viper. they were running around from 82-88. for some reason i was thinking they were ford escorts and not dodges.
Yeah, I'll bet he'd just as soon you (and everyone else) continued to forget the details of that portion of his career.

[yermom]

i always figured you for a 911 GT2 type

i REALLY need to drive a Porsche

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

i REALLY need to drive a Porsche

your inner yuppie demands it

[BigRedJed]

WkZXxIdPoPE

[yermom]

i've heard of those turbo minivans doing crazy stuff :D

i think it's a 2.4L 4cyl with a Mitsubishi turbo if i remember right. you can crank up the boost really easy

[def_lazer_fc]

A Jetta doesn't have 415 hp. ;)

im just saying that pontiac looks like a jetta....but made by pontiac.

[My Opinion Matters]

im just saying that pontiac looks like a jetta....but made by pontiac.

Oh yeah? Well your face looks like a Jetta made by Pontiac.

[OUDoc]

Oh yeah? Well your face looks like a Jetta made by Pontiac.

Well played.