Yikes! Okie bar passage rates take nosedive

[Okla-homey]

56% pass rate for the most recent barzam.

I wonder if people are getting dumber or the test is harder?

http://www.okbar.org/admissions/examresultsfeb09.htm

[badger]

From my impression, more students are in college that shouldn't be and more students stay longer (usually on their parent's dime) that shouldn't be. Since law degrees take longer than other degrees and have the stereotype of being a lucrative impression, guess where these students that shouldn't be staying in college so long dedicate their studies :D

[Okla-homey]

From my impression, more students are in college that shouldn't be and more students stay longer (usually on their parent's dime) that shouldn't be. Since law degrees take longer than other degrees and have the stereotype of being a lucrative impression, guess where these students that shouldn't be staying in college so long dedicate their studies :D

entirely possible. Still, the July '08 barzam had about an 85% statewide pass rate.

[badger]

entirely possible. Still, the July '08 barzam had about an 85% statewide pass rate.

I dunno homey - have you noticed more kiddos coming into your profession that don't seem to realize that it's the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow? :D

Back around grad time, I was just astonished to hear from colleagues that were planning to enter law school. Some were dedicated students that were in school solely to eventually pursue law. Others... well... you know.

[Frozen Sooner]

entirely possible. Still, the July '08 barzam had about an 85% statewide pass rate.

I could forward a couple of theories of why there's such a dip from July '08 to February '09.

1. The population taking the February '09 test is comprised at least partially of people who had failed the July '08 test already, an adverse selection.

2. The population taking the February '09 exam are comprised of students who took longer than six semesters to graduate, so the population exclude most of the top of the bell curve.

[starclassic tama]

buncha dumb frat boys taking it

[John Kochtoston]

I could forward a couple of theories of why there's such a dip from July '08 to February '09.

1. The population taking the February '09 test is comprised at least partially of people who had failed the July '08 test already, an adverse selection.

2. The population taking the February '09 exam are comprised of students who took longer than six semesters to graduate, so the population exclude most of the top of the bell curve.

I think the rate excludes non first-time takers. I think the overall rate was below 50%. There's a lot of bewilderment going on. My BIL passed, as did a good friend, but both those dudes were five-semester finishers, so you may be on to something with the seven-semester thing.

[Okla-homey]

I could forward a couple of theories of why there's such a dip from July '08 to February '09.

1. The population taking the February '09 test is comprised at least partially of people who had failed the July '08 test already, an adverse selection.

2. The population taking the February '09 exam are comprised of students who took longer than six semesters to graduate, so the population exclude most of the top of the bell curve.

and there is the more sinister theory, advanced by a colleague of mine that goes like this. The barzam, specifically the the essay half that tests on knowledge of state law, is graded by practicing lawyers. Maybe those folks have decided that in this economy, they wish to constrain the numbers of new competitors for clients' legal dollars.:D

I think that's hogwash, because we're busier than we've been in a long while. People are generally more litigious in tough times. Put another way, they sue over stuff they would have let slide during good times.

[Okla-homey]

I could forward a couple of theories of why there's such a dip from July '08 to February '09.

1. The population taking the February '09 test is comprised at least partially of people who had failed the July '08 test already, an adverse selection.

2. The population taking the February '09 exam are comprised of students who took longer than six semesters to graduate, so the population exclude most of the top of the bell curve.

the stats on the OBA website break out first -timers from repeaters. They sucked for both, but more so for repeaters. One constant is your best odds of passing are the first time you take it. The statistical odds of passage drop off considerably on subsequent attempts.

[Crucifax Autumn]

See if this trend continues. If it does, I am correct in my long-standing belief that people are becoming progressively more stupid across the board.

The average IQ has declined as well, to the point that the average person has barely over 150% the IQ of a chimp. I speak with teens on a regular basis through my daughter and they know far less about their world than I did at their age. Tech savvy, yes; smart, not so much.

I see no reason why this would be different among law students.

[Frozen Sooner]

the stats on the OBA website break out first -timers from repeaters. They sucked for both, but more so for repeaters. One constant is your best odds of passing are the first time you take it. The statistical odds of passage drop off considerably on subsequent attempts.

See, that's kind of a misleading phrasing. Your individual odds are no better the first time you take it and likely better the second, simply because you'll study harder after failing the first time (unless you got discouraged and didn't study the second time). However, the overall passage rate for those taking it the second time will be lower than those taking it the first time because you eliminate everyone who was good enough to pass the first time (those with natural genius or good study habits or both) and retain everyone who's never going to pass it (whether because they're idiots or simply can't study.)

Anyhow, just throwing some theories against the wall. It's entirely possible that the OBA is attempting to limit entry into the field. Not like the ABA and AMA haven't been guilty of such in the past.

[Crucifax Autumn]

130 or higher: 2.2% of the population.

120-129: 6.7% of the population.

110-119: 16.1% of the population.

90-109 (Average): 50% of the population.

80-89: 16.1% of the population.

70-79: 6.7% of the population.

Below 70: 2.2% of the population.

Koko the chimp supposedly has an IQ between 70 and 95, meaning that even the lowest estimate would make over 2% of people dumber than a chimp and the high estimate puts almost half the people you pass on the street dumber than a chimp, probably even more on the average trip to Wal Mart.

So while the people may "know" more than a friggin' ape, the ape has more mental agility and capacity to learn. Pretty didturbing if you ask me.

We're pretty close to some shackled human yelling about damn dirty apes, and I doubt people taking the bar are any exception.

[RacerX]

Would that include people who think a gorilla is a chimp?

[RacerX]

There may be a certain private school in OKC that has an incredibly shrinking endowment and has a certain reputation for not failing kids to keep the cash flowing. It also has a law school.

[OhU1]

The bar pass rate has always been too high/too easy. Further, too few law students are given the F they earned while floating through school. Same applies to undergrad. Easy lax standards has cheapened degrees and professional certifications for everyone.

Personally, I would like to see fewer people admitted to professional school and to college and for more people who don't pack the gear to get flunked out.

[LilSooner]

I am just so happy that my best good buddy passed. She was majorly stressing and she is about to have a baby, so this was one less thing to stress about. But she is ridiculously smart and got her MBA while getting her law degree.

[Okla-homey]

The bar pass rate has always been too high/too easy. Further, too few law students are given the F they earned while floating through school. Same applies to undergrad. Easy lax standards has cheapened degrees and professional certifications for everyone.

Personally, I would like to see fewer people admitted to professional school and to college and for more people who don't pack the gear to get flunked out.

I've always maintained the hardest thing about law school is being admitted.

They keep the barzam for that reason IMHO.

[SanJoaquinSooner]

I think Ole vet nailed the explanation perfectly on another thread:



Now Natural selection I can understand , But are we NOT dooming ourselves as the Dominate beings on this planet by keeping the Idjits and scum alive to continue breeding and weakening the gene pool ?
How about That "Survival of the fittest ?