Capel vs. Sampson -- A March Comparison

[Octavian]

Sampson's Sooners in NCAAs:

1995:
Manhattan College - L

1996:
Temple - L

1997:
Stanford - L

1998:
Indiana - L

1999:
Arizona - W
UNC-Charlotte - W
Michigan St. - L

2000:
Winthrop - W
Purdue - L

2001:
Indiana St. - L



Capel's Sooners in NCAAs

2008:
St. Joe's - W
Louisville - L

2009:
Morgan St. - W
Michigan - W
Syracuse - W
North Carolina - L


It took Sampson 8 NCAA appearances in 8 years to finally win his fourth game in the tournament.


It's taken Jeff 2 NCAA appearances in 3 years to match that total of 4 wins.



Not only has Capel resurrected us up from the ash-pile that Kelvin left us with, he's proven not to be a born-loser in March.



Two and a half years ago, no one would've been taken seriously had we all predicted a 30-win season and Elite 8 appearance for 2009. Great hire and great job.


After suffering through a decade of losses to the Manhattans and Wisconsin-Milwaukees of the basketball world, it's nice to show up when it counts.


Thanks for a great year, Coach -- it was fun. And here's to the future -- look forward to it.

[oumartin]

You just insulted the great Calvin Simpson? :eek:


Great post btw

[Leroy Lizard]

Sorry, but I think OU is mostly Blake Griffin. How did we do when he was out? Capel is overrated.

[Socrefbek]

Excellent post. I agree wholeheartedly.

The Sooners may even do better the year after next when this next incoming recruiting class gets established.

Long Live Coach Capel!

[Sooner04]

Sorry, but I think OU is mostly Blake Griffin. How did we do when he was out? Capel is overrated.
Just a heads up, LL. You appear to be lost.

Here you go: http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2

[yermom]

it's not quite fair to cut off Sampson before the Final Four and Elight Eight years

but yeah, hopefully the comparative trend continues

[jkjsooner]

You can argue that Capel was fortunate to have such a great in-state player. It's like how Tubbs hit the lottery with Tisdale.

The fact is, if history is a good indicator, Sampson would have either run Griffin off or at best not used him to his potential. (Sampson's insistence that his forwards make hard fouls under the basket would have had Griffin in foul trouble in every single game.)

We did struggle today but I'll tell you I don't miss the 8 or so minute scoreless stretches we had almost every game in the Sampson years. Griffin or not, our offensive schemes are light years ahead of anything Sampson ever gave us.

[Eielson]

Sorry, but I think OU is mostly Blake Griffin. How did we do when he was out? Capel is overrated.

Without our best player, we nearly beat two NCAA tournament teams. He hasn't even gotten his group of players in here yet. The two people he brought in on his own were our two best players. Maybe he lucked out on Blake, but he also "lucked out" on Willie, and likely TMG and/or Gallon.

[FroggyStyle22]

I wonder what Capel would have done with Hollis Price et al. That team coached by Capel would have been a blast to watch.

[Octavian]

it's not quite fair to cut off Sampson before the Final Four and Elight Eight years


hey, yermom -- hope all's well, man.


That's a valid point but what I was saying was -- at OU, you shouldn't have to have the player of the decade to beat Manhattan, Indiana St., or Milwaukee-Wisconsin.


Moreover, Sampson's abrasive personality prevented him from obtaining --or retaining-- most of the region's top-tier talent. Not so with Jeff Capel -- he's a players' coach. He's a cool guy, the kids like him, and he's more than earning his stripes out on the recruiting trail -- and in basketball, that's half of it.


In any event, the post of the OP was --while taking a little jab at Calvin --to say: under Capel, OU has achieved things in a short amount of time that no one thought possible when he was hired and he's won as many tourney games in 2 appearances as Sampson did in his first 7 years.


We've got a winner in this guy -- it was a great year and he's a very marketable new brand that could really grow into something cool if we can keep him for awhile. So far, he's looking like everything I always hoped Kelvin would become.

[yermom]

i don't really know, if Simpson was still here, we would have had an INSANE team this year, and the last few as well

assuming they didn't all transfer ;)

[Eielson]

I wonder what Capel would have done with Hollis Price et al. That team coached by Capel would have been a blast to watch.

They were pretty fun to watch with Sampson.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

give me a break on the blake comments. ryan minor was every bit of the college player that blake has been, prolly even moreso since he could go inside/out. heck, adding john ontjes alone would have drug this year's team to the championship game.

[yermom]

how about Scottie Reynolds? Damion James? :mad:

i'm still bitter ;)

but this season was lots of fun. one bad game from the Final Four isn't that much to gripe about.

[RADsooner]

that "game" had more to do with who we played as much as how we played.

[FroggyStyle22]

They were pretty fun to watch with Sampson.

In my recollection they were fun to watch because we played great defense, stagnated on offense for 39 minutes, and then had Hollis or Quannas bail us out in the final minute.

How many oops did you see in Sampson's entire time here? I bet it was less than the number we saw this year alone. Capel's style is much more fun to watch and no less successful.

[the_ouskull]

I could literally crawl up in the *sshole of this post like Richard Gere's gerbil, but I'm trying real hard to be the shepard right now. I'm going to ignore the comparative logical fallacies and just say, it's really easy to say that apples are red and oranges are orange. It's a lot harder to peel and eat them. They might taste different, and leave different after-tastes, but they're both delicious.

The long version goes a little more like this:

Kelvin has four coach-of-the-year honors; two national, two conference. He's won four conference championships; three tournament, and one regular season. He's made two Elite Eights and a Final Four. He took a team that played a total of one NCAA game the previous four seasons and never won more than 20 games in a season during that stretch, and he won 23 that first season, after inheriting a team that wasn't terribly, well, good...

They lost two of their top four scorers from the previous season, including their leading scorer (Webster) and their best post (Conley) and they made The Dance for the first time since Billy Tubbs' loss to UNC in 1990.

He did this with a team that had almost no "name" talent; Ryan Minor being the closest thing we had to a big time recruit - if such things can come from Hammond, Oklahoma.

The next season, he brought in a couple of big(ger) names, in Nate Errdman, a former McDonald's AA who followed Kelvin from Washington State, and Bobby Jo Evans, who would have done wonders for Kelvin, and his postseason success, had he stayed healthy. As it stands, Kelvin had to do what he did with no running game... something that is never a formula for tournament success. However, in 1999, with Ryan Humphrey and Eddie Najera, we WERE able to have some success in the postseason, albeit limited.

Kelvin took what he was given, and he did what he was able with it. He won with rosters that had limited (some would say VERY limited) talent and primarily role players. Saying that his rosters didn't "win when it counted" is an argument that could be made, yes. But implying that he wasn't a good coach, simply because of the composition of his rosters is hardly fair. It took him a number of years to build a battered, bruised, and bloody program into a program that COULD win; that could get the players necessary to win in the post season. He turned OU into a team that could beat anybody on any given night in his first season. By the time he had a team full of his own players, he was in the 2000-2003 stretch; a stretch that many of you seem to act as if he wasn't a part of...

Don't ascribe your own shortcomings to those of Kelvin. He was a lot of things, but a sh*tty coach was not EVER one of them. To think otherwise is to allow your simple mind to get in the way of simple logic.

the_ouskull

[Frozen Sooner]

I'm pretty sure Tatonkaball wasn't a McD's AA. Otherwise, yeah.

[badger]

Capel has had a few mishaps along the way - no being able to keep KS's recruits was one of them upon his first coming to OU. Not being able to get to the NCAA that first year was another... but after that initial season of frustrating basketball to watch, at least Capel made it enduring by getting technicals when the team didn't show up to play that season :D

Ever since that first season, things have been quite wonderful. This is a type of basketball I can get into more than whatever I was watching before... I will call that form "ground and pound" for multiple reason ;)

Capel coaching a fast paced uptempo style of basketball that suits today's game well... and he seems intent to follow NCAA rules :D

So anyways, go Capelball. I look forward to many more successful seasons, even if I was hopeful for a Final Four this year.

[kevpks]

I was always a huge Sampson fan. Those years from 1998 to errr too long were a great era of OU basketball. We went toe to toe with some great teams from the Big XII and around the country. Kelvin had a respectable number of final four and elite 8 appearances. We were a little light on Sweet 16 appearances. We got run out of the tournament early by less talented teams too often. Why? I have no clue. When it comes to basketball I am good at watching it and cheering for it.

As far as Capel goes I think he can take us to another level. He is a better recruiter than Sampson. When have we ever had two McDonald's AA in the same class? Watching us play UNC yesterday it was clear that we are not yet one of the blue bloods of college basketball, but I think under Capel we will be. He will continue to bring in elite NBA level talent and coach them up. I think we have a lot of Elite 8 and Final Four appearances in our future and I wouldn't be surprised if we cut down the nets at the end within three or four years.

[SteelClip49]

Blah blah blah on Sampson. He lost all credibilty after that pathetic loss to an average Indiana in the Final Four. Hell, win that game and it would either be Kansas or Maryland for the national title....2 teams OU beat that season in Norman.....convincingly.

Also, I seem to remember the highest ranking OU ever achieved under Sampson was #3. Capel had OU #2 for a while this season. Capel is also younger and will achieve a lot of success as time goes on.

[sooneron]

Blah blah blah on Sampson. He lost all credibilty after that pathetic loss to an average Indiana in the Final Four. Hell, win that game and it would either be Kansas or Maryland for the national title....2 teams OU beat that season in Norman.....convincingly.

And here is where you lose some credibility- losing to an average Indiana team in the Final Four? If a team has made it to the Final Four, they are clicking along somehow. They weren't the best FF team ever, but they got there somehow.
Then you go on to point out how OU beat two other FF teams that season. Yeah, OK, I'll take some more contradiction for 500, Alex. Face it, sometimes in a game (like yesterday's) shots don't go down for your team. I remember a lot of that against IU. I also remember Aaron McGhee missing some key FTs in that game (which he never did).




Also, I seem to remember the highest ranking OU ever achieved under Sampson was #3. Capel had OU #2 for a while this season. Capel is also younger and will achieve a lot of success as time goes on.

It doesn't matter what you're ranked for a couple of weeks, just what you are when the dust settles. I see plenty of upside with Capel, but to say that KS sucked or lost cred when he supplied OU fans with a very good run, is suspect on your part. I'm willing to bet that most on here would also say that KS would have gotten at least another Elite 8 in 99 if Najera doesn't collide with whatshisname from Mich St.
Both coaches inherited issues. I know that Capel did, but I think KS inherited worse. We had the facilites etc that KS helped to build with his team's successes when Jeff was hired.
I think a lot of people here still harbor some feeling that KS deserted us. If you think that his leaving for IU was all his idea, then you don't know how the world works. He was strongly encouraged to seek employment elsewhere.

[Sooner04]

They lost two of their top four scorers from the previous season, including their leading scorer (Webster) and their best post (Conley) and they made The Dance for the first time since Billy Tubbs' loss to UNC in 1990.
You left out our 4-seed in '92 when we lost to SW Louisiana after Sallier shredded his knee in Kansas City.

Damon "Slim" Patterson from Kalamazoooooooooooooo, Michigan!

[sooneron]

Wow, Sallier. Thank you for taking me back to somewhere that had been burned from memory by booze.

[badger]

With the bball history knowledge around here, perhaps we should be comparing Capel to Billy Ball instead of KS.

So... any takers?

[cheezyq]

Sorry, but I think OU is mostly Blake Griffin. How did we do when he was out? Capel is overrated.

Um...unless I'm mistaken, part of college coaching is bringing quality players to your school. In AT LEAST that, he's been a fantastic coach.

[Sooner04]

And here is where you lose some credibility- losing to an average Indiana team in the Final Four? If a team has made it to the Final Four, they are clicking along somehow. They weren't the best FF team ever, but they got there somehow.
Then you go on to point out how OU beat two other FF teams that season. Yeah, OK, I'll take some more contradiction for 500, Alex. Face it, sometimes in a game (like yesterday's) shots don't go down for your team. I remember a lot of that against IU. I also remember Aaron McGhee missing some key FTs in that game (which he never did).
I don't remember Ace missing the free throws. I remember Selvy missing the front end of a one-and-one with the game tied at 60. When I close my eyes for the last time in my life I'll probably still see Selvy missing that free throw.

Also, Indiana made every three-pointer they took in the second half. Jeffries banked one in. It just wasn't our day. Quannas tearing up his ankle in practice a day or two prior jacked with everything we did. Ace fouled out with a few minutes to go.

BTW - We beat Kansas in KC that year, not Norman.

[NormanPride]

Sampson's players would have played harder, but they also wouldn't have been able to score. Oddly enough, we would have done better against UNC I think, but gotten blasted by Syracuse.

[oumartin]

u Calvin supporters make me chuckle.

[OUmillenium]

Fun thread. I appreciate Calvin for a lot of the good things he did but cannot get over the massive fail that his teams were known for in the Big Dance + the phone calls + the ugly offense.

Capel v. Tubbs? I love them both. Big time recruits and smoother basketball. Thank you God.

[the_ouskull]

I was always a huge Sampson fan. Those years from 1998 to errr too long were a great era of OU basketball. We went toe to toe with some great teams from the Big XII and around the country. Kelvin had a respectable number of final four and elite 8 appearances. We were a little light on Sweet 16 appearances. We got run out of the tournament early by less talented teams too often. Why? I have no clue. When it comes to basketball I am good at watching it and cheering for it.

As far as Capel goes I think he can take us to another level. He is a better recruiter than Sampson. When have we ever had two McDonald's AA in the same class? Watching us play UNC yesterday it was clear that we are not yet one of the blue bloods of college basketball, but I think under Capel we will be. He will continue to bring in elite NBA level talent and coach them up. I think we have a lot of Elite 8 and Final Four appearances in our future and I wouldn't be surprised if we cut down the nets at the end within three or four years.

Good post, Muffy, but I'm not sure I agree with the cutting down the nets thing. Unless a team IS one of the aforementioned blue bloods, it's pretty hard to break into that party. I'm always going to want more than a good tournament run, but if we're an Sweet Sixteenish team every year, that's not a bad program either...

the_ouskull

[Sooner04]

If Florida, Arizona and Connecticut can win it all then so can we.

It comes down to recruiting year after year to put you in position to make a run. It starts with one superstar and the multiplies. Arizona had Sean Elliott, Connecticut had Tate George and Donyell Marshall. Florida had Mike Miller. I think you know who the ringleader of our ascent has been.

Blake leads to Willie. Now you bring in two more Burger Boys in Gallon and Mason-Griffin. Sign another one or two the next year and look out.

[Mjcpr]

Is it Austin Johnson?

[the_ouskull]

I was going to let all of the Capel supporters (of which I am numbered, don't get me wrong... I'm simply not a Kelvin basher, and I'm confused why people seem to think you have to be both) hang themselves before I reminded them that Kelvin brought in Taylor, and Taylor brought in Blake. Yes, Capel's the coach when he gets here, and maybe he DOESN'T come if Kelvin's still here... but maybe he does.

Seeing as part of Blake's decision to attend OU was the opportunity to play with his big brother, I'm fairly sure he would have, but I'm not positive, and, therefore, won't list it as gospel, as many uninformed masses will do for the contrary position.

Like you can't already hear it:

- Blake ONLY came here 'cause of Capel!
- Blake wouldn't want to play for a coach like Kelvin!
- etc, etc, etc..

I'm happy that Capel is the Sooner coach. VERY happy, in fact. I'm also happy that Blake decided to become a Sooner, regardless of the reasons behind his decision. Let's just say this: If he stays another season now that Taylor's gone, I'll be a lot more inclined to believe that he came here because of Capel and not Taylor. That's all.

As for Nate E. and his McDonald's AA status, I've just gotten used to saying it over the years 'cause I remembered seeing something to that effect in the media guide for his first season. However, since I can't find any record of it, on either side, I'll rescind my comment.

-----

And, as for something else said... an "average" Final Four team is better than at least 90% of the teams in college basketball at the right time. Also, if you are only looking back at the score of that Indiana game, you don't remember it the way that I do. We were a very, very physical team, (not dirty, mind you) and had been allowed to play that way through the first four rounds of the tournament. Then, in the freakin' Final Four, the officials decided to tighten things up. Indiana was a finesse (read: p*ssy) team, so the changes didn't have an effect on their play. It did, however, KILL us.

Unable to play hard-nosed, Kelvin-style defense without being whistled kept our guards from protecting the arc, allowed Indiana - already a great outside shooting team, to go 8-13 from the arc. In addition, Selvy missing the front end of a 1-1 that would have given us the lead with 2:59 to play didn't help... but as a team, we went 14-18 from the line. Free throws were a priority for Kelvin, and it was a rare miss that beat a Kelvin-coached team.

Yesterday, our boys went 10-16. Against Indiana in 2002, they went 14-18. That's 78% vs. 62%.

One thing that Kelvin's players had that Capel don't, or at least didn't recently, was discipline. If anybody, even Hollis, was going 0-5 (Crocker), 0-7 (Willie, before hitting two in garbage time) from the arc, Kelvin would have pulled them, chewed a hole out of their *ss, telling them to start going to the hole more or start running the offense... Capel never did that, at least not that I saw, so our guards kept shooting their sh*tty-*ssed threeballs, shooting us right out of the game because they refused to believe that the previous game was, in fact, the exception, and not the rule.

Also, can you imagine a Kelvin Sampson guard, even the White Glove himself, Johnny O, playing defense as "well" as A.J. did yesterday on Lawson...? I can't. Ole!

No matter how great a player you have on a team, if everybody else refuses to do what they HAVE to do to win, as opposed to what they WANT to do to win, then you'll lose... and no amount of quality coaching and no number of quality players can fix that.

So, I guess, for those of you like oumartin, it's a matter of what you prefer... a coach who gets more out of less talent, or less out of more talent. Until one of them wins a ring, that's what we've got to go on.. unless you want to just say (read: admit) that Kelvin's made it further in the tournament than Capel - which he has...

...but I'm giving you the out of NOT saying since it completely damages your argument against Kelvin by being an objective measurement...

Sleep well, haters...

the_ouskull

[the_ouskull]

Is it Austin Johnson?

Austin Johnson is only the answer if the question is, "Who is not the answer?"

the_ouskull

[Sooner04]

FYI: scuttlebutt was Taylor transferring after the 2006 season if not for the regime change. I've heard it from way too many people to suggest it's just a shot in the dark.

[TopDawg]

I was talking about this in email to Sooner04 earlier today. I don't know if he really agrees with the assessment, but a few of you have touched on it here as well, so I'll throw it out there.

So far...and that's the important part...the main difference that I've seen between Kelvin and Capel's teams are that Kelvin's teams would win games they shouldn't have won, and lose games they shouldn't have lost, while Capel's teams tend not to win games they shouldn't win and not to lose games they shouldn't lose. I don't think one is inherently better than the other, and given time, Capel might start winning those games he shouldn't win.

But what it looks like to me is that Capel is more likely, by way of his recruiting abilities, to drastically shrink the number of games we shouldn't win. If he continues to bring in top-notch talent at the rate he's done so far, we should be favored to win most of our games and as long as he can keep that trend up, it'll be blue skies for the Sooners.

Now regarding their preferred coaching style, Capel's teams are more fun to watch than Kelvin's, but for every 8-minute scoring drought we had under Kelvin, we'd put our opponent through a 10-minute scoring drought. Boring or not, Kelvin won a lot of games and put us back on the map after we disappeared in the early 90's. Capel has done the same in less time but with arguably better circumstances. I don't really care how he keeps us on the map, as long as it's not with too many phone calls.

[Sooner04]

In 1997, Kansas came to town. They brought with them Paul Pierce, Raef LaFrentz, Jerod Haase and Scot Pollard. We trotted out a lineup that featured Nate Erdmann, Corey Brewer, Hootie Wiley and Lou Moore.

We had the ball for the final possession, and we trailed 70-68. As we came up the floor the only thought bouncing around my head was, "how in the hell are we even in this game?"

I never forgot that feeling. Kelvin, for better or worse, kept us in games we had absolutely no business belonging in. His style allowed other teams to stay with us, but he played far superior teams to the limit. Capel's not there yet. If we ever play again with that tenacity........

[TopDawg]

That was one thing that bothered me yesterday. It seemed like at several different points in the game, UNC just wanted it more. They went after loose balls that were going out of bounds, while we'd just let it go. Their perimeter guys would battle for rebounds, while ours would stand still. When they fouled, they fouled. When we fouled, we tapped.

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

They lost two of their top four scorers from the previous season, including their leading scorer (Webster) and their best post (Conley) and they made The Dance for the first time since Billy Tubbs' loss to UNC in 1990.

He did this with a team that had almost no "name" talent; Ryan Minor being the closest thing we had to a big time recruit - if such things can come from Hammond, Oklahoma.

conley was our "best post"? i'll have to assume that this is because webster played on the perimeter his senior year (a mistake), because he was so crazy good in the post it wasn't even funny. by then tubbs had cashed it in and it wouldn't have mattered if we had landed othella harrington or micheal jordan nothing was going to get those guys to put in more effort.

as for minor, he was offered by pokey state as well as others so while he may not have been as heralded as shon alexander, he was close.

[picasso]

give me a break on the blake comments. ryan minor was every bit of the college player that blake has been, prolly even moreso since he could go inside/out. heck, adding john ontjes alone would have drug this year's team to the championship game.

john ontjes spek!

this team was a true point guard away from beating anyone in the field.

Also, I love Capel but a few things puzzle me. His being a guard and all, I could not for the life of me figure out why our guards would not move without the ball. I'm talking especially when the ball was in the block. you move and get open for a kickout. this is high school stuff.:confused:
heck, I moved like crazy because I wanted the ball back!

[TopDawg]

His being a guard and all, I could not for the life of me figure out why our guards would not move without the ball.

...or move with the ball. We went through a spurt where we got some easy baskets will Willie and Tony getting into the lane and dishing, but then we never saw it again.

[oumartin]

Don' t leave the program in shambles Calvin Simpson and maybe you won't be loathed by many.. How about manning up and admitting you broke the rules instead of acting like the victim. How about talking to recruits and have them honor the LOI...

How about not pulling the same **** once you take over another program.

When Capel leaves I will follow him and root for him.. Calvin could jump off a cliff and I won't shed a tear.

[the_ouskull]

I could say the same for you... unless tears of joy count. What you bring to this board and the stuff that comes out of my *ss tend to bear a close resemblance to one another, the primary difference being that sometimes what comes out of my *ss has the good sense to run.

I, and, in fact, most, of the posters on this board have forgotten more about basketball than you'll ever learn, because closed minds tend not to retain much useful information. I haven't heard anything resembling sense from you to this point. If you ever care to (try to) make an argument against Kelvin that has a bit more backing than "Calvin Simpson sux," then maybe I'll hear it, and H*ll, even consider it, before I rip it a new *sshole, but I doubt it. You've been given an entire thread full of factual and statistical comparison, plus opinions from people a ton smarter, or at least smarter when it comes to basketball since you're probably the kind of person who measures intelligence by income, and the best response that you could dig back with was, "Don't leave the program in shambles," when he was asked to leave, and the recruits were allowed out of their LOI's by hands other than Kelvin's, but they wanted to play for HIM, you pretty much don't have a pot to p*ss in or a window to throw it out of, argument-wise... but keep repeating the same one until you come up with a new one. That's what smart people do...

In the interim, a quick definition: Shambles - the program when Kelvin inherited it. Not shambles - the program when Capel inherited it. Grow up, Peter Pan. Count Chocula.

You just made the list, pal.

Sin,

http://www.davejenkins.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/francis.jpg

the_ouskull

[Jacie]

With the bball history knowledge around here, perhaps we should be comparing Capel to Billy Ball instead of KS.

So... any takers?

Uh, how about Dave Bliss?

[oumartin]

color me scared goofball(skull)

[the_ouskull]

color me scared goofball(skull)

That's roughly the response I expected from you. Congrats. I guess when expectations are lower, they're easier to be met.

I'll await your logical, well-thought-out argument with bated breath. Chances are, I will also turn blue. So be it. It's better than yellow.

the_ouskull

[Lott's Bandana]

Uh, how about Dave Bliss' Sportcoat?

<retching>

This thread has been interesting, notwithstanding the lugies being thrown around.

I think the next two years will truly show what kind of coach JC really is. He will have to adapt the style of play to spread the wealth around, instead of having the Transformer in the middle to vacuum every rebound possible.

WW will either have leadership skills or he won't. Our McDonalds AA's will have to mesh like fries and a chocolate shake.

Kansas will be darn scary next year and we play them in the Phog.

I want us to be scary too...for a long time.

Thinking about season tix next year...one thing I never considered under Kelvin's reign. (loved the success but the game was excruciating to watch)

[the_ouskull]

(Not slamming the last poster in any way, please don't take it as such... they just reminded me of something I forgot to add.)

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that most of the people who found Kelvin's style of basketball "difficult to watch" were either allergic to winning (sorry) or have never coached the game themselves. When the team with "Sooners" on their jersey is ahead at the end of the game, then it was an easy game to watch, regardless of the final score. I'd LOVE to see our basketball team beat somebody 2-0.

And for those of you that go to games and didn't like Kelvinball, a quick question: Do you remain standing after tipoff until the opposing team scores a basket? Just checking...

the_ouskull

[the_ouskull]

Also, while I'm thinking about it, for those of you that didn't know Kelvin very well, or for those of you that don't like seeing him bashed about... or just don't like some of his more prominent bashers, like Francis from earlier in this thread...

Here's a bit more detail on the situation...

http://www.soonerfans.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2565160#post2565160

the_ouskull

[Lott's Bandana]

(Not slamming the last poster in any way, please don't take it as such... they just reminded me of something I forgot to add.)

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that most of the people who found Kelvin's style of basketball "difficult to watch" were either allergic to winning (sorry) or have never coached the game themselves. When the team with "Sooners" on their jersey is ahead at the end of the game, then it was an easy game to watch, regardless of the final score. I'd LOVE to see our basketball team beat somebody 2-0.

And for those of you that go to games and didn't like Kelvinball, a quick question: Do you remain standing after tipoff until the opposing team scores a basket? Just checking...

the_ouskull

No worries.

I had a big rant about your second question until I read it again. It confoozed me and still does.

I didn't like "Kelvinball". I did like winning.

I don't like cutting out my ingrown toenail. I do like it when it is gone.

Now that "my toe has been chopped off" I am much happier.

[soonerfan28]

The way that Kelvin left OU was pretty screwed up. When your leaving makes us lose 2 damn good players and then we get hit by the NCAA because of what you did it just leaves a bad taste in everybodys mouth. KS has shown by his actions he cares only for himself. I'm glad that he helped OU win the games that he did, but I'm glad he's gone. :mad:

Just my 2 cents.

[the_ouskull]

28, I don't disagree. What I have a problem with is the complete idiocy, in regards to basketball knowledge, of the people that are saying that he can't coach; that he's not a capable coach, etc... Call it my own personal crusade against dumb.


Your second question... confoozed me...

Basically, the main comparison that the uninitiated make between Kelvin and Capel is offense v. defense, and most of those people that make said comparisons say that they prefer Capel's (allegedly) more up-tempo style of offensive basketball. So, I was just asking if those same people are numbered amongst those who remain standing at the games until the opposing team scores their first basket. It's a correlation between defense and subconscious hypocrisy, basically. Kind of a d*ck move on my part, honestly, but (at least in my warped mind) a good point nonetheless.

He "left" OU, yes, but if he hadn't "left" OU, he'd have been asked to leave OU, which would have - long term - hurt both he and OU more than it did. He didn't tell those recruits to back out of their commits, though... And, his leaving HELPED OU with regards to the NCAA punishments, so to say that he was ONLY thinking of himself in any of this isn't entirely accurate either...

But, I don't think that anybody completely understands me in any of this. I am not defending his actions, or his decisions, either at OU, or upon his departure. I am defending his ability to coach the game of basketball, and I am defending the things that he accomplished while the head coach at the University of Oklahoma. (That other thread that I linked is the whole story behind my motives and motivation for everything K.S.)

I am completely happy that Jeff Capel is our head basketball coach, and I'm very happy with what he has accomplished to this point, all things considered. I'm not a "he did it with someone else's players" kinda guy, first off, nor will I be with Capel... In fact, it's the players he was left with that have frustrated me the most. (Johnson, Crocker, and last year, Longar...) I think that, once Capel has had two or three more years to get "his style of players," into the program, we're going to get a much better idea of the things of which he is capable as a coach.

But, when people are blaming Kelvin for things over which he didn't have any control, and showing off how proud they are of their ignorance by saying things like, "he was not a good coach," etc... Then yeah, that's what sets me off a bit. At the end, Billy Tubbs, who I also enjoyed a great deal as a coach, dropped this program's cell phone into the toilet, and Kelvin was not only able to pluck it out of the bowl, but he also got it working again. I respect that. (and yes, the irony of using a cell phone metaphor to refer to Kelvin is not only not lost on me, but it was intentional; enjoy it, haters) Capel, as good as he's been so far (although not without errors, people, don't kid yourselves) and as good as he has the potential to become, did not have to deal with anything even close to what Kelvin did when he first got here.

I, personally, don't LIKE comparing the two.. but it's mainly because I like Capel - I am looking forward to watching him grow as a coach, and watching our program grow under his leadership - and comparing the two isn't going to work out as favorably for Capel as many of his fans who double as K.S. bashers would like to convince themselves it will. They are two very different coaches, and they are (were) both very effective. I don't know why that's not enough... but I'll keep making the K.S. bashers (the ones that do it for the wrong reasons: ignorance, bitterness, etc..) look like what they act like...

http://pandadan.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/idiot-41423.jpg

the_ouskull