Crazy People With Guns Kill People

[jdsooner]

The week started with a terrilbe tragedy on Sunday. An Illinois pastor was killed during his sermon by a nut with a 45 caliber handgun. Terry Sedlacek had designated Sunday as "death day" in his planner.

Michael McClendon arms himself with two rifles, a shotgun, and a 38 caliber handgun and kills 10 people and four dogs before committing suicide. He fired more than 200 rounds in the shooting spree, taking out his own family and others as well. Included in the dead were a local police officer's wife and her 18-month-old daughter.

A German teenager takes a handgun from his father's legally registered gun collection and goes on a shooting rampage, beginning in his former school. He manages to kill 15 before killing himself. Among the dead are nine students, eight of them female. He also killed three women teachers.

So, we aren't safe at church, at home, at work, or at school. Today I saw a bumper sticker that proudly proclaimed: "God, Guts and Guns made America great!" I suggest a new bumper sticker: "Crazy People With Guns Kill People."

[Crucifax Autumn]

Crazy people without guns kill people too...and non crazy people with guns kill people too....

Wow...I feel like some kinda philosopher!

[olevetonahill]

Oh Boy here we go again :rolleyes:

[KABOOKIE]

Where were the cops? Probably out giving speeding tickets.

Why didn't these people have their own gun to defend themselves? Probably because they feared they would be breaking some law for carrying a hand gun.

[Frozen Sooner]

Speaks more to the need for better mental health care and not more gun controls.

[texas bandman]

And the people who know the shooter call him a quiet, easy-going A student....hmm...sounds like me, you guys better not give me shiat! :D

[texas bandman]

Now on topic...he had a Bushmaster AR-15-style assault rifle and an SKS assault rifle which are military-bred firearms developed for the specific purpose of killing human beings quickly and efficiently. Give me reasons for owning such a weapon? I don't problem with shotguns and hunting rifles and even pistols if it makes you feel safe in your home, but I don't know about assault rifles.

[StoopTroup]

The first place we should ban assault rifles is in video games. The carnage I've seen there is horrible. Video characters are even re-spawned and killed over and over again. It's sickening. We need a law so that the torture of our beloved game characters is stopped.

[Jerk]

Give me reasons for owning such a weapon?

To shoot liberals?

[Frozen Sooner]

Like I was saying, folks. Better mental health care is the answer, not restrictions on guns.

[Jerk]

Like I was saying, folks. Better mental health care is the answer, not restrictions on guns.

Hey I was only kidding. I forgot to add the smiley.

[Frozen Sooner]

S'ok. I don't think you ACTUALLY think that it's OK to go out and shoot liberals. You probably don't actually need to be committed. All in good fun.

[Jerk]

S'ok. I don't think you ACTUALLY think that it's OK to go out and shoot liberals. You probably don't actually need to be committed. All in good fun.

You're right, I don't think it's ok. I'm just a little perturbed about the knee-jerk reaction of BAN THEM! before the bodies even cool down. Then the icing on the cake is being asked to justify why I own these evil heat-seaking baby killing machines.

[Frozen Sooner]

Dude, I'm a liberal and I'm relatively sure I've never advocated for more restrictive gun controls.

Though for what it's worth, it's interesting that the Supremes have not yet ruled on whether the 2nd Amendment applies to the states or not. They've had the opportunity to do so, they just haven't. Haven't ruled that it doesn't, either.

[Jerk]

Dude, I'm a liberal and I'm relatively sure I've never advocated for more restrictive gun controls.

Though for what it's worth, it's interesting that the Supremes have not yet ruled on whether the 2nd Amendment applies to the states or not. They've had the opportunity to do so, they just haven't. Haven't ruled that it doesn't, either.

I understand.


Also, can't one of the lower federal courts rule on incorporation? Or does it have to be the Supremes?

[Frozen Sooner]

For it to apply to the entire country, it would need to be the Supremes. Like the 11th Circuit could certainly rule that way, but it would only apply to the 11th Circuit's jurisdiction.

[MR2-Sooner86]

Now on topic...he had a Bushmaster AR-15-style assault rifle and an SKS assault rifle which are military-bred firearms developed for the specific purpose of killing human beings quickly and efficiently. Give me reasons for owning such a weapon?

They're fun to shoot? Collecting? Believe it or not maybe hunting? I mean if those guns kill quickly and efficiently against people then they'd do fine against a deer wouldn't ya think? For instance a .308 is great for snipers but also is a great round if you do sharp shooting.


I don't problem with shotguns and hunting rifles and even pistols if it makes you feel safe in your home, but I don't know about assault rifles.

So hunting rifles are ok even though they...well they kill. I mean if a hunting rifle can put down a several hundred pound deer an average sized person shouldn't be too hard. Right? Lets not forget handguns can be military and "made to kill" as well. Right? Isn't the military using 9mm right now? Lets not forget for WW2 the .45 was used, although not anymore, and is now today popular with big game hunters.

Also, if you're still "scared" about assault rifles, it's fact that around 95% of all murders commited with a firearm are done with common everyday .22, shotguns, etc. but most are done with handguns. Deaths caused by assault rifles are around 1%.

[jdsooner]

I am against assault rifles. It's pretty hard to go up against a guy with an assault rifle, even if you are carrying a pistol.

That said, the one point you guys have missed is that the gun used to kill the most people was registered. It was used by the German kid.

The heroes are the German female teacher who stood in front of a student and took a bullet and the church members who tackled the shooter in Tennessee. I love it that that guy is in custody and didn't get to off himself.

[Okla-homey]

Its practically impossible to defend against a homicidal, suicidal maniac. FWIW, that's also why the jihaadi scum are so effective.

In our church, there are a handful of active and retired police officers, who are also church members, in civilian clothes, armed, and strategically situated around the auditorium during Sunday services.

And that's not even counting the number of folks with concealed carry permits present in each service.

I'm not saying it couldn't happen here in Tulsa, but I doubt the perp would have gotten off the killshot after his first shot missed.

[Jerk]

I am against assault rifles. It's pretty hard to go up against a guy with an assault rifle, even if you are carrying a pistol.

That said, the one point you guys have missed is that the gun used to kill the most people was registered. It was used by the German kid.

The heroes are the German female teacher who stood in front of a student and took a bullet and the church members who tackled the shooter in Tennessee. I love it that that guy is in custody and didn't get to off himself.


Assault rifles have been heavily regulated since 1986. You must have a class III license, pay a $200 tax, and spend thousands on one of the half-a-million or so full autos still left in circulation. Anything made after 1986 can not be legally owned.

ps- the true definition of 'assault weapon' is a select-fire capable weapon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle




It must be an individual weapon with provision to fire from the shoulder (i.e. a buttstock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_%28firearm%29));
It must be capable of selective fire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_fire);
It must have an intermediate-power cartridge: more power than a pistol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pistol) but less than a standard rifle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifle) or battle rifle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_rifle);
Its ammunition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammunition) must be supplied from a detachable box magazine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magazine_%28firearms%29#Magazine_types).

[BudSooner]

Now that the thread title in my post states the truth...y'all can quitcherbitchin.

[LosAngelesSooner]

I want to know where you found a "several hundred pound deer."

[BudSooner]

I want to know where you found a "several hundred pound deer."
"The Incredible Deer?"

"Deerzilla?"

"The Mighty Deer?"

Where is Jon Favreau for this flick? :D


"**** you IronMan, i'm about to rip your balls off with one of my gigantic antlers!!!"

[Jerk]

Forget the deer for a minute.

There are wild hogs in Oklahoma and they tear the crap out of farmland. They are not an indigenous species and they are a nuisance animal, so much so that the Dept. of Wildlife has no season and no bag limit on them.

The free bacon is tempting, but you better take some firepower because they get 800lbs (the smaller ones are better to eat, though)

If I ever go I'm taking a .308 semi auto with something else as a back-up weapon.

[olevetonahill]

I want to know where you found a "several hundred pound deer."

Here ya Go LAS . Ya hunt em with Rocket Launchers and Hand grenades :P
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mule_Deer

[Boomer Mooner]

I want to know where you found a "several hundred pound deer."

Moose and elk are in the deer family, weigh several hundred pounds and regularly killed with firearms. You will have to look up all the places you can find them on your own as there are many.

[C&CDean]

I want to know where you found a "several hundred pound deer."

At the gun show that sells hand grenades and bazookas and ****.

[Okla-homey]

For the record, IMHO, short of weapons of mass destruction (i.e. chem/nuke/biological), law-abiding*, sane American citizens should be able to purchase and keep any firearm. Including fully automatic varieties, and crew served artillery. Period.

*people without a record of violent criminal convictions.

[My Opinion Matters]

It's a crazy person's constiutional right to massacre innocent people with an absurdly overpowered assault weapon that would never have a practical application in any hunting situation.

Do you oppose the Constitution?

[olevetonahill]

It's a crazy person's constiutional right to massacre innocent people with an absurdly overpowered assault weapon that would never have a practical application in any hunting situation.

Do you oppose the Constitution?

Ya know Its Idiots like you that skeer me .
You are nothing More than an extremest , Be It about Guns , politics or religion, An extremest is bad news.

[My Opinion Matters]

Ya know Its Idiots like you that skeer me .
You are nothing More than an extremest , Be It about Guns , politics or religion, An extremest is bad news.

I'm an extremist for not opposing the Constitution? :confused:

[olevetonahill]

I'm an extremist for not opposing the Constitution? :confused:

Whatever :rolleyes:

[C&CDean]

It's a crazy person's constiutional right to massacre innocent people with an absurdly overpowered assault weapon that would never have a practical application in any hunting situation.

Do you oppose the Constitution?

You're as silly as somebody who says "they oughta ban overpowered 180 mph cars cause there's no practical application.."

I've shot lots of animals with my "assault rifles." Cans too.

[achiro]

It's a crazy person's constiutional right to massacre innocent people with an absurdly overpowered assault weapon that would never have a practical application in any hunting situation.

Do you oppose the Constitution?
'Yet another prime example of the ignorance of guns. Serious question here, What exactly about an assault weapon makes it overpowered compared to one you would allow as legal?

[My Opinion Matters]

I think I was misunderstood. Don't intepret my stance as gun control, anti-gun, gay-lovin hippie pacifist, or whatever you want to label it. I don't have a stance on the issue. I don't want to sound cold and detached and say it's not really an issue I care about...but it's not really an issue care about.

I don't own guns. It's a personal choice. If you want to own guns, that's fine, it's your choice. Let's just be honest about it. No one buys a fully automatic assault rifle with armor-piercing shells to hunt deer with. Or to prevent the King of England from barging into their house and ordering them around. People own them because that's how they get their rocks off. Or because they feel like it makes their pecker a couple of inches longer.

It's too complicated an issue to resolve by tossing around shallow partisan rhetoric. Especially when those that are most passionate about the issue can't even be honest about it.

As for me, I'll just stick with watching internet nerds debating over the correct proportions of Dr. Manhattan's floppy drive.

[achiro]

Let's just be honest about it. No one buys a fully automatic assault rifle with armor-piercing shells to hunt deer with. Or to prevent the King of England from barging into their house and ordering them around. People own them because that's how they get their rocks off. Or because they feel like it makes their pecker a couple of inches longer.

and herein lies the problem. There are already plenty of laws that prevent the average citizen from owning the gun you just described. The definition of "assault weapon" is much bigger than that though. Some descriptions would include a SEMI-automatic rifle or shotgun which would include some of the most common hunting weapons made. One of the recent definitions includes guns with a pistol grip. The problem with that is that many shotguns made for turkey hunting include a pistol grip(and I will tell you that it really helps with shot steadiness and comfort) http://hyattgunstore.x-shops.com/images/P/sbe2TurkeyPGApg12Ga%20300.jpg
What about a clip? I like a clip on my deer rifle because it makes transport easier and safer but according to many definitions it would be illegal under an assault weapons ban.
As far as power, many of the so called assault weapons are fairly small calibers and the average deer caliber has much better ballistics, accuracy, and killing power.

THis is my point. People who know nothing about guns want to regulate them based on feel good soundbytes and retoric and many average hunting guns will be affected based on their loose definitions.

[olevetonahill]

I think I was misunderstood. Don't intepret my stance as gun control, anti-gun, gay-lovin hippie pacifist, or whatever you want to label it. I don't have a stance on the issue. I don't want to sound cold and detached and say it's not really an issue I care about...but it's not really an issue care about.

I don't own guns. It's a personal choice. If you want to own guns, that's fine, it's your choice. Let's just be honest about it. No one buys a fully automatic assault rifle with armor-piercing shells to hunt deer with. Or to prevent the King of England from barging into their house and ordering them around. People own them because that's how they get their rocks off. Or because they feel like it makes their pecker a couple of inches longer.

It's too complicated an issue to resolve by tossing around shallow partisan rhetoric. Especially when those that are most passionate about the issue can't even be honest about it.

As for me, I'll just stick with watching internet nerds debating over the correct proportions of Dr. Manhattan's floppy drive.

Your Ignorance wasnt Misunderstood :rolleyes:

[My Opinion Matters]

Your Ignorance wasnt Misunderstood :rolleyes:

I'll certainly be more careful not to cross anyone with their very own internet posse. :rolleyes:

[Jerk]

... they feel like it makes their pecker a couple of inches longer.


I wouldn't have to own a rifle if I could kill something at 300 yards with my d.ck.

And the second amendment has nothing to do with hunting.

[LosAngelesSooner]

Forget the deer for a minute.

There are wild hogs in Oklahoma and they tear the crap out of farmland. They are not an indigenous species and they are a nuisance animal, so much so that the Dept. of Wildlife has no season and no bag limit on them.

The free bacon is tempting, but you better take some firepower because they get 800lbs (the smaller ones are better to eat, though)

If I ever go I'm taking a .308 semi auto with something else as a back-up weapon.I LOVE a pig hunt. I went on a wild boar hunt with my dad and got one (around 400lbs) near the Cookson Game Refuge. Shot him with a Ruger .44 cal Super Blackhawk pistol as he charged. Had my dad on backup gun with a 30.6, but didn't need him. Got the bugger with the first shot. ;)


Here ya Go LAS . Ya hunt em with Rocket Launchers and Hand grenades :P
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mule_DeerI know about Mule Deer. We've got them and Black Tail out here in Cali. But you guys don't have 'em in OK, do you? Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought most (or all) of yours were White Tail.


Moose and elk are in the deer family, weigh several hundred pounds and regularly killed with firearms. You will have to look up all the places you can find them on your own as there are many.Yes, yes. Moose and Elk. I know. My brother actually got an Elk once in OK with 25.6. But I was talking about a "several hundred pound deer" in Oklahoma. THAT I'd like to see! (and find out where, so I can go's a huntin') :D


I've shot lots of animals with my "assault rifles." Cans too."Several hundred pound cans?" ;)

[yermom]

Dean hates cans

[LosAngelesSooner]

http://www.troesters.com/images/SteveHatesCans.jpg

[olevetonahill]

Hey Las where did he say anything about Only Deer in Oklahoma ?

QUOTE=LosAngelesSooner;2590512]

I know about Mule Deer. We've got them and Black Tail out here in Cali. But you guys don't have 'em in OK, do you? Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought most (or all) of yours were White Tail.

Yes, yes. Moose and Elk. I know. My brother actually got an Elk once in OK with 25.6. But I was talking about a "several hundred pound deer" in Oklahoma. THAT I'd like to see! (and find out where, so I can go's a huntin') :D

"Several hundred pound cans?" ;)[/QUOTE]


hunting rifles are ok even though they...well they kill. I mean if a hunting rifle can put down a several hundred pound deer an average sized person shouldn't be too hard. Right? Lets not forget handguns can be military and "made to kill" as well. Right? Isn't the military using 9mm right now? Lets not forget for WW2 the .45 was used, although not anymore, and is now today popular with big game hunters..

[Jerk]

Tightening gun controls is pointless
After the Winnenden killings we must reassess our attitude to firearms

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article5897827.ece


Richard Munday

The horror of the school shooting in Winnenden will be followed by calls for Germany's already restrictive gun laws to be tightened. But the hope that this will work is misplaced.

After the Erfurt school shooting in 2002, guns controls were supposedly strengthened and before that, in 1972, Germany introduced draconian gun laws to combat Baader-Meinhof terrorism. In the first three years after the legislation was passed, German military and police armouries “lost” 34 machine guns, 198 sub-machineguns, 363 automatic rifles and 1,142 pistols: with such firepower available from the organs of the State itself, the Federal Republic did not have enough terrorists to go round. As we in Britain now know, having seen the doubling of handgun crime within five years of our total ban on pistols, “gun control” is a perverse concept.

If the Germans are serious about stopping killers running amok in schools, they might consider the Israeli solution of arming teachers. It works there, as it has on occasion in America - the massacre in the “gun-free zone” of Virginia Tech can be contrasted with the assault by a former pupil on the neighbouring Appalachian Law School in 2002 that was halted by two armed students.

Neither we nor the Germans, of course, would be willing to adopt such a policy. We are more appalled now by the idea of an armed society. Yet an international study published in the Harvard Journal on Law & Public Policy in 2007 found that European nations with high gun ownership levels, such as Switzerland, Norway and Austria, had significantly lower murder rates than European countries with low levels of legal firearms possession.

In Britain we have come a long way from our forebears who believed that guns were a great deterrence: from the days of the Rev Brontë (father of the sisters), who used to fasten his watch and pocket his pistol every morning; or the Yorkshire hotel guests once encountered by Beatrix Potter, all but one of whom were routinely carrying revolvers.

But though we might wish guns had never been invented, our abhorrence of them comes at a price. “Gun controls” disarm only those willing to be disarmed; and the disarmed are then defenceless in the face of predators - criminals, killers, terrorists like the gunmen who shot 200 people dead in Mumbai or, worst of all, predatory states. The disarmament of the Jews from 1933 was the most effective example of gun control in Germany. “The most foolish mistake,” Hitler once remarked, “would be to allow the subject races to possess arms.”

Richard Munday is co-author of Guns & Violence: the Debate Before Lord Cullen

[LosAngelesSooner]

Hey Las where did he say anything about Only Deer in Oklahoma ?

QUOTE=LosAngelesSooner;2590512]

I know about Mule Deer. We've got them and Black Tail out here in Cali. But you guys don't have 'em in OK, do you? Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought most (or all) of yours were White Tail.

Yes, yes. Moose and Elk. I know. My brother actually got an Elk once in OK with 25.6. But I was talking about a "several hundred pound deer" in Oklahoma. THAT I'd like to see! (and find out where, so I can go's a huntin') :D

"Several hundred pound cans?" ;)I'm not debating gun control, I'm trying to find where Deerzilla is hiding out in OK. Keep up.

Oh, and you fail at teh Intranets re: quoting. ;)

[olevetonahill]

I'm not debating gun control, I'm trying to find where Deerzilla is hiding out in OK. Keep up.

Oh, and you fail at teh Intranets re: quoting. ;)

No **** Dick Tracy , what was yer 1st clue ?

Now where did he say that Big assed old deer, was just in Oklahoma ?:P

[Crucifax Autumn]

Well obviously it's not just in Oklahoma...it's too big to fit so its *** is hanging over the border in texas.

[MR2-Sooner86]

It's a crazy person's constiutional right to massacre innocent people with an absurdly overpowered assault weapon that would never have a practical application in any hunting situation.

Do you oppose the Constitution?

I probably shouldn't but I'll bite. Here I'll send a little literature your way and the rest of the board can enjoy reading it as well.

Homicide Data
2005
Handguns: 7,543
Rifles: 442
Shotguns: 517
Other guns: 137
Firearms, type not stated: 1,461
Knives: 1,914
Blunt Objects: 597
Personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc.): 892 (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_07.html)

While handguns are banned for citizens in Washington, D.C., congressmen are allowed to have a gun for self-protection on the Capitol grounds. Well-known liberal politicians such as Senators Chuck Schumer and Ted Kennedy have armed bodyguards. The wives of politicians, such as Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle's wife, Linda, also have bodyguards. (http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/lott200409290839.asp)

Britian and its gun ban (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article2409817.ece)

Crime Plunges in Pro-gun Town (http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/3/27/223955.shtml)

Britain, Australia top U.S.
in violent crime (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=21902)

Crime up Down Under
Since Australia's gun ban, armed robberies increase 45% (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15304)

Gun laws fall short in war on crime (http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/gun-laws-fall-short-in-war-on-crime/2005/10/28/1130400366681.html)

Crazy people kill people. Not guns. (http://www.times.co.nz/cms/news/2007/09/art100017779.php)

[jdsooner]

Here we go again:


CARTHAGE, N.C. – A gunman barged into a North Carolina nursing home Sunday morning and started "shooting everything," going room to room in a terrifying rampage that killed seven residents — most in their late 80s — and a nurse who cared for them.

Authorities said Robert Stewart also wounded three others, including the Carthage police officer who confronted him in a hallway of Pinelake Health and Rehab and stopped the brutal attack. Officials said the massacre could have been bloodier if the officer had not managed to subdue Stewart.

[yermom]

and i thought I hated old people

[SouthFortySooner]

I am thinking about what I am going to do after work today. I have it carefully planned out. When you can tell me what it is I'll let you have my guns. :rolleyes: