Good Article Trying To Refute the SEC Speed Myth

[noobalicious]

Found a good article trying to offer up some statistics and theory as to why the SEC Speed myth is irrelevant and untrue over at Crimson and Cream Machine (http://www.crimsonandcreammachine.com). Here's the link to the story: click here (http://www.crimsonandcreammachine.com/2009/3/12/794513/the-sec-speed-myth-debunke).

I would tend to agree. I also dislike when everyone suggests that the Big 10 is all about power. Some of the fastest players going to the NFL this year are from the Big 10! How about that receiver from Penn State?

I thought it was pretty funny that Pat White outran Knowshon Moreno at the combine.

[Collier11]

why, Pat White is a stud? It shouldnt surprise anyone that he is really fast

[itsok]

I think our loss to UF in the MNC game was due to the great job their secondary did...more than speed i saw killer instinct attitude, simple as that.

[The_Red_Patriot]

I think our loss to UF in the MNC game was due to the great job their secondary did...more than speed i saw killer instinct attitude, simple as that.

I agree....that and our ability to forget the type of football on offense we played all year....which is what got us there.

[NormanPride]

Well, losing Murray had a lot to do with it. Without him our identity in the running game shifted, and we couldn't be NEARLY as multiple as we needed to be.

[TXBOOMER]

I agree with you guys but those fuggerz were fast.

[Leroy Lizard]

You measured their speed?

Again, the team that wins always looks faster. Some were even saying that Utah looked faster than Alabama. It's a total illusion.

[noobalicious]

I think the teams that get the best recruits have the best speed. Not a certain corner of the United States or a particular conference. Just my opinion...

[Collier11]

BS! You have 10 diff people telling you diff guys are the best recruits...it all comes down to player development

[OhU1]

Human beings are not faster or slower because of their geographic location. Nebraska is not a slow team because it is too cold to run fast. Do people in the south run faster? Why? Because it's hot? SEC teams have a higher percentage of black athletes and it isn't cool or politically correct to suggest that black guys in general run faster than white dudes in general. So the unconscious code word is to say that SEC teams are "fast". Or to say "Barry Switzer (or some other coach) recruited "speed" (or "athletes")". ect.

Listen to the commentary in any college football broadcast. When a black athlete makes a great play the comment is often a patronizingly gushing "you can't teach that" by the white yuppie behind the mic. Or a variation on that theme is "he has great instincts" (like an animal I suppose). To this day I have NEVER heard those particular type comments made after a white athlete has made a great play. The praise is typically: "he worked and practiced hard" "studied film", "He's disciplined", "a smart player" "a coach's son". Don't believe me? Pay attention to the words and the theme of praise used by the broadcasters the next time you see an amazing play and note when they use those types of terms and who the terms are applied to.

This crap about the SEC being "fast" is just politically correct code talk IMO. Or am I full of crap? Is there something about being in the south that makes you run faster than someone in the north?

[Leroy Lizard]

I think you're right, but I am not sure which group is patronized more.

[OUTrumpet]

Well, losing Murray had a lot to do with it. Without him our identity in the running game shifted, and we couldn't be NEARLY as multiple as we needed to be.

Yeah, we weren't as varied as we normally are, but if you would have told me that Chris Brown would have averaged 5.5 ypc before the game started, then I would have said that we would have won.

I liked the comment about the Utah Ute not being caught from behind by the SEC speed though.

[starclassic tama]

OhU1 is right even though it might not be politically correct. i was so mad when fisher deberry got in so much trouble for what he said about recruiting the black athlete. look at the speed positions in football in the NCAA and NFL. 99% of those players are black. that doesn't mean that all black people are fast or no white people are fast, but those are just the stats.

[Collier11]

Human beings are not faster or slower because of their geographic location. Nebraska is not a slow team because it is too cold to run fast. Do people in the south run faster? Why? Because it's hot? SEC teams have a higher percentage of black athletes and it isn't cool or politically correct to suggest that black guys in general run faster than white dudes in general. So the unconscious code word is to say that SEC teams are "fast". Or to say "Barry Switzer (or some other coach) recruited "speed" (or "athletes")". ect.

Listen to the commentary in any college football broadcast. When a black athlete makes a great play the comment is often a patronizingly gushing "you can't teach that" by the white yuppie behind the mic. Or a variation on that theme is "he has great instincts" (like an animal I suppose). To this day I have NEVER heard those particular type comments made after a white athlete has made a great play. The praise is typically: "he worked and practiced hard" "studied film", "He's disciplined", "a smart player" "a coach's son". Don't believe me? Pay attention to the words and the theme of praise used by the broadcasters the next time you see an amazing play and note when they use those types of terms and who the terms are applied to.

This crap about the SEC being "fast" is just politically correct code talk IMO. Or am I full of crap? Is there something about being in the south that makes you run faster than someone in the north?

Theres your answer

[soonermix]

This crap about the SEC being "fast" is just politically correct code talk IMO. Or am I full of crap? Is there something about being in the south that makes you run faster than someone in the north?

i wouldn't say full of crap but i think you are looking too much into this. i don't think it is code talk for the difference between white and black.

i will however certainly look into this next year and see if there is a pattern.

and the speed myth... there is an obvious reason... in the south the stop watches don't freeze up so the times are faster.

[OUDoc]

LSU fans aren't considered abnormal in the SEC. What SEC fans think is often outside of reality.

[gatorpower]

It's practically impossible to 'resolve' these types of conference debates without understanding the terminologies. The author of the article (dishingoutdimes) does a poor job at representing what SEC folks mean when they say 'SEC Speed'. Admittedly, it's a poor choice of words. Proponents are not talking about a particular conference (SEC), but rather, a geographical region that is loosely defined by the boundaries associated with a single conference (SEC). Of course, there are other conferences that share this region (ACC, Big East, Conference USA), but all of them either range well outside of the Southeastern United States or do a bad job of representing the entire region, which is why they say 'SEC Speed' and not 'ACC Speed'. Schools in the SEC do not have a better strength-and-conditioning program. They do not teach better speed drills. You do not knock a tenth-of-a-second off your 40-time by wearing a particular SEC jersey.

If you question an SEC fan long enough, they'll eventually concede that they are talking about a high school recruiting region. It spans about 12 states; Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia. These states are the primary recruting grounds for schools in the SEC. It's basically a cultural and geographical region that shares many common characteristics. One of these is their obsessive preoccupation with the game of football.

It's popular for much of the same reasons soccer is popular in developing nations: all you need is a ball, a field, your friends and not a lot of money (most of the people living here are poor). The South is mostly rural, so you have almost unlimited space for fields. The South is also warm and sunny, with mild winters, so you can play it year round. It also has a guaranteed way to make millions if you play well and the South is short on opportunities to make millions other ways. There is tons of motivation for kids to start getting involved in football at an early age. It's the same argument I use for why you get such great basketball players from urban centers. The kids have the same motivations, like the ones I've mentioned, but you can not fit a huge football field in an inner city.

Anyway, it's this reason why I felt the articles author gave really bad examples. For example, Knowshon Moreno, violates what many consider 'SEC Speed' because he is from New Jersey. He is not considered a 'speed back' either. He is nimble and makes quick cuts, but he is not a speed back. A speed back is more like Jeffrey Demps for Florida. And Darrius Heyward-Bey IS considered to be from a region that produces 'SEC Speed'. So the argument is almost completely backwards. SEC apologists would say that Knowshon Moreno should not expect to be fast because he's from NJ and Heyward-Bey should expect that because he's from Maryland.

To illustrate this in another way, Florida State and Miami are considered by people in the SEC to have 'SEC Speed' because they recruit from the same area, though they are currently in the ACC (and Miami use to be in the Big East). Like I said, it's probably a poor choice of words, but it refers to a region.

And he cited NFL Combine numbers without actually researching it more. Had he done so, outside of a few anecdotal cases, he would have found the exact opposite of what he was trying to prove. For example, 'SEC Speed' dominated the numbers in the combine. The Southeastern United States accounted for 35% of the football players who ran 40-yard-dashes at the combine (not everyone did). If you separated regions into Southeastern, Midwestern, Northern & Western, the SE did disproportionally well. Of all regions, the SE had the most Top-10 sprinters at Running Back (tied w/ Midwest), Wide Receiver, Tight Ends, Defensive Tackle, Defensive Ends, Inside Linebackers, Outside Linebackers, Cornerbacks and Safties. They came in second at Offensive Guards and Offensive Tackles and third in Offensive Centers. They had the fastest player at their respective position at RB, WR, TE, OC, DE, OLB, ILB, CB & Safety.

If you took all times from players from the SE, averaged them, and compared those numbers to players outside the SE, they were faster (again) then the average of Non-SE participants at WR, TE, DT, DE, ILB, OLB, CB, S. The thing you have to remember is that all these players were INVITED to the NFL Combine for being Physical Freaks of Nature. These are the best-of-the-best and the fastest-of-the-fastest, yet we still notice a difference at some positions in particular. Imagine the disparity you would find with the every-day athletes. It kind of does suggest that SE Speed really is not a myth. Here are the actual numbers. (The only place the SE really strugged with was the offensive line):

Runningbacks

In Top-10: THREE (#1, #4, #9; tied-1st w/Midwest)
Total Southeastern: 8, Total Non-Southeastern: 15

Southeastern RB Speed Mean (Average): 4.60125
Southeastern RB Speed Standard deviation: 0.09047

Non-Southeastern RB Speed Mean (Average): 4.57533
Non-Southeastern RB Speed Standard deviation: 0.06457

Wide Receivers

In Top-10: SEVEN (#1, #2, #4, #7, #8, #9, #10; 1st)
Total Southeastern: 14, Total Non-Southeastern: 22

Southeastern WR Speed Mean (Average): 4.44857
Southeastern WR Speed Standard deviation: 0.08008

Non-Southeastern WR Speed Mean (Average): 4.51636
Non-Southeastern WR Speed Standard deviation: 0.08039

Tight Ends

In Top-10: SIX (#1, #2, #4, #5, #6, #10; 1st)
Total Southeastern: 7, Total Non-Southeastern: 9

Southeastern TE Speed Mean (Average): 4.67857
Southeastern TE Speed Standard deviation: 0.10976

Non-Southeastern TE Speed Mean (Average): 4.80556
Non-Southeastern TE Speed Standard deviation: 0.08589

Offensive Guards

In Top-10: ALL FOUR (#2, #4, #7, #10; 2nd, North w/5)
Total Southeastern: 4, Total Non-Southeastern: 7

Southeastern OG Speed Mean (Average): 5.36
Southeastern OG Speed Standard deviation: 0.13115

Non-Southeastern OG Speed Mean (Average): 5.21571
Non-Southeastern OG Speed Standard deviation: 0.30501

Offensive Tackles

In Top-10: TWO (#2, #6; 2nd, North w/7)
Total Southeastern: 12, Total Non-Southeastern: 14

Southeastern OT Speed Mean (Average): 5.33833
Southeastern OT Speed Standard deviation: 0.15885

Non-Southeastern OT Speed Mean (Average): 5.20071
Non-Southeastern OT Speed Standard deviation: 0.15564

Offensive Centers

In Top-10: ALL TWO (#1, #8; 3rd, West w/4, North w/3)
Total Southeastern:2 , Total Non-Southeastern: 7

Southeastern OC Speed Mean (Average): 5.285
Southeastern OC Speed Standard deviation: 0.20506

Non-Southeastern OC Speed Mean (Average): 5.26429
Non-Southeastern OC Speed Standard deviation: 0.11886

Defensive Tackles

In Top-10: FIVE (#3, #5, #7, #8, #10; 1st)
Total Southeastern: 9, Total Non-Southeastern: 11

Southeastern DT Speed Mean (Average): 5.07444
Southeastern DT Speed Standard deviation: 0.12208

Non-Southeastern DT Speed Mean (Average): 5.08545
Non-Southeastern DT Speed Standard deviation: 0.16723

Defensive Ends

In Top-10: FOUR (#1, #4, #5, #8; 1st)
Total Southeastern: 11, Total Non-Southeastern: 17

Southeastern DE Speed Mean (Average): 4.84727
Southeastern DE Speed Standard deviation: 0.1014

Non-Southeastern DE Speed Mean (Average): 4.89588
Non-Southeastern DE Speed Standard deviation: 0.10955

Outside Linebackers

In Top-10: ALL FIVE (#1, #5, #7, #8, #9; 1st)
Total Southeastern: 5, Total Non-Southeastern: 6

Southeastern OLB Speed Mean (Average): 4.75
Southeastern OLB Speed Standard deviation: 0.08

Non-Southeastern OLB Speed Mean (Average): 4.78667
Non-Southeastern OLB Speed Standard deviation: 0.09331

Inside Linebackers

In Top-10: ALL FOUR (#1, #2, #4, #5; 1st)
Total Southeastern: 4, Total Non-Southeastern: 7

Southeastern ILB Speed Mean (Average): 4.665
Southeastern ILB Speed Standard deviation: 0.09678

Non-Southeastern ILB Speed Mean (Average): 4.81571
Non-Southeastern ILB Speed Standard deviation: 0.08942

Cornerbacks

In Top-10: SIX (#1, #2, #4, #6, #8; 1st)
Total Southeastern: 19, Total Non-Southeastern: 16

Southeastern CB Speed Mean (Average): 4.55
Southeastern CB Speed Standard deviation: 0.04749

Non-Southeastern CB Speed Mean (Average): 4.57
Non-Southeastern CB Speed Standard deviation: 0.07589

Safties

In Top-10: FIVE (#1, #3, #4, #5, #7; 1st)
Total Southeastern: 10, Total Non-Southeastern: 9

Southeastern S Speed Mean (Average): 4.563
Southeastern S Speed Standard deviation: 0.09878

Non-Southeastern S Speed Mean (Average): 4.59444
Non-Southeastern S Speed Standard deviation: 0.10887

Also, if the article is about SPEED and why it's a MYTH, then why is most of the article covering things not related to speed and general footbal acumen?

[jkm, the stolen pifwafwi]

Well, losing Murray had a lot to do with it. Without him our identity in the running game shifted, and we couldn't be NEARLY as multiple as we needed to be.

the only thing that murray would have brought to the table was better pass blocking. power and speed were never going to do anything against their linebackers. brown had so much success because he is elusive. how he is elusive is a mystery to me, but the results state he is.


I think our loss to UF in the MNC game was due to the great job their secondary did...more than speed i saw killer instinct attitude, simple as that.

florida shut down our passing game by being physical with our receivers. they set the tone on the first play of the game, blasting manny on that fly route while the ball was in the air. they were more than willing to take the penalty to get him off his game (iglesias would do that on his own since it was a big game), yet there was no call on obvious PI. from that point on, they just hand checked, chucked, pushed, pulled, whatever in man to man with no fear of reprisal. humorously, the same crap that happened to us against LSU and USC.

so here is your issue

man to man - huge advantage in bowl games because we can't have big 12 refs

zone - huge advantage during the regular season in the big 12

its why texas has been doing better than us in bowl games lately. however, the zone is why we do better than texas during the regular season (all the big 12 championships).

[Collier11]

It's practically impossible to 'resolve' these types of conference debates without understanding the terminologies. The author of the article (dishingoutdimes) does a poor job at representing what SEC folks mean when they say 'SEC Speed'. Admittedly, it's a poor choice of words. Proponents are not talking about a particular conference (SEC), but rather, a geographical region that is loosely defined by the boundaries associated with a single conference (SEC). Of course, there are other conferences that share this region (ACC, Big East, Conference USA), but all of them either range well outside of the Southeastern United States or do a bad job of representing the entire region, which is why they say 'SEC Speed' and not 'ACC Speed'. Schools in the SEC do not have a better strength-and-conditioning program. They do not teach better speed drills. You do not knock a tenth-of-a-second off your 40-time by wearing a particular SEC jersey.

If you question an SEC fan long enough, they'll eventually concede that they are talking about a high school recruiting region. It spans about 12 states; Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia. These states are the primary recruting grounds for schools in the SEC. It's basically a cultural and geographical region that shares many common characteristics. One of these is their obsessive preoccupation with the game of football.

It's popular for much of the same reasons soccer is popular in developing nations: all you need is a ball, a field, your friends and not a lot of money (most of the people living here are poor). The South is mostly rural, so you have almost unlimited space for fields. The South is also warm and sunny, with mild winters, so you can play it year round. It also has a guaranteed way to make millions if you play well and the South is short on opportunities to make millions other ways. There is tons of motivation for kids to start getting involved in football at an early age. It's the same argument I use for why you get such great basketball players from urban centers. The kids have the same motivations, like the ones I've mentioned, but you can not fit a huge football field in an inner city.

Anyway, it's this reason why I felt the articles author gave really bad examples. For example, Knowshon Moreno, violates what many consider 'SEC Speed' because he is from New Jersey. He is not considered a 'speed back' either. He is nimble and makes quick cuts, but he is not a speed back. A speed back is more like Jeffrey Demps for Florida. And Darrius Heyward-Bey IS considered to be from a region that produces 'SEC Speed'. So the argument is almost completely backwards. SEC apologists would say that Knowshon Moreno should not expect to be fast because he's from NJ and Heyward-Bey should expect that because he's from Maryland.

To illustrate this in another way, Florida State and Miami are considered by people in the SEC to have 'SEC Speed' because they recruit from the same area, though they are currently in the ACC (and Miami use to be in the Big East). Like I said, it's probably a poor choice of words, but it refers to a region.

And he cited NFL Combine numbers without actually researching it more. Had he done so, outside of a few anecdotal cases, he would have found the exact opposite of what he was trying to prove. For example, 'SEC Speed' dominated the numbers in the combine. The Southeastern United States accounted for 35% of the football players who ran 40-yard-dashes at the combine (not everyone did). If you separated regions into Southeastern, Midwestern, Northern & Western, the SE did disproportionally well. Of all regions, the SE had the most Top-10 sprinters at Running Back (tied w/ Midwest), Wide Receiver, Tight Ends, Defensive Tackle, Defensive Ends, Inside Linebackers, Outside Linebackers, Cornerbacks and Safties. They came in second at Offensive Guards and Offensive Tackles and third in Offensive Centers. They had the fastest player at their respective position at RB, WR, TE, OC, DE, OLB, ILB, CB & Safety.

If you took all times from players from the SE, averaged them, and compared those numbers to players outside the SE, they were faster (again) then the average of Non-SE participants at WR, TE, DT, DE, ILB, OLB, CB, S. The thing you have to remember is that all these players were INVITED to the NFL Combine for being Physical Freaks of Nature. These are the best-of-the-best and the fastest-of-the-fastest, yet we still notice a difference at some positions in particular. Imagine the disparity you would find with the every-day athletes. It kind of does suggest that SE Speed really is not a myth. Here are the actual numbers. (The only place the SE really strugged with was the offensive line):

Runningbacks

In Top-10: THREE (#1, #4, #9; tied-1st w/Midwest)
Total Southeastern: 8, Total Non-Southeastern: 15

Southeastern RB Speed Mean (Average): 4.60125
Southeastern RB Speed Standard deviation: 0.09047

Non-Southeastern RB Speed Mean (Average): 4.57533
Non-Southeastern RB Speed Standard deviation: 0.06457

Wide Receivers

In Top-10: SEVEN (#1, #2, #4, #7, #8, #9, #10; 1st)
Total Southeastern: 14, Total Non-Southeastern: 22

Southeastern WR Speed Mean (Average): 4.44857
Southeastern WR Speed Standard deviation: 0.08008

Non-Southeastern WR Speed Mean (Average): 4.51636
Non-Southeastern WR Speed Standard deviation: 0.08039

Tight Ends

In Top-10: SIX (#1, #2, #4, #5, #6, #10; 1st)
Total Southeastern: 7, Total Non-Southeastern: 9

Southeastern TE Speed Mean (Average): 4.67857
Southeastern TE Speed Standard deviation: 0.10976

Non-Southeastern TE Speed Mean (Average): 4.80556
Non-Southeastern TE Speed Standard deviation: 0.08589

Offensive Guards

In Top-10: ALL FOUR (#2, #4, #7, #10; 2nd, North w/5)
Total Southeastern: 4, Total Non-Southeastern: 7

Southeastern OG Speed Mean (Average): 5.36
Southeastern OG Speed Standard deviation: 0.13115

Non-Southeastern OG Speed Mean (Average): 5.21571
Non-Southeastern OG Speed Standard deviation: 0.30501

Offensive Tackles

In Top-10: TWO (#2, #6; 2nd, North w/7)
Total Southeastern: 12, Total Non-Southeastern: 14

Southeastern OT Speed Mean (Average): 5.33833
Southeastern OT Speed Standard deviation: 0.15885

Non-Southeastern OT Speed Mean (Average): 5.20071
Non-Southeastern OT Speed Standard deviation: 0.15564

Offensive Centers

In Top-10: ALL TWO (#1, #8; 3rd, West w/4, North w/3)
Total Southeastern:2 , Total Non-Southeastern: 7

Southeastern OC Speed Mean (Average): 5.285
Southeastern OC Speed Standard deviation: 0.20506

Non-Southeastern OC Speed Mean (Average): 5.26429
Non-Southeastern OC Speed Standard deviation: 0.11886

Defensive Tackles

In Top-10: FIVE (#3, #5, #7, #8, #10; 1st)
Total Southeastern: 9, Total Non-Southeastern: 11

Southeastern DT Speed Mean (Average): 5.07444
Southeastern DT Speed Standard deviation: 0.12208

Non-Southeastern DT Speed Mean (Average): 5.08545
Non-Southeastern DT Speed Standard deviation: 0.16723

Defensive Ends

In Top-10: FOUR (#1, #4, #5, #8; 1st)
Total Southeastern: 11, Total Non-Southeastern: 17

Southeastern DE Speed Mean (Average): 4.84727
Southeastern DE Speed Standard deviation: 0.1014

Non-Southeastern DE Speed Mean (Average): 4.89588
Non-Southeastern DE Speed Standard deviation: 0.10955

Outside Linebackers

In Top-10: ALL FIVE (#1, #5, #7, #8, #9; 1st)
Total Southeastern: 5, Total Non-Southeastern: 6

Southeastern OLB Speed Mean (Average): 4.75
Southeastern OLB Speed Standard deviation: 0.08

Non-Southeastern OLB Speed Mean (Average): 4.78667
Non-Southeastern OLB Speed Standard deviation: 0.09331

Inside Linebackers

In Top-10: ALL FOUR (#1, #2, #4, #5; 1st)
Total Southeastern: 4, Total Non-Southeastern: 7

Southeastern ILB Speed Mean (Average): 4.665
Southeastern ILB Speed Standard deviation: 0.09678

Non-Southeastern ILB Speed Mean (Average): 4.81571
Non-Southeastern ILB Speed Standard deviation: 0.08942

Cornerbacks

In Top-10: SIX (#1, #2, #4, #6, #8; 1st)
Total Southeastern: 19, Total Non-Southeastern: 16

Southeastern CB Speed Mean (Average): 4.55
Southeastern CB Speed Standard deviation: 0.04749

Non-Southeastern CB Speed Mean (Average): 4.57
Non-Southeastern CB Speed Standard deviation: 0.07589

Safties

In Top-10: FIVE (#1, #3, #4, #5, #7; 1st)
Total Southeastern: 10, Total Non-Southeastern: 9

Southeastern S Speed Mean (Average): 4.563
Southeastern S Speed Standard deviation: 0.09878

Non-Southeastern S Speed Mean (Average): 4.59444
Non-Southeastern S Speed Standard deviation: 0.10887

Also, if the article is about SPEED and why it's a MYTH, then why is most of the article covering things not related to speed and general footbal acumen?

you did far too much homework for this silly little argument, I dont think I was even able to read it all because after 4 paragraphs my reading comprehension typically shuts off

[RedstickSooner]

If we'd like to look at regional differences in athlete, I'd like to throw one more option out there: Climate itself.

The southeast isn't just warm -- for much of the year, it's absolutely oppressive. I submit that compared to, say, the Northeast (where most Big-10 players come from) you're a lot more likely to see your beefier kids (who would end up being slower but stronger players) opt for a sedentary life in the air conditioning. The rangier, leaner kids (who would end up being your faster but weaker players) would end up being the ones more likely to enjoy being outdoors.

Conversely, in the cooler climes, the opposite should hold true -- those skinny kids will be shivering like chiuahuas, and more likely to just drop sports, or play things you can play indoors like basketball.

I don't think this explanation would be at the root of all regional differences in athleticism -- but I think it could, at the very least, contribute something to explaining those differences.