Need a child custody/ support attorney recommendation in Tulsa

[s_c]

Need to get full legal custody of my 2 year old. I have physical custody, father and I were never married. I also need help enforcing a court ordered child support order and his portion of the medical expenses paid.

Father is trying to force Indian health care and Indian day care so that he does not have to pay anything. I do not feel this is in the best interest of my daughter.
Does anyone know an attorney in Tulsa that despises dead beat dads?? Please help!!

I am hoping someone has had some personal experience with these issues and can personally recommend an attorney and not point me to a "findanattorney" website.
Thanks!

[olevetonahill]

Homey is our Resident Tulsy attorney.
Good luck .

[StoopTroup]

What's wrong with Indian Health Care or Indian Daycare?

[Okla-homey]

Need to get full legal custody of my 2 year old. I have physical custody, father and I were never married. I also need help enforcing a court ordered child support order and his portion of the medical expenses paid.

Father is trying to force Indian health care and Indian day care so that he does not have to pay anything. I do not feel this is in the best interest of my daughter.
Does anyone know an attorney in Tulsa that despises dead beat dads?? Please help!!

I am hoping someone has had some personal experience with these issues and can personally recommend an attorney and not point me to a "findanattorney" website.
Thanks!

I know a guy. But it isn't going to free. How much you have to pay will be between you and him. Peem if you want his name and number. He's in Tulsa.

I'd try this first. You can sic DHS Child Support Enforcment on dad. That's free. The're pretty ruthless. Which is nice, because I don't have much use for dads who won't support their children. Under Oklahoma law, they can yank deadbeat dads' drivers license and business/professional licenses, intercept tax refunds, not to mention wage and/or bank account garnishments, and file property liens.

You can go to the local child support enforcement office if you want to open an enforcement case. The Tulsa offices are located at the State building, 4th floor, 440 S. Houston or 3840 S. 103rd East Avenue, Suite 109. Outside of Tulsa, you can go online and find the nearest office to you and schedule an appointment. They will tell you what paperwork to bring with you, etc.

http://www.okdhs.org/programsandservices/ocss/cssvcs/

There is also a tribal child support enforcement agency in Ada that goes after dads who won't support Indian children. The Chickasaw Nation Child Support Enforcement Department provides child support services to the following tribes: Chickasaw, Cherokee, Creek, Choctaw, Seminole, Sac and Fox, Absentee Shawnee, and Osage. Their contact details are as follows:

Chickasaw Nation
Department of Child Support Enforcement (CN CSE)
125 S Broadway
Ada, Ok 74820
Phone 580-436-3410 / Fax 580-436-3460
E-Mail: [email protected]

[Okla-homey]

What's wrong with Indian Health Care or Indian Daycare?

Maybe it isn't convenient? She shouldn't have to drive the little tyke an hour away for free or reduced price daycare. As far as IHS goes, if the child is eligible, Dad may have a point.

[s_c]

Indian Health Care - None are pediatrics, they could not even answer a few simple questions I had about her. You cannot call and make appointments, you must sit in a waiting room forever until your name is called, (this is a blast with a sick child) They offer no after hour care, which again is terrible if you ever have a sick child through the night or during the weekend, or forbid an emergency is to happen.
There dental is about as good, they will do maintenance but nothing cosmetic, and anesthisa is not covered.
She has seen the same pediatrician since she was born, and loves her doctor.
The doctor is also involved with her reoccuring health issues and knows her history.

Indian Day Care - You must attend a day care facility that accepts this. The day care she attends now is the same one she has attended for over a year. It is a clean, dependable day care where she loves to go everyday.
She is familiar with her teachers and surrondings.
There is still a copay with this, that I know he will not pay his portion.
The only one in my city that accepts this and has an opening, recently left a child there asleep until 7 pm after everyone had left.

Am I crazy for wanting to fight for the best for my daughter?

[StoopTroup]

There is also a tribal child support enforcement agency in Ada that goes after dads who won't support Indian children. The Chickasaw Nation Child Support Enforcement Department provides child support services to the following tribes: Chickasaw, Cherokee, Creek, Choctaw, Seminole, Sac and Fox, Absentee Shawnee, and Osage. Their contact details are as follows:

Chickasaw Nation
Department of Child Support Enforcement (CN CSE)
125 S Broadway
Ada, Ok 74820
Phone 580-436-3410 / Fax 580-436-3460
E-Mail: [email protected]

It sounds like the Dad is trying to support his child from what Mom is sayin'.

Sounds like Mom is just trying to make it hard on Dad.

[Okla-homey]

It sounds like the Dad is trying to support his child from what Mom is sayin'.

Sounds like Mom is just trying to make it hard on Dad.

I gathered he isn't paying what he was ordered to pay, and instead trying to insist she make different arrangments. He can't do that. That's for the court to decide. Generally, just remember, parents can't unilaterally decide to do something contrary to the court's order.

[Okla-homey]

Am I crazy for wanting to fight for the best for my daughter?

No. Of course not. But, if the court decides adequate care is available and affordable under your current child support order, it's unlikely to order baby daddy to pay you more for the best. That'll be on you. Good luck. srsly.

[StoopTroup]

Am I crazy for wanting to fight for the best for my daughter?

I don't think your crazy. If you want the best for your Daughter you should pay for it yourself. If Dad is trying and this has become what you think is best...for the child...you might win and get what you want...or...you might get a reality check and find out what it's like when you let DHS into your life and tell you how to raise your Daughter.

Be careful what you wish for. Fighting isn't always best for the child. Sometimes you have to quit being mad and wanting someone else to do what you want and accept what is really going to happen.

I wish the best for you and your Daughter and hope that you and her Father can work together for what is in the best interest of your child. Sorry your relationship didn't work out. Growing up with separated/divorced parents can suck for a kid. To bad the kids can't decide what they want. I'd bet we would all be surprised what they would really want.

My Father-in-Law is a Mall Santa. Has been for the last 10 years. Every year he gets kids on his lap and asks them what they want for Christmas. The most memorable one he told me about was the kid that said "I don't want anything for myself...I just want Daddy to quit hitting Momma". I hope that was never the case for you and the Father.

Good luck. I hope it works out for your Child. Being a parent isn't easy but I wouldn't trade all the money or benefits in the World for custody.

[s_c]

I am not trying to make it hard on Dad, I am trying to make him be responsible for the child we had. He was forced by DHS to pay support, which he did for 9 months of her life.
He now decides to quit his job and tells me I will not receive anymore money from him, so get used to it.
First off, this is not my money it is my daughters support. It is hurting her by doing without or being forced to use a lower standard health care or day care facility.
He is over 5,000 in arrerage, but from the few idiots that reply I am trying to make it hard on dad...it makes me want to say screw it, I do not need any of his help I can do this all on my own. Which is likely what will happen.
He has one child that lives with his mom that he does not take care of, he is not even allowed to take her a block down the road to buy her a candy bar.
Yet I try and stay fair and I do allow him every Saturday visitations.
Even though he brings her home early or doesnt show up at all.
Yes, I was a fool to have a child by a loser and I am paying for it, do noone has to reinforce that statement.

[badger]

I can understand the Indian medical care part. I could get free medical care but there are usually months upon months of waiting to get appointments scheduled -- because, you know, it's free and so everyone wants to use free medical care options.

I hear about these cases all the time through my work and if you have anything going for you, it's that you are the mom and that you've been the primary care giver, so, from my experience, that means that you will probably be able to make your own decisions in regards to your child's care. Unfortunately, the dad may not be forced to fund whatever your decision is, but at least you will be able to make it.

Good luck!

[StoopTroup]

Now...if your gonna start calling us idiots when we're trying to help you avoid some pitfalls...

God help that child.

You asked for assistance. If he's a dead beat dad and isn't going to pay...what are you going to do? Do you think DHS is going to go get him...pick him up and make him go to work?

Seriously...don't be an idiot. You better get a grip on what you are going to do for your child. Get his rights taken away so he no longer gets visits. If your not working...you better get a job with benefits. Also...you better accept the Indian benefits until you are able to pay for what you think is best for the child.

Dad probably won't do **** for you. You are going to have to stay on his *** until he's tired of running from you. When he decides to get another job...you'll have to find out and then go after a garnishment of his wages.

Again...we're not idiots...but you might want to look in the mirror.

[StoopTroup]

Also...don't sleep with anymore idiots.

[s_c]

I asked for a referral, and if my idiot comment hit you personally, maybe there was a reason. Either way, I apologize. I was just needing some good legal advice and wasn't sure where to start.
I know DHS will not pick his @@@ up and force him to work, I also know his rights cannot just be terminated, unless he is a threat or has been in trouble.
As much as I despise his daddy ethics, I still believe my daughter needs to spend quality time with her daddy. I can put my feelings aside.
I do work full time and though my insurance is not the best, it may be my decision to add her to mine. I fully love, support and know how blessed I am to have my daughter, and she has the best grandparents, uncles and aunts that are all involved with her. So your comment about God help that child was really uncalled for. More good comments should go out to single parents who are really trying to raise a good productive child, not your negative ones.
It just amazes me how the table gets turned a lot when I am the one who loves, raises, supports and wants the best for my child and the dad who wants to get out of all of this gets more comments like he is the good guy in all of this, and I am trying to bring him down....
and I already beat you to the snide comment of me falling in love with a loser. I did not just sleep with some guy, we actually had a 2 - 3 year relationship, just didn't work out.
What started off asking for a referral lead to you making me feel like crap.
Thanks for your time and your words even if are opinions are different.
My daughter and I will make it just fine together.

[StoopTroup]

My daughter and I will make it just fine together.

That's the most important part right there.

Again...I'm sorry the Dad is playing games with you.

If he's decided to make it hard on you...there isn't much you can really do about it. As Homey stated...your just going to waste more of your money trying to get him to do something he probably isn't going to do. I wouldn't let him see his Daughter again if he's not going to abide by the Court's decision. I seriously doubt that an Attorney is going to get you a better Day Care or better health insurance. If he's Indian and not working...it's all your ever going to get from him. Your original post seemed like you were looking for help. I just don't think hiring an expensive Attorney/******* is going to do much for your Daughter or you.

I despise deadbeat Dad's. I despise Mother's who use children to make Dad's do more than they are required too. If you didn't want stuff like this to happen...maybe working harder to stay together would have been a better situation for the child. Our Society seems to continue to get people to try to believe that a child is better off with only one Parent. I don't believe that. The children suffer when we fail them as Parents IMO.

If being in this situation makes you feel like ****...I'm sorry for that...but it wasn't I who got you there.

Good Luck. I hope it works out for your child.

[NYC Poke]

Heartless bastage. ;)

[Crucifax Autumn]

Big meanie!

[olevetonahill]

Been shafted By an ex in the past huh ?
Yer anger is showing :P

[Curly Bill]

Kinda didn't take too well to being called an idiot. ;) :D









Which we all know ST is not.

[Crucifax Autumn]

He's an idjit at every posse meeting after a few hours...just like all of us!

[Curly Bill]

He's an idjit at every posse meeting after a few hours...just like all of us!

Speak fer yourself!





...ya idjit! :P

[olevetonahill]

He's an idjit at every posse meeting after a few hours...just like all of us!

A gurl beat him up in the 3rd grade and took his lunch money .
hes been ****ed up ever since .:D

[Curly Bill]

A gurl beat him up in the 3rd grade and took his lunch money .
hes been ****ed up ever since .:D

That does warp a fella.

[Crucifax Autumn]

A girl took my lunch money in 3rd grade too, but it was in return for a bj so all was cool.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Well, I can tell you he can't force either...I'm not a lawyer, but I work for IHS(Choctaw) and know

1. He doesn't want to get tribes involved in this dispute...it wouldn't work out well for him.

2. My brother pays insurance for his kids even though they are indian to his ex-wife and he pays day-care...he has no choice and neither does this guy

[Crucifax Autumn]

In all seriousness we oughtta round up the posse and go see what this retard's problem is. Maybe give some subtle hints about what happens if he doesn't act right.

[StoopTroup]

Well, I can tell you he can't force either...I'm not a lawyer, but I work for IHS(Choctaw) and know

1. He doesn't want to get tribes involved in this dispute...it wouldn't work out well for him.

2. My brother pays insurance for his kids even though they are indian to his ex-wife and he pays day-care...he has no choice and neither does this guy

Your probably right about that. Many of us have the opinion that if two Adults can't work together for the good of the child...neither of them are going to be very happy with what I would put them through.

I hope this Dad gets some folks on his rear.

I had a neighbor who told me his divorce in Chicago went very differently for him. When he was standing before the Judge...the Judge says..."Listen and listen good...you've been given instructions by me to pay your alimony and child support. Don't think for a second that if you decide to quit your job or not pay that I will give you a pass. I will have your *** arrested. You will be brought before me in this court and I will put you in jail until you beg me for mercy".

It's to bad the poster here can't get more support like that. The Dad shouldn't be allowed to just quit IMO, but he shouldn't be walking the streets when he owes $5000 in back support either.

I also had a friend who divorced and re-married. His Ex-wife also re-married. My friend got $18,000 behind and his ex later approached him with an offer. Allow my new Husband to adopt your child and I'll let the back child support go. I will always think my EX-FRIEND sold off his rights to his daughter over money. Of course he'd argue that she will always be his Daughter. By birth...it's true. But since that day...he's never seen or heard from his little girl. She's of age now and still doesn't see him. My ex-friend and his current Wife live in a $200,000+ Home and make over $250,000 per year combined. They could have paid and he could have kept his rights.

I'll never know how people make a choice of money over their kids.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

Then there is people like my brother who end up with about 150 dollars a week after paying their CS, and can't afford crap....and somehow his kids always have the same old clothes that my grandma consistently has to sow up...I ended up buying his daughter a jacket because she didn't have one...they always look ragged..but somehow she has the funds to get her stomach stapled and paying to get untied so she can have another one with the guy she is currently with..

I also thought it was a little bs to have to pay her child support while she was gone overseas for a year and my grandma was watching the kids while he worked...

[StoopTroup]

Then there is people like my brother who end up with about 150 dollars a week after paying their CS, and can't afford crap....and somehow his kids always have the same old clothes that my grandma consistently has to sow up...I ended up buying his daughter a jacket because she didn't have one...they always look ragged..but somehow she has the funds to get her stomach stapled and paying to get untied so she can have another one with the guy she is currently with..

I also thought it was a little bs to have to pay her child support while she was gone overseas for a year and my grandma was watching the kids while he worked...

That would be one of the women who deserve to lose custody IMO.

[Crucifax Autumn]

Or just shot in the desolate part of some woods.

[StoopTroup]

AMDC5cwiqcw&feature=haxa_popt00us08

[olevetonahill]

A MAN outta support his Younguns.
A woman dont always deserve custody.

If ya gonna have younguns you should think of THEM 1st and not be a selfish Ho/bastage.

Plus Make Dayum sure the Person whos gonna be baby Momma/ daddy , is some on you WILL spend yer life with. Not just have a few years of good sex , and then move on to the next .
When My 1st ex left I got custody of 2 of My kids , she got 1 .
I pd support fer the 1 and never got a thing Nor asked for anything for the 2 I was raisin ;)

[stoops the eternal pimp]

You know young lady poster, I know a certain poster here who you should meet...He is a refined gentleman and knows how to treat a lady..He could make you forget your worries..

Rico Suave (http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/member.php?u=38933)

[Crucifax Autumn]

I heard he only wants to get some...

[stoops the eternal pimp]

he only wants some opportunities to help you lady....help him, help you

[Crucifax Autumn]

sFeoYY1qJ3w

[yermom]

it's a baby, not a paycheck

if you aren't forced to pay for this stuff when you are married to the yainch, then why are you forced when you aren't?

i'm all for taking care of your kids, but i don't get paying some mandatory percentage in cash every month that she could use for whatever.

[yermom]

You know young lady poster, I know a certain poster here who you should meet...He is a refined gentleman and knows how to treat a lady..He could make you forget your worries..

Rico Suave (http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/member.php?u=39714)

fixed.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

He's got a voice like Barry White, but he is not black like Barry White, He is white like Frank Black is

[olevetonahill]

fixed.

I outta negger Ya :D

[Crucifax Autumn]

He talks like Barry white if Barry white had been abandoned by his parents in the deep, dark woods and raised by stray hillbillies...in other words he's a sexy sumbitch!

[Crucifax Autumn]

Welcome to drunkytown!

[stoops the eternal pimp]

here is a pic of him

http://match.sina.com/imgs/18/30/98/180190/sexy%20man20080730221842_m.jpg

[Crucifax Autumn]

You coulda done better than that!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_SDFFBTQ4dAQ/SLHirWCxYKI/AAAAAAAAAMM/p-0NyhqFreA/S660/Edwards+Family+211.jpg

[Crucifax Autumn]

just kidding...

Here's a real one he took with his son:

http://www.missionscalifornia.com/stories/real_files/image003.jpg

[stoops the eternal pimp]

maybe this is it..sometimes I get his picture confused with Stoop Troup

http://www.womensfunnyvideos.com/funny-pictures/hillbillyOveralls.jpg

[Crucifax Autumn]

only problem is that guy's not drinkin' ovj...he seems to be drinking a urine sample!

[Crucifax Autumn]

And why does he look so much like a hillbilly version of:

http://redlightnaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/james_doohan_3314501.jpg

[stoops the eternal pimp]

this is him in his younger days..always the looker!

http://www.sff.net/people/llsoares/Hillbilly%20Logan.jpg

[Crucifax Autumn]

Nothing quite as attractive as a crooked goatee!

He needed one of these:

sbHU8qOy2c4

[yermom]

just kidding...

Here's a real one he took with his son:

http://b3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/00758/38/09/758219083_l.jpg

:eek:

[stoops the eternal pimp]

for a second, I was like whats the difference?

[Crucifax Autumn]

wow...really...wow! Awesome! lmao

[yermom]

that's me, but not my work :D

[Crucifax Autumn]

I'm judt impressed with how seemless the paste is...I love it!

[stoops the eternal pimp]

dang dude...I guess thats why the first time i saw you, I thought "I know Ive seen that guy before."

[Crucifax Autumn]

I had no clue that Dan Haggerty was a Sooner fan, but then again...where else would a guy that's all gay and married to a bear and hangs out with some old "daddy" while hiding from a bounty hunter be accepted?

[stoops the eternal pimp]

so....I hope she gives vet a chance...

[Crucifax Autumn]

All we are saying...is give vet a chance!

[stoops the eternal pimp]

give vet a chance to get a piece!...get some peace

[stoops the eternal pimp]

if your an animal lover he owns some dogs

http://www.city-data.com/forum/members/arguy1973-89923-albums-redneck-dogs-pic6098-hillbilly-dogs.jpg

[Crucifax Autumn]

http://www.hotchyx.com/adult-image-hosting-05/7384Grizzly-Vet.jpg

[stoops the eternal pimp]

wow

[colleyvillesooner]

That's awesome...

[StoopTroup]

http://www.hotchyx.com/adult-image-hosting-05/7384Grizzly-Vet.jpg

Last years tailgates were awesome.

[RacerX]

cue banjo music

[StoopTroup]

Uzae_SqbmDE

[StoopTroup]

fAF5VNRW7HM&NR=1

[olevetonahill]

Uzae_SqbmDE

ya beat me By this Much
http://www.videodetective.com/photos/074/003133_22.jpg

[NYC Poke]

Your probably right about that. Many of us have the opinion that if two Adults can't work together for the good of the child...neither of them are going to be very happy with what I would put them through.

I hope this Dad gets some folks on his rear.

I had a neighbor who told me his divorce in Chicago went very differently for him. When he was standing before the Judge...the Judge says..."Listen and listen good...you've been given instructions by me to pay your alimony and child support. Don't think for a second that if you decide to quit your job or not pay that I will give you a pass. I will have your *** arrested. You will be brought before me in this court and I will put you in jail until you beg me for mercy".

It's to bad the poster here can't get more support like that. The Dad shouldn't be allowed to just quit IMO, but he shouldn't be walking the streets when he owes $5000 in back support either.

Judges do not take lightly non-custodial parents who are voluntarily unemployed, or voluntarily underemployed.

Wanna know what "voluntarily" means in the context of child support?

I once read a Virginia case where a former lawyer (since disbarred) who was serving around 30 years in prison, I think for child molestation, was trying to modify his child support obligations because he was no longer earning income. The court ruled that his criminal acts were voluntary, and therefore he was voluntarily unemployed, and would not modify support.

s c needs to let baby daddy cool his heels in jail for contempt for a while, and if that doesn't smart him up, she should look into terminating his parental rights. If he's not willing to man up to the simplest of obligations, there's no reason to keep him involved in the child's life. There's a difference between a DNA provider and a father.

[tommieharris91]

Judges do not take lightly non-custodial parents who are voluntarily unemployed, or voluntarily underemployed.

Wanna know what "voluntarily" means in the context of child support?

I once read a Virginia case where a former lawyer (since disbarred) who was serving around 30 years in prison, I think for child molestation, was trying to modify his child support obligations because he was no longer earning income. The court ruled that his criminal acts were voluntary, and therefore he was voluntarily unemployed, and would not modify support.

s c needs to let baby daddy cool his heels in jail for contempt for a while, and if that doesn't smart him up, she should look into terminating his parental rights. If he's not willing to man up to the simplest of obligations, there's no reason to keep him involved in the child's life. There's a difference between a DNA provider and a father.

Ain't no need for serious posts in this thread.

[NYC Poke]

Meanie!

[StoopTroup]

What's Virginia got to do with Oklahoma anyway?

What might happen in Virginia might not happen here.

It should...but it might not.

I also know of a guy (Now Deceased) who had to pay a gal child support for a kid that the Judge wouldn't allow DNA evidence to be used in the case. There is more to this case than I can devulge or even know about. I do know the Mother was a drug abuser and was able to trap this guy into paying. Now that he's dead (suicide)...I wonder where she gets the dough?

To bad every case isn't cut and dried.

[Crucifax Autumn]

are you guys seriously being serious? Must be time for you to start drinking!

[StoopTroup]

It might be.

[stoops the eternal pimp]

vet wants to party with ya

http://homepages.wmich.edu/~p2mcdona/3_files/drunk-guy.gif

[stoops the eternal pimp]

I bet she called him today

[NYC Poke]

Why would I need to start drinking? I'm still drunk from last night.

[Crucifax Autumn]

How could she not. A true romantic like him with James Bond class and a stylish look. Besides...who can resist hot tub chickens?

[Crucifax Autumn]

Why would I need to start drinking? I'm still drunk from last night.

I suspect you aren't the only one...I feel a bit of a leftover buzz myself!

[stoops the eternal pimp]

bizznacho may get jealous and the bird might attack..other than that if this doesnt work out, he could try the octo mom

[NYC Poke]

I suspect you aren't the only one...I feel a bit of a leftover buzz myself!

I intended to have a mellow night last night. The girl I've been seeing was running a race at 8:00 this morning in Central Park, so I was on my own and thought I'd have a couple of beers and shoot a couple of games of pool in my neighborhood, Hell's Kitchen.

I went to a place in the neighborhood. I knew the bartender from around and she started hooking me up with free drinks. I started hanging out with this hot chick named Bernadette who I'd met a couple of times but never really talked to. I found out she used to be a stripper and that she was directly related to one of the Westies, the gang who used to control the rackets on the West Side (and still try to from time to time). She was smokin' hot, and I totally wanted to Hit That, and I think I probably could have, but she seemed like the kind of girl who would bite it off if you crossed her. Life involves risks, but some are not worth taking.

Around midnight or one, I got a call from a friend who was working at a bar in Harlem. A bunch of kids from Columbia were there and he wanted to hang out with someone normal, and offered to pay for my cab ride up there. Why not? So I went up there to hang with him and look at the Columbia chicks until the bar closed at 4:00. Then we sat around drinking while he did the money. I vaguely remember getting in a cab to go home. I was pretty thankful to wake up in my own bed, alone. I even managed to take my shoes off!

[stoops the eternal pimp]

sounds like a good night....not only might that girl bite it off, you might impregnate her and she'll go on a message board talking about ya

[Okla-homey]

What's Virginia got to do with Oklahoma anyway?

What might happen in Virginia might not happen here.

It should...but it might not.



Well sir, the following IS Oklahoma law: Even convicts are imputed minimum wage for child support obligation calculations. Therefore, upon release from the hoosegow, an ex-con will have a tidy child support arrearage unless he's made arrangements to pay it while locked-up. That is consistent with the case law NYCPoke cited in the sense that Okie law deems getting locked-up as baby daddy's own damn fault. srsly.

And I quite agree.

[NYC Poke]

sounds like a good night....not only might that girl bite it off, you might impregnate her and she'll go on a message board talking about ya

The latter part of that is probably a best-case scenario. One of the main Westies -- I forget which one, and I loaned out my copy of a book on the Westies or I'd look it up -- was married to a woman named Bernadette, and I'm guessing that's who she's related to. She said her relative was someone that Mickey Featherstone ratted out. I've met the Coonan brothers, sons of Jimmy Coonan, socially, but that's about as involved as I wanna get. She was hot, though, and if I'd had a couple more drinks I might lost the better part of my judgment, and I'd be fish food in the Hudson River now.

[olevetonahill]

Sounds like ya were smart in keepin yer Kid gat , put away :D

[StoopTroup]

Well sir, the following IS Oklahoma law: Even convicts are imputed minimum wage for child support obligation calculations. Therefore, upon release from the hoosegow, an ex-con will have a tidy child support arrearage unless he's made arrangements to pay it while locked-up. That is consistent with the case law NYCPoke cited in the sense that Okie law deems getting locked-up as baby daddy's own damn fault. srsly.

And I quite agree.

Good to know Homey. I didn't know that as most the ex-cons I know aren't ex's anymore...:D ;)

Do they garnish their pay as soon as they get a job on the outside or just put them right back in jail as soon as they don't pay again? :pop:

[StoopTroup]

Also...no one has brought this up yet...

There seems to be a rash of guys who suddenly find themselves served with divorce papers and judgments who think that the authorities are coming for their guns. These guys get all paranoid and kill their kids and then themselves.

One of the cases this week seemed to have the guy looking for his Ex-Wife and her new boyfriend. Upon not finding them...he evidently turned the gun on himself.

Now Mom has no kids, no ex-husband and no need for child support payments.

What a mess this guy left.

Any of you guys out there that find yourself in this situation...please don't take it out on your kids.

Please...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-04-05-washington_N.htm


Investigators believe he then returned to the area near the convenience store looking for his wife. His body was found near the store, Troyer said.

[Okla-homey]

Also...no one has brought this up yet...

There seems to be a rash of guys who suddenly find themselves served with divorce papers and judgments who think that the authorities are coming for their guns.


If they are convicted of domestic abuse, they aren't allowed guns. Thus, a slap happy daddy will lose his guns if the authorities find out.

It has to do with a federal firearms law. When I was with the Army, my battalion commander friends had to deal with soldiers who were busted for domestic abuse and who then became ineligible to carry a gun. Which is problematic and career limiting for infantrymen.

[yermom]

i'll take Not Beating Your Wife for $1000, Alex

[Frozen Sooner]

While I'm totally on board with the concept of knocking truly deadbeat dads around the block...

What purpose is served by claiming that conviction of a crime constitutes voluntary unemployment for child support purposes and not modifying the order?

If lil' Chiquita and Brad's dad was living with them then lost his high-falutin' job due to going to the pokey, they'd suffer a pretty immediate change in household finances and style. Why should this not be the case if dad doesn't happen to live at home?

Beyond that, crushing the non-custodial parent with a child support debt that there's no feasible way to stay current with incentivises dad to either never get a job once he's out or to work under the table.

I dunno. I generally side with the custodial parent in a child support deal, but I just don't see how this helps.

[Okla-homey]

While I'm totally on board with the concept of knocking truly deadbeat dads around the block...

What purpose is served by claiming that conviction of a crime constitutes voluntary unemployment for child support purposes and not modifying the order?

If lil' Chiquita and Brad's dad was living with them then lost his high-falutin' job due to going to the pokey, they'd suffer a pretty immediate change in household finances and style. Why should this not be the case if dad doesn't happen to live at home?

Beyond that, crushing the non-custodial parent with a child support debt that there's no feasible way to stay current with incentivises dad to either never get a job once he's out or to work under the table.

I dunno. I generally side with the custodial parent in a child support deal, but I just don't see how this helps.

I didn't mean to infer a guy who makes good money who goes to jail for a several years would have the same child support obligation in the klink he had on the street. What generally happens is prisoners are deemed to be earning the minimum wage, and that amount is used to calculate their child support obligation. IF that obligor bothers to ask the court to modify the original child support order that is. If he doesn't bother, it will racks up at the same rate it did before he went to jail.

[OhU1]

What purpose is served by claiming that conviction of a crime constitutes voluntary unemployment for child support purposes and not modifying the order?

If lil' Chiquita and Brad's dad was living with them then lost his high-falutin' job due to going to the pokey, they'd suffer a pretty immediate change in household finances and style. Why should this not be the case if dad doesn't happen to live at home?

Beyond that, crushing the non-custodial parent with a child support debt that there's no feasible way to stay current with incentivises dad to either never get a job once he's out or to work under the table.

There are two schools of thought on the inmate dad. One being that a person who commits a crime should not be absolved of his obligation to his children while an honest father has to pay. Also, why should the children have to "pay" for the father's criminal irresponsibility? Therefore the Oklahoma S.C. states the court may (not shall) impute income to the jail bird.

You stated the other position well.

As a practical matter how will these ex-cons pay once they are out and buried in debt? An ex-con already has two strikes against him anyway. The trend is toward NOT imputing income to convicts and reserving the support obligation until after release from prison.

I have mixed feelings about this. As a matter of principle I don't think the inmate father should be let off the hook for his obligations while he sits it out in jail and his kids age out. On the other hand the high support debt is not worth the paper it's printed on if you can't collect it. I'm also concerned about driving an ex-con back to crime if he can't make it "going straight" because half of his check is taken for support, fines, and restitution.

[NYC Poke]

While I'm totally on board with the concept of knocking truly deadbeat dads around the block...

What purpose is served by claiming that conviction of a crime constitutes voluntary unemployment for child support purposes and not modifying the order?

If lil' Chiquita and Brad's dad was living with them then lost his high-falutin' job due to going to the pokey, they'd suffer a pretty immediate change in household finances and style. Why should this not be the case if dad doesn't happen to live at home?

Beyond that, crushing the non-custodial parent with a child support debt that there's no feasible way to stay current with incentivises dad to either never get a job once he's out or to work under the table.

I dunno. I generally side with the custodial parent in a child support deal, but I just don't see how this helps.


Others have done a pretty good job describing this, but I thought I'd take another crack at it.

Let's say the noncustodial parent has a fancy job at a fancy bank and pulls in $1M/year. After the divorce, she (in law school, you'll learn that all hypos use gender pronouns in nontraditional ways) starts feeling resentful because she feels that all she is for the child is nothing but a paycheck for her ex-spouse.

So she starts thinking, "Why should I keep busting my vagina working 80 hours a week as a banker when all my money ends up going to a child I never get to see?" So she quits her job as a banker and instead sells handmade soaps at Lilith Fair for $30k/year.

Courts are going to find that she is voluntarily underemployed, that she's attempted to avoid her support obligations by a job change, and she will be deemed to still have a $1M/year income for the purpose of determining her support obligations. Sure, she could have done the soap thing during her marriage and the kid would be stuck with her measly income and smelling of sage and patchouli, but the divorce changes things.

If this concept is to have any teeth, it needs to be applied consistently. If courts start allowing exceptions, it will get abused left and right. And it has long been part of our jurisprudence that committing a crime is a voluntary act. Therefore, someone who is unemployed because they've committed a crime and is in prison is voluntarily unemployed or underemployed. As a practical matter, the kid won't get any more money if the imprisoned parent doesn't have it. It's more a matter of applying the jurispurdence consistently.

[Frozen Sooner]

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds. ;)