Freddie Mac Insider "suicide"

[OklahomaRed]

Strange. Sounds like the Clinton's all over again. I particularly found the paragraph about Freddie Mac Executives having a disagreement over Obama's mortgage housing plan odd to just throw in the article? All of the school and social climbing just to kill yourself? I am going to wait and see if any other individuals who don't go along with the current administration and might have some type of inside information ends up dead?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i0670afSPpeLEmH2SgLHC51kmGJQD97NN9G80

[walkoffsooner]

I think his choice eventually may have involved prison.

[Frozen Sooner]

Strange. Sounds like the Clinton's all over again. I particularly found the paragraph about Freddie Mac Executives having a disagreement over Obama's mortgage housing plan odd to just throw in the article? All of the school and social climbing just to kill yourself? I am going to wait and see if any other individuals who don't go along with the current administration and might have some type of inside information ends up dead?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i0670afSPpeLEmH2SgLHC51kmGJQD97NN9G80
:rolleyes:

[C&CDean]

:rolleyes:

That's the best you got?

[Pricetag]

It didn't even deserve that much.

[C&CDean]

Give it time. If we start seeing a few more bodies floating in the Potomac you gotta go hmmmmm???

[Frozen Sooner]

That's the best you got?

:rolleyes:

[Pricetag]

Give it time. If we start seeing a few more bodies floating in the Potomac you gotta go hmmmmm???
If none turn up, will you guys bump this thread and admit how partisan and ridiculous it all was?

[tommieharris91]

Strange. Sounds like the Clinton's all over again. I particularly found the paragraph about Freddie Mac Executives having a disagreement over Obama's mortgage housing plan odd to just throw in the article? All of the school and social climbing just to kill yourself? I am going to wait and see if any other individuals who don't go along with the current administration and might have some type of inside information ends up dead?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i0670afSPpeLEmH2SgLHC51kmGJQD97NN9G80

I'm Ron Burgundy?

[boomerinhou]

Reminds me when the former vice chairman of Enron Cliff Baxter committed suicide in his black Mercedes in Sugar Land in the wake of the scandal.

What's the deal with these bean counters who can't take a little pressure?

:rolleyes:

[KC//CRIMSON]

You've been smoking too much Oklahoma Red.

[jkjsooner]

Strange. Sounds like the Clinton's all over again. I particularly found the paragraph about Freddie Mac Executives having a disagreement over Obama's mortgage housing plan odd to just throw in the article? All of the school and social climbing just to kill yourself? I am going to wait and see if any other individuals who don't go along with the current administration and might have some type of inside information ends up dead?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i0670afSPpeLEmH2SgLHC51kmGJQD97NN9G80

Serious question. Do you actually believe what you write?

I think there are pills for that type of paranoia.

[Jerk]

What's the deal with these bean counters who can't take a little pressure?

:rolleyes:

LOL! Well, I guess that this actually isn't funny.

Yesterday Freddie stated that prime loan defaults soared 50% in one month.

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/979-Here-It-Comes-Prime-Delinquencies.html

[jkjsooner]

Prior to being CFO, the guy was in charge of risk assessment.

I think he realized a monkey could have done a better job than he.

[jkjsooner]

LOL! Well, I guess that this actually isn't funny.

Yesterday Freddie stated that prime loan defaults soared 50% in one month.

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/979-Here-It-Comes-Prime-Delinquencies.html

Wait, we were told this was just a subprime problem... ;-)

Afterall, prime borrowers could easily afford a mortgage ten times their annual income.

[mdklatt]

Dear innerweb ****** *******s:

For the past few months, every time I click on the link for South Oval, I get redirected to WorldNutDaily. All my spyware and virus scans keep coming up clean. IE and Firefox both do the same thing. Any ideas?? :confused:

[olevetonahill]

Dear innerweb ****** *******s:

For the past few months, every time I click on the link for South Oval, I get redirected to WorldNutDaily. All my spyware and virus scans keep coming up clean. IE and Firefox both do the same thing. Any ideas?? :confused:

Put SO on Iggy
YWIA;)

[Harry Beanbag]

Dear innerweb ****** *******s:

For the past few months, every time I click on the link for South Oval, I get redirected to WorldNutDaily. All my spyware and virus scans keep coming up clean. IE and Firefox both do the same thing. Any ideas?? :confused:


Nope, no ideas. I've been having the same problem for eight years.

[Jerk]

Wait, we were told this was just a subprime problem... ;-)

Afterall, prime borrowers could easily afford a mortgage ten times their annual income.

There was no problem with prime loans until unemployment went through the roof. These aren't irresponsible people who got into too much debt and bought more than they could afford.

[OklahomaRed]

First, if they write it, why don't the go ahead and disclose it? What is "potential losses on mortgage securities tied to the Obama administration's housing plan" anyway?

"That relationship has been tense at times. Freddie Mac executives recently battled with federal regulators over whether to disclose potential losses on mortgage securities tied to the Obama administration's housing plan, said a person familiar with the deliberations who was not authorized to discuss the matter publicly.

Federal prosecutors in Virginia have been investigating Freddie Mac's business practices. But two U.S. law enforcement officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the Freddie Mac investigation, said Kellermann was neither a target nor a subject of the investigation and had not been under law enforcement scrutiny."

Paul Unger, who lives across the street from the Kellermanns, called the family a "solid, salt-of-the-earth kind of family".

From the article it sounds like he was a stand up guy. We all know why the mortgages were made. They were made because it was the "politically correct" thing to do. Now, a guy that knows the "dirty laundry" at Freddie Mac for the last 16 years, who is supposedly a "stand up guy", who seems to want to do the "right thing" since he friends are all telling him to get the hell out of there, ends up hung in his house?

Kellermann, a University of Michigan graduate who went to business school at George Washington University.

You would think someone that smart would know what was going on and wasn't running around the last 16 years with his "head us his arse", yet he isn't smart enough to find a better way to kill himself than to hang himself in his house? Come on people. Sounds like some crappy plot right off of some cheap Jason Borne movie with Tom Cruise it it.

I am smart enough to know that "shart happens" and that people do stupid stuff, but the push of the Obama administration and his lackies (aka. Barney Frank and Nancy Pelosi) shold have know about all the potential negative impact that could happen when you start giving people huge amounts of money they can no way in hell pay back is going to lead? It's going to lead to an economic collapse. You would think that people who want to wrench power away and move to a socialist state then they "might" have a plan? If they don't, then why the heck is Obama going after the CIA and the Bush administration in a prosecuratorial manner? He would be the 1st sitting US president EVER to do this?

I will do what I can to keep my money, my guns, and my freedom. The rest of you Obama deffenders on here can "keep the change." I'm not a radical, but I'm also not going to drink the koolaid when they start passing it around. Right now I'm just going to wait and see and continue to use my freedom to practice my rights.

[OUDoc]

http://www.yestodemocracy.com/.a/6a00e553a9e7ec8834011168a2382f970c-800wi

[Pricetag]

From the article it sounds like he was a stand up guy. We all know why the mortgages were made. They were made because it was the "politically correct" thing to do. Now, a guy that knows the "dirty laundry" at Freddie Mac for the last 16 years, who is supposedly a "stand up guy", who seems to want to do the "right thing" since he friends are all telling him to get the hell out of there, ends up hung in his house?

You would think someone that smart would know what was going on and wasn't running around the last 16 years with his "head us his arse", yet he isn't smart enough to find a better way to kill himself than to hang himself in his house? Come on people. Sounds like some crappy plot right off of some cheap Jason Borne movie with Tom Cruise it it.
You act like there's never been a history of financial folks offing themselves when the **** really hits the fan. Even "stand up guys" can crack. It's terribly tragic that he left behind a wife and small child, but again, it's not like people don't do it all the time.

Heh, are you actually suggesting that this guy was too smart to hang himself, thus the suicide is suspicious? That's a crappy plot all right, but it's no Bourne/Tom Cruise vehicle. It's an Encore Action/Brian Bosworth plot (sorry, Boz).

[soonerscuba]

Inane drivelWhy don't you just admit that you have a hunch based on politics about the suicide of a man you know nothing about at a crime scene we know nothing about? Obama isn't going to as easy of a target as Clinton for loony murder theories, how's the Whitewater investigation going these days?

[OUDoc]

Every non-Japanese suicide is a "shock" to friends and family.

[Dio]

Every Japanese kancho is a "shocker" to friends and family.

Fixed

[jkjsooner]

We all know why the mortgages were made. They were made because it was the "politically correct" thing to do.

No, they were made because Fannie and Freddie were, for a time, getting rich off of them. F&F don't buy subprime loans. They have limits on the size of mortgages they can buy. If anything their rules were more conservative than most lenders yet they managed to f themselves just like everyone else.

Believe it or not, lots of otherwise smart folks were clueless about the credit bubble. I don't know how or why they were but they were.

And please stop pretending that the Bush administration wasn't throwing all kinds of money at this problem as well.

There was an economist on the BBC yesterday who was saying that had these injections not been done we would already be in the middle of a great depression. The entire system was teetering on collapse last year. I don't know if he is right or wrong (but clearly the actions of Bernanke/Paulson/Bush/Geitner/Obama seemed to imply they were thinking that way as well). I do know that there's probably nobody on this board who is knowledgable enough to say which economists are right and which are wrong. There are plenty of disagreements among them and they don't follow neat conservative/liberal lines.

In either case, your inistence that this is just an Obama socialist ploy is laughable. Note that 3 of those 5 listed were either Republicans or appointed by a Republican.


You would think someone that smart would know what was going on and wasn't running around the last 16 years with his "head us his arse", yet he isn't smart enough to find a better way to kill himself than to hang himself in his house? Come on people. Sounds like some crappy plot right off of some cheap Jason Borne movie with Tom Cruise it it.

So there are smart and dumb ways to kill yourself? I guess jumping off of a tall building is the smart way since we've heard all sorts of stories from the Great Depression about bankers jumping to their death. And his method of suicide is some sort of proof of a conspiracy?

My goodness!

[Frozen Sooner]

F&F don't buy subprime loans.

By definition. :D

[Vaevictis]

We all know why the mortgages were made. They were made because it was the "politically correct" thing to do.

Apparently, we don't all know why they were made. And by "we", I mean you and your knuckle-dragging ilk who prefer to listen to political partisans instead of people in the banking industry who actually know what the **** they're talking about.

[NormanPride]

This reminds me of the "Bush hates black people" kind of talk. Obama hates rich people.

[Frozen Sooner]

Obama hates Rich.

:mad:

No wonder I didn't get a subsidized student loan.

[C&CDean]

Apparently, we don't all know why they were made. And by "we", I mean you and your knuckle-dragging ilk who prefer to listen to political partisans instead of people in the banking industry who actually know what the **** they're talking about.

Huh? I think there's a whole ****pot of people in the banking industry who don't have a ****ing clue about what they're talking about.

All of you people attacking Red need to remember how this whole dealio goes. When there's a conservative in office, you knuckle-draggers find all kinds of creative/unwarranted/out-and-out bull**** to rake the poor bastard over the coals on. You cretins villified GWB for 8 ****ing years - in ways that make Red's hypothesis look mild in comparison.

Also, a couple of semi-facts about suicide:

1. Most people who "attempt" suicide ain't really trying to kill themselves. They're crying for help.

2. The people who actually want to die kill themselves in very sure ways. You know, like a .44 mag in the roof of the mouth? A plunge off an 80-story building? A motorcycle front-on into a semi at 100 mph?

3. Cry for help suicide methods include hanging, pills, slit wrists, shooting oneself in the body somewhere, start the car in the garage kind of stuff. If you research these attempts, you'll find that most of them are done in places/times when the suicidee will be discovered by a family member or friend - or think they will. Most of the people who succeed at suicide using one of these methods are the result of something happening that the suicidee didn't anticipate and the "rescuer" didn't show up in time to stop it.

I happen to personally know (or I guess knew) two people who fall into the #3 category above in my life. One was a chick I went to school with who was psychotic all of her life. She had taken pills and cut her wrists a dozen times in her life. One day, she decides she's gonna try again, only this time she uses her boyfriend's .357. She waits until he's pulling up in the driveway, then shoots herself in the gut. Long story short, she blew a large chunk of her liver out her back, and died damn near instantly.

The other one was a co-worker and former gym mate who killed himself with a steak knife. Without going into the gory details, dude cut his wrists, then his carotid artery, then both femural arteries then continued to repeatedly stab himself in the stomach until he passed out from loss of blood. His girlfriend was on his way to pick him up for a New Year's Eve party and found him on the living room floor propped up against the wall with the knife stuck in his gut. The evidence showed he started with his wrists in the bathroom. Knowing the guy like I do, I honestly believe he was so ashamed at starting the act that he had to finish it. I don't believe he could have lived with "attempted suicide" by his name. His wounds were horrific.

Back on topic, quit being so critical of someone doing the same ****ing thing you've been doing since forever.

[tommieharris91]

Sorry Dean, but I'm going to trust someone who is currently trying to get an MBA over someone who has no experience or much education in banking.

[Vaevictis]

Huh? I think there's a whole ****pot of people in the banking industry who don't have a ****ing clue about what they're talking about.

Bankers know why they make loans, Dean. They're not 5 year olds that go, "I dunno" when you ask them why they did something.

[C&CDean]

Sorry Dean, but I'm going to trust someone who is currently trying to get an MBA over someone who has no experience or much education in banking.

Someone "trying to get an MBA??" OK.

If bankers and financial type were so smart, why are they all going belly up? Hell, I'm just a dumb Okie, and all of this "recession" hasn't affected my bottom line or my retirement one iota.

Listening to "smart" financial people all the time will get your tit in a wringer, sure enough. No offense Froze.

[C&CDean]

Bankers know why they make loans, Dean. They're not 5 year olds that go, "I dunno" when you ask them why they did something.

Yup. They make loans cause they're greedy mother****ers who don't give a **** if the dumbass they make the loan to dies tomorrow.

[Vaevictis]

I'm not saying that bankers are infallible, by any means. They make mistakes.

However when a banker says, "We made that kind of loan because we expected to make money off of it," I'm more inclined to believe them than not.

[Vaevictis]

Yup. They make loans cause they're greedy mother****ers who don't give a **** if the dumbass they make the loan too dies tomorrow.

No ****, which is my point. They don't make loans because it's "politically correct," as OklahomaRed said.

[C&CDean]

I guess we're saying the same thing.

[tommieharris91]

Yup. They make loans cause they're greedy mother****ers who don't give a **** if the dumbass they make the loan to dies tomorrow.

They would actually prefer the guy stay alive. Dead guys have trouble paying loans off.

[C&CDean]

Sorta. I'm no banker, but I'll bet banks have racial/ethnic/sex quotas just like everybody else.

[C&CDean]

They would actually prefer the guy stay alive. Dead guys have trouble paying loans off.

Nuh uh. I'm worth twice as much dead as I am alive.

[Frozen Sooner]

None taken. I take advice from you on how to run a financial institution much in the same way you'd take advice from me on how to run a hotel. ;)

We certainly did some pretty dumb stuff all right. I think what tommieharris and Vaevictus are saying is that we DIDN'T make loans simply because they were "politically correct." Seriously-the CRA (which is the boogeyman some kept trotting out for some reason) specifically states that you can and should turn down loans that don't meet solid underwriting criteria.

[C&CDean]

None taken. I take advice from you on how to run a financial institution much in the same way you'd take advice from me on how to run a hotel. ;)

We certainly did some pretty dumb stuff all right. I think what tommieharris and Vaevictus are saying is that we DIDN'T make loans simply because they were "politically correct." Seriously-the CRA (which is the boogeyman some kept trotting out for some reason) specifically states that you can and should turn down loans that don't meet solid underwriting criteria.

What about quotas? Any of that going on in the banking industry?

[Frozen Sooner]

Sorta. I'm no banker, but I'll bet banks have racial/ethnic/sex quotas just like everybody else.

Under HMDA we are required to report some race and sex data to show that we're not discriminating, but I can assure you that someone's race simply does not factor into the credit decision.

HMDA reporting only applies to a small percentage of loans anyhow. Only purchase-money mortgages and first refinances of a purchase-money mortgage.

To answer your question posed as I was typing: Not that I'm aware of. I've sat in on quite a few senior credit committee meetings in the past, and I don't recall anyone ever saying "We gotta make more loans to Mexicans" or something of the like. Can't guarantee it never happens, but I've never seen it.

[Frozen Sooner]

Yup. They make loans cause they're greedy mother****ers who don't give a **** if the dumbass they make the loan to dies tomorrow.

The hell I don't. I probably wrote a life policy on that deal, and since we're self-insured that takes a big bite out of our profitability.

[C&CDean]

Now we're back to the greedy mother****ers part, huh?:P

[starclassic tama]

Sorry Dean, but I'm going to trust someone who is currently trying to get an MBA over someone who has no experience or much education in banking.

haha. MBA is probably the easiest graduate degree to get. i'm surprised universities don't have a drive thru window handing out masters of business administration.

[Vaevictis]

haha. MBA is probably the easiest graduate degree to get. i'm surprised universities don't have a drive thru window handing out masters of business administration.

Heh, depends on where you get it.

I assure you, getting a full-time MBA at OU or an executive MBA at SMU -- not a walk in the park.

Speaking as someone who has an MS in EE and an MBA -- I wouldn't say that the MBA was appreciably easier than the EE degree. It was just hard in a different way.

[tommieharris91]

haha. MBA is probably the easiest graduate degree to get. i'm surprised universities don't have a drive thru window handing out masters of business administration.

So you mean my MBA from ITT should be used as toilet paper? ;)

[Frozen Sooner]

Now we're back to the greedy mother****ers part, huh?:P

Exactly. Plus handling deceased accounts is a royal pain in the ***. 90% of the people who're handling the estate dont' have any kind of clue what they need to do-which is understandible, and I try my best to point them in the right direction-but SO MANY of them get all kinds of belligerent about why I can't just hand them a check for $40k because they tell me that Maw died and they were always her favorite and they were supposed to get the money.

[Frozen Sooner]

haha. MBA is probably the easiest graduate degree to get. i'm surprised universities don't have a drive thru window handing out masters of business administration.

Aren't you the guy who's still working on his bachelor's?

[C&CDean]

Aren't you the guy who's still working on his GED?

More appropriate.

[OklahomaRed]

No ****, which is my point. They don't make loans because it's "politically correct," as OklahomaRed said.

Don't take a simple statement and make it into what you think. The bankers knew that if they made a dumb as*s loan, that the government was going to be there to yank their fat out of the fire, just as they did. So, hell yes, If I'm the banker I'm going to make that same stupid loan to somebody I KNOW has not frickin' way of paying it back. I'm going to make money either way. Too many people got caught with their damn hand it the cookie jar and too many greedy bastages started grabbing free government cookies and the cookie jar ran out and they couldn't get their dang hands out of there fast enough before it broke. And sure enough, unlce Sam came along and bailed out all them. I wish I could loan money like that. I'll loan you money and you and all your family has to pay me back if you are too stupid or lazy to pay your loan back. You don't think any of those Harvard educated MBA could figure that out?

[JohnnyMack]

That was awesome.

[Vaevictis]

Don't take a simple statement and make it into what you think. The bankers knew that if they made a dumb as*s loan, that the government was going to be there to yank their fat out of the fire, just as they did.

Heh. You have a really funny idea of what constitutes "yanking their fat out of the fire."

Have you paid any attention to what happened to equity holders of Fannie, Lehman Brothers, Bear Sterns, AIG, Wachovia, etc? Or the fact that of Wall Street's heralded major investment banks, only Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley still exist?

I didn't take a simple statement and make it into what I think. I took a stupid statement and pointed out that it was stupid.

[jkjsooner]

Have you paid any attention to what happened to equity holders of Fannie, Lehman Brothers, Bear Sterns, AIG, Wachovia, etc? Or the fact that of Wall Street's heralded major investment banks, only Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley still exist?


Red does have a point with Fannie and Freddie. There was always an implied guarantee for them. On that note, did Fannie equity holders really lose a lot? The equity holders of F&F always seemed to assume that they were implicitly guaranteed although not quite a strongly as the bond holders.

On the others, yes, a lot of the equity holders lost their shirts. That's something that gets ignored.

On the other hand, the people in power within these companies got their huge bonuses for years, even their bonuses after some of the bailouts, and in many cases got to keep their jobs.

It's the executives who run the companies not the owners (equity holders). They have and will make decisions in their own personal best interests.

[Vaevictis]

Wachovia -- Started 2008 at $35/share. Sold for $7/share to Wells Fargo.
Washington Mutual -- Started 2008 at $13/share. Trading at <$0.06/share.
Lehman Brothers -- Started 2008 at $45/share. Trading at $0.04/share.
Fannie Mae -- Started 2008 at $44/share. Trading at $0.80/share.
Bear Sterns -- Started 2008 around $90/share. Sold for $10/share to JPMorgan Chase.
AIG -- Started 2008 at $56/share. Trading at $1.39/share.

[starclassic tama]

Aren't you the guy who's still working on his bachelor's?

Aren't you the guy who's still working on his GED?

More appropriate.

i'm not working towards a bachelor's. i've got one year left until i "turn pro." after i complete my first year of medical school, UCO will award me a bachelor of science in chemistry with emphasis on health sciences. what degree(s) do you have?

[Frozen Sooner]

So the answer to "Still working on bachelor's" would be "yes"?

'Cause I'm thinking that someone who's still working on his undergraduate degree probably doesn't have a whole lot of standing to run down someone's postgraduate degree.

[starclassic tama]

i'm not working towards a bachelor's, i'm working towards entrance into medical school which doesn't require a bachelor's.

[Frozen Sooner]

Seriously? I'd never heard of a US med school that didn't require a bachelor's degree of some sort. To which school do you plan to apply?

Edit: Whaddya know. OU doesn't require a degree for admission to the medical school. Learn something new every day, I guess.

[starclassic tama]

OU. you have to satisfy all of the pre-med courses with a satisfactory GPA, and take the MCAT. you don't have to have a degree at all, not sure where you got that.

[Frozen Sooner]

http://medicine.uab.edu/education/prospective/46067/

With rare exceptions completion of an undergraduate degree is required and all work toward current degrees must be completed prior to matriculation to the medical school.

http://hms.harvard.edu/admissions/default.asp?page=requirements
At least three years of college work and a baccalaureate degree are required prior to matriculation in medical school.

[starclassic tama]

good thing i'm going to OU and not harvard. notice that UAB says with rare exceptions a degree is required. it's not the norm.

Minimum requirements to the College of Medicine are 90 semester hours with a cumulative grade point average of 3.0 and a Medical College Admissions Test (MCAT) score of 21.

[Vaevictis]

At OU Medical School, basically all you have to do is pass organic chemistry and not do horribly on the MCAT.

(There's a little more to it than that, but passing ochem is the hardest part.)

[mdklatt]

you don't have to have a degree at all, not sure where you got that.

This is why PhDs are the real doctors. ;)

[starclassic tama]

just depends on who you are. for a lot of people general chemistry is harder than organic. organic is a lot more conceptual with more memorization with almost no math.

a PhD is no doubt impressive. if i'm feeling really ambitious i can work towards a dual Ph.D./M.D.

[Curly Bill]

Since it's apparently acceptable to refer to some of the more conservative posters on here as knuckle-draggers, I assume I'd be fine in referring to some of the more liberal posters as "limp-wristed?" ;)

[Vaevictis]

I just don't understand people who find general chemistry difficult.

This probably has something to do with the fact that I just don't understand people who find basic algebra difficult.

[starclassic tama]

yoo tell them thar fags c-bass!

general chem 1 is no doubt really easy. gen chem 2 is substantially harder and requires more than basic algebra.

[Frozen Sooner]

good thing i'm going to OU and not harvard. notice that UAB says with rare exceptions a degree is required. it's not the norm.


It says the exact opposite of that, in fact.

Dunno, just pulled those two out because they were the first two not OU that I thought of. It appears that Pitt (little brother's med school) only requires 120 hours and doesn't require a bachelor's (but it's preferred.)

Just a new one on me, I guess. I always just assumed that admission to a graduate college required graduation.

Law school doesn't technically require a bachelor's degree either, but there's only one ABA-accredited law school that doesn't require it that I know of.

[starclassic tama]

With rare exceptions completion of an undergraduate degree is required and all work toward current degrees must be completed prior to matriculation to the medical school.

? am i reading that wrong?

[Frozen Sooner]

Since it's apparently acceptable to refer to some of the more conservative posters on here as knuckle-draggers, I assume I'd be fine in referring to some of the more liberal posters as "limp-wristed?" ;)

Try and I'll beat the **** out of you with my purse.

[Curly Bill]

Try and I'll beat the **** out of you with my purse.

...and I'll haul off and slug ya with by big-*** knuckles.

[Vaevictis]

general chem 1 is no doubt really easy. gen chem 2 is substantially harder and requires more than basic algebra.

I took them both, and I don't recall either of them requiring anything more than what I learned in high school algebra.

[Frozen Sooner]

With rare exceptions completion of an undergraduate degree is required and all work toward current degrees must be completed prior to matriculation to the medical school.

? am i reading that wrong?

If you're reading it as "We don't require an undergraduate degree except in rare circumstances" you are.

That sentence means "An undergraduate degree is normally required, but in certain cases we'll admit someone without one."

Maybe I misread your intent with "It's not the norm." I took that as you meant it was not the norm to require a degree at UAB. If you meant "It's not the norm to not have a degree" I apologize.

[Frozen Sooner]

...and I'll perform the five-finger knuckle shuffle.

Ew.

[starclassic tama]

then why doesn't it say with rare exceptions completion of an undergraduate degree isn't required?

[Vaevictis]

We've gone from paranoid schizophrenia to degree smack, to arguing over degree requirements.

This thread hasn't gone nearly as badly as expected.

[Frozen Sooner]

then why doesn't it say with rare exceptions completion of an undergraduate degree isn't required?

"With rare exceptions completion of an undergraduate degree isn't required" would have an entirely different meaning.

I think you're confused as to how "rare exceptions" modifies the sentence.

Let's strip the original sentence down a bit:

"With rare exceptions completion of an undergraduate degree is required[.]" (Throwing out the second clause, as it doesn't bear on what we're talking about.)

Strip out the "With rare exceptions" and you have "Completion of an undergraduate degree is required."

The modifier "With rare exceptions" means that "The following is true in the majority of cases, however, there are some circumstances where it applies."

Therefore "With rare exceptions completion of an undergradute degree is required" means "We normally require you to have an undergraduate degree. In some circumstances, we don't. It ain't normal to not have one."

[Frozen Sooner]

We've gone from paranoid schizophrenia to degree s*Mack*, to arguing over degree requirements.

This thread hasn't gone nearly as badly as expected.

Nah, nobody's arguing over degree or admissions requirements. We're just arguing over what words written in English mean.

[Vaevictis]

No, there was some degree requirements back there wrt what it takes to get into medical school.

Now grammar stuff.

Wow, now all we need is for someone to call someone a Nazi or a fascist, and this thread is complete.

[Frozen Sooner]

No, there was some degree requirements back there wrt what it takes to get into medical school.

Now grammar stuff.

Wow, now all we need is for someone to call someone a Nazi or a fascist, and this thread is complete.

I wouldn't call that an argument. That was me thinking it was tougher to get into med school than it actually is. I was corrected on that point and explained where I got my mistaken impression-namely, that some schools do require a degree and I assumed that all did.

You socialist pecker.

[Vaevictis]

Shut up, you fascist pig.

Okay, this thread has achieved internet nirvana. Lock it up and let it rest in peace.

[Jerk]

There was an economist on the BBC yesterday who was saying that had these injections not been done we would already be in the middle of a great depression.

My goodness!

Too bad we let our government bailout the banks on the backs of the taxpayers.

They should have done nothing. Yes, nothing.

Google 'depression 1920'

Maybe itd be soon over and we wouldnt have to drag this thing out forever and risk collapsing the Treasury.

[starclassic tama]

i was reading it like in rare exceptions completion of an undergraduate degree is required. the fact that you don't need a bachelor's doesn't mean it's easier to get in because they still require 90 hours worth of medical pre-requisites. most bachelor's are around 130 hours, with the other 40 or so being general ed stuff which generally isn't hard at all.

[Jerk]

Is this what a Great Depression looks like?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_nSTO-vZpSgc/SfCTyTAqCyI/AAAAAAAAF-M/DuTYu6N-hoA/s1600/gse%2Bnod%2B2009-03.png

Sorry to be so negative...I'm just sayin..

[Frozen Sooner]

i was reading it like in rare exceptions completion of an undergraduate degree is required. the fact that you don't need a bachelor's doesn't mean it's easier to get in because they still require 90 hours worth of medical pre-requisites. most bachelor's are around 130 hours, with the other 40 or so being general ed stuff which generally isn't hard at all.

I think you may be confused as to the difference between "exceptions" and "occasions." :D

But completion of those 90 hours of pre-med requirements plus making sure you still fulfill the Gen Ed stuff to get a degree in something would be tougher than just making sure you get those 90 hours, no?

Don't get me wrong-it's still tougher (at least in my opinion) to get into med school than it is to get a fluff degree. I just thought you had to finish a degree WHILE taking the hard science stuff-which is why so many Med Students major in something where a lot of those classes are required for the degree.

[starclassic tama]

I think you may be confused as to the difference between "exceptions" and "occasions." :D



no. it was a matter of syntax. that sentence would have more clarity if it read, "completion of an undergraduate degree is required prior to matriculation to the medical school, with rare exceptions."

[olevetonahill]

http://dcsleez.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/nerd-fight_thumb.jpg

[Vaevictis]

the fact that you don't need a bachelor's doesn't mean it's easier to get in because they still require 90 hours worth of medical pre-requisites. most bachelor's are around 130 hours, with the other 40 or so being general ed stuff which generally isn't hard at all.

You know you're not fooling anyone, right? There are degrees that finish all of the core requirements, less the unnamed elective hours, by the end of sophomore year.

[jkjsooner]

I just don't understand people who find general chemistry difficult.

This probably has something to do with the fact that I just don't understand people who find basic algebra difficult.

I made A's in the general chemistry courses but I definitely found them to be more difficult than physics courses.

Basic Newtonian physics is fundamental and makes a lot of sense. With chemistry, it's not as intuitive. You kind of have to accept things that don't really make sense on the human scale. Some people (like me) had a hard time just accepting all the little things that were not intuitive like energy levels and electron spin, etc. Keep in mind, you haven't had a quantum mechanics course at this point...

Also, chemistry involves at least some memorization...

[Vaevictis]

Well, the nice thing about Newtonian physics is that if you know calculus, you don't actually need to know Newtonian physics.

[starclassic tama]

You know you're not fooling anyone, right? There are degrees that finish all of the core requirements, less the unnamed elective hours, by the end of sophomore year.

i wasn't aware i was trying to fool anyone. i said you don't have to finish a degree to attend medical school(s, at least the ones in this state.) that doesn't necessarily mean it is easier to get in than if you did have to finish a degree because you still need to complete the vast majority of credits.

so what was your point again?

[Vaevictis]

i wasn't aware i was trying to fool anyone. i said you don't have to finish a degree to attend medical school(s, at least the ones in this state.) that doesn't necessarily mean it is easier to get in than if you did have to finish a degree because you still need to complete the vast majority of credits.

Do you really consider 90/130 to be "the vast majority?" That's maybe 70%.

On top of that, the core requirements only require you to complete classes which other hard science degrees finish by the end of their sophomore year.

In other words, the medical school requirements leave off where most science disciplines that utilize chemistry just start to get interesting.

So yes, it is easier to get the requirements in order if you don't have to have a bachelors.

[jkjsooner]

Well, the nice thing about Newtonian physics is that if you know calculus, you don't actually need to know Newtonian physics.

I know calculus and Newtonian physics but I don't really get what you're saying. Calculus doesn't exactly tell you that the rate of change of momentum is equal to the force exerted on the object. It doesn't tell you that the force from a heavenly body is indirectly proportional to the square of the distance to the object...

[Vaevictis]

Well, for the Newtonian mechanics stuff, my experience in physics was to just read the problem, and do some calculus.

I didn't have to memorize any formulas or anything. Want to know the position and you gave me the acceleration? Fine, integrate twice and off we go. Velocity? Integrate once. Or take derivatives to go the other way.

If you know calculus really well, you can get by in fundamental physics just by looking at the problem and doing some math.

(This is where I say, "Yeah, I was oversimplifying that a little bit. But not much.")

[Harry Beanbag]

http://dcsleez.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/nerd-fight_thumb.jpg


No kidding. In this thread people want to go to school for the rest of their lives. In another thread on this board people think if you can play basketball you don't even need to go to high school.

[Tulsa_Fireman]

i like skool lol im pre-med

[starclassic tama]

when you genuinely are interested in and like what you are doing it's not really like going to school for the rest of your life. so yeah, not real concerned with mediocre people chastising others for pursuing a dream.

[Harry Beanbag]

when you genuinely are interested in and like what you are doing it's not really like going to school for the rest of your life. so yeah, not real concerned with mediocre people chastising others for pursuing a dream.


Mediocre people. :D :rolleyes:

Perhaps you should go ahead and get a full blown bachelors degree before you start throwing "mediocre" around at other people.

[starclassic tama]

nah, not necessary. mediocre in this instance has nothing to do with education level. but it does include calling people nerds or fags for whatever for wanting to go to school

[Crucifax Autumn]

Hey look! A personal attack!

The guy's a moron. It's been confirmed on every thread he's ever posted on. He's either gonna come back with something witty or cry...don't care which.

I mean really StarSpastic Asthma...

You say you are pre-med and you're going to be a doctor, but you can't read a simple sentence and grasp the meaning. I do NOT want you to be the one reading my medical charts. It's hard enough to read that doctor handwriting you guys spend half your college days perfecting without the doctor also not understanding English. Can you imagine the poor bastard that goes in and has orders stating he has a reaction to Hydrocodone and yer illiterate *** says "that's good, it will cause the reaction of stopping the pain!"

I sentence you to 50 years in Leroy's bedroom. You guys make a cute couple.

[Harry Beanbag]

nah, not necessary. mediocre in this instance has nothing to do with education level. but it does include calling people nerds or fags for whatever for wanting to go to school

Maybe at some point in your premed studies, they'll teach you all about humor, sarcasm, and poking fun. You know, about the South Oval.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Oh...I went further than that myself!

[Harry Beanbag]

I sentence you to 50 years in Leroy's bedroom. You guys make a cute couple.


Dude. You are so right. :)

[Crucifax Autumn]

I cannot tell a lie!

[olevetonahill]

nah, not necessary. mediocre in this instance has nothing to do with education level. but it does include calling people nerds or fags for whatever for wanting to go to school

Im am Not mediocre, I prefer the term
"SubPrime "
Ya nerd :rolleyes:

[starclassic tama]

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/image.php?u=49125&dateline=1169708319 this guy calls me illiterate... now THAT is funny

[OUAlumni1990]

If I were to kill myself, I would find the most gorgeous, expensive prostitute and spend a whole week with her doing all the stuff I always wanted to do (but wife wouldn't let me) then charge it to my credit card. Then kill myself. But then, after the week I would probably be happy again and decide not to kill myself....until I had to pay the credit card, then I would be depressed again...

just random thoughts..

Continue...

[olevetonahill]

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/image.php?u=49125&dateline=1169708319 this guy calls me illiterate... now THAT is funny

One of yer better posts :rolleyes:

[starclassic tama]

1994's MOST BIZARRE SUICIDE

At the 1994 annual awards dinner given by the American Association for
Forensic Science, AAFS President Don Harper Mills astounded his audience in
San Diego with the legal complications of a bizarre death. Here is the
story.

"On 23 March 1994, the medical examiner viewed the body of Ronald Opus and
concluded that he died from a shotgun wound of the head. The decedent had
jumped from the top of a ten-story building intending to commit suicide (he
left a note indicating his despondency). As he fell past the ninth floor,
his life was interrupted by a shotgun blast through a window, which killed
him instantly. Neither the shooter nor the decedent was aware that a safety
net had been erected at the eighth floor level to protect some window
washers and that Opus would not have been able to complete his suicide
anyway because of this."

"Ordinarily," Dr. Mills continued, "a person who sets out to commit suicide
ultimately succeeds, even though the mechanism might not be what he
intended. That Opus was shot on the way to certain death nine stories below
probably would not have changed his mode of death from suicide to homicide.

But the fact that his suicidal intent would not have been successful caused
the medical examiner to feel that he had homicide on his hands.

"The room on the ninth floor whence the shotgun blast emanated was occupied
by an elderly man and his wife. They were arguing and he was threatening her
with the shotgun. He was so upset that, when he pulled the trigger, he
completely missed his wife and the pellets went through the a window
striking Opus.

"When one intends to kill subject A but kills subject B in the attempt, one
is guilty of the murder of subject B. When confronted with this charge, the
old man and his wife were both adamant that neither knew that the shotgun
was loaded. The old man said it was his long-standing habit to threaten his
wife with the unloaded shotgun. He had no intention to murder her -
therefore, the killing of Opus appeared to be an accident. That is, the gun
had been accidentally loaded.

"The continuing investigation turned up a witness who saw the old couple's
son loading the shotgun approximately six weeks prior to the fatal
incident. It transpired that the old lady had cut off her son's financial
support and the son, knowing the propensity of his father to use the shotgun
threateningly, loaded the gun with the expectation that his father would
shoot his mother. The case now becomes one of murder on the part of the son
for the death of Ronald Opus.

There was an exquisite twist. "Further investigation revealed that the son
[Ronald Opus] had become increasingly despondent over the failure of his
attempt to engineer his mother's murder. This led him to jump off the
ten-story building on March 23, only to be killed by a shotgun blast through
a ninth story window.

"The medical examiner closed the case as a suicide."

[Crucifax Autumn]

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/image.php?u=49125&dateline=1169708319 this guy calls me illiterate... now THAT is funny

Yes. An English major with a career in graphic arts who has an avatar with 2 babes hanging off him called you illiterate.

And your reply is: "I'm gonna post a picture that already accompanies the very post I'm crying about!"

Make me a list of people on this site that DON'T think you are a troll and an idiot. Please.

[olevetonahill]

So you fixin to Jump ?

[Frozen Sooner]

Of course it was a suicide when Opus jumped off a 9 story building. Penguins can't fly.