Ours is not a history of arrogance. It is of courage, self-sacrifice, and honor!

[sooner n houston]

As I was sitting in church waiting for the start of the service, my grandpa came walking towards me pointing his finger. No matter how old I get, and no matter how long he's been out of the U.S. Navy, that's still an intimidating sight. As he approached me, his voice quivered as he said, "We saved that continent twice...how dare my president apologize for this country's arrogance." My grandpa is right. Americans need not apologize to the world for their arrogance; rather, Americans should apologize to their forefathers for the arrogance of their president.

Barack Obama's first foreign trip as President of the United States has confirmed the naiveté so many of us feared during the election cycle. But worse than that, it has also demonstrated that our president suffers from either a complete misunderstanding of our heritage and history, or an utter contempt for it. Neither is excusable.

Garnering cheers from the French of all people, President Obama declared, "In America, there is a failure to appreciate Europe's leading role in the world. Instead of celebrating your dynamic union and seeking to partner with you to meet common challenges, there have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive." Consider that Obama spoke these words just 500 miles from the beaches of Normandy, where the sand is still stained with 65-year-old blood of "arrogant Americans."

Indeed, columnist Mark Whittington observes, "One should remind Mr. Obama and the Europeans how America has 'shown arrogance' by saving Europe from itself innumerable times in the 20th Century. World War I, World War II, the Cold War, and the wars in the Balkans were largely resolved by American blood, treasure, and leadership." But all that appears lost on the president's seemingly insatiable quest to mend fences he imagines have been tarnished by the bullish George W. Bush.

If Obama wishes to continue trampling the presidential tradition of showing class to former office holders and publicly trash Bush for his own personal gain, so be it. But all Americans should make clear that no man – even if he is the president – will tarnish the legacy of those Americans who have gone before us. Ours is not a history of arrogance. It is a history of courage, self-sacrifice, and honor.

When abusive monarchs repressed the masses, Americans resisted and overthrew them. When misguided policies led to the unjust oppression of fellow citizens, Americans rebelled and overturned them. When millions of impoverished and destitute wretches sought a new beginning, Americans threw open the door and welcomed them. When imperial dictators were on the march, Americans surrendered their lives to stop them. When communist thugs threatened world peace, Americans bled to defeat them. When an entire continent was overwhelmed with famine and hunger, Americans gave of themselves to sustain it. When terrorist madmen killed the innocent and subjugated millions, Americans led the fight to topple them.

This is the legacy that generations of Americans have left. If President Obama seeks stronger relations with the world community, perhaps he should begin by reminding them of these very truths, rather than condemning his own countrymen on foreign shores.

This "obsessive need to put down his own country," has caused blogger James Lewis to call President Obama a "stunningly ignorant man" who has evidently never spoken to a concentration camp survivor, a Cuban refugee, a boat person from Vietnam, a Soviet dissident, or a survivor of Mao's purges.

Unfortunately, I can no longer bring myself to give Mr. Obama that benefit of the doubt. Not after looking at the pain in my grandpa's eyes...a man who still carries shrapnel in his body from his service to this country.

As a student and teacher of history, I recognize that America has made mistakes...plenty of them, in fact. But one of the great things about our people has been their courage and humility in admitting and correcting those mistakes. God willing, they will prove that willingness again in four years and correct the mistake that is the presidency of Barack Obama.

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Perspectives/Default.aspx?id=488996

[olevetonahill]

Yup
Yall got it Going
Took 24 years befor I got My 1st "Welcome Home "
And that was By a Nutty Nam vet in front of the VA clinic In Tulsa 1992 thank ya
Tell ya what . Ill stay the **** outta yer threads that talk ****
Leave us Vets out of yer shat . Ok ?

[My Opinion Matters]

Oh boy.

[OU4LIFE]

anybody got a match?

[Veritas]

Language doesn't have negative words strong enough to communicate my perception of President Obama.

[JohnnyMack]

The American populace remains by and large terrible at introspection.

[NormanPride]

I view this differently, but I am young. Should we not have to continually earn our respect? I do not agree that we are always at fault, but arrogance has been part of our image for a while. Some arrogance is fine, but a disregard for the world's feelings is unforgivable, even for a country that saved it 60 years ago.

This, however, does not give the President the right to belittle his people on foreign soil. That's for the Dixie Chicks and Michael Moore to do. ;)

[yermom]

at what point are we going to stop hanging our hats on what our grandfathers did?

reminding the world what we did 50 years ago might sound romantic, but i doubt it's going to have all that much power when most people weren't alive to see it

[NormanPride]

The American populace remains by and large terrible at introspection.

This is true of all nations, I think. America is guilty of arrogance, but all other nations are guilty of jealousy.

[SoonerTroll]

at what point are we going to stop hanging our hats on what our grandfathers did?

reminding the world what we did 50 years ago might sound romantic, but i doubt it's going to have all that much power when most people weren't alive to see it

WOW :eek:

[sooner n houston]

Tell ya what . Ill stay the **** outta yer threads that talk ****
Leave us Vets out of yer shat . Ok ?

Is this directed at me? If so, can you maybe say it in english? TIA.

[Veritas]

The American populace remains by and large terrible at voting.
Fixed.

[sitzpinkler]

I am a vet and am in no way offended by what President Obama said. Arrogance is not a virtue, no matter how you want to spin it. Whoever wrote that article is seriously reaching. What he said in no way tarnishes what our veterans of the past have accomplished. In fact, it has nothing to do with veterans AT ALL. He said AT TIMES we have shown arrogance as a country, and that is true. That article is idiotic.

[SoonerProphet]

sometimes I weep for reading comprehension.

[StoopTroup]

The biggest mistake being made is financial in our Country.

What Obama is doing abroad is really trying trying to keep trade and business going. All the in-between rhetoric is just bait IMO. Nobody is going to change most American's minds. The political threads on this board for an example are an indication of that IMO. Everyone has a view on what the problem is and some even think they know what the fix is.

Sitting around waiting for the next batch of Republicans to come to our rescue makes me want to puke. They came to our rescue after 9/11 in the form of an 800 million dollar bailout. Clinton did it. GH Bush did it. Reagan did it. They all borrowed from the Tax Payers in this Country to keep the Gov't rolling. We've been on the road to ruin for a long time. Obama doesn't look like he can fix it either. Making it worse seems to be the logical conclusion for finding a fix. America is at it's best when confronted with a disaster. This Administration is just fallout from the disaster of the last 28 years of Federal Mismanagement. Hell the State of Oklahoma is mismanaging it's economy as well. They have to just to try to keep up with getting their share of what's left after the U.S. is completely broke and driven to bankruptcy.

GWB signed the 2005 change in the bankruptcy laws that drew the death blow into our economy of borrowers. Without the ability to walk away from debt that you've created in your own life...you have to figure out a way to pay down that debt. This will mean you no longer can spend like a drunken sailor. It might take ten years for these Corporations who have fed off all of us to realize that many of us have no faith in them anymore. They have manipulated everyone into debt and lifestyles that require them to sellout good financial thinking for a way to keep the bills paid. America is now living on paying the minimum payments on their debt in order to keep from going into foreclosure.

The real question is...which Country on our globe dares try to foreclose?

Will they ever try?

If you get rid of your military and weapons...you make that a more likely scenario IMO.

[Lott's Bandana]

Yup
Yall got it Going
Took 24 years befor I got My 1st "Welcome Home "
And that was By a Nutty Nam vet in front of the VA clinic In Tulsa 1992 thank ya
Tell ya what . Ill stay the **** outta yer threads that talk ****
Leave us Vets out of yer shat . Ok ?


I'm confoozed Vet, what did he say that got you riled up?

I read quite a bit of 'spek there...

Jus askin'.

[OU4LIFE]

at what point are we going to stop hanging our hats on what our grandfathers did?

Hanging our hats? I'd prefer to call it respecting. One trip to the beach at Normandy would probably change your perspective for what those men did. and IMO, the sacrifice of life that was made there deserves more than a few lifetimes of respect. regardless of what we are doing now.


reminding the world what we did 50 years ago might sound romantic, but i doubt it's going to have all that much power when most people weren't alive to see it

which is sad. I wasn't alive to see it either, but I can sure as hell respect it. 90% of todays youth has no freaking idea what it even means to give that kind of sacrifice, myself included. It's all just a ****ing video game to them.

[Crucifax Autumn]

I think there is a confusion of different points here.

Of course we should honor and respect what those guys did and we should never stop doing so.

However, the other point here is that Americans can't truly expect that we can act how we want and have the Europeans and the rest of the world 60 years later continue respecting us on that basis when we may not be living up to our legacy.

[Lott's Bandana]

at what point are we going to stop hanging our hats on what our founding fathers did?

reminding the world what we did 233 years ago might sound romantic, but i doubt it's going to have all that much power when nobody was alive to see it


Same thing, only different.

[yermom]

Hanging our hats? I'd prefer to call it respecting. One trip to the beach at Normandy would probably change your perspective for what those men did. and IMO, the sacrifice of life that was made there deserves more than a few lifetimes of respect. regardless of what we are doing now.



which is sad. I wasn't alive to see it either, but I can sure as hell respect it. 90% of todays youth has no freaking idea what it even means to give that kind of sacrifice, myself included. It's all just a ****ing video game to them.


you miss my point.

"my grandfather saved your ***" doesn't carry a lot of weight with the rest of the world. to constantly remind them about that doesn't exactly ingratiate them with us. especially now that we no longer resemble the "Greatest Generation" with our throw away culture and world bankrupting ways

maybe if America was still about courage, self-sacrifice and honor, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. our history is the past. if our current actions don't reflect that, then it spoils that legacy

[OU4LIFE]

I get your point.

and I agree that we no longer resemble that generation. In some ways, that's a good thing, but in most ways...not so much.

We have become a generation of what-can-you-do-for-me, spoiled-***-timeout-instead-of-***-beating, products of our environment.

[TUSooner]

For those who don't like [Obama, Clinton, Bush, other], EVERYTHING can be construed as conclusive proof that [Obama, Clinton, Bush, other] is the ruin of our Nation. What hurts our Nation is the gullibility and shallowness off people who believe, without questioning, every scrap of diatribe or drivel that they might tend to agree with. (That's not new, by the way, it's as old as our Nation itself.)

[StoopTroup]

Don't write checks your *** can't cash.

I think my Grandfather told me that. I cashed them anyway. BTW...he was right. Now I tell my kids the same thing.

[theresonly1OU]

maybe if America was still about courage, self-sacrifice and honor

A leader who embodies those qualities is at LEAST 4 years away.

[theresonly1OU]

Same thing, only different.

C'mon lott; you talkin' about taking Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson's meal ticket away.

Can't have that.

[picasso]

at what point are we going to stop hanging our hats on what our grandfathers did?

reminding the world what we did 50 years ago might sound romantic, but i doubt it's going to have all that much power when most people weren't alive to see it

the hell does that mean? We're still the most giving nation in the world. We're also the only ones who will tackle the dirty, nasty problems out there.

pfft. sheesh.

[StoopTroup]

A leader who embodies those qualities is at LEAST 4 years away.

Maybe not even in our lifetime.

[KC//CRIMSON]

As I was sitting in church waiting for the start of the service, my grandpa came walking towards me pointing his finger. No matter how old I get, and no matter how long he's been out of the U.S. Navy, that's still an intimidating sight. As he approached me, his voice quivered as he said, "We saved that continent twice...how dare my president apologize for this country's arrogance." My grandpa is right. Americans need not apologize to the world for their arrogance; rather, Americans should apologize to their forefathers for the arrogance of their president.

Barack Obama's first foreign trip as President of the United States has confirmed the naiveté so many of us feared during the election cycle. But worse than that, it has also demonstrated that our president suffers from either a complete misunderstanding of our heritage and history, or an utter contempt for it. Neither is excusable. BLA BLA BLA....


S--------T---------R----------E------------T------------C---------------H

[StoopTroup]

Here's some folks who seem to be making changes. I'm betting you'll see even more of this.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/offbeat/2009-04-14-survivalistsinside14_N.htm


"The earn, spend, earn era has come to an end for us," he says on truenorthfound.blogspot.com, their blog. "The idea of living a fuller, more satisfying life seems simple to us now. ... Money, cash, credit, maybe they don't matter. Maybe, just maybe, it is those things that impede our ability to be truly happy."

Whatever happens to the economy, the Wojtowicz family hopes to remain self-sufficient. Instead of spending their tax refund, as they usually did, they used it to pay down debt. They stopped using credit cards and they're trying to build up savings. "I'm working harder than ever," Patrick says, "but it's more satisfying work and ... it's much easier to sleep at night."

Change like this isn't coming from a New President...it's coming from smart people who have figured out how to even enjoy a $10 Football Scrimmage. :D

[Vaevictis]

In my experience, you don't need to remind Europeans about what America did for them in the last century.

I have a fairly broad base of British and French acquaintances through my family and work. You don't have to tell them about WWI, WWII, or the Cold War. They know, and they appreciate it.

It's this attitude we've had in the past 8 years that they don't appreciate. We have been arrogant and dismissive with some of our strongest partners during the last century.

And as far as "saving Europe" goes, you have to remember that we only truly saved about half of it. We let the Eastern Bloc languish under communist rule for half a century, and they remember it. (c.f. Western Betrayal) Expecting the Czechs or the Poles to look at us with gratitude is laughable.

And all of them are smart enough to know that in the Cold War, it wasn't America that saved them, it was America and her allies. Sure, the US may have been the lynchpin, but we didn't stand alone. And if we had, things may have turned out very, very differently.

The fact of the matter is, it's easier to get the stuff accomplished that we need to accomplish when you have strong allies working with you. Maybe a little humility will get us those allies, and frankly, I say that's a small price to pay. A show of humility doesn't prevent you from breaking out the big stick later if it's necessary.

The fact of the matter is, in case you guys haven't noticed, France and Germany over there are in the process of building the world's next superpower. The European Union is, roughly speaking, in the Articles of Confederation stage of building the next United States. If they succeed, the EU will easily match the US in terms of economic power, and once they've got the economic power, military is soon to follow if they so desire.

And don't forget that with Putin, Russia is on the rise again and going back to it's old ways. China is entering the world stage as a major power.

The world is changing, and the vacuum left by the collapse of the USSR may soon to be filled. We just might need the EU as friendly allies over the next 100 years. And if a show of humility now can pave the way to that, I'm all for it.

See, I'm a big fan of Teddy Roosevelt, as I'm sure most of you all are. But I think that some of you have forgotten that "carry a big stick" is preceded by "speak softly."

Teddy put diplomacy first, and he was right to do so.

[KC//CRIMSON]

But....but......but.......that mean ole Obama is stepping all over my dead great grandpappy!:rolleyes:

[Vaevictis]

Yeah, well, these *******s who act like America did it alone are spitting on someone else's grandpappy's grave.

My wife's step-father was at Juno beach. My wife had multiple uncles at Gold and Sword, and her father and another uncle were in the desert and Italian campaigns.

You want to talk about American arrogance? This thread is a perfect ****ing example. We may have been the lynchpin, but our guys did not stand and die alone.

[Jello Biafra]

you miss my point.

"my grandfather saved your ***" doesn't carry a lot of weight with the rest of the world. to constantly remind them about that doesn't exactly ingratiate them with us. especially now that we no longer resemble the "Greatest Generation" with our throw away culture and world bankrupting ways

maybe if America was still about courage, self-sacrifice and honor, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. our history is the past. if our current actions don't reflect that, then it spoils that legacy


how bout the original group of desert storm vets who were all but begged to come in and take over the country of kuwait so iraq wouldn't compeletly gut the place?
people were being killed, raped and brutalized for months before we were able to fully mobilize and run them out. bosnia? anyone? somalia? these aren't conflicts where we simply want to go in and punch someone in the mouth and move out. we put troops on the ground to stop people from being killed post them up until the host nation is strong enough to defend itself and then try to get the f outta dodge.


say what you guys want but we have been saving this whole fuggin planet since we were able to hold our own weapons as an infant nation. from thos faghut arsed weapon droppers south of england to the dirt farmers south of bahgdad... arrogant or not, we have been the cops for the whole planet for the better part of a century and maybe, just maybe, its time for us to step back and let the rest of the planet thin the gene pool.


phuck em all, with a stick!